and right now the monetary policy is easier into still heightened inflation. liz: never a dull moment around here, that's for sure. thank you, david. folks, here comes the closing bell and note, on the dow jones industrials, the gain 280 points considering the dow gap down this morning by 39 p points and it's a pretty interesting come back but the deepseek selloff crushed the nasdaq and closing down 3% and see what happens tomorrow. larry: hello, folks. welcome to kudlow. i'm larry kudlow. president trump started using the tariff weapon. we have an exclusive interview with kevin hassett and brand new director of a national economic

council in the white house just sworn in and then all star economist art laffer and steve miller going to critique him and great fun and cia admitting that covid likely came from a wuhan lab. more on that but first, jacqui heinrich at the white house. jacqui, what's cooking? >> offering the presidential plane to repatriate de-portanova tees and president trump threatened crushing tariffs that would have started at 25% and increase to 55% in a week and a slate of financial sanctions and travel bans and some government officials that basically brought this standoff to an end but congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez while all this was playing out, jumped at the chance to criticize president trump posting we pay the tariffs and not columbia and trump all about making inflation worse for

working class is and not better and lining the pockets of the billionaire class. the headline that followed, aoc roasted over post about columbia tariffs and coffee prices that aged like hot milk. republicans ended the day. >> we reestablish law and order in the first order of businesses and the people who are here and especially the violent criminals to get them out. i think you saw when the columbia president sort of pushed back on that, we can do this the easy way or hard way. but one way or another, the american people have spoken on this and they'll deport people who are here and illegally. reporter: trump's handling of this said club ya and all nations should be on notice and congress is ready to pass sanctions against those that dna tieback cop rate and follow -- cooperate and follow requirements of those in the united states. criminals here illegally should not believe they can hide out in sensitive locations and says the target list is expanding.

>> as we open up that and look for fugitives and those with great taxpayer exp expenses and 1.4 million. anybody in the country illegally, they're on the table and we'll go after them in a privatization that makes sense, the worst first. reporter: new york broadly is the next site of action for arrests ovcriminal migrants and that's the latest according to dhs official, larry. larry: i got it. jacqui heinrich, thank you ever so much. now heading to dural, florida, where president trump is meeting with house republicans. going to be very important. fox news aishah hasnie joining us live. how come you get the florida beat? reporter: larry, so happy to be here and it's gorgeous and the president is in really good spirits and i can tell you that firsthand because i ran into him

during lunch by happen chance is cpi i asked him how he's feeling and he said he had a great week and he's look forward to of course speaking to house republicans in just under an hour here and, larry, i'm told by a senior gop source these remarks at 5: 00 will try to unit the republican conference behind his agenda and he wants to get it done as quickly as possible. here is speaker mike johnson just a few moments ago talking about what we can expect this week >> some decisions will be made and we'll move forward on that agenda. the process and appropriations have to wrap up in the other issues that are upon us. reporter: this is the first time that president trump is hosting the full gop house conference since becoming president and met with smaller key groups in mar-a-lago a few weeks ago and one of those groups was the house freedom caucus and of

course he prefers one big beautiful bill and they've pushed forward two separate bill track and they'll see his remarks tonight, larry. and larry: did they say anything about my one big beautiful bill or they're just hashing it out? reporter: he said heir going to make really big decisions on reconciliation and sync up with the senate heading back to the hill next week. larry: aishah hasnie, appreciate it as always. president trump knows how to use the tariff weapon and that's the sunt of the riff. the president of columbia thought he was going to prevent president trump from deporting criminals back to their home country and mr. petro turned

back the u.s. military deportation flights midair. but then president trump told him to pound sand and threaten to destroy the economy with a 25% tariff that's rapidly gone to 50% but guess what, president petro changed his mind. he offered to send his own government's plane to pick up the columbian illegals and bring them back home himself. mexican president sheinbaum first refused to cooperate with president trump's deportation plan and has his remain in mexico executive order. now, after a 25% tariff threat, suddenly mexico has welcomed a total of four plane loads, with presumably plenty more coming. it may be used to deal with unfair trading practices oracling the boarder and restoring national security and may even be ending the russian

