now we have to go through this again. president obama doesn't want that. but most likely president obama will be stuck with that now you know the real news for this thursday, july the 28th, 2011. continuing coverage throughout the night. first, mr. bill. >> ♪ >> laura: hi, everyone, i'm laura ingraham in tonight for bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us. on this very dramatic night in washington, d.c., we'll be on all the details. bill is in los angeles, but he is going to be with us in just a moment. here in the nation's capital today, all this back door wheeling and dealing as the house leadership tries to corral 216 votes to support speaker john boehner's debt ceiling plan. the vote has been delayed and if anybody's guess if there will be a vote tonight. though house majority leader eric cantor's office says it's going to happen. joining me now is fox news chief

white house correspondent of course ed henry and washington correspondent james rosen. great to see both of you. let's start with you, ed, you are right at the white house. i imagine they are following every detail here. tell us what the latest is from your vantage point. >> well, they are watching the drama like the rest of us, you are right. to some extent the white house believes that what's playing out on capitol hill is moot because they believe even if john boehner somehow corrals the votes in the next couple of hours and pushes his debt bill through the house. it's dead on arrival in the senate. in fact, senate majority leader harry reid is waiting for the bill to move forward with that. and kill it, essentially. harry reid's bill, meanwhile, would have trouble making it through his chamber let alone the house. and so what they are focused on here is there a third way, is there a plan c if you will. democratic officials believe they have had some early conversations that are good with some senate republicans about potentially splitting the differences, if you will, between the reid and boehner bills. but the clock is ticking, still no deal in sight.

we're about to hit the wall in terms of a default in just a few days. so they are watching this very closely, laura. >> laura: james, i'm hearing this that the house bill, if he manages to get the 216 votes or we will talk about this in main there f. there are extensions that allow him to pass the vote, then it moves to the senate. harry reid wants to push this thing through tonight. he doesn't want to see headlines tomorrow morning. house passes debt ceiling bill. it's in his court. he wants to get this thing off his court immediately. isn't the pressure on people like john tester, mark warner. other moderate democrats at that point if it goes through the house. >> sure, clare mccaskill. >> is that really a doa or head fake by the senate. >> it could go either way. i have had a lot of senate democrats and staffers tell me it's dead on arrival in the senate. >> laura: that's a narrative they have to say to put the dampers on. >> theatership going on in this entire episode. the time really isn't there for some sort of conference to meld the two bills. they are running out of time. and no one wants to face the

blame of well, there was a bill in the house and y'all didn't act. or at least it passed the house and you couldn't pass your own bill, so you are stuck with the fault for the default. that is a risk that they would run. so, in essence, you are right that reid in a way would be saved by the boehner bill passing. the question is what kind of fig leaf could be put on it for the question to sign it. >> laura: on this question about the debt ceiling, is it not true that the debt ceiling is going to be raised? it might not be this week, it might not be next week but it's going to be raised, or at least 300 people in the house that want it raised. enough senators that want it raised. this thing gets killed tonight in the house of representatives, isn't it -- the end point the same the debt ceiling is going to get raised so it's how good of a deal the conservatives can get out of this? >> you would think it's inevitable at some point because the consequences could be so stark that i'm not sure either party wants to live with the political ramifications. play well for us tore play well for them.

i'm not sure anyone has an idea if this thing really does spin out of control the way some have predicted i'm not buying it necessarily unknown. uncharted territory. predictions have been pretty stark. i'm not sure either party wants to test that right before the 2012 election. that's why i'm hearing whispers tonight that maybe there is going to be a 30 day or 60 day extension on the debt ceiling as you mentioned. carve that away from the spending cuts and other things and say let's figure some way out here on the spending cuts and do the bigger deal. but in the short-term let's not hit the wall on tuesday. >> laura: james, let's talk about the tea party angle here because we have had everyone from charles krauthammer, george will, everyone with credentials, the boehner bill maybe it's not everything we want. given what the political realities are of this moment, it's a lot there is no tax increases. how does the tea party's hand get strengthened if, in fact,

