larry: hello, folks. welcome to kudlow, i'm l arry kudlow. we're live in washington, d.c. all right seems that congressional budget office is now suggesting they had it wrong all along admitting lower tax rates produce higher tax revenues we talk about it and more in his first interview since joining administration with u.s. treasury secretary

scott bessent, we have dan clifton waiting in wings, president trump with an executive order keeping biological men out of women's sports, senator tommy tuberville on that and senator cynthia lummis later in the show, republicans must stick to the laffer curve. >> congressional think about office estimated the forecast, they are raising their tax revenue baseline by wait -- 1.9 trillion dollars. this is same outfit that has been telling us for years that lower tax rates always reduce revenues. and increase the deficit. hang on, 2017 tax cuts have been in place for over 7 years is cbo now suggesting they have been wrong all along by admitting that laffer curve really works and lower tax rates reduce

higher revenues? that is the new forecast says. since president trump huge reduction in corporate tax, 35% to 21%. that is over the past 7 years corporate tax revenues have essentially doubled. doubled. and throw in lower personal income tax and other pro growth measures, entire federal tax revenue base has gone up by about wait for it, 50%. did not go down, how in the world can cbo come right back now say again, if trump tax cuts are extended 10 year cost will be 4 trillion in lost revenues, and higher deficits this is no cost, there is no higher deficits keep taxes low and revenues will stay high, less tack growth.le and better art laffer 45z has been right for about 50 years, cbo has been wrong for about

50 years, here they go again, trying to tells us thatt extending trump tax cut willncrease -- baloney this inonsense, republicans in house and senate and white house, should fight this cbo nonsense. one big fighter has been setor mike crapo of idaho, he keeps arguing if you are just extending current law you are not raising taxes you are not lowers taxes. if tax bill is not extended, you have a 4 trillion dollar tax hike that overtime make the budget gap eveworse. mr. k crapo calls it current policy -- in 2012, they extendied george w. bush tax cuts with same policy argument, aume bush

tax cutting would continue, not expire, there s no deficit impact, mr. cre crapoo, therefore they should not score tax otheise, whole federal system will be l like a pin ball machine on permanent tilt. anyway, republicans should work hard, treduce unnecessary counter productive federal spending, shrink the size and scope of government, if they let the tax cuts expire, they will find themselves with a bad economy and higher deficits at same time. it is lose-lose. mr. trump said we should never get tired of winning. let's start winning by extending trump tax cuts maybe growing the economy by 3% or 4% calm it blue collar boom. that is the riff. i went on too long.

anyway, to my friend. joining us for his first interview, since joining the administration, as u.s. secretary treasury, mr. scott bessent. secretary scott bessent, like that sound secretary bessent. >> thank you, larry. larry: we appreciate it. you thought about this flap that is developing i hear about 5 year or edward lawrence reports 5 year extension. not a 10 year? or other flotsam and jetsam to interfere with trump tax cut. >> president trump has a mandate he came in to do big things could one big thing, is make 2017 tax cuts and job act permanent, that will be a continued to make u.s. the number one economy in the world, in terms of growth we'll bring down inflation, we'll cut regulations, and we'll get

the tax cut the goal is for them to be made permanent. as you just said we'll use current policy scoring. >> great. >> the scoring that up until a year ago i was a ci civilian, i have been looking at cbo numbers for 35 years, i never understood the way that scoring worked it is at this . -- tilted toward spending that is why the spends has gotten out of control in washington. larry: you want to lower spending, and lower the tax rates? and what law said you can't do both? is there a biblical chamghchapter that says you can't. >> u.s. does not have a revenue problem, we had a spending problem, we could

up revenues and growth, and president trump got elected because of this affordability crisis. as discussion as karoline leavitt was questioned, real rage growth for working americans is the best way to fix this we will contain prices, we will cut regulations, but real wages for hourly workers and the first trump administration, which you are key part of, hourly worker wages out did superv supervisory wages, wall street had gate, it -- had it great, now were this administration, if is main street's turn. larry: back to -- now you are treasury secretary, you were we adviser during campaign you talked about 3, 3, 3. and mr. trump repeated that.

