i'm bill o'reilly. remember the spin stops right here. we're definitely looking out for you. >> what makes today's stalemate so dangerous is that it has been tied to something known as the debt ceiling. >> we need to take action. this is deadly serious. >> the president has often said we need a balanced approach. >> this balanced approach, balanced approach, balanced approach -- >> which in washington means, we spend more and you pay more. >> i think this bill is perfect in its absurdity. his bill was perfectly absurd. >> we're saying yes again this week. >> no democrat will free-throw a short term band-aid approach. >> when is somebody on the other side of the aisle going to take yes for an answer? >> the oy compromise there is is mine. >> harry reid can't have it both ways. >> it's not going to get easier.

it's going to get harder. >> the president says he wants to get working. >> we might as well do it now, pull off the band-aid, eat our peas. >> it is time for the administration, the colleagues across the aisle, put something on the table! tell us where you are! >> balanced approach, balanced approach, balanced approach. >> the last train is leaving the station. >> want to announce that the leaders of both parties in both chambers have reached an agreement. >> this was a mess. there's no question, it was a circus at times. >> there are parts that i don't care for at all and other parts that i think are very wise. >> talking about pig in a poke, this is a pig in a poke. >> we're at a crossroads, a fundamental change for this government, a fundamental change for this country, but it's only a start. >> sean: breaking news today after a day of high drama on capitol hill the u.s., the debt deal is approved announced by president obama last night at the white house. the bill now heads to the u.s. senate where a vote is expected at noon on tuesday, but tonight

the spotlight was on the house and among the 269 members who voted in support of the measure was none other than arizona congresswoman gabrielle giffords who made a surprise return to the floor. this is the first time she visited the floor since january of this year, and as you can imagine she was greeted with a stirring round after applause from both sides of the aisle. now, that incredible moment of unity in the house was preceded by a day of disagreements as republicans and democrats voiced serious concerns over this deal on the right. members for michele bachmann, senator tom coburn have slammed the bill saying it does nothing to decrease spending, nor does it institute any really long-term reforms, and congresswoman bachmann will be here later in this hour. democrats are outraged over the fact that the bill does not trigger any new tax hikes on you, the american people. however, this is something that

we are keeping a close eye on, because it is the belief of many that the bill authorizes a so-called special committee to repeal the bush tax cuts and also possibly set into motion other so-called revenue enhancers down the road. joining me now for an exclusive interview, somebody who voted for the compromise, and he's the chairman of the house budget committee, wisconsin congressman paul ryan. always good to see you. >> good to be with you. >> sean: i know it's been a long battle, a difficult process. why don't you give us your take on it. you voted for it, why you think this is good for the person people. >> because we're cutting spending. look, is this everything i want? of course not. our budget proposed to cut 6.2 trillion. this cuts $2..1 trillion to $2.4 trillion. we actually got discretionary caps inxñ>fk law. i've been fighting forn@vgç thee spending caps ever since the day i came to congress. we couldn't get these kinds of spending caps in the bush administration.

this tells you how far the culture has changed. we got $2.1 trillion to $2.4 trillion in spending cuts. the president started asking for a blank check, then a big increase, he got none of though, and we kept our pledge, which is we will cut more spending we will raise the debt limit by. that pledge was maintained. >> the president will get just shy of a trillion dollars -- >> 900. >> sean: $900 billion in the debt ceiling. these cuts take place over a 10-year period of time. >> that's right. >> sean: how much are we getting the first year and how much are we getting the second year? how much is in defense? and how do we hold future congresses accountable to what you're doing today? >> right, that's a good question. $21 billion right away for the first fiscal year. then it's about 46, i think, for the second fiscal year. then $9 billion from what we call the security accounts. that's not just defense. that's all security.

homeland security, national security. then $2 billion to $4 billion the next year. so the cuts on defense are -- were minimized quite a bit by the most recent agreement john boehner reached. more to the point, how do you bank these cuts? what conservatives like me have been fighting for years are statutory caps on spending, legal caps in law that says government agencies cannot spend over a set amount of money. if they breach that amount across the board sequester comes in to cut that spending, and you can't cut that off without a supermajority vote. we got that in law. that's here. legal caps in law, we haven't had since the 1990s. we now have them. in the committee, the special committee, is tasked with getting the $1.1 trillion to $1.5 trillion in cuts. we're not going to raise taxes.

