er, and nobody can do a 3-hour show the way he can. brian: that that's a hard one to follow. i went with our own bill melugin because just look at his hair. david: yeah, the hair does it. jackie: all right. i did mine. katrina? >> i ripped from yellowstone because i'm obsessed with masculinity, as you all know -- [laughter] so is, cole. brian: a very masculine conversation as well. david: it is. brian: so that's cole hauser? >> from yellowstone. now he has a new series coming with beth. i call her beth -- david: i don't think they go wrong with doing any one of those guys. i don't think they go wrong with any one of those guys. brian: amazon, you choose. jackie: i'm going to toss the it to charles on time and just remind viewers markets are down across the board, the dow down about a 700 points as we send is it all over. charles: not one of you picked me for bond? >> oh, i forgot! brian: missed opportunity. charles: see you later. all right, folks.

good afternoon, i'm charles payne and this is "making money." obviously, the markets under pressure. a lot of red out there. the broad market, really what's happening here, it's beginning to consolidate. and many of the stocks that have made monster moves are giving big chunks of out. some of the names down big, remember, in the past year they've been up huge. hims down 20% today but up 450% in the last year. carvana if up 340% with today's decline, and oak welshing this is one of those utility plays, getting hammered today, still up 280%. the point is many investors have made a lot of money over the last year and two years buying the dip. is this one of those situation? why not -- it has been, listen, the plan, right, it's been an amazing blueprint. people have done very well with it. and i've got to el you something, let's -- to tell you something, let's be honest, making this kind of money is what changes your life, right in it's the best way to make money

legally, maybe even illegally, right, if you can make 6 of 00% in a year. of course, there's going to be a time when the stipis not frear -- dip is not temporary, but the start of something long, ugly and painful. here's the thing, you only know after the fact. i have been playing the buy on dip game for my subscribers where it's done very well, and there's a bunch of names i've got on my radar. but also a, let's be honest, i'm also on the prowl for deep bargains, and there's a lot of them out there. you can see the darker the hue, right, the more down or intense it's the down. so momentum has been the big win. momentum getting crushed, marley mid-sized momentum. -- particularly mid-sized momentum. quality is under pressure, growth as well. momentum and growth, that's where the big money has been made. and so the question is, will cash leave those names and go to the sidelines? or, listen, a little speck of green here, will it find other

areas like, let's say, small cap value? let's bring in chief market investment strategist brian belski. brian, before we get into some of the ideas you've got right now, your thoughts on this market. is this consolidation in is this something shifting? something going on that you're concerned about? >> i'm still captivated by your deep hue conversation there. [laughter] so, listen, stocks don't go up forever. we needed a bit of a pullback. that's healthy. we never like it when stocks are down because that means people lose money. bought the end of the day, it is quite healthy. as you said, it was amazing how you laid that out because a lot of money's been made the last couple of years, and we own some of the stocks and continue to own some of the stocks including reddit that that you mentioned. but we own reddit for thematic reasons from a longer term the perspective. but, listen, i think what we've seen so far in 2025 is really a

shot across the bow in terms of the momentum stocks. you don't just buy stocks, charles, as you know, because they're going up. you buy stocks because they're working fundamentally. i do think the broadening of the market into value, into small cap, into dividend growth and into other areas of technology not just the magnificent seven, i think, is going to be very, very healthy longer term for the stock market. charles: so one thing that you do point out is that large cap, obviously, continues to lead the way. but you also in your note, and if it's a fantastic note. i hope everyone can have access to it. his historically, large caps have outperformed. i think the question is these -- the transition. like, how do you know when the transition has begun? with again, there are days like today which might be offset next week with a big buying the dip crowd or there are times when there is a true changing of the guard. >> it's kind of like your analogy with respect to buying the dip, you don't know until if

