>> all right. >> neil: continuing, the saudis are the first to reacting on tour credit downgrade. let's say they didn't like it. china is taking the same. official news agency country for reckless spend urging we get our act together . republicans go further and suggesting that tim geithner pack his bags and get out. the president is so inclined to stay quiet. the president didn't mention the downgrade in the weekly

address today . gop candidate michelle bachmann. congresswoman, what do you think? >> good morning, neal. it is a historic week as you said all morn unprecedented the doubling ofhe national debt in five years and stock market failure and now the ratings downgrade and despite all that no statement from the president of the united states. potentially most historic news in 80 years and where is the president he left for camp david and hasn't been heard of him since. i led against raising the debt ceilingly. that's what the markets told us and what the american people wanted and the president refuse to lin to them. he has to come up with a new deal to restore the market in the nation and address the nation from the white house.

and he needs to demonstrate to the country that he is unwilling. he needs to stop being awol on the economy. it is time to lead. this is about the country and american people. we have seen this morning, the markets went down five and half percent . rippling affect could be out there. 18 countries have better ratings than the united states? we can't have the administration's response to blame the credit rating agencies employees they have already blamed the weather and earthquakes and strong head winds of the economy. they can't do that anymore. now they have to lead and that is why the president has to come back to the white house from camp david and speak to the american people and peek to the markets and speak to the international community.

>> he keeps speaking to the american people. you think he is saying the wrong thing. and i spoke to you in washington. and the deal was palt row and you mentioned we were adding 7 trillion to the debt and you said something profound at the time. the credit agencies will be angry than a deal like that or no deal at all. you were right. now, i wondering if we stick to the deal and go back and tear it up. >> we have to tear it up and do a new deal. you can't fool the markets. the markets have said this deal stinks as i said all along. the credit rating agencies said look politicians can pat each other on the back and president obama can pat himself on the back. credit rating agencis and markets say this is another

2.1 or 2.4 trillion in debt and we are not realiically cutting the spend getting the house in order and now international markets are paying attention. i called on the president to fire tim geithner and come up with a plan. he needs to peek to the nation, neal, before the markets open. >> congressman, if the replacement was somebody leak jon corzine. >> i would like to see him replaced with someone who gets the economy and understands the importance of cutting government spending. that's what we need. someone who understands we have to get our fiscal house in order. fantasy economics are a proven failure. he passed the wrong vision and he needs to put machine in that truly understands the market and get it is the reality or job creation. >> harris:

-- >> congressman bachmann she said the markets would do what they did if we got a bad deal. we have dick on the phone with us. what happened? >> heyneal, i think the market on friday was telegraphing a downgrade as you saw the volatility. i think you will see weakness x. there will be traditionally the nervous nelies who sell at the bottom and buy at the top. there is a therapy in what happened here . a message to the markets and political leadership that three stooges' approach to running this country's finances is not going to be tolerated and rather than tearing up the agreement

that's been met. i think you have to add to it and adding to it means saying that the net incremental addition of debt is unacceptable. >> i talked to someone who had been saying, now we are saying it is a slow down and manage bad global going on. we fear it could be a melt down . in this environment regardless, for any government to start even more aggressively cutting spending would be bad. what do you say to that? >> i think the approach has to be from the left and right side of the balance sheet. you have to look at how you raise revenues. you create growth and obviously by raising the taxes, but not raising taxes for purposes of redistribution of wealth but to plug the hole.

i think you have to take the approach of how do you collapse the tax code and spread it and get people to invest in this country. there is two and half trillion sitting off shore on the balance sheets of american corporation. give them a tax holiday provided they bring it back and create if you will a larger employment pool in the united states. dollar for dollar. say to the american corporation that has hundreds of billions or trillions sitting off shore. bring it back and we'll give you a holiday provided you had a head count here in the united states. at the same time say to the top bracket. yeah, we'll let you pay more but dedicated it to debt reduction and then look at the pending side. it is off of the charts.

