local time. we'll be back at our usual time monday. results will be fascinating. have a good time tonight everybody? [ yeah ] >> sean: we'll see you tomorrow night! welcome to ames, iowa on the campus of iowa state university and the republican presidential debate. [ cheering and applause ] >> bret: our event is sponsored by fox news and the washington examiner in conjunction with the iowa republican party. we've been seeing obviously on fox news channel streamed on foxnews.com, you can log on and check out reaction. you can heard on fox news radio. these folks in the studio are

fired up, as you can hear. [ cheering and applause ] >> bret: okay, now let's meet the candidates. former senator rick santorum. businessman herman cain many congressman ron paul. former massachusetts governor mitt romney. congresswoman michelle bachmann. former minnesota governor tim pawlenty. former utah governor john hundreds man. and former speaker of the house -- speaker of the house, newt gingrich. joining me at the desk my fox news colleague, chris wallace. from the washington examiner, byron york and susan raoufp yo. -- ferrechio. we've watched the stock market as people are anxiously tracking balances and retirement accounts and

college funds. 14 million people don't have a tonight. millions more have given up looking or have taken part-time work to try to scrape by. the nation's credit rating downgraded for the first time in history. as we try to get a handle on the country's skyrocketing debt. last weekend in afghanistan, more american lives were lost than on any other day in this decade lincoln flick. tonight, we are -- decade long conflict. tonight, we are respectfully asking you the candidates to try to put aside the talking points. to try to put an sigh the polished lines that get applause on the campaign trail. and to level with the american people. to speak from the heart about how you would navigate this country through the challenges america faces. let's begin. congresswoman bachmann, you say you can turn the economy around within one quarter by cutting taxes, reducing

spending and repealing the health care law. this week you say it isn't that difficult. solutions aren't that tough to figure out. isn't it unrealistic to suggest that something as massive and -- and he complex as the u.s. economy can rebond in just three months? >> we can start to seek recovery, within three months. not the whole recovery. we can begin to see it if we put in place what we know to be true. we should not have increased the debt ceiling. in the last two months i was leading on the issue of not increasing the debt ceiling. that turned out to be the right answer. this is part of the movement that we are seeing across the country. i've been leading that movement. i've been giving it voice. it is not just republicans. it is affected democrats, independent, libertarians all coming to the. two days from now, we get to send a message to barack obama and the message is this, you

are finished in 2012. and you will be a one term president! [ applause ] >> bret: governor romney, congresswoman bachmann says she can start turn the economy around in three months. how long would it take you? >> i'm not going to give you an exact timeframe. if you spend your life in the private sector and understand how jobs come and go, you understand what president obama has done is the exact opposite of what the economy needed to be done. almost every action he took made it harder for entrepreneurs to build businesses. for banks to make loans. for businesses to hire and bill more capital. what needs to be done, really seven things come to mine: make sure corporate tax rays are competitive. make sure our regulations and bureaucracy works not just for the bureaucrats in washington but for businesses that are trying to grow. three, to have trade policies that work for us not just our

opponents. four, have an energy policy that gets us energy secure. five, have the rule of law, six great institutions that build human capital. capitalism is also about people not just capital and fiscal goods. seven, to have a government that doesn't spend more than it takes in. and i will do it. >> bret: governor romney, you mentioned leadership on the economy. you are the front-runner in gop field. when it came to weighing in on the debt ceiling deal, many on this stage say you were missing in action. some columnists said you were in the mittness protection program. hours before the house voted, you released a statement saying you could not support the bill. is that leadership? >> this is a critical issue. how big is the government going to be? in the days of john f. kennedy the federal government with the state and local governments took up 27% of the

economy. today 37% of the economy. we are inches from no longer having a free economy. this is a critical issue. therefore, well before the debate got pushed along, i signed a pledge saying i would not raise the debt ceiling unless we had cut, cap and balance. and that is the view i took june 30th and reiterated that through the process and to the end. >> bret: when candidates go over the a lotted time, they've agreed to this system, that's what you hear, the bell. we'll try -- we'll try to not ring the bell that much. just to be clear. youpwo)#b#t echoed congresswoman bachmann and congressman paul in being against that final compromise deal. to phrase it another way, if you were president, you would have vetoed that bill? >> i'm not going to eat barack obama's dog food. what he served up is not what i would have been done if i had been president of the united states. i'm not president now, though