tell us about that 3, 3, 3, do you believe in it? what does it mean? >> i believe that now that i'm in the seat, i believe in it more than ever. we didn't get to this the debt and deficit problem overnight. and i noticed that senator schumer, who is now screaming about debt and deficits, when it was treatment to break over the piggy bank during covid, we moved the from rescue to recovery, and the economy was already recovering and the democrats blew out the deficit and continued to to it until this past year, as i come into office we have highest deficit to to -- gdp than we ever had when not in a war or recession, 6. 8%, 3, 3, 3, mines over the next few years, by the

end of president trump's term, getting deficit to gdp to something with a three in front of it 3.5% is long-term average, i think by cutting regulation, by sending the bright signal to market, we could create 3% plus economic growth, noninflationary economic growth. which is again, what you and economic team of president trump did last time. and thin the 3 million more barrel i equivalent via engineer produced by u.s. that i met had a meeting with senator sullivan from alaska, he enjoyed telling me that biden administration had sanctioned alaska more than the ayatollah. part of that big energy agenda is energy dominance and security, some security

briefings, a lot of problems that we're seeing with iran and russia have been high -- not only high level of oil prices, but where the oil is coming from. we'll get our budget deficit in order, we'll up growth, and we'll bring energy production home. larry: to 16 some -- >> total, total liquids, including nat gas, we're about 21 now. so it will be 15% increase, on that base. larry: which would get whole down inflation, and drop a lot of prices across the board. president trump talks about this. he las has a very energy centric view of inflation. and it is true. oil impact -- permeates the whole economy, impacts hundreds of consumer goods and items. this might be way to finally slay bidenflation. >> i could not agree more.

and i believe that you know as you said, when we talk about food prices, big component is transport. and the inflation number only single digits of that is energy. but in terms of consumers mind, working class americans, that the energy component for them is one of surest indicators for long-term inflation expectations, if we could get b gasoline back down, heating oil back down, the consumers noton level be saving money, but their optimism for future will allow them to rebuild their lives they had to struggle with over the past 4 years. larry: are mr. secretary, step back, how do you see today's economy? right now, growth inflation, interests, how do you look at this. when you speak with the

president more or less, what do you suggest to him. >> larry, what we have seen is that huge government spending that has been fueling the growth and i talked about several times on your show, during last year, where reprivatizing the economy, and we have will private sector jobs, we'll do that, energy sector, we'll have smart safe and sound bank regulations that gets small, medium banks lending again to main street. and we'll bring manufacturing home again. so, i think that we had a economy that has been supported by the government. we are going to slowly, to of torque back to private. the reasons under biden administration you have not

gotten real wage growth, government jobs don't give real wage growth, because, they increase with the inflation level. >> this is basically you want to reprivatize, you want more business investment. that creates jobs, and higher wages, now that is point of trump tax cuts back 8 years ago, in. the thing that drives me crazy, i hate to revisit this but this cbo stuff, and something 134 some weird things our republican friends, the trump tax cuts did not produce growth, yes, they did, they did not raise wages, there yes, they did. hang on, didn't raise revenues? yes, they did. why are people panicking on capitol hill, why do i hear 5 year extensions, president has not said it why do we hear that tax cuts blow a

hole in the budget deficit? i s tax hikes would. >> if you want look at analysis, what will blow not only hole in the budget deficit in the economy, and the live styles of working class americans, if we do not get this tax bill done, as i said in my senate hearings, this is pass-fail efficient o -- for our side of aisle we would have highest tax hikes in history, that wouldab be on our people, for not moving it forward. larry: president trump said he wants lower interest rates and a cheaper dollar,. do you have a repost to that? >> the president wants lower interest rates.

and what he sees, in my talks with him, he and i are focused on the 10-year treasury, what is the yield of that. if the purpose of lowers interest rates to lower interest rates, federal reserve that -- i will only talk about what they have done, not what i think they should do. from now on. they did a jumbo rate c cut and 10 year rate went up. this year, despite the growth estimates up, 10 years coming down, because i believe that bond market is recognizing, energy prices will be be lower, we could have noninflationary growth, we cut spending we cut side of government, get more efficiency in government and go to a good interest rate cycle. larry: but, scott bessent, it seemed like that the president was conditioning lower rates on lower oil prices. that is what it seemed, i

didn't see him, i know he had truth social postings about this and federal reserve. i didn't see him attacking fed so much on interest rate basis, he attacked them for permitting higher inflation. but, it seemed like thatr' -- he wanted to keep king dollar, right now, he want not blasting or demanding for lower rating unless and until we get oil prices down, thoughts? >> look, you are right on his view on the u.s. as a reserve currency that's excellence speech he gave at economic club in new york we were there in august. he said he wants u.s. to remain the reserve currency. we both know you can be a reserve currenciy and price will fluctuate based to the market. as i said, he wants lower rates, he is not calling for the fed to lower rates.