boehner's bill goes down? >> right. well, they feel that they can go home and campaign on the pledges that they made would have been atlanticing one particular member tonight tim scott, a freshman, two freshman named for the first time ever in the history of congress. a freshman delegate to the leadership. that was a huge deal that the leadership made a freshman a member of the leadership in essence. guess what, he has announced he is not going to vote for the boehner bill. that he was how he has been repaid. a number of people who told boehner and cantor at the beginning of the congressional session at the beginning of the year, you guys are making too big of a deal out of theist guys freshman elected in a wave election like lots of people who have spoiled them. they have been spoiled apparently. >> laura: what's the end game. >> the election, perhaps. >> laura: if, in fact, we see -- we have already seen 480 point market drop, if this thing doesn't go through. if, in fact, we push this issue of raising the debt ceiling off and it goes into next week, most people think the markets are going to continue to go down and, perhaps, collapse. we don't know but people are worrying about that if that

happens and. >> who profits? >> laura: who profit. who is going to believe that moderate democrats and moderate republicans aren't going to say, boehner cut the best deal you can. we have got to staunch the bleeding here. >> this is what has made bed fellows with boehner and president obama. president obama has been saying if this goes down if we fail to strike a deal, this is going to be a tax hike on every american. >> laura: ed, finally with you, do you see this playing out in any way that advances the tea party yms if the boehner bill depose down. >> if it goes down it could hurt the tea party obviously because it will look like they pushed him too far. i can tell you the frustration inside the house is why conservatives have not basically declared victory and signed on to something. as one white house aide was telling me yesterday, if you look to david cammeron in the u.k., conservatives have held him up as an example and he has gotten a deal in austerity package two one spending cuts to

tax hikes. conservativesconservatives havee times the spending cuts and essentially no tax increases. the white house basically says take the deal and walk away. declare victory already. >> james, great to see you both. thanks so much. up next the factor himself bill o'reilly is going to join us with his analysis ever the debt showdown. later, a rift in the republican party over what to do with this debt crisis. we will stay on that. back in a moment. also get a free flight.

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>> laura: continuing now with top story the standoff over the debt crisis. bill o'reilly who once again was supposed to be having a day off has instead been monitoring the situation. joins us now by phone from los angeles with his analysis, okay, o'reilly. tell us what you are seeing here. how is it playing out for both parties. the white house, house democrats, house republicans? >> first of all, it was a good interview with the guys up top. but i noticed a little tone change from your posture last week when i was anchor and you were the news interview subject to now when you are the anchor, i saw a little softening of the hard line position. did i pick that up wrong? have you changed a little bit? >> laura: no, i don't think you are picking it up correctly at all. my point right now is that they have gotten the best deal they can get with the leverage that they have exercised. if the tea party disagreed to

whatever they had agreed to several days ago, bill, which is my point last week then they wouldn't have gotten the deal they got now. so exercise the leverage. >> bill: you think that now the tea party should probably say okay, we are going to go along with boehner? >> i think the tea party -- yes, absolutely. because this is the best they are going to get. they are going to get a worse deal if this thing goes down in the house. no doubt about it because the debt ceiling is going to be raised one way or another. >> bill: look at big picture then because i think you are correct. i think that if the whole thing blows up once again, the tea party is going to get blamed they are going to be damaged. they are all going to be damaged, not just the tea party. it's interesting because on my way out here and i'm doing p.r. stuff for the company out in los angeles. i talk to a lot of people. people come up to me all the time. there is a lot of buzz about this story in the last few days it's picked up populist sentiment. people are dialing in. factor ratings are good.