ukraine war. columbian tariff prompted headline stories about how many countries will feel with mr. trump's tariffs and how quickly. wall street journal news story claims momentum is growing among president trump's advisers to place 25% tariffs on mexico and canada as soon as satu saturday, february 1. wall street journal cites anonymous advisers, but the president himself, but mr. trump said he's thinking about february 1. so without question, mr. tram subpoena using tariffs as an effective negotiating tool and he has plenty of executive authority to back that up. and now the question is what exactly will the president's tariff strategy be? looks like mexico is cooperating on the border though unfortunately canada at the moment is leaderless. i don't think mr. trump will

break up the usmca trade deal that was so hard to come by in his first term in just the next couple of days. clangs in that deal are likely to be possible. but the administration players, they're not really in place yet and the time is very short to make that kind of decision by saturday. the president said he's not ready for a universal tariff quite yet. for my part. i rather like the universal tariff and i especially like the numbers. roughly $5 until imports and at 10% rate could yield roughly 500 billion in revenues and finance tax cuts and i think at least 50% if not more of those cost of tariffs born by the exporting countries. hence, they'll be no more than a slight possible one off price

impact at worst. mr. trump's past custom tended to be bilateral negotiations and the principle of reciprocity and tax us, we'll tax you. but if you cut your tax on us, we'll cut ours on yours. this theoretical sense, mr. tram subpoena a free trader who woule trader with lower tariffs and lower tariff barriers and less government subsidy worldwide and many on wall street are crazed about the ideas of the way to be the world's trading system has been broken for a long time. certainly president trump is aiming tariffs at china, but he has said he's going talk to xi jinping first. china tariffs more than twice as high as americas and european, 50% higher and brazil and india,

nearly five times as high and world trading organization does nothing about all that. and that is why i think mr. tram subpoena completely right to play an america first strike thaty. knowing him as i do, no one should be surprised if he keeps us all guessing till he strikes. make no mistake, make no mistake about it, president trump knows how to use this tariff weapon. and that is the subject of the riff. okay. and joined by kevin hassett. congratulations. congratulations, kevin. >> thanks. it's an honor to be back in your office, larry. larry: that's right. yes indeed. a lot of people are distinguished people that have had that job done through the

years. kevin, how do you see president trump's tariff strategy. it's all over the front pages today? >> with the columbia negotiation and the president will use tariff ifs he needs to in order to get people to make policy concessions that are good for america. that make -- put america first. but the thing to understand when you're looking at president's actions is that whatever tariff comes from somebody doing something like stopping us from sending planes to columbia to get rid of criminals they sent here in the first place, if we were to put a tariff on a country like that, whatever that tariff is is in addition to whatever president trump does in the future of thinking about an overall tariff and the bottom line is that a tariff part of

supply side strategy and it's something that the president and everybody negotiates and you can have a really great supply side reform to american taxes by putting tariffs and dividing tariff withs a smart reform to the tax system. larry: well, you know, i like the numbers, at least the ballpark numbers and roughly $5 trillion of imports on a yearly basis. if you had a 10% universal tariff, i'm just hypothesizing and had 10%, depending on the sensitivities and elasticities and demand and so forth, produce $500 billion worth of revenues and could then go to finance tax cuts and i like that approach and it has just enough william mckinnley in it to make it sexy. the president is a big follower of william mckinnley and from

1870 to 1913, we didn't have an income tax and civil income war tax was taken off and we use tariff revenues to finance the government. he's right about that. and so this has just a slight feel, a slight william mckinnley feel and once you -- i don't think yuppies knew william mckinnley. >> you went to college with reporter: larry: i was a young research assistant for teddy roosevelt. larry: it has something to do with mr. trump's thinking. >> yeah, for sure. the bottom line again is that when the people who are trying to cause panic over president trump's trade policy, simulate what it'll do and don't account for all the other policies and president trump is drill, baby, drill and deregulate and tax cuts and reduce spending and

forget about the fact that the economy is not doing anything and the democrats are spending $1.5 trillion more than when we left space have all these things to fix and if you look attar riffs as part of overall -- at tariffs as part of overall strategy and it's a golden age and supply side reform that america has ever seen. larry: wall street is crazed about tariffs and read routinely, every news story has a paragraph or two about how tariffs will be inflationary. is wall street wrong, kevin hassett? >> look, that's -- everybody has been saying that for the last year and goldman sachs thing that said, you know, harris' policies would be better than trump and more on government spending and going to get inflation and don't let the drill, baby, drill and if you do, as biden did over the last couple of years and kill

