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washington, d.c. president trump is in a crucial tax cut and budget meeting, with all kinds of house leaders, they are going for over 4 hours today. i fire that fate of trump tax cuts may hang in the balance, just a moment we'll talk with house leader wesley hunt about this story. we will hear later from art laffer, and senator kevin cramer and senator eric schmitt and later bernie moreno of ohio will tell us how to save american auto industry, our own edward lawrence is live at the white house. i would trust you to go in there and get a tax cut plan. you and i could sit down edward and get it done in 20 minutes, what is taking so long. reporter: i am sure president has some ideas on way this should go through congress. congressional leaders are

telling him maybe we should look at this. this meeting is still going on with house republican congressional leaders in oval office, it was to be just two hours, now we're pushing more than 4 hours, they are talking about what is in and out of a reconciliation bill. in this absolutely in is ending trump tax cut and n treasury secretary scott bessent said they need to be permanent. this is pressing secretary listing priorities. >> house republicans, a 5 year extension of trump tax cuts, president trump wants it permanent would he sign a 5 year extension bill. >> i like to bring receipts. these are the tax priorities of trump administration, president laid out for members, no tax on tips.

no tax on seniors so social security no tack on overtime pay -- no tax on overtime pay, renewing company 2017 middle class tax cuts, adjusting salt caps. and close carried interest cash deduction loophole, this is largest tax cut in history are in middle class working americans, president is committed to working with congress to get it done. reporter: she did not say specifically to be permanent, they go through congress, and representative andy harris, freedom caucus chairman said he does not see a pa path to permanent tax cuts. larry: edward lawrence, harris is a house member? reporter: yes, house member, republican from maryland,

chairman of freedom caucus. larry: i was checking, he was not elected president, was he. reporter: he was not. larry: okay, i just wanted to clarify, that i have been here a couple days and lose my memory, but you never do, can thank you edward lawrence congressional republicans, must not stop the trump tax cuts, that is the subject of the riff. all of a sudden, nothing but bad news out of republican congress regarding tax cuts some people in house talking about a 5 year extension. senators, you talking about stw2 or 3 budget bills putting tax cut at the back of the queue, this is very bad economics and politics. republicans may suffer from amnesia about the economy. what was number one issue in last november's election? and there were two

components to the economy remember? last year, inflation and affordability. with bidenflation up 20%. it was based on income. two ways to fatten middle income wallets, less government spending and less money printing and cut their taxes. supply side policies always political and economic winners, working class voters could not afford to live in the biden economy, but republicans economic policies, must give elbow room to working folks so they can fat e fatten their wallet and afford trump economy if republican hang up is a bunch of failed

economic models from government bean counters like the cbo, g.o.p. should stand up on its hind legs and fight it revenues after trump tax cut in 17 increased by 1.5 to 2 trillion dollars. revenues went up, now, even cbo admits this was close to to 2 -- trillion above their early estimates it seems our arcane in the weeds, g.o.p. should use senator m crapo's policy baseline, that argues making popular tax cuts permanent have not yet more will in the future cause a loss of revenues. so they don't have to cut 4 or 5 trillion in spending right away. yes, they should get spending down to scott bessent's 3% of g.o.p. deficit and -- gdp deficit,

the laffer curve growth dividend from tax cuts, will be huge. that is what history always shows. there is another reason why the g.o.p. should make all of the trump tax cuts permanent. the president wants it. he was elected, partly on the tax cut promise. and as white house ca karkaroline leavitt said today, make 2017 tax cut permanent, no tax on tips, no tax on seniors, no tax on overtime pay -- tax cut for made in american product and eliminate special tax breaks for billionaires. even presidential priorities high won the election by a near landslide, his working class coalition blacks,

browns, asian, young, w wwomen, males, that trump could rejuvenate the economy and generate unlimited access to climb the ladder of opportunity, that is what irk lurked him, republicans in the house, and senate, must not stand in pa president trump's way. that is the riff. got that out. all right. i am graced here on set to have texas congressman opinion maker and influencer mr. wesley hunt. >> thank you. larry: all right, i am just say that president won on the economy, the border too. i'm all for some spending restraint but putting tax cuts last strikes he as a bad idea, then wesley, last shrinking the tax cuts, that is what they are talking about with 5 year rigmarole,

