get? >> well, first of all, that's in terms of what he's going to try to do in terms of efficiency. what i've been talking about is we need to to understand that prior to the pandemic we spent $4.4 trillion. for the last five years, we've averaged $6.5. we need to return to pre-pandemic baseline. if we do that, we'll save $10 trillion plus. that's what i'm working on. brian: i like that number, senator ron johnson. appreciate it. >> have a great day. jackie: we're going to the take a look at where we stand on these markets. two hours to go til the closing bell. the dow's regaining a little bit. we're not as deep in the red as we were earlier in the session, 457 points. but an s&p 500 and nasdaq that are down almost 1% each. so you've got profit taking today, strong jobs report, may not get the rate cuts, investors are a little weary. brian: i'll tell you who can help aer weary investor, that's charles payne. he's coming up. charles: b-t-d, buy the dip. [laughter] brian: buy the dip spree, all

right. charles: have a great weekend. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne, this is "making money." stocks came out the gate really hard hit by economic data, but really it was the bond market's continued reaction the economic data, the bond market. what is it saying, and why are investors having yet another hissy fit over what everyone is saying pretty good news? again, wall street looking at maybe one rate cut, some firms saying none. also, folks, where are the opportunities? should you chase the big winners? some of them already turned around a intraday, or should you be looking at a bottom fishing? we've got an expert that's going to ten -- help you with your portfolio, and a power panel discussing the insurance industry. all that and so much more on "making money." the jobs report -- ♪ ♪ charles: all right or. now, we got the intro done,

let's start with the jobs report. it did come in better than expected, surprise! i can't wait for those revisions. so we get the knee-jerk reaction. higher bond yields, a spike in the u.s. dollar which i think is the most a damning of all of this, lower equities. i've got to be quite honest, i didn't see much that suggests panic to stock investors. wage gains are slowing, you don't get wage inflation because of the jobs -- composition that we saw. full-time jobs, by the way with, declined by 350 to ,000 and, again, the composition of these numbers aren't too great. retail and pleaser, the two lowest -- leisure, the two lowest. demographic issues, maybe more so than economic. even after the gap lower though, the market started to really feel more pressure because of this michigan sentiment number which i think might be more important. and it's not the sentiment number, it's the big news with the inflation report, right, the part of this. they ask about one-year expectations for inflation, went

to 3.3% from 2.8. that is a huge spike. it's the highest level since may of 2024, well above the prepandemic range of 2.2 to 3%. this is really what's worrisome, and this is what the fed tries to control, the uncertainty over inflation's pennsylvania. look at those on your right-hand side -- path. those are spiking, absolutely spiking. and i think it is more impactful particularly when it concerns fed policy than the news we got from the jobs report. remember, jay powell's always discussing main street expectations, and in the past he's taken emergency actions based on data just like this. whether the fed can be accommodative or not and this market rally without an accommodative fed, we know it can, but there's a large section that wants its cake and eating it too. hardly anyone thinks a rate cut is going to be anytime soon, but some say, guess what, folks?

no more rate cuts. yesterday i was honored to participate in a round table which has become an annual event, and it's really wonderful. hosted by double line's deputy chief investment officer, jeffrey sherman, and i want to bring jeffrey in right now. jeffrey -- >> hey, charles, how are you? good to see you again. charles: you too, man. you did an amazing job yesterday. i'm glad this pays a lot less than you do, or i'd be worried about my job. [laughter] let's talk about the data today. the jobs report was stronger than expected, that michigan sentiment number sent a lot of ripples through the market. your thoughts. >> yeah. i mean, as we've been seeing, you know, i kind of put this in the context of the last 14 months, and the bond market especially on the rate side got really excited when jay powell in november of '23 said there'll be no more hikes, right? and that really set off a lot of things. the rate expectations were, like, cuts are imminent, cuts

are going to be aggressive. they've been too tight the for too long, and then the data that hasn't corroborated that story meaningfully. now, obviously, we had some, you know, some strength in cpi early last year. we got, you know, because of some softer economic data over the course of the summer, then you got the cuts priced in again. now what we've essentially done is after we've got about 100 basis points of cuts off of the policy rate, now the fed is in wait and see mode. and as you said too, i don't think it's the as much the jobs report as a lot of it is the sentiment and inflation expectations numbers. so when you look at, you know, given where policy rates are, the economic activity -- i know we talked about this yesterday, about aggregates which can obfuscate what's going on on the lower end, but you're still seeing consumption, job growth irrespective of what the areas are. and, again, they are lower paying segments, but those jobs are available. we need them too. charles: right. >> the economy is still going.

