>> steve: go show today. our thanks to eric bolling from fox business for joining us. >> gretchen: log on for our after the show show and we'll see you all tomorrow. hope for a good day out there. bill: all right, here we go, and buckle up! what happens to your retirement, now four -- your 401(k), wall street opening for the first time in 30 minutes since the u.s. was given its first downgrade in history, that could mean a frantic selloff when the opening bell goes at 9:30. good morning, everybody, hope you had a fantastic weekend, i'm bill hemmer, welcome back to "america's newsroom". >> great to see you bill. bill: great to see you. as we await -- sweltso seat belts on. alisyn: i'm alisyn camarota for in martha maccallum, stocks making a -- taking a beating in europe and asia as one of the guys who made the call for the downgrade tells fox what the united states needs to do to get its gold plated rating back

. >> east coast i'm, where are we now, stu? >> got three headlines about your money, number one, the market opens in 30 minutes, it will open sharply lower. at this moment we're looking at about a 250-point loss for the dow jones industrial average, number two, the price of gold is going through the roof, it's broken above $1700 an ounce, right now gold is up about 50 bucks.

number three, in europe there, is the mother of all bailouts underway, they're now rescuing the italians and the spaniards, huge bailouts in progress, big movement on the markets. >> let me get to europe. there have been plenty of bailouts as you know. another downgrade possible, what does that mean? >> jut downgrade possible if america does not get its debt in order. it's about the size of our debt relative to the size of the economy. this puts great pressure on this supercongressional committee which is going to have to address entitlement spending in a couple of months' time, puts pressure on them to get that spending down, or else another downgrade. and of course, it highlights the very weak state of our economy, because of the economy -- if the economy weakens the decifit gets bigger, that makes it more likely jut downgrade. bill: paul ryan on sunday with chris wallace was

saying don't get your hopes up for that supercommittee. we've had plenty of bailouts, europe, a huge one, for, what, italy? , and what else. >> italy and spain. you thought the t.a.r.p. was big when wall street was rescued. that's a couple of banks. this is a couple of large countries, which are being rescued. i'm calling it a bailout. basically, the european central bank is going to provide an awful lot of money, it has to go into the trillions, to italy and spain, because they can't get the money from any place else. they face default if they don't get the cash. bill: how do you bail out a country? we'll find out whether or not you can. best it your colleagues doing all of this, all right? a lot to cover. alisyn: this morning we're keeping a close eye on the other credit rating agencies, moody's rating service is warning it may join s&p in downgrading the u.s., fitch saying it's financing its review of the u.s. and should be done by

the end of the month, that agency said the debt deal was an important first step but not the end of the process towards putting in place a credible plan to reduce the budget decifit to a level that would secure the united states' aaa status over the medium term. bill: what about these credit ratings, what do they mean and how does s&p define it? the highest rating is aaa, that means the borrower has an extremely strong capacity to meet their financial commitments,ing is the s&p says we no longer have. one notch down, aa, suggesting a very strong capacity to pay back money, we can do that by just printing money. ex, a, these borrowers are considered strong but they are more vulnerable to changing economic conditions. then comes bbb, considered the lowest grade suitable for investors and for the record the lowest rating is a d and that stands for default. alisyn: meanwhile major pushback from the white house in reaction to the credit downgrade, the administration strongly disagrees with this

decision. treasury secretary tim geithner, who just announced that he will not be leaving his position, speaking out about the s&p: >> the judgment by s&p to change -- added nothing to what people know about this country. again, there's no risk the u.s. would never meet its obligations. we've got challenges ahead of us but we'll get through this. alisyn: kelly wright is at the white house, with more reaction. they're angry, kelly. >> they are angry. we have not heard from the president personally, we have not heard him address the nation or even give a comment on this. we have heard from secretary of the treasury timothy geithner and some of the -- president's other men, the president returned from camp david, where he spent the weekend following the news from s&p. of the downgrade, but one thing we know, the fact that the president is angry about it, he had tense phone calls prior to taking that trip to camp david and now that he's returned hopefully we'll hear from the in the near future.

we do know jay carney will be speaking at 1:30. i can tell you this, we heard from the s&p managing director right on our air on fox news earlier today, john chambers, explaining why s&p did this: >> there were two things that were represented. one was the politics, and although the political settings in the united states are still strong, they are not as strong as we had thought previously compared to other highly rated governments. >> the s&p has shown really terrible judgment and they have shown themselves poorly and show a stunning lack of knowledge about u.s. fiscal budget math and came to the wrong conclusion. >> the bottom line, the downgrade according to political analysts put the president's political question in peril, i'm speaking of his reelection bid. now, we already know that republican presidential candidates are already hutting -- putting this on his shoulders, puting this downgrade at his feet, saying he's at fault but the president's people, as well as the democrats, are saying

not so fast, it's not the president at all but it's the republicans being recalcitrant and having a strident right that would not bow to the president's grand bargain. let's listen to what they were saying about the tea party, david axelrod taking direct aim at the tea party: >> the fact of the matter is that this is essentially a tea party downgrade, the tea party brought us to the brink of a brought. >> here's the other thing, republicans are quick to defend the tea party, saying they did not create the debt problem or out of control stepping. some republicans in fact say the president needs to come up with a plan. they've been saying that all along. a plan that that can bring the country oust its downgrade now and some are calling for treasury secretary geithner to be fired. i think having had timothy

geithner testify before us in small business committee and having the opportunity to query him, when you open up thatry french rater door the lights don't come up. -- on. i think he should move on and we should have someone else. >> top comments from congressman allen west, who of course is a member of the republican party. but also, got into office because of the tea party momentum in this country. i can tell you that timothy geithny, treasury secretary, says he will stay on, he told that to the president, that he will stay on to fight against this debt situation, as well as this downgrade. back to you. alisyn: kelly wright live from the white house. we'll have our panels on to debate whose fault it is. bill: they are warming up in the bullpen right now. just getting word that the dow futures are picking up steam. we figured 200 points off at the open, now 280 to the downgrade. agel rod was not alone, white house officials and democrats pinning the blame on the tea party,

republicans argue the writing is on the wall to cut spending. listen here: >> it's a partial wake-up call. i believe this is without question the tea party downgrade. this is the tea party downgrade, because a minority of people in the house of representatives countered even the will of many republicans in the united states senate who were prepared to do a bigger deal, obviously not only did it hurt the federal government in its ability to close the deficits but it hurts people, car loans, home loans, all these things are going to go up, it's because washington -- because washington has not gotten its fiscal house in order and this is vindication of our action. we passed a budget which according to somebody from s&p yesterday would have prevented this downgrade from happening in the first place. bill: watch this debate heat up. and we're going to contribute to that a little bit. bob and andrea are on deck in 20 minutes. stay tuned for that. alisyn: fox news alert for you now, because there are new details on saturday's deadly nato helicopter crash in afghanistan.