>> sean: are you on this committee? >> they haven't been named yet. we won't people on this committee that won't go for that. the baseline they used, the measuring stick they use for this committee, makes it basically impossible to raise taxes, because to raise taxes and get credit for it in this committee you would have to commit a $3.5 trillion tax increase. the bush tax cuts go away, the minimum tax goes in, and -- >> sean: i know you know budget numbers better than anybody here. the cbo, though, is scoring this bill to include that the bush tax cuts expire. >> no, no. the cbo does not -- that is not true. >> sean: not true? that's what i've been reading all day. >> i know. the cbo baseline assumes that. current law -- this bill doesn't address tax policy. this bill cuts spending. this bill is scored as cutting $2.1 trillion to $2.4 trillion

in spending. >> sean: right. >> the bush tax cuts going away, and more. this doesn't change current law on taxes. this changes current law on spending only. >> sean: all right. i guess the problem is, and i've been trying to explain this -- you know this as well as anybody. and this is the problem i have with the bill, i agree there's been changes, there's no tax increases here. i was very happy with the house. i want to be clear about this, about repealing obama care, about passing your plan, about passing cap and tax. i felt that strategically and tactically -- and tell me where i'm wrong here -- that when the competing bills came out, the gang of six, the mcconnell plan, and the president had alternatives that the one bill we should have focused on the most didn't get the attention it deserved. >> i agree with that. cut, cap and balance. >> sean: s&p and moody's is

seeing neither bills meets muster and we'll be downgrading. >> a couple of things. this bill cuts spending. this bill caps spending. this bill for the first time in 50 years forces a vote on the balanced budget amendment. we'll have a vote on that. >> sean: can harry reid table that? >> no, he can't. that's part of this deal. we'll have a vote in the house and senate on this bill. we cut spending, cap spending, and get a guarante guaranteed vn balanced budget amendment. we can't guarantee it will pass. we're getting 60% of the spending cuts we called for in our budget in discretionary spending. look, i wanted 100% of what i wanted, but i got 66%. that's better than nothing. more to the other point, here's our problem. barack obama is president, harry reid is the majority leader. we control just the house. we're not getting everything we want because we have divided government. we said no rubber stamp to the president, no tax increases, and we got good spending cuts. not as much as i want, but i'm going to take these spending

cuts and fight for more. >> sean: congressman, this is important. i spend a lot of time on the program, and i know that louie talked to you about -- >> he did. >> sean: apparently you promised you'd move this in your committee. >> baseline budgeting. >> sean: baseline budgeting. for example, we'll save these trillions that you talk about, but every year spending for the federal government -- correct me -- an increase every year of about 8%. the mac penny plan, which louie was talking to you about, freeze spending levels at 2011 levels, and cut spending. american people -- either that or cut, cap and balance. i thought your plan was a good start. if we don't deal with this baseline issue, increase spending 8% a year while the american people are covering, we'll never get to a balanced budget. >> i've been offering budget process reform for years.

>> sean: yeah. >> we need to fix the baseline joke. we'll be doing line item veto, more spending caps, fixing this baseline issue. let me just leave you with this. this bill brings discretionary spending lower next year it is this year. that's never happened before. for two years in a row now, not -- we're not slowing the rate of growth, we're actually bringing spending down so it's lower next year i next year tha. >> sean: how much less? >> $21 billion less next year than this year. then it goes down to 46 next year versus the prior year. >> sean: so real dollar spending doesn't go up% next year? >> i'm talk being discretionary spending. medicare, medicaid, all that autopilot spending, that spending is on autopilot. that's why you need to do entitlement reform. those grow because baby boomers

are retiring, healthcare innation is going up. congress doesn't have control of those spending programs, which is 60% of our budget, on any given year. that's why we want to reform those budgets too. >> sean: paul ryan, appreciate your time. i hope you can get to the baseline issue, because for me if we're going to cure the problem -- you know these numbers well -- we've got to deal with that. >> i agree. >> sean: congressman, good to see you. thank you. >> you too. >> sean: coming up, continued coverage of tonight's breaking news. this bill will head to the u.s. senate for a vote tomorrow at noon. when we come back, dick morris is here. we'll ask him what we can expect, how this deficit deal will impact the 2012 race. that and much more straight ahead.