it may not be as robust and strong as we want, but obviously these policy rates are not killing us. yes, the stock market kind of had a quick reversal, but it's because of rates. and look, charles, the bond market, the long bond touched 5% today. it's a little bit off of that, but we've had these big moves. so where i'm going all of this -- with all of this, ultimately, i think you need to take the fed out of play right now. don't worry about them. they're not going to be hiking anytime soon, and the market is saying, look, we're not getting cuts the next 6-9 months, just deal with it. charles: so the bond market though, right, even before this morning had gone straight up after the rate cut. it had done something really it's never done before, the reaction. how concerned should we be? is there an alternative message that we're not really focused on? >> i think the bond market was too bearish on the economy and, ultimately, rates needed to come down. and you go back to, you know, early september we got a 10-year that was, like, 3.7%, you know?

we're getting closer to 5 today. 5 was the cycle high. we got that in, back in '23. and so what you see here is that we can live with higher rates, but all of a sudden i think why you're seeing some of this happen on the stock side is bonds started to become appealing when you get to these levels. charles: yeah. >> if i can buy a high quality portfolio that i can mix a little bit of credit in with some of these treasury exposures and i'm going to get 6, 6.5%, all of a sudden, you know, why do i need to take mean beingful risk on other -- the meaningful risk on other markets which may be stretched? the stock market is realizing that, hey, there's another game in town as well -- charles: right. >> at the end of the day, pricing these hikes out of the market is probably where we should have been all along. and, you know, now exactly, essentially, the market is in line with the fed. and so the expectations they have. so i think we're going to be in a wait and see approach. i think the fed is kind of a nothing burger through the first

quarter. we've got to get the new administration, see what policy comes and see actually what gets implemented and what those impacts are on the overall economy. right now i think the economy is good enough. you know, as you said, you can still make money in other things, certain airs -- areas of stocks, the more overvalued or high-flying valuation sectors are more problematic when you get this flight to quality trade that gives you a high yield, and that's the 10-year treasury. charles: jeffrey, you do have a house not far from the studio. i know the flames have come close. the wind shifted last night, they're supposed to shift again, how are you holding up? >> we're good. i've talked to to my colleagues too, and there was no more damage that we saw, so things are good. we thank you for all your concerns, charles, and, you know, it's been a rough week around here. as always, it's great to see you, it's good to do what we do, and it takes our mind off these tragic events. our a hearts go out to everybody out there the in los angeles. charles: absolutely. good luck with egger everything,

man. thanks a lot. >> okay. thanks for having me, charles. take care. charles: i want to bring in economist gillian -- [inaudible] let's just go over this jobs report because i think it comes in a little stronger than you had anticipated, right? >> it did. a lot stronger -- [laughter] charles: were you at 100,000? if it came in at 250, you were looking for the unemployment to tick up, it tickedded down a little bit, and wages at 4, they were a little less than that which i think might be a silver lining, vis-a-vis, inflation. >> absolutely. unemployment has gone up from 3.7% to 4.1% over the year. it had been at 4.3% points in the year, hiring has been slowing, quits have been slowing. so it has been a pretty sluggish labor market. charles: it has been. you know what's amazing to me too, i guess, you know, we're in the business where we have to look at things day to draw,

