of us. thanks for being with us for this special edition of "on the record". see you next time. this is a fox news alert from new york, standard and poor's moving late friday to down grade the coveted triple a credit rating to a double a plus in spite of a deal reach bid lawmakers to increase the debt limit. the down grade could raise rates of credit cards, mortgages and car loans feking millions of americans. s and p refused a last minute request to delay the credit down grade. the treasury department claiming there is a $2 trillion error in the agency's analysis. joining us live on the phone is senator mike lee, republican from utah and author of the freedom agenda. senator, what are your feelings on this down grade? >> i think this down grade is

very unfortunate. and it's confirming what we've known for a long time. and it confirms that this debt is a threat for our count skpri economy and our way of live. and we have to abandon the current pattern of phone shall deficit spending this, is what is killing us and what we're warned about and proceeded anyway with increasing the debt limit without putting into place permanent spending reforms. we needed to avoid it. >> and senator lee, do you think this is going to be the pressure necessary to get lawmakers back in there to try to find further cuts to spend something. >> i certainly hope so. i expect that it will will be. it's unfortunate it had to get this bad before we'd be willing to take that step. i hope and expect lawmakers at this point will understand the fact that the time has now come for us to impose permanent spending reforms and we can only get the kind of

reform we need through an amendment to the constitution that restricts congress's borrowing authority. >> you know a lot of people out there watching or wondering how this is going to affect me. they're wondering... >> we're hearing this is going to make it harder to get loans and that is going to as well. >> and it's unfortunate but this is something that i think will have a debate. and we've been focusing far too long on the branches and we need to get down to the root of the issue. and congress has an urge to engage in professional deficit spending and this has to stop. >> all right, senator, thanks for joining us. and again, standard and poor's moving to go head and down grade the nation's coveted credit rating to a double a

plus. this is the first time this happened. we've had triple a since 1917. now back to "hannity". for headlines log on to-to-fox news.com. >> and good evening, welcome to a special "hannity". tonight sitting down with former south carolina governor for a full hour, in 2002, mark sanford elected 115th governor and became a leading figure in the republican party. now, by 2009 serving as the chairman of republican governors association, many believe he could be a leading g.o.p. contender for president of the united states that. changed in june of that year. >> it's started on june 22 when the law enforcement division raised concerns about governor sanford's whereabouts. the governor's wife told the

ap she did not know the location of her husband. media frenzy was ignited and his car located at the airport but where was he? the staff said he was taking time off to quote, recharge after the stimulus battle but declined to say where he was. later in the day his spokesman said he was hiking on the appalachian trail but that didn't put the bizarre trip to rest two. days later the governor return returned. governor sanford is spotted walking through the atlanta airport and tells a state newspaper he was not hiking along the appalachian trail, but rather in argentinea, immediately speculation started swirling. the press didn't have to wait long for answers. the governor would hold a press conference. >> i'm a bottom line kind of guy. i will lay it out. and we'll let the chips fall where they may. in so doing, let me first of

all apologize to my wife and our boys. the bottom line is that i've been unfaith tofl my wife. i developed a relationship with a very dear, dear friend from argentina. it began innocently as these things do. and you know back and forth in advice on live and here recently this last year developing into something more. and as a consequence, i hurt you all. i hurt my wife, i hurt my boys. and i hurt a lot of people.

