>> all right. there is another story going on here, a tragic one to norway where the death toll continues to rise now. 85 confirmed dead in the island shooting attack at the

youth camp. there is additional killing in the bombing in oslo, itself. and fox news correspondent greg palkot. >> new death toll as you noted and twin horrors in norway. police took a man into custody with a knife this morning, near where the prime minister was visiting with victims. precautionary move. police say they have no concrete evidence of a second shooter and remain focused on the 32-year-old norwegian man. he did most of the damage at that camp on that island. about 20 miles from oslo. police now saying, the death toll 85 there as well as 19 injured and the man allegedly roamed the camp dress add a policeman and turning the gun on his prey maybe an in our and a half before the police got there. the children tried to hide,

play dead, swim away. before he was arrested. an apparent car bomb yesterday did a lot of damage, too, killed seven, injured 15 and police say the same suspect, they believe, was involved in both. they also say they traced some fertilizer he acquired. a whole lot of it. six tons to that possible bomb. media in norway is identifying the suspect as anders baron brave rbiing and police say he was links to right wing extremism, anti-foreigner, anti-muslim views, apparently, neil, he is a home grown terrorist, norwegian style and police also say, neil, he is cooperating today with authorities. a little too late. a lot of damage done yesterday. back to you. >> neil: thank you, greg very much. greg palkot. the latest on the debt crisis, bubbling in the united states. less than 30 minutes away from the debt meeting with congressional leaders and that

meeting we have learned will be in the oval office itself. ahead of that meeting some strong words from john boehner, issuing a staement moments ago, if the white house won't get serious, we will. the speaker pledging to work through the weekend with senate counterparts and both mr. boehner and mitch o'connell saying they won't meet with the press. and a press conference conference 2 p.m. eastern time. with the rank and file where things stand. this keeps percolating. and reports that the president moved the goal posts after the gang of six revealed a plan earlier this week and a big reason why the talks broke down. and one of those six, he joins me now. senator, the gang is famous for trying to bridge republicans and democrats and democrats didn't like the fact that you didn't offer enough spending cuts, republicans

didn't like the fact that among your ideas was revenue enhancements. what they called automatic tax hikes. but still, it was a bridge. is that bridge now burned and destroyed? >> oh, no, i don't think so at all. as a matter of fact, our plan does not raise taxes. we actually cut the taxes dramatically and the revenue that we allocate is revenue from growth in the economy. which is exactly how we ought to approach it. this is the-- >> wait a minute, wait, didn't that include getting rid of credit and subsidies and the like that would effectively at least here in some states, raise taxes on those individuals to work. >> well, some are arguing that, but we reduce rates far more than we adjust the tax preferences so no matter how you look at it. we have far more rate reduction than we do preference adjustment. no, there's no tax increase in our plan. what we do is allocate revenue from growth in the economy, and i know that the president may have said something that indicated he thought that there was some kind of adjust

if ication for a tax increase in our proposal, but he's just mischaracterized our plan and that was pretty disappointing to us. >> it seems like he left his bride at the altar? >> that's pretty much the way it looks, speaker boehner was approaching the revenue portion of the deal, exactly the way we are approaching it, namely to reform the tax codes and generate growth in the economy. that's how we should do it. but the president insists on raising taxes and i think that john boehner made it clear last night what finally broke the deal down, was the refusal of the president to agree for the mechanisms they were asking for that would assure that he would not simply veto the tax policy in place and back off his insistence that we raise taxes again. >> neil: do you think, senator, we're going to make the august 2nd deadline and fair to characterize it as the president has, if we don't, we're technically in default? >> well, first of all, no,

we're not in default. we will not fail to pay our obligations under our debt structure, under our bonds primarily. >> so you think he's scaring us? >> i believe that in that way, in a number of other ways, he is playing hardball, if you will. with the american people, trying to scare us. and frankly, i think that's very dangerous in the markets because if he keeps talking that way. it could actually cause some kind of a reaction in the markets or a downgrading of our rating. the bottom line, we will pay our debt, no matter what, even if he exceed the debt ceiling on august 2nd. that being said, i think that would be a very dangerous thing to happen. and that ultimately, there would be a negative reaction in the markets no matter what. and i do believe that there is still a good chance for us to get a solution by august 2nd. either still put together the big deal or a shorter term extension that will allow us to try to put together the major proposals. we're making progress in getting very solid and progressive comprehensive