i liked to have been. if i were president, what i would have done is cut federal spending. cap federal spending as a percentage of the total economy then work for a balanced budget amendment. then we could rein back the scale of government. that's what i said june 30th. >> bret: congressman paul, when standard & poor's downgraded the country's credit rating last week one of the reasons s&p listed was because of the partisan gridlock in washington. what specific things would you do as president to increase growth, calm the markets, create jobs that could pass through a divided congress? >> they didn't downgrade it because they couldn't come to a conclusion. they couldn't come to a conclusion because they didn't foe what was gong. the country is bankrupt and nobody wanted to admit. these weren't cuts at all. you have to restore sound money. you have to understand why you have a business cycle.

if you don't, there is no way you can solve the problem. the boons and busts comes from a failed monetary system. the interest rates that are way lower than they should be encourages malinvestment and debt. to get out of that all this other tinkering you can do that unless you liquidate debt. you don't bailout people that are bankrupt and dump the debt on the people. that is what has happened. you have to allow liquidation of debt. then go back and get growth again by having a better tax structure, lower taxes. invite capital back into this country. get less regulation. under those conditions you can have growth again. >> bret: you can get it through a divided congress? >> well -- [ laughing ] >> the divided congress will exist for a long time to come. yes, you would have to get it through -- you would have to get it through a divided congress. if you approach it on the principles of liberty, you can

bring people together if we have to cut, maybe we wouldn't be so determined that you can't cut one nickel out of the militaryism around the world. near the democrats or the republicans want to cut that. if you want to cut you have to put the militaryism on the table as well. [ applause ] >> bret: mr. cain, we know you have a four-point economic plan. one specific thing, what one specific thing would president cain do first to restart the economic engine? again, with the caveat that one thing would have to get through a divided congress. >> make the tax rates permanent. that's one of the four-point plants. the business sector is the economic engine. you have a group talking about spending. you have the group that is talking about cutting. i represent growth. and it starts with the business sector putting fuel in the engine. in addition to that one thing that you asked me to identify,

we must have a maximum tax rate for corporations and individuals of 25%. take the capital gains tax rate to zero. take the tax on repatriated profits to zero. make them permanent and i believe we can turn it around. one other thing, we don't have an option to wait longer than 90 days. it is imperative we get this economy going in 90 days, with the next president of the united states of america. >> bret: governor huntsman, you told the new hampshire union leader you intend to convene a council of business leaders to figure out what is needed to improve our economy. you have been running for president for three months. we checked your website. we were unable to fan a detailed plan. in the middle of an economic crisis, shouldn't you already have a detailed plan by now? >> the plan you will fan on our website, it is coming. we have been in the race only a month and a half.

i intend to do what i did as governor of the state of utah. we took a good state and may it number one in this country in terms of job creation. if you want to know what i'm going to do? exactly what i did as governor. it is calledler. looking at how the free market system works. creating a competitive environment that speaks to growth. we cut taxes historically. we created the most business-friendly environment in the country. we were the best managed state in the country. we maintained a aaa bond rating. all of the things this country needs. when you look at me and ask what is that guy going to do? look at what i did as governor. that is what i'm going to do and what this country needs. >> bret: speaker gingrich some have run big companies, some have turned around companies, some managed payrolls. what makes you more qualified than anyone else on this stage to create jobs and grow the economy?

>> you've been asking about divided government. this coming saturday is the 30th anniversary of ronald reagan's signing the tax cut which was done with divided government. i was part of that effort in the house when the democrats were in control. he did it by going to the american people with clarity, creating a sense of urgency. bringing pressure to bear on the democratic congressmen and billing a bipartisan majority. that the tax cut lead to seven years of growth, which in our current economy would be the he excellent of adding 25 million -- the equivalent of adding 25 million jobs. decade later, as speaker of the house we had divided government. we negotiated with bill clinton. largest entitlement reform of your lifetime. we passed the first tax cut in 16 years. unemployment dropped to 4.2%. how would the country feel today at 4.2% unemployment?

that's my credential. >> bret: governor pawlenty you say tax cuts and spending caps would grow the economy 5% per year for 10 years. a rate never an cheeched 10 years in a row. last two quarters averaging less than 1% growth and some republican budget analyst openly skeptical of that plan. is your proposal just pie in the sky? >> united states of america needs a growth target. it needs to be aggressive and bold. i don't want the united states growth target to be anemic like barack obama's. is the bar high? yeah do we need that growth to get out of this hole? you bet. i hope people will read that plan. there's another question, where is barack obama on these issues? you can find his plans on some of the most pressing financial issues of our country. where is barack obama's plan on social security reform?

