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>> we have to quit meeting like this, guys. to the race amid a crisis. minutes away from the first republicans, 2012, voting starts soon in what they call the iowa straw poll, a crucial barometer after the midwest showdown the president hopping on a bus monday to cruise through the very state, minnesota and illinois to talk about the economy and jobs. across the pond after a week, prime minister david cameron saying do not blame the weak economy shall the street has been quiet today and britain looks to u.s. security experts for some help and liberals fueling the argument keeping the peace costs money and spending costs on peacekeepers there is bad, mark stein, not surprised that this is being picked apart. what do you think, mark? >> well, this is basically the same story as the downgrade, neil, because this is the logical end point of the big government welfare society.

these people have been marinaded in stimulus in the obama word, their entire lives and they are the children of stimulus, the children of dependency. >> neil: who are the people protesting then? who are they really? >> well, they're people, one fifth of british households. one fifth of british children are raised in households where nobody works. /10 of british adults have not done a day's work since tony blair became prime minister on may 1st, 1997. this is life long dependency, multi-generational dependency, and people who know nothing, but through shop windows to steal the latest electronic toys. >> neil: they blame cameron for raining on that parade. >> yeah, because the welfare state is unaffordable. and he, your previous guests were saying they add hire david cameron for taking a

deal of 2-1 in terms of spending cuts versus revenue raising, but what we see on the street is the hollowness of that policy and the wickedness of that policy. these are people who have no understanding that human self-worth and dignity comes with getting up in the morning, dressing, going off and doing a day's work and providing for your loved ones. that is a lost world to these people. >> neil: i'm just wondering if you're president obama or any of the ruling parties in washington and looking at these demonstrations and saying, look, we've got to make some tough cuts, tough decisions or at least curb the growth of some of the programs that people have come to expect even though the money isn't there, for them to expect. that they might hold back for fear that it gets just like that here? >> yeah, absolutely. i've got a chapter in my book that deals with just that scenario and i quote the gerald ford line, a government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything

you have. but the problem is, that there's an intervening stage, that a government big enough to golf you everything you want isn't big enough to persuade you to give any of it back when times are tough. wh what we see in madison, wisconsin is the selfishness of the so-called dependency community culture in the end when times get tough, people say no, i want my pension, no, i want my benefits, no, i want to retire at 53 no matter if it bank rupts the state. >> when you and we see all of the protesters in all of these countries, are they speaking for the majority or missing the silent majority, spiro agnew and richard nixon and

others-- >> i think the silent majority, if you look at greece, the class is causing a pins er movement, bad cop/good cop routine squeezing both ends. you see that in california people have to pay both for the bureaucracy and the dependency, eventually get sick of that burden and start to leave the state and i think, i think that the danger in a country like greece is it that if you've got a great business idea in athens, the best thing you can do is buy a one way ticket out of there. there's no point in trying to develop that business idea in the climate in greece. and the danger is that once the state and its dependents get to a certain size and the productive class gets crushed by this great rotting dead albatross of dependency and benefits and welfare and stimulus that the government hangs around its neck.

we don't want to wind up like london. >> neil: all right. you think this guy speaks well, you should read the way he writes after america is running up the debt charts. mark, good seeing you again. >> always a pleasure, neil. >> neil: meanwhile, a craft, a carrier, a crisis. the former ambassador to our united nations john bolten, on the connection. well, i guess we dribble and they dare. it's a weird world, isn't it? >> well, i think what is happening with the state of the economy is we're seeing if we don't get the recovery going we're going to have great difficulty in maintaining an adequate national defense. the president has already cut it to the bone while he's been ramping up with domestic stimulus spending and in the debt ceiling deal recently agreed by congress and the president, the trigger mechanism if it comes into play will result in absolutely

devastating, essentially indiscriminate cuts to the military budget. so when you add all of these together, it's a pretty grim prospect if we don't change it. >> neil: which is why i was referring to an unnamed carrier, referring to the chinese showing off its military vessel that supposedly is going to be their start at being a super defensive power in their own right, flexing some muscle at the same time at a time when the u.s. financially is very weakest. >> no, absolutely. you know, part of the problem with defense planning over the past five or six years under secretary of defense gates said all of our future conflicts are going to look like iraq and afghanistan, so, we can scale down on the heavy strategic side. i think actually, we're entering into a world of multiple potential threats and we don't know where the next big one is going to come from and therefore we've got a burden preparing for a range of potential conflicts not

