these candidates tonight. again, thank you for watching us. i'm bill o'reilly please always remember, the spin stops right here, because we are definitely looking out for you. now to bret baier in iowa, for the debate. [ applause ] >> bret: thanks bill. welcome to ames, iowa on the campus of the iowa state university and the republican presidential debate. [ applause ] our event is being sponsored by fox news and the washington examiner. in conjunction with the iowa republican party. we've been seeing on fox news channel, streamed on foxnews.com. you can log on and check out how you can react to our debate. we are being heard on fox news radio and these folks in the studio are just fired up, as

you can hear. [ cheering and applause ] >> bret: okay. now let's meet the candidates. former senator rick santorum. businessman herman cain. congressman ron paul. former massachusetts governor mitt romney. congresswoman michelle bachmann. former minnesota governor tim pawlenty. former utah governor jon huntsman. and former speaker of the house, newt gingrich. [ applause ] >> bret: joining me at the desk tonight chris wallace. and byron york and susan ferrechio. we are gathered at an unsettling moment for americans. we've watched the stock market on a wild rollercoaster ride this week as people are anxiously tracking balances and retirement accounts and college funds.

14 million people don't have a job tonight. millions more have given up looking or have taken part-time work to scrape by. the nation's credit rating downgraded for the first time in history. last weekend in afghanistan, more american lives were lost than on any other day in this decade-long conflict. so tonight, we are respectfully asking, the candidates, to try to put aside the talking points. to try to put aside the polished lines that get applause on the campaign trail, near iowa and around the country. and to level with the american people. to speak from the heart about how you would navigate this country, through the challenges america faces. let's begin. congresswoman bachmann, you say you can turn the economy around within one quarter by cutting taxes, reducing

spending and repealing the health care law. this week you said it isn't that difficult and solutions aren't that tough to figure out. isn't it unrealistic to suggest that something as mastiff and complex as the u.s. economy can -- as massive and complex as the u.s. economy can rebound in three months? >> we can start to seek recovery within three months. not the whole recovery. but we can to see it if we put in place what we know to be true. we should not have increased the debt ceiling. in the last two months i was leading on the issue of not increasing the debt ceiling. that turned out to be the right answer this is part of the movement that we are seeing across the country. i've been leading that movement. i've been giving it voice. it is not just republicans. it is affected democrats, independents, libertarians. all coming together, because two days from now bret, we get to send a message to barack obama. you are finished in 2012!

you will be a one term president! [ applause ] >> bret: governor romney congresswoman bachmann says she can start to turn the economy around in three months. how long would it take you? >> i'm not going to give awe exact timeframe. if you spend your life in the private sector and understand how jobs come and go, you understand that what president obama has done is the opposite of what the economy needed. almost every action he took made it harder for entrepreneurs to build businesses. for banks to make loans. for businesses to hire and build more capital. what s to be done, seven things come to mind: make sure our corporate tax rates are competitive with other nations. make sure regulations and bureaucracy works not just for the bureaucrat in washington but for businesses that are trying to grow. three, have trade policies that work for us.

four, energy policy that gets us energy secure. five, to have the rule of law, six great institutions that build human capital. capitalism is also about people. and seven, to have a government that doesn't spend more than it takes in. and i'll do it. [ applause ] >> bret: governor romney, you mentioned leadership on the economy. you are the front-runner in this gop field. when it came to weighing in on the debt ceiling deal in congress, many on this stage say you were missing in action. some columnists said you were in the mittness protection program. hours before the house voted you released a statement saying you could not support the bill. is that leadership? >> this is a critical issue, how big is the government going to be? in the days of john f. kennedy the government took up with the state and local governments 27% of the economy. today government consumes 237%

of the economy. we are inches from no longer having a free economy in is a critical issue. therefore, well before the debate got pushed along, i signed a pledge, saying i would not raise the debt ceiling unless we had cut, cap and balance. and that is the view i took june 30th and reiterated that throughout the process and to the end. >> bret: when candidates go over the a lotted time they've agreed to this system that's you hear, the bell. we'll try to not ring the bell that much. it is not the doorbell. to be clear here, you congresswoman bachmann and congressman paul being against that final compromise deal. if you were president, you would have vetoed that bill? >> i'm not going to eat barack obama's dog food. what he served was not what i would have done if i were president. if i had been -- i'm not

president now, though i like to have been. if i were president, i would have cut federal spending. capped federal spending as a percentage of the total economy. and work for a balanced budget amendment. if we do that we can rein back the scale of government. that's what i said june 30th. >> bret: congressman paul, when standard & poor's downgraded the country's credit rating one of the reasons s&p listed was because of partisan gridlock in washington. what specific things would you do as president to increase growth, calm the markets, create jobs that could pass through a divided congress? >> they didn't downgrade it mainly because they couldn't come to a conclusion. they didn't dough what was going on. the country is bankrupt and nobody wanted to admit. when you are bankrupt you can keep spending. these weren't cuts. you have to restore sound money. you have to understand why you have a business cycle. why you have boons and busts.

if you don't to way you can solve the problems. a failed monetary system that -- the interest rates that are lower than they should be encourages debt. to get out of that, all this other tinkering, you cannot do that unless you liquidate debt. you don't bailout the people that are bankrupt and dump the debt on the people that is what has happened. you have to allow liquidation of debt, eliminate the investment, get growth again by having a better tax structure lower taxes invite capital back into this country. get less regulation. under those conditions you can have growth again. >> bret: and you can get it through a divided congress? [ laughing ] >> the divided congress will exist for a long time to come. yes, you would have to get it through a divided congress. the one thing is, if you approach it constitutionally on the principles of liberty,

you can bring people together. >> if we have to cut, maybe we wouldn't be so determined that you can't cut one nickel out of military around the world. near the democrats or the republicans want to cut that. if you want to cut you have to put the militaryism on the table as well. [ applause ] >> bret: mr. cain, we know you have a four point economic plan. one specific thing, what one specific thing would president cain do first to restart the economic engine? again with the caveat that one thing would have to get through a divided congress. >> make the tax rates permanent. that's one of the four point plans. the business sector is the economic engine. you have a group that is is talking about spending. you have a group talking about cutting. i represent growth. it starts with the business sector putting fuel in the engine. in addition to that one thing that you asked know identify,

we must have a maximum tax rate for corporations and individuals of 25%. take the capital gains tax rate to zero. take the tax on repatriated profits to zero. make them permanent. and i believe we can turn it around. one other thing, we don't have an option to wait longer than 90 days. it is imperative that we get this economy going in 90 days, with the next president of the united states of america. >> bret: governor huntsman you new hampshire union leader you intend to convene a council of business leaders to figure without is needed to improve our economy. you have been running for president for three months now. we checked your website. we were unable to find a detailed plan in the middle of an economic crisis, shouldn't you already have a pretty detailed plan by now? >> the plan you will find on our website, it is coming. we've been in the race only for a month and and -- and a

half. i intend to do what i did as governor of utah. we to be a good state and made it number one in this country. if you want to -- i'm going to do what i did as governor. it is called leadership. looking at how the free market system works. creating an environment that speaks to growth. we cut taxes historically. we created the most business-friendly environment in the entire country. we were the best managed state in the country. we maintained a aaa bond rating. all of the things this country needs. when you look at me and ask, what is that guy going to do? look at what i did as governor. that is what i'm going to do and what this country feeds. >> bret: speaker gingrich some on this stage have run big companies, turned around companies, some manage payrolls. what makes you more qualified than anyone else on this stage to create jobs and grow the ?