>> the governor reveals that the extramarital affair had gone on for months. >> i am going to resign. >> but he didn't say whether or not woe resign as south carolina's governor. reporters immediately began asking about his next step. >> will you resign as governor? >> the governor resisting calls for resignation as more facts began to surface, jenny sanford saying she knew about the affair and asked her husband to leave two weeks earlier. days after the revealing press congress -- conference, governor sanford dropped a bomb shell, admits this wasn't the first time he'd been unfaith tofl his wife and said, quote, i will be able to die knowing i met my soul mate but waits one of those things i knew the cost. the news was out and the damage to his political career, done z he continued to serve as governor until his term ended in january, 2011.

and joining me now for a first interview since the news broke about his extramarital affair is former south carolina governor, thank you for being here. >> pleasure. >> it's interesting. i read a lot about your life. it -- it is almost i won't use the term split personality but i read about your background, your family life. your life growing up. your values, things you did as governor. you, your faith. you're a staunch christian conservative governor. what -- how do you explain who sides of your life? >> you know, i -- i think that that is one of the $94 question in life, reality of our own humanity. none of us are perfect. i think that if there is

lesson learned here for me over two years and a lot of reflection it is the significance of god's grace and the grace of others because reality is that everyone of us are imperfect. >> sean: everything you did, you were on a path, a lot of people talking about you may one day be the president of the united states. you know about that talk? >> yes. and i don't think it's particularly constructive to look back on the might have beens of live. i think the reality is that you are where you are and i think the important part is port of looking forward what. have i learned? and i would say that, you know i said to a friend the other day i probably had more to offer as a human being than i have a smaller can vass to paint on here in the short term. but that is the reality of everyone of our lives is it may be a financial crisis, it may be a personal crisis. it may be, you go down the

laundry list of things. i used to read papers and boy read and i'd say, you know lose or loser, how do they make these mistakes? i say by the grace of god you're alive. >> sean: it's interesting. you see this happens with politicians. recently, anthony weiner, before that john edwards running for president of the u.s bill clinton in the oval office. are those the people you used to refer to what a loser? what an idiot? i see d.see comments. >> i'm not aiming at any one person, just saying generally. i keep going back to lessons learned. whether it's on a judgment front, on the need for grace, again, i think that the probably the more constructive thing is to take a look at not what one might have done or how did you get things wrong but what did you learn from it? and a welcome lesson there. >> sean: you say you're probably more prepared now to

be a leader in a sense, there has been a lot of talk about maybe reentering the political world, are you considering that? >> no. i'm not. what i'm say sthag i don't think in ways you lived until you've failed. hopefully not in a monumental level but i think there is a period of a time in the desert that you cannot appreciate until you've been there. i think that for those of us who are chiefers and in my life it's been one way, you never stop long enough to really do the soul searching that comes for the time. >> sean: let me talk about the word example. the conflict i see in you. you have this relationship with this woman. in argentina. and these letters you had and e mails back and forth between the two of you. i read one of them and it talks about you knew you were being considered a possible

vice presidential choice of john mccain. and another point you're quoting the bible in a letter to your mistress. i'm reading this and i'm trying to put that together. you snow. >> well, i would say the word mistress conno tates a financial level of support which there was none. she's from a wealthy family. a fine family down that way. so i won't sign as mistress. i fell in hoff with someone i shouldn't have. but i think what everybody focuses on is that moment. there were 10 years before that, i had known this person. she was nothing more than a friend. and i didn't see it coming. she didn't see it coming but it happened and i think that the bigger question is not in that moment, not of her attributes or what attracted me to her but go back to

lessons learned. i would say this to men out there. if you want to fireproof your marriage there are vital things you can do that i have learned. >> sean: what? >> boy say one, i got priorities off. you know? you know for 20 years almost invested my life into trying to make an impact in the direction this country would go to did he have det deficit and spending. i thought that that was my calling in life. jenny used to joke and say if they figured out what they pay you on a hourly basis, you're working on less than minimum wage. i think as men we define our call big what we do. it's true athlete, business in media, in world of politics. i think reality now after this last chapter of life is that important as that was, that was not my calling in life this, was going to sound weird. and i won't have said it prior to these years but boy say my calling in life is to seek

god's kingdom then, this other stuff will be added to you. is love god with your heart, soul and mind and your neighborhood as yourself. i think if you get that as true north, east, south and west are well defined. if you begin to define your work as important as that might be, then a lot of other things fall out of place. >> sean: i think this is probably a ton of lessons people can lesh. i looked at paipor, idiot. and idiot. you know? sometimes, maybe it's judgmental. and maybe a lot of people can learn tonight. we'll talk about that and your future and what that holds for you. coming up more of my exclusive interview with mark sanford as "hannity" continues. >> is there a cool for guys as we grow up? there is not. you figure ut out as best you can.