it actually begins to turn, and i think that's what investing and building a qualify all about. when we look at the s&p 500 and quintile it out into those five quintiles, the lowest three actually perform the best longer term. and, oh, by the way, if you put a value tilt on that, so you have pes less than the market and earnings better than the market if in terms of a garp over on the value side of things, we're starting to see a decisive change with respect to performance so far this year. and that's something nobody's talking about. we like to be early on trends, but we think longer term this is a broader participation type move that's very healthy for the stock market. charles: so i brought up the chart you're talking about -- well, one of the charts you're talking about that. and, again, to your point, long term, the blue line being value garp, obviously significantly outplaying s&p just plain value. and we can see here the changing of the guards, so to speak. 2023 as the s&p value, 2024, it

was almost neck and neck. now this year so far this gap thing. i'm going to bring up a definition of garp because this is a term not all our viewers understand, and i'd like to yo -- like you to talk about it. it's the pocketer i have a lot of guests who bring it up --st the important. aye got it as focus to debt to equity ratio, sales and free cash flow. does this give you better insight into the fundamentals of a company? >> it does. and, in fact, debt to equity is a very important indicator that we look at from a sector, industry and stock perspective, and one of our main indicators when we look at a value stocks overall. but a true garp stock means that that you are trading with a higher expected earnings growth rate than the overall market, but you are valued on a pe basis lower than the market. that's the most similar police ific thing. but when you're -- simplistic thing.

but when you're talking income statements, those are wonderful attributes to add on to that because you're seeing the operational -- of the company is actually working. we have to now start to think more and more fundamentally, and that's why we continue to believe that we're in this golden age of fundamental stock picking. charles: so before -- i've got a minute to go. i looked at your list, the bmo list of stocks with outperform rating that fall into the three smallest market quintiles. and i look at a the tame thats, and it's -- the names, and it's an interesting variety. do you make any objections based on low beta that, high beta? some of these names can be high bay that from time to time, pick big, gargantuan names, tom do know's pizza -- domino's pizza, and some of them make more pedestrian moves. how do you manage the downside with them? >> what's interesting about a first solar, you brought it up, it's in both indices in terms of

growth and value. not many people understand that in the s&p 500 you can be both a and a value stock. first solar is, it's based on whether or not it goes in the growth index, by the way, charles, because of the price performance. so if it underperforms, it'll probably go back weighting in the value performance. on the domino side, i look at 5-year rolling beta because we know there's so much volatility in the stock market, but domino's in terms of what the consumer discretionary's doing, that makes sense to us with respect to to how the stock is weighted at a bmo. charles: educating people to the take better control of their finances, today is a great day for it. i appreciate you with, man. thank you. >> thanks so much. charles: all right, see ya. have a great weekend. and get more of a tan. all right, folks, doge changing a -- taking a chainsaw to government spending, and we love it! we absolutely love it. we're going to get reaction from a very special quest who knows a

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get super fast xfinity internet you don't have to share. forty's going to be my year. charles: all right, folks, let's talk about the pain needed to avoid the ultimate pain of bankruptcy. by the way, the word bankruptcy comes from the italian word which means broken bench. during the recession money dealers worked from benches or tables and, well, if they ran out of money, tear bench or table was broken in half meaning, hey a, they're out of business. this was considered civilized because ancient greeks, indebted men were unable to pay their bills. they were put into debt slavery until the debt was worked off. you know, in the past week there have been three high profile bankruptcies that i think everyone should be aware of for a variety of reasons. first, nikola, right? everyone remembers it, the media was excited about thing. now they're being pretty kind if you look at the headlines that

suggest, okay, the company went bankrupt because of the turmoil in the ev market. but let's not forget, you know, "wall street journal" reminds us that the this was once a darling of the green investment movement. it was, of course, until the company admitted that that a prototype they used to sort of hype the truck and use a lot of money, they actually rolled it down the hill. it wasn't powered by the engine, they just put it in neutral and pushed it. the stock got a $30 billion market cap after that. hen there's the container store when was the ultimate progressive ec experiment in business. the company came out guns blazing against shareholder, that whole shareholder culture of wall street and business. they actually called that that a yucky. instead, kip tindall, he defied milton friedman and everyone else. he said he's going to have a company that a puts the focus on the employee first, and i told everyone from the very beginning, i said, the company is doomed. but i lille admit -- will admit it lasted longer than i thought,