interestingly enough, our ratings are so much higher than everybody else's in cable news. it's amazing. people are coming in and listening to what we have to say. here's my analysis of the big picture. president obama has not shown leadership. that going to hurt him drastically going forward. no matter what happens. so no matter what happens in this, the president is damaged. and i don't believe in the short-term. i believe it's going to carry over to the election. that's number one. number two, the democratic party is basically seen as a party that doesn't get it in the sense of the debt. they don't get the drastic nature of a 14.5 trillion-dollar debt. they are clueless if you want to use alyssia silverstone analysis. the republican party is looked upon as divided by the american people. that you have the boehner wing and you have the mcconnell wing, the john mccain wing, and then you have the tea party. those people are working against each other. so the republican party is

divided. so if you look -- step back, objectively and look at the big picture, nobody's gonna win even if a deal gets done. >> laura: we have seen the market drop 480 points in the last five days. >> bill: who predicted that? >> laura: most people are predicting that the market will drop precipitously. bonds are also down, if in fact no deal is reached. >> bill: i predicted that three weeks ago. three weeks ago. >> bill, we all know that this debt ceiling is going to be hiblegged because there are at least 300 people in the house who are v. said it's got to go up and enough senators. what is the best deal you can get? if you are a conservative. >> bill: yeah, i can't tell you what these pinheads are going to work out. i can't tell you. it's impossible. i'm not even going to waste the viewer's time with conjecture on it. i will tell you this. that the american public is now losing confidence in all of the parties. and absolutely in the current president. losing confidence. >> laura: yeah. but the president last friday

was clearly losing momentum, bill. >> bill: he is m.i.a. it's like where are you? >> laura: charles krauthammer said that east coast was when the momentum shift happened. he looked pathetic and he looked extremely weak to most people. even his own party were incredibly annoyed. sunday comes around the whole thing blows up. >> bill: no question that worldwide america's image all over the world has taken a hit. the german newspapers are saying that the u.s.a.'s power is now beyond diminishment beyond return. i don't believe that by the way. the president is taking enormous hit not only in the country but worldwide. the only thing that can save barack obama at this point is craziness on the right. the only thing that can save him. >> laura: bill, when you say craziness, let's just review. colonel allen west, big tea party guy, congressman, he swore the boehner plan. mike pence, big tamera guy.

he is for the boehner plan. paul ryan, the only guy to advocate what is it $6 billion in n his budget that would have actually satisfied all these credit agencies rating he is for the tea party plan. a minority of republicans and god bless them i think they were smart to hold everybody's feet to the fire and smart to do that but very small minority of republicans are going to blow up the whole deal and harm the republican party. >> bill: it's not only going to hurt the republican party, which has already been hurt, okay? , but it's going to save president obama, who they hate. they don't like him. >> laura: exactly. that's my point. >> bill: the irony is the people who dislike president obama the most on talk radio or cable news, wherever it is, the people who dislike him the most are helping him the most. have you got to stop this hateful rhetoric. some of the rhetoric is so hateful that independents will spin their head around. you have to say listen we are at

a point in history you can't have. this you pointed out a collapse in the stock and bond market. you can't do it. it's a fascinating political story it really is fascinating. i hope they awful say what's good for the country. let's go doo what's good for the country. >> laura: thanks so much. we appreciate it brand new poll on bill o'reilly.com. here is the question. how is speakers speaker of the house john boehner handling the debt debate? good, fair, or poor choose one. the tea party holdouts. we will hear from a republican member of congress who is going against his party's leaders. why are some saying there is no deficit problem? right back with those stories. i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full.

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>> laura: in the impact segment tonight, tensions flaring on capitol hill? we have every detail up to the minute and we will bring it to you. but, now, one man who is bucking his own party on capitol hill steve king, congressman from iowa, is going to vote no on the boehner plan. and we're waiting for that vote. congressman, how are you? you could miss the vote. maybe i will keep you here a little longer than i thought. >> maybe i will convert you, laura and you will send me back down there. >> laura: here is what i want you to explain to me. how do you propose by defeating the boehner bill, that you are going to get further down the road toward the goal that i think so many of us share, which is to shrink this government to get this debt under control. how will defeating boehner get. >> cut cap and balance. john boehner says that is our plan and we are sticking to it and had that been laid out or left on the table. we would balanced budget amendment. if it was clear that the votes aren't there to pass this, would

he would have stood on that ground. but if we concede this ground now, our chances of getting a balanced budget amendment passed in the 112thth congress go to nil. >> you actually think you are going to have more leverage after august 2nd than you do right now? >> i do, i do. >> laura: for the life of me, i have been trying to wrap my mind around that but i don't see it we have lost almost 500 points in the stock market in the last five days in anticipation of the -- bond markets have started to go down. people are worried about another collapse ie right before tarp when the market dropped 800 points. do you really think that boehner and mcconnell and moderate republicans, moderate democrats are going to sit by and be kind of held hostage by this idea that we have to pass a balanced budget amendment as the markets crumble and all these international markets are in turmoil. do you actually think the tea party then will be able to get, okay, we are definitely going to vote for a balanced budget now.

