worry about that. squawk jack i know somebody who is, it's charles payne. charles: okay. did they a come to me already? dagen: it's a minute early. jackie: sorry. [inaudible conversations] dagen: we can keep talking. >> we'll relate you get your pants on. [laughter] charles: i appreciate it. you know, i've been dreaming for the guys -- the day you guys could come to me a minute early. it finally happened, and i'm not ready. see you later. great show, by the way. good afternoon, i'm charles payne, this is "making money." the financial media has beenn a a position, all media, really, establish a narrative, stoke it, promote it and then promote if it as fuse. wow, look what's going on. such is the case for the do disdain, tariffs and anything that might friendship into the -- nip into the bottom line. retail investors haven't been

this pessimistic since 2023. now, ironically, professional investors refer to this particular survey, which i happen to like, the aaiietail survey, when it's this bearish, they think it's the ultimate buy signal. but on that front, the pros do have their own dilemma. they, too, see the stock market as being the most overvalued it's been since 2001. you can see this over here. it had a good run. let's face it, right? even those global fund managers in this survey, even if they wanted to buy a stock to, they really would have a hard time buying it because i've got to tell you something, take a look at their cash position, 3.5% cash, that's it. that's all they've got. they've invested a lot of money. this, ironically, is considered a contrarian signal. historically anytime we get below 4%, you can see the column here, the market for the most part has pulled back. 24% was the most back in may of 2011, although recently it's the

held in there okay. the last time it got this low, we had a 2% pullback. it's a contrarian signal. the fact is though the purists, right, they know that there's value in this market. and each day though the problem has been that the winners continue to attract the most attention. wall street has been really buying these, you know, recommendations. this is what wall street likes the most. most of the green here you buy on wall street. they love are energy, commune concern communication services and information tech. the reason they're buying is they actually think these sectors have the most to gain, that these are going to actually gain the most. again, energy they expect to be up 17%, technology, 16. health care, a 15%. so they're there. but what works out almost every single day? palantir, meta that, nvidia, super micro. they seem to go up every single day. this is where where i'm coming from on this, i blame a large part on passive investing, folks. you're looking at a table here

of 19 is 95-2022. and essentially where all of the action was coming from, back in 19 is 9 95 it was active management. 80% of the action was active managers. that's only down to 10% these days. meanwhile, what's really picked up, speculative the trading to to a degree, 17% from 10%, but different forms of passive investing. so why is this market so concentrated, why do they just keep chasing the winners, and how dangerous could it be. let's bring in phil blancato. okay, so back in '95 it was 80% active managers. now it's, all of this is a form of passive investing. some are saying, well, it's the traders. speck that tiff the trading, 17 percent from so 10%. where is this coming from? >> this is an easy one, buddy. way back when the 401(k) market was broken. people didn't know how to use it. the explosion of the online platte if forge people doing it

themselves, and the explosion -- explosion of etfs with it. money goes out of paychecks, goes right into the market and pushes all things up all the time, boom, because there's a relentless flow of money. charles: the money goes in a 401(k), and it buys the best with performing stocks. >> depends. it could be in a fund earning etf. large cap growth, it's going to buy the most heavily weighted stocks, to your point, those earning the most money. so the biggest names -- charles: the bigger names get bigger, the more attractive they get, the bigger they get. it's a virtuous cycle. >> exactly. charles you have to wonder if it ever goes the other way. >> it does because you mentioned nvidia. trading range. apple, trading range. meta's the only to one that's lifted off. because they're so expensive, you can't make a $3 trillion company $6 trillion overnight. unfortunately, because they've hit the top of their earnings power, they're struggling right

now. charles: another reason the market supposedly is struggling is tariffed. the market itself, as we know, has held up pretty good, but they put together a basket, a tariff basket, if you will, and those stocks, i guess, are more exposed to tariffs. they're down a little bit. you, though, you kind of say, listen, tariffs haven't been a big deal yet. >> they haven't. we're going to tariff countries, review them, we really haven't seen an impact on earnings, impact on the consumer, there's no crazy inflationary spike. sor it's more noise than -- so far it's more noise tan reality. this is a handful of companies, by the way. charles: today we've got the s&p a little bit lower, nasdaq a little bit lower. right now the small caps are up, but i think people will be surprised, folks. even though there's some red on your screen, there are far more advancers than decliners. look at this, 65% for the s&p, mid if caps, 72%.