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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity". your wife wrote this book. and... for example she knew about this relationship you're having with this woman for a long time. for a couple months. and she was asked in an interview if there were signs and one of the things she said before you were married you

wanted to take out the word faithful. that struck me. you're pretty christian guy. why would you want to take out the word faithful? in the vows? >> there are certain things i'm just not going to go into in this interview. i think it would bring harm to jenny and the boys and that would be one of them. and let's just define it as a mistake. >> let me go back. >> you maybe have doubts in your heart about your ability? and i'm only asking you, i'm not trying to be slaacious. maybe down inside i wondered if you had doubts about your ability way back when that maybe you thought this was a mistake? maybe you didn't think you had ability to be faithful? >> none of which is constructive. >> sean: you don't think it's constructive? >> i'll tell what you is constructive. in other words, my relationship with jenny this,

is, i don't think are, that constructive because they're not tied to someone else's life. i tell what you is tied to someone else's life, two other things dilearn about marriage and getting it right. you know? i mentioned the importance of true north in terms of one truth calling in live. not our vocation z way we often times find that. but boy say secondly, you know the bible talks about really loving one's wife as christ loved the church. i, you know i wish there was a school for guys as we grow up there. is not. you figure out as best you can. i don't think i properly loved jenny. and she deserved to be loved as a woman and this is love as in actions. and you know one of the guys took me aside an old timer from jackson hole wyoming, this is sim pliftic. i'm not try tok a chauvinist.

he said courting a woman's need for security. emotional, security, she gets that, she's happy, playful and encouraging. she didn't get, that he she could be. and a man is significance, if he gets knit work he's going to get it there. if he doesn't he might become a scout master or a little league coach. if you get the dance of marriage right, the woman is giving security she needs and man getting respect. >>. >> greta: wait. if the man does not originate as he should in terms of loving the wife a lot of things can go wrong over 20 years. i think that that is important z lastly another important lesson i learned is the importance of putting marriage up on the mantle piece. that means you treat it special and unique above a lot of other things. i think for instance, this was a mistake. i asked jenny to be a campaign

manager for each campaigns. you talk about campaign manager is your boss and on a thursday home from washington let's go over that list of calls you did or didn't make. no. i just want to go to bed. it can be very difficult. soy think that those are the things i think are very, very important. >> sean: you're saying and i think people can learn from you. i think because there are a lot of people getting your situation. they never talk again. in retrospect i went back and looked at your press conference. and i looked at comments you have made and one particular interview you actually said you know, that you know, on weighing your political career, etc., that you would be able to die knowing you met your soul mate and it was one of the things you said i knew the cost. and you're talking about putting your marriage on this mantle. did you think that day your wife is thinking when you're

saying there is another woman is my soul mate not this woman i spent 20 years with? >> a host of mistakes none of which i'm going to particularly walk through with you. the relevant thing are the three things in terms of lessons learned. there has been a real connection between myself and belin it's been nothing temporary or short term z until you take life as it comes. >> sean: let me ask this question. one of the things your wife i thought was gracious. she blifed you can get back on track and believed you were sincere, you got off track, you can get back on track but not in your marriage. she describes she found the letter and discovered this was going on. and she describes in detail in a book the day that you announced this to the world. you came back from the trip and supposed to be off hiking