>> sean: breaking news tonight. a short time ago the house of representatives green-lighted a bill on the debt limit. the deal now heads to the u.s. senate where a vote is scheduled for the early afternoon. that's tomorrow at noon. but while the bill easily moved through the house, and is expected to pass the senate as well, the problems liberals and conservatives with the legislation is bound to cause problems and issues for 2012. joining me now with a loo look h why the framework will rear its ugly head, former clinton advisor, dick morris. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> sean: before we get to that, it really aggravates me, the 2010 election, which was historic, was because of the tea party. i think even the changes were as

a result of the tea party and conservatives. >> absolutely. >> sean: they elected people they hired, and they said, do this job. >> yeah. >> sean: congressman mike doyle of pennsylvania said the following about this bill, and he said that we have negotiated with terrorists a mall group of terrorists have made it impossible to spend any money. they get $3.7 trillion. joe biden then goes on to say safely the same thing -- they have acted like terrorists. then later on he apologized for it. we'll put it up on the screen. you can read it yourself. here's the tea party seems to be the group in america that's standing on their principles. they've not wavered. this is why they hired everybody. now they're being called terrorists by the vice president of the united states and by a congressman. >> the tea party is in effective control of the budget process now, and thank goodness it is. these changes, which are monumental, never would have happened without the tea party, without their strong, strong pressure. and like any pressure group,

they're never satisfied. that's fine. we still have a $1.4 trillion deficit. they shouldn't be satisfied. but the point is that the people who work for the tea party and put it together, and have pushed it, are the ones who are the heroes of today. >> sean: i agree with you. i think for anybody to say this, it's unfortunate, because as i was just speaking with -- >> by the way, they may be terrorists in the sense that they terrified the democrats. >> sean: yeah, whatever. but the point is, you know what, this is an effective voice. we're now headed for $25 trillion in debt. we'll still spend 8% more next year than this year. that's entitlement spending. until we deal with the baseline and start cutting to some extent and deal with entitlements, democrats are screaming. it's like crack cocaine for these guys.

>> the real question which your introduction raises, is how do you enforce the second half of this deal? >> sean: yeah. >> the $1 trillion is fine. if we knew there were a second trillion, we'd all vote for this deal. the question is, how do you get the second trillion? once you extend the debt limit through 2012 and give obama that power, you've essentially taken your coercion away. you no longer have a tool to force him to keep his word. the committee may vote a very responsible package of spending cuts. but you have no guarantee that's going to pass the congress. i believe that the answer is we had three cards in our hand. the resolution, boehner squandered it. the debt limit deal, he negotiated a very good deal. our third card is the 2011-2012 budget that starts october 1st. i know the republicans should say, we are not going to vote a budget, we're going to vote a continuing resolution for three months. then on january 1st, we'll look back and see whether you mated the cuts -- made the cuts

or not. if you didn't make them, we'll make them. >> sean: the problem is -- paul ryan just explained this. the president gets $900 billion right away to raise the debt ceiling. the first two years is only $67 billion in cuts. >> yeah. >> sean: it's always back-loaded, and -- >> don't worry about that, sean. we'll win the election and keep our promises. >> sean: basically it comes down for the conservatives and tea party to be ultimately successful they've got to water-resistant election. >> yeah. >> sean: what about strategically and time beingickically, didn't the republicans -- how is it the house does all the work, the senate cuts their legs 4 legs om under them? why didn't they do cut, cap and balance and -- >> we don't control anymore than one-third of the government. >> sean: why didn't they stay firm together? that's what i'm asking. >> they're not that firm. you have 150, 120 good fiscal conservatives, and the rest are a little squishy.