u.s. officials are now saying the special forces on board the chopper were rushing to that province to rescue army rangers pinned down in a firefight. we're also learning more about the 22 navy seals who were killed in that crash. you're about to see eight of their faces there on your screen. devastated friends and family members are speaking out about the heroes we have lost: >> there are three navy seals here yesterday, and brought the news to my son. >> we knew what he was getting into, you know? it was something, he was trained for it, it was something he wanted. >> he loved philadelphia, mayfair, loved all you guys and all his friends. alisyn: how tragic. fox' steve ken tani is live in washington. steve, what can you tell us about what the situation is at the crash site this morning? >> reporter: first, all

the bodies have been recovered and the long process of retrieving the wreckage continues. the area is sealed off as the military investigators. it's believed that chopper was shut down as it came in for a landing delivering the navy seals to reinforce a group of u.s. army rangers who had come under fire in that province, 30 americans killed, 22 of the u.s. troops were navy seal, almost all from the famous seal team six, which carried out the successful raid on usama bin laden's compound, though none of those in the actual raid were killed in saturday's crash. alisyn. alisyn: steve, of course as we've learned, the seal team six guys are so brave, yet they operate really in an onlyiminity. this morning what more do we know about these victims? >> >> reporter: i've covered some of the activities of the navy seals, they're some of the most dedicated 2r5eu7bd and professional fighters we have. very sad day for all americans but certainly for the families of these fallen heroes. we'll give you a few examples of the victims included john brown of

salome springs, arkansas, his mother called him a gentle giant who just loved anything athletic, she says if she wanted to have a serious conversation with her son she would have to shoot baskets with him. a long time friend had this to say. >> physically fit, mentally sharp, great sense of humor, and he was the perfect -- when i think of the perfect soldier, that was john brown. >> reporter: there was michael strange of philadelphia who loved snowboarding, surfing, scuba diving, and running and his father says he loved his country and loved protecting his country. so just a few examples, very tragic loss for this country and for the military. alisyn: all of them such heroes and role models for us. bill: when that news trickled across the country saturday morning, how devastating that was. alisyn: i got that alert on my blackberries, everybody gasped, and we feel like we

know the seal teams so well after the bin laden raid. bill: we're going to get to a bit more on this in a moment, some of the stories we're watches. these missions are a lot more common than you know and our military analyst is going to take us through, step by step, of this operation. stay tuned for that. alisyn: they kicked in windows, set buildings on fire and looted stores, rioters in a brazen faceoff with the police. bill: they keep on going, don't they? >> new outrage over the tsa patdown, a pregnant flyer saying that agents took something from her that she cannot live without. >> a bottle of nail polish, they got hair spray bottles, needles that are syringes, and yet, i can't take my implants?

test: test: test: test:

alisyn: the tsa is apologizing to a diabetic pregnant woman who claims the agents confiscated her insulin, the alleged incident happened at denver international airport. the woman says she does not want to be identified out of fear of retaliation but she says that she had a doctor's note and the medication was properly labeled, but agents took her insulin, anyway. it's like you're a risk, excuse me? it's a risk for -- i can't tell you why but this is at risk for explosives. i got a bottle of nail polish, hair spray bottles, i got needles that are syringes, but yet, i can't take three of my insulin?

>> alisyn: the woman says she managed to get by with a half vial full of insulin at the -- that the agents missed: the tsa issued an an apology but issued the agents it not touch the insulin but only confiscated a melted ice pack. bill: we are learning more. >> i know he is crying as hard as we are. he loved his country and we love him and we're so proud of him. he had to much pride in what he did. and i'm sure he was scared. who isn't. everybody over there is scared. but he never showed it. bill: heart wrenching reaction, and so much of it, too, from family members of these navy seals killed in that tragic helicopter incident in afghanistan. the seals are some of the most elite fighters you will find anywhere. fewer than 2500 that are

active duty, that's about 1 percent of the entire u.s. navy. training takes at least a year and a half from boot camp to joining a seal team. part of that training is specially focused on urban assault like the raid on usama bin laden's compound in pakistan. special ops now taking on an intensified role in afghanistan with a trool drawdown underway. what happened on this mission? major general bob scales, fox news military analyst. general, good morning to you. >> hi bill. bill: we are learning new information today, these navy seals were going into this alley to protect u.s. army rangers. who are you learning about that. >> here's what we know, there was a small ranger unit that was operating against an afghan village in wardac province, they were approaching the village, discovered by a taliban outpost, engaged in small arms exchange, pinned down, they called for what's called the immediate reaction force, a chinook

orbiting nearby that contained the seals. the ch-47 landed nearby and as it was landed, a taliban fighter fired an rpg into a critical point, spot, on the chinook and caused it to crash, killing all aboard. bill: there are, you say, about a dozen of these missions that take place every night? >> yeah. bill what is their target, major? >> that's a great question, bill, and these operations -- i don't want to say they're routine, obviously they're not, these are our best and brightest who undertake these dangerous missions. but special operations command probably does 12 to 13 of these a night aimed at the middle and upper grade taliban leadership in afghanistan, they've been extremely successful, they've captured over 2000, killed over 800 over the past two years, and so these operations are key an essential because what they do bill is literally take out the senior leadership of the taliban who essentially

are responsible for running taliban operations in afghanistan. it's a vital mission if we're to succeed in that country. bill: so they go into this, was it a valley area? you know, it's at nighttime so you get this image that sometimes the taliban has the advantage there. because they hide out in the nooks and crannies. with you the -- but the helicopter was the strike. that can carry a lo lot of men. the chinook isn't a very fast helicopter, is it? >> no, i flew in a chin acfor the first time in 1967 when i was a lieutenant. it's an old airplane, it's been upgraded many tiles, this was an f model ch-47, it's essentially an aerial with us, it can carry up to 40 soldiers. the problem is, it's the only helicopter we have that can operate at these high altitudes in the afghan mountains, therefore, the traditional aircraft that support a chin acpraights like, for instance, a cobra or a black hawk or apache

can't get up to those high altitudes, so it's the chin aces that operate sort of alone at these high altitudes that makes them so vulnerable. bill: and so many of these operations are successful. this time the taliban had one lucky hit and that's all it took. thanks for your time. >> that's the key point, it was a lucky hit. bill: bob scails, thank you. we like our viewers to know, if you want to learn more about how to support the navy seal community, go to foxnews.com, click on the link for the navy seal foundation,.org, get more information there. alisyn: so reports of secret recordings, offering some stunning revelations into jackie kennedy, and who she really thought was behind jfk's assassination. bi-bill also three siblings, accused of going on a violent crime spree, the latest on the man hunt and their mother's plea: >> only mom knows who good people you are inside. please, prove me right. and everybody wrong.

by doing the right thing, now. and turning yourselves in.

alisyn: the hunt is on for a trio of dangerous bank robbers in florida but here's the crazy part, they're sibbor siblings. the suspects, dubbed the doherty family by police, their mother now issuing a desperate plea to her children. phil keating is live in miami with more. phil, these are three armed and dangerous. do we know what they're carrying? >> reporter: they are believed to be carrying several weapons and a whole lot of ammunition and according to police they have shown willing intent to unload those bullets on anyone, including the jeffer

hills, florida police officer, all this started tuesday northeast of tampa, when a cop engaged in a vehicle that was speeding, the vehicle refused to pull over, 5-minute chase, high speeds up to 100 miles an hour and police say two of the three siblings all fired back at the cop, more than 20 rounds, disabling the vehicle by shooting out the tire, then about five hours later after the three crossed the line into georgia, according to police, they then robbed a bank, all wearing masks, wielding guns, including an ak-47, shooting bullets into the ceiling of the bank and making off with some cash. billboards are up from new york all the way to florida and texas and their mother, pleading for these kids to save their own lives: >> you've made some bad mistakes, but so far, no one has been physically harmed. the only safe thing, the only right thing, the only good thing possible,

possible thing to do, is for you to turn yourselves in. i love you. >> all three of the sibling, all in their 20s, all have several felony convictions each from hit and runs to drug possession. in fact, the sister has a profile that says i have a huge, crazy family, i love to farm and shoot guys and wreck cars and causing mayhem with my siblings, and they've not been seen for a couple of days but they are believed to be driving a white subaru with new york plates. >> we should pretty our viewers we're going to have more on this trio in our next hour with an fbi agent involved in the case. bill: one bizarre story. alisyn: very strange. bill: wall street is going to open in 2 1/2 minutes and how low will we go? we're about to find out ali. alisyn: what sparked these massive riots?