on a trail you and went to convenient swaila. you had been separated at this point. she said, she said to you you cannot go after you had requested numerous times to go back, you know to see this woman. and so i guess the question is, you know, if you're obsessing over this woman, and you want to go back and see her again and again, and and you've got young kids at home and a wife you think now you should have put on a mantle and served better, my question is why aren't you thinking that at the time? why aren't you making a mental image of her? your kids? as you're flying to meet this woman? in another country? >> again, a long range of different emotions and different thoughts. all of which falls to me in personal category. and i hope you respect that. important part is what i go back to, which sr there lessons learned based on my

mistakes? and is there one, you've got to get, i believe there is a contention i was guilty of that. i'm still not there. i'm on the journey. but what god wants is 100% commitment. i would say secondly you've got to make it, you put not your hunting trail or work and next morning event but what your wife would rather do head of what you would rather you get right. thirdly you've got to protect that marriage. >> sean: we'll come back. we have more with my exclusive interview coming up right after the break as "hannity" continues. >> so i'm asking what you the hell are you thinking flying off to meet your girlfriend after promised your wife you're not going to go? what are you thinking at that moment? that is a lesson people i think can learn from.

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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity". we continue with mark sanford is with us. you just said something i think is profound. marital advice for anyone ch. is you've got to put your

family first. you can't be identified with your work that that is who you are. that is one of the main lessons learned here. i'm listening to you. and i read your wife's book. and like the date you came back, you said everything is good for her. she said and you said well, how did i do? you're explaining you just went off after you promised her, would you not go see this woman. and you know you're saying these things about marriage, but... the recent picture you're still seeing this other woman you call your soul mate fchl you really believe those things the question i have is why are you trying to go back to this woman and be with her? and trying to do those things to her? and in other words make up with her, makeup for lost time, be with your kids and not

looking elsewhere? that seems to be a contradiction. >> you said it earlier. which is, that you had a road ahead but not with marriage. and i would say several different ingredients here. boy say and i don't want to go into feelings and all of those different things but there has been a remarkable connection for a long time. >> sean: so that is where you are now? >> uh-huh. >> sean: i don't hear sadness in your voice. i mean... with all of this, and it's unfortunately for you, i guess this happens to a lot of people. yours played out in the public eye. it seems like you're just so excited about the new chapter in your life, you seem reflective on one side and seem more engaged with the other side of your new life that it seems like your words

aren't corresponding. you said these things about the soul mate and all of these things, i read that and i was like, woah, i was thinking about your wife who i don't know and i was thinking that is a -- she described it as a punch in the stomach. do you think about how deeply you hurt her? >> i regret that. >> sean: did you talk to her about it?. >> again, you're going into a personal experience. i'm not going into personal conversations between me, and jenny and anyone else. you keep focusing on the affair. but i keep going back to the lessons learned that has everything to do with getting right the 20 years. there is always something wrong with a marriage, something is broken if you get to the point one will look outside of the marriage on any front. and so i would say the lessons to be learned are not going to be captured in the

personalities of jenny or balin or anyone else, they're going to be things i described incorrectly the 20 year. >> sean: but with your stated christian belief, i did notice you were quoting the bible which i found contradicting. i'm just seeing a conflict here. >> there have been a slew of conflicts that have been real. i don't know i'll completely understand them. therefore, you certainly won't in an hour. >> sean: if you've reflected in two years isn't real love not a feeling? >> it's an action, as i said. is there a second point in terms you've got to focus on? all i can do is what went wrong? what do you learn from that in getting it right going forward? you can spend time looking back but can't redo yesterday. what you can do is take what you've done right or wrong in

life, learn from it and try to get it right going forward. >> sean: one of the things that amazed me is that you separated from your wife, she knows this is going on. you don't tell your staff where you're going and fly off to meet your girlfriend. and she probably assumed she knew where you are. and you're the governor of a big state that you're admitting is a phone shall vice presidential candidate and maybe one day a presidential candidate. is your brain not telling you that this is a really bad idea? and that i'm probably going to get caught? it's going to ruin my life? >> no. >> sean: did you never think that? >> we make mistakes in life. we can dwell on it. >> sean: did you think as you were making these decisions -- . >> a lot of things you do differently in life going forward. >> sean: do you remember hugh grant was on jay leno? >> right. >> sean: the question was grai. you know he looks at her