minute to to minute sometimes, and nothing moves straight up in a line or straight down. when you get a little blip, that's the news. not the trend, but those little blips here and there. again, looking at this jobs report, you see where it's at a something where the federal reserve should be on guard because now we're going to have wage inflation, or do you add any credence to those saying, well, let's take this jobs report and then make assumptions that if we deport a lot of people, we won't have enough workers and wages will become a problem? >> i look at this report and i think, wow, this may be a sign that the labor market turn-around, that we should expect to see that i thought would be a 2025 story, may have already taken hold. and why should we be optimistic about jobs in 2025? i think the fed's 100 basis points of cuts have actually translated into some improvements -- charles: really? you think they've already made a difference? >> they have, and i'll show you a couple of indicators --

charles: tell me what they are. >> one, share of banks prepared to lend to consumers has gone up. two, home -- households, home equity line of credit balances have gone up. they've actually been able to tap the up ferentzed amount of home equity that they have. charles: right. >> and we've seen that translate into -- charles: are banks more willing to lend right now? >> yes. in all the bank surveys, banks say they're becoming more prepared to lend to consumers, and consumers are buying items again. between 2015-2019, vehicle sales flatlined at around 17.7 million annualized. since mid 2023 with those high rates, they were at 16.1 million, they're now shooting up to 17 million annualized again which shows, finally, consumers are feeling confident about a making big ticket purchases. i thought the labor market would lag behind more, but then we would see that confidence trick trickle down in the next few months -- charles: you're not worried that even though people are taking out these 10046 month --

100-month loans, it's more of a yolo factor? you think it's long-term confidence, not just i'm living for the moment. >> i do, and -- charles: i had an uncle that lived in a trailer, but he always had the latest car. you know what i'm talking about. [laughter] >> oh, definitely. we've seen among our customers if at ziprecruiter employers are feeling upbeat and optimistic. we haven't quite seen it in the job postings and hiring yet, but there are signs of it happening. charles: i did see a posting you had on x. i'm receiving lots of e-mails from l.a. city institutes on mental health services, i wish they would coordinate disaster response. i don't need a shrink, i need good governance. i've been hearing that over and over again. just how frustrating is it for you? you don't live far from here. >> no, i live in the heart of pacific palisades, and my neighborhood has been gutted,

decimatedded. we can't believe the the extent of the destruction. it's a terrible, terrible scene, and there are very many regrettable policy failures that brought us here. charles: do you think this will change things? honestly, because i'm listening to the press conferences out here, anden i don't with hear anyone who sounds culpable. i hear, you know, climate change, i hear blaming president-elect trump. [laughter] i hear finger pointing -- i see finger pointing and i don't hear anyone saying we may have made a mistake. >> so if the state is concerned that climate change poses an exist enthe, risk and the -- existential risk, well, then they should allow insurers to price that risk. charles: right. >> instead, they refused to and drove them out of the market. so you have many, many families who are uninsured, completely uninsured or very far severely underinsured, and -- very severely underinsured. you're going to have payoffs coming from the rest of the

country, a mag stabilizer isn't going to be there. charles: julia, sorry to hear about it, but i'm glad you're okay. see you soon. our next guest lives a couple of blocks away from the if origins of the palisades fire. i want to bring in danny saylor. i know you and your mother both lost your houses to the fire. i don't think, you know, even being here, landing on tuesday night i could smell the smoke 20 minutes away from lax. and up until that moment, it didn't hit me how severe this was. >> well, charles, i was at the hospital. my wife was giving birth on monday night to our second, second child, baby girl. so, look, i wasn't that far. i was at st. johns. i called my insurer. i called my sister, told her to grab the portraits of my grandfather, my father or, my passports, my shotguns. i mean, i knew-going to be a big one. i've been through five of these things. charles: right.

