unemployment by a tick. rates follow and small caps will rise. liz: small caps we shall see. we had a big small cap lever yesterday and looking at markets and just a few seconds before the close, we do have the russell 2000 at the moment moving lower by about 10 points. jeffrey, wonderful to see you. >> thank you, liz. liz: here comes the bell, you guys. s&p and nasdaq look to dodge the bullet here moving higher at the moment. s&p 19 to the upside, nasdaq up 92. dow jones industrial carrying a lot of the loss, now down 127 points. tomorrow ahead of super bowl weekend, former saints quarterback drew brees and jason robins join me live, don't miss it.

larry: hello, everyone. i'm larry kudlow. they're going for four hours in the meeting and still haven't figured it out and fate of the trump tax cuts may well hang in the balance and we'll talk to wesley hunt about this whole story. hearing from art laffer and senator kevin cramer going to weigh in and senator eric smith helping us out as well and later in the show, senator bernie moreno of ohio saving the american auto industry. but first up, our own edward lawrence live at white house. edward, i would trust you to go in there and get a tax cut plan. you and i could sit down, edward, and be done in 20 minutes. what's taking them to long? reporter: you know what, i'm sure the president has ideas on the way this should go through congress and the congressional leaders are telling him, maybe we should look at some of this

as negotiation. i can tell you in the administration official telling me that meeting is still going on. and it's with house republican congressional leaders in the oval office and supposed to be two hours and pushing more than four hours and talking about what's in and what's out of a reconciliation bill in this absolutely in is ending trump tax cuts and the new treasury secretary, scott bessent in exclusive interview told you the trump tax cuts need to be permanent and the president said they should be permanent and listen to white house press secretary listing priorities today. listen to this. >> house republicans of five year extension of trump tax cuts and president trump want it is perp nathanial hackette. he signed a bill that -- permanent and would he sign a bill with a five year extension? >> glad you brought up taxes. let me bring my receipts. i like to bring the receipts. these are the tax priorities of the trump administration that the president laid out for members in that meeting today. no tax on tips, which is

obviously a very public campaign promise that the president made. no tax on senior's social security, no tax on overtime pay, renewing president trump's 2017 middle class tax cuts. again, these are the president's priorities and adjusting the salt cap and billionaire sports team owners and interest tax deduction loophole, tax cuts remain an made in america products. this is largest tax cut in history for middle class working americans and president is committed to working with congress to get this done. reporter: she did not say specifically the tax cuts need to be permanent. this is a negotiation as they go through congress here and representative andy harry, the freedom caucus chairman doesn't see a path to permanent tax cut withs the president, but see what kind of president he'll put on with the marathon meeting in the oval office right now, larry. larry: andy harris is a house member; right? reporter: yeah, house member,

republican from maryland and chairman of the freedom caucus. larry: i was checking. he wasn't elected president, was he? reporter: he was not. system of articulation larry: oh, okay. i just wanted to clarify that . i've been down here a couple days and lose my memory. edward lawrence, you never lose yours. thanks for your great reporting. folks, congressional republicans must not stop the trump tax cuts and that's the subject of the riff. larry: all of a sudden nothing but bed news from the republican group in the house for the tax cuts. senators talking about two or three budget bills that would put the tax cuts towards the back of the queue. this is very bad economics and very bad politics, and re7 may be suffering from amnesia about the economy. what was the number one issue in last november's election? and there were two components to

the economy. remember, last year inflation and affordability. in other words with bidenflation going up 20%, real wages from middle and lower income blue collar workers went down. mr. trump's successful coalition of working class voters was not based on race or gender or left wing culture issues. it was based on the proximate causety of income and get inflation down with lower income and less government spending and less money printing and, wait for it. cut their taxes. working class voiters could not afford to live in the biden economy. republican economic policies must give plenty of elbow room to working folks so they can fatten their wallets and easily afford the trump economy. and if the republican hangup is a bunch of failed economic