medicare reform? medicaid reform? i'll offer a prize tonight to anybody in this auditorium or watching on television, if you can find barack obama's specific plan on any of those items, i will come to your house and cook you dinner. [ applause ] >> or if you prefer, i'll come to your house and mow your lawn. in case mitt wins i'm limited to one acre. >> bret: governor any response. >> that's just fine. >> bret: okay. senator santorum. nothing about your lawn. governor pawlenty says america can quickly grow 5% a year for 10 years. with the right mix of policies. is he right?

>> america has unbounded potential. i think we've grown at faster rates than that it has been focus on one thing i've traveled to 68 counties in iowa, 50 in the last 14 days, working and meeting with the people talking about what we will do to grow the manufacturing sector. when i grew up in pennsylvania, little steeltown, 21% of the people in the country worked in manufacturing, it is now 9. if you want to where the middle of america ? to china, malaysia, indonesia. we need to bring it back. i put together a plan including producing more energy. manufacturers use more energy than everybody else in the business world. the big thing is to take the corporate rate which makes us uncompetitive and cut it to zero for manufacturers. you want to create opportunity for businesses cut that tax to zero, our jobs will come back.

[ applause ] >> bret: turning the economy around is the topic we've received the most e-mails, facebook messages, most tweets about. it is topping all of the polls. finding specific solutions to the country's economic ills will be a recurring theme tonight. now to my colleague chris wallace. >> chris: good evening candidates. governor pawlenty and congresswoman bachmann, there's an expression, minnesota nice. some people believe both of you have tested it in recent weeks. governor pawlenty, you say representative bachmann has no accomplishments in congress. you have questioned her ability to serve as president because of her history of migraines. governor, is she unqualified or just beating you in the polls? >> chris, to correct you, i have not questioned

congresswoman bachmann's migraine headaches, i don't think that is an issue. the only headache i hear on the campaign trail is the headache barack obama has lousy economy. [ applause ] >> as to congresswoman bachmann's record, she has done wonderful things in her life. but it is a fact that in congress her record of accomplishment and results is nonexistence that is not going candidate for president of the united states. that is not going to be good enough for the president of the united states to serve in that capacity. the american people are going to expect and demand more. we need somebody who can contrast with barack obama and results. if you go to my record in minnesota. government spending when from historic highs to historic lows. we appointed conservative justices. we did health care reform the right way. no mandates individually. no government take overs. that's the kind of record we will need to contrast and beat

barack obama. >> chris: congresswoman bachmann i want to give you an opportunity to respond to his comments. one, that you have no record of accomplishments in congress and two, there's something missing in your=e resume because you do not have executive experience? >> thank you for asking the question. governor, when you were governor in minnesota you implemented cap and trade in our state. and you praised the constitutional individual mandate and called for requiring all people in our state to purchase health insurance that government would mandate. third, you said the era of small government was over that sounds more like barack obama f you ask me. [ -- if you ask me. [ cheering ] >> during my time in congress i have fought all of these unconstitutional measures as well as barack obama and i led against increase in the debt ceiling the last two months.

>> chris: you anticipated the question i was going to ask. congresswoman bachmann isn't that about the worst thing you can say about a fellow republican in this campaign. that he reminds you of barack obama? >> the policies that the governor advocated for were cap and trade. he praised and wanted to require minnesotans to purchase the unconstitutional individual mandate in health care. he said the era of small government is over. i have a very consistent record of fighting very hard against barack obama and his unconstitutional measures in congress. i'm very proud of that record that is what qualifies me as a fighter and representative of the people to go to washington, d.c. and to the white house. people are looking for a champion. they want someone who has been fighting. when it came to health care, i brought tens of thousands of americans to washington to fight the unconstitutional individual mandate.

i didn't praise it. when it came to cap and trade, i thought it was everything -- i fought it with everything in me, including the lightbulb freedom of choice act so people could purchase the lightbulb of their choice. i believe big government is hurting the united states. we need to have small government. >> chris: i'm sure you have been waiting for the opportunity governor pawlenty, 30 seconds to spoken. >> i'm surprised the congresswoman would say those things. moreover she has a record of misstating and making false statements, another example of that list. she says she is fighting for these things. she fought for less government spending we got more. low the effort against obamacare. we go obamacare. led the effort against tarp, we got tarp. she said she has a titanium spine, it is not her spain we are worried about. if that is -- her spine we are worried about.