he believes that if we do all the things that you and i have talked about today, if we derig late the economy, if -- deregulate the economy get that tax bill done and energy down, then, rates will take care of themselves and dollar as well. larry: he insists on it being world currency. he said he would tariff 100% some of the countries iffy this created another currency, they have not yet. he seems adamant about that. what i call king dollar. >> >> larry, i have been in the currency markets for 35 years. and i can tell i, t you, there no alternative to the dollar. the other country can talk about it, they may try to take away our reserve currency status. but, there is no other reserve currency on the

horizon. larry: let's shift gears, much in news, until today, tariffs. and mr. trump had some success with his tariff threats, i think he is serious. at some point will come back to that. how do see as treasury secretary, you will be a key player according to president. how do you see the tariff strategy right now. >> i think it is a several different aspects to the strategy, we saw what what happened colombia, president threatened tariffs, and the president of colombia not only allowed illegal immigrants back into his country but offered to send his own plane, threat -- signed an order for tariffs on mexico and canada over the weekend, on monday,

president of mexico offered 10,000 troops at southern border and justin trudeau, same thing, this is in response to the fentanyl crisis. also tariffs on china. you know, again this is due to the fentanyl crisis, this is not a revenue issue, right now. >> mr. trump seems to be moving, steve miller said it yesterday, i heard from president trump, he seems to want to move this system toward more tariff-related revenues and fewer income tax-related revenues. and universal tariffs seems to be out there whether 10 or 20% i don't know. >> i think that tariffs are a mines to an end that -- a means to an end that end is bringing manufacturing base back to u.s. that in theory, tariffs would be a shrinking ice cube, you would tariff a country and then as the

production comes back to the u.s., the income tax corporate revenues and the pay income tax goes up and tariff income goes down. the current account deficit goes down. trade deficit goes down. soy, tariffs are a mean to an end to reshore you know economic security in the u.s. larry: you still concern about r reciprocity and unfair trading practices. >> completely, we saw several things, probably only good thing they could say about the covid crisis it was it of course a test run for what a hot war could look like, a deeper economic war could look like, and we realized that ultimate supply chains are not secure. so, we want to bring back medical supplies, we have to

bring back shipbuilding, things like that. so, we know that we have a group of industries that we were very vulnerable during covid crisis that basically china, the most i'm pl i'm b imbalanced place in history ofs world were not reliable suppliers, we talk about china shock and how much worse it was for working morning than thought. larry: interesting an economic article in -- very interesting china shock. last one treasury secretary scott bessent. in headlines today, elon musk's influence on the treasury, doge's en influence on treasury, are treasury secretary, what can you tell us. >> you know, elon musk is the greatest entrepreneur of this generation.

and the doge you know outlook and their brief from the president, that department of government efficiency, and we had grace -- we're old enough to remember. larry: peter grace. >> grace commission in 80s. >> reagan years. >> bill clinton, al gore set up a commission on government efficiency, that failed. and doij doge is not going to fail, they are moving a lot of people's cheese here in the capitol. and that -- when you hear this squawking, then, some stastatustatus quo interest is not happy, i will tell you at the treasury, our payment system is not touched. everything we process 1.3 billion via payments a year. there is a study being done,

can we have more accountability, more accuracy and traceability that money is going where it is, as far as stop that is upstream at department level. larry: well, essentially you you say you are con cooperates on government down sizing with elon musk and doge. >> i am saying, our motto in treasury to move th deliberately and fix things. larry: i like, that secretary treasury scott bessent thank you, we appreciate your time. >> thank you, larry. larry: best of luck, coming up president trump signed an executive order to keep biological men out of women's sports. we'll talk about it with alabama senator tommy tuberville when kudlow returns, thank you, scott bessent. i bet you can buy the whole team new cleats

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the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. larry: no more biological men in women's sports, a big signing today by trump, joining to us talk about to balabama senator tommy tuberville.

>> it is so much happening. it was a great day, we had a lot of people there executive order of putting a stop to it we have a permanently do it, i have a bill to protect women and girls in sports act, hopeful to get it on floor soon, no reason in world why men and boys to be able to participate in women's sports, it is wrong and dangerous, a great day we got it done. larry: senator tuberville, how are olympic committee look at this resolution? will they abide by it or fight it? >> you have term, that is in l.a. next time. president trump mentioned that. oolympic committee two

years ago decided to let each sport decide how they wanted to hand it, it, unfortunately the boxing decided to let men participate it was terrible. president trump may g get involved with this in olympic committee knowing him. larry: ironic to me, politically, for all of these years, going back to i'll say gloria steinem and 1970s over 50, the democratic party said it was party to defend women. okay? but in recent years, as you well know with trans movement and biological men now allowed to play in women's sports, and et cetera, all of a sudden democrats in favor of that and are wrecking women's sports. and treating women athletes, female athletes unjustly, do