and there is something to be said about a company that's voted the best company to work for for 17 years in a row. and then there's forever 21. the owners were both 27 years old, and they were unable the find any clothes from back home, so they said, why not open up their own store? and they looked around l.a. d said everybody who had money in that town, they had fashion. that was in 1984. fast forward to 2015, 600 stores, 20 the countries, but their ambition, they wanted more and bigger stores and bigger stores. it's an age-old story when it comes to fashion, right? if first of all, we know tastes go in and out, that's always going to change. but their mountain of debt didn't go away. i do love that they were so passion if nate about their faith that john 3:16 was stamped on all of their shopping bags, but they didn't need divine intervention. the company moved too slow to

fix their problem. which brings me the painful solutions and chainsaws. yes, the tool. the tool constructed like a motorized bare dude da, right in associated -- bare dude da, right? associated with bad things, but in business you must occasionally clean house to survive. no one did that a better than the late, great jack well, who made ge the most valuable company in the world. well, now elon musk is taking a chainsaw to the federal government, and he's trying to enrich -- by the way, only enriching a few people at the expense of the masses. [cheers and applause] if. ♪ >> this is the chainsaw for bureaucracy is. chainsaw! ♪ [cheers and applause] [laughter] charles: all right. hey, listen, i got a very special guest joining me on set, former cfo of crazy eddie, sam

antar. welcome to the show. >> thank you for having me on. charles: i tried to pit all a together, right? business, personal lives and everything else. you can get too big, you can get desperate and do desperate if things. our country has too much debt, right? you were involved in a company, crazy eddied, that was doing fantastic. the commercials were wonderful, but the company did some bad things, and you sort of helped orchestrate that. the. >> yes. i fake the numbers, and as a result of that, it collapsed. charles: right. so let's talk about that for a moment because you're a numbers guy. you see these numbers. right now on doge you've got this great page that's growing bigtime with new york city corruption squad. what do you make of what elon musk is doing? and he's going in there, and it's the not just about accounting errors, right in this is some legitimate fraud and theft. >> correct. there are two as aspects of it. there's called fraud and waste. let's talk about fraud first. successive presidents all the way back from ronald reagan's time when i was a criminal in

the 1980s, right in. [laughter] white collar prosecutions have gone down under successive presidential administrations. basically, up until now the federal government's abdicated the war on white collar crime. in fact, there were more prosecutions when i was doing crime, when the economy was, like, 70 lower than there is today. so it's about time somebody is paying attention to crime that's done with pencil and patient or with key keyboards and with accounting. charles: right. >> so that's a good thing. charles: right. >> also, of course, you've got the element of waste. now, as a criminal, i will tell you that if nobody's looking, i'm going to do. i did my crimes just because i could. okay? if nobody's watching the government's money, shit's going to happen -- charles: right, right. no problem. [laughter] you're absolutely right.

particularly if -- but to me, it feels even more egregious because these elected officials do a lot of finger pointing, right? and these people are bad, we're good. put me in office and i'll do good things, and then they set is up these organizations ostensibly to help the poor, the downtrodden, the underdeveloped missions, and they put themselves squarely in the middle, and and they've been stealing all this money. $2 billion here, a billion ther- >> the nonprofit industrial complex. we have the same problem right here in new york city. if you want to look at a microcosm, we have nonprofits that are getting government funding x they many in turn promote their favorite candidates, right? and they attack candidates who they don't like. and we pay for this with our taxpayer money? charles: right. so what do you make then of all the outrage? when you hear someone who's existence what elon musk is doing -- against what elon musk is doing, does that that send your radar off? >> yes, absolutely. people have to be monitored,