130 million chickens, than egg prices go up. the fact is that we're doing micro-things correctly, deregulatory things correctly and getting the macro stuff right too. make no mistake, under joe biden just under 5% of the whole term, about a little bit less than it was under jimmy carter and way more than double what it was under tram. we're 100% on the ball going fr an all above approach and inherited high inflation and 50% higher than it was when we left office and president trump for sure is going go after them and doing it with all the above and looking at everything and he wills inflationary for the prize of eggs and kill 130 million chickens, guys. larry: okay. wall street journaling story saying trump adviser story and

going for thanksgiving them and going for them to be close to deciding on a 25% hike in the tariffs for mexico and canada. which would throw a monkey wrench into ummca. >> president trump is committed to getting the fentanyl imports into the u.s. under control. it's boar poured across the border of canada and mexico and he's very serious about it and that's all i can say right now. larry: am i getting my one big beautiful bill or how is it going to work? >> going for the trump administration and saying i'm going to do this and that and

you pretty much get what he wants and i can remember the one difference i remember is he wanted 50% corporate rate and then w we got 20 in the end. he can compromise but usually get what is he wants. putting a number out wouldn't be surprised. he's had 50 on the brain for a long time. larry: i wouldn't be surprised either. what about the idea senator crapo's idea and not justice idea and others to use a current policy baseline that is tax cuts of popular and should be made permanent and going to have the deficit high, deficit low that as obama used in 2012, the baseline is nothing has changed and shouldn't be rescored all over again and going for them around the white house and going for them and senator crapo talking about president trump. >> yeah, president trump is 100%

aware of baseline strategy and he respects people in congress have to go on the baseline and how is this going to help american worker ifs we do this or that and how do we get spending under control and so he understands these negotiations and i think in the end, what he wants to talk about is going to talk about this and that's the truth. baseline stuff is kind of an inside baseball congressional thing, and i'm sure that we can defer to those folks. but you're 100% right that the bottom line going to spend the dollar and dollar in the baseline and cutting taxes bay dollar and then it's not in the baseline. that doesn't make sense and it's in favor of more spending. it's 100% aware of that . and incredible friendship with senator crapo and deciding with the baseline and going to depend on all sorts of things and

parliamentary and going to get out of the white house and helping america's workers and not knowing what they're doing. larry: former cea chair and nec director and give us a quick, quick snapshot of the michigan where is the economy today? >> the big thing is that there's a lot of news on artificial intelligence today that there's some pretty good tail wind from artificial intelligence increasing productivity but at the same time, the reckless spending of the biden administration has created something of a problem with inflation going way above the fed's target and so i'm in a place where i've seen more stuff that we have to fix than stuff i'm happy about. larry: do you think -- i've noticed, this is the last point, it's hard to figure right now we're at the beginning of the express not the end. but a number is circulating among house chairs and so forth. a target of $2-3 trillion in

spending or saving ands reductions of a 10 year window and do you think those are good ballpark numbers and thinking about the possibility of a $2 or 3 trillion spending savings over the next ten years? >> you know, one of the really fun things of the last year going to be an honor to serve my country again and jo going to se the doge people and the money in the halls and not seeing money wasted bay wasteful government. we don't have one of the overall targets going to be and we should be stunned by the waste under the biden administration and there's a heck of a lot for our team to fix, and i think we're very optimistic about our ability and more. larry: heaven cassette, thank you -- kevin hassett, thank you