>> you've been asking about divided government. this coming saturday is the 30th anniversary of ronald reagan signing the tax cut done with divided government. he did it by going to the american people with clarity, creating a sense of urgency. bringing pressure to bear on democratic congressmen and building a bipartisan majority. that tax cut lead to seven years of growth, which in our current economy would be the equivalent of adding 25 million jobs, four trillion to the economy and 800 billion dollars this new federal revenue. a decade later, as speaker of the house we had divided government many we negotiated with bill clinton. largest entitlement reform of your lifetime. we passed the first tax cut in 16 years. largest capital gains tax cut in history. unemployment dropped to 4.2%. how would the country feel today at 4.2% unemployment?

that's my credential. >> bret: governor pawlenty you say your plan with tax cuts and spending caps would grow the economy by 5% a year for 10 years. a rate that never been achieved in 10 years in a row. with the last two quarters averaging less than 1% growth even some republican budget analysts skeptical, openly, of that plan. is your proposal just pie in the sky? >> the united states of america needs a growth target. it needs to be aggressive and bowl. i don't want the united states' growth target to be anemic like barack obama. is the bar high? yes do we need that growth to get out of this hole? you bet. i hope people go to my website and read that plan. it is the most specific of any candidate in this race. where is barack obama on these issues? you can't find his plans on of the pressing financial issues. where is barack obama's plan

on social security reform? medicare reform? medicaid reform? i'll offer a prize to anybody in this auditorium or watching on television, if you can find barack obama's specific plan on any of those items, i will come to your house and cook you dinner. [ laughing ] [ applause ] >> bret: what do you think of that? >> or if you prefer i'll come to your mouse and mow your land. in case mitt wins i'm limited to one acre. one acre. >> bret: governor any response? >> that's just fine. >> bret: okay. senator santorum, nothing about your lawn. governor pawlenty says america can quickly grow 5% a year for 10 years, with the right mix of policies. is he right? >> america has unbounded

potential. i think putting a limit on that potential, we've grown at faster rates. it has been focus on one thing as i've traveled to 68 count these iowa, 50 in the last 14 days, i've been talking about what we are going to do to grow the manufacturing sector. when i grew up in pennsylvania, a little steeltown, 21% of this country worked in manufacturing. it is now nine. if you want to know where the middle of america went. it went to china, malaysia we need to bring it back. i put together a four-point plan, including producing more energy. the big thing i proposed is take the corporate rate which makes us uncompetitive. particularly in exporting goods and cut it to zero for manufacturers. you want to create opportunity for businesses, cut that tax to zero.

our jobs will come back. [ applause ] >> bret: turn ing the economy around the is top -- turning the economy around is the topic we've received the most messages, teeths about. finding specific solutions to the country -- tweets. finding specific solutions will be the topic of debate toe night. >> government now pawlenty and congresswoman book hand there's an expression expression minnesota nice. governor pawlenty, you say representative bachmann has no accomplishments in congress. you have questioned her ability to serve as president because of her history of migraines. governor, is she unqualified or just beating you in the polls? >> chris to correct you, i have not questioned

congresswoman bachmann's migraines. i don't think that is an issue. the only headache i hear on the campaign trail is the headache barack obama has given the people of this country with his lousy leadership and lucy economy. [ applause ] >> as to congresswoman bachmann's record. she has done wonderful things in her life. it is a fact in congress her record of accomplishment and results is nonexistent. that's not going to be good enough for our candidate for president of the united states that is not going to be good enough for the president of the united states to serve in that capacity. the american people are going to expect and demand more. we need somebody who can contrast with barack obama on results. if you go to my record in minnesota you will see government spending went from historic highs to historic lows. we an point conservative justices. we did health care reform the right way no mandates, government take-overs and that is the record we will need to

beat barack obama. >> chris: congresswoman bachmann i'm going to ask you in a moment your own question about governor pawlenty. i want to give you a moment to respond to his comment you have to record of accomplish and there's something missing in your resume because you do not have executive experience. >> thank you for asking the question. i would say governor, when you were governor in minnesota you implemented cap and trade in our state. and you praised the unconstitutional individual mandates and called for requiring all people in our state to purchase health insurance that the government would mandate. third, you said the era of small government was over. that sounds more like barack obama, if you ask me. during my time in -- [ applause ] >> -- during my time in the united states congress i've fought all of these unconstitutional measures as well as barack obama am i led against increasing the debt ceiling the last two months.

>> chris: you want 'tis pated the question i was going to ask. congresswoman bachmann that about the worse thing you can say about a fellow republican in this campaign that he reminds you of barack obama? >> the policies that the governor advocated for were cap and trade. he praised and wanted to require minnesotans to purchase the unconstitutional individual mandate in health care. he said the era of small government is over. i have a very consistent record of fighting very hard against barack obama and his unconstitutional measures in congress. i'm very proud of that record. that is what qualifies me, as a fighter and representative of the people, to go to washington, d.c. and to the white house. people are looking for a champion. they want someone who has been fighting. when it came to health care, i brought tens of thousands of americans to washington to fight the unconstitutional individual mandates.

i didn't praise it. when it came to cap and trade, i thought it was everything that -- i fought it with everything in me, i introduced the lightbulb freedom of choiceéi a> chris: i'm sure you have been waiting for the opportunity governor pawlenty, 30 seconds to respond. >> i'm surprised congresswoman bachmann would say those things. not the kinds of things she said when i was governor. she has a record of misstating and making false statements. she says she is fighting for these things. she fought for less government spending, we got more. she led the effort against obama care, we got obamawear. -- obama care. it is not her spine we are worried about it is her record of results. if that is your view of results, please stop, because

you are killing us. >> chris: congresswoman bachmann. >> i was at the tip of the spear fighting against the implementation of obama care in the united states congress. nancy pelosi, harry reid and barack obama ran congress. but i gave them a run for their money. again on cap and trade i was there from the beginning giving speaker pelosi a run for her money. i asked her about her number one target to defeat last year i was taking them on, on nearly every argument they put forward. when others ran, i fought. and i ran against the increase of the debt ceiling. [ applause ] >> bret: let's hold our applause to get more questions in. >> chris: governor romney, you are campaigning as the man who can fix the economy. you acquired american pad and paper. two u.s. plans closed.

385 jobs cut. later almost 2,000 workers were laid off or relocated. when you were governor massachusetts ranked 47th of the 50 states in job growth. you are going to be the jobs president? >> absolutely chris. let me tell you how the real economy works we invested in 100 different companies. not all worked. there are some in washington that don't understand how the free economy works. they think if you invest in a business it is always going to and they don't always go well. i'm proud of the fact think that learned about how you can be successful at an enterprise, why we lose jobs, how you gain jobs. in those 100 businesses we invested in, tens of thousands of jobs, net/net were created. herman cain and i have worked in the real economy. if people want to send to washington someone who spent

their entire career in government, they can choose a lot of folks. but if they want to choose somebody who understands how the private sector works they have to choose one of us, because we've been in it during our career. as governor when i came in jobs were being lost month after month, we were able to add jobs, balance our budget and get massachusetts back on track. our unemployment was below the federal level three of the four years i was in office. >> bret: chris will continue his round of questions on this ron. coming up, illegal immigration, battle over health care. we'll be right back from ames, iowa, after a short break. a lot of times, things are right underneath our feet,

and all we need to do is change the way we're thinking about them. a couple decades ago, we didn't even realize just how much natural gas was trapped irocks thounds of feet below us. technology has made it possible to safely unlock this cleanly burning natural gas. this deposits can provide us with fuel for a hundred years, providing energy security and economic growth all across this country. it just takes somebody having thidea, and that's where the discovery comes from.

i'm chairman of the iowa gop thank you for joining us tonight. as the son and grandson of farmers i like many iowans was raised to appreciate hard work, thrift and personal responsibility. iowans understand a return to these same values necessary to get our nation back on track. from meeting candidates in our coffee shops to our fields the iowa caucuses provide everyday hardworking americans an opportunity to personally question presidential candidates on their principles and solutions for meeting the challenges facing our great nation. that process continues tonight. as our republican candidates share their vision with iowans and all americans at a time when our fellow citizens are

seeking strong and bold leadership. again, thank you for joining us and thank you for being part of the first in the nation caucus process. >> bret: welcome back to the auditorium on the campus us of iowa state. and the first republican debate in the hawkeye state. back to another fiery round of questions from chris wallace. >> chris: thank you. speaker gingrich one of the ways we judge a candidate is the campaign they run in june your entire staff resigned along with your staff here in iowa. they said you were undisciplined in campaigning and fundraising. last report you were a million dollars in debt. how do you respond to people who say that your campaign has been a mess so far? >> first of all, chris, i took seriously to put aside the talking points. i wish you would put aside the gotcha questions.