you got to grap it by the -- the choke hold we raised the debt limit and we'll cut spending and we have done nothing. basically we have done 300 billion net cut. that is not going to make it, neal. we have to say across the spectrum. you have a budget of a dollar and you can spend nen cents of that dollar. that three percent would be significant. if you spread it across. now the leadership has to say, i don't want to fire the fire commissioner in the middle of a five-star blaze here on the one hand. on the other hand, if tim geithner chooses to go, you got to bring someone in. >> jon corsign. >> he is a great man. but jon is a politician at this juncture. i think you bring in a guy

like jack welch who looks at both sides aisle. >> what about you? >> neal, america deserves better. jack welch would be better. >> dick grasso always a pleasure. >> i love you. >> first snap shot of the market will come before the stock market begins to trade. it begins with the futures market and trade and things like the chicago mercan tile. my next guy runs that place. terry, what are you bracing for? >> well, you know, neal, i am not sure. this came fast and furious and it will be a interesting session starting tomorrow evening with the asian markets and the futures markets starting here in the united states and we'll get a bits of a sense of how things are going to be on monday.

it is hard to predict. >> we know that fast and dangerous times. it is just the number of people and number -- are you prepared for what could be a record onslaught. i don't know whether to buy or sale or both sides in >> we are, neal. we have done record volume. the cme group, and most global institution and people on the ground who have our systems in over a hundred countries throughout the world. we are very, very prepared for a volume surge that comes our way and here to facilitate the risk. >> normally people are flocking to gold and other precious metals and wheat and corn and barley and soy beans. they have inflationary price.

people could be convinced a slow down is coming, what do you think. >> it is not my. >> i like to put you on the spot and embarrass you. >> that's the reason i like to come on. i think i agree with my friend. we have seen a lot of people trying to chase whether it is up or down and i county see that scen yarrow is changing much. and it is s&p 500 and market failed mis and people are still going to flock to u.s. treasuries. and regardless of trading futures and commodities and stocks and treasuries. that there is just a sense that we are heading back in to

something bad? regardless of how you play that, that is the reality behind that. >> i don't, neal. i think that businesses seem healthy from a balance sheet perspective . they are concerned about where washington may or may not go . regulations is over the market place . get more clarity . so businesses can continue to expand. i am a believer of keeping corporate taxes low. that will help draw the unemployment number down . for america in spending. american consumer started to borrow significantly. it is disturbing. where were the cret rating agencies in 2007 when there

was no business of triple a . all of the sudden downgrade country. it is easier to downgrade a country than a business. i find it disturbing. i think the market place looks fairly good and cooler heads will prevail and we'll come out of this stronger. >> you have a crazy weekend. i appreciate you taking time. load up on the red bull. you will have a long day tomorrow. >> thank you, neal. >> and all right. we were downgraded for spending too much and now democrats are calling for more spending? and billionaire oil tycoon. bigger beating than stocks and could that be the silver lining for us?

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>> all right. they moved yesterday and we are going to talk to the guy who made the move today.

we have under a half an hour. a rating unit of s&p 500, the firm that downgraded the debt . coming to us and talking to us. what was behind the downgrade and what it means going forward and concerns about any that it is standing out alone . other credit rating agencies are not acting in concert. you think the s&p 500 downgrade is giving anyone a change of heart in dc. the way of our fiscal spiral is more. more spending you argue we didn't do enough? >> the president worked with john boehner . i want to compliment them for

coming wup a four trillion dollar deal that included revenue. that's what with the s&p 500 needed four trillion and not two. we didn't get the revenue and cuts. but the s&p 500 told us it was a wake up call to congress to work together and comp programs and make it a real cut that hips with long-term security. i think it reenforces the president's action and peeker boehner and highlighted the tea party and hurt speaker boehner. >> wait, wait, wait. >> what about the transigents on the left. there was cutting more spending on the left. tea party held it hostage for not wanting more spending but liberal didn't want more spending. you can't have it both ways, sir some >> you talk about the left liberals. i don't know what you are