very and have talk soon. all right, folks, we'll react to first interview with art laffer and nec director of the white house. catch kudlow monday through friday at 4:00 p.m. and fox business and fabulous fox business that is. for some reason you can't get us at 4:00, for heaven's sakes text your favorite 9-year-old and she'll show you how to dvr the show. never miss a tax cut or tariff or spending increase or whatever. i'm kudlow, be right back. ♪ only servicenow connects every corner of your business, putting ai to work for people. pfft ... every corner? every corner, nick. ow! so kate in hr ... hey kate. can focus on people, not process. oh actually, i have a question ... keep up, nick. do you have to be sick to take a sick day? patty in it is using ai agents to deal with the small stuff, so she can work on the big stuff. agents like secret agents? secret agents i control. with your mind?

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thank you.

larry: l here to weigh in on what kevin hassett said. not that it's a critique or anything, mind you. joining us now, art laffer, former ace created began economist, steve moore, host of more money and wabc radio and both of them wrote a book together the trump economic miracle. i didn't say it was a literary book but they wrote one about the tram 7 economic miracle. trump economic miracle. steven, what do you think?

we've known for a long time and he's a superb economist and agree with everything he just said. l what has being presented here and i wonder what they think about this and calling @ new trump trade doctorate and that is that we will use the american power and american might to get countries to do things that are in america's interest and these are not unreasonable demands and columbia should take back the criminal aliens and mexico should help americans to keep the drugs out of the united states and, yes, europeans should pay their fair share of defense allotments and, you know what, i'm going to make a prediction, he's going to prevail in the next six to nine months prevailing against how long that threat of the tariff in place may be two hours in columbia and we'll cooperate. larry: he told the guy to go

pound sand and threaten to destroy the economy with 25% and 50% staff riff rates and you're right, look, arthur, it's an interesting generic point and going to be steve moore and kevin hassett and others. ten years ago, 12 years ago, 15 years ago and we were very much free traders and i'm not saying we aren't free traders because in my ways mr. trump would like a free trade with reciprocity. all of us have moved toward the use of tariffs coming to move towards free trade reciprocity or as steve just said, to use them as a matter of the national security to close the border and so forth maybe the russian ukraine war and there's no question the world has changed the republican party changed, arthur, and we have changed. can hawkeyes do you make of it?

>> i think you're correct. we have changed and trump during the first term was well aware of negotiating ability of tariffs in doing things and the deals he got were all freer trade than he threatened tariffs to get them and japan and brazil and going for them and look at all this and by the way seven amazingly well qualified to be your replacement and he's a data-driven guy and competent academic economist and i really like him. looking at him here, there's several reasons to use trade to get other octoberives as well. prior to -- objectives as well and prior to 1913, tariffs were a major source for the government. if you look at numbers and use a tariff across the board, flat tariff type of thing, use that to cut income tax and you can see how it works well with

columbia. we'll not have to raise tariffs on columbia to get them to do what we want to co. we'll do it anywhere and the threat of tariffs are a big, big deal and he knows how to use them really well. i'm just waiting for panama to hear it and waiting to hear it from trudeau and sheinbaum coming back and going to give them what i want and mckinnley going for northeastern ohio and great friend and great grandfathers and i wanted you to know that and it gets better and going for them in ohio. it's a collection i say. it's a great deal and tram subpoena a master at this. larry: say this above you but i made the case four years ago when i was in there and couple of opportunistic ed pieces and that because of his belief in reciprocity, mr. trump really does believe in theoretical free trade.