government agencies have to be monitored, it's about time somebody's taking a close look. elon musk is not going to bat a thousand. he's going to make some mistakes along the way. we all do. but on the whole, he's doing the right thing. he's trying to look for fraud, and he's also a looking for wasteful spending. who could be against that? you know, there's a concept of the loyal opposition in america -- charles: right. >> the democrats should be a loyal opposition. not an obstructive opposition that's trying to put themselves in the way of government accountability. if. charles: so should anyone -- if it gets to this point, should people go to jail? is that the ultimate example that we need to see? >> yes, people should go the jail if crimes were committed, yes. charles: sam, i really appreciate you. i would give you a handshake, but last time i shook your hand, i was missing my watch. [laughter] i appreciate you. >> to got bless you. thank you. charles: you too. while the bears are out in force today having a great time, my next guest says the bull market,

give it the benefit of the doubt. this is a cyclical bull market that's just getting started, and don't go back to the 1700s. wow. we'll break it all down for you next. ♪ i took a louisville slugger to both headlights -- ♪ slashed a hole in all four tires. ♪ maybe next time he'll think before he cheats ♪ (♪) whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. also try tums gummy bites!

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charles: the markets under serious pressure, and there's some individual names that are absolutely getting hammered. well, it's moments like this when the curmudgeons sharpen their worn-out mention of fear. joining me now, fidelity investments' global macro director. by the way, congratulations, 30 years? >> 30 years. charles: you look fantastic, my man. [laughter] i love the charts that you put up. i love the cyclical bull market thing. i'm not sure why you use it. when i first saw it, i thought of the bingo cards when you go see grandma if play bingo. [laughter] what the heck is going on here? essentially, maybe this rally has a long way to go. >> yeah. this bull market is reaching middle age -- charles: which is right here. >> yes. the median over the last hundred years or so has been that a sick isly call bull market produces a 90% gain other 30 month ifs. we're at about month 28, 29, we're at about a 78%. so middle-aged, right? some are shorter, some are

longer, and the key message is that the last two years so the bull markets are in october '22, the last two years were driven mostly by pe expansion. now the earnings side is really coming through in a nice way, and earnings are going to have to carry the next few innings of this bull. charles: this second is half of this cyclical bull market is the kind of volatility tilt we're starting to witness now, is this typical? >> yes. so is as a bull market matures, rates start to matter more. so the key thing to remember for the audience is that price always leads the fundamentals. the market always discounts, right? it always anticipates. not always correctly -- charles: right, right. >> and so the first section of the rally comes from price. then the earnings come through. but as a earnings come through, the pe side has already kind of happened. and right now especially where treasury bonds have become more competitive with stocks -- charles: because of higher yields. >> -- when yields go up, which

is what they've been doing, it starts to be competitive. and i think those kinds of wobbles are typical of a later, more mature bull market. charles: so beyond the cyclical bull market, this chart goes back to the 1700s and essentially saying, hey, if you've been in the stock market, you've outperformed everything. this is your way of -- this is how you maintain purchasing power. if you're out there, folks, this is why i hate the term on wall street when the stock market's up and they say that the risk, it's risk on? if i think it's risk on if you're not in the stock market. if you don't have this, you're in a a great risk. i also was intrigued by the performance of gold. a lot of folks jumping into gold these days. >> now you know what i do in my spare time -- [laughter] charles: well, you're a pretty good chef too, i think. >> equities are the number one sort of compounder over time. and so you've got to be n right? the compounding only works if you're invested, so market timing is a very difficult game to play. and so you can see that stocks