if that is your -- >> i was at the tip of the spear fighting against the implementation of obamacare in the congress. nancy pelosi, harry reid and barack obama ran congress, but i gave them a run for their money. again on cap and trade, i was there from the beginning, giving speaker pelosi a run for her money. i was effectively taking them on, on nearly every argument they put forward. i fought when others ran, i fought. and i led against increasing the debt ceiling. [ cheering and applause ] >> chris: i see six other candidates there. i'm going to governor romney. you are campaigning as the man who can fix the economy. let's look at your record sir. you acquired american pad and paper, two u.s. plans were

closed. 385 jobs were cut. later you bought a company, almost 2,000 workers laid off or relocated. when you were governor massachusetts ranked 47th of the 50 states in job growth. question, you were going to be the jobs president? >> absolutely chris. let me tell you how the real economy works. we invested in 100 companies. not all of them worked. i know some people in washington that don't understand how the free economy works. they think if you invest in a business it is always going to go well and they don't always go well. but i'm proud of the fact that i learned how you can be successful why we lose jobs and gain jobs. in the hundreds of businesses we invested in tens of thousands of jobs were ed. i understand how the economy works. herman cain and you are the two on the stage who have worked in the real economy. in people want to send to

washington someone who has spent their entire career in government, they can choose a lot of folks. if they want to choose somebody who understands how the private sector works they have to choose one of us. as governor of massachusetts, when i came in jobs were being lost month after month, we turned that around, we were able to add jobs, balance our budget and get massachusetts back on track. our unemployment was below the federal level three of the four years i was in office. [ applause ] >> bret: chris will continue his round of questions. coming up illegal immigration, battle over health care. go to foxnews.com/politics to check out the live blogging. we'll be back from ames, iowa, after this short break. [ applause ] [ ben harper's "amen omen" playing ] we believe doing the right thing

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hi, i'm chairman of the iowa gop. thank you for join us. as the son and grandson of iowa farmers i like many was raised to appreciate values of hard work, thrift and personal responsibility. iowans understanding a a return to the same values necessary to get our nation back on track. the iowa caucuses provide everyday hardworking americans an opportunity to personally question presidential candidates on their principles and solutions for meeting the challenges facing our great nation. that process continues tonight. as our republican candidates share their vision with iowans and all americans at a time when our fellow citizens are seeking strong and bold leadership.

again, thank you for joining us. thank you for being part of the first in the nation caucus process. >> bret: welcome back. to the first republican presidential debate in the hawkeye state. now back to another fiery round of questions from chris wallace. >> chris: thank you many speaker gingrich, one of the ways we judge a candidate is the campaign they run in june almost your entire national campaign staff resigned along with your staff here in iowa. they said you were undisciplined in campaigning and fundraising. and at last report you were a million dollars in debt. how do you respond to people who say your campaign has been a mess so far? >> first of all, chris, i took seriously bret's injunction to put aside the talking points. and i wish you would put aside the gotcha questions. [ applause ]

>> like ronald reagan, who had 13 senior staff resign the morning of the new hampshire primary. and his new campaign manager laid off 100 people, because he had no money because the consultants had spent it. like john mccain who had to run an inexperience sieve campaign because the consultants spent it. i intend to run on ideas. congress should come back monday repeal the dodd-frank beale, sarbanes-oxley, obamacare hard idea for washington reporters to cover but an important idea because it is key to american manufacturing success. i would love to see the rest of tonight's debate asking us what we would do to lead an america whose president has failed to lead, instead of playing mickey mouse games. [ cheering and applause ]