that is -- diluting them, that means they won't be permanent. there is no the reason for that, i don't understand that. >> you are correct. no tack on tips, and -- no tax on tips and social security, this is the the reason why high won this election, this is allows everyone day americans to have more money in their pockets to reinvest back in to economy. to rejuvenate a dead economy left to us because of president biden. it really is that simple. i don't understand why we can't just just rent and repeat, add a few -- rinse and repeat, take old numbers, add new numbers, and add what trump wants to do in terms of allowing of day americans, to have more money in their pock pockets into live again and move on from there it should be expedited'st not that hard. >> thank you, sometimes, even my good conservative friends, they are good f

conservative friends get too hung up on when cbbo is saying or models and baselines, you don't have to cut all this spending at once. point number two pax tax -- tax cuts didn't cost money they made money, they are digging themselves into a hole. liberal left keynesian mar larky. listen to what mike, you know, the existing tax cuts to 2017, pay for themselves, then some, there is no cost to them there is no cost to them, you can't say spending costs money but tax cuts don't. or spending doesn't cost money. and tax cuttings do. then you have a pin ball machine on permanent until for more spending and higher taxes, g.o.p. has to get out of that box they have to

break out of that straight jacket. >> thinking outside of the box, we have to groy our way out. -- grow our way out, when we unleash american energy. i remember a couple yearses -- barack obama said you can't just wave a ma magic wand and have that much growth, president trump did we saw most growth in his first presidency then 4eu history. >> don't forget laffer curve. barack obama used mr. crapo's policy baseline to keep the george w. bush tax cuts in place. they called it a permanent baseline, it was a policy baseline, they should do the same thing now, obama was a smart fellow, we have

exhausted that, you are american hero, a great service record, a west point grad. couple things on this mr. wesley hunt. recruitment in month of january, is at a 15 year high. what do you make of this. >> shocking. it is amazing what you see with a president that believes in america. imagine this, only about changing how we feel and the motive about what it means to make america great again this is good, a reason why there are 20 million people that have entered illegally, and people want to be here, because we're in an amazing country, i have young people that are willing to fight for trump and fight for america first, what has been missing. someone that searched in combat, that served 20 years ago in baghdad, i loved seeing young people

reinvigorated to want to serve, it happened in the last two months, amazing. >> probably not peaked yet, my hunch your fellow veteran, combat -- pete hegseth runs defense department, might have something to do with it also. and i know you are west point grad, i am reading in paper today, west point is scrubbing itself of all d.e.i. programs. >> yes. larry: top to bottom. >> yes. larry: do you approve. >> i heard a few things, i saw a few things flash up about clubs scrapped, i much want to look at it and ask a few questions. larry: it may not be scrubbed the way you want. >> it may not be, i want to disassociate d.e.i. from ethnic clubs that are talking what makes country amazing, i don't want people hired or trained or training changed because of way

someone looks oh, someone's ethnic back yow background, but culture we grew up in should be celebrated and talked about. larry: usaid, a flawed program. >> extremely. larry: i love this story, turns out that the left wing magazine, politico, media outlet, was getting money from usaid, getting money to defended the biden administration policies, the range in this discussion, they got something like 8 million or someone wrote up 35 million, my question, not just why would a left wing media outlet but why would usaid be giving american media outlet money at all. >> the definition of breaking down bureaucracy that we've seen for past 20

years, thank god elon musk is looking at this, this person runs businesses, he has to lock at his bottom line and look at balance sheets and say yes, no, yes, no, not just like every other ceo, but also everyone else that does their own personal finances, a deep dive, getting rid of bloat of your taxpayer dollars, it should not be happening, elon musk said how many country tax their people and then send money to united states? why are we behaving this way? larry: you know, by the way 8 million to politico did not make it and good, damn thing is still unbelievable. gyp generic point, democrats are full throated attack on elon musk, they are have rallies, and raising their voice, that is how i know he doing a great job. >> he doing the right thing.

larry: wesley hunt. >> thank you. larry: coming up. we're continue to this outrageous usaid political story with senator eric schmitt on sit. you can catch kudlow monday through friday 4 p.m. on fabulous fox business. if for some reason you can't catch us at 4, just text your favorite 9-year-old and she will show you how to dvr the show and you will never miss a hand out to politico, which still a rag, i'm sorry, we'll be right back, i'm kudlow. m thinking of updatig my kitchen... —yeah? —yes! ...this year, we are finally updating our kitchen... ...doing subway tile in an ivory, or eggshell... —cream?... —maybe bone?... don't get me started on quartz. a big big island... you ever heard of a waterfall counter?... for everyone who talks about doing that thing, and, over there. but never does that thing... a sweet little breakfast nook. chase has financial guidance. let's see how you can start saving to make this happen. —really? —really?