alisyn: there you go, markets open on wall street, so how will investors react to the credit downgrade over the weekend? jerry willis, anchor of the willis report on the fox business network and john fund, senior editor for the american spectator, join me now. welcome to you. what's going to happen today? >> we're seeing a selloff at the open, overnight at fbn, we were watching markets in asia, europe, open and trade, and it wasn't pretty. i think you can expect more of the same here as investors so far begin to digest this news the treasury debt has lost its pristine aaa credit rating, being cut back by standard & poor's. it has ramifications and knock-on effects we're going to see play out over weeks and months and some time to come alisyn. >> alisyn: it's down 215 points as we watch it bounce along there. john, remember when the s&p said that this wouldn't happen if we got a debt deal

done? what happened? >> look, a lot of this is political blame game. pin the tail on either the donkey or elephant, the white house saying this is a tea party downgrade, republicans saying obama has increased the debt by 35 percent in the last 2 1/2 years this, is the end result. so the blame game is going to go on. but clearly, the s&p looked at the size of the debt deal last week and said that gives us the rationale for claiming there should be a debt downgrade. if you look at objective criteria, we should have been downgraded years ago if we were a normal country, because our debt has grown so dramatically and our ability to curb it in the future is so weak. but because we're the world superpower, still, and because we're the reserve currencyby basically thought we could get away with this for a long time but s&p has decided for internal reasons and political reasons and their own visibity, they have decided they're going to downgrade our debt and that's what's creating this mess. alisyn: meanwhile the treasury department says this downgrade is based on a

$2 trillion error, that basically the s&p miscalculated something and they admitted as much by first putting it up on their website and having to delete it when they gave their rationale for the downgrade. is this a big mistake? >> that's exactly what the administration said. s&p says they're wrong, they don't have it right, they made a minor change to their calculations but kept that rating aa-plus on and said look, the real problem is that washington can't come to a conclusion. they can't move forward. this is a political problem. you need to solve it. we have to have relief of the debt and as john said, he had it just right, no surprise we're getting downgraded. if you have watched the numbers at all. our entire federal debt, $14 trillion, is the same size as the total output you are our economy, it's just unsustainable. alisyn: if there's no surprise why aren't the other agencies downgrading us? >> that's true but i got to tell you, moody's is saying we may come out before 2013 and downgrade you, so they

are warning we may be in for yet another downgrade. remember all the companies, they make their decisions on the basis of different rationale, they have their own way of calculating these numbers. so they have different decisions here and i think you might see moody's come out and say we're going to downgrade you, too. alisyn: john, you know, over the weekend, the chamber started and you heard that democratic talking points start bouncing around and this is the tea party downgrade, we heard it repeatedly from some democrats and administration people, but how can the tea party downgrade when they didn't run up the debt? >> if you look at that situation, the way the obama administration looks at it regardless of the size of the debt, the debt limit was what the big dispute was about and because the tea party congressmen said we don't care if the debt limit is going to be breached, we need these spending cuts or else we're going to vote for the debt limit increase, supposedly that was the contagion that set off the downgrade. so it really begins on when you start the conversation,

do you start it 2 1/2 years ago when obama took office or two months ago when the base started creeping up. alisyn: gotcha. we will see what happens. gerri, john, thank you very much for coming in and getting your perspective. we want to know what you all think, does the u.s. deserve this downgrade? answer our poll question on foxnews.com/"america's newsroom", weigh n. see what other viewers think about that as well. bill: it's ten, 15 minutes usually for the dow 30 to open fully for trading in any given day. we'll see where we are at 9:45 eastern time, and we'll look for stability, won't we? british police looking for stability, 160 people arrested, wild weekend of rioting and looting. they were breaking into stores, tacking police and burning vehicles, and amy kellogg was in the middle of all of this, she lives there. she's live in london. what's the cause this time, amy? >> reporter: bill, this really came out of nowhere. two nights of this rioting, one resident said his neighborhood actually looked

like the blitz during world war ii, and police were completely overwhelmed by all of this. most of it happening in peripheral neighborhoods of london, mostly diverse populations, but with severe economic challenges, however, some of it did leak to central london shopping areas. last night's unrests are being called copycat riots but many say it was opportunistic looting, widespread large items like ties being taken out of stores, with the looters so brazen some actually stopped to try on goods before they stole them. people said they had broken into a mk mk, cooking up their own food inside. this followed a nieft rage on saturday which saw shots and apartments torched, cops hurt. it all started out with a largely peaceful protest against the killing of a suspected gang member and father of four, a man called mark duggan. the circumstances of his death are murky, it's not

clear why police shot him, if he was armed, et cetera, because there's a police investigation going on surrounding his death, police aren't saying much, and that is sort of fueling the fire of some of the people. but really, there are pundits and politicians saying that this in large part really does have to do with cutbacks to youth programs and the economic problems plaguing the united kingdom, but as people torch their own neighborhoods, they're putting their own people out of jobs and in some cases out of homes, we've had people whose apartments were burned. police are bracing for a third night of this tonight. they've beefed up the force, and they're saying that although a lot of people got away, with the looting, et cetera, bill, because there's so many cc tv cameras, they're likely to be caught at some point, but there's a lot of fear and horror continuing in these neighborhoods. bill: a lot of people to catch, too. amy, thank you for that, amy kellogg live in london. we'll wait as night falls there in a few hours. alisyn: as we watch the dow react, the white house is

sounding off on the s&p downgrade and now the blame game is heating up. what democrats are calling the tea party downgrade. we have a fair and balanced debate straight ahead. bill: a lot can go wrong when you walk the real tight rope here, 300 feet in the air. we're going to show you to what happened to this guy, hanging on. >> ♪ >> ♪

bill: late on friday night the headline across the cup and across the world for that matter, the u.s. had been downgraded by s&p for the first time in its history and we were all waiting on this number as of 9:30 eastern time this morning. how will the stock market react? what would happen to your retirement? your 401(k)? and then we get into the whole debate about where our country is leaded -- headed, we were off 200 points at the open, now down 167.

so coming back a little bit. but the blame game is started in washington. you can predict that a mile away. some democrats calling it a, quote, tea party downgrade. republicans are saying we'd be nowhere unless we had the tea party in the first place. bob beckel worked in jimmy carter's white house, andrea tantaros is adahly news columnist, both cohosts of the 5:00 eastern time, good morning to both of you. >> good morning! bill: you guys have been waiting to get a first crack at this. andrea, what do you think about the back and forth initially? >> i think both parties are culpable. republicans spent a lot of money before obama got there, bush spent about $1 trillion to obama's $4 trillion, though. so democrats have exacerbated this situation completely and they were warned, bill. we've been listening to the s&p and moody's warn about this downgrade. it shouldn't have come as a surprise. the go pment has done its part. it is laughable this is the tea party downgrade. the tea party is the only thing trying to save us from this.