>> chris: speaker gingrich if you think questions about your records are mickey mouse, i'm sorry i think those are questions that a lot of people want to hear answers to and you are responsible for your record. >> if i get a rebuttal. i think there's too much attention played by the press corp about minutia and not enough to the basic ideas that distinguish us from barack obama. [ applause ] >> chris: governor huntsman, at the risk of raising speaker gingrich's ire, i'm going to ask you about your record. you supported a stimulus package in 2009. you say the obama stimulus package was not big enough. you served as. >> 's ambassador to china. -- you served as

president obama's ambassador to china. some suggest that maybe you are running for president in the wrong party. >> i'm proud of my service to this country. if you love your country, you serve her. during a time of war, during a time of economic hardship. when asked to serve your country in a sensitive position where you can bring a background to help your nation i'm going to stand up and do it. and i will take that philosophy to my grave. in terms of the stimulus, it was failed. i talked about the need for more tax cuts. we didn't have enough. and why did i talk about the need for tax cuts for business? because we had done it in utah. we had done historic tax cuts. we created a flat tax in utah, what needs to happen in this country. we go the economy moving. we game the number one job creator in this nation and the best managed state. that's what needs to happen in this nation. i'm running on my record and i'm proud to run on my record.

>> chris: mr. cain, you have a compelling personal story and a strong record as a businessman. you also have a growing list of questionable statements in this campaign. i want to ask you about those, if i may. you said communites have the right to ban muslims from building mosques, before you later apologizeed. you do not have a firm plan as to what you would do in afghanistan until you talked to the generals. at one point you didn't know about the pal right of return. -- about the palestinian right of return. how do you reassure people that you know enough about the -- >> you want me to answer all of that. i know more about the palestinian right of return now than i've -- than i did then. saying communites have a right to ban mosques.

that's not exactly what i said. unfortunately, the people who helped you put that together have misquoted me. i have again on record -- i have gone on record, if anyone misunderstood my intent, i apologize for that. but never will i apologize for saying that sharia law does not belong in courts of the united states of america. [ applause ] >> relative to afghanistan, since we did this last, i have learned more about afghanistan. you may recall one of the things that i recalls stress, make sure you are working on the right problem. we don't have one problem in afghanistan we have three problems. i now have a better understanding of it. if i get an opportunity to rebuttal, i'll tell you what those three are. >> bret: now we turn to susan ferrechio. the topic illegal immigration. >> we start with governor huntsman.

you said we need to build a fence to secure our borders then deal with the immigrants already here. you said, there's got to be an alternative to sending them back. that's unrealistic. are you proposing citizenship for i will real aliens? >> -- for illegal aliens? >> i'm a conservative problem solve, -- solver. when elected president the thing we need to do most on illegal immigration there's been zero leadership in washington with zero leadership in washington we've created this patchwork of solutions in a lot of the states which makes for a complex and confusing environment. when elected president, i'm going to prove to the american people that we can secure the border. that's what they want done. i'm not going to talk about anything else until we get it done, secure the border. 1800 miles we got a third done between fencing and technology and national guard boots on

the ground. i'll talk to the four border state governors and get verification that we have secured the board. once that is done, we can move on this discussion has zero in the way of intellectual credibility until such time as we secure the border. >> governor romney in 2008 you said you favored allowing american companies to hire more skilled foreign workers. with the unemployment rate think employers need to import more foreign labor? >> of course not we are not looking to bring people in jobs that can be done by americans. if someone comes here and gets a ph.d in physics that's the person i would like to staple a green card to their diploma rather than saying go home. we let people come and overstay their visa, they get to stay. i want the best and the

brightest based upon the needs of our employment sector and create jobs. we are a nation of immigrants. we love kneel immigration. -- we love legal immigration. for legal immigration to work we have to secure the border and crackdown on employers that hire people who are here illegally. i like legal immigration. i'd have the number of visas we give to people determine in part by the needs of our employment community we have to secure our border and crackdown on those that bring folks here and hire here illegally. >> mr. cain, when president obama joked about protecting the borders with alligators and a moat, not only did you embraced the idea, you uped the ante with a 20 foot barbed wire fence, were you serious? >> america has got to learn how to take a joke. [ cheering and applause ]