talking about exactly. we wanted a shared sacrifice and revenue as well >> wait a minute, congressman, i know you want the risk of corporation. but neither of you talked about the 51 percent of the americans not paying income taxes at all. >> most of those don't have money to pay. >> that's fine. but it cannot be 51 percent of america. >> that is not the issue. >> yes, it is. but congressman it is the issue. you are loading a red herring when you say in the issue of fairness that corporations have to pay more . leaving aside that anyone should pay more for the questionable performance. why do you leave out the 51 percent of the americans who don't pay taxes at all. >> i don't know that your februarys are accurate. most of them are low income

people. >> it is from the i.r.s. books and quoted by the congressional budget office itself pay no income taxes. i agree with you, some of them might not be in the position to pay taxes at all. >> but given your statement and taking it as a given we need tax reform. but tax reform should include revenues. >> address revenues. before you demand one group pay more. get everyone to get skin in the game. >> people who have the money are the ones that benefited from this economy. >> you keep hitting on the same group and tearing up the group. >> they have the money. >> that's what s&p is saying. you are hitting up with the same group and leave half of the people out television entirely. >> are you saying willie suton should go to the pawn shops.

that's why willie suton went to the bank. >> presumably you are. >> i am neal and neal with standard and poors. it needds to be balance revenue. >> it is not balanced when you call a group out. congressman, i wish we had more time. >> there was no revenue in this at all. >> senator. we'll be back after i beg you to stop. we'll have more including the guy behind the downgrade. there is a way to profit off of it big-time.

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>> big hit for the dow and potentially for oil. boone pickens has seen a lot but not what happened after a

credit downgrade. joining me in the flesh. boone, what do you think happening now? >> on what oil or the market. >> oil first. >> you are down $11 a week and down 20 centos natural gas. but that is not the fiscal market and the oil will come back. supply is tight and demand is good around the world. you will be back up here. it won't be a snap back but you will be back to $95 by the end of the year and you will get into next year, and i am now talking about brent north sea. >> there is a huge difference of price. >> right. >> what about the fear of the global slow down that impact the price of oil obviously in that event and that that could sort of boomerang in the

forecast. what do you think? >> it is a low down because they downgraded our debt? >> long before the downgrade yesterday. you saw what is going on in the market. it is economic numbers and disarray we are getting. something is coming and not a slow down, maybe just a dip. but something. what do you make of that? >> you had a pretty good dip. i feel like demand is good and china growing eight or nine percent and there is good demand arod the world. but don't forget, when you are producing 90 million barrels oil in the day, it declined annually six or seb seven percent. 90 million barretts a day. you have to add back six or seven millions barrels of oil that. is not easy to do . people ignore the declines of

production. production is mature and saudies at 97, they are doing all they can do. that's it for them. >> boone, you are telling all of those looking forward to tumbling gasoline prices at the pump and that is a bright spot that they may be getting ahead of themselves? >> yeah, you are going to move back up to four dollars a gallon and may take you three or four month to get there. but first quarter of 12, is maybe judgment day. you could spike in that period. first quarter or second quarter. it will happen next year. >> boone, thank you for stopping by. >> you can't don't care about me on this reduction in our credit rating? >> i do. what do you think? >> let me tell you, it is the

worst performance i have seen for congress to go through there and give you a trillion write down. s&p told you what was going to happen. don't ever crowd a professional that has protect credibility and s&p had to protect their credibility. it was a downgrade and a sync, h. get an energy plan for america. >> okay, thank you, boon, boone pickens. as boone pointed out. we'll talk to john chambers hidded had of the s&p committee that was a wrenching call to downgrade the credit rating. the message from s&p not just the size of the debt plan but the speed of the cuts. lizzie, what was the issue? >> it was long-time fiscal