over a very long term, longer than we'll ever be aa live, are the number one source. bonds have done okay, but it depends on the region. charles: sure. >> but gold, i think, is kind of a lost hero here because gold doesn't often do well. but when it does, it's often a when bonds don't do well. so gold and bonds are kind of good sort of compliments -- complements to each other in a a diversified portfolio. charles: so far our conversation is mostly upbeat, mostly positive, but you've got a chart that that's comparing the '66-'69 rally to the current rally. and, essentially, it feels like this is where we are now. maybe we're in for a bumpy ride for a little bit if past is prologue. >> yeah. it's just one analog. i can hoe you an analog of the mid '90s where the market actually accelerates now. but the point i'm trying to make just with this chart is during the late '670s we had a -- '60s, we had a period of fiscal and monetary very loose

policy, and that kind of released the genie of inflation. and in '66-'68, the fed kind of panicked when there was a wobble, and they eased. it turned out that they eased too prematurely, and that's not to say that the fed with its 100 basis point cut last year, that it was premama mature, but it -- premature, but it is similar in some ways. charles: i got you. we have time, a minute to go, there's one more chart here, and i bring this up because you follow money flows very well. u.s. equity and etfs flows. it's amazing to me the periods when there's money coming out, but this spike here is absolutely phenomenal. and i want to ask two things. does the money flow control the market, or does the market influence the money flow? >> both. right? so sentiment follows price often, right? so the market goes up, or there's a catalyst like the election and people get excited. the animal spirits come back, money nows in. and that is -- flows this in.

and that is in response to a bullish dynamic. of cast charles right. >> but then that money also pushes the price up, so it's sort of a chicken and egg -- charles: i got ya. a self-pull filling, virtuous cycle. real quick, the evolution of passive. it feels like -- i tell people the fix is in. millions of people get their paycheck, every paycheck they put money into the market. every time they put money into the market in the passive funds, it automatically buys the stocks with the most influence. those stocks go up which attracts more people, and if that's the ultimate virtuous cycle i guess until it unwinds somehow. >> until if it leads to an extreme like it did in 2000. not to say that a we're in 2000, but that's a good reason to have at least some money actively managed so that you actually have people picking stocks that a make sense rather than just benefiting from pass i flows, as you point out. charles: great stuff the. that's a legend right there, folks. thank you very much. okay. so speaking of americans and many of us really out there

trying to fight the good fight, you know, the big thing this week has been what's happening down in d.c. trying to get some fiscal discipline in there. but when you do this, the folks who don't want fiscal discipline, they know how to circle the wagons, and they often say, hey, you're hurting us. you're hurting the poorest of us. take a listen. >> this has nothing to do with greater government efficiency. nothing. in this the has everything to do to taking over the reins of government to observe the already powerful and and if to slash public services that help every american. charles: all right. let's bring in heritage foundation economist steve moore. you know, steve, i love your pieces that come out. the prosperity pieces. keep 'em coming, man. i hope everyone subscribes to them. in your latest piece, you note that that we spend now twice as much money as needed to to end poverty. we've got the poverty fresh hold up there -- threshold, the

welfare outlays. where's that money gone? >> yeah, it's a great point. i want to make sure people understand that chart. it's basically saying that, you know, we could spend half as much money, and if we just gave people cash, we could pull every american out of poverty, and yet we spend twice as much money and we still have 30 million people if poverty. how do you have a worse system than we have right now? and so one of the points that we were making is exactly where you were leading to in this question. if the money didn't go to poor people, where did it go? the answer is is it went to a massive welfare industry in america, and it's not helping the poor people he's helping the people who run that industry. and those are the people who are screaming bloody murder if about a what elon musk is trying to do because they're the ones who are going to be hurt. not people who benefit, you know, directly from government programs. charles: yeah. and the art, of course, is that they get these folks who are in these programs to go out and