>> allow me to give you my real solution to the immigration problem. i believe it is full of problems. yes, we must secure the board we are whatever means necessary. secondly, enforce the laws that are there. thirdly, promote the path to citizenship that is already there. we have a path to citizenship for illegal aliens. it is called legal immigration. fourth, i happen to agree with empowering the states. if we work on the right problem, we will be able to solve it. in the case of immigration we've got four problems we to work on simultaneously. it turns out that america can be a nation with high fences and wide open doors. that's what built in nation. we can have high fences and wide open doors at the same time. [ applause ] >> all right, thank you. speaker gingrich, you recently told univison you are looking at the idea of having citizen

boards choose which illegal immigrants can stay and which go. who decides the members -- the memberships of these boards and how would they work. >> in world war ii it was local, practical decision-making people thought it was fair and reasonable. back to your question to herman. i thought the president's speech in el paso where he talked about moats and alligators was the perfect symbol of his failure as leader. he failed get illegal immigration reform through. he could ram through obamacare but he couldn't deal with immigration. now he has republicans in the house in charge and doesn'ts to a level of attack, which i think is very sad for a of the united states on an issue like this. we ought to control the border. he can control the border. i would be prepared to take as many from homeland security's bureaucracy and move them to texas, arizona and new mexico

to control the border. we should english as the official language of government. and a method of distinguishing between people who have lived here a long time and people who have come recently. >> congressman paul you support -- why would you want to eliminate one more tool to -- >> i done like putting the burden on our businessmen to be policemen. i resent the fact that illegals come into this country and they have problems if a church helps and feeds them we don't blame the church or at least we shouldn't in a free society. i don't think that we should give amnesty and they become voters. i do think we should deal with our border. one way i would suggest that we do it is pay a lot less attention to the borders between afghanistan and iraq

and bring -- and pakistan, and bring our troops home and deal with the border. why do we pay more attention to the borders overseas and less to the borders here at home? we have a mess on the borders. it has a lot more to do with unjust immigration. we are financing some of this militaryism against the drug dealers on the borders now to the tune of over a billion dollars. there is a mess down there. but it is much bigger than just the immigration problem. i do not believe in giving entitlements to illegal immigrants at all. there should be no mandates on the states to make them do it. [ applause ] >> bret: we'll be returning to the economy throughout the debate. byron york has the next round of questions. >> thank you. we start with governor romney. in 2005, when you were governor of massachusetts, you successfully appealed to standard & poor's to upgrade

your state's credit rating. you used a combination of spending cuts and new revenues to put massachusetts on a more sound financial footing. you cited a tax increase passed by the democratic state legislature. question, doesn't this show that sometimes raising tacks necessary? >> no -- raising taxes is necessary? >> no, i don't believe in raising taxes i cut taxes 19 times. let's step back and talk about the first part of what you said. i was fortunate enough to be a governor that got an increase in the credit rating in my state. we got a president who got a decrease in the credit rating of our nation. because the president doesn't understand how to lead and grow an economy. i was proud of the fact that republicans and democrats worked together in massachusetts to cut spending. we had a huge deficit. i to the legislature and said i want expanded pow curse to unilaterally cut spending not

just slow the rate of growth, they gave it to me and i did we cut spending. every year we balanced the budget. by the end of my term we put in place over a two billion dollar rainy day fund. that kind of leadership allowed us to get a credit upgrade from standard & poor's that's the leadership we need in the white house. >> governor pawlenty, you say you balanced every budget without tax increases. in 2005 you levied a new tax on cigarettes, which you called a health impact fee. you said you had to compromise with a democratic legislature to end the shutdown. doesn't that show when leaders are faced with big deficits, they sometimes have to raise taxes? >> no. as i said before i've got the best record of financial management of any government in the country. cato institute gave only four governors in america an "a" grid i was one. the other three running or

thinking about running. i -- i had the first government shutdown in 150 years. we did put together a package where i balanced the budget every time in minnesota i was governor. my last budget ended june 30th, this year with a surplus. i regretted the cigarette fee. the courts later held it to be fee. i was a decrease in revenues. my record of leadership in minnesota cutting spending, from historic highs to historic lows. balancing the budget every time. doing health care reform the right way stands in contrast to barack obama. he should cancel his cape cod vacation call congress back into session and get to work on this. barack obama is missing in action. he should have the kind of leadership i had when i was governor of the state. >> next to representative bachmann. you were in the minnesota

state legislature, at the time. you said you opposed the tax. in the end you voted for it. now you promise never to raise taxes. why would you compromise then, but not now? >> that's right. i was very vocal against that tax. i thought against that tax. the problem is, we the deal was put together, now pawlenty cut a deal with the special interest groups. he put in the same bill, a vote to increase the cigarette tax as well as the vote that would take away protections from the unborn. i made a decision. i believe in the sanctity of human life. i believe you can get money wrong, but you can't get life wrong. that's why i came down on the decision i paid. [ applause ] >> governor pawlenty do you have a response to that? >> what is wrong in the answer is the answer. congresswoman bachmann didn't vote for that bill because of a stripping away of pro-life protection. she voted for it and now