so in a way when you hook at this market and if you're starting to look individually beyond just those names we talked about, this is more important than where the s&p closes today. >> without a doubt. only 26% of the stocks in the s&p beat the s&p 500 last year withment one of the lowest numbers ever. the rest of the names are catching up. we see it in mid cap, in value company. this is your opportunity, everybody. please take some profits and pivot. charles: so let's talk about the consumer for a moment. you've talked about the consumer. the consumer's been the basis of your town days for your value proposition -- town foundation consider foundation. wall street agrees are -- with you with. this is a 3-year high about how strong the consumer is, and yet we see inflation sticky, sticky, is sticky. are you now concerned at all a with the consumer? >> no. the retail sales number was weather and cars. the reality is, it's why i like american express. why? because we continue to pend at a

prolific rate. a trillion dollars in the fourth quarter. the labor market's really not hurting. a couple of spots, but to no great extent. the boomers continue to support the u.s. and the global economies. charles: the hot trade all of a sudden is europe. bam, a huge spike. we haven't seen that going a back to late 2022. this kind of stuff comes and goes. yesterday i did show where the concentration, there's a handful of names. >> much worse there. charles: are you putting money in europe? >> headlines and sentiment, i wouldn't touch europe. they have terrible regulations, they do not have the economic liftoff a. yeah, the stock stocks are relatively cheap, by the way, if you're in the s&p 500, 40 -- 40% is offshore revenue anyway. be late, not early. let's see if this -- charles: the dollar's drifted the last three weeks. that overall positive? >> positive for now. charles: as long as it's range-bound. >> and it's been that way for

six years. we really don't have to stress on. that's. charles: you talked about a american express. crowdstrike is one of those names that's got something for everyone. i know i have subscribers in it. it's a great stock except when it's not. [laughter] every now and then on earn, they do take a hit. is this a play on the cybersecurity name? >> as we expand our reach into a.i., we need to be protected. this is a company that's going to do double-digit earnings growth this year. these are names, it's not an inexpensive name, by the way, but it's the got tremendous growth potential. for this is a name you set it and forget it. charles: total energies, i don't know this one. >> this is a great name. they're in five continents. you know the pe ratio on the company is 7 -- charles: that what do they do? >> they make all types of oil and gas. they do use coal. coal, oil, nat gas, why like them, they're on five continents. what's the one thing you just

hit on on your slide? energy, energy, energy. 4% dividend. great margin and with the growth of energy globally and domestically, this is a great way -- charles: i love learning new name, my man. phil, really appreciate. all right, folks, the rise of the humanoid robot. you remember danger will robinson? identify watched them all. more -- i've watched them. we're going to tell you how to bank on the future next. ♪ ♪ (vo) what does it mean to be rich? maybe rich is less about reaching a magic number... and more about discovering magic. rich is being able to keep your loved ones close.

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how to keep 5g home internet from slowing down to learn more, during peak hours? their customers have to share a wireless signal with everyone in their area. oooh. you know, it's kinda like when you bring a really big cake for your birthday, and then there's only a little, tiny sliver left for the birthday girl. aw. well, wish her a happy birthday. happy birthday... -it's... ...to her. -no, it's me. have your cake and eat it, too. don't settle for t-mobile or verizon 5g home internet. get super fast xfinity internet you don't have to share. forty's going to be my year. charles: so i don't know about you, but i've been waiting my whole life, right? i've been mar a vellinginging at these humanoid robots. my next guest says the same way these large language models, you know, all the a 56789i. stuff had their aha moment back in 2022, there are very high odds that humanoid row bots will see the same thing in 2025. i want to bring in alpha target founder. you know, it's a crowded field.

you've got apple, meta, tesla, amazon, nvidia. i remember years ago a i thought honda was involved. i read somewhere there's going to be the like 640 million humanoid robots 2050, so it sounds like a lot of money could be made. how do you cut through all o that to find the best names? >> well, we've been following this for the last 12 months or so, and we're of the view that a tesla is in the pole position right now simply because they have various competitive advantages to capitalize on this opportunity. and we do think that humanoid robots is going to become a massive try, you know, 10, a 15 years out. probably one of the biggest industries in the world. because there are so many use cases. and tesla by far is in the leading position. they have the a.i. capabilities, they have the hardware, they have the manufacturing capabilities to manufacture the stuff at scale. if they have economies of scale, they've got a visionary ceo and