become their foot soldiers while they sit if in five-star hotels and restaurants smoking cuban cigars. the american public, people -- particularly the poorest of americans, they need to know that they're being played, that the they're being played for chumps. their pain and agony is being usurped by the folks who are getting rich. >> well, i'll give you another example that's very current that, you know, one of your colleagues there at a fox business uncovered, liz macdonald, about the fact that so many of the billions and billions of dollars that were supposed to go to fight climate change actually went to groups tata used it for political -- that used it for political purposes. that's illegal, by the way, charles. in other words, these organizations were just mouthpieces for the democratic party. they didn't change the temperature of the planet. what they did was just enrich the war chests of these political organizations. charles: right. i just had sam ant aar earlier today, and we talked about a

maybe somebody has to do a perp walk. maybe people need to go to jail. let's talk about what we need to do next in this country, and you talked recently about president trump, he posted this about the house and senate doing a spectacular job working as united -- working to be united, unified and unbeatable, you know? they're far apart right now with what the the house has put up so far and what the senate has put up so far. how critical is it that we get this one big, beautiful bill and keep the momentum going? >> it has to be done. the sooner or the better, charles. you're the expert if on the markets. but the longer the republicans wait and delay this, the more uncertainty it puts mt. market, and the -- in the market, and the more your friends and my my friends on wall street say, well, this may never happen. it would be a total disaster for the markets if we cannot get this done. let me put it very simple. this would be the biggest tax increase if in american history

if we don't get these tax cuts permanent. how are you going to have a bull market, charles, the you massively increase taxes on every business? charles: yeah. it's no accident the that the trump tax cuts were left in place the last four years, and the market did extraordinarily well. an interesting note, before i let you go, conservatives should adopt a current policy budget baseline like obama did? >> yeah. obama did this back when he was president, used the current policy tax code, and that's exactly what republicans should do here. what that means is the cost of extending the trump tax cuts over the next ten years, you know what that the number is, charles? zero. charles: well, whatever it takes to get this thing across the finish line. steve moore, again, i love your work, read it every morning. thank you very much, my friend. >> thank you, charles. charles: see you soon. all right, folks, stay with us. we've got the power panel up next. ♪ -- now it's your turn to cry.

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charles: so in december 1982,

george clinton released atomic dog. you guys remember it, come on. ironically, it failed to land on the billboard 100, but it has spawned so many hits including snoop dogg's what's my name which celebrated the doug pound. these days the biggest hit in america is doge. it feels like everyone is in the doge pound. they're rooting for elon to keep on unearthing all of this dirt. but this is more than just cleaning up corruption. in fact, it might be the only way to course correct our economy and our nation. and wall street is starting to buy in. this morning michael harnett of bank of america, he suggested three routes to getting the what scott bessent and donald trump want, a 3% deficit is. one, 10% gdp growth. that's not going to happen. raise revenue, president trump's talking about cutting taxes, not raising taxes or right? or cut spending, right? cut the wasteful spending. cut the fraud, abuse. shut down unnecessary government. we can get there. joining me now to discuss, utxo

and bitcoin magazine along with fox business real estate contribute kerr and matching global host katrina if campins. you know -- katrina campins. when wall street starts getting on, the journal had a positive article. and think about it, we're if in trouble. we need to do some serious house cleaning, and people are shocked at some of this stuff. let's call it theft. [laughter] >> yeah, it is. charles: it's going to happen, right? >> who wouldn't be happy about this? if i came to you and said, hey, charles, i could save you a ton of money, you're going to be upset at me for that? if it makes no sense. charles: unless somehow it's benefiting you and your cronies. >> exactly. obviously, there's a bunch of fraud that's been going on for a very long time, and we should all be just so happy as americans that someone like donald trump and elon musk are now treating this country like a business which has, you know, should have happened ages ago. charles: long time ago. what do you think, dylan? >> yeah. i think the doge camp, i mean, this is what what we needed in this country.