>> i knew this was going to be the big one. and and not to to mention just the horrible infrastructure and policies that we had in place that totally exacerbated this thing. charles: you know, or i got chills as you talked about what to grab. everyone has done the hypothetical. they said if your house was on fire, what would you grab? on the top of my list is my mother's passport with all three of us, that that's my if favorite item. to have to live through that and go through it in real life, in realtime is amazing. just your thoughts on the response, you know? julia talked about how some of this could have been mitigated, and obviously, the post-catastrophe cost is going to be through the roof because many people don't even have insurance. >> it's, it's unbelievable. i mean, how are people going to get loans? because the banks are going to to require insurance. and what kind of carriers are going to come in here and take this kind of exposure? i mean, this is a conundrum. we have totally ineffective

clowns running the show in los angeles. i mean, they're focused on totally unnecessary programs, dei, etc., etc.,, versus the foundation thal elements that the city needs like basic infrastructure. case in point, they stopped the hydrant testing program last month. that's ridiculous are. charles: yeah a. >> they're totally wasting taxpayers' money. it's unbelievable. it's like the democrats have mastered the metric of high pay to pit pitiful performance. it's the opposite of every -- the complete opposite of what we want, right? yet it's totally thematic to democratic leadership. charles: well, you know, at the end of the day though it's incumbent upon voters to eventually vote out those people who just don't have your self-breast interests at heart or the votest interests at heart. i do want to say congratulations on the birth of your daughter. santa monica was heavy hit. that was the hospital you went

to. we're happy you and your family are safe. god bless you, man. talk to you again real soon. >> charles, thank you so much. maga. charles: you got it. [laughter] all right, folks. fox corporation has made a $1 million donation to the red cross. if you would like to help, go to american red cross which provides meals and shelter to families affected. donate by going to go.fox red cross or by scanning that qr code right there on your screen. we'll be right back. k you, sir. (man) these people of privilege... hoarding the financial advantages for far too long. (auctioneer) 7.5 at the back. (man) look at them — unaware that robinhood gold members now enjoy the vip treatment — a 3% ira match on retirement contributions. (auctioneer) 11 million sir. (man) once they discover their privileges are no longer exclusive... their fragile reality will plunge into disarray. ♪

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charles: all right, so to say my next guest was underwhelmed by the payrolls report would be an understatement. let's bring in heritage economist e.j. antoni. e.j., you know, there are very few sources that i go to almost immediately after the jobs report, but you're one of 'em because you cut to the chase. everyone else is regurgitating the headlines and giving out the same accolades. you're saying let's find out what the truth is. talk to us about what you see in today's jobs report. >> charles, one of things i see is an increased reliance on government to try to boost these numbers. the number of government jobs hit yet another record high

which it has been doing month if after month. it's now over 23.5 million. and while that may sound great that people are working, the problem is these are people whose jobs are being funded by the government, in other words,by tax -- by taxpayers, and you need to be adding more private sector jobs, and we're just nowhere near that ratio. that's especially true once you look at not only jobs that, i would say, are directly funded by the taxpayer, but also indirectly. when the government gives a grant, let's say, to a school or a hospital and they hire a teacher o or a juster, a january, to it doesn't -- janitor, it doesn't matter, those are funded at least indirectly by the taxpayer. so, charles, when we look at all of the job growth of last year, 2024, what we find is more than half was paid for by taxpayer dollars. that's a completely unsustainable rate. charles: you know, another thing that bothered me with this number was at the top of it we

have health care, retail and leisure, and i've already talked about how leisure and retail are the two lowest paying. at the very bottom, we lost 13,000 manufacturing jobs. i know that our taxpayer money, they've been pouring billions and billions of dollars. we were told this was a manufacturing renaissance, and almost every time the manufacturing jobs parts is major disappointment. how did we lose 13,000 manufacturing jobs? >> charles, that's a great question. i think the people putting out that propaganda are confusing the renaissance9 with the dark ages, quite frankly. since the beginning of 2023 the we've now lost 100,000 manufacturing jobs, and the scary thing is we're going to lose another 100,000 with next month's report because that's when we're going to incorporate the annual benchmark if revision. those are numbers that have already been estimated, they just haven't actually been incorporated into the monthly data. so the manufacturing sector's much weaker than we've been led to believe by the bls and that, by the way, aligns very well with other data whether it's