creating that as the execution. nonetheless, she speaks of leading these efforts in washington and minnesota. leading and failing is not the objective. leading and getting results the objective. i got the best record of results as any candidate in this race. >> this is exactly what i'm trying to illustrate. we need to have a president of the united states who stands firm on their conviction. this is what i have demonstrated for everyday that i have been in congress. i've a consistent record of standing on my convictions. i didn't cut deals with special interests where you put the pro-life issue together with tax increase issues. that's a fundamental, a nonnegotiable. when we come to a nonnegotiable, we must stan. and i stand. >> governor we are going to come back around. >> her answer is illogical if

there were two bad things in the bill, a tax increase and hypothetically stripping away pro-life protections, which were weren't. then it is a double reason to vote against it. she voted for it. >> i need to respond to that. [ booing ] >> i understand you have the next question senator. i promise. [ cheering and allows ] >> congresswoman bachmann, 15 seconds. >> this is what i want to say f a member has to vote one way they would be increasing the cigarette tax, another way they would not be voting for the pro-life protection. it was a choice. the governor put us in that box. and i chose to protect human life. >> we'll come back around later. >> next to senator santorum.

>> yes. as i told you when i travel around iowa, you see me in your hometown but you probably wouldn't see much of me on television, so it is holding true tonight. >> senator, here you are. the super committee is now gettinging to work. democrats will demand savings come from a combination of spending cuts and tax increases maybe three dollars in cuts for every one dollar in higher taxes. is there any ratio of cut to taxes that you would accept? 3-1, 4-1 even 10-1? >> the answer is no. the problem is we have spending that has exploded. government has averaged 18% of gdp as percentage of the economy that government eats up. we are now at almost 25%. revenues down at two, three percent. the problem is in spending, not taxes. we'll get those taxes off if we grow the economy. i putting forth a plan to grow the economy. i've provided leadership in the past to get bipartisan

things done. i think eyes with michelle bachmann who says i'm going -- i sympathize with michelle bachmann who says i'm going to stand firm. you have to find the principles like i did on welfare reform. i said three continuing things to cut federal entitlement. we wanted to require work. we wanted to put a time limit on welfare. we did those three things. we compromised on everything else. i didn't get everything i wanted. but i got the core of what i wanted and transformed welfare. you feed people who are good at leadership not showmanship. >> you would not negotiate on raising taxes? >> absolutely not, because it is not the problem. democrats know it is not the problem. this is where leadership comes in. you go out to the american public and layout the facts. we need to get the economy growing that doesn't mean

taking more money out. that means creating energy jobs, creating manufacturing jobs. and my plan will do that. >> say you had a deal, a real spending cuts deal, 10-1 as byron said, spending cuts to tax increases. speaker you are already shaking your head. who on this stage would walk away from that deal. raise your hand if you feel strongly about not raising taxes would you walk away on the 10-1 deal? [ applause ] >> mr. speaker why are you shaking your head? >> i think this super committee is about as dumb an idea as washington has come up with. i used to run the house of representatives. i have some general notion of these things. the idea that senators and congressmen will sit around while 12 people picked for political reasons are going to

sit in some room come up with a trillion or force us to choose between gutting our military and accepting a tax increase is irrational. they are going to walk in before thanksgiving and say we can shoot new the head or cut off your right leg, which do you prefer? they ought to scrap the committee now. recognize it is a dumb idea. go back to regular legislative business sign every subcommittee the task of finding savings in the open through regular legislative order and get rid of this secret, phony business! [ applause ] >> just making sure everyone at home and here knows they all raised their hands. they feel so strongly about not raising taxes that a ten-1 deal they would walk away from. now to chris wallace with a round of questions on health care. >> chris: governor pawlenty, you admit -- you've said that

the president's plan and the romney plan are so similar that you called them both obamnicare. you said i don't think you can prosecute the political case against president obama if you are a co-conspirator. can you tell governor romney what he and president obama have conspired to do? >> i don't want to miss that chance again chris. mitt, look obamacare care was pat -- patterned after mitt's plan in misdemeanor. to say they are not essentially the same plan is incredible. that's why i called it obamni care and that is a fair label and i'm happy to call it that again tonight many that's not the only similarity if we are going to take him on, we have to contrast with him on other important issues.