[ applause ] >> like ronald reagan who had 13 senior staff resign the morning of the new hampshire primary and whose new campaign manager laid off 100 people, because he had no money. like john mccain who had to run an inexperience sieve campaign because the consultants spent it. i intend to run on ideas. congress should come back monday and repeal the dodd-frank peel, sarbanes-oxley, repeal obama care. hard idea for washington reporters to cover, but an important idea because it is key to american manufacturing success. i would love to see the rest of tonight's debate asking us what we would do to lead an america whose president has failed to lead instead of playing mickey mouse games. [ applause ]

>> chris: speaker gingrich if you think questions about your record are mickey mouse, i'm sorry i think those are questions people want to hear answers to and you are responsible for your records. >> i think that there's too much attention paid by the press corp about the campaign minutia and not enough paid by the press corp to the basic ideas that us from barack obama. -- that distinguish us from barack obama. [ applause ] >> chris: governor huntsman, at the risk of raising speaker gingrich's ire i'm going to ask you about your record. you supported a stimulus package in 2009. you said the obama package was not big enough. you signed on a cap and trade market. you indivorce civil unions for same-sex couples and served as

president obama's ambassador to china. some have suggested that maybe you are running for president in the wrong party. >> chris, let me just say i'm proud of my service to this country. if you love your country, you serve her. during a time of war, during a time of economic hardship. when asked to serve your country in a sensitive possession where you can bring a background to help your nation i'm the kind of person who will stand up and did it and i will take that philosophy to my grave in terms of the stimulus. it was failed. i talked about the need for more tax cuts in the stimulus we didn't have enough. why did i talk about the feed for tax cuts for business? because we had done it in utah. we created a flat tax in utah, what needs to happen in this country. we got the economy moving. we became the number one job creator in this nation and the best managed state. that's what needs to happen in this nation. i'm running on my record and

i'm proud to run on my record. >> chris: mr. cain you have a compelling personal story and strong record as a businessman. you also have a growing list of questionable statements. you said that communites have the right to ban muslims from building mosques, before you later apologized. you have stated that you do not have a firm plan yet as to what you would do in afghanistan until you talk to the generals. you at one point in the campaign didn't know about the so-called palestinian right of return during a big debate about the mideast peace issues. how do you reassure people that you know enough to be president of the united states sir? >> you want me to answer all of those in one minute chris? pick one. i know more about the palestinian right of turn issue now than i did then. but, i know about it. i've been documented. the first point that you raised about saying communities have a right to ban mosques. no, that's not exactly what i

said. unfortunately, the people who helped you put that together have misquoted me. i have gone on record and i put it in a press release. that says, if anyone misunderstood my intent, i apologize for that. but never will i apologize for saying that sharia law does not belong in the courts of the united states of america. [ applause ] >> relative to afghanistan, since we did this last, i have learned more about afghanistan. you may recall one of the things that i always stress make sure you are working on the right problem. we have three problems i now have a better understanding. if i get an opportunity to rebuttal, i'll tell you what those three are. >> bret: now we turn to sue soon ferrechio from the washington examiner. >> we start with governor

huntsman. you said we need to bill a fence to secure our borders then deal with millions of illegal immigrants already here. you said there has to be an alternative to sending them back. that's unreal list . are you proposing citizenship for illegal aliens? >> i'm a conservative problem solver. i'm pro-life, pro-second amendment, pro-growth and economics. when elected president the thing we need to do most on illegal immigration there has been zero leadership in washington. we've created this patchwork of solutions in a lot of the states which makes for a complex and confusing environment. when elected president, i'm simply going to prove to the american people that we can secure the border. that's what they want done. i'm not going to talk about anything else, until we get it done. secure the border. 1800 miles a third of it done between fencing and technology and boots on the ground, we

can tpwrb. i will talk to the four border state governors and get verification that we have secured the border. once that is done, we can move on. this discussion has zero in the way of intellectual credibility until such time as we secure the border. [ applause ] >> governor romney, in 2008 you said you favored allowing american companies to hire more skilled foreign workers. with the unemployment rate at 9.1%, do you still think employers need to import more foreign labor? >> of course not. at the same time, we want to make sure america is a home and welcome to the best of brightest in the world. if someone comes here and gets a ph.d in physics that is the person i would like to staple a green card to their diploma rather say go home. we let people overstay their visa, they get to stay. i want the best and brightest

to be metered into the country based on the needs of our sector and create jobs by bringing technology and innovation from people around the world. we are a nation of immigrants. we love legal immigration. for legal immigration to work we have to secure the border and we also have to crackdown on employers that hire people who are here illegally. i like legal immigration. i'd have the number of visas we give to people that come here legally, determined by the needs of our employment community. we have to secure our board and crackdown on those who bring and hire here illegally. >> mr. cain, when president obama joked about protecting the borders with alligators and a moat, do the only did you embrace the idea you uped the ante with a 20 foot barbed wire fence. were you spear ? >> america has got to learn how to take a joke.

senate. applause ] >> lou me to give you my real solution to the immigration problem. i yes, we must secure the border with whatever means necessary. promote the path to citizenship. we have a path to citizenship for i will -- illegal aliens it is called legal immigration. i happen to agree with empower the states. if we work on the right problem, we will be able to solve it. in the case of immigration we've got four problems we need to work on simultaneously. america can be a nation with high fences and wide open doors. that's what built this nation. we can have high fences and wide open doors, all at the same time. [ applause ] >> speaker gingrich, you recently told univison you are looking at the idea of having

citizen boards choose which illegal immigrants to stay and which go. who decides the memberships of the boards and how would they work? >> it is important to look at how the selective service commission worked in ww two. it was local, practical d making people taught it was fair and reasonable. i thought the president's speech in el paso where he talked about moats and al i go was the perfect symbol of his failure as a leader. he failed to get any immigration reform through when he controlled the senate and controlled us. he could ram through obamacare but he couldn't deal with immigration. now he has the republicans in the house in charge and attacks which i think is very sad for a president of the united states on an issue like this. we ought to control the border. i agree with governor huntsman we can. i would be prepared to take as many from homeland security's bureaucracy in washington and

move them to texas, arizona and new mexico, as needed to control the border. we should have english as the official language of government. and a method of distinguishing between people who have lived here a long time and people who have come here recently. >> congressman paul you are opposed to a system that requires employers to verify immigration status of their workers. why would you want to eliminate one more tool to curb illegal immigration? >> i don't like putting the burden on our businessmen to be a policeman. i also reisn't the fact that illegals come in -- i also reisn't the fact that illegals come in the country and have problems, if a church helps or feeds them, we don't blame the church. i have a strong position on immigration. i don't think we should give amnesty and they become voters. i do think we should deal with our borders. one way i would suggest we could do it is pay less attention to the borders between afghanistan and iraq

and pakistan and bring our troops home and deal with the border. why do we pay more attention to the borders overseas and less attention to the borders here at home? we now have a mess on the borders. it has more to do with it than just immigration. we are financing some of military against the drug dealers on the borders now to the tune of over a billion dollars. there is a mess down there. but it is much bigger than just the immigration problem. i do not believe in giving entitlements to illegal immigrants at all. there should be no mandates on the states to make them do it. [ applause ] >> bret: we'll be returning to the economy throughout the debate. byron york has the next of questions. >> we start with governor romney in 2005 when you were governor of massachusetts, you successfully appealed to

standard & poor's to upgrade your state's credit rating. you used a combination of spending cuts and new revenues to put massachusetts on a more sound financial footing. even approvingly cited a tax increase passed by the democratic state legislature. question, doesn't this show that sometimes raising taxes is necessary? >> no. i don't believe in raising taxes. as governor i cut taxes 19 times. let's talk about the first part what you said. i was fortunate enough to be a governor that got an increase in the credit rating in my state. we got a president who got a decrease in the credit rating of our nation. because our president doesn't understand how to lead and grow an economy. i was proud of the fact that republicans and democrats worked together in massachusetts to cut spending. i came in, we had a huge deficit. i to the legislature and said i want expanded powers to be able to cut spending not just

slow rate of growth but cut spending and they gave it to me and i did. every single year i was governor we balanced the budget. by the end of my term we had put in place over a two billion dollar rainy day fund that kind of leadership is what allowed us to get a credit upgrade from standard & poor's that's the leadership we need in the white house. >> government now pawlenty, you say you -- governor pawlenty you say you balanced without tax increases. in 2005 you levied a tax on cigarettes. you said you had to compromise with a democratic legislature to to end government shutdown. doesn't that show when leaders are faced with big deficiencies they sometimes have to raise taxes? >> -- no. i have the best record of financial management of any governor in the country. cato institute gave only four governors in america an "a"