they see the stupid ti ity of the whole story or not? >> they see it they just don't admit it they lost the middle class, they have no support any more, they have no voter, they had to go over top with climate change, and all nonsense at borders with illegals, everything that are involved in different things that the republicans and conservatives here in america really believe in. so, they have you know, they just gone off the deep end with this, go back to what your question, they lost their base. they are not going back, they really got stow far out -- so far out, even democrat, a lot vote ared if president trump because of this one issue that democrats kept pushing. >> i think it is extraordinary, one more topic here. president trump talking about gaza. about the united states

clearing out gaza, taking over gaza. working with other countries in the middle east. perhaps saudi arabia and others, private enterprise, to rebuild a new gaza. i know you followed this keenly, what you can tell us on that. >> well, first, nothing positive is really happened in 45 years. you have to think about that it is not working, whatever is going on, president trump is trying to put a fix to this problem you have people in gaza now, what do you do with them? saudis are not taking them, they are not going to jordan, we have to do something to get them to take a few of them, but what you do, that how do you separate the palestinians from the hamas. you are moving one problem to another, i can understand what president trump is wanting to do to clone t -- to clean up this here, is looking ar a possible way to

answer this problem this say huge problem. he is only one that has come up with something different. steve witkoff today talked to us about this. a problem that president trump is looking for help from all country around to get a solution. right now, he is only one that come up with something different. might work, might not. larry: but there is no question he will clampdown on iran? and there is no question, not only will sanctions be tightened and oil turned off as much as possible but also no nuclear weapons iran cannot have nuclear weapons, i don't know what he is -- president elaborated on this more not. >> 100 percent, that can't happen, iran cannot get a nuclear weapon, they are probably getting closer and close, we have problem with all their people they

support, houthis, hamas, the people up in hezbollah. in lebanon it has been a total problem with these people. at the end of the day, we have to stay with president trump, keep him in a situation where he has a chant -- chance for answers to this let's stay with him give him an opportunity to do what he needs to do to get a solution to what is going on in middle east. larry: senator tommy t tuberville, thank you. >> thank you. larry: moving oin dc, dan clifton, partner head of policy research. the best washington watcher, i said you were a cold figure but now are grown a super star figure. so, you wrote about this morning in "wall street journal" caught up with you this afternoon, we talked about it the top of show, i don't care for the idea, a 5 year tax cut extension.

-- why? why? cbo just admitted, that the revenue came in almost 2 trillion dollars higher than they predicted. >> why is no one reporting on that. >> yes. larry: that it my opening riff, now they if we cut taxes revenues will go down, they just acknowledged they would go up. >> let me say, there is a razor thin majority in house of representatives, you have moderates who are kn not vote for spending cuts and conservatives who want great spending cuts you know spending is 23 3% of gdp, covid came, spending came up it has not come pulling down, reconciliation bill is an opportunity to get more spending cuts in there. trying to turn the rubik's

cube and fix out how to get there, right now house cannot put together a plan to get 10 years tax cut, they are worried if they don't get a plan this week, the senate will take away one big beautiful bill and do a two bill strategy. larry: those members, you say house. >> house yes. larry: to me, look, don't get me wrong, i want to limit government. spending as share of gdp 24% almost 25%, should come back to 20%. we should cut a couple trillion out of the budget excluding big entitlements over next 10 years, i'm for that. however, seems to me like some of the house members are abandoning the laffer curve, that is what brought us here every success this g.o.p. had with lower taxes and better economic growth, you could -- i'll include john f kennedy.

>> i agree. larry: kennedy and reagan, even little bit bill clinton who signed on to a capital gains tax cut, then to donald trump. they are abandons can laffer curve at their own peril. >> you know i believe that lower tax rates equal higher revenue, i spend my life trying to show everyone that is the case. >> that is how i met you. >> i learned from you the master. larry: grover norquist in the beginning years ago. >> right, now but, i am talking to the members, trying to understand about they are coming from i don't think they have abandoned laffer curve on the right, they say, we need more spending cut, we need to see what elon musk is doing with doge, and see what scott bessent wants to cut on fraud he just -- just said about fraud on the show, and can we put it to a package? the tax cuts expire on december 31. i think we want a bill done before july 4, so there is no overhang. but we time to get this

right. and i wouldn't just throw cold water on it right now, this is first step, moving something through the house. and that process will play out overtime. if we get big bang tax reform, thattt with lower spending, america will boom. >> we should go for that.co >> mp - first! - first! [kids bickering] [kids bickering] hold on, guys! ♪ first! today, we're first together. we love you, mom and dad. thank you so much for making it possible. and now you can finally put yourselves first. vanguard. fifty years of helping you invest for all of life's firsts. ♪