and at his girlfriend, and says what the hell are you think something you're flying off to meet your girlfriend after promising your wife you're not going to go? what are you thinking at this point? >> you don't know the conversation i had with my wife. >> sean: i'm going base ond her book. >> but anyway. i simply go back to the thing that's you're going to make mistakes on. what happens is that i think satan is a great tempter of life to a great reminder in life. whatever it is you've done wrong, i haven't done an interview two years. you hide out in a cave. i've been down on our farm working down there. you don't want to stick your head out. you fear it getting chopped off again. the reason i'm back is because i've had -- ways first governor to reject the state... >> sean: you were tea party before tea party. >> i have something to say tied to the economy where it's

headsed and debt and deficit deeb skbrait where it's going next. >> sean: i promise this is the last question. i'm serious. i think, governor, one of the things you said to me you wanted to help people. >> yeah. >> sean: and i promise i talk policy, too. but when you're in these moments and making those decisions and you're leaving your kids and wife behind and going to meet you know your values tell you shouldn't meet, i'm serious about wanting an answer. do you think about them back at home? >> it's a period of remarkable and real conflict. something i'm still dealing with today. boy also say from a practical political standpoint there was a back channel way. i didn't abandon the state that. became an urban legend going forward. i was contacted down there. i flew back early and into the storm of my life. nobody lied to me. but the nature of the things

is that you divide them up so not everybody knows the whole story. there was a way to get a hold of my. i came back. i dealt with obviously, a fairly. >> and... >> sean: more as hannity continue autos is there a candidate you're looking at you think you could support? you think would be able to beat barack obama? >> well, i would say actions you said i'm looking for is a culmination of paul ryan. and this is a fox news alert from new york, despite this week's debt deal on capitol hill, standard and poor's moved late friday to down grade the nation's coveted triple a credit rating to double a plus this, could raise rates of credit cards, mortgages and car loan that's could affect millions of americans. s and p refused a last minute

request to delay the down grade. the department claiming there was a trillion error in the agency's analysis. joining us live on the phone is the senior editor of "american spectator". what is your take on the down grade? the important question we want to know how is this going to affect the american people? >> well, you've heard about wake up calls. this is a wake up thunderbolt. this tells us all of our years of spending beyond our means, refusing to live within them this, is the kind of thing that happens to developing nations normally but now happen together united states of america. and if we don't keep this, i think we're only going to have a long spring of bad news like this in the future. >> reporter: we've talked about this. can this be reversed? our lawmaker koz ga back to

cut more spending and try to turn this around to get our credit rating restored? >> well, just remember this, is one out of three of the big three credit rating agencies. but once you nake kind of a shift this takes a lot. and again... we have just had a budget deal. but... it only cuts 6% of the projected spending over 10 years, 6%. we have to go back to the drawing board and cut something which on the short term, i think would not be politically sustainable. so... though it's only one of the three rating agencies we're going live with this for a while. >> what about other two rating agencies? do you think they're going to follow suit sna. >> they make their own decision buzz usually work in concert. and generally they play follow the leader. so i think we can probably expect to see them... going

into the same direction next few weeks or months. >> we talk about house the down grade could make world markets shakier as well. goits tok a concern. john, thanks for joining us. standard and poors moved late friday to down grade the nation's credit rating to a double a plus, this is the first time in history that that happened. and back to "hannity" for latest headlines log on to fox news.com. you're watching the most power full name in news, fox news chabl. this weekend, with huge savings on great gear. including plus free seminars by top pros. don't miss our biggest hunting sale and show of the year.