private or public sector, you know? the regional fed manufacturing surveys that we get each month, those have been showing manufacturing in contraction. the pmis for manufacturing have also been showing the same thing that the sector is deteriorating, has been, and new that rate of deterioration is accelerating, in fact. and, again, i think this is emblematic of the broader labor market where things are no where near if as rosy as we've been led to believe. charles: i've got a little bit less than a minute to go. bank of america said no rate cuts, and you put out a tweet some may think is controversial -- a post, rather, not a tweet. x, translating that the fed intends to punish trump with tighter monetary policy exactly as they did in his first term. it was intriguing in the last fomc statement, there's a lot of conversations and guessing, but the fed is supposed to be data-dependent. for them to be talking this much about trump's policies and

perhaps adverse impacts on economy, it lends credence to your concern that maybe they're going to take actions that they don't necessarily have to take. >> you're right, charles, especially when you realize many of these trump policies, we don't even have them yet. they're been talked about at the 30,000-foot level, and yet the fed is already making the determination that they're going to be inflationary? i'm sorry, where were you clowns when biden was spending trillions of dollars we didn't have? oh, that's right, you were telling us inflation was transitory and that all of that excess spending was not, in fact, going to be inflationary in the hong runful turns out they were -- long run. turns out they were wrong. these are the same people who were hiking interest rates and selling off the balance sheet essentially for all of trump's term until covid hit. the exact opposite of the treatment they gave obama where they kept rates at almost zero for the entirety of his term. they are not data-dependent, they are not

politically-independent. they have been playing politics. they cut rates hard and fast right before the election, and now that trump won, they're all of a sudden complete if wily changing their tune in the minutes where now it's not the rate cuts are coming, it's now higher for longer. it's an absolute joke, charles. charles: we need to put a microphone on them, blow it up and put it back together in a way where common folks eventually benefit from the federal reserve because they're getting crushed no matter what. e.j., thanks a lot. always appreciate your insights. >> thank you, charles. charles: all right, folks. my next guest made 67 on his portfolio last year, 87% the year before that that, so what's he buying in 2025 and what's his secret? he says you've got to have a longer view outlook, next. ♪ ♪

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get up to a $1500 new customer offer in bonus bets when you sign up now. betmgm. download and bet today. ♪ charles: so wall street has made some of the most amazing moves in the tech area over the last ten years, but where you can find them is on social media. i've been watching a guy for a while who's shul phenomenal. wolf podcast host shai -- with us. you don't do this for a living, right? you have a different job, per se say. >> yeah, absolutely. i call this my batman job. my bruce wayne job is a director of corporate strategy. charles: how did you get into this? i follow a lot of folks, i see

your writing, your intellect, how do you have the time to even be as good as you have been so far? >> yeah, so my whole thing is finding the -- who are going to go through cultural shifts. i find the clear winners that are going to be the, have have the most defense if, moat in each of these themes. valuation takes a sideline approach, it's can they be disruptive -- charles: you're looking at the business itself. >> exactly. charles: they're building it, to your point, a defensible business. but what about the industries themselves like a.i.? again, you know, wall street was lukewarm on a.i. even when the chatgpt announce came out. all of a sudden, when those stocks took off, wall street just kept saying sell 'em, sell 'em, sell 'em because i don't think they could grasp the change. >> i think a lot of the big hedge funds can't see growth, it

isn't reflected in excel sheet. they missed it with palantir with enterprise a.i., they're going to do the same thing for the next phase which is software applications, and the one after is going to be quantum. charles: let's start with some of the names you like because it's interesting, one of my favorite software analysts, he didn't have a buy on palantir, and i think that's a bias that wall street has. if too many folks know about it, then we don't like it. [laughter] but you still like palantir, and you thinkable the pullback is going to give -- think this pullback is beginning to offer more. >> absolutely. i think the government side of the business alone could be worth what they're worth right now, and the commercial side is just getting started. the scalability of that is through the roof. any analyst who knows the damn, time -- tam, times that by ten. charles: snowflake, by the way, full disclosure, my subscribers are in, got an upgrade. somebody on wall street's

listening. i want to switch gears to quantum computing. these stocks went crazy. i featured them on november 20th, two of them with a 10-handle. i tried the get some people to, you know, hey, take profits because those are crazy moves, right? and so a lot of people are in there. everyone's really profitable. now they're kind of worried after what general seven weak -- jensen huang said. >> i actually think people misquoted what jensen was saying. i think he was referencing the general application of quantum for consumers. he's not reference aring the applicability today. we have names like ionq that are in partnership with amazon aws, they're solving issues today. i think his comments were mainly on the chat chatgpt moment -- which i agree with. charles: by the way, he's plug his book too. [laughter] >> it's sucking the air out of a.i -- charles: exactly.