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larry: joining us no missouri senator eric schmitt. i want to go through the politico story, somehow, they deny everything. where are rumors coming from usaid, either helped them with subscription money that helps them stay in business or some estimates it was not 8 million b 34 million, president trump talked about it saying they were playing politico to toe the party line, point is, what were they doing getting any money? from usaid.

>> millions for subscriptions, it very much of a toe the company line, regime narrative all of the time. during censorship enterprise we uncovered in my lawsuit, missouri versus biden, it is federal agencies working with big tech, spreading money to get their narrative. i think that little bit politico thing as crazy as it is you had mid millions of dollar t to go to sex changes in guatemala, this stuff is insane, i love they are running around talking about this, people have been waiting for this reform in government and accou accountability. larry: federal government has not been audited since 1940 or something. the fact that liberal

democrats are holding rallies, i think to be wonderful, it shows you that elon musk is doing a great job, they talk about now, medicaid, should is to be a health care program for the poor, if you are an able-body person, and you could work, why should you be subjected to work requirements. >> i think when we move forward with this reconciliation package, dealing with all things tax related, those are things we'll do to have work requirements, people support that. if you are able-body, they want a safety net for people who really need help, most people believe if you are able to work, you should go work. it was to be a temporary you know, the you know snap program, same deal. >> food stamps and snap. >> same thing. larry: this is bill clinton and newt gingrich, 30 years

ago. >> i think one reason they are losing their minds in democrat are "the guardians" of permanent washington. they are terrified of what will be exposed, usaid is the tip of the iceberg, a great place to start there is a lot of fraud and apuce, but tip of the iceberg we open books, this important moment for republicans to be on side of good government and be reformers, that is what 2024 cycle is about. larry: transparency, they talk about looking at the fda, federal drug administration or cdc, it least transparent operation in history in earth as we know from the tony fauci days. elon musk is not changes policy, so much as he is trying to reform and improve efficiency, it sounds like a

cliche over the years that is trillions. >> this is putting meat on the bones people talk about how the administrative state has gotten out of control, this is who that means, these people are unaccount an they work in agencies you never heard of, if they issue a guidance litter, it could destroy our livelihood, look no further than osha with vaccine mandates, seeing now dollars and cents to the bureaucracies that are rogue, this is what he talked about president trump, we have the ability to identify this waste, let's go after it. larry: this stuff should go in to what ever bask budget of deal we come up with. >> we'll get a lot of saving,. larry: my plea is, that tax cuts have to go in early. if you wait until the end of the year, you are -- corporations will not know, small businesses will not

know, individuals won't know. you want to burst through get a complete economic resurgence, you don't need 5 trillion in tax cuts right out of bat. as some of my conservative friends are saying, trump tax cuts, extending them is cost-free, i'm saying it cost-free, your colleague mike crapo is aing saying it is cost fry, cbo just said they missed by 2 million. >> that is why i -- >> therefore. >> this leads to growth, people who are screaming that sky would fall in 2017, revenues went up, if we went to 2019 budget where we spent about 4 trillion, if we did that, we would -- we're taking in about 5 trillion now, we would have

a trillion dollar surplus, point is, if we just went to spending levels, of just a few years ago, pre-covid we would have budget surpluses that is how we have to reoriented town. larry: i'm good with that. >> i agree tax cuts we can't get them expire. that would be a calamity for the economy, they pay for themselves but -- is a time to reduce spending. larry: i always want to reduce spending. i like to grow the economy too, you can help me one last thing. panama. i read marco rubio, secretary rubio goes to panama, and it seems to be all lovey-dovey but now panama are not gives us concessions to tolls i'm not reading that chinese will be removed from ports. at the atlantic and pacific

oceans, i think mr. trump is right to finger panama with the chinese influence, that breaks panama neutrality act put together, what is going on there? does someone know? >> we can't let china continue, president trump has been clear, good that ssecretary rubio was there his first trip. i have a senate resolution i think that senate should speak on it, the senate approved this treaty in late 19 70s this gave away the panama canal, that was a mistake, we did get out a promise of neutrality, it was given to panama not china, china controls both ports on either end, they could turn those on and off like they do around world, they have surveillance equipment on cranes there, we move military goods and

ships, so, it is in the coronational interest of u.s. of america to make sure that is neutral, if they can't guarantee, that all options on the table, they are breaking the deal. larry: this story will continue. >> yes. larry: and you remember who it was that opposed panama canal treaty with all his heart and soul, ronald reagan. >> right. larry: do you know what day it is today, ronald reagan 's birthday, not a quiz. >> i was 3 years old, when . >> i was 29. senator eric schmitt, wonderful to have you to set, coming up treasury secretary scott bessent told me last night, that trump administration is going to use current policy scoring they do believe that it will be cost-free and laffer curve works, we'll talk