can raise capital at a very low cost. most of the start-ups are struggling to raise capital. they have proven that a they can basically manufacture hardware at a scale, their automotive division of tesla are. and they also have the the supercomputer which has been very useful. it's been designed for training large scale a.i. mod if pells. so they have the capability and the secret sauce to pull this together if they are basically focused, and we think this is going to be a ginormous industry, and tesla is our biggest position in our portfolio. charles: morgan stanley put together a really nice chart. i guess they call it the humanoid 100, and it shows all the a different niches that enable this. we've got out on -- it on the screen behind us. obviously, there'll so many components, could there be some sort of smaller area, smaller niche areas that we could also look at even beyond tesla? >> well, there are a number of things that you would look at, you know, there are some private

companies at the moment which are developing their own robots. there are a number of companies in china which, obviously, there is a big political risk, and i'm not so sure if americans and europeans would want chinese-made bots anytime soon. your investment universe if you are based in the u.s. or in europe is limited to the companies that are in the u.s. or in europe. and in this spacious as i said, tesla is the only public company which comes the mind -- [inaudible] the new bot -- [inaudible] so there's a number of smaller start-ups, but they're too maul at this stage, and they still haven't proven to the market that they have the capabilities to manufacture at kale. at scale. it's always easy to manufacture one prototype, but it's very difficult to -- [inaudible] that that's what elon musk has been saying for years. so we will have to to see at

what valuation these company cam to the market, what their technological know of how is at that point and their ability to raise capital, and we will make investment decisions accordingly. stuart: charles: before i let you go, i love your work on the broad market. you recently warned about buying hope. you talked about the risk of market darlings when they peak. you put a chart of names like celsius, for instance, which was a momentum darling and then, of course, it's completely crashed. the question though, of course, is when these names go up every day like right now, how does someone guard against that even if you're somewhat of seasonedded investor? if it's hard to resist, you know, you sell a stock at 80, it goes to 9, but two days later it's at a 85. you feel like you're going to keep missing these moves. >> we use teenage analysis which is -- stage analysis which was basically, you know, a call list by the legend market technician

besides ago. we've been -- decades ago. we've been piggybacking on his work to manage if our positions. [inaudible] if publishes research, and we invest our own money in the same companies. and we basically use stage analysis to buy that these companies, in these stocks at stage one lending period. and then we try to -- [inaudible] at a teenage two. and every -- at a stage two. you have big momentum, earnings -- so forth, valuation stops coming down when you get multiple compression, and that is the stage three. there is a tug of war going on between buyers and sellers and after a huge advance, you know, these stocks start going sideways in the trading range x. that's usually a warning sign to wait for the next big thing because, you know, the vast majority of losses for shareholders actually take place during the stage four decline which is when -- charles: right, right.

>> -- retail investors are buying. usually declines are very, very painful, and we try to avoid that at all cost. charles: yeah. those examples you put on that post are classic examples. puru, thanks a lot. obviously, tesla, we're watching it bigtime for these robots. appreciate it. all right, folks, remember, there are so many investing opportunities out there. and i write about them extensively even beyond this show. go to w treat.com. i put a lot -- wstreet.com. i know you're going to love it. all right, so america, i feel like we're heading to a golden age. this golden era under president trump. the question though is how do we get there. something rad are call has got to happen. jim bianco and judy shelton are here the talk about the role of gold and also 100-year bonds. wait until you hear the details on how we make the move to have a second is american century right after this. ♪ ♪

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charles: all right or, folks, as we enter america's golden era, that that means major resets. we know the trump team has been a whirlwind, crisscrossing around the globe, and it's put the the global elites on note.

j.d. vance left them quivering in munich. rubio's had face to face if meetings, and then there's president trump and really the early tariff concessions that he's made. the question though is what's the end game and? how do we get from here to there? i want to bring in bijanuary coe research president jim bianco. bretton woods iii which was outlined back in 2022, i want to get your feelings on -- i have his report here, and it's a city knop sit -- synopsis saying we are witnessing the birth of a new world order that will likely weaken the euro-dollar system and contribute the contemporary forces in the west. what does that have to do with the way president trump is trying to position america for the next 100 years? >> he's got an america first policy where he's looking at our trading partners and allies, and