grid i was one. the other agree aren't running the other three are not thinking about running. i had the first government shutdown in 150 years. we did put together a package, i pal withed the budget every time -- i balanced the budget every time i was governor. ended this year with a surplus. i did agree to the cigarette fee, i regretted that. the courts later held it to be a fee. nonetheless, it was an increase in revenues. we didn't even need it. my record of leadership in minnesota, cutting spendinging from historic highs to historic lows. balancing the budget every time. doing health care reform the right way. stands in contrast to barack obama. he should cancel his cape cod vacation, call the congress back and get to work on this. barack obama is missing in action. he should have the kind of leadership i had when i was governor of the state. >> next representative bachmann this is a question about that cigarette tax

increase. you were in the minnesota state legislature, at the time. you said you opposed the tax. in the end, you voted for it. now you promise never to raise taxes. why would you compromise then, but not now? >> that's right. i was very vocal against that tax. and i fought against that tax. the problem is, when the deal was put together, governor pawlenty cut a deal with the special interest groups and he put in the same bill, a vote to increase the cigarette tax, as well as the vote that would take away protections from the unborn. i made a decision, i believe in the sanctity of human life. and i believe you can get money wrong, but you can't get life wrong. that's why i came down on that decision that i made. [ applause ] >> governor pawlenty, do you have a response? >> what is wrong in the answer is the answer. congresswoman bachmann didn't vote for nabil because of a stripping away of pro-life

protection she voted for it and now ing that as an execution. she speaks of leading efforts in washington and pin minute. leading and failing is not the objective. leading and getting results is the objective. i've got the best record of results as any candidate in this race. >> this is exactly what i'm trying to illustrate. we need to have a president of the united states who stands firm on their conviction. this is what i have demonstrated for everyday that i have been in congress. i've a consistent record of standing on my convictions. i didn't cut deals with special interests where you put the pro-life issues together with tax increase issues. that's a nonnegotiable. when we come to a nonnegotiable, we must stand. and i stand. [ applause ] >> governor we'll come back around. very quickly.

>> her answer is illogical if there were two bad things in the bill a tax increase and hypothetically stripping away pro-life protections, which we weren't. then it is a double reason to vote against it. she voted for it. >> i need to respond to that. >> i understand. you have the next question senator. i promise. senate. applause ] >> congresswoman bachmann, 15 seconds. >> this is what i want to say, if a member has to vote one way think would be increasing the cigarette tax. another way they would not be voting for the7ew pro-life protection. it was a choice. the governor put us in that box. and i chose to protect human life. >> we'll come back around later. >> next to senator santorum.

>> yes we are. >> you see me in your hometown but you wouldn't see much of me on television. it is totally true tonight. >> deficit cutting super committee is now getting the work. democrats will demand savings come from spending cuts and tax increases maybe three dollars in cuts for every one dollar in higher taxes is there any ratio of cuts to taxes that you would accept? >> no. because that's not the problem. the problem is that we have spending that has exploded. government has averaged 18% of gdp as a percentage of the overall economy that government eats up. we are now at almost 25 . revenues down two, three percent if you look at the problem, the problem is in spending, not taxes. we'll get those taxes up if we grow the economy. i put forth a plan to grow the economy. i've provided leadership in the past to get bipartisan

things done. i sympathize with michelle bachmann who says i'm going to stand firm on these things. you need to stand firm on these things. but you can't stand and say give me everything i want or i will vote no. you have to find the principles like i did on welfare reform. i said three things to cut entitlement reform. end federal entitlement, which we did. require work, which we did. put a time limit onv&sç welfare. we did those three things. we compromised on everything else. i didn't get everything i wanted. but i got the core and we transformed welfare. you need leaders, people who are good at leadership, not showmanship. >> you would not negotiate on raising taxes? >> absolutely not. because it is not the problem. democrats know it is not a problem. you go out to the public and layout the facts. i've been traveling around iowa, i layout the facts to people. they say this makes sense.

we need get the economy growing that doesn't mean taking more out of it, that means creating energy jobs, manufacturing jobs. and my plan will do that. >> i'm going to ask a question to everyone. say you had a deal, a real spending cuts deal, 10-1 as byron said, spending cuts to tax)ñç increases. speaker you are already shaking your head. who on this stage would walk away from that deal? raise your hand if you feel strongly about not raising tabs you would walk away on the 10-1 deal. >> mr. speaker why are you shaking your head? >> i think this super committee is about as dumb an idea as washington has come up with this my lifetime. i used to run the house of representatives. i have some general notion of these things. the idea that 523 senators and congressman are going to sit around for 12 months while 12

people are going to sit in some room and come up with a trillion more force us to choose between gutting our military and accepting a tax increase is irrational. they are going to walk in and say we can shoot you in the head or cut off your right leg, which do you prefer? what they ought to do is scrap the committee now. recognize it is a dumb kwrfpld go back to regular legislative business sign every subcommittee the task of findings saveses in the open through regular legislative order and get rid of this secret phony pweufplts. [ applause ] -- they all raised their hands. they are all saying they feel so strongly about not raising taxes that a 10-1 deal they would walk away from. now to chris wallace with questions on health care. >> chris: governor pawlenty, you admit that you -- in the last debate about governor

romney's health care plan. you said the president's plan and the romney plan are so similar that you called them both obamnicare and you said i don't think you can prosecute the case against president obama if you are a co-conspirator. can you tell governor romney what he and president obama have conspired to do? >> i don't want to miss that chance again chris. look, obamacare was patterned after mitt's plan in massachusetts. for mitt or anyone else to say there aren't substantial similarities or they are not essentially the same plan isn't credible. that's why i call it that and i'm happy to call that it again tonight. that is not the only similarity between governor romney's record and president obama's record.

in spending, i've got the best spending record i took minnesota's spending from highs to lows. mitt ran up spending in his watch as governor 44% in four years in the area of judicial selects the boston globe said two out of three or so of mitt's judicial selection, judge selections were either pro-choice, democrat or liberal. i appointed conservatives to my supreme court. we have to show contrast not similarities to barack obama. >> chris: governor romney 30 seconds to respond. >> i think i like tim's answer in the last debate better. there's some similarities between what we did in massachusetts and what president obama did. there's some big differences. one is, i believe in the 10th amendment of the constitution. that says, powers not

specifically granded to the federal government are reserved by the states and the people. we put together a plan that was right for massachusetts. the president took the power of the people and the states away and put in place a one size fits all plan. it is bad law, bad medicine and if i'm president of the united states on my first day i will direct the secretary of hhs to grant a waiver from obamacare to all 50 states. >> chris: governor, do you think that government, at any level has the right to make someone buy a good or service just because they are a u.s. resident? where do you find that authority that mandating authority, government making an individual buy a good or service in the constitution? >> chris, you're asking me what do we think we should do about obama care? i think you have to repeal obamacare and i will and put in place a plan that allows

states to craft their own programs. >> chris: where do you find that authority in the constitution? >> are you familiar with the massachusetts constitution? i am. the massachusetts constitution allows states to say our kids have to go to school. it has that power. the question is that a good or bad idea? i understand different people come to different conclusions. what we did in our state was we said people are going to the hospital and getting the stay to pay. taxpayers are picking up hundreds of millions of dollars of costs from people who are free riders. we said we are going to incest those people who can afford to pay for themselves, do so. we believe in personal responsibility. that was our conclusion. the right answer for every state is to determine what is right for those states no to impose obamacare on the nation. that's why i would repeal it.