models from government bream counters like the republican offices and high end and fight it and revenues and trump tax in 2017 and increased by 1.5 to 2 trillion. depending how you count it. 1.5 to 2 trillion. revenues that go up and cbo admits closed to $2 trillion above their early estimates. it's in the weeds and gop mike crapo's policy baseline, which argues the making the popular tax cuts permanent, have not yet nor will in the future cause a loss of revenues. spending that right away. they should get spending down to scott bessent's 3% of gdp

deficits and lower debt to gdp ratio and laffer curve growth dividend from tax cuts will be huge. that's what history always shows. there's another reason why the gop should make all the trump tax cuts permanent. the president wants it. he was elected partly on the tax cut promise, and as white house spot karoline leavitt says today, the tax priorities of mr. let's go down. make the 2017 tax cuts permanent and no tax on tips, no tax on seniors, no tax on overtime pay. tax cuts for made in america products, yes, and then eliminate special tax breaks for billionaires, including sports team owners with a carried interest loophole on investment.

white, browns, asian, women, male. that's what e lekked him. republicans in the house and the senate must not stand in president trump's way. and that's the riff. i am graced here onset to have texas congressman and opinion maker and influencer mr. wesley hunt. >> thank you for having me on as always. larry: look, i'm saying the president won and he won on the economy. i'm not devoid or two and i'm offering some spending restraint, but putting the tax cuts last rather than first strikes me as a really bad idea and then, wesley, second one, shrinking the tax cuts, which is what they're talking about with

this five year r rigamaroll. that's die luting them and not permanent and there's no reason. >> you're correct and no tax on tips or social security and making the tax cuts permanent. this is the reason with why he won this election and this allows every day americans to have more money in their pocket to reinvest back into the economy to rejuvenate a dead economy that's been left to us because of president biden. it really is that simple. i don't understand why we can't just rinse and repeat what we saw with dtj and proceed. take the old numbers, add new numbers and add what president trump wants to do in terms of allowing every day americans to have more money in their pockets so we can actually live again and then just move on from there. this needs to be expedited and done as soon as possible. it really is not that hard. larry: you know, thank you for that, but i would say that sometimes even my good conservative friends and they're good conservative friends get

too hung occupy on cbo going for models and base baselines and yu don't have to cut all the spending at once. the tax cuts didn't cost money or made money. you do not. that is outmotive, congressional budget office and liberal left malarkey. they should not be intimidated by that. listen to what mike -- this basically, you know what, the existing tax cuts going back to 2017. paid for themselves and then some. they actually -- there's no cost to them. there's no cost to them. you can't say spending cost money but tax cuts don't or spending doesn't cost money and tax cuts do. then there's a pinball machine on permanent for more spending and higher taxes. gop has to get out of the box

and break out of that straight jacket. and president trump is quintessential thinking outside oturu box and a lot of colleagues don't want to hear and unleash american energy and allow the country to grow exponentially, see what happens and i know it's hard to plan for this because it's unconventional times and going to wave a magic wand and that much growth into the economy. we saw the most growth for those and going for them to see the history of the country and why can't we do them all. larry: don't forget the laffer curve. president obama used mr. crapo's current policy baseline to keep bush tax cuts in place and called it a permanent baseline and going to do the same thing

and he was a smart fella. we've exhausted that and you are a great service record and west point graduate and going for this, wesley hunt and improvement for month of january is 15-year high and going for shocking. >> it's amazing what you can see with the president that believes in herism going to -- heroism and imagine this, this only about changing. going to make america great again. there's 20 million people that entered this country illegally. they are having young people willing to want to fight president trump and the america first agenda. going 20 years in baghdad. i love the faces of young people

reinvigorated spirit. it happened in just the last two monarchies and amazing for that paradigm shift. larry: you're fellow veteran and combat pete hegseth running the defense department might have something to do with it. you're a west point grad and reading in the paper today, west point is basically scrubbing itself of all its dei programs. >> yes. larry: top to bottom. do you approve and heard about it? >> i've heard a few things about it and saw a few things flaker about some clubs that are also being scrapped. going for them may not be again and going for them and that's in the country and that's our diversity. i don't want to see people being hired or trained and training