and that willow announcement. some of it, too, was not self-preservation but, hey, yeah, don't give him that much credit. [laughter] what else do you like here? >> i believe 2025 the will be the year of software. similar to what 2023 was for hardware. snowflake, you mentioned, i think they're getting completely rerated and it's going to be one of those palantir-like moves in 2025. the narrative on snowflake was a.i. will cannibalize them as a data warehouse, but now they're going to get rerated to being the enterprise a.i. platform. i could see it being $100 in the near term. charles: you've got a great following, you've got a great track record. obviously, it's a long-term thing, but are you considering making in your full full-time gig? >> absolutely. this is my passion. i wake up at 3 a.m. every day doing this, and i don't need an alarm clock. i just wake up excited. i anticipate this being my full-time gig. charles: it's my passion too, and i do the same thing.

i love it, every single day. talk to you later. >> appreciate it. charles: hey, i want to bring in tom hayes. you know him from the show, and the reason i don't have tom on more frequently is he's long term. he's going to tell you the same thing over and over again but, here's the thing, you want to listen to what tom hayes has to say! this guy has an amazing track record, and he's with us now. tom, welcome to the show. >> thanks for having me, charles. charles: you're a long-term nervous, so it's only fair to judge your ideas, i think, on a year to year basis. january 2024, citi, up 33. bank of america, up 33%. google, up 39%. amazon up 46%. is that crowd court -- cci, crown castle. that's the only one that's down. these are amazing numbers, my man. >> thank you. charles: even with the 25% decline in there, you've got four names up 30%, one up almost

50%. the key is fundamentals and to have patience. >> yeah. we like to buy things when they're out of favor. crown castle actually had a rally, and it's the come back in. we like crown castle here. you know, it's very interesting when we see ates, i heard your a block talking about rates. you know, the 10-year yield did the exact same thing in trump 21.0 -- 1.0. yields blew out, the dollar rallied like crazy right after the inauguration you know what happened? bonds got bid, international stocks took off. all the things people thought weren't going to do well under trump did extremely well. and what actually did poorly that first year? energy. charles: yeah. and ironically, this past year solar stuff has been a disaster under the solar stock of biden -- >> -- great the first year of trump. charles: yeah, yeah. it's amazing when they zig and zag or the markets start to price this thing or start to be in there. the average holding period, like let's say 1960, people used to

hold stocks 6, 7 years. it's down to 5 months. >> yeah. charles: is it tough just getting folks to hold particularly when they don't move many your direction initially? >> it's interesting, this has been an aberration, and we're all blinded by leans city -- rent city bias. growth has smoked value since 2010 -- charles: but is that a paradigm shift. >> it could be. people say capital-like models, etc. but what actually happened was zero interest rate policy. unless you believe we're going back to zero interest rate policy which today tells you, and i think we're going to a normalized environment, you want to start to look at some value stocks. you know, the equity risk premium yum, everyone's talking about that is very bearish, it's the lowest it's been since 2000 which was a generation alibi for value, international, small caps, etc. i think we're going to have some opportunities there. charles: you used the word normal. i'm hearing that a lot.

what does that mean, normal? what is a normal bond yield? >> yeah. i think people overestimated us taking the terminal rate down to 2. 5 -- charles: right. we're going to simply go right back there. >> yeah. i think if you look at the late '90s, 3.5, 4% is a reasonable place where you can have economic growth, it lebanon-contractionary, and that's the right sweet spot when you have demand -- charles: i'm rushing you because we're running past the time, but we've got to get some jewels from you because you're rocking, and people want to know what to buy. >> turn-around tom likes advance auto parts. charles: oh, no! [laughter] >> this is the worst run auto retailing -- charles: yes. i did a special on this bad boy. >> the new chairman is the the number one thing, solvency risk off the table. closing the unprofitable shops on the west coast, focusing on the areas where he's number one and number two. targeting margins that imply $630 million operating income by