>> chris: congresswoman bachmann you are a big believer of the 10th amendment and granting power to the states. does that make any difference whether mandatory health insurance is being imposed by a state or the federal government? >> no, i don't believe it does. i think the government is without authority to compel its citizens to purchase a product or service against their will. because effectively, when the federal government does that, what they are doing is saying to the individual, they going to set the price of what that product is. if the federal government can force citizens or if a state can force their citizens to purchase health insurance there is nothing that the state cannot do. this is clearly an unconstitutional action. whether at the federal level or state level. i will not rest as the president of the united states, until we repeal obamacare. as the nominee of the republican party, i also will

not rest until i can elect additional 13 senators who agree with me so we'll have a filibuster proof senate and we can repeal obamacare. [ applause ] >> chris: congressman paul, you are a constitutional expert. you talk a lot about the constitution way do you think of this argument the state has a constitutional right to make someone buy a good or service because they are a resident not because they are driving and need a license, just the fact they are a resident. >> the way i would understand the constitution the government can't prohibit the stays from doing bad things. -- the states from doing bad things. you don't send in a federal police force and throw them in court. they do have that leeway under our constitution. we have trouble in this medical problem. we've drifted so far from care differed by the marketplace. once you get the government involved and both parties have

developed a bit of a medical care delivery system based on corporations. corporations are doing well whether it is obama or under the republicanses. drug companies, insurance, organized medicine do well, management companies do the patient and doctors suffer. every time you have government get in with regulations there's a wedge driven in between the doctor and patient. we have to get the people more control of their care. that's why medical savings accounts could introduce the notion of market delivery of medical care. [ applause ] >> senator santorum your thoughts? >> first, i was the first author of medical savings accounts with john kasich in the house. this is an important argument. this is the 10th amendment run amok. michelle bachmann says she would go in and fight health

care being imposed by states, but wouldn't fight marriage being imposed by the states. that would be okay. we have ron paul saying, what the states, whatever they want to do on the 10th amendment is fine. if they want to pass polygamy, fine, sterilization, fine. no, our country is based on moral laws. lincoln said, the states do not have the right to do wrong. i respect the 10th amendment. but we are a nation that has values. we are a nation that was built on a moral enterprise and states don't have the right to tramp over those because of 10th amendment. [ applause ] >> when we come back, we'll take a short break we'll talk about a couple of people who are not here tonight. national security, foreign policy, war on terror and later, social issues. fired up crowd here. check out foxnews.com and vote in our online poll.

we'll be right back after this break.

[ applause ]

>> bret: welcome back. our next round is a lightning round quick before we get too foreign policy and national security. are we missing a candidate on the stage? we are. she will be right back. congresswoman bachmann. there she is. that's okay. there we go. texas governor rick perry, obviously is not here tonight. he's giving a speech on saturday in south carolina. we're told he's getting into this race. but he's not answering questions tonight. he's not taking part in the straw poll on saturday. is he out-smarting you? congressman paul? [ inaudible ] >> bret: are you worried about his strategy?

>> no i'm pleased that he's coming in. he represents the status quo i feel like i'm separated from the other candidates with my strong belief in liberty and limited government and different foreign policy. >> bret: mr. cain, what about texas governor perry? >> welcome to the contest. from my perspective, it doesn't bother us or my campaign. that's just one more politician and that makes this business problem solver stand out that much more. >> bret: governor huntsman, your thoughts? >> we all need prayers and i hope he offers a lot for everybody on this stage. aside from that we also feed jobs in this country i hope if he does get in this race he expands this dialogue about job creation. the people know that president obama has had 2 1/2 years to get it right on the most important issue we face,

expanding the economy and creating jobs. he's fundamentally failed us. anyone who is going to expand this group and brings a little savvy on the subject i think is a net plus. >> greta: scholz garten. >> is here in iowa not in the race yet. congresswoman bachmann is she stealing your thunder? >> i like sarah palin a lot. we are very good friends. i think there's room in the race for governor perry, sarah palin and bret you too. >> bret: speaker gingrich. >> mayor giuliani has every right to run. governor perry has a great record of job creation in texas. very formidable person. governor palin has a nationwide audience. it is a shock times to political folks the first delegates are chosen in january. people have lots of time to come and play. they are missing this great

opportunity to be with you guys and have all the fun we are having here tonight. i would like forward to anybody who wants to run, that's what america is about. >> bret: foreign policy and national security. governor pawlenty. another five u.s. soldiers were killed today in afghanistan after the single biggest loss that helicopter crash over the weekend, last weekend. almost 10 years after 9/11, after the killing of osama bin laden, casualties mounting there, costs adding up, many calling the government there corrupt. is it still worth it? >> first of all, let's stop and pause and reflect upon the loss of life the five brave members of the military that you mentioned, as well as the 30 lost about a week ago and all the others who have been lost or wounded in that conflict. we all not just our words of thanks and appreciation to their families our thoughts

and prayers. we wouldn't have the country we have without those brave men and women. we owe them with not just our words, but with our deeds. [ applause ] >> as for afghanistan we were justified in the invasion, it was 10 years ago. people killed americans we needed to go there, find them, bring them to justice or kill them. in terms of where we are now, 10 years removed i was there last summer with governor perry, met with general petraeus he thought would it take two years from last summer to have an hordely and successful wind down of -- to have an orderly and successful wind down. president obama has accelerated that faster than general mullen or petraeus recommended. i would have accepted their recommendations and drawn them down a little slower. >> so it is still worth it? >> it is. but we have to have a successful draw down not one ing to barack obama's campaign calendar. >> bret: governor romney in

june 2009 you argued that america's willing to fight wars of liberation nurture democracy and human rights all over the world. what made america the hope of ther. a full embrace of george w. bush's freedom agenda. last debate about afghanistan you said, we've learned that our troops shouldn't go off and try to fight a war of independent -- of independence for another station. those two statements are different. have your views changed? no. we have helped the people of afghanistan establish freedom from the taliban. now we are at a point where they have to earn and keep that freedom themselves. this is not something we are going to do forever. we've been there 10 years training the afghan troops. sometime within the next two years we are going to draw down or troops and reach a point where the afghan military is able to preserve the sovereignty of their own nation from the teary of the

taliban. that has to -- from the tyranny of the taliban. that has to happen. according to as i said in the last debate, according to the timetable established and communicated by the generals in the field. those generals recommended to president obama we should not start drawing our troops down until after the fighting season in 2012. he took a political decision to draw them down faster than that. that is wrong. we should follow the recommendation of the generals and look for the people of afghanistan to pick up that fight and preserve that liberty that has been so dearly won. >> as president obama was decidinging to do in libya, you were asked what you would do. you said exercise a no-fly zone this evening. after the president launched military action you said i would not have intervened. i think there were other ways to affect gadhafi.

are you certain about the way forward in libya and where it stands now? >> this is a good example of a gotcha question. >> bret: no, it is not. >> go back previous to greta van susteren two weeks earlier, when i said what we should do go in covertly use egyptian and other allies not use american forces. i said that thing specifically after the president that day announced gloriously to the world as president of the united states that gadhafi has to go. and i said if the president is as serious about gadhafi going, this is what we should do. the following interview came after the same president said, i didn't mean go meant go. i meant go maybe we should have humanitarian intervention. i was commenting on fox about a president who changes his opinion every other day. ought to be covered by a fox commentator using all the things i said, not hand picking the ones that fit your premise. >> bret: mr. speaker the question was are you now

certain the way forward in libya? >> i talked recently to the general who is probably the most knowledgeable senior general speaks fluent arabic. who said we have a bigger strategic deficit than our fiscal deficit. i think we need to rethink everything in the region. we need to rethink afghanistan, iraq and i think we need to recognize right now iran is on offense. our troops are in danger everywhere in that region. i think we need a very serious national debate about it. >> bret: governor huntsman you were former ambassador to china for the obama administration. last week new instances cyber espionage hacking into u.s. computers. experts say all signs point to china. would you as president consider cyber attacks acts of war? >> absolutely. this is the new war field,

cyber intrusion is. what we need is to use this issue as not only an economic development tool also a national security tool. we need early warning capabilities and safety guards and counter measures. not only have government institutions been hacked into. private individuals have been hacked. this is also part of a dialogue that has not taken place with the chinese. we need dialogue at the highest levels between the united states and china. that is not happening. this is a relationship the united states and china both on the world stage as far as you can see into the 21st century we have to deal with the chinese. we better get it right. i understand this relationship, i've been at it for 30 years. it would be great to have a president of the united states who knew something about china. >> chris: governor pawlenty, you say we have to prevent iran from getting nuclear weapons. you said syrian president assad must go.

would you rely on the idea of international sanctions that president obama has been using or would you be more forward leaning in point possibly using military action. >> we need to use an increasing number of tools and measures, as to iran. i believe we should undertake every plausible to deny their intentions and plans to get a nuclear weapon, including sanctions, some of the good work you saw with some of the scientists on their way to work in iran. some of the good work you saw with computer virus in the end, we should take every plausible step to deny that intention. as to syria, assad is phoug down and killing his people, up -- is mowing down and killing his people up to 2,000. palm beach. will not say he should go. -- he suggested he and hillary clinton suggested assad is a reformer. he's not a reformer he's a killer.