i don't see that. >> we have to remember this has been ginned up by the advocates for this kind of a policy. >> laura: i think the markets dropping that's just self-fulfilling prove. >> that's some indicator that people that didn't sell didn't lose any money. a week from now we will see how that actually looks. the language about default has been false language from the beginning. default now means in the minds of american people because all this debate that's gone on at the president level at tim geithner's level, at the leadership level has been about default being the first day that we run out of borrowing authority. default is if the united states doesn't service its debt. that just requires the first dime on each dollar coming in to service american debt. that's all it is. >> laura: steve, you and i have been warring together on the same side for how many years on so many issues from life to, you know, economy. we have people like charles krauthammer, george will, mike pence, colonel allen west, paul ryan, bill crystal, all these guys who i think they are

conservative bone fidz can't bona fis can'ting called into question. how is that they are all wrong and a very small minority of republicans. again, i like your ultimate goal. i'm with you on your ultimate goal. how is it that they are wrong and you guys are right when the goal is we all agree is cut, cap, and balance. >> partly they bought into what default is. >> laura: isn't it true if the markets collapse you will not be able to get your way with moderate democrats and also moderate republicans who are just going to say, you know something, we like the tea party people but to heck with them. we are going to vote to raise this debt ceiling? do you not think that's going to happen. >> first, there is going to be no democrat votes in the house of representatives for the boehner bill. 53 senators that have said it's dead on arrival they won't vote for it over there. >> laura: how is killing your speaker going to help the tea party movement. >> we have been led down this blind alley. we have to stand on the principles we believe in. >> laura: is john boehner a conservative. >> yes. >> laura: why is he doing this?

he is governing, the hard thing to do. >> he has said he doesn't want to face a government shutdown over the c.r. >> laura: will the government shutdown help the tea party movement. >> no. i don't want a government shut down. i have reintroduced language. not the president or the leader no one will lay out the agenda on what gets paid first on priorities. that's what needs to happen. pass a procedure station bill. we have got time. >> laura: do you think the debt ceiling is going to be raised not what you do want. >> i think it will be raised and i have said that for over a year. >> laura: when it is raised, do you think it will be raised with an amendment passed to push through the balanced budget amendment. >> it has a reasonable chance to do that. >> laura: on what indication? if the markets collapse as they already as some people are starting to say are collapsing. >> who wants it worse? >> laura: why won't people suddenly say we lost the boehner bill which has spending cuts which doesn't have as many. >> meet the ryan budget authority. >> laura: ryan budget was obviously shot down in the senate and we all supported it. it was dissed by the white

house. >> this bill the boehner bill concedes the ryan bill is no longer a target. >> laura: why isn't he supporting it is he another faux conservative. >> people have go along with this thing called a team. if there are no dissenters we will continue to go down the path. we have given up the leverage of the c.r. >> laura: i'm with you on the principles, but you have to get to the end game. >> if we don't assert this leverage here, we have no leverage to balance the 112th congress. that's the bottom line. >> laura: you are on the verge, i say this with great sadness to losing all the great leverage and gains have you made up to this point. that's my concern. there is a lot of conservatives out there who agree national review's online poll overwhelmingly for the boehner plan. we will see how it all plays out. >> we will see how it plays out in the long run. history will write it. >> laura: thanks so much for joining us. plenty more ahead as the factor moves along this evening. diehard democrat says there is no deficit problem.