there's one other huge impact of this deal, which don't let's not forget, it's more important than anything else we've talked about, it cripples obama's chances at re-election. >> sean: why? >> because he looked weak, indecisive to the liberals he looked like a cave-in. to the conservatives and independents he looked like a last-ditch advocate of taxes and spending at any cost. if you looked at bill clinton's job approval from the minute we started the fight with gingrich and dole, his approval went up. obama looks terrible. all the polls measure him against boehner, but boehner is not running for anything. >> sean: mitt romney is beating him by eight points. >> and before that was trailing. >> sean: the independents in this country are turning. >> they've turned. the point is, if you make him go

through this again, which you could do, if you do what i'm suggesting, he'll look even worse. but this debt deal served one political purpose. it doomed barack obama. >> sean: all right. i hope you're right. dick morris, good to see you. only as much as we need to live within our means. coming up, we need to keep our eyes on news out of washington tonight. plus we'll get reaction from congresswoman michele bachmann up next. she says this bill does nothing more than put us on the same more than put us on the same road as greec at exxon and mobil, we engineer smart gasoline that works at the molecular level to help your engine run more smoothly by helping remove deposits and cleaning up intake valves. so when you fill up at an exxon or mobil station, you can rest assured we help your engine run more smoothly while leaving behind cleaner emissions. it's how we make gasoline work harder for you. exxon and mobil.

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>> sean: tonight we're monitoring a lot of late-breaking developments related to tomorrow's debt deal vote expected to take place at high noon in the $senate. we're hearing from both senate majority leader leader harry reid and minority leader mitch mcconnell that the measure will pats and that means it will ultimately end up on the president's desk for signature, but make no mistake this debate over this controversial agreement will not end there. this debt deal will not be among the hot button issues of the 2012 campaign. one of the house members who voted against the bill today is gop presidential candidate minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann. she joins us live tonight from washington. congresswoman, how are you? >> i'm doing great, sean. nice to see you again. >> sean: now, i really hope and pray we're not becoming greece, which is a comment you made that's been picked up a lot. what did you mean by that?

>> well, we're continuing to spend money that we don't have by an order of magnitude that we've never seen before. in all of my travels over south carolina, new hampshire, iowa, it's been fairly unanimous, sean. people across the country have said, please stop the out-of-control spending. whatever you do, don't increase the debt ceiling, because people see that under almost every scenario president obama gets this $2.1 trillion to spend, and we're getting $21 billion in cuts. people are saying that's not good enough. they want us to really change the ways of washington. they're not seeing they're being listened to. >> sean: what, then, happened? again, i'm less inclined to blamblame the house after they d the legs cut out from underneath them, the day after the gang of six made their announcement. the president said we have another deal, don't worry about

that one. that's dead on arrival. i'm going to veto it anyway. so, you know, what happened in the process? because a lot of conservatives, like myself, think that, you know, $60 billion in two years doesn't justify $900 billion increase immediately. >> well, that's what -- i think the american people agree with you. that's what a lot of the polling data has said, certainly anecdotally, too. people connect the facts, when government is overspending to that amount that it impacts job creation. when i was in iowa, a company has lost 50% of all of their employees. cisco is laying off 6500 employees. boeing who would love to add shp &c@ laying off people in california. these companies, sean, they can't make cuts over 10 years. they have to make them immediately. government doesn't act like that. >> sean: yeah. i guess what -- what i -- i

guess what conservatives, tea party members, and you're well known in the tea party movement, want to know is this, because -- all right. if we're now at $16.5 trillion as a result of this deal, $16.7 trillion in debt by the end of this deal, okay, so that gets us past the 2012 election, if we're going to add 8% a year in new spending every year because of entitlements that have not been reformed, spending, etc., etc -- and paul ryan's right, they did cut back, a reduction in discretionary spending, but still going up 7.5% to 8% a year, that leaves us somewhere around $25 trillion in debt. if we get to that point, we'll be downgraded. that means interest rates go up. people have less money for consumer spending. that means that businesses are less likely to invest. that means that the unemployment spiral continues, dependency increases. you know, when are we going to start arguing the real numbers sneehere?

well, that's right. that's my point, because all of this overspending does impact job creation. unfortunately the lack thereof. and that's why people want government to do what they have to do, what local businesses have to do, and that's be sure you don't spend more money than what you take in. that's why what people want to know is will someone do what has to be done. we need tough love. we didn't see a lot of tough love out of this deal. and people recognize something. they're already paying taxes to the tune of $2.2 trillion every year. >> why do you think that -- instead of arguing about baseline numbers, do you think that the republicans feared -- and maybe justifiably so -- that they were going to be blamed in the end here if there was a -- the president was using all these scare tactics. do you think there was a fear that that responsibility would be on their shoulders and they thought there was too high a political price to pay at this