for them being changed going for them. going to celebrate the difference and having it in the country as black man sitting next to white man here and having it in common, we're all americans the culture is celebrating and going for them. larry: last one, we spent too much time if there are, usaid flawed programs and going extremely flawed and i love this story now and turns out that the left wing magazine or whatever is, politico, media outlet was getting money from usaid. getting money to basically defending the policy and the range of this discussion and they got something like 8 million and wrote up they got 35 million and my question is, not just why would a left wing media outlet and given them at all. >> going to break down the pub bureaucracy for the past 20

years and coming to an end and thank god elon musk is looking a the this thing and he's running businesses and looking at his bottom line and look at balance sheet and say, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. not just like every other ceo but everyone with their own personal financials and doing a deep dive and plot and tax pay ere dollars and going for them and it was wonderful how many companies and taxpayer companies going for the united states. why are we behaving this way? larry: by the way, $8 million in politico didn't make it. damn thing is still unbelievable. generic point is having rallies and getting excited and raising voice and he's doing a great job. >> he's doing the right thing. larry: thank you. sir.

>> always a pleasure. larry: always a pleasure. folks, coming up, getting started and we'll continue this outrageous usaid political story with senator eric schmitt onset when kudlow returns. remember, catch us, kudlow, monday through friday at 4:00 p.m. here on fabulous fox business. and for some reason can't catch us at 4:00, for heaven's sakes catch your favorite 9-year-old and dvr the show and never miss a handout to politico. which is still a wreck no matter how much money they have.d? ♪ m i headed? am i just gonna take what the markets gives me? no. i can do some research. ya know, that's backed by j.p. morgan's leading strategists like us. when you want to invest with more confidence... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management only the servicenow platform puts ai agents to work across your company. they deal with the small stuff that bogs you down. agents like secret agents?

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larry: all right, joining us now, missouri senator eric schmitt right here onset. senator, thank you ever so much for doing this. i just to want go through this politico story. somehow politico denies everything. where are the rumors copping from? usaid either helped them with subscription money and helped them stay in business, politico, or some estimates say not $8 million but $34 million in change and president trump talked about it today saying they were paying politico to toe the parly line, the democratic party line.

>> by the way, it's very much the toe the company line and regime narrative and don't look to far. spreading money around to get narrative and going to get political thing and as crazy as it is going for them and trans comic books and trans operas and going for them and this is insane and this is the fight we want, larry, i love they're running around and continuing to talk about this and people have been waiting for this kind of reform in government and accountability at the federal level and do it now. larry: federal government hasn't been audited since 1940 or something. the fact that liberal democrats

and left wing democrats are holding rallies and hanging elon musk in effigy i find to be a wonderful thing. shows you're doing a great job and president trump >> moving forward with the reconciliation package and dealing with all things tax related and salespeople support that. people support that. if you're abled bodied for people needing the help and most believe in you're able to with work, go work and supposed to be a temporary, especially the snap program and same deal. >> same deal and any job benefits? larry: able-bodied, get back to

work. work. this is bill whether i know ton and newt gingrich. usaid is the tip of the iceberg and there's a lot of fraud and because. it's the tip of the iceberg and this is a real important moment for 24 cycle all about disrupters vs. the establishment. larry: trans-they're talking about the cdc and least transparent operation in the history of the earth from the tony fauci days. there's a lot of stuff we don't need and elon musk, 'em not changing policy so much as he's trying to reform and improve

efficiency and sounds like a cliche and talking trillions. >> right, this is putting meat on the bones talking about administrative state getting out of control. this is actually what that means. these people are unaccountable and work in agencies you've never heard of and issue a guidance letter and a rule that acts as a law and congress never passed and could destroy livelihood and take liberty. look no further with a vaccine mandate and dollars and cents attached to bureaucracy that have lost their way and going rogue and president trump we have the ability now to identify this waste and let's go after it. i think that's the thing. larry: this stuff going into whatever budget deal going to pick up here. savings from this. going for them and tax cuts have to go in early and till the end of the year going them and going