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>> laura: in the unresolved problem segment democratic party did not seem to deficit problem. new york congressman jerry nadler says we don't have a budget crisis. the problem is unemployment. >> that's the real crisis. the unemployment. not the deficit. we don't have a deficit problem right now. the long-term we have a deficit problem we have got to get it under control but not right now. right now we have to get unemployment under control. >> laura: really? okay. joining us now fox news contributor joe trippi who was the campaign manager for howard dean. and what did you make of old jerry nadler? i think there is a shift in the discussion $14.5 trillion later. now it's not a deficit problem.

it's only an employment problem. >> that actually should have been a good piece of the democratic message. the whole time during the debt crisis thing. he has a point. i mean, one of the reasons you have all of these people out of work. they are not -- you don't pay taxes when you are out of work. you actually need unemployment benefits. we should be addressing that and neither party has been talking about it. >> laura: i think the republicans have been talking about 9.2% unemployment quite a bit. >> talking about in the debt crisis they have been talking about cutting, spending, cutting taxes. >> laura: but, joe. >> none of that is going to create jobs. >> laura: when the president came out, i forget how many times he has come out. every other night is he doing men mental press conference or speech. he disawnt talk about unemployment. is he not talking bun employment. >> the answer is on message. we should be talking about jobs. >> laura: joe, now now these credit ratings agencies says u.s. debt has to get under control. u.s. economy is in a free fall in their minds. if we don't get a structural change here.

>> there is a way to do that. they could have put billions in tax credits on the table that create jobs. to go along with the spending cuts. that would have actually been -- the democrats we want to create jobs and cut spending. >> laura: we tried that that t. was the stimulus bill. i feel bad for you. i'm putting myself in your position. thinking okay, if i were joe trippi and i had to sit there and defend stimulus that didn't work and health care unpopular and find out today it's going to raise the costs of health care in the united states. not shrink it. how could you defend this? i guess you are saying we should have done more spending, right? >> i think we should have closed tax loopholes and put the money into tax credits to create jobs. like rebuilding the country's schools. where corporations, companies that add jobs. >> laura: that's ultimately. some type of spending. that's how it would be scored. >> tradeoff and go deeper on some the spending cuts.

>> laura: you have a policy difference the way the administration has prior advertised. >> jerry nadler's point we should have been talking about jobs in this debate and we weren't doing that. >> laura: the problem with that, joe, is that then that focuses the spotlight back on biden, obama, i mean biden, i'm still trying to get over the hangover of the recovery summer from last year. >> 9.2 and people know that a lot higher. sole what they want to know is what are you doing about it. >> laura: what is the president doing about it? >> we're going to cut spending. >> laura: we tried a lot of other stuff. >> keep the bush tax cuts. >> laura: reform was going to be a job creator. >> recovery. all kinds of things that i think i would -- that you wouldn't have made. >> laura: let's move to this current debate though. the president wants this boehner bill to go down in flames. does he not? i mean, he said he wouldn't vote. he wouldn't support it he wouldn't sign it into law. he is watching this tonight. is he on the same side of the

ultimate outcome as steve king, my dear friend from iowa and other tea party folks who are going to vote against it isn't that odd? >> yeah. the whole thing is odd. the whole thing is crazy. if i were the tea party,. >> laura: what would do you if you were them. i tried to be in your position be in their position. >> i the vote for the boehner bill. hold a press conference sand say this whole debate none of it would have happened with the establishments of either party. it all happened because of us. if you wanted more like we wanted more, send more of us next time. instead what's going to ham they are. >> laura: i can't believe i'm agree weatherbug. >> blow this up and people are going to want to send less of them. it's crazy. just bad policy. >> laura: these are all my dear friends. i love them. but they are standing on principle. they think they give an inch and they will take a mile and it's will be the same old same old once again. that's what their concern is. >> you can't do this -- they have moved the country in the

debate. they got -- they have got. >> laura: no tax increases. >> they got the no tax increases. now they saying we got this, we got this. we got. this if you want more of that send more of us. that's the message. the message they got right now. >> laura: chaos in the markets. joe triple, great to see you. i tried to silt with you. and you trited to sit where they are sitting. that's fun. >> laura: can president obama recover from the damage this debt showdown has done to him? and then geraldo on the arrest of a muslim soldier near fort hood who is allegedly plotting an attack on military personnel. we hope you stay tuned for all of those reports coming up. use gnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally wityour colon than stimulant xatives, for fective reli of constipation without cramps. thanks. [ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna... the frontline plus killing force is there