moment? >> that's all the process questions. what i hear -- in reality, where people live -- they're paying $2.2 trillion in taxes. government is overspending by a trillion and a half. what that means is people are seeing that very soon they're going to have to pay almost double in taxes what they're paying now. and they can't do it. not if you don't have jobs and not if you don't have wage increases. that's the difference. people see that the economy is being negatively impacted. they feel like no one is listening to their voice. they want someone to come to washington and say no. they want someone to come to washington and say, stop this nonsense, listen to us, and do what has to be done. they really -- you know, they're watching the political games, but they want us to do the right thing. >> sean: do you think republicans failed them? >> well, i think that what we should have done is not raise the debt career, and instead prioritizes the spending. we needed to make sure we didn't

go into technical default, that the military men and women got paid, but from there we had to make serious cuts. unfortunately the can's been kicked down the road. now we have government that we obviously can't afford. >> sean: this is why i think independents are moving away from the president, because we've never seen a president -- >> that's right. >> sean: we now borrow 40 cents of every dollar you spend. >> 43 cents. it will be more. >> sean: okay, 43 cents. we borrow $120 billion a month. we only take in $180 billion. so we borrow another $120 billion more. >> we can't do it. the math doesn't add up. that's why people want someone to stand up, say no, and speak for them. that's what i'm trying to do, speak for them. >> sean: congresswoman, appreciate you being with us. thank you. >> thank you, sean. >> sean: coming up, we'll monitor all the developments from d.c. we'll bring you all the latest live as they happen. plus, to say they strongly disagree about who's screwing up worse in washington, well, that

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>> sean: last week right here on two of our panelists went head-to-head over the debt ceiling debacle. here's a quick recap in case you missed it. >> the problem here is the president -- >> no, it isn't. >> let me finish this point. >> no, it's not. >> the republicans are interested in advancing their politics. they're not interested in the country. >> that's not so. >> excuse me. let me finish. let me finish! >> no. i'm tired of this crap. they're milking this thing. >> the president is the leader, and he's doing this crap.

>> the factor of the matter is both parties are screwed up. >> that is not true. will you stop interrupting me? >> no, i won't. >> you don't have a right to keep doing that, for god's sake. >> joining me for round two, former pollster for former president jimmy carter, fox news contributor pat cadell, and on the salem radio network, hugh hewitt. by the way, what was the push with the hand thing going on there? >> it was just 'cause i can't function very well. we worked it out. i planned this out. >> for you did no no, you didn'. >> i'm just kidding. >> >> sean: i was thinking i'd have to rip my mike off and save you guys, hugh. >> i would give a big hug if i was there to pat. the fact remains the difference remains.

he went to washington to work for jimmy carter, i went to work for ronald reagan. facts are stubborn things. it's not both parties' fault. >> you couldn't be more wrong about that. let me tell you who agrees me. i spoke at a conservative summit, juan williams was there, dick morris, i ripped up both parties, and they gave me a huge standing ovation. you have a problem with them, as well as the polls. the problem is both parties are bad. >> i was in ohio with republicans, and they don't agree with you. here's the fact that you need to understand. in 2006, when the republicans controlled the congress last and had the president, the deficit was $269 billion. five years into the obama/pelosi/reid administration we have a deficit of $1.65 trillion. when democrats have any part of the government, they go crazy.

they don't spend like drunken sailors, they spend like a drunken navy. >> the difference between you and i, i think the democrats are drunken sailor spending. the republicans are doing that. a couple points i made there. you know, your republican leadership are the people who abandoned obama care just as soon as they passed that bone they threw out on repealing it. they have not pursued that issue they promised their base they would do. their the ones of freddy and fannie. you know why? both sides were caught up in the corruption. >> let me bring your focus back here, because i think this is really important. i think what's happening here, if you a lot polls, the president's poll numbers have never been lower. every metric that we have for the president on the economy -- hugh, i'll throw this to you -- is negative. independents now, he's down to 34%. the independents are the ones who elected him.