he's believing they've had a free ride basically since the end of world war ii. and the rectify that, he's got three basic plans. plan one is tariffs which can be used as leverage or as a source of revenue. step two is the sovereign wealth fund that he signed an executive order to create, and they're look at create that -- looking to create that, and they said monetize assets, taking assets like gold that's valued at $4 the an -- 42 an ounce, revaluing it to $2900. and ten three is security arrangements -- step three. we've seen this with what president trump and j.d. vance are said in just the last couple of days. europe, you've had a free ride on security. the u.s. pays 70% of nato's budget. it's time that you start paying for your own curt, and they've been talking about -- security, and they've been talking about

potentially issuing $3 trillion of debt in order to do that, 5% of their gdp, but there's another idea that's been thrown out there. how about you swap your treasury securities that this you have right now for 100-year zero coupon bonds from us. these would be non-marketable bonds. they would have a value of about 13 cents today and would mature at $1 or $100 in 100 years. and that would reduce our debt, our deficit, and that would also bring down the dollar. look, if you to think this is a crisis, we have too much debt, we have too much borrowing, it requires bold thinking. and that's exactly what this is. charles: you know, jim, i love the way you laid it out here. we've got it on the screen. you've got tree things -- three things. tariffs, southern wealth fund, monetizing these -- sovereign wealth fund and this 100-year bond. and so, you know, i happen to love it. i think it's a greated idea. i guess -- great idea.

i guess this century, converting current treasuries, accepting a this. we've seen these europeans, they are just in a fit over j.d. vance's commen and so are a lot of folks in america, right, particularly on the left or in the media. will they feel bullied or are they just in no position at this point to even fight back? >> yeah. i mean, i think they might be in no position because the world has been bilaterallized. own -- within one side you've got china, russia, north korea and iran and on the other side you got the united states which has basically been pulling the load for 80 years trying to keep the world order together. and if they've been in the middle, and they haven't had to pay for it. so, yeah, will they feel a little bit bullied? sure, they might. but the argument is, this is an perk first policy. they've had a free ride. now it's got to change. and the american public voted for it. i think that that's the most important part, is that in the past they would try to appeal to the american media or they would

try to appeal to, you know, the american press to say look at this terrible idea which is something along the lines of america first. now that's not getting any kind of play. in other words, if trump pushes an america first policy, the public's not turning against it ear -- here, and the europeans are starting to realize that. charles: let's not forget who actually rebuilt europe after world war ii. we put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into the continent if over time. i love the way you laid are it out. jim, thank you very much, my friend. >> thank you. charles: ♪ happy a birthday to to you. ♪ happy birthday, mr. president -- ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ if. charles: so what could be more exciting than a birthday can celebration only from marilyn monroe? and a packed madison square

garden? well, my next guest says for the nation's 250th birthday, revaluing gold holdings, and that would be the best gift and could ignite the debate for trump's vision of a new golden age. let's bring in author the of good as gold, judy shelton. i'm not sure how much of the conversation you heard i had with jim, but he was talking about part of the way trump can get in this golden era going is to take advantage of our assets, and he actually mentioned gold. today goldman said, they make the case for gold going to 3300 by the end of the year. we have more gold than anyone else in the world, 8100 ounces. let's talk about it. if they were to value this at current market prices, what would the impact be? >> i think the impact would be to underscore the idea of american leadership and ushering in not just our own nation, but the well world into a new golden

age. and it could include having a level international monetary playing field. that's the only appropriate foundation for carrying out free trade and getting the advantages. otherwise tariffs have always been used to compensate for what trade partner countries do to depreciate their currencies in order to gain an unfair advantage against our own domestic producers. charles: talk about how, this idea that you've talked about for a long time that's germinated in your mind and also your writing, the gold-backed bonds. how would they work, how much money could actually be raised and where it really impacts us. >> if the united states treasury were to issue gold-backed bonds, and i'm even suggesting 50-year bonds that would mama cure on july 4th, 2076, that'll be our 300th anniversary, we know next year on july 4th, 2026, that's

going to be a huge date for this president who wants to really be triumphant about the american idea and how it enable as opportunity and economic freedom for individuals and to really celebrate our model of a free market economy by making the dollar as good as gold; that is, by offering a bond instrument that has a face value denominated in u.s. dollars but at maturity, at the auction of the bondholder, they could also be compensated in terms of gold. they would be able to say i would rather be paid out in a a pre-specified amount of gold than that dollar principal amount. and this could be, this could be the beachhead. this would be setting up a barometer of how much progress we make over the next 50 years toward balancing our budget, toward paying off our national debt and toward achieving not