the budget that was proposed and passed in the house by republicans and supported by the tea party, s&p said would have prevented this downgrade. so look, this is the obama downgrade. the democrats drove this through cash for clunkers, the stimulus, t.a.r.p., and omabacare, notably and his budget, the only thing that the democrats have proposed, the senate voted down obama's budget which would have increased decifits to a whopping $10 trillion, over the next ten years. so look, democrats have no plan on this. what is shocking, too, bill, s&p says we might expect another one soon. bill: that's a possibility, they said, down the road. i hear bob breathing on the other line there. >> shocking! bill: what's up, bob? >> first of all, good morning everybody. and andrea, as usual, your math class, i don't know what they caught you -- what they taught new math but it's a different math than i learned, george bush is eight years, $6 trillion of his budget decifit but leaving that aside, the culpability on both sides, who's responsible for this

ultimately are the democrats and republicans, congresses and presidents that ran this decifit up. having said that the most culpable person and people in all of this are the s&p. i mean, this crowd, the idea we've been taking these people seriously is beyond belief. their math is faulty and they admitted it was faulty, they said they were $2 trillion off, and then they announced it, anyway. these are the same people i would remind you that gave aaa ratings to mortgage-backed securities which led our way to the great recession. so i say psmght ox on their house. bill: you aren't giving them credibility. >> they don't have any credibility as far as i'm concerned, they ought to close shop, put up a for sale sign. have a rug shop. >> why is moody's then warning the same thing? >> moody's is warning because they're right, there needs to be a serious deal here and bin laden and boehner had that deal. $4.5 trillion, obama couldn't sell it to the tea party. now, in that regard, the tea party is very culpable here.

don't tell me that the tea party brought intows this thing, brought this -- yeah, they brought it to the forefront and then offered nothing and then after all was said and done voted against it. bill: might have been worse if not for the tea party. andrea's first point -- >> if you don't cut $4 trillion, you face the possibility of a downgrade. bob, i hear you loud and clear. they had a aaa rateing in 2008 on subprime mortgages. and you saw what kind of an anchor that's become for our economy. politically speaking, here is what hurts the white house. there's only one president at a time when you get the first downgrade in the history of the country, andrea. >> this is terrible news. if the election were held today, obama would not be reelected. look, i'm listening to what bob is saying, we've heard debbie wasserman-schultz say we own this economy, obama say the buck stops with me. became -- blaming the s&p wouldn't cut it and the obama-boehner deal wouldn't have cut it, either. the only think would have

cut it would have been the gop budget according to s&p. let met tell you something, the biggest drivers of the debt, the three of us know here debating honestly is entitlements and republicans tried to solve it, paul ryan came out with a plan to do that, cut, cap and balance would have pushed a balanced budget, but democrats do not want to talk with entitlements, and in fact, it's not even that they don't want to talk about them, they want to demonize and demagogue' aves who do, who have the courage to fix the system to it's around. bill: they voted on that, andrea. bob, do you see movement from democrats on medicare, medicaid, and social security? it's my understanding nancy pelosi iseld whoing hearings, i believe it's this week, on how to save all three of these programs. >> yeah, and listen -- look, i accept the fact this is obama's economy, it's on his watch and he's going to take the hit for that. we agree with that. the difference is the election is not today and secondly he's got to run against one of these candidates, none of whom had the courage to say what he

would do and the only person that said anything was mitt romney, after all was said and done with the bottle of cream and the pronouncement thatesting was wrong. you've got to come up with something. you can run against obama but you're not running generic against him. you've got to run somebody and this crowd, so far, there ain't nobody who looks like they could be president of the united states. it's a long way off. bill: back to the question of entitlements, are democrats going to come to the table? >> they came to the table. bill: and come up with an idea to get these three major entitlements under control? >> bill, let me try to repeat this. people forget this history. obama put on the table an increase in the retirement age for medicare, increase in -- in a change in how you do the increase in social security, an increase in social security, these are real savings. >> bob, the reason why it didn't get any traction is because there is -- >> wait a minute.

put those things on the table and boehner agreed to them, yet boehner could not sell a modest tax increase. bill: i hear your point, bob. is he right or democrats less than serious about this? >> i think he's very right. >> he couldn't sell -- president obama, that was all talk, it was a political stunt, he said oh, let's put everything on the table. he knew nancy pelosi and the democrats weren't going to touch entitlements, bob, and you know it. >> it was not a political stunt. it was real specific stuff and guys refused to understand that. >> and the democrats wouldn't have embraced t paul ryan came out with a plan, republicans supported that plan, they passed that plan. why won't the democrats and the senate do the same? >> i was asked to make phone calls by a certain big house to certain liberals and they said they would take it if and only if the republicans were willing to increase some revenue and they wouldn't do it. so you want to put the fault on the falldown between boehner and obama, deal, it was right at the feet of the tea party. >> it was a downgrade, bob, it wouldn't have prevented the downgrade. >> we'll take you from that

downgrade from theoos -- what ought to be downgraded is s&p. i alone dollars -- listened to that guy this morning. i wouldn't buy a bad scooter from that guy. >> you won't have to. >> the buy, beers? sell something, man, nobody is buying it. bill: i'd like to see you on a scooter. i will see you both at 5:00, congratulations on the new program. it's good television at 5:00 and you're going to have plenty to bat around today. andrea, bob, thanks to you. 11 minutes before the hour. alisyn: what about tim geithner, he says he's staying on as treasury secretary but of course, lawmakers are now calling for him to go. we will talk to one of them, coming up. bill: also a high flying feat and we mean high flying and almost turned out the wrong way. new video of a tight rope stumble that had people holding their breath.

bill: these are described as stunning soon to be released recordings revealing that jackie kennedy believed that vice president lyndon johnson was behind the assassination of jfk. the former first lady making the tapes within months of president kennedy's assassination. on them she reportedly accuses johnson and a group of texas businessmen of killing her husband. kennedy, who later name jackie onassis, ordered that the tapes not be released until 50 years after she died. she's been dead 17 years now, but her daughter, caroline, has agreed to release those tapes early. alisyn: that's a bombshell. rough economic times have led to a surge in abandoned boats and now nearly every state is struggling to round up these empty vessels littering their waterways.

jonathan serrie is live in thront. what's the story behind so many abandoned boats? >> reporter: hi alisyn. a typical reasoner -- owner gets in or over their heads, can't make the payment or underestimate the dock fees and routine maintenance and simply walk away from their vessels, the problem is the abandoned boats become a navigation hazard, they leak fuels and chem caical intos the environment. the department of environmental control is removing scores of abandoned boats. take a look at this photo from a year ago showing abandoned vessels along charleston's ashley river, curtis joiners shows us how it looks now. listen: >> what are we looking at over here? >> over my left shoulder is one of our clean up sites, there were seven vessels lodged up in the marsh area against this island, consisting of a metal barge, shrimp boat and several sailboats. the cleanup occurred about a year ago, and it's just -- i think it's one of our really

good success stories in restoring the environment. >> reporter: now, legally the boat owner is responsible for covering the cost of cleanup but often the owners of these abandoned vessels will scratch off the serial numbers, making it very hard to track them down, alisyn. alisyn: if they couldn't afford to pay for their boat, obviously they can't or don't want to afford to pay for the cleanup so who is paying for this, the taxpayers? >> it minds up in the taxpayers' court. cleaning up an abandoned vessel can cost anywhere from 3000 to $20,000, depending upon the size of the boat. and the same economy that's affecting the boat owners is affecting the government that has to remove the boat. so in many cases these government agencies are looking to the private sector for help. in charleston, for example, a local car dealer chipped in to help remove an abandoned shrimp boat. >> alisyn: okay. that's very nice of that private industry to chip in.