the amount of, you know, the amount of funds through usaid that we didn't know that these social causes and, you know, implicit -- i don't want to say coup, but, you know, color revolutions in other countries, it's, like, why is taxpayer money being spent on this, and why didn't we know about it? if i'm optimistic about it, but in terms of the total revenue of the united states, you know, it's interest expense is over a trillion dollars. charles: right. >> it's more than defense spending. charles: not. but also, the journal -- not the journal, bank of america, because doge is just the beginning. we're talking about, hey, get rid of the department of education. get rid of this department, you know? you have to go into those so-called mandatory spending areas because that's where the fat with marbled. it's not just marbled in discretionary, it's in that mandatory stuff, and that that's where we have to go find it. i think it's beautiful that the journal -- i mean, wall street is saying, hey a, we can find a trillion dollars. it's the there to be found to get rid of, to get the country back on the right track. >> yeah.

so we should all be happy about this, and i'm very happy that wall street is coming back and saying this. charles: so am i. and, by the way, i was just looking here, a lot of this money went to -- almost all of it to the it, elites, right? did you know the president of the kennedy center is was making $1.2 million a year? i throw a few concerts a year if you're going to pay me -- [laughter] i was trying to get some sound from speech i heard this morning. we couldn't get it, but i had this guest on recently. she started a company, one of the hottest selling whiskey brands. she was talking to the audience, and she said, hey, the democrats, you've got to stop -- forget about dei. forget about all this stuff. it's not about race, it's about why did trump win? 61 million if people own bitcoin. why did trump win? people own assets. young people want a stake in this game and, dylan, this is something you've been talking about for years. >> yep. i mean, i think a lot of people feel left out in the economy these days, you know? like if you look at the average

gen-z or millennial even, they're up to their eyeballs in student debt, and they don't are any true economic prospects, so people are -- charles: but it's amazings how bitcoin became a powerful political force this last election. >> yeah. i think at the margin it may have won the election or at least swayed it concern. charles: i think it won. and this is what she was saying. 61 million people. forget about how can i have a better life for myself, forget about dei stuff. by the way, no one even knows who that the helped. it didn't help me. they're saying i know i can have a financial future. the flipside, and i want to ask you about this, katrina, the american dream of homeownership. we've talked about this, it's been fading, but now it feels like it's going off the a cliff. home builder stocks getting crushed. money coming out of home building stocks, the largest outflow ever. no one wants to own these stocks, no one can buy a house, what's happening in. >> there's so many problems. the existing home sales yes came

out at 10 a.m., and existing home sales are down. builder sentiment is on the floor, first of all, there's so much up mt. air right now. trump is using the tariffs as a form to negotiate -- >> charles: i hate the trump excuse. trump has been in office two months, a month. this has been happening. again, it's been going downhill. now it's falling off a cliff. >> you know why too? if insurance. we've spokedden about it, insurance, property taxes and interest rates, it's so much more expensive -- charles: and no one's going to sell a house with a 2% mortgage to get a 7% mortgage. >> no. and rates have not come down, but also what's becoming really expensive right now is also rent. people are now passing down those costs. as a land lord, you have to, the cost of property insurance and taxes, to your tenants. so we're seeing rent inflation. with regard to the builders, charles, one interesting thing is we're seeing shrinkflation if where homes are getting smaller because these 30-year-olds are finally leaving the house -- [laughter] and they are buying something,

just a lot smaller, and, obviously, people are retiring and saying, wait a second, i don't want these huge homes. charles: right. let me pick up on this household formation thing. aei came out with a piece, and, dylan and katrina, they're saying don't subsidize childcare, remove roadblocks to starter homes, require family formation and make births free. do you feel, dylan, for family formakers right, this is something that this is a critical economic issue, it's a critical socialish issue. you don't see it immediately, but you do kneel the effects out, that there should be some sort of government intervention to restoke the flames of, hey, we should have family more nation and -- formation and things like that? >> the ultimate paradox in the last two decades is on the one hand they're saying, well, we're not having enough births, you know? everything's unaffordable, but then we're going to the improve important millions upon millions of immigrants can make -- charles: right, right. >> it's kind of this doom loop.