outlook for the u.s.. s&p said we are not considering over the 10 year time frame. s&p could move to downgrade to double a status in two years time. behind the scenes, there was an behind of the action. s&p went to the full committee and got the officials in europe to concur hat it needed to move to double a plus . so what you are seeing s&p was committed to a downgrade regardless of what the error was. why? the fiscal picture and dc and infighting that they are calling detrimental to the fiscal out look is not good and interest rates could spike and the economy could weaken further. one final point. treasury officials and federal reserve officials and primary dealers who met on august 3rd essentially said they did not

think a downgrade wasinent -- was imminent. >> we are accusing the accuser i guess. the s&p how pressing it was or not regarding the other crisis. is this to be expected or should we dismiss s&p? >> s&p is doing a big favor. this is getting oust hand and this is what i look for. somebody to be a catalyst for action. what we saw in the last week was a sham. to increase the deficit two trillion . biggest voice spoke up in the last week that was the market. if they kept this trajectory you would see the market much much lower. i don't want to see all hell break loose. it is the best thing that could happen. short-term the markets will take a hit. we have to do something about

the long-term fiscal health. >> quickly, gary if we do not? >> market is going to be cut in half. we are going to get up to 20 trillion deficit and never pay that back. >> lizzie you agree. >> i don't think cut in half. treasury bond market is a rate of three percent . quickly canada went through it in '94 and fixed it and got triple a back by 19nen. >> it took three years. >> much mauler. and why it moved and controverses approximate since it moved and former economic advisor who said unemployment is closer to 20 percent and looking good! you lost some weight. you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories.

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>> all right. the audis are down in the downgrade. only market open today. asia next .

in tokyo, they are on the phone with us now. what is the mood there, chester. what are traders doing there? >> i mean, there's obviously a great deal of unease and everyone is kind of waiting with bated brathe for the opening on tokyo. the news was a shock. late friday u.s. and early saturday japan time and so it is filtering through . i think there is obviously a great deal of concern. because japan has a lot invested in the u.s. treasuries and any downgrade may affect japan's decision to purchase more u.s. debt and more so the china. >> japan survived a downgrade in debt and lived to see another day. markets and all sort of limp along. but are they passive about this or will they think twice

about whether they would be a big buyer of u.s. debt. is that shopped around in >> i mean, officially japanese and government authorities are remaining committed to massive holdings was dollars . securities and will continue to buy. it is ironic, the japanese government intervened in the currency market to try to sell yen and get it cheaper. it is way over valued and so the idea they would be selling dollars would contradict their own policy. clearly, we have a case here where countries around the world that need to invest the surpluses, probably china more than others are going to take a thought. over the weekend, we have had commentary out of the beijing, they are looking to diversify the way they invest their money, away from the dollar and whatever. euro and gold and other

currencies away from the dollar. >> thank you, chester. it is crucial because of in terms was what happened in the last six months. japan is a bigger buyer of our debt. they go back and forth. japan and china are close to being the biggest buyers. we have an economy in this country that is not looking too great. a former advisor and candidate barack obama and what he makes of the stewardship of the job mess as president obama. >> interested in listening to the reporter from japan. i don't read much into what happened on the downgrade. the message on the downgrade we haven't fixed this economy in the eyes of a lot of pundits . they are s&p last night and market on thursday. there is only two and half

economies that matter. germany overnight is the banker for all of europe. overnight . they have had an agenda and a tough pull for those guys. we sit here, in this deep malaise and then china which is booming . i think what the markets in s&p and others are telling us, that the acts, these votes was monday and tuesday and the deficit were charade and frauds and by not having any revenue increases, we committed ourselves to a stagnant policy going forward. >> you would like tax. >> i argued for 50-50. i am more aggressive. >> you are just a hopeless liberal. >> i got to admit. >> you are very, very savvy businessman. >> how would you rate the president on the issues that