thank you very much for bringing that to our attention. bill: from the category of close calls this man in china was trying to cross between two hot air balloons, he was 300 feet in the air when he stumbles, nearly falling off the wire, fortunately he managed to hang on with his arms and legs. after a few moments, regained his composure, pulled himself up on the wire and finished the walk. one of our viewers said he had a safety rope on there. i didn't see it. maybe that's what saved his life! alisyn: can't people just go to an amusement park when they want thrill the like the rest of us? bill but it wouldn't make television! >> alisyn: that's right, it's different. wait until you hear this story, speaking of thrill seekers, there's a man hunt underway for three renegade siblings, two brothers and a sister, they are accused of brazen bank robberies. we're going to talk to the fbi about these siblinging. bill: also, eight people dead after a crazed gunman goes on a shooting rampage,

an 11-year-old among the victims, and we are learning new details about that tragedy. >> somebody knocked on my door and a woman was hiding on my porch, when i opened the door, she ran in the house and told me somebody had shot her husband, point blank, in the head.

bill: here we go, 10:00 in new york, good morning, everybody, fox news alert and shock wave rippling across financial markets around the world, asia, europe, now the u.s., after america's credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. a live look at the big board, not so bad, down 199. it is early. investors running scared, the dow down triple digits when the bell went off, hovering around i guess about a 200-point drop at the moment. that was 12,800 on this date two weeks a. you're down 16, 1700 points in about ten trading days. alisyn: it's a mark of what's been happening that you can say it's not so bad when it's 190 points down! bill: could be worse. long way to go, everybody. i'm bill hemmer. how you doing camarota? >> alisyn: doing well. i'm alisyn camarota for in

martha maccallum. it's like the super bowl of blame games right now on capitol hill, and in financial circles around the globe. bill: so critics of that decision by s&p saying that the downgrade was to some degree payback for some mistakes during the housing crisis of 2008 when they missed substantially, s&p saying they stand by that decision earlier on fox: >> years in rating gomghts, we've been rating corporations, running structured financial deals, we stand by our record. obviously we're disappointed about the mortgage-backed securities, but you know, it's not as if that influences the decisions that we make going forward. bill: stephen hayes for the weekly standard, fox news contributor, if you want to understand what he just said, please help me. bob beckel was just arguing that s&p has no credibility. does beckel have a point? >> i think in terms of substance, i think he does have a point. s&p has serious credibility issues because of what they argued in 2008 and what they

did in 2008 where they missed -- they were giving aaa rates, gold ratings for mortgage-backed securities that were worthless, in effect. so yeah, i think he has a good substantive point that the s&p rating isn't what it used to be before 2008. politically, though, i don't understand why democrats are making that argument. you know, i -- alisyn said this is the super bowl of the blame game. in a against, what democrats are doing is complaining about the rest, really, it might be a smart strategy in the short term but what does that ultimately get you? people don't like when the fans of the nfl team whine about the refs game after game after game. you got to do something about the way you change on the field and there has been no indication from democrats they're willing to do that. bill: take it a step further, what does this mean for the president politically? >> i think it's not good for the president politically because he presigh over the downgrade. no matter what happens, unless we recover our aaa rating the argument is going to be president obama

presided over the first downgrade in u.s. history. that's a pretty powerful argument. i think what the president is going to try to do is deflect some of that blame. i'm not sure that's a good argument at this point for him. i think he's got arguments both in the short term that are tough for him to make and -- to make and in the long term you look at what we're going to be discussing in the 2012 campaign, issues of debt, issues of decifit, things that are not sort of good turf for democrats to be having their best argument. bill: what about the accusations aimed at the tea party? is that a talking point for this week? or does that stick, stephen? >> it's a talking point for this week. but i guarantee you it will be a talking point through the 2012 election. look, i think the obama white house doesn't have much to say on its own behalf right now and i say that not as somebody who's taking a shot at them but objectively, if you look at what happened with the economy under this president, the proms that were made by the president, by his economic advisers, with respect to gdp growth, with respect to the unemployment rate, they haven't performed. the president campaigned on

his stimulus, back in 2007, 2008, he implemented it entirely because he had two houses of congress that were democratic. it has not worked. by any objective measure, it has not worked. so they don't have a very good argument. the only argument they can make and have been making is well, it could have been a lot worse. that's a suf tell -- tough sell. now i think what they're going to do and we saw this yesterday is calling this the tea party downgrade, which is totally preposterous, as if washington went bad when the tea party came in. the tea party folks in many respects are the only people who are actually addressing this in a serious way. bill: stephen, thank you. we're going to see you at 6:00 later today, with bret, if not today, maybe for the next four dairgs and we'll see where we are, 6:00, later today. stephen, thank you. thank you. bill: following the downgrade, america's credibility takes a hit, we know that. where do we fit in with the rest of the world? about a dozen countries having a aaa-plus rating,

including canada, france, germany, great britain. aa-plus, america joins new zealand and belgium. hello brussels! that puts us a notch above spain and slo vena's aa rating, china and japan, a aa-minus. you got that? a limit? >> alisyn: all of this is happening, of course, under the watch of treasury secretary tim geithner. so now critics say it's time for geithner to go. >> timothy geithner has failed the economy and failed this president and the president needs to have him walk the plank, if not for policy reasons he need to -- needs to do it for the political optics. >> frfs from mike huckabee. he's not pulling any punches about the treasury chief and is not the only one. many republicans are fired up and we're going to talk to one of them live, straight ahead. bill: what does this mean, consumers across the country trying to figure out how this downgrade will impact them. some experts say it may not be as bad as you think.

>> i don't think interest rates are going to skyrocket but they'll certainly go up. but if somebody is serious about making a big purchase, i think there's still enough strength & in the consumer -- strength in the consumer psyche it's not going to affect them. if it happened four years ago, consumers felt they had to take care of themselves anyway. bill: what do you think? does the u.s. deserve a downgrade? that's the question of the day, foxnews.com slash "america's newsroom", log on, tell us what you think. at the moment, more than 1200 votes and 96 percent of you say yes, we live beyond our means, and this was deserved. so throughout the next hour, continue to vote, we'll bring you the results. ali. alisyn: republican candidates are speaking out about the downgrade, mitt romney called the situation embarrassing, saying it is a meltdown, tim pawlenty on fox news sunday said this: >> we shouldn't have to play come out, come out, wherever

you are, with the' of the united states. he has an obligation and responsibility to lead and you you can't find him. he should step forward to the mig phone and lead this nation on the most pressing, challenging financial issues of our day and he is not in a. he's hiding on these issues, he's ducking on these issues. he should be leading. he has an obligation and responsibility to do it. alisyn: meanwhile the candidates are set to square off in a crucial debate in iowa, just days before the all-important ames straw poll. carl cameron joins us live from ames. pundits say this is the most important week thus far. who are the candidates to watch? >> it's not just the pundits actually. the candidates themselves say this is probably the most important and potentially con sequential week thus far because that sets the debate for the straw poll and it could be the end of some of the campaigns. it's entirely the likely the field will get winnowed.