the 2% fed if inflation if target which means deliberate debasement of our national money unit, but actually reaching zero inflation if. because at one time the dollar was as good as gold. charles: right. >> this would be the way of holding up a standard to show that we're really serious about being fiscally responsible and having our monetary policy coincide with our if are to-growth, supply-side approach -- pro-growth. charles: i've got less than a minute to go. you mentioned the fed. i'm not sure how they would react to this plan. it might be a moot point. i'd love to know who you think would be a good replacement for jay powell to help usher in this period that you've sort of been orchestrated here. >> well, charles, i did weigh in on the president's prior decision. and if asked, i would certainly give my opinion. i think it's very important to not put in a technocrat but,

rather, a true economist who appreciates how stable money has to be a pillar of a program that this also appreciates -- that this also appreciates the ability to increase national economic output, productive output by lowering taxes, reducing regulation, having smart energy and trade policy. stable money is the missing element. it's something that ronald reagan wanted to have, and he thought we will never tackle what he called crippling inflation until we find some way the back some part of the dollar with gold. and that is what the gold bond idea would do. it would start to set up that a marker toward explaining that stable money that works for everyone, not just people who own financial assets, not just big investors, big business, big government, but for everyone the same way. that's really the american idea, and that should be a fundamental part of the new golden age. charles: judy, i hope everyone

goes out and buys your book. thank you very much. appreciate it. great stuff. [laughter] talk soon. >> great, charles. thank you. charles: when is it appropriate, right, to bring up history in and we know everyone does it, but maybe it would help if you knew history. listen, i'm not talking about as some great historian, but everyone's using it and making a lot of mistakes. i'm going to bring in the power panel, and we're going to talk about why history is so important and why things have changed a lot are, so today with us. ♪ [cheerful music] [phone ringing] not all multimillionaires build their wealth the same way, you have... the fearless investor. the type a cpa. the boot strapper. the boot maker. hee-ha. but many do have something in common. we all trust schwab with our wealth.

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charles: all right, so this past saturday president trump made heads spin on the left when he used a quote attributed to napoleon bonaparte. of course, it raised the typical outrage of trump. wanting to be a king. it had me reaching though for history books. i already consider myself a history buff, but i marvel at how little i know. interestingly, we hear more quotes attributed to historical figures and events than, i think, ever before. but there are a couple of

problems with this. a, we may not like our heroes as much as we thought. liberals fell in love with the play hamilton, but i wouldn't be surprised if they start to fall out of love as they learn maybe some of these trump tariff policies are very similar to hamilton's. and then, b, what gets me is my other point, maybe we just don't know enough about a history to use it, certainly when we're trying to put others down. that must be the takeaway from margaret brennan, right, who linked the holocaust to free speech on sunday. i mean, golly. amazingly, brennan hadn't learned the lesson from al sharpton in 2023. >> one day our children's children will read american history, and you imagine if our reading james madison or thomas jefferson tried to overthrow the government so they could stay in power in. charles: did they try to

overthrow -- [laughter] okay. met me bring in the panel, "big money" cohost taylor riggs, national review staff writer caroline downey. golly, you know, the founding fathers, that was the biggest government overthrow in our history, right? king george. you've got to -- i guess it's one thing to misquote history if you're trying to make an observation, but when you're trying to put someone in their place, you better know what you're talking about, caroline. >> you've got to be super accurate. and if a lot of these pundits have a cursory, superficial if understanding of history. and, by the way, the founding fathers didn't know everything, but they were very clairvoyant r. charles: charles they were amazing. it's remarkable that they, i mean, you know, they were is so prescient. >> of course. we didn't have a constitution in the world before the usa created what we had. now, thin so innovative -- they were to to innote -- innovative

that that it has withstood, 3 400 years -- charles: they knew history. they picked off things from england, from france, are from famous philosophers. they were so well read. bob marley that says if you don't know your past, you won't know your future, and i agree with that. but here's the thing, we use presentism to criticize things that have happened in the past, for instance, slavery. it's tough to say to put our roles now in a place 200 years ago when everyone did it. there sometimes in your mind, taylor, where maybe something that was said or done in the past historically by a revered political figure might be tough to wedge into our circumstances now? >> yes. so this just brings up a good point. it was a year or two ago i was in my constitutional law class, and they talk about how you can read and interpret the constitution if you're on the supreme court. and there's the originalist, right, who reads the constitution when they're interpreting documents. interpreted at the time that