solutions put together. >> neil: okay, senator. a pleasure. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> guys, could we show something, we saw earlier and i want this seen gun and again and again. you're hearing talk about default or everything goes to hell in a hand basket. here is what's not going to change on august 2nd. if you assume that the government shuts down that all of a sudden you don't have to pay taxes, that's not true. you still have taxen out of your check and the money comes to uncle sam, day in day out, every week, every month and that doesn't stop and the notion that the source of moan dries up for washington. that that's just not true. and washington will still get money and still be paying taxes and the only thing that has to be decided how it's allocateyou once it comes in. this'll still spend that inmo. >> some democrats say that they're paving the way for the g.o.p. to hike away. he's saying no one. he's here and he's next.

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icht. >> neil: when it comes to enforcing the republican parties anti-tax pledge has given republicans a hall pass. they should use it. >> it's getting the buzz and the man in the middle of the story kind of buzzed off. the democrats on comment by tax cutting guru, after he said the following. and not a tax cut effectively, not a tax increase. he was commenting on the tax cuts, comments he clarified and joins us on the phone. grover, when chuck schumer is endorsing with what you were allegedly saying, were you worrying? you want to clarify, what? >> no, no, no, mr. schumer has been looking for ways to raise taxes all of his adult life. the tax, the bush tax cuts. the alternative minimum tax

patch. r and d tax credit have all been passed by republican congresses, republican presidents and democratic presidents. these are established policy. changing that policy to raise more revenue next year than you'd ear wise raise is clearly a tax increase, which clearly violates. >> neil: what did you mean by not continuing the tax cut, a tax rate. did you say that? >> in that case we're talking about specific targeted tax cuts ie, the obama refundable tax credit per child for a two year period for the purpose of stimulating the economy. >> neil: so you weren't talking about the bush tax rate issues, were you? >> no, and make it quick. the rates need to continue or a tax rate. i think i said it clearly, many times that established

incorrectly. once, but that the phrase i used most often it does not pass the last test to suggest it allowing the bush tax cuts to end. would in fact, which would raise taxes 4 trillion dollars over the next decade and that's not a tax inooh crease. get a lot of taxes and speaker boehner was open to that not to the degree that the president was and they want to split the difference, at least the speaker did. insisting that that was not a tax hike. what do you think? >> no, no, if, if you eliminate deductions or credit so that the government raises more money. that's a tax increase from present law, what boehner and other republicans are open to are actual tax reform. separate from this debate, but

cutting-- as long as it's revenue neutral. if it raises taxes it's a tax increase. this is not algebra or difficult science. this is straight math. if it raises taxes, it's a tax increase, eliminating deductions, tax increase. tax reform when you get rid of reductions and credit and cut rates so that you have a better tax system, but not raising more money. >> grover, thank you very much. >> you've got it.

>> love those cliffs. over the cliff and congressman from minnesota. congressman, i guess, you're the latest to push us over the cliff. what did you think of that ad? >> good morning, neil. it's a diversery tactic, what they're trying to do skew off what's important and that's what's going on with regard to our debt and spending and i just take it as it comes. it's kind of ironic though when they talk about corporate tax. the actual corporate jet tax came out in the stimulus bill and this is actually president obama's tax and now he's demonizing it. so, it's just diversionary, we need to stay focused on the target and that is lowering spending and getting people back to work. >> you know, congressman we did put out a call to the fbi and service union that would help this out. and for some reason the calls weren't returned. i don't know why, could be my deodorant, but i digress.