he sticks his thumb in the eye of our best friends in the world. israel, he repeatedly sticks his thumb in israel's eye we should stand shoulder to shoulder with israel. they are one of our best friends in the world. [ applause ] >> congressman paul, you say president obama is not too soft on iran. you say he's too tough on iran. sanctions are not diplomacy you say. they are a precursor to war and embarrassment to a country that pays lip service to free frayed. >> chris: is that your policy towards iran. >> they have no evidence that they are working on a weapon. think of what we went through in the cold war when i was in

the air force, after i was drafted. through the 60s, we were standi up against the to have yes -- soviets. they had 30,000 jury missiles. think of the agitation and worrying of a country that might get a nuclear women some day. think how many nuclear exception surround iran, chinese, indians, pakistanis, israelis, united states, china has nuclear weapons. why wouldn't it be natural they might want a weapon internationally they would be given more respect. why should we write people off in the 50s we at least talked to them. at least our leaders and reagan talked to the soviets. what is so terribly bad about this. countries you put sanctions on, you are more likely to fight them. i say a policy of peace is free trade stay out of their internal business. do get involved in these wars

and bring our troops home. [ applause ] >> chris: your policy towards iran is if they want to develop a nuclear weapon that's their right, no sanctions, no effort to stop them? >> i think that makes it worse. why would that be so strange if the soviets and chinese have nuclear weapons. we tolerated the soviets, we didn't attack them. they were the greatest danger to us in our history. you don't go to war against them. this idea of sanctions, all these free traders put on these trade sanctions this is why we still don't have trade relationships with cuba. it is about time we talk to cuba and stop fighting these wars that are 30, 40-years-old. [ applause ] >> chris: senator santorum --

>> as awe for of the iran -- as the author of the -- iran is not iceland, ron. iran is a country that has been at war with us since 1979. iran has killed more american men and women in uniform in iraq and afghanistan than the iraqis and afghans have. the iranians are the existential threat to the state of israel. ask the israelis what keeps them up at night? let me finish. >> no, no! . there are rules here. >> i know there are rules. and you have been giving these guys a lot of time so let me answer the question. >> the senator is wrong on his history. we've been at war in iran for a lot longer than '79.

we started it in 1953 when we sent in a crew, installed the shah and the blow-back came in 1979 because we don't mind our own business that's our problem! [ an us a ] -- [ applause ] >> chris: mr. cain, you told bill o'reilly in june, the way you stop iran from getting a nuclear weapon is for us to get serious about real energy independent strategy. do you think that more domestic oil production in this country is going to convince the mullahs in tehran not to pursue a nuclear weapon? >> i believe our energy strategy is directly related to national security as well as stopping iran in their efforts. the head of iran, ahmadinejad

has said that he wants to wipe israel off the face of the earth. i take that seriously. he has also said that he's not going to listen to the united states, britain or anybody else in their attempts to do what they want to do. that being said, there is more to foreign policy than bombs and bullets. theirs bombs, bullets and economics. if we go serious about maximize -- maximizing our energy resources we can become a player on the world market. as the price of oil goes down it put as economic squeeze on iran this is why i believe we should have a serious energy independent strategy in order to be able to be a player on the world market that's way by using our energy resources, not just oil, but all of our resources to become energy independent. [ applause ] >> chris: congresswoman bachmann, you say we don't win

the war on terror by closing guantanamo and reading miranda rights to terrorists. congressman paul says terrorism suspects have committed a crime and should be given due process in civilian courts. could you tell congressman paul why mice wrong? >> simply, terrorists who commit acts -- acts against u.s. citizens people from foreign countries who do that do not have any right under our constitution to miranda rights. we've seen that guantanamo bay has yielded significant information. we've learned that led to the capture and the killing of bin laden. this is a tool we need to prostitute the new type of war, new type of warfare -- to prosecute the new type of war, new type of warfare. iran is the central issue newt mideast. their capacity to being a

nuclear power. they are one of the four state sponsors of terror in the world. i sit on the house select committee on intelligence. i can't reveal classified information. as president of the united states i will do everything to make sure that iran does not income a nuclear power. >> chris: 30 seconds congressman paul. >> i think she turns our rule of law on is head. she said the terrorists don't deserve protection under our courts. therefore, judgment has to be made. they are ruled a terrorist. who rules them a terrorist? i thought our court recognizes that you have to be tried. we've done this and brought individuals back from pakistan and other places. we've given them a trial in this country, over 300, at least near 3 , we tried and put them in brings -- 300, we tried and put them in prison. this idea we have to reject the rule of law. we are at the point where this administration -- please let me finish. this administration already

has accepted the principle when you assume somebody is a terrorist they can be targeted for assassination, even american citizens that affects all of us. you don't want to translate our rule of law into a rule of mob rule. [ applause ] >> senator santorum, you say attorney general holder must be under the influence in fact you have suggested perhaps smoking mushrooms, to want to try terrorists in civilian court. are you suggesting that congressman paul is under the influence? >> anyone that suggests that iran is not a threat to this country not a threat to stability in the mideast obviously is not seeing the world clearly. that we have to go around and apologize for the fact that we have exerted our influence to create freedom around the world. i don't apologize for that.

i don't apologize for the iranian people being free for a long time. now they are under a law that tramples the rights of women, gays and people throughout their society. and it the greatest supporter of terrorism and setting up training camps in venezuela and other countries to threaten us. iran is a country that must be confronted. i was in front of this curve. i offered the iran freedom of support act in 2004 blocked by joe biden. we got it passed. if rick santorum and when rick santorum is president, iran will not get a nuclear weapon, because the world as we know it, will be no more. >> you've her the war propaganda that -- you've heard the war propaganda that is liable to lead us into the sixth war. iran is a threat because they

have some militant there is. but they are all around the world and they are not a lot different than others. iran does not have air force that can come here. they don't -- they can't even make enough gasoline for theps service. here we are building this case up, they are building up this case, just like we did in iraq. bill up the war propaganda. there was no al-qaeda in iraq. they had nuclear weapons and we had to go in. i'm sure you supported that war as well. it is time we quit this. it is trillions we are spending on these wars! [ applause ] >> when we come back, we'll try to get ahold of6j[1g thin/%÷ social issues that should be fun. and the most pressing issues right now, getting america back to work, after this break. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now.

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[ applause ] >> bret: welcome back.

now to byron york from the washington examiner. >> we are going to talk about social issues. we start with speaker gingrich. you said you would impose a loyalty test for muslims to serve in your administration. you said, we did this in dealing with the nazis. and we did this in dealing with the communists. are you comparing american muslims to nazis and what specific loyalty test would you require them to take? >> actually, i didn't describe it as applied to muslims. i described it as applied to everybody. we had a cat -- catholic head ofs knowledge for the fbi turned out to be a soviet spy. cuban-american refugee turned out to be a spy for over 20 years. my point was, there is nothing illegitimate about seeking to make sure that the people are loyal to the united states if they work for the government.

i was responding to this insane moment where "the new york times" attempted bomber the guy who built the car bomb from pakistan was asked by the judge who said you swore an oath of loyalty to the united states. he said to the judge, i am your enemy, i lied. and the judge seemed mystified at the idea that somebody would have lied. my point is, we know for example from the verona papers and others there were communist spies. i would suggest we need security provisions to ensure those americans and in the american government are loyal to the united states. [ applause ] >> thank you. next mr. cain, you recently said this about governor romney's mormon faith: it doesn't bother me, but i do know it is an issue with a lot of southerners. could you tell us what it is about mormonism that southerners find

objectionable? >> i did make that statement. it does not bother me. but because i live in atlanta, georgia have been in my hometown for 10 years, i listen to what people say. what they say is that they are not real clear about how his mormon religion relates to the majority of the people's protestant, christian religion in the south that was the point i was trying to make. i was not an aspersion on his religion i was saying what others have told me about not being clear in understanding his religion. that's what it was. >> you have already apologized for remarks you made about islam. is your focus on other peoples' religions hurting your campaign? >> it is not. my focus is not on other people's religion. i believe in the first amendment to the constitution. i believe the government does not have a right time pose

religion on people. when you are talking about sensitive issues, i think we owe it to ourselves to make sure people are committed to the constitution of the united states of america first. [ applause ] >> next representative bachmann. in 2006 when you were running for congress you described a moment in your life when your husband said you should study for a degree in tax law. you said you hated the idea. then you explained, but the lord said be submissive. wives you are to be submissive to your husbands. as president, would you be submissive to your husband? [ booing ] >> thank you for that question byron. marcus and i will be married for 33 years this september 10th. i'm in love with him.