2027. last time it had $630 million operating income, stock traded between 180-240. we like this over the next 2-3 years. charles: my man. we'll see one year from now, but we're definitely going to be watching. >> i love it. thank you so much. charles: all right, folks, we'll be right back. known for pursuing your passions. no one wants to be known for cancer but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved

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♪ if. charles: so my next guest says that the month of january is, indeed, very, very important month for the market. it sets the tone, especially during new presidential terms. let's bring in evans may wealth managing partner elizabeth evans. elizabeth, let's talk about that for a moment. we've got the january effect, the first five days, all these barometers. i had, i had the guy from stock almanac if kind of coining all of these, and they said the most important thing is how we finish the month of january. what are you anticipating, and just how much will it influence your thinking as the year quos on? >> well -- goes on? >> well, good afternoon, charles. what a day in the markets and, certainly, what a start to the year. we have seen all three major indices, the dow, the s&p and the nasdaq, in oversold territory. so the dow's now 7% off its 52-week high, the s&p's 4.5% off

its 52-week high. nasdaq's 5% off. and technically all oversold. so i do believe that this is a dip that is a buying opportunity for long-term fundamental investors. and to your earlier question, i think we end the year higher from where we are today. we may have more downside before we move higher, but there's still room to go. charles: all right. i'm going to rush you a little bit because we had a phoner from from one of the local folks in l.a. dealing with these fires. but three themes, high quality, cash generation and low debt. those are pretty specific. i mean, just how many names -- that seems like a pretty narrow list there. >> well, i think that especially given what we've seen today9 with the labor report you want to own stocks that will continue to do well in a a higher interest rate environment. mega-cap tech we've talked at length, charles, over the last year. i agree with your prior guest that this year is the year of

software for a.i., but you want to own high quality in this environment. and looking at those factors you just mentioned will help you weed out some of the companies that went crazy in november and now are coming back to reality. charles: yeah. i was at a round table yesterday with some of the smartest, most successful people on wall street, and they're not really excited about the strength, the overreliance, concentration of those names. i was the sort of outlier there. also there's some concern about the u.s. right now i think u.s. is 7 11th of the global stock market -- 71%. but you say focus on u.s.-based companies, right if. >> yes. if you look at europe's gdp, it's barely growing. china has its own set of issues. and, charles, how many investors and talking heads have said that? every year they say international's going to swing back and normalize, and yet the u.s. continues to outperform especially with this a.i. evolution. we are 5-10 years ahead of the rest of the world, and we

believe strongly you want to overweight u.s. equities. charles: by the way, we've run out of time, but one stock you do like here is uber. and i think the value proposition there continues to improve certainly with all the technology advancements that we're talking about. elizabeth, happy new year. thank you have very much. talk to you again real soon. >> happy new year, charles. thank you. charles: hey, folks, we'll be a right backm . no. i can do some . ya know, that's backed by j.p. morgan's leading strategists like us. when you want to invest with more confidence... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management sofi is helping me get my money right to achieve my ambitions. like earning more money on my money as a head chef. ready for service? bank with sofi to earn a higher apy and an epic welcome bonus.

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coverage and, of course, we know that this is going to be perhaps the most expensive fire disaster in american history. so the debate now is on insurance companies in general particularly when it comes to claims. of course, this also involves state regulations that may be the real culprit here. i want to bring in the author of you will own nothing, carol roth, also tiane no -- taye january that -- tiana loeb doescher. carol, the brush, clearing away brush, making sure that there's enough water, making sure there's enough firefighters out there, you know, and making sure that people can afford insurance and not capping insurance rates, it's just -- they actually set up the perfect storm for what's going to be the worst disaster, wildfire if disaster in american history. >> absolutely. and i mean, california, if it were its own country, would be about the fifth largest economy in the entire world. you have people who are paying taxes out of every orifice,