he would like a world with lower tariffs and much lower nontariff barriers and much less government subsidies, steve moore. that is still his view. i don't think anybody ever gives him credit, but he's saying to get from here to there, we're going to have to wield the stick of tariffs. and different from 10 or 15 years ago and steve moore, last few seconds. the tax line is up in the air and spending side is up in the air. >> trump has a voter mandate to do it and taxpayer play ago $3,000 tax increase for this not getting done and you made the point week after week, the longer we wait and more risk this doesn't get done, the more it hurts the economy. first 100 days or at least 150

days, i'm with trump and he's got to have a bill to sign by memorial day. larry: well, i hope the dural conference comes out with one big beautiful bill and extend the existing tax cuts and extend them and get that all out of the way. perhaps we can look at that . negotiate and negotiate aid in that trade bill and that tax bill aid. okay, leaving aid for now. >> california for sure. larry: assistance. that may be. sorry, i didn't understand. that's right. >> we need the votes and they need the bill. larry: carrots and sticks and i agree. gavin newsom enjoys carrots and sticks. art and steve, thank you. coming up on kudlow, president trump suggests sending irs agents to help down at the border. well, here, what i know is irs agents packing heavy metal. not just accountants but packing

guns. we finally found some use for it. anyway, we'll talk about that and a few other things in which lowry and jason chaffetz here onset next up on kudlow. - it's apparent. not me. - yeah. nice going lou!

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larry: so the house is meeting with president trump this afternoon down at dural golf club in miami, florida, and will there be one big beautiful bill and who's going stop it. rich lowry and chief of the national review going for jason chaffetz of fox news. back and for, these guys going for the freedom caucus and many of them don't really care about the tax cuts, they want, you know, tough spending cuts. many, many others love to cut

taxes and they're not that keen on cutting spending and don't seem to have on wall street calling the match book. i just wonder this conference may or may not solve any of that stuff and president trump i think will have to take big leadership position here. >> one thing that is out there and true across all of them is that they are fearful of donald trump. you don't want to be on the wrong side of donald trump and has to pull it together and i was there in congress, not too long ago, you had less than half oturu group of house republicans that were physical conservatives and a group that doesn't want to cut spending and a group that does want to cut spending and a group that doesn't care about the tax policy and then the salt group, the ones that are coming from the northeast that want to increase the threshold on the state and local taxes and then a

couple people out there like libertarians like massies and where they're coming from or what they want to co. only one or two votes. larry: i'm not going this. >> that's a problem. get 100%. larry: put yourself in the president's shoes and what should he tell this conference? i believe it's at 5:00 this afternoon. i could be wrong but what should he do? he's got to make a call here. at some point he's got to make a call. >> well, one, i thought you'd been right all along about one big beautiful bill. hard to do it once but twice. no matter what's solved tonight and it'll be unsolved and going for that process on and on and going to keep this going with the reconciliation bill going to work out and george w. bush and

going to leave it behind and nothing happened with a lot of board reporters focusing in on this and saying this is over here and i guarantee you it's going to end very likely in success but the success will be 2:00 a.m. in the morning. president trump on the phone, the phone getting passed around to various congressmen to wrangle the last voter too. larry: they've got to get it done. they've got to get it done. they need the border money, i'm fine with that. drill, baby, drill. if they want to codify the regulations on drill, baby, drill and liquid gold, i'm okay with that too. the essence of it, it'll be a reconciliation bill; right, mr. congressman. your tax cuts and spending cuts and tax cuts and spending cuts and i'll tell you what else, this idea of a current policy baseline, which is what obama used ask&that mean ifs there's a popular permanent tax cut and do

not have to rescore every year. don't have to rescore all the democratic spending stuff every year. i mean, that's what senator cray foe raised -- senator crapo wanted to do. >> bumping into the debt ceiling issue and revisiting the tax cuts again and going to do it for seven years as opposed to ten. because how wrong the cbo is in how they score these types of things and don't look at it and don't look at dynamic scoring and lowering that and they recognize and thanksgiving and a lot of people from the republican conference and going for that and i must say going for that and it's on the weekend and going for that and irs going for the pact of guns and it's on the lineup.