for them to complete money going for the don't need $5 trillion going for them and going for the house and going to basically have the trump tax cuts extending them to cost and it's cost free and mike crapo and your thing is cost free and it's going with cbo and they were cbo just saying oh, we missed by $2 trillion. 1.9 trillion and going with 1.9 trillion in revenue and that's why i saw that. >> this leads to growth and all the people screaming the sky was falling in 2017 and going back to just the 2019 budget going

back and taking 5 trillion with a surplus and talking 6 trillion and the point is if we just went back to spending levels of just a few years ago and going for them and budget surpluses and we have to re-orient it and going to re--- reorient it and i'm going with spending. larry: i'm good with that. synergy home they pay for themselves and this is a opportune time to reduce our spending as well. larry: i got to -- i've always ped to reduce spending, i do. i want to reduce and like to grow the economy too. can you help me out, one last thing. panama. i read senator rubio going to panama.

panama it's going with the chinese influence and panama and breaks neutrality act going with the canal coming over and what's going on and anybody know and we're going to let china continue to do what it's doing, which is bad? >> we can't. president trump seemed very clear and secretary rubio was there his first trip to make -- put an exclamation point on what president trump was talking about. i have a senate resolution and the senate should speak about that and after all, the senate approved this treaty in the late 1970s that gave away the panama canal, which was a mistake. however, the one thing we got out of that, larry, was a promise of neutrality. we didn't give the panama canal to china. it was given to us and truth is china controls both parts on either end of the canal. they can turn them on and off like they do with other belt and road initiatives around the world and surveillance equipment on cranes that are there and we move military goods and ships through that canal in about 54%

of our commerce runs through that place. it's in the core interest of the united states of america to make sure it's neutral and can't guarantee that, all options are on the table and breaking the deal. larry: it's going to continue and you remember who opposed panama canal with all his heart and soul. >> who was that? larry: ronald reagan. >> ronald reagan did. in the 1980s. larry: today is ronald reagan's birthday. you're ten times smarter than i. >> i was 3 years old when the panama thing went through but yes, i was a son of the reagan revolution. >> i was 29 when i became his assistant omb director. just saying. senator eric schmitt, wonderful to have you on. terrific stuff. folks, coming up, treasury secretary scott bessent told me last night that the trump admin vagues is going to use -- administration is going to use current policies and believe it's going to be cost free and

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>> if we don't get the tax bill done, this is pass fail for our side of the aisle, and we'll have the largest tax hike in history. we'll bring down inflation and cut regulations and we're going to get the tax cut, the goal it still for them to be made perp nathanial hackette and as you just said, we're going to use current policy scoring. larry: pass, fail, and current policy scoring. scott bessent here last evening on the show. joining us to talk about it all, north dakota senator, mr. kevin cross-claimer and ohio state

bernie plano. moreno. senator crapo's idea that it's current policy and means for viewer, i don't have to go to the baseline but trump tax cuts paid for themselves and they did then and they are now and they will in the future. barack obama used the same one for the tax c cuts and that's sp fretting about it. is that true, really? >> that is true. i don't know many, if any, maybe one or two republican senators that don't agree with that. largely because mike crapo is a man of honor and understands this stuff better than the rest of us, but the explanation is clear, secretary bessent is exactly right. if we fail, it's a 4.3 trillion

tax increase. cbo scores the other way. they score that as revenue and interestingly when it comes to spending, they use current policy. l they don't score the spending increase but the tax cut. >> they're off by $4 trillion last time. only that. larry: only that much. they admitted yesterday, 1 point 1.9 trillion, actual revenue, call it 2 trillion, above their original estimate zen years ago and admit that had and doesn't cause them to change their models. i still want to wait. i don't think waiting is a good idea. it maybe that the house has to get through what it has to get through, let's go for one, big,