that it was made versus that that it's a living document, that it moves with us. charles: right. >> you have to read these laws and the opinions or whatever in the context in which they were made. slavery, of course it is wrong. but at the time when everyone had slaves, i think it was hard to understand that it was wrong if that makes sense. charles: it was remarkable that they created a document that allowed us to come out of it, right? >> yes. charles: and also the founding fathers probably couldn't have ever thought of this, caroline. apparently, doge has discovered that $4.7 trillion in treasury payments are missing critical data, almost $5 trillion almost totally impossible to trace. >> and this is very interesting because i used to think, well, the founding fathers could have never predicted that our government would have metastasized to to this mutated state, but they actually did. in the federalist papers, they warned us that the definition of tyranny was the combination of the executive, judicial and legislative branches. that is the administrative state

we have right now to a t. unaccountable to the public, a lot of waste and fraud. that's tyranny. so the founding fathers once again were sages on a lot of these matters, and i think we need to look to their example more and read those political theory documents. charles: one thing they're doing is going after that pppp money, you happy about that -- ppp money. >> yes. charles: i guarantee, that that money was spent. i saw a guy in a video, he was trying to sell a watch. he pent 10 grand on a watch hoping someone would buy it so he could get bailed out. >> this is part of the inflation problem to bring it back to economics is you have so much money chasing too few goods. charles: right. >> yes, it was government overspending, but it was the handouts. my husband even looked at me, he bought a watch during covid, and he looked at me, our income level we month be buying watches that a we're buying. charles: right. >> we don't make that a money, but we do because the government

keeps giving us money. it's this weird upside down world where i was able to spend well above my income, claw it back. all of that stuff, again, desperate measures. charles: sure. >> -- march 2020, that that first loan, absolutely to save small business, but the handout toes two years later, we didn't need it. charles: talk about upside down, there's an article in the atlantic calling the coming dem. contact baby busts. after trump won the first time, democrats stopped having kids. i mean, listen, i believe demographics are destiny. i want to see everyone have kids out there. >> you and me both. this shouldn't be a political question. we are far below the replacement rate as a nation, so both democrats and republicans need to be having children for evizational survival. that being said, i know why democrats are not doing this, it's becausef climate alarmism. they've been fed this paranoia that the planet's going to self-destruct, is they can't

have kids -- >> fine by me, if th don't. we can outvote them. charles: i just can't believe how much we're using a.i.. there's a thing in gallup that a says 31% of people have 5 products or more that they use every week, a.i.-enable ad. another 231% have -- 31% have 6. and apparently, we trust a.i. more than cpas to do our taxes. this is crazy. so they had chatgpt do therapy on couples, right, and they preferred chatgpt because it was based on five factors; they understood the speaker, they showed empathy, appropriate for the therapy setting, relevant for various cultural backgrounds and just something a good therapist would say. i mean, what do you make of this? trust it that much? >> trust but verify. i like them getting my first look at a my tax returns ask and having a cpa verify -- charles: would you go to chat

chatgpt if you and your husband had some problems? >> maybe9 not. [laughter] charles: is that too perm? if. >> he's watching right now. let's have a doctor, a. a i., review my cat scan -- charles: right. >> -- and then have a doctor confirm that the diagnosis -- charles: right. but i'm talking, caroline, the empathy. people said chatgpt showed more empathy than the actual therapist. >> that's hard to believe. look, i think people really like their personal relationship with their therapists, and i think if it's computer, maybe that kind of cuts into the idea of let's it down and you're going to be my friend. whatever. i think if it's innovative technology and it helps the therapy field and the psychology field, fine. but i'm ott not actually sure that people prefer this to the therapists. >> well, so couples therapy, you have to make sure9 that the therapist neutral. so if chatgpt can be the neutral partymy husband's not saying, well -- party, my husband's not

saying, well, the therapist is siding with you -- >> i can take all the a help i can get on my taxes so, chatgpt, i'm coming for you. charles: caroline, taylor, thank you both very much. a make sure you watch taylor on "big money," every day at 12 the p.m. right here on fox business. all right, trump wants a big with, beautiful bill. the house and the senate cannot be further apart. we've got house budget committee member chip roy, congressman roy, with us next. can they get over what everyone thinks is a low hurdle? if we'll be right back. ♪ uptown girl, you know i can't afford her to the buy her pearl- ♪ but maybe someday when my ship comes in -- ♪ she'll understand what kind of guy i've been ♪ ♪ so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants?