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york. i just want to step back. , i don't know couple three weeks ago, it didn't look like mr. trump would get all of his noms through or pete hegseth would get through or tulsi gabbard. >> tulsi gabbard they have not voted yet, but it just kind of feels like mr. trump is having his way with the senate. >> it is true, big reasons he is, is he has 53 seats, if he had 51, it might be more difficult. we should say that matt gaetz thing did not happen, after this, when people look at pete hegseth, look at tulsi gabbard, at robert f. kennedy jr. they thought they are not all going to make it hegseth thing was closer than i thought, 50/50, had to break tie from vice president, now we have the republicans were worried about the committee votes for tulsi gabbard and robert f. kennedy they got through. and it does not appear that

there are three republican senators in whole senate who will vote against them. so, i believe it was this morning jason miller, top aide in trump white house said this day in 2017, senate had fully confirmed four trump nominees and now it is more than 11. larry: you know, it interesting, does john thune get credit for this, or is it has someone put it to me yet, president trump repeatedly talking to senators, go doing capitol hill, unafraid to get involved. and with his super energy all of the time? >> thune gets some credit, trump gets more. the most credit goes to the 2024 election. every single republican senator comes from a state that trump won. but susan collins in maine,

even in maine trump won that diff district, all that ares came from state that trump won, they look. they say my voters voted solidly for donald trump, will i nuke one of his premier nominations, i don't think so. larry: now, at least partly the action will turn to the budget and taxes and fiscal policy and things they look difficult if house we hear different rumors about 5 year extension not 10. what do you hear about this? will president trump have toick exercise same amount of influence he hut put to senate for nominations, he has to go to house, so far i'm not hearing him retreat on any of his campaign promises. >> on this reconciliation one big beautiful bill or two, he has left to pubicly

up to congress so far. but problem in the house is when elise stefanik leaves, she will resign soon. the balance in house will be 217 republicans, to 215 democrats, that means you can't even lose one vote and fill win. on april 1, they have an election in florida, you will get two republicans members of house replacing gaetz andu wau and waltz. >> it will be tough. >> you know what happens in april. if gets warmer, and sun equipments out. comes on ut and snow melts. >> people have to pay their taxes. larry: that took byron york thank you. thank you. larry: coming up, we talk with wyoming si senator

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larry: joining us now welcome wyoming senator cynthia lummis, we appreciate it. you were in a debanking

hearing today. i want to go back, we have covered this a little bit on the show. debanking, this was biden regulatory boots on the banks conservatives, christians, oil loans, and crypto. was it -- can they blame biden? and now maybe the boots will be off their neck or is legislation necessary. >> certainly the bank supervision component of the fed was telling bank examiners that you could assess risk based on beliefs, what -- whether a bank president had con very conversations that were expressed there were controversial, that were in

memos we discovered, they were federal regulators unelected bureaucrats, going after bank customers choosing who could have a bank account, who could not, which businesses would have to go out of business because the little bank examiners did not like the, we know the government was part of it. we need to find out further when the banks themselves were a part or whether the debanking was directed by the executive branch of o our government, then we need to decide whether we can get foia to get -- >> freedom of information act. >> access to the fed. we -- whethery need to have 7 new people at the federal division on bank super vying confirm biden is at we know there is in inadequate

oversight of bank supervision f function at federal reserve. larry: they just went hog-wild. trump -- what troubles me, we won't solve it today, so many of bo board staff, they donate money to democrats. over 80 ber%, you have to ask yourself, you might need legislation at some point, to level the playing fold and stop this. >> that is what we're trying to find out now, we want to reveal and shine light on the fact that choke 2.0 was a real thing we'll figure out how to deal with it. >> great state of wyoming. >> thank you, larry. >> i'll be right back with my last word. those lessons are forever, and today i share them with all our employees.

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you may be missing. at hennion & walsh it only takes a second to schedule your free second opinion. so what's there to lose? speak to hennion & walsh. the second opinion people. [sofi mnemonic] can a personal loan unlock your ambitions? oh yeah. borrow up to a hundred thousand dollars to consolidate bad debt and save money for your next goal. take a swing at your kitchen reno... meant that literal.

or design your actual dream wedding. consolidate bad debt and fund all your ambitions with a sofi personal loan. goo sofi.com to view your rate. sofi. get your money right. larry: that's it for klow, thanks for watching, folks. (dramatic music) (cannons booming) (dramatic music continues) - forward march! (cannons booming) - here they come! how many hats do you see? - [soldier] it's the whole crown. - [pot commander] get ready, boys.