so there's a mass rejection of obama. you know, to lose 15 points, as dick morris was saying, throughout this debate, this process, i don't care, anyway you slice it, $4 trillion of obama debt in less than three"ss economy --th the they will blame, all rightly so, him. this is his economy. they were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. >> sean, you're exactly right. i prefer facts to focus group fantasies. the fact is that this president's tenure has been worst of any modern president. it is a disaster. the fact that the democrats get a free ride. joe biden actually said to his democratic colleagues today, that the tea parties are like terrorists. can you imagine if dick cheney were to refer to democrats as terrorist what would happen in the media? this party, the democratic party, is out of control. it is not a bipartisan problem. it is a democratic party spending problem, and a partisanship problem that, pat, because of reasons going back to

his longtime friendship with a lot of democrats will not embrace. his problem is candor. >> let me tell you something. speaking about candor, look, i'm as critical -- the difference between i and you, hugh, i'm just as critical of the republicans as democrats, and you are not, whether it's passing as they did last spring that budget resolution. the reason this deal is worthless is because last spring, when we had the budget resolution, remember, $35 billion, $50 billion we were going to get with cuts, we -- the republicans soar stupid, they gave obama what he needed most. he would have sold anything to not to not have this issue again, and they gave it to him. >> when obama got the budgets he wanted, the stim he wanted, the president got obama care, which he wanted, he increased discretionary spending 84%.

this is obama's debt and deficit. you don't deny that? >> well, everybody did this over 20 years. nobody's done it like obama. >> right look, the republicans surrendered in december after they won the election. why don't they simply say, hey, let's tax ge. >> sean: by the way, hugh, you're making him sweat. i can see it. >> no. it's because -- >> sean: don't want the dales. >> no, you don't want. >> >> sean: probably better you weren't in the same room today. thank you for both being here. we have a great thanks to the venture card from capital one, we get double miles on every purchase, so me and the boys earned a trip to dc twice as ft! oh hi! we get double miles every time we use our card. and since double miles add fast... one more chariot please. ...we can bring the whole gang! i cannot tell a lie. he did it. right... it's hard to beat dole miles! read mlips -- no new axes!

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he's a former deputy assistant secretary of state, fox news contributor, "usa today" contributor, cohost of "the five," bob beckel is here. jamie weinstein is here, a former chairwoman and a republican strategist. the real problem is this, there's too much spend nothing washington. too much. and there's too big a deficit. and we've got to balance the budget at some point. we're headed for $25 trillion in debt. so the question is, is there ever going to by point where we can get democrats and republicans to say we're not going to increase spending at all for five years in a row? >> i certainly hope not. why do you have to have a balanced budget? >> oh, my gosh. every state has to have one. >> well, every state.

half those states, it's all a scam. >> we're losing our aaa bond rating. >> we won't lose it. >> how much do you want to bet? >> from moody's, the same bought and paid for crowd that gave all those mortgage-backed securities an "a" rating? >> sean: yes. >> they're full of it. >> sean's right, they're not full of it. >> sean: came that close, for crying out loud. >> can i say one thing? if i had been in congress today, just to save obama and the debt ceiling before the tea party people took us into a disaster, i would have voted yes, but, man, i tell you, it is anti-poor children and favorable to millionaires and billionaires. >> you should not call the tea party, our friends, patriots, terrorists. terrorists, anarchists. >> why? >> that's so un-american. that's terrible. they're the ones that took the conversation, took the battle to closer to try to get us out of this mess. we're like the roman empire. the fall of the roman republic.

it's that serious. >> can i point out what i think i guess the worst part of this bill? i think defense cuts are terrible in the bill. the worst part is it allows people in congress to pretend like they're doing something for the next six months, because the next six months are dominated by this commission, looking for $1.6 trillion in 10 years. that's pittance. >> there's good recommendations. let's remember something, on a serious note here, the bowles-simpson commission was initially supposed to automatically go to congress, but they had to do an up-and-down vote. >> obama rejected it. >> no, it got beaten back in the senate. it ended up being a commission. this is a select committee like watergate. >>sãuvç bob, why was it also jua commission? the president never even brought it -- >> you're right, it should have been, but this committee that they formed, a select committee, like watergate was, for example, and they have to report out, it has to be a vote within a certain number of days, up and

down, no amendments, no filibusters. let's just hope that there's a possibility that there's some entitlement reform and oother things in that that might cut spending. >> sean: i have to give the tea party a lot of credit. they've shifted the debate, changing the country in a positive way. they're calling attention to a severe problem. but the vice president of the united states, to call them terrorists, for democrats to call them terrorists, you, on your program, have called them anarchists. >> and terrorists? >> sean: you called them terrorists, too? you know, how do you justify that? >> let me put it this way. i agree with you, they brought this issue -- though deserve credit for being -- they deserve credit for being it to the forefront. >> sean: if i called democrats terrorists, you'd say that was over the top. >> i apologized today. if i offended any tea party, i apologize. >> the president is not doing anything. >> this is the kind of thing i have to listen.