i'm so proud of him. what submission means to us, it means respect. i respect my husband. he's a wonderful godly man and great father. he respects me as his wife. that's how we operate our marriage. we respect each other, we love each other. i've been so grateful we've been able to build a home together. we have wonderful children and 20 foster children we've built a business and life together and i'm very proud of him. [ applause ] >> thank you representative. now a few questions about gay marriage starting with governor romney. when the massachusetts supreme court legalized gay marriage in 2003, you accused the justices of an up soing for themselves the powers that should belong to the state legislature. now the new york legislature has legalized gay marriage do

you believe state lawmakers have the right to make same-sex marriage legal in their states? >> i would rather have people make that decision than justices. i believe the issue of marriage should be decided at the federal level. you may wonder why? because people move from state to state in a society like ours they have children. if one state recognizes a marriage and the other does not, what kind of divorce proceeding potential would there be? marriage is a status not an activity that goes on within the walls of a state. a result our marriage status relationship should be constant across the country. i believe we should have a federal amendment to the constitution that defines marriage as a relationship between a man and woman. because i believe the ideal place to raise a child is in a home with a mom and a dad. >> next governor huntsman. recently, a des moines

register poll found that 58% of likely caucusgoers, republican caucusgoers here in iowa consider support of civilian unions a deal kill . why are you right and most other candidates wrong? >> i'm running on my record. i'm proud to run on my record. some run from their record, i'm running on my record. i believe in traditional marriage first and foremost, i've been married 28 years, seven kids. i believe in civil unions. i think this nation can do a better job when it comes to equality. i believe this is something that ought to be discussed. i don't have any problem with states having this discussion. i support civil unions. [ applause ] >> the question was, why are they wrong? >> they are not wrong. all i'm saying is this ought

to be an issue that takes place at the local level of government. that's where these decisions ought to be made. as for those polled, everybody can come to this with their own point of view. i believe in traditional marriage. but i also believe we haven't done an adequate job when it comes to equality. that is my personal belief. everyone is entitled to their personal belief too. >> representative paul, you said you believe defining marriage is a job that should be left to the states. recently senator santorum asked if a state wanted to allow polygamy, would that be okay too? what is your answer to that? >> that is like asking if the states wanted to legalize slavery or something like that, so past reality that no state is going to do that. on the issue of marriage, i think marriage should be between a single man and a single woman. and the federal government shouldn't be involved. i want less government involvement. i don't want the federal

government having a marriage police. i want the states to deal with it if they need to. if you didn't need the states really, why do we have to have a license to get married? why don't we just go to the church? why can't we permit them to do whatever they call it that is their problem not mine. so nobody elses forces their definition of marriage on you. that is what we have to prevent. less government would be better if you have to have regulations let the state governments do it. [ applause ] >> senator santorum? >> sounds like representative paul would say poll muss marriage is okay. it is not beyond reality it is being litigated in our courts now which is how gay marriage came about as we see in iowa. seven justices forced gay marriages on the people of

iowa. i was the only one who came and made sure those three justices were7" defeated. because we can't have -- [ applause ] >> we can't have 50 marriage laws. this was the approach that the left took on abortion. which is to pick a few states, courts and go to the supreme court and say equal protection you can't have different state laws then you will have nine people at the supreme court decide wag marriage is in country. you have to fight in each state. i will come to the states and fight to make sure this strategy of picking off a state here and is not successful in transforming marriage. >> i support the federal marriage amendment because i believe we will see this issue at the supreme court some day. as president, i will not nominate activist judges who legislate from the bench. when i was in minnesota i was the chief author of the

constitutional amendment to define marriage as one man, one woman. i have an unblemished record when it comes to this issue. >> our next question, thank you representative bachmann. our next question is for senator santorum. in june you said, i believe any doctor who perform as abortion should be criminally charged for doing so many would you allow no exceptions for cases of rape on incest. polls have shown that large majorities of americans support some exceptions for abortion. are your views too much, even for many conservatives to support? >> the supreme court of the united states on a recent case said that a man who committed rape could not be killed, could not be subject to the death penalty. yet, the child conceived as a result of that, could be. that sounds like a country that doesn't have its morals correct. that child did nothing wrong. [ applause ]

>> that child is an innocent victim. to be victimized twice would be a horrible thing. it is an innocent human life. genetically human from the moment of contraception. we in america should be big enough to try to surround ourselves and help women in those terrible situations who have been traumatized already. to put them through another trauma of an abortion. i think is too much to ask. so i would absolutely stand and say that one violence is enough. >> thank you senator. [ applause ] >> governor pawlenty, you often cite an article in national review saying you may be the strongest pro-life candidate in the race. what is your opinion on what senator santorum said and isn't he more pro-life than you are? >> national review is a respected publication from a conservative and republican perspective. they did an online article

that said based on results, not rhetoric, that i'm perhaps the most pro-life candidate in this race. the reasons are these: number one, when i was in minnesota as governor i proposed and signed into law the women's right to no bill. the positive alternatives to abortion bill. i proposed and signed into law the fetal pain bill and more. our abortion rate in minnesota has dropped dramatically. now at historic lows. in terms of my personal views the only exception i can justify is the life of the mother. i would sign that bill if it came in that form as president or governor. if another bill came with other except that substantially advanced the pro-life cause i would sign that bill too. i want to make progress to limit and ultimately end abortions in this country. i want to move the pro-life cause forward and i have. that's why that publication said that perhaps i'm the most pro-life person on this stage, based on results, not just

rhetoric. >> do you support criminal charges for doctors who perform abortions? >> there should be absolutely consequences for doctors who perform abortions if and when it is illegal. possibility of criminal sanctions or severe civil sanctions. i don't think the woman involved should be criminally sanctioned. >> bret: back now to the economy. susan? >> governor romney, you suggested replacing government jobless benefits with individual unemployment savings accounts. jobless benefits for millions are about to expire in a few months if you were president now, would you extend them? >> we got a lot of people out of work. we got a president that has an entirely failed economic policy. frankly, doesn't know what to do to get this economy going. surely we are going to help people who can find other ways to care for themselves. the most important thick we are talking about is making sure president obama is replaced by someone who knows

how to get this economy going again that's what this debate is about. that's what the american people want to understand. unemployment benefits, i think they've gone on a long time. we have to find ways to reduce our spending. anti-poverty programs and unemployment programs. i would far rather see reform of our unemployment system to allow people to have a personal account which they are able to draw from as opposed to endless unemployment benefits. let's reform the system. make it work better by giving peep responsibility for their on employment opportunities -- giving people responsibility for their own employment opportunities. >> would you sign a bill to extend unemployment insurance if you were president right now? >> i would go to congress with a new system for unemployability. which would have specific accounts from which people could withdraw their own financeds and not put in place a continuation of the current plan. >> thank you. governor huntsman, you have

touted your job-creating ables as utah's chief executive. in the private sector you said you helped create thousands of jobs as vice chairman of the huntsman corporation. of the 12,000 workers almost 10,000 were hired in china and india and other places outside the u.s.. isn't it accurate that you have more experience creating jobs overseas? >> i'm of my experience in the private sector. huntsman corporation is a terrific company. a wonderful example of a family entrepreneurial success story. created jobs to be sure, left -- left communites better than they've found them. created the huntsman cancer institute. if you want to build a facility in the united states, you can't. because of the epa's regulatory rein of terror. the percentage of our gdp from manufacturing is 10 or 11%.