the thing i wanted to raise with you, is this cliff thing. paul ryan had to deal with this, granny pushed off the cliff who i thought looked like the late harvey coreman dressed in drag. the cliff thing was thing with democrats and liberals saying that the republican are risking financial armageddon even touching this stuff, what are you saying? >> i'm saying they're trying to scare americans right now. what scares me as a father of two young children and as a son of an 80-year-old, my 80-year-old dad. i'm trying to protect the future of america, to make sure that they have a prosperous future, while protecting our seniors is he same time. one of the main things that never comes out in these ads is that medicare, for example, goes absolutely insolvent by the congressional budget office by 2020. social security goes insolvent by 2036. to do nothing and that's what

we're trying to do is save social security and medicare, is a dereliction of duty allowing this to press on. >> neil: people could agree with you on the specifics. we should welcome the debate and the ideas and shouldn't torpedo them from anyone. very good having you on. >> nice talking to you, neil. all the best. >> is this how you get a deal done? >> i want them here at eleven o'clock tomorrow. >> we have run out of time and they are going to have to explain to me how it is that we are going to avoid default. >> imagine, a president of the united states telling among others, the speaker of the house, get your butts in here fast. to the former ceo says, you know what, i wouldn't go.

>> all right, the stakeout position as they're calling it here in the media as we call it here in fox, outside of the white house and wait to see if the leaders in various chambers of the house and senate. arrived with the meeting with the president. something he demanded in a blistering attack and getting your butts in here, i'm paraphrasing, this hours after speaker boehner said you know what, my talks with you are going nowhere fast and i'll speak with harry reid. we're told that speaker boehner and mitch mcconnell do not plan to speak with reporters afterwards. the microphones might catch the sound of the cars coming up. do you want to be fashionably late to a meeting you've sort of been dragged to or do you

just want to zoom up like 90 miles an hour into the white house? that's your call. and denny wouldn't bother. the former ceo of verizon wireless says given the president's harsh tone yesterday and bullying yesterday he was saying no he wouldn't show up, right? >> neil, what i saw last night in the way of the president's speech was vitriolic, that's a formula for the way not to get a deal done. if i ever write a book how not to do a deal. i would include-- >> what bothered you about it? >> first of all, he placed blame. took no accountability for himself. and how can you get a deal done when you have finger pointing going on? that's, to my experience, that is the worst formula for doing a deal e you're a pretty good ceo. let me ask you the questions i raise to ceo's. when you get nasty with people, do you do it privately. i never have known a ceo that

says you're a bunion head. i would privately pull you in and say you are a bunionhead, there's difference. >> you have to put it in a positive way. >> neil: you're a nice bunionhead. >> if you're going to criticize someone it has to be constructi constructively. >> neil: not on national tv. >> you have this big meeting and i was wondering the predicament it had john boehner in. he says i thought the talks with you were fruitless and turns around and goes to the white house and talks with him. he kind of had no choice? >> what i saw last night in speaker boehner's statement. he was calm, relatively calm, he was actually very constructive in the way of saying, with determination, we'll get a deal done. the president led us to be scared. i think that was part of what he wanted to do. so, what would the maeths

produce if there's ill will? i know you looked in your stewardship of verizon and the like, if it gets to be personal and tense and acrimonious, hard to look at a merger or deal of any sort, right? >> neil, it delays the deal because you have to start over again. it's unfortunate when people start calling each other names. you either don't get a deal done or you're back to, you're back to the start. >> all right, now, the president was talking about being the bright guy in this not the sinner, the saint. and this is from last night. >> we have operated above-board consistently. there haven't been any surprises. >> neil: what do you think of that? >> well, frankly, i have great respect for the office of the president, but i don't think that was an honest statement. something changed and the way to get a deal done is not to move the goal post. you can't change the rules in the 11th hour. >> neil: do you think the

markets will push a deal? in other words, if they selloff on the fear of a deal that they took as a given, propels them to do something? >> my personal opinion, a deal has to be done. whether the markets that force it or whether it's the parties that come to agreement. the seriousness of this, speaking for the business community, is tremendous. this is one more level of uncertainty, add to it obama care, unemployment. you know, you know what i'm talking about. >> neil: got you, sir. denny, thank you so much. one of the better ceo's we've ever had out there. by the way we're fast approaching as denny pointed out the 11th hour, and they come to meet and figure out a way to get to the debt ceiling. they haven't arrived, that's a separate deal, we'll get there when we lahti da feel like it.

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