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charles: all right, folks, gad news. the doge clock is galloping at breakneck speed. the bad news? the debt clock, it never stops ticking and will soon surpass world war ii era peaks. we're talking about just crazy amounts of money being spent. meanwhile, the clock is ticking also on that big, beautiful bill that president trump has spoken so much about. standing in the way are different approaches by republicans. you can see here the house, you've got 11 committees. they're adding an additional $3.3 trillion many in borrowing. that's going to raise our debt limit by $4 trillion. on the other hand, the senate -- which is only focused, by the way, on border security and energy -- only adds $517 billion, so that does nothing for the debt limit. these have got to come together. they're got to match. i want to bring in texas republican congressman and also a member of the house budget committee chip roy. congressman roy, so what's going on behind the scenes to get these to match if eventually? >> well, charles, great to be

on. first of all, you said it, we have to deal with the spending problem. the treasury secretary's been great talking about what we need to do to tame the bond markets. we've got to get interest rates down, and the best way to do that is to stop spending money we don't have. the president did a great job in the campaign, in his inaugural speech saying we've got to cut spending to get rid of the inflation that's killing the average american family with an inflation tax. so what the house did, the budget committee with jodey arrington as the chairman, we put forward a bill that that puts a floor in place to say, look, get cuts in place of roughly $2 trillion in order to extend the president trump's tax cuts for 2017 because every american wants their a taxes to stay put. but every american also a wants us to do the job of cutting waste and reducing spending. to put it in perspective, charles, there's -- our bill only cuts about $200 billion a year. i would like to go further, but we're dealing with a broad conference. keep in mind that in 2019

pre-covid we spent about $4.5 trillion total. today we're spending $7 trillion, charles. we're just asking for $to to 200 billion in cuts on $7 trillion. put the tax cuts in place, unleash the american economy to get the growth necessary along with the spending cuts necessary to drive down inflation. the senate is rightly concerned, as i am, on getting the border funded. so they wanted to move quickly with a maul bill. of that was originally -- small bill. that was originalally my preference. i'm agnostic. i want the border funded, cuts in place, tax cuts in place. that's fighting to achievement and the objectives that the president put forward, so now we've got to figure out how to smash these together next week. charles: and i think there's a lot of ang a psity about waiting, the one-two punch a making assumptions. i remember when senator brown from massachusetts, you know, he came out of left field because no one thought kennedy was going to die. that that changed the whole thing. the obama agenda was mostly derailed.

you recently liked comments on a post from congressman massie that almost no one in congress is serious about cutting spending. you know, they're staring down lobbyists and there's also going to your constituents and saying, hey, i'm not bringing back a bridge to nowhere. how hard is that? >> well, i have found it to be rewarding. i've sat down with farmers and said, guys, i can't give you the farm bill if we're going to continue to fund sugary drinks and junk food through the s.n.a.p. program. i'm a cancer survivor, charles. i've looked at people and said, guys, i can't give you $100 billion in cancer money if we don't balance the budget. you've got to be willing to do it. thomas is right. we've got to address medicaid, reform mandatory spending. every one of my colleagues say, chip, it's a mandatory spending problem, not discretionary. now's their chance to prove it. we have a spending problem. now's your chance to prove it. every republican needs to actually step up to honor what they've campaigned on when they

say they want to balance the budget and reduce spending. we've given them a blueprint print to get spending going down, get tax cuts back in place and get this economy revved up again behind the president's agenda. charles: listen, i've got 45 seconds. i wanted to talk to you about h.r. 317, the health care freedom act. but in 20 seconds, has doge made it easier for you to press the case as people see even when that mandatory spending, the waste, fraud and abuse, the abuse is the keyword here. >> no question. with all these abuses with are i peatst numbers, looking at what's happening with fraud, elon being able to identify -- by the way, all this freakout, look, we've got them reporting to the president, reviewing all this waves. congress is going of to have to get involved and, by the way, the case for health care freedom? that is how you get prices down. charles: right. >> medicaid reform, health savings accounts, that will really balance the budget. charles: talk to you again rea