when i was born i was 25%. it used to mean something when you read, made in america. we don't make things any more in this country. in order to that we need serious regulatory reform not just repealing obama care. we need to create a more competitive environment that speaks to real tax reform that allows our entrepreneurs and businesses to step up and get it done and expand our economic base and create jobs. i'm grateful for what huntsman corporation has done. it is a global company. you have to supply customers overseas. let's fix our core in this nation. let's get back on our feet. people are hurting, scared and concerned. >> thank you. congresswoman bachmann, you voted against the debt ceiling increase deal and against the republican's cut, cap and balance bill many you insisted the country was not at risk of default if you had your way

the debt ceiling would not have been raised. what do you say to analysts who insists that americans investments would have been far worse off today? >> it was very important that we not raise the debt ceiling, consider what happened. the congress gave barack obama a blank cheque for 2.4 trillion dollars. what about the american get in return? 21 billion in i will lose -- illusory cuts. from the time i've been in congress we've gone from 8.67 trillion in debt to 16.7. this is madness. i've been across iowa. people are almost unanimous, do not raise the debt ceiling. that was the right thing to do. the worst thing that you could do, is continue to borrow money and spend money that we don't have. >> what do you say to the analysts who say the markets would have -- >> i think we just heard from

standard & poor's. when they dropped our credit rating what they said is, we don't have an ability to repay our debt. that's what the final word was from them. i was proved right in my position. we should not have raised the debt ceiling. we should have cut government spending. which was not done. then we needed to get our spending priorities in order. >> mr. cain, do you agree with that? >> i do not agree with raising the debt ceiling, because the solution they came up with does not solve the problem, as representative bachmann talks about. the way to deal with it is pay those things that need to be paid and then make the tough choices of cutting the other things. agency by agency, program by program, based upon performance metrics. we didn't need to raise the debt ceiling. there was an easy way out and the problem still has not been solved.

standard & poor's has send a -- has sent a message. >> mr. cain, you say that we can boost job creation by eliminating tax on companies that bring back overseas profits to the u.s.. when we tried a tax break like this in 2004, companies just paid bigger dividends to shareholders. why would it work this time? >> for a number of reasons. i think you are looking at a small piece of it. it is a combination of things that i indicated. if you pick out one thing, that is not comprehensive. i talked about lowering the top corporate and personal tax rays to 25%. taking capital gains rates to zero. here's the big one, make them permanent. uncertainty is killing this company. if a company were to decide they were to pay a bigger dividend, so what, it is their money. the people receiving the dividends might be happy with

that. maybe that is the right thing to do. i'm not concerned -- [ applause ] >> i am not concerned about what they will do with that money if it is allowed to come back. i'm more concerned, bring it back so they will have an incentive to make some growth decisions. i don't know one company that talks about how we are going to standstill. it is about growth. that's what i'm about, growth in jobs and the economy. [ applause ] >> speaker gingrich, you say the unemployment problem in america has been made worse by the policies of the federal reserve. you call for auditing the fed and stripping it of its banking powers. congressman paul thinks the fed needs to be abolished. why is the fed worth saving? >> i think having some kind of central bank is an important part of how you deal with monetary policy in the modern world. i would say having chairman bernanke deal with hundreds of

billions of dollars, some estimates as much as 16 trillion, in secret is profoundly a free society. the feds should be totally audited, out in public. decision documents of '07, to '09 should be public. we should now who they bailed out and who they didn't bail out. it is a scandal that the federal reserve is secret. their monetary policy since the late 90s has been a major factor in the bubble created. the fed is going back as reagan did to sound money, certainly a key part of how you get back to prosperity. the fed is the primary villain in failing to have a sound money policy. [ applause ] >> congressman paul, is speaker gingrich wrong to want to save the fed? >> not exactly. my position isn't i closed the

door down immediately, you can phase it out. there are other things we can do in a transition phase. for instance, i'm delighted that mainstream is catching up with this, these days, this is great. [ applause ] >> i made a suggestion, and there's been quite a few who have supported me. we owe the fed 1.6 trillion in treasury bills. they created it out of thin air. we pay them interest on our books. we literally, with legislation would wipe 1.6 trillion off that is not a solution to the monetary problem or spending, if we give you a year to work this out we wouldn't have any of that debate going on. those were scare tactics to square people into doing things that is one thing we could do. we have to deal with the fed, the fed creates the business cycle. if you don't understand the

business cycle you don't know why we have recessions. the sooner we learn that, the better. [ applause ] >> thank you. senator santorum, you said that you were the tea party before there was a tea party. a tea party goal in iowa is to revert back to the goal standard, something you oppose. how do you consider yourself in line with the tea party without agreeing on this major issue? >> i didn't say that the "washington post" said that. i don't take the claim the tea party organization is flat and should stay that way support ideas not candidates. people who say they lead it, most of the tea party people think their leadership is among the people. what i've said is i agree with newt. i think there's reforms we can do at the fed. we need to audit the fed. disagree with most of what ron paul said. just because he's mostly wrong didn't moon he's always wrong. [ booing ]

>> i appreciate his contribution in that regard. i didn't get a chance to comment on this debt ceiling. congressman paul and congresswoman bachmann in the congress they couldn't lead the congress to do something responsible in making sure we didn't have the fiasco we have in place now. we should have balanced the budget. a balanced budget amendment should have been the focus from the beginning. to suggest we never need to raise the debt ceiling. again show manship, not -- showmanship, not leadership. we are borrowing 42 cents of every dollar. medicare, medicaid, social security, defense and interest on the debt is 60%. that means cut everything else and something of those. that's showmanship, not leadership. >> when we come back some closing remarks and maybe a wild card or two, we'll see.

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the thinking that says we have to continue to raise the debt ceiling and spend money we don't have is the wrong premise. the american people are asking for a different bold vision. i was the leading voice against raiding the debt ceiling. that's what the american people want us to do. have our balanced budget and also to have our spending priorities in order that was the right thing to do. >> governor huntsman this week the obama administration announced they would grant waivers to some failing school systems that couldn't meet the standard of the no child left behind program if you were president, would you return to full enforcement of this bush era law? >> no child left behind hasn't worked for this country. it ought to be done away with. we need to take ing to the local level where parents and local elected officials can determine the doesy any of these schools. nobody wants their schools to succeed more. we need choice.

we need vouchers. we need more technology in the classroom. let me say on the default while i can. tw up for a deal for the boehner deal against this nation defaulting. i know i'm a little different than everybody else in that regard. we are 25% of the world's g p. we are the largest financial -- gdp. we are largest financial sector in the entire world. the thought we would let this nation default when we could have a deal on cuts, raising the sealing, gets us toward entitlement reform, i thought speaker boehner should be complimented for what he did. this nation should never default. >> mr. cain if you were president would you return to no child left behind? >> no, no child left behind had some faults. i don't believe in unfunded mandates. i believe the federal government should be out of the business trying to micromanage the education of

our children. [ applause ] >> thank you mr. cain. your answer had special lighting there. time foreclosing comments. each candidate has 30 seconds to close. let's begin with senator santorum. >> i want to thank the people of iowa. my family and, karen and the kids came here three weeks after, we've spent three great weeks enjoying the time and been to 15 one cities in 15 days. -- been to 51 cities in 15 days. as you have seen national media may not pay a lot of attention us to but we pay a lot of pang to the -- a a lot of attention to the people. you can kick the tires and see what kind of president you want. someone who has proven leadership and can get things done in washington, d.c..

and a guy who beat three incumbent democrats. >> mr. cain? >> it is clear from the discussion tonight that america feeds a leader and uniter. i rep -- america needs a leader and uniter. i represent growth. if we don't get in economic engine moving by putting fuel in the engine the rest won't matter. a poet once said, life can be a challenge, can seem impossible but never seems easy when there is so much on the line. send washington a message and send a business problem solver to washington, d.c.. >> i've been in politics for 35 years. my cause has been the cause of liberty. i'm convinced that liberty does not come from our government but from our creator. our goal should be peace and prosperity. under the principles of liberty that you have the greatest chance after keefing peace and prosperity that is why i'm so done on these wars

costing us trillions. why we have to reform the monetary system. why we need honest money a gold standard not paper money. we need to change the environment for our businesses. we need to lower the regulations and taxes and have private contract rights then we can achieve peace and real prosperity. [ applause ] >> governor romney. >> this country is in economic crisis. i think the people of this country understand that. we have unfortunately, as leader of this country, a man who is out of his depth and who doesn't understand what is needed to do to get this economy going again. he just doesn't understand how the economy works because he hasn't lived in the real economy. in order to create jobs -- i believe what we need in this country is someone who is willing to go to work mo believes in america, free enterprise, capitalism, who

believes in opportunity and freedom. i'm that person. i love this country. and i will do everything in my power to strengthen our economy and keep america the hope of the earth. >> congresswoman bachmann. >> the good news is, two days from now here in apes, iowa all of us have a chance -- here in ames, iowa, all of us have a chance to send a message to d.c. about what we think about barack obama and his presidency. i want to do that as president of the united states i'm inviting everyone to come to the straw poll and send a message to washington that they can't miss. >> governor pawlenty. >> god has greatly blessed america. with great blessing comes responsibility. if we don't protect our blessing, freedom we may lose it forever. now is the time for effective