you know why i want to know get mad? because right wingers jump in the middle of my apology and -- >> sean: dee dee, go ahead. >> you should be mad on the president for putting us in this mess. absolutely no plan. never been able to answer that. >> he and boehner had a plan for $4.5 trillion. >> now, there's a national security issue -- >> there was $6 trillion under george bush. >> oh, my gosh, why don't we blame george washington? >> sean: we got to take a break. we'll get back to the joe biden comment about the tea party, which is outrageous -- >> i thought we covered it. >> sean: no, we didn't. i got a few more questions. ♪

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>> sean: we continue with our great american panel. bob's won't like this, but liberals aren't that happy. john conyers is organizing an anti-obama protest. maureen doyd's column, worries that he's turning into jimmy carter, that he was neutered. they fret that obama is an inept negotiator, etc., etc. jesse jackson, obama is getting steamrolled in the debt negotiations. and paul krugman, the president

surrenders. he's got his own problem. >> president carter should be thanking president obama, because now he's the worst president in the history of the american presidency, for sure, without a doubt. where is donald trump when you need him? >> sean: trump had great comments today. >> great comments. >> sean: saying at some point you got to balance the budget. >> from a guy that's gone bankrupt. >> she's very successful. he deals with china. it's an embarrassment. the whole world sees how weak we are. >> he's not for free trade. the larger problem is that america can choose to decline or we can choose to lead the 21st century. what we're doing here, we're cutting defense, not getting our entitlements under control, and that's a choice to decline, and allow other countries to rise up as a social power. i don't think we should be doing that. >> in that sense michele bachmann is right, america is on

a trajectory to greece. that's why independents -- forget the fact i knew that this was the obama that was elected. a lot of people didn't listen to me. forget sean hannity, conservative. the polls, bob -- and you are a big poll reader -- the polls are not wrong. >> yes. >> sean: independents are leaving him in droves. his measurement on the economy is atrocious by every metric. >> gee, there's a surprise. >> sean: wait a minute. that's the point. he's losing people. >> listen, listen. first of all, your attacks on obama -- >> everyone has. >> for you to say he's the worst president -- >> he is the worst president. >> you got to study american history. >> i'm a history major. >> richard nixon wasn't the worst president? >> he's worse than them. >> whoa. >> sean: let me tell you what this says. the limited magnitude of the plans would not put the nation's aaa credit rating back on solid if you get. reductions of the magnitude proposed, if adopted, which they

were, as they talk about moody's, would likely lead moody's to adopt a negative outlook on the aaa rating. the chances of a significant improvement in the long-term credit profile is not going to happen. >> can i just say one thing, you're talking about michele bachmann saying we're on the road to greece, is a totally unintelligent, naive statement. >> no, it's not. >> the difference between us and greece, we can actually stop us from becoming greece if we make the right steps. it's within our power. greece was already down that road. >> sean: this is the most predictable financial crisis in mankind. >> it's not a financial crisis. >> yes, it is. >> we could easily print another trillion dollars and put people to work. >> it's that serious. >> it's relevance. we owe $6 trillion of that to ourselves, to the government. right? there's another $3 trillion owed by the american people. the entire foreign ownership of this debt is $2.4 trillion. >> from ancient history on,

whenever countries die, it's for financial reasons. >> sean: didn't obama say the worst economy since the great depression? he's saying the economy is awful. you're saying we can print money? >> you're not saying the economy is better than when he took office? >> it's way worse. >> it's been a long day, i'll let it go, but you all have gone to oz and lost your mind. >> sean: 4.5 trillion in new debt. unemployment still 9.%, real unemployment 18%. >> let's hope this crisis inspires candidates sittings on the sideline, chris christie, paul ryan jump into the race. >> sean: you want trump to run? >> he'd be great. >> oh, my gosh. i wish daddy gave me all that money myself. >> we have a balanced budget in indiana and a billion dollar surplus, by the way,. >> sean: donald trump is successfuln