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>> if we do not get the tax bill done, as i said in my sisenate hearings it is pass-fail and we'll have largest tax hike in history, cut regulations, and we're going to get the tax cut goal it still for them to be made permanent. as you just said, that we're going to use current policy scoring. larry: there you have it pass-fail and current policy scoring scott bessent, joining us to talk about this, north dakota senator mr. kevin cramer, ohio senator mr. bernie moreno, thank you so much.

senator cramer, you feel most of republican senators, buy into i'll call it mike crapo's idea, that it is current policy, that means for viewers, just means, that trump tax cuts paid for themselves they did then, they are now, they will in future. you don't need to score them as five trillion deficits, that actually, barack obama used the same convention, back in 2012 to keep george w. bush tax cuts, that is called current policy, don't score it stop fretting about it, really. >> true. in fact, i don't know many if any, maybe one or two, republican senators who don't agree. and largely because, we all know mike crapo to be main of honor, and he understands this stiff. but -- secretary bessent is right, if we fail, it is a 4.3 trillion dollar tax

increase. cbo scores, the other way, they score that as revenue, and interestingly with spending, they use current policy. larry: right, there -- true, they don't score the spending increases. >> no. larry: just tax cuts. i call it a pin ball machine on tilt. >> they are off by 4 t trillion last time. larry: they admitted it yesterday, 1.9 trillion, actual revenues came in call it 2 trillion above their original estimate, 7 years ago, they admitted that. that does not cause them to change their model, i don't want to wait, i think that waiting is not good. it may be that the house has to get through what is it will get through, if they can get a budget resolution. it looks like you parse through all of the baseline issues, let's go for it go for a 1 big beautiful

reconciliation bill, don't wait. >> i'm not hung up on how but the what, at end of day voters are expecting us to move 100 miles per hour, president is moving 700 miles per hour, congress has to catch up, if 18 bills or one. it is secure the border, and unleash american energy and fund defense and have police in world, and lower the size and scale of government. larry: yes that includes tax cuts. >> yes. larry: just the thought, okay i'll be cynical, don't take it personally. you are not elected president, you are not elected president, i was not irecoelected president. the guy was elected president was donald trump, he wants tax cuts now. he is out there with his press spokesman karoline leavitt said it, i know they are in there. god knows what they are talking about, why don't you give it to him. >> because president trump

needs to be whip trump and go to house republicans, and explain it, and i think he can get what he wants. larry: he it a good job on nominations as whip trump. >> i think he did very well. and we'll finish it off, hopefully in a matter of days. a week or two. and he will have his entire cabinet, and i think that same is true with with this he needs to get the house lined up, they don't feel the same way we all feel. larry: i think, i hope they will come around, bernie moreno are you surprised how nominations have gone how about. adjusted matt gaetz exclusion, go i along. but, he president trump hit a thousand on the rift. rest. >> and credit to john thune as well, helping to shepard this, jd vance is making a lot of calls, but look,

every republican i hope understands that on november 5 it may hurt their feelings person who really got the mandate was president trump, he run ohio by 11 points, no human in history has gotten as many votes as don't donaldon donald trump did on november 5. larry: there is a rumor that art laffer is out there somewhere. to bring you in with these two distinguished senators, president trump wants the tax cuts now, the laffer curve has worked as it always has, cbo admitted that revenues came in, art, 1.9 trillion higher than estimates 7 years ago, current policy, which means permanent. let's get it done. you don't have to score it new scoring every year. what do you think about this?

look, he won. trump won. a political matter. okay. he wants tack withouts right away -- tax cuts right away, start the engine of opportunity for his working class coalition, he should get it he won. >> yeah, he not only won but so did american people, with that tax cut and jobs act it was amazing what it do to economy growth of u.s. versus european union. it amazing for poverty, and poor and less educated, they had lowest unemployment rates and tax revenues rose not fell in 2 year period from fourth quarter of 2017 through third quarter of 2019 attack revenue -- tax revenues by more than prior two years, it has been a win-win-win. anything in the way of that should be discarded immediately, and the tax cuts should be restored permanently in the u.s.