going to send them to the boarder and marginal rates high enough and coming in on this. it's packing gun sent to the bodder and going for them to work and it's running after waitresses like they do now. underlining the point they made just a minute ago and everyone is afraid of trump and we know in international theory going for them with another concept called compel atlantas and dg what they want -- compel atlanta and going to see it around the world i think and it's also going for them. >> can i talk about irs agents and going to be packing on that. it's going right and you don't want them to send your six and that's going to be there and

they've taken literally thousands of border patrol agents and have them over here doing paperwork and they'll be able to go do an apprehension and they saw as opposed and i think there's a lot more validity to this and it's going to happen with the military and making arrests at the boarder and driving on this and whatever else they need to do to backup and free up the resources. larry: i don't understand 17 inspector generals going for that and released from their position and going for the oversight chair and going with 225 alphabet going for them. fostering them on the line and foster this and let me just say

not everybody across the board and going to be good ones and bad ones and there's 72 inspector generals and president can appoint 36 of them and perpetuity and michael horowitz at university of justice and these are internal auditors and you've got to be careful when you get rid of them. >> he didn't do the three day warning and snout going to stay on side and the first time he'll have to fire them again and larry: thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. folks, catch jason and cohosting the bottom line with day began mcdowell at -- dagen mcdowell at 6:00 p.m. eastern and catch rich lowry at the national review any old time you want. cia admits covid likely came

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>> the cia has assess that had most likely cause of this pandemic rot is devastation around the world is because of lab related incident in wuhan and we'll continue to investigate that moving forward, but i think it was important for the american people to see a constitution like the cia going off the sidelines going to be truthful about that. that.larry: welcome back iowa sr joni ernst. welcome back and great to see you. this is a pretty big deal and he's saying the probabilities is that covid started in the wuhan lab but, you know, obviously the destruction around the world in this country and millions of people with government and censorship going with them and

doctors standing up saying wait a second and didn't migrate to human beings and started in the wuhan lab and it's a biden administration and it's an important thing and i don't know, i think it's a great start and a lot of people, you know a lot of people saying i told you so. i told you so, larry. we've known this from the very beginning and going to preach this for years and i do want to thank director ratcliffe for being forward, forward leaning and telling the american people what the cia knows and confirming what many of us believe all along. why is this important and lives aif he canned in the united states and around the globe. the taxpayer haves invested in this. yes, we had government dollars blowing to the wuhan laboratory

in china. and we have seen the dollars going to risky experimentation and what the pandemic could be funded next if we're not providing the proper oversight and it was a whole of government mistake that's been corrected and the truth can be released to the american people and we can do something about it. so i'm with you larry. i'm glad that we are doing this and let's get the cia up to the line and virus started in and outside of the wuhan lab and can put preventative measures in place. larry: senator, two follow ups on this. number one, do we know a certainty that money has been through cut off. fauci does not know any of that stuff. do we know that, ma'am? >> larry, no, we don't. however, a number of my efforts

have cut off that funding, but we continue to find other avenues of grants that continue to go to the wuhan lab into china and to our adversaries pockets and going for them and dod and we were able to go down a rabbit hold and find in recent years and they were still funding activities at wuhan and he had to go in and directly cut that office as well. and could be other activities and more than we bereavement larry: the other thing, ma'am, the biden administration exercised hard core censorship to anybody that disagreed with their point of view. anybody said wuhan was the same and anybody deciding that not everyone should be mandated to the vaccinated and you're aware

of the president re-instating the military person with service members that were discharged about the covid vaccine mandate and they will be re-instated with back pay. these were among the most egregious things that the biden people did in my judgment. >> yeah, absolutely. what we saw in the past four years was the biden propaganda machine. talk about state-run media, this was state-run media and controlled the message and didn't matter what the topic was. they controlled. they were the ones that went out and censored conservative voices and opinions. larry: yeah. >> it's got to end and did with trump. larry: senator joan ernst, appreciate you speaking on this. appreciate it very much. talk soon. folks, i'll be right back.

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only the servicenow platform puts ai agents to work across your company. they deal with the small stuff that bogs you down. agents like secret agents? you know... i once played a secret agent. - oh... - oh i miss that one. i heard you were great. i was great. larry: once again, i'll just say president trump knows how to use the tariff weapon. all right. unfair trade, national security, financing tax cuts, gee whiz, president trump will make william mckinnley very proud. how about that . we all know who william mckinnley was and we'll all make william mcdonned proud. we know who he was. >> yes. liz: wonderful to see you, larry.