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yesterday, the left is turning on him and his poll numbers as a result are down. joining us now from l.a., is fox news contributor leslie marshall and obama supporter and from new york, andrea tantaros, a co-host of the five at 5:00 here on fnc. all right, ladies, give us your take. let's start with you leslie. i'm hearing from my friends and, yes, believe it or not, i have a lot of liberal friends and they -- you know, they will whisper in my ear about things. they seem to be annoyed either way. they are annoyed by the boehner bill. they want it to go down in flames. they are also annoyed that this president seems to have given up too early on things like tax increases. increased spending and so forth. what's your take? >> well, i don't disagree that there is some on the left that are angry. we know that to be fact. i am angry with the reid bill in the sense that there is no tax revenue. but, at the end of the day, we as democrats we as americans we need to look at what is going to be worse for the american people? going to default or having not

everything we want in a bill? the best negotiation both parties walk away getting some of what they want. leaving some of what they wanted on the table. i don't see the same polls, laura. i have seen over the past week and a half support, 56% in the past 48 hours of americans, who support a combination which is what the president has been proposing all along, which, includes tax increases along with government spending. and i see the american people angrier at congress and the president and more so at the republicans and the democrats. so i don't think things are as bad for the president as some might believe. i don't think democrats are going to come up with a candidate to run against him. >> laura: andrea, you are looking at the gallup poll here and it looks like a lot of people in the public, they don't much like the way john boehner has handled things. they don't much like the way the president has handled things. boehner scores a little bit lower than obama right now. then again, his approval numbers are still, you know, not hot. and if this thing continues to drag on, how is he helped by any of this?

>> well, i think it depends on what happens. i mean, i think if we would default, that would hurt the president significantly. i think that if they do get some type of big deal the media is not going to write the headlines the president capitulated on spending. the president saved the day when he is giving rose garden ceremony. i don't disagree with leslie that he has lost support on the left. people like leslie are going to support him in the end. >> laura: where are they going to go. >> is there a primary challenge to obama? that's not going to happen. >> tea party folks when they're mad you hear about it. i'm with them 99.9% of the time. but then you hear about it. when the left is mad, you hear some, you know, a few grumblings from dianne feinstein and others. there is not going to be a tea party-like challenge to obama in the presidential race. right? >> i do think, to answer your question, there is not going to be a primary challenge. do i think though that he has been hurt by this far worse than his team ever expected. i think, laura, they are shocked that it has gone on as long as it has.

i think that they thought they could just paint the g.o.p. as crazy and think about this. the president came out and said he wanted a clean vote on the debt ceiling. he wanted taxes in there. he didn't want a short-term deal. and now, if you listen to what ed henry said, he might not get all three of those. we know he is not going to get two. look, i think he has lost big. i think what he promised to the american people, he would bring them around the bend. he has taken them down an alley of dismay and demagoguery. i think he will be judged for that in the end. he will be very unhappy. republicans don't look that great right now. leadership, it's often tough politically to lead. you will get bunched. barack obama stays out of this. he doesn't want a black eye. he doesn't want to get hit. >> laura: if republicans eat their own they are not looking too good. looking like the gang that can't shoot straight. it doesn't help them in this at all. leslie, here is where we are right now with the president. he didn't come out with his own plan, we didn't hear from him for the longest time on this issue. and suddenly even media folk,

not just ed henry but others are asking okay, what about your ideas? what about your plan? and he looks like for the longest time he was m.i.a. on leadership. that is what has also frustrated a lot of these democrats on capitol hill. they are left with all burden and they are left with all the heavy lifting to do. >> laura, i couldn't disagree more and i still am not able to shake the fact i have agreed with andrea on the first time in my life on some issues here. the president proposed his plan back in april and it was last friday, i believe, when all the press wanted to leave early for the weekend because it's the summer that he went line by line. he offered 4 trillion in cuts. he also said standing apart from his party. i believe he was being a huge leader it takes guts to say look, it's going to hurt. eat some peas. i'm going to talk cuts. the republicans walked away from 4 trillion. >> laura: john boehner walked away, leslie, because he wanted