larry: arthur, i don't know why, but as a general matter, i mentioned this last night, on my riff and the show, when the republicans ignore the laffer curve, they ignore your curve the benefits of tax cutting, they lose. they lose. and i fear that by postponing it now, for whatever budgetary reasons or whatever reasons you come up with, they will ignore the laffer curve again, they will ignore positive revenue impact again, and they will get clobbered politically. >> yes, it is. you know, not just republicans, if you remember john f kennedy was one who insinvinvented the laffer curve in 1960s, he said it would raise more revenue its did, under highest income earnings it should be called kennedy curve, it is not but the llaffer curve, democrats

should embrace it, it was brought into policy by democrats in 1960s but no they go the other way against their whole history, whole based knowledge. they are going against everything that is science. larry: i wrote a book on those kennedy tax cuts. >> you did. larry: senator bernie moreno. >> you and brian did a great job. larry: thank you senator bernie moreno happy to have you on, you want we resuscitate automobile industry, i would think thank you want too favor mr. trump's tariff diplomacy. >> we make 4 million cars in canada and mexico that are sold here in the united states the impact on dayton and you toledo we shipped them off to mexico we have to reverse course,

we won world war ii, because in midwest we made a lot of things really fast. that industrial capacity is a national security imperative that sports with auto industry -- 12 starts with auto industry. larry: is there one thing that sticks out that will help the communities? did you see in the "wall street journal" yesterday, this was an article about an economy study from national bureau of economy research, a big deal, it was lefty academics who came to conclusion that bringing china into the world trade organization, and allowing them normalization of trading, they had high tariffs, what they -- that is what c clobbered the industrial midwest. they did gran gr homework on this. >> i was providing in front of senate, and for second a

thought maybe i tuned in to canadian government tv, then they were advocating for canada. i am saying wait, you are senators in america. and they say we have to brprotect canada and canadian companies, we have to do production american companies and workers. >> senator cwhat do you think. he is interested in universal tariff, 10 or 15%. i don't know what you are hearing. >> mo at 10 to 15, universal tariff works, i think that a lot of cases. nations absorb on, he understands as a business guy, is leverage, i tell my ccanada friends. he understands that

leverage, i think once you level the playing field, then we have an honest free market it it is discussion about where things are made. larry: your point, a lot of work has been done on this exporters, say china, but the they will pay most of the tariff, then currency change, dollar goes up, their currency goes down, they may pay vast majority of tariff, if we could rebuild our industrial base and military base, it is why i think that trump makes a lot of sense. >> you h you havelize, realize one thing to holds us back workforce challenges, that is why where a.i. coming in we could make this work. but first level playing field. larry: art laffer you still there. one more for you. >> i am here.

larry: universal tax -- >> i think we should do tariffs. >> go ahead. >> excuse me. larry: go ahead. >> flat low tariff use it to cut taxes, i would like to remind senator bernie moreno, i am a buckeye, i am happy, he high -- ohio has personal taxes, you have a problem with produce could products in ohio that you don't have in tennessee, ohio needs too pe pe c. >> become a zero income tax state as well. >> if anyone is watching ohio is better to do business with. larry: i'm jumping out of that, senator bernie moreno, and senator c kevin cramer and art laffer thank you,. >> i'm kudlow stick around.

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i can tell you the opposite side, opposing side, they oppose religion and god. >> so let's sp bring religion back, bring god back into our lives. larry: that is important. joining us now kellyanne conway. katie pavlich. fox news contributor, ladies, we're running short. but, let me start kellyanne, more evidence direct let's talking about the importance and strength of faith and god and religion, and also pointing out obvious, too many democrats oppose religion and god. kellyanne, what do you make of it? >> well, president trump is going there, because he said he wants to known as a peacemaker and unifier, he thanked god, divine intervention from saving his life from that assassin

bullet, our founding was to protect church from state not the other way, we came here, people came hire from england because king george would not allow them to practice religion the way they wanted to. the whole idea you have secularists trying to rip god out of the public square out of some of our government documents, they always offer us their thoughts never their prayers, that problematic. speaking of tax cuts. they doubled child care tax credit, they have a ch but so is the religious based attacks on campuses and halls of congress, it has to stop. larry: bringing god and religion back in, i don't think you can have a healthy country without it, late william f. buckley, talked

about it, and wrote about it. socialism does not usually like god, religious liberty, i think it part of this. >> god and men at yale. >> to kellyanne's point, our heritage is religious one, founding fathers, were very religious people this is part of the fabric of what it means to be an american, president trump his strength has been -- faith has been ststrengthened after all of the events. i love today he got there and said, they told me i could do this on skype, i come here every year, i am not skyping it in, she shohe showed up. larry: i apologize to you we have run out of time. you are good friends and good sports, we'll have you back, i think this is part

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