beautiful, reconciliation bill. don't wait. jaire i'm not hung up on the how. i'm hung up on the why. at the end of the day, the voters expect us to move at 100 miles an hour and the president is moving at 700 miles an hour so congress has to catch up a bit. if it's 18 bills or one, at the end of the day, we have to secure our border and unleash american energy and fund defense and peace around the world and lower the size and scale. larry: after all, just the thought, i'm going to be a little cynical. don't take it personally. you weren't elected president, you weren't elected president and i wasn't elected president and others in the house not elected president. the guy elected president is donald trump. he wants the tax cuts now. he's out there, he has press spokesperson karoline leavitt said as much today. they're in this, god knows what they're talking alaska. it's what he wants. why not give it to him? >> larry, president trump needs

to become whip trump and needs to go over to the house republicans and explain it really simply and i think he can get what he wants. larry: did a good job on the nominations. >> very well and finish it off hopefully in a matter of days, a week or two and he'll have cabinet and same to this and needs to get the house lined up and they don't feel the same way that we all feel right here. and more. larry: are you surprised how the nominations have gone and how well? on a seasonally adjusted exclusion, i made this up. it's what i do and go along. >> jd vance making a lot of

calls and every republican i hope understands that on november 5, it may hurt some of their feelings, the person that got the mandate was president trump. larry: right. >> in my case, he won ohio by 11 points. no human in history has ever gotten as many votes as donald j. trump on november 56789 at the end of the day, every voter got his agenda and republicans better remember that. lauren: rumor art laffer is out there in the either zone. arthur, bringing you in with the two very distinguished senators, president trump wants tax cuts now and laffer curve worked as it always has and cbo admit that had revenues came in to 1.9 trillion hotter than years ago and current policy and it's permanent and get it done and you don't have to score it -- new scoring every year and what

do you think about that? he won, trump won. it's a political matter, okay. start the economy and engine of opportunity and working class coalition and souled get it. he won, arthur. >> he won and it was amaying what it did for poverty and poor and high norty and disenfranchised and loyest unemployment rate and fell in the forth quarter of 2017-2019 and tax revenues rose by more than in the prior two years. so it's been a win win win win and being extended and permanent should be discarded immediately and these tax cuts restored permanently in the u.s..

larry: art, when they ignore your curve and they ignore the benefits of tax cuts and they lose. i fear by postponing it now for whatever budgetary reasons or ones you come up with, ignore the laffer curve and going to ignore the positive revenue impact again and going to get clobbered politically. this is a what history shows, arthur. >> yes, it is. it's not just the republicans, larry. if you'll remember, john f kennedy was the one that invented the laffer curve in the 1960s. he did it and said it would raise more revenues and it did raise more revenues under kennedy, especially on the highest income ownerrers. they did it -- earners and should be called the kennedy curve and called the laffer curve. but the democrats should embrace

this because this was brought into policy by the democrats and it's just wrong. larry: i wrote a back on those one time. >> you sure did. it was great. you did a great job on that. larry: senator moreno, happy to have you on. you want to generate, resuscitate and rehabilitate the automobile. with that in mind, you'd favor tariff diplomacy. >> we make 4 million cars in canada and mexico sold here in the united states of america. the impact on dayton and youngstown and lorain and toledo is devastating and these communities were gutted and great industry cities with good, high paying american jobs. we shipped them to mexico. we have to reverse course.

we won world war ii. because in the midwest we made a lot of things really fast. >> is there one thing that sticks out in your mind that will help these communities? larry: there was an article from the national bureau of economic reservice connected and have it's a big deal and lefty academics that came to the clock cross-examination that bringing china -- conclusion that bringing china in and allowing them trading and had high, high tariffs and clobbered industrial midwest and very liberal academics but they did incredibly granular homework on this. that's why the whole thing ring as bell with me. >> i was presiding in front of the senate listening to a lot of democrat nonsense.