are near and dear to you . the job situation is worsening. >> to finish the point. we turned the spick on the off by no new revenues. >> job initiatives were stupid. >> they were less than stupid. some of the infrastructure. >> what bang for the bang did we. >> we don't have one. my problem with the president on tuesday from the rose garden he reminded us again that he's now pivoting toward jobs. don't say that over and over again and do nothing. jobs report was a great distress to me. on the surface looked okay, but you got to remember what happened yesterday, we had a poor estimate and we came in with results that were slightly less poor. seasonally adjusting, a lot of teachers were cut in the month

of july. >> it was a bad reportment >> it was horrible report . yet i fine no where with all to fix. >> coming up, not a stellar governor of new jersey. jon corsign. what do you think of that? >> it is a consequence of the speculation of the secretary geithner. i think he needs to move on i don't think he's going to. i think he is too close of a friend of the president and finds counsel with the president . what ever jon and others have to be a treasury secretary they need to plan otherwise. >> i will take it. >> and we have a lot more today. the guy behind the most talked about downgrade in decades is fox and only fox. after

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>> all right forget the whole debt grade situation. dennis said we have a serious problem in this country and if he had his druthers he would be spending on more to get those jobs. we'll have a congressman to join us. what would you do right now? >> we should be investing in america. if the feds can give money to the banks, the united states can create money and invest it in creating jobs. >> haven't we tried that, congressman. only a fraction of that went to creating infrastructure jobs. we need to invest in america and it would be good for business. we have three trillion in infrastructure needs. we need a new wpa.

>> i don't understand that, congressman. i know you are consistent. but i think you are wrong. we have tolls and fees and state surtaxes that were meant for highway construction and bridge construction and supposedly in a lock box for that purpose . we have had better than a dozen earmarks, pardon me for using that word. for construction . now we say another infrastructure program. congressman, we mede to stop people from coming up with initiatives. >> we need top 10 corporations to pay their taxesment wouldn't that be nice . stop off shore jobs and trade agreement to send millions was jobs. >> can you blame them, congressman. >> absolutely. i am for america, who are they for? >> they see little impous

seeing the shenagins . you are pushed if you want to expand to south carolina, a nonunion state. what is in their about to repatriot that money if they are penalize. >> repatriot. means, america first and respect the country that gave you your birth. we are seeing corporations taking our jobs out. where is there loyalty? we ought to make sure they pay their taxes. >> why are they responsibility for scaring us out of this country. they are chasing jobs over seas because of regulation says and taxes not across the board, but certainly enough they little reason to stay here. they want to bring that money home but spanked if they do. >> let's go into facts and talk about shared

responsibility. exxon mobile. 19 bill 81 in profits in 2009 paid no federal income taxs and received rebate. bank of america. tax refund from the i.r.s. . 4.4. exion did pay taxes. >> yeah, the workers . what about the corporation, neal. >> dennis, come on you know that businesses would be happy and in their selfish interest if they had an environment that was hospitable in this country. it isn't and you know it. >> pay taxes. and you talked about an atmosphere that was theatrical. you and i agreed. what makes any businessman or woman invest? >> we had a phony solution to a fake crisis. we have a problem with demand right now. we have to get america back to work. the idea of a deficit. 74 times in the 1962.

anywhere be running around and saying the sky is falling. it is falling because of all of this contouring. we have to get america back to work and avoid a double dip recession and we are headed to that unless we focus on jobs. >> dennis, kucinich, good to see you. >> and the white house, and >> and the white house, and standard and poors, we