more spending in the end. he changed the -- you know, the goal post in the middle of the conversation. they had agreed on something. and then suddenly it was changed because i think barack obama had heard from some of his -- you know, his liberal pals and that's how it went down. boehner was like, you know something? i'm done here. this is what we stand for. we are not going to increase the debt limit by any more than we cut. and, in fact, we want to cut more than any amount we increase the debt limit. those are my principles and i'm willing to die on that i will. i think that's what he said and that's how it all broke down. when the president came out on friday, i thought he looked incredibly weak and i think he looked weaker when he came out this week basically saying the same thing. i don't know why he had to speak twice. >> oh, yeah. >> i disagree totally. i think that, yeah, the republicans caring for about mr. nor quest. about their pledge and the tea party than the constituents and american people. it's hurting them. john mccain said it and bill o'reilly just said it a few

minutes ago. >> the president said the buck stops with me. he is the one on the ballot at the end of the day. >> in charge. >> as much as people don't like to see congress in chaos, this really does do severe damage to the president. he has ducked. when he came out with no plan to blame on monday night and interrupted tv, i think that really hurt him. >> laura: andrea, leslie, we appreciate it in a moment, geraldo rivera on the arrest of awol muslim soldier accused of plotting another attack on fort hood military personnel. what this debt debacle means for you in the end. gerri willis will be here to explain. right back with it.

>> laura: in the personal story segment tonight, police have arrested a 21-year-old muslim soldier for allegedly plotting an attack on fort hood. his name is private first class

nasaer j.abdo. he is an awol man from fort campbell, kentucky. found bomb making materials and weapons stashed in hotel room near fort hood. he was targeting military personnel thai at a restaurant right outside the base. >> how close was he to pulling this off? >> it's a good question. and i can tell you that we would probably be here today, giving you a different briefing had he not been stopped. >> laura: remember fort hood is the same texas post where an army psychiatrist also a muslim, went on a shooting spree in 2009. 13 people were killed. joining us now from new york with more, fox news anchor geraldo rivera, who has been following the situation. geraldo, this is just -- it's almost too much to take. the people of fort hood have been through so much. they have suffered so much. and now had this man not be stopped, who knows how this would have played out it looks like it would have been very

ugly. >> it would have been, laura. he was targeting a restaurant that g.i.'s frequent. he got an email from a friend of mine a colonel with whom i was in iraq on several occasions, really a great guy he said, quote, tactically a good news story that we caught the guy between military and civilian law enforcement cooperation. strategically sad. i predict as this will naturally raise suspicions in the ranks about muslim soldiers and the hurt -- and hurt the already tense relationships with peace-loving and patriotic american muslims truly sad, said this colonel. a combat veteran with whom i have had a dear relationship. so that's the problem. the problem is you have a situation where this will reflect and effect, you know, muslims throughout the services. there is already suspicion because of major hasan. and, you know, this nut job did more than just attempt an act of mass murder here, laura. what he has done is undermined fellow muslims who happen to be

in the service. what was he in the service for anyway? >> he was a conscientious objector. why was he there? is he motivated by muslim political views or really because he is being discharged because he was caught with child pornography at forth campbell. >> laura: we will find that on as the investigation goes on. we do know going back to major hasan that he actually did harbor deeply disturbing views about america's involvement in iraq and afghanistan and he carried around a card, remember, geraldo, that this is basically, you know, with jihadist brand line on it. okay. let's not forget that. >> i'm not forgetting anything. did i argue with o'reilly when hasan massacre happened saying, wait a second, is he truly motivated by his radical religious politics or is he just a nut job? in this case i think it will