if you want to place an economic sniff, demographics is deaths theny. -- incentive. i think that would be great for family formation in the united states. charles: they talk about starter homes here. there's no starter homes. >> there aren't. charles: how do you incentivize a home builder to make a starter home instead of a mcmansion? >> that's another obstacle they have in front of them. and i also still believe that homeownership is part of the american dream. you know that about me. charles: i know. >> where are these starter homes? how are we going to get them back? charles: usually, when we do the power panel, i have one fun topic. but the market's in the red, we'll bring you back and have two fun topics next time. >> deal. charles: see you next friday at the bitcoin conference. and see you on "mansion global." all right, folks, we'll be right back. ♪ at are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride?

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with a guy when istairs started business named jack cantor and got to get the ads. got to get the ads and the ades go to though who know how to follow the money and you don't have to get rich or die trying but when it comes to following options trading, there's a well out there known as 50-cent. he's making the former possible. i want to braining former cofounder and 50-cent doing a whole lot of this. johnson over to us last night and vicks up with 20% today. already someone is making a ton of money. you fight this stuff and pick up on the trail. >> yes, sir. and the reason that he or she are known as 50-cent because we don't know whether or not it's a man or woman. all we know is that they usually buy about 50-cent level of options so in other words if they pay $1.50, they sell $1 against it and only putting about 50-cents to work. then they get triple, quadruple

or 10x that number when the market makes a big move, they've been betting on that, charles, as you can see here basically since the valentine's day on a really big downward move in the market, we're getting that today and they're making bank. charles: the kind of moves that this person is known to make, you're looking for a spike, maybe like the bank of japan raised rates and that kind of parabolic spike real soon. >> yep, and the timing is usually within a week to 10 days when again, 50-cent jumps in here and it's worth following them and make that kind of move and i say they because i don't know who it is. charles: strategy of buying and selling strategy and would you encourage everyone to use something like that? >> i would and takes down amount of capitol at resident and can time decay or theta as option traders call 2. it's a smart way to trade.

whoever this trader is, they really know the markets and they have great timing when it comes to big spikes in volatility. charles: speaking of great timing, again, you sent this to us last night and energy was the only sector up at one point. these are some big time calls happening in the energy sector. >> yeah, people are betting out into the next month, out into april and end of march. , april and may and national oil and bp, halliburton, pea body energy and more or less coal and those are bets that energy prices are going up and people will be putting more money into energy stocks. charles: incorporating charts like taking oil chart and break out at 82? the book is a best seller and is that part of it. >> it's smart to do that, chars.

your know resistance revels is up on top or support levels down below and being able to trade that range is what it's all about really. charles: one of the best market technicians on the market technician going for i love the work and don't understand it but love it. he talked about gold early in the show. and a lot of folks jumped on the gold band wagon and intriguing is this rally and retail investor set it out and they start to come in and that might give an extra boost and seeing serious call buying. >> yeah, massive call buying in silver, which is the slv etf as well as spider gold trust and gdx, which is gold miners and people are betting this goes significantly higher and dylan was on with bitcoin and so forth and the same sort of people that buy gold tend to be a bit older and younger folks are all going for bitcoin. both look like they're on a good

trajectory. charles: fiat currency, no good and get out and find real money or real value. i got less than a minute to go. on the gold, i was -- i gave up some gold miners and his torrically the gold miners should actually be moving even more. would you look at any of the individual names? >> i absolutely would. >> yes, au and any of the plays on the individual name and reason many go for these bigger things like etfs is because they want to spread the residenting around rather than just having all the risk on one name or two names. charles: my man, good stuff as usual. we always learn something when you're hear. folks, it's a pretty how far day in the market and no one better to hold your hand than liz claman. liz: got to get the edge, charlie. charles: got to get the edge. liz: a lot of people are falling off the edge, charles. let's say that. folks,