perhaps mob has more riding than michelle bachmann, the congresswoman, born in iowa, has had six weeks of big, big buzz, and the question is whether or not she can translate that into the boots on the ground to win the straw poll, anywhere between 50 and 20,000 -- 15 and 20,000 people can cast ballots. it's not so much about the calf iz ma as it is about getting peoples' attention in iowa, and in addition to bachmann, lots riding on this for tim pawlenty. perhaps no candidate has spent more time working aggressively and it's almost cliche so say that tim pawlenty has lots of boots on the ground but not a lot of buzz, the inverse of bachmann, and there's a lot of speculation really that ron paul, texas congressman could pull this off as a winner. he's a monster when it comes to straw polls. but rick santorum, who says by the way the debt downgrade by s&p is the

president's fault because he did not show a real willingness to cut spendings, rick santorum could come in fourth and that could breathe life into his candidacy. alisyn: this will be a fascinating week and we know you'll be covering it for us. fox news will be carrying the presidential debate live from iowa at 9:00 p.m. on thursday, that's august august 11th, the debate cosponsored by fox news, washington examiner and iowa republican party, thursday, 9:30 p.m., make a date with your television. bill: must-see tv, we'll see where they are. fox news alert, an absolute tragedy, people now stunned by a tore ific shooting rampage. eight are dead including an # one-year-old boy. the suspect eventually killed by police, running through the neighborhood, gunning down people one by one, in three different homes. here's a witness out of akron, ohio. >> and a neighbor of mine, seen the guy with a motorcycle, chasing a kid

with a gun, shooting him. bill: what do we learn about the gunman, who he is. alisyn: this is a wide widing crime scene through the homes and streets and investigators are planning on giving a news conference in a few hours to give us an idea of how they're able to piece this all together. now, police in cople yevment township were called just before 11:00 app sunday of reports of a person running down people, chasing them with a gun, and # one did die. police have not identified the shooter but say the gunman shot his girlfriend in one home, then ran next door where he shot her brother and gunned down four others. he then chased four more people through neighboring back yards, shooting one of them, before bursting into a home where two others were trying to hide. >> somebody knocked on my door and a woman was at my porch, hiding on my porch, i went out, opened the door, she ran in the house and told me somebody had shot

her husband point blank in the head, a lot of people shot and she started screaming my 11-year-old son, he went the opposite direction she went and he was looking for her son, but she says oh my god, i'm a widow. >> three young victims, the 11-year-old boy, among the dead, along with two area high school students, bill. bill: what is motivation on this one, laura? >> some people in the neighborhood say there was a fight, investigatorrings continue to interview those who live in the area to find out what they may have noticed or heard before the violence erupted. i just talked to one man who lives in the area across the street from where one of the shootings took place, he described the gunman as generally unfriendly, a rarity on the street and said he often worked on his car outside his house but never waved at anyone. about 200 people showed up for an impromptu candlelight vigil at a local park, some set they would set all memorial fund for the victims. authorities confirmed there's one survivor but the condition, unknown. bill: lauroo laura ingle, what a tragedy, out of akron, ohio.

alisyn: speaking of tragedies, one of the worst tragedies we've seen in afghanistan so far. >> i'm very proud of him. he was such a good boy. and he loved his country. alisyn: today, family who is lost loved ones like deck indicated navy sale aaron vaughn are speaking out about that catastrophic accidents. bill: he is at the helm, does this -- what does this mean for timothy geithner? >> alisyn: one today, a plea from the mother of three siblings now fugitives after a wild crime spree. we're going to talk to a former fbi agent about this. >> only mom knows what good people you are inside. please, prove me right. and everybody wrong by doing

the right thing now and turning yourselves in.

bill: heartbreaking stories free some of the relatives, so many of these relatives of those navy seals killed over the weeghtend in that helicopter crash in afghanistan, including the familiar lev 30-year-old aaron carson vaughn, he was a decorated seal, who asked the military to return him to combat after taking a state side position as an

instructor. he deployed only six weeks before the incident this weekend. his grandmother, describing him as a warrior, with deep faith, who did not fear his job: >> talked to him on his birthday, he said granny, if it -- don't worry about me. i'm not afraid, because i know where i'm going. he was a christian, and he said when i get home in november, i'm coming to your house to hunt. bill: aaron carson vaughn leaves behind a wife and two children and one of the kid is two years old, the other, two months old and these stories will continue to rip your heart. >> ♪ >> ♪ alisyn: a desperate plea this morning from the mother of three dangerous siblings, all on the run, the florida trio being compared to bonnie & clyde and they started their crime spree on tuesday, shooting at a police officer during a high speed chase and robbing a bank in georgia.

their whereabouts this hour, a mystery. steve ennet is a special agent with the fbi involved in this case. thank you very much for joining us. these are two brothers, they're 21 and 26 years old, plus their sister, who's 29. last week, they left a note for their mother that said at some point, we all have to die. had you ever seen a case like this? >> i have not. it's very unfortunate that we're seeing it now. but three siblings, so committed to a cause that we're really not understanding what that cause is, and so heavily armed and so ready to use that firepower against law enforcement. thankfully, we haven't seen that very often. alisyn: these siblings have quite a rap sheet as we understand t. all different crimes, all across florida. do we know what they've been arrested for in the past? >> i'm not going to go into detail with their criminal history, but we've seen several instances where they're not compliant with law enforcement once

confronted, so those are the things that we're certainly focusing in on and, of course, ryan's charges -- recent charges, stemming from child molestation or predator-type charges seems to have possibly instigated this crime spree. so we're aware of that, we're looking at that, but right now, they're being charged with federal armed bank robbery in georgia. al ale want to play for you and our viewers something that their mother said in trying to implore them to turn themselves in. let's listen: >> you've made some bad mistakes, but so far, no one has been physically harmed. the only safe thing, the only right thing, the only good thing possible thing to do is for you to turn yourselves in. i love you. >> wow. from what you know of them

and their history, is there any chance they could turn themselves in? >> i applaud the mother's efforts in trying to get these individuals, her children, to surrender, but i think that it's the consensus of law enforcement that based on their past behavior, this is likely to not end well, and that is the reason that we are doing such an aggressive public affairs campaign to include digital billboard campaign to not only alert law enforcement and the public of their threat. we would just absolutely abhor the idea of law enforcement confronting these individuals without knowing the threat that faces them. alisyn: so we know you've put up billboards all around the southeast to be on the hookout for these three. where should people call, what should they do if they encounter them? >> well, i would say the

local or nearest law enforcement office. on the digital billboards, we have a 1-800-thumb -- 1-800 number posted, but if the individual does not have a number, just call 911, and turn them in. let us know where they're at. alisyn: let's hope this can be concluded without any more violence from them. stephen emmett, thank you very much for coming in with the information. >> you're welcome. bill: absolutely bizarre. here's the fox news alert for you now. checking the billing board, new this moment, the dow has dropped lower, off about 295, when you were talking there, ali. fears of a global slowdown, concerns in europe, concerns at home, a downgrade over the weekend for the united states of america. that is a possession fit for trouble. also -- >> ♪ >> ♪ >> bill: remember this? voters in wisconsin, outraged over the state's budget? over the next week, in that

state alone, at least eight lawmakers face a recall vote that may change the shape of everything. there and across the country.