for a second, i thought maybe itunesed into canadian government tv. and t they were advocating for canada and i'm like you're senators in america and we have to protect canada and canadian companies. no, we have to protect american companies and american workers. larry: senator cramer, what do you think? what's president trump's next move on the tariff front? think is goes to universal tariff? really interested in the universal tariff and 10 or 15% and raise $500 billion and use that to cut taxes. >> i'm not an expert and at 10-15 universal tariff works because i think in a lot of cases, the nation's themselves absorb it. when he intuitively understands as a business guy and negotiator is leverage. i tell my canadian friends, that i love very much. they're our neighbors and talk to them every day. they're 41 million, we're 341 million people.

hi understands that and i think once you level that to bernie's point, we can have an honest, free market discussion on where things are made and supply chain and a north american continental plan and all those things and first level the playing field, and that's what the tariffs mean. larry: the export ores pay most of the tariff and currency changes and dollar goes up and currency going down and may wind up paying vast majority of the tariff and if we can rebuild our industrial base and our industrial military base, this is why i think trump's making a lot of sense. >> yep, but also, larry, we have work force challenges and ai and automation and a merit-based or skills-based policy for immigration and legal immigration, we can make it work. but level the playing field. larry: art laffer, you out there? one more for you, real quick, 30

seconds. >> still here, larry. universal tax. >> i think we should do the tariffs -- excuse me? larry: go ahead. >> we should do a flat mo tariff and use it to cut the taxes, larry. i would like to remind senator moray reno and i'm a buckeye and happy with moray reno and hop has personal taxes that mean you have a real problem with producing products in ohio that you don't have in tennessee. we have a lot of auto production in tennessee because we're at zero tax state. ohio needs to become a zero income tax state as well. larry: he grew up in ohio. >> amen to that. amen to that. stay tuned, we're going to make that happen. if anybody's watching, ohio is a much better place to do business than tennessee all day long. larry: all right, i'm going to jump right out of that one, senators. bernie moreno, we thank you and kevin cramer, thank you, and art laffer. coming up, kellyanne conway and katie pavlich, each kudlow, stick around.

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is fecially befun. their opposing religion and larry: where he have kellyanne conway and k katie pavlich, ladies, we're ruining a little short but more evidence directly talking about the importance in strength of faith and god and religion. they oppose religion and god. why is he going there? >> well, president trump is going there and because he said he wants to be known as peace maker and unifier as well and thanked god and devine intervention for saving his life from that asis sin's bullet --

assassin's bullet in butler, pennsylvania, last july and recognizes as president of the united states our founder, very founding was to protect the church from the state not the other way around. people came from england because king george would not allow them to practice religion the way they wanted and the whole idea there's secularists ripping god out of the square and documents and offering us their thoughts and never prayers anymore and that's so problematic and speaking of tax cuts and don't forget they double the child care tax cut and have charitable contribution deduction helping a lot of religion institutions and spirituality on the rise among gen z and so is religious based attacks on halls of campuses and congress. that has to stop. larry: i don't think you can have a healthy country without

religion. william f. buccally a mentor and deer friend ta talked and wrote about it and people forgot about it and religious liberty is part of it too. >> i have a signed copy. to kellyanne's point, our heritage is a religious one. founding fathers and men and women that founded the country were very religious people and it's part of the fabric of what it means to be an american, but for president donald trump and his faith has been strengthened after all of the events of last year and the journey he's been on not just surviving the assassination attempt but back in the white house for a second term and love today he got there and said they told me i could do it on skip. skype. i come here every year and not skypeing it in and showing up to that crowd. and he will continue to do so. larry: i apologize to both of you, we need to pursue this

more. you're both great friends and we'll have you back this. is part of the golden era of america that god is with us and faitgoodh is with us.le i'll bte back. might better support us all. better questions. better outcomes. patients who have sensitive teeth but also want whiter teeth they have to make a choice one versus the other. sensodyne clinical white provides two shades whiter teeth as well as providing 24/7 sensitivity protection. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf.

so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. larry: all right, sources say there may be a tax cut deal. they may be much closer to a tax cut deal and after all today is ronald reagan's birthday and he would be very happy to have a tax cut deal, who's that guy with reagan? elizabeth macdonald will have to identify that gu