charles, right? the progressive income taxes, the high property taxes because the values on the homes are so high, gas taxes and what not. and the fact that you have leaders who didn't do those things the that you said, the obvious things, in 2025, you have elon musk out there getting markets returned to the earth and can catch them, and they cannot do something that is entirely predictable. there's a reason that the insurance companies said, hey, there isen ab -- there is an issue here. and the fact that these leaders have not done that, you know, this is not a mistake, this is intentional, and they should be held accountable. charles: but, tiana, no one in government here is taking any blame at all. >> oh, no. not only is there no blame, there's also no empathy, right? if that galling 2-minute clip of karen bass coming from ghana -- first of all, what's a mayor doing in africa? but no response to it. look, we all all knew this was perfectly preventable because, guess what? california's air rid climate,

dry, big santa ana winds, those have been going on for centuries. that's not a novel if consequence of climate change. and there's a reason why native americ controlled burns. gavin newsom promised after the 2020 devastating wildfires that he would burn a million acres per year in last year we have on record, 2022, he did 10% of that. charles: wow. >> so it goes on downward down to the fact that lafd was diverting millions of dollars the dei and electric fire trucks which, guess what? if aren't working now that 300,000 californians don't is -- is access to the electrical grid. charles: i saw there was a post on x, representative jayapal showing a mcdonald's on flames. and sort of saying, hey, you know what? if that's sort of like, you know, kind of what you get, right? corporations got us into this mess, but not even they can escape the devastating reality of climate change. carol, when i see that, it hurts

me because any kids who look up to her, you know, they don't believe in -- they hate corporations, they hate the profit motivation. wow would they -- how would they ever get out of unfortunate circumstances? if you're poor in america and someone that you look up to, perhaps, tells you, well, that's not the path, i mean, it's not big government. she's just, she's blowing it on so many different levels here. >> yeah. every time you think that you've seen the most dishonest or low iq take from somebody in congress, somebody else comes along and says hold my beer, and this is the case with ms. jayapal. obviously, this was not corporations. and unless there is somebody in government or an arson itself, as tu january that said, this was perfectly known and preventable. and the fact that they're trying to divert a discussion when everybody knows the reality of the situation is perfectly disgusting. charles: right. >> however, there's a sea change, charles. that's what we saw in the last election. and, unfortunately, too many

people can't go about this proactively. they have to wait until there's a tragedy. but i bet we will see a lot of change in minds coming out of this. charles: it's going to be shocking. i'm telling you, the next election in california, mark my words, it's going to shock people. hey, we only have a minute and a half to go, so i want to ask real quick, tiana, about the supreme court. they've heard e these tiktok arguments. folks who watch this closely believe they're leaning toward upholding the ban. your thoughts. >> look, the fact that tiktok's board, the majority of which is actually american, but the chinese government won't let them accept a bid for maybe hundreds of billions of dollars tells you that they aren't selling a product, they are using the product as intelligence gathering. kevin o'leary's bid, i don't know the the exact figure yet, but we know it's probably on par with elon musk's bid for tiktok -- or, elon musk's bid for twitter. and that wouldn't even ask bytedance to sell the proprietary algorithm. the fact that the money isn't on

the table means they care about access to your kids than they care about making money. charles: yeah. hey, carol, a lot of small businesses say, hey, i do well with tiktok. i've been able to grow my business there. what do we say to them? [laughter] >> i just say that the whole thing is iron toic. it's okay if the government spies on you. it's okay before elon musk and, you know, before, under zuckerberg if we had our own social media a companies spying on us but, no, all of a sudden it's a step too far. i think we have to put this all in perspective and just realize, charles, this is going to only get worse for everybody once a.i. comes into the game here. charles: yeah. well, a. each's going to be a game-changer on so many levels. ladies, thank you so much, carol and tiana. folks, i hand it over to my colleague, cheryl casone, in for liz claman. it's going to be a rocky hour go. we'll hold on. cheryl: yeah. more than 6000 points down on the dow -- charles -- 600 points. traders looking fo