alisyn: 24 minutes past the hour, here are the headlines this hour. thousands of verizon workers hitting the picket lines, their union saying their contract expires sunday night and there are still no clear resolution in sight. >> brutal images of violence coming out of libya, qaddafi's forces ramping up their crackdown own the weekend, five rebels and

three regime soldiers were killed in that fighting. >> bill: watch this now, from wisconsin, voters tomorrow and over the next week vote on whether or not to recall a total of eight state senators, six republicans on the line. that's tomorrow. governor scott walker's budget which changed the way many public workers contribute to their benefits, that's what's on the line, $30 million has been spent on these campaigns, $30 million. typically, you get like 3- $4 million. a lot of that money from the outside. and scott fitzgerald, wisconsin state senate majority leader, my guest now, good morning to you. how critical is the outcome of tuesday's vote, sir? >> good morning, bill. it's enormous. i think what we did not expect is that there would be as many dollars coming from across the nation, specifically from the unions, targeting six

republican senators tomorrow. bill: you have six tomorrow and a recall vote for democrats, two of them the following tuesday. what will that outcome tell us? can democrats in your state change the budget the way it's set up now? >> no. i mean, the republican assembly remains in place as well as obviously governor walker, but i think, you know, what this has become is more of a referendum on whether or not what happened in wisconsin in february and in march should be the way the state moves forward. we have a balanced budget, we certainly have had great success in eliminating the decifit of which many states throughout the nation are facing now and the unions are trying to send a signal if they can recall this state senate, that this was the wrong direction. bill: what is the message to the rest of the country after the vote is in?

>> what do we need to learn from -- need to learn from wisconsin's example? >> i think what we're hoping for is tomorrow, that these republican senators are successful, and that we sent a message that we're going to stand with the taxpayers, we're not going to stand with the public employee union and as a result of that, moving forward, hopefully we can build a more cooperative effort. but you know, nationwide, as this happens in other states , and this change is made to collective bargaining i think you're going to see wisconsin is the tip of the sphere and the unions are trying to draw the line in the sand. bill: i mentioned, $30 million spent on the campaigns already, $3.75 million is the amount of money that usually would be spent in a normal year. it is phenomenal to see the attention your state is getting. thank you, sir, for your time, we'll await the outcome. alisyn. alisyn: bill, while you have been talking, the dow has fallen even lower, it is now

down more than 300 points. it's down 312 as i speak. we'll tell you about some breaking news that may be sinking the markets even lower today. bill: how low can you low. -- did you go. it is one of the most welcome mat you will find but some locals aren't happy with the care vaan -- caravan through the neighborhood. let's say they're not happy about that sign. ♪ and so the conversation turned ♪ ♪ until the sun went down ♪ ♪ anything, yes i'd do anything ♪ ♪ anything for you

♪

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one. you see stocks responding in-kind down about 340 points now. he is the man in charge of overseeing our economy. timothy geithner, and that economy is not doing so hot. that is an understatement. our national debt has surged 100% the size of our economy. should timothy geithner step aside. first michelle bachman from this weekend. >> you said the president should ask for the resignation the timothy geithner. if he doesn't get the resignation should he fire him. >> of course, timothy geithner needs to go. >> why are you blaming him? >> why am i looking at him? he has been the architect of the so-called economic recovery. the decisions that he has made as treasury secretary, again they are at the direction of the president, they are not ones that have clearly turned the economy in order. bill: michelle bachman.

congressman newt gingrich. how are you doing, sir, should geithner go? >> absolutely, absolutely. he should never be confirmed in the first place. he failed to pay $40,000 of his income tax and yet got confirmed by the senate. it was unbelievable when he announced that he was going to step aside after we raised the debt ceiling. in the midst of this fiasco that he said would happen if we raised the debt ceiling, the president calls him up and says, tim me, you're doing a great job. won't you stay on until the end of 2012. i think he needs to go and he needs to go now. he is the last of the economic team of president obama and they were a dismal failure, and he led the team and i call for his

immediate resignation or dismissal. bill: he was on one of the business networks last night, not necessarily addressing that direct question, but suggesting that this whole debt debate is what has dragged us even lower, just roll this and i'll ask you about it. >> they like many people looked at this terrible debate we had over the past three months, should the u.s. default or not, a very remarkable thing for a country like the united states, and that was damage, and it led people to wonder whether this political system would be up to running this country. congress owns the credit rating of the united states. they have the power of the constitution and they'll have a chance now to earn back the confidence of investors around the world. bill: we also have a long way to go, sir, as you well know. here is what the house is saying, though. the white house is saying, if you get rid of geithner now you're in for a bruising senate confirmation that will send the markets or perhaps the economy into a further tailspin. do you buy that?

>> well, i don't know, i mean, but this is a guy that said, let's kill the messenger, we don't like the message, let's try to discredit standard & poors, they evaluate the sovereign debt of what is it, bill, 60 different countries, and i trust david beers a lot more than i trust david axelrod. having said this. getting rid of geithner is not going to solve the problem. i think you just get rid of incompetent and you try to replace him with somebody better. we've got a lot of work to do. we've got to come together and do a better job than we did. i think we've got to have a balanced budget amendment. quite honestly i like that one cent solution, connie mack, the 1% debt reduction act for 2011 over the next six years you cut the spending 1% per year across the budget. you can hold off on entitlements until appropriate.

at 2017 you get to 18% spending as a percentage of gdp and balance the budget and start really reducing the debt. there are a number of things we can do if we can work together. that's the reason why standard & poors downgraded you. they don't think we can work together. bill: the political situation was not the only thing they cited. there were 9 or ten things on the list. phil gingrey thank up for your time. the georgia republican from atlanta. did we deserve that downgrade? what do you think? we ask that question, yes or no. more than 96% of you say, yes we live beyond our means. thousands of sroebgs so far. you can log on right now. ali. alisyn: syrian government forces opened fire on mourn earns at a funeral as the brutal crackdown intensifies. 300 died in the last week alone

making this the bloodiest time since it started five months ago. eight babies died when the government cut power to the city of hama and their inch cuing cuincubators lost power. this is sickening. >> reporter: the syrian regime will stop at nothing, show no mercy and ignore the rules of war in order to hold onto power. the big question is when will the world become so appalled by the stories and pictures that they will finally act? bashar al-assad has all but declared war on his own citizens, shelling towns, laying siege to other cities that are in revolt. doctors there had to set up seek rel field hospitals because the protestors who are wounded are wa worried if they go to clinics or hospitals they will

be killed. kuwait and saudi arabia have pulled their ambassadors out. the arab league has offered its own condemnation. alisyn: socon tkep so, condemnation can only go so far, is there any hope that diplomacy can actually work here? >> reporter: that's the question. either the syrian regime says we have to stop because we're becoming so isolated or we're so isolated there is nothing left to lose by continuing this. no one has put a military option on the table. remember this the president of syria still has a trump car, that is his friendship with iran. anybody who offers military intervention now risks picking a fight with a rather impressive sandbox bully, that not only being syria but also teheran. alisyn: thanks for the update from there. bill: we are waiting on a pivotal event for the pep

nomination. you will see it live on the fox news channel. what the conned dates need to sacandidates need to say on this pivotal battle in iowa. alisyn: scientists say they have a strategy for predicting earthquakes. would you like to be a civilian seismologist, bill?