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after seven decades you are going down and your triple a rating will be a thing of the

past. our white house guide with us now . the white house not happy with what s&p did. what can we look forward to or not in the next couple of dayings. >> we don't look forward for the president to come on camera. earlier michelle bachmann wanted the president to come back from camp david. the white house said no on camera statements. maybe he will put a writen statement and they were pushing back hard against s&p. they thought there was a mass error and s&p clearly decided to move forward because of a number of factors, not only the debt but the fact that you look inside of the report, they cited concerns washington not able to govern on big issues. not only at the white house, but congress and democrat and republican leaders up there . i think something else to look

for in the days ahead, a republican budget expert saying that there are other countries hit with a downgrade like canada, and australia and denmark, who ended up turning things around and had the downgrade changed you know months or years down the road. it will be a long road for the united states to turn it around and all eyes will turn to the super committee to see if they have a deadline or thanksgiving to come up with a plan and deadline of christmas to have an up or down vote on capitol hill. are they stepping up to the plate. both pears coming together. >> i wonder if the white house, we'll get the details tried to stop the s&p? >> they did. we are told led by the treasury department but the treasury wanted, was on the phone pushing back and saying

there were mass errors and s&p moved forward anyway. >> you are a huge help to all net woshes. ed henry . the man of the hour, don chambers who is head of the s&p rating committee. john, good to have you. you heard the attacks from the white house that your math was off and missed two trillion worth of debt savings. why did you do what you did? >> we lowered the rating on the united states government from double a plus from triple a. movated by the political grid lock in washington, which makes us think that it is difficult for elected officials to put the fiscal profile of the u.s. government on a long-term sustainable path and part of the fiscal path itself.

debt to gdp, the state and local and federal government and that of liquid assets 75 percent of the gdp . that will trend up over the next decade . unless we get additional fiscal measures than what we have on the table right now. >> so two trillion in rough cuts were not enough. four trillion would have been? >> if you get to four trillion figure which was mentioned by the president in the april 13th peach and paul ryan and the alternative budget, that if you have decent growth behind it would have done the trick. and your counter part at moodies were not inclined to make the move you did saying it was no need to downgrade. you differed why.

>> we all have our own criteria and ours is published for the world to see. takes five pillars. one fiscal and one political and one is monetary and one external and one economy . the two we think that have changed is the political settings, we don't think are as strong as some of the strongest sovereigns that we rate and the recent evidence was the debate over the u.s. debt ceiling and the u.s. coming within a day of having cash problems and the other is fiscal profile. debt is high and fiscal deficits are going to be high for sometime to come. >> dupersonally talk to someone to the white house. >> we talked to people in the administration from all 126 governments that we rate. >> what did they say? >> we usually don't comment directly on the conversations that we have with issuers. >> and they were upset at you

as you know and they said and others have piled on and said you were the not you personally but the agency that missed the melt down and awarded triple a rating to junk loan dealers and you are hardly in a position to judge a country. >> standard and poor's, if you count, the predecessor companies has been rating bonds since the 1920s. we have a long track record of over 100 years. sovereign ratings group in 1975 when the sovereign bond market in the u.s. took off. we have had no defaults in the single a or double a or triple a category. >> you knew the enormity of what you are doing. this was the united states and this is your counselry more to the point . i know you try not to separate. but did you know, personally

what you risk doing? >> we have a commit he that is an international committee and primary analyst is canadian and we take one set of the criteria and apply to all 126 countries . obviously the united states by far the largest economy in the world and it is an important decision. >> that didn't dissuade you. pardon me, but did anyone forcefully disagree to the point that you might regret or the firm reget doing so. >> the administration conducted itself with the ut most professionalism. >> did anyone in congress say the same? >> not, the only push back i have gotten in the regard is irate e-mails that i have gotten from individuals that i don't know.

>> a outlook and could go down more. >> six-24 time frame and the administration is looking for additional on top of the 2.1 and 2.4 agreement . budget. >> we could go down moor. >> it could go down more. >> a year from now, do you think we will? >> the time frame is 6 months to 24 months and the devination is one-three probability. >> what is the chance we regain triple a? >> there is five governments that regained triple a. your colleague mentioned a few of them. they regained over the nine-18 years. >> don chambers head of the sovereign committee over the s&p that made a momentous decision. thank you very much. at