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learn more at keller.edu. welcome back to hannity. we continue with mark sanford this, is the first interview you've done in a couple years now. >> well, nationally. >> sean: did you local spots. >> yes. >> sean: so where do you go from here? you know? i look over skprord i'm saying

check, check, check that. means you almost tea partied before the tea party movement really galvanized. you rejected stimulus funds later in your governorship, vetoed bills and you were tax friendly, tax reform and made decisions and you're being head of the republican governors' association. your life now is turned upside down. where do you go from here? >> i don't know that. is a new journey. i've had a plan of what is coming next. it's just a larger process of let going which is what i think god wants to us do. >> this is the side of it, i mean, do you want to influence the debate? >> that is why i'm back on. >> the most comfortable thing for me is -- would not have been going through the conversation we've been having. >> i think, there is anything but, i think that i want to be

clear. to answer them would bring more pain to my boys. more pain to other that's i love. and friends, i'm not going to go there with all due respect. >> sean: how are things with your wife and kids now? how is your relationship? better? heal something. >> it is healing. and there is a notion, time heals all things is remarkable. >> sean: one thing is remarkable for your wife. i don't know her but difind her willingness to say she woulding forrive you fascinating to me. has she forgiven you? have the boys forgiven you? >> yeah. we're in a good place. >> sean: you're watching these events going on. one of the things you did say is you liked being governor, then, you didn't like being governor. i love the -- . >> i love the war of ideas and i think liberty is the

hallmark of the american experiment. it's a fragile and precious thing that can disappear more qikly than people realize thchl larger debate of ideas was something that captivated me. and deficit spending is a proxy for freedom. >> so there is tied to a larger notion of freedom. i think the where something is a tipping point, i'm going to crawl back into a self imposed hole and i have a diminished role as best as i can, i'm going to start to speak up on significance of where we are. and the importance of changing treatment plan if you want to call it that. and there is doctors have been

misdiagnosing in washington. i'm going to speak up on this larger notion. i think we're about out of time f we don't get it right, i think math begins to take over. >> sean: we're on the verge of losing our triple a rating and i don't think there is anything to do to stop it. and is there any candidate you're looking at? that you can support? >> and i would say a combination of paul ryan and chris christie. i think we need someone willing to get under the hood as paul ryan has in real detail no. political platitude but say here is where we can reform. i think he's done a remarkable job on that front. right now i've been

disappointed on the dpemg are not stepping out on real remember ti. and whether saying we can grow in a rate of growth that hadn't happened in 30-40 years as a way of solving economic problems or as, you know certain folks have not weighed in on the debt debate until after this passed. i think that that is not what we need. >> and none of them dealt with every year spending goes up 8%. we're going to increase deficit and and we're going to come back with former south carolina governor as "hannity" continues. thank you for being with us. [ male announcer imagine all of your missed opportunities

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continuing now with mark

sanford is with us. we're having this interview z... i'm discussing personal side of life, it's harder for you. i discussed issues you become animated. you closed off then open here. does it frustrate you because of this that your voice is diminished a little bit? i can see the animation talking about budgets and tea party, deficit, debt, you're animated. asking you about what happened you're like i'm not going there. i don't want to talk about it. you know? so this is a passion. but your voice is mute aid little bit? >> not a little bit oos. >> sean: well norkt completely. >> i messed up. it is my passion. i mean, i don't know why, but i've been fired up about this stuff for 20 years. and voted accordingly in the united states congress. >> sean: that is why i was asking you. you knew you might be

president one day or vice president one day. i kept going back did you think about those things? and... >> you keep coming back to personal ones too. >> sean: how passionate you are about this. so, i think america sat risk of going bankrupt. >> sean: this means global depression. >> and a professor from university of maryland wrote a book and this chronicles last 800 years of financial history them. found around 90% bad things begin to happen to the economy and we're at that point now. >> and this is we'll be right there. if you look at in every debt