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13,000 for the dow. we are watching that now. an hour and 12 minutes into trading today. now we go back to the trail and republican presidential hopeful jon huntsman delivering a musical mess hajj to presiden amusa musical message to president obama. [music playing] bill: name that tune. alisyn: is it hit the road, jack? bill: bingo. he had a town hall meeting in south carolina. the state holds the first presidential primary. alisyn: if it was a town show he'd win right now. there was impressive tickling of the ivorieds. countdown to a crucial event to the republican nomination and you will see it all unfold right here on fox. the eight -- at least we should say eight of the gop hopefuls

are set to square off on the same stage thursday night, live from the great state of iowa. you will see it only here on the fox news channel. let's talk about what we are going to see on thursday, and with a straw poll with larry sabato. he's from the university of virginia. great to see you. >> good morning. alisyn: i'll go out on the limb and say at the debate the first question will be on the economy. what do you think the candidates need to say to really stand apart from the pack? >> well, obviously they all have different lines, alysn. that is a very important dee dee bait. it's two taste before the straw polls in aims. those are the only hard numbers we are going to have for months. you better believe the debate on thursday night matters, and the economy matters. mitt romney was given a gift an is going to cite the downgrading of the u.s. creditworthiness,

comparing that to the fact that when he was governor of massachusetts fitch and s&p upgraded massachusetts creditworthiness. so if anybody has been given a gift for the thursday night debate it's mitt romney. obviously the other candidates will criticize president obama for that credit downgrading, and i would suspect that some candidates, like huntsman and pawlenty will take shots at romney. but keep in mind, romney is not fully participate nothing that straw poll. this is really a battle between subgroups like tim pawlenty versus michelle bachman, like the lower tier candidates that are trying to get into the upper tier. alisyn: as you just said mitt romney, newt gingrich, jon huntsman, none of them are really participating in the straw poll. so who do you think is going to win? >> well, most people on the ground in iowa think that tim

pawlenty and bachman will do well, but they also admit that a candidate like ron paul who has a very dedicated core of supporters could do well. so could somebody like rick santorum, so could a herman cane. it depends whether they can get the supporters out to this particular small poll. just a few thousand people will make all the difference in the world. alisyn: do you think this week spells the end of the line for one or 4 severa several candidates. >> i wouldn't be surprised if we were informally writing off some candidates by next week. the purpose of iowa is to win over the field. they don't just win over the field through caucuses. they win through the debates and aims straw poll. i'll be surprised if we are not doing this a week from now. alisyn: everybody is talking about whether or not there will be another mike huckabee a effect, a surprise finish, not

necessarily a win, but you'll remember that mike huckabee came in second and that surprised everybody and gave his campaign new momentum. is there a possibility for a big surprise this week in iowa? >> oh, absolutely. and the mike huckabee precedent shows we need to pay close attention to the results. the aims straw poll does not predict historically the order of finish in the iowa caucuses, much less who is going to get the republican nomination. at least for the iowa caucuses, generally the frontrunners in the aims straw poll end up being in some order the front roners in the iowa caucuses. we node to pay very close attention to this. alisyn: it will be a very interesting week. larry sabato thank you so much for previewing it for us. fox news will have the republican presidential debate live from aims, iowa. it is could he sponsored by the washington examiner and the iowa republican party. right here on fox on

august 11th. clear your calendars. bill: we'll have all the coverage the following day to let you know what happened and who scored and who did not. coming up then. jon scott is coming up in 12 minutes. how you doing, jon happy monday. jon: happy monday to you. the political plame game underway as reaction to the downgrade. it will affect the 2012 election, but how? bret baier is with us live. a nato helicopter crash that killed 30 americans over the weekend, the worst single day for our country in this long afghan war. will it in any way change the newt of the u.s. mission there? also a nationwide manhunt for a florida family on a dangerous crime spree, three siblings on the run since last week. their mother making a desperate plea for her children to surrender. what are they wanted for? oh, oh, oh, wait until you hear

"happening now" in 12 minutes. bill: we'll see you and jenna then. doing something unimaginable, no stops, and no shark cage, and she is only 61. a swimmer on an inch shreddable journey. >> i'm almost 62 years old. i'm standing here at the prime of my life. i think this is the prime when one reaches this age. you still have a body that is strong, but now you have a better mind. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

bill: new developments a moment ago from the pentagon regarding this awful story over the weekend, the crash of the u.s. chinook helicopter that took 38 coalition members including navy seals. it was on its way to provide

support forearm me rangers at the time who were targeting a taliban leader. what we don't know is why the crash occurred. was it an rpg fired by the taliban? or was the crash on behalf of the helicopter itself? at the moment we cannot confirm either way. they are still not confirming that crash was due to hostile fire. we are working for confirmation from that, and the reaction we are getting from so many americans families across the country are truly heartbreaking too. alisyn: what a loss. back at home here scientists in california are getting some help measuring earthquakes from a network of amateur seismologistus, they are asking residents to place sensors around their home and they hope the data they collect could help predict a major earthquake before it strikes. claudia cowan is live in san francisco to tell us how this works. >> reporter: hi, with the threat of devastating earthquakes looming here in california sigh

inch teus are racing to develop an early warning system much like the one up and running and saving lives in japan. now researchers at san francisco university are testing game changers. sensors hooked up to computers all over the bay area. >> if we can see the earthquake with more sensors up close we can learn more about how the earthquakes rupture. understanding earthquakes better is better for all of us. >> reporter: the sensors are cheap and easy to make. the challenge is getting enough of them out there. >> it has to be aligned to north. >> reporter: which is where stanford's quake catcher network comes in. they installed the technology for carl holsworth. >> we need to set it up on the floor preferably. >> reporter: the sill can valley engineer and seismology enthusiast has agreed to donate space for at least a year.

>> it's a connection to the internet, people have that already, why not do it. >> reporter: so long as his computer is on the sensor will relay any ground shaking back to stanford and bring scientists closer to a reliable alert system. >> this gives everyone the ability to take a little bit of earthquake preparedness in their own hands, to help develop the next generation system that can really help save lives. >> reporter: more than 600 citizen seismologists are volunteer quake catchers, including many property owners who have a stake in the property they are protecting. if you want more information go to foxnews.com. alisyn: let's hope if the big one strikes let's hope we hope they know about it first. bill: all eyes on wall street. the dow down, look away, america, 316. this is the market's first

chance to react to the s&p decision over the weekend, downgrade our credit stripping us of aaa credit. the cost of gasoline is heading down, but a drop in i'll prices not necessarily good news for consumers. really? we'll have a closer look at that. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a living, breathing intelligence that's helping people rethink how they live. in he, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broaand experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. ♪ we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's a network of connections and ideas... open and collaborative... extending far beyond the mobi phone. connecting you to a world of intelligent new devices and technologies.

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alisyn: wait until you hear this story, an american endurance swimmer is attempting something unimaginable for most of us. she will make a 60 hour swim to the florida keys. the 61-year-old has spent years training information this. bill. five boats filled with 45 support crew will sale alongside. bill: that is one tough woman, huh? 50 years ago this weekend bill and georgeanne hemmer were married. they drove away in their brand-new 196 ford falcon and a whol new life together. we had a