become clear because of who he was targeting that he is indeed a homegrown domestic terrorist. i caution everybody. in 2009, the same year that hasan killed 13 of our dear g.i.'s at fort hood, earlier that year a sergeant named john russell, a white guy from texas killed five of his fellow g.i.'s in baghdad. so, you know, we don't call him a texas terrorist or a christian terrorist. we have to be very careful. >> laura: you still think we don't have a problem with radicalization of men, mostly men, in the united states who have made their way into, you know, these very important positions, who carry and harbor grudges and have plans for maiming and destroying american lives. do you think we have a problem in that or are we going to make it all just very neat tonight? >> here is what i caution. i saw you and bill earlier in the week with great sensitivity

talking about how christians and evangelical christians were being smeared by the relationship with this extremist, anti-immigrant nazi norwegian who slaughtered all those people over there. all i ask for is the same kind of caution that we don't lump everybody into the same stew. >> laura: of course they are not lumped in. this is radicalized jihadist movement worldwide targeting christians. we have catholic priests being executed during mass. we have people in egypt being killed on buses because they are christian. we have a massive religious cleansing going on throughout the cradle of christianity throughout the middle east. we have a real problem on our hands. and there is not a christian movement, thank goodness, to destroy any other people of a different faith. >> i just ask fair rules, treat every group the same. if a guy is motivated because is

he a child pervert, that's one thing. if he is motivated because he is extremist muslim views, that's another. >> laura: i think screaming out ala akbar is one of the signs that we should be looking for. >> it is indeed. i agree with that. >> laura: geraldo, thank you. even if a deal is reached before reaching the debt ceiling on august 2nd deadline there is still a threat that our credit rating is going to be downgraded anyway. we will tell you what that means to you and your family when the factor continues.

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call or click today. back in april the treasury secretary said there was no need to worry that our credit rating would be downgraded. listen to this exchange with peter barnes. >> is there a risk that the united states could lose its triple-a credit rating, yes, or no? >> no risk of that. you see the leadership of the united states of america, the president, the republican leadership in both houses and the democrats recognizing now, this is the right thing to do for the economy that we have to put in place now reforms that bring down the long-term deficits in ways that will strengthen future growth. >> just last week here is what president obama said. >> for the first time in history our country's triple-a

credit rate wok be downgrading leaving investors to wonder whether the united states is still a good bet. >> standard & poor's is warning that a downgrade is likely to happen. what changed and what would a downgrade mean? joining us is fox business anchor jerry willis. the willis report airs at 5:00 p.m. on fbn. you heard the sound bites, geithner, not a problem and obama this would be disasterrous if it happens. what happens in the credit is downgraded which many people say it is inevitable. >> i thought a downgrade intercept more and it would be a disaster for the country which will have to pay more. just increased interest card costs for the federal government and then for consumers a stock market selloff. you mentioned the 400 point selloff in the dow over the last five days. that could be child's play

compared to what we see. the bond market already hurting. credit default swaps already predicting there is trouble ahead and starting to see bond yields telling the same story there and then reamly comes home because -- really comes home because interest rates pop. greece, interest rates have gone up to 17%. can you imagine in this country the ten year bond goes to 17%, do you know what that means for mortgage rates. in they do the same thing. so people with variable rate mortgages would be hurt. people with credit cards hurt. interest rates go up across the board, becomes more difficult to get loans. the dollar becomes weaker and, of course, gas prices continue to go up. so it is a disaster for consumers and the government. >> and on the issue of default, people like governor rick perry say default is overblown is the problem. what is your take? >> the federal government does

have money to run the government through august. s&p and moodies, the big credit rating agencies they have our future in our hands if they downgrade and that could happen any time. it could happen well before august 2. a default, i hope against hope we don't go there. >> we appreciate it as always. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> and that is it for us tonight. we will be continuing to track what happens on capitol hill with this all important vote and also remember check out bill o'reilly .com. a big sale going on. only a few of the navy seal shirts left. become a premium member and get one for free. all the money he get there's goes to charity, all of this. follow me on facebook. pick up a copy of my new book. it is a "new york times" best seller, must kill them at the "new york times." thanks again for watching us