crisis in its own currency, in every instance, price levels rose by 99 times. and if you had a dollar of purchasing power you'd have a penny. in 1970s there was a debt crisis there. they went from four to one on the dollar to the bolivar to 6,000 to one this, means if you had $100 million at the end of the kris yirks today, this is 19 70s to present you'd have $20,000 worth of you're talking about horrendous destruction of everything that people have saved and earned over their live times. it happened in hungary and in they talk about people needing a wheel barro to buy a loaf of

bread. you're talking about horrendous levels. >> i'm just curious. did they offer advice on where to invest your money to protect? >> no. that is the scary part. >> if thank you look at numbers we've gone from $5 trillion in debt to $14 tril yichblt and now, concurrently, though, if you look at debt in this country it's gob from $20 billion, $20 trillion to about $56 trillion. and so the prescription offered out of washington first with cash for clunkers and rebates on houses. you name it. throw money out there. then, you know you had bernancke say let's just flood the system with money. neither one was working.

irvin fisher studied the great depression and said, you know if you can have a balanced sheet driven veegs. think think this is inventory driven recession. you throw a little money, this is a balance sheet driven problem with too much debt, and the only way to get out of the problem is swished debt that. will be pain oofl coming up, more of my exclusive interview with mark sanford, straight head. >> i'm listening to you think you're a brilliant man with a great governorship. it's like... you can't explain how you made ridiculous, crazy decisions. >> i fell in love. >> it's not right. not the way to do it. i fell in love.

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>> the tea party is a force for good. but ultimately, it will take a new president, a new congress to get there. am i right? >> it will. but two thoughts we were discussing before the break. e ward gibbons wrote an interesting book in 1776 on the fall of the romans. he looked at the fall of the greeks and he said, in the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. they lost it all -- security, comfort and freedom. they wanted society to give to them, when the freedom they hoped for most was freedom from responsibility, athens ceased to be free. i think you look across the anales of time and you see this pattern of destruction where people in essence get ahead of themselves. paul kinney wrote a book on the scprz fall of great powers and

said economic supremacy was the precursor to military supremacy. so going back to your point, i would argue that the origins of the tea party are our last hope in turning this thing around. i mean, it is vital that people begin to speak up and make their voice heard because if not, the normal course of things is government being granted and government beginning to yield. >> we are at a tipping point in a very favorable way. i think you can trace the rise of the conservative ascendancesy and we could start with taft in ohio and take it through reagan and up into the gingrich revolution through the tea party movement. i think every time america's... dipped its toe in the socialist waters, we have always come back to conservative principlessism but the catch has been, though, that you where weren't at this g

part with regard to the aggregate debt. you look at where we are, the point you were making, tax foundation shows that 44% of all americans don't file. out of 66% who do, 20% are net contributors, 80% are net recipients. in other words, they may file, but if you include social security or medicare, they are a net contributor. it can get to the point where more get than give to society, which is what gibbons was talking about with the fall of athens -- >> we have a minute left. >> if you get to that point, you're over. it's vital that people make their voice heard. >> you know, i think i know you less now eye am liching to youue are such an intelligent man. you are so well read. you did so many good things as governor. i'm having a hard time eye go back to jay leno. it's amazing to me, you have this gift that you offered. i just can't get over this. i am going to give you one last

chance to answer this -- what were you thinking? you're so smart when you are doing these things with your upbringing and values. you are very well-read man. you are very intelligent. have you a great track record. i don't get t. i am having a hard time understanding you. i want to give you one last chance to tell us what you have learned in two years. i am serious. >> i think we covered that on the personal front. i will go back to -- welcome to the human race. which is, there are going to be conflicts in every one of us as human beings. >> how do you explain it away? you explain an economic theory, quoting books from the 1800s and if 1776. i am listening to you, i think you are a brilliant man with a great governorship. and it's like, this guy -- you can't explain how you made ridiculously crazy decisions. >> i fell in love. not right. not the way to do t. i fell in love. >> that's all the time we have