in spending, i've got the best spending record, minnesota -- mitt ran up his spending over four years. in the area of judicial selections the boston globe said two out of three or so of mitt's judicial, judge selections were either pro-choice, democrat or liberal. i appointed conservatives to my supreme court. we have to take it to barack obama and show contrast, not similarities. >> chris: governor romney, 30 seconds to respond to the criticism of other parts of our record. >> i think i liked tim's answer in the last debate better. there's some sim layers between what we did in -- similarities between what we did in massachusetts and what president obama did i believe in the 10th amendment of the constitution. powers not specifically

granted to the federal government are reserved by the stays and the people. we put together a plan that -- by the states and the people. we put together a plan that was right for the people of massachusetts. the president put together a one size fits all plan it is bad law, bad medicine and if i'm president of the united states on my first day i will deck the secretary of hhs to grant a -- a waiver from obamacare to all 50 states. >> chris: governor, do you think government at any level has the right to make someone buy a good or service because they are a u.s. resident? where do you find that authority? that mandating authority, government making a individual buy a good or service in the constitution? >> chris, you're asking me what do we think we should do about obamacare? we have to repeal obamacare and i will put in place a plan that allows states to craft

their own programs. >> chris: where do you find that authority in the constitution? >> are you with the massachusetts constitution? -- are you familiar with the massachusetts constitution? i am it allows states to say our kids have to go to school. is that a good idea or bad idea? different people come to different conclusions. in our state we said we are finding people that can afford health insurance that are going to the hospital and getting the state to pay. taxpayers are picking up hundreds of millions of dollars of costs from people who are free riders. we said, we are going to insist those people who can afford to pay, do so. we believe in personal responsibility. if the people aren't willing to do that then when are going to help the government pay. that was our conclusion everyone the right answer for every state is determine what is right for those states and not impose obamacare. that's why i would repeal it.

>> chris: congresswoman bachmann you are a big believer in granting power to the states. does that make any difference whether mandatory health insurance is being imposed by a state or by the federal government? >> no i don't believe tate does. i think the government is -- the government is without authority to compel a citizen to purchase a product or service against their will. we the federal tkpwoefts that, they are saying to the -- federal government does that, they are saying to the individual they are going to set a price of what that product is if the government or a state can force their citizens to purchase health insurance, there is nothing that the state cannot do. this is clearly an unconstitutional action whether at the federal level or the state level. i will not rest, as president of the united states, until we repeal obamacare. as the nominee of the republican party, i also will not rest until i can also

elect an additional 13 senators who agree with me, so we'll have a filibuster-proof senate and we can repeal obama care. [ applause ] >> congressman paul you are a constitutional expert. you talk a lot about the constitution. what do you think of this argument the state has a constitutional right to make someone buy a good or service because they are a resident not because they are driving and need a license, just the fact they are a resident? >> way i would understand the constitution the federal government can't prohibit the stays from doing bad things. i would consider that a very bad thing. you don't send a federal police force because they are doing it and throw them in court. they have that leeway under our constitution. we have problem in this medical care problem. we've drifted so far from our care delivered by the marketplace. once you get the government involved. both parties have developed a bit of a medical care delivery

system based on corporations. the corporations are doing well whether obama or under the republicans. drug companies, insurance companies, organized medicine, do well. the patients and doctors suffer. every time the government gets in with regulations and have mandates there's a wedge between the doctor and patient. we have to get the people more control of their care. that's why these medical savings accounts could introduce the foe shun of market delivery of medical -- the notion of market delivery medical care. [ applause ] >> chris: senator santorum, your thoughts about -- >> this is a very important argument this is the 10th amendment run amok. michelle bachmann says she would go in and fight health care, being imposed by states,

but couldn't go in and fight marriage being imposed by the stays, that would be okay. we have ron paul saying what the states, whatever the states want to do is fine. if the stays want to pass polygamy that's fine, sterilization that's fine no our states are based on moral laws. lincoln said the states do not have the right to do wrong. i respect the 10th amendment. but we are a nation that has values. we are a nation that was built on a moral enterprise. stays don't have the right to tramp over those because of the -- states don't have the right to tram over those because of the 10th amendment. >> when we come back we'll talk about a couple of people who are not here. national security, foreign policy, the war on terror. and later, social issues. fired up crowd here. check out foxnews.com and vote

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