just one kind. we have therefore been underspending on defense for quite some time. leaving out the wars in iraq and afghanistan and our weapons procurement system is in grave trouble. the chinese don't need to grow to be a world power equal to us, if they conduct and deny access into the western pacific simply to be a competitor out there. which would have grave i implicatio implications. >> neil: are you going to run for president. >> i'm thinking about it, if you look at the path of the obama administration has taken, failed to produce economic recovery at home. dramatically weakened our national defenses, we need candidates on the republican side who understand the nexus between the economy and defense and are able to articulate it. >> neil: is rick per-- does rick perry? >> i don't know. we'll see his coming out speech in a couple of hours,

the risk is we're not going to have a robust debate on national security. haven't had much debate in the past two and a half years, the people in 2012 are going to be asked to buy a pig in a polk if we don't have this out on the table. >> neil: we'll watch closer to the announcement. good 0 seeing you again. >> thank you. >> neil: the iowa straw poll, rick perry heads to south carolina to officially jump into the presidential race and the south carolina attorney general is here and only here. i know you're worried about making your savis last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here -- to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me

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>> all right. maybe it's the calm before the next storm. investors are bracing for more whiplash after monday suffering the worst back to back swing since january of 2010. worries growing it is looking for a nasty setup and charles payne has seen this before. it usually doesn't end well. explain, my friend. >> well, you know, you look at

the trends. especially the gdp trends and this is very eary to that. last couples '07 to '08 the same act trends in gdp. i think this quarter is going to be pivotal. if we don't go into the red. we'll dodge a bullet, but it will be close. >> neil: why? what worries you the most? >> this is a vote of no confidence. a vote of no confidence to the point people aren't moving. we've seen it, banks are sitting on a lot of money and corporations are sitting on a lot and so are people. the last report came out about consumer income we saw a savings shoot from 5% to 5.4% and people are starting to batten down the hatches and nothing to do with the debt ceiling debate. talking 0.4% growth in the first quarter. this has something to do with the larger element of losing faith in the system itself, i think. >> neil: you know, and you were commenting on fox business network that we haven't gotten beaten down on some of the sectors and thoughts so you were out doing

some groups, what were you looking at. >> agriculture i absolutely love right now, for my retirement fund so my employees, cummings engines, stock, love a lot. cs industries i like and that was downgraded and still went up and listen. >> neil: why, why those guys? >> it's a-- you have global tentacles, and i'm betting on the rest of the world, i hate to say it. >> neil: the rest of the world kind of looks iffy. >> the western empires look iffy. you know, portugal is now a suburban of brazil, but it used to own brazil. you know, so the tables have turned, but if you look right now, i don't think anywhere, anytime in history have this many emerging countries really been galloping this hard and want what we have and i've got to tell you it's not just what they're growing and how they're growing. look at top ten, top five countries where their 15-year-old kedds are on education, china, number one. south korea is right there. america 17 in reading and our high score and lower in

reading and math. and lower countries greece, portugal, spain. a reason for that that goes so deep, it's not just even about economic policy, it's about, i think, i think what you saw in london exemplifies it, the western world basically got lazy, confident, arrogant and now we're paying a heavy price for it e and do you think we're going into a recession? >> i think that we never came out of a recession for a large swaths of the country. listen over 6 million people who are permanently unemployed, unemployed six months or longer, unlikely not going to get a job or never before, not paying that salary and those are lost souls and listen they'll become dependent on the government a record amount of people on food stamps. whether they technically call it a recession, i think they called the last three recessions too early. unmroement would peak, in the last three recessions unemployment peaked at 12 months later. i don't know what's going on. changed the metric.

i don't understand, but it's great for the presidents, for both parties, all presidents have been able to say, hey, i ended the recession. you can't end the recession on main street. maybe somebody in the capital think you ended it, but regular people know that's not the case. >> neil: all right. charles, thank you. i guess pain in the butt now, geez. >> trying to be fair and balanced. >> neil: you are, buddy, you are. and texas governor rick perry, headed to south carolina, and saying he has an overall solution to the leadership mess and a fine print on the run for president he's going to be announcing in a few hours in south carolina, and that state's fine attorney general is joining us now. attorney general you're looking forward, to this announcement in your state why? >> well, first, neil, this highlights the importance of south carolina's first in the south presidential primary and we're seeing a lot of candidates paying a lot more close attention and south carolina is starting to see that attention and i applaud

anyone that comes here and makes the announcement and highlights the importance that south carolina will play in choosing the next nominee. >> neil: the governor has been a big believer in allowing folks to find jobs and your state is embroiled in a big battle with the national labor relations board whether boeing can open up a plant which it has opened and hired a thousand folks and they're protesting that move saying it should stop. did the governor bring that up? will he bring that up? how will south carolina's union-free environment work in its favor or his remarks? >> any candidate running for president, especially any candidate travelling through south carolina is well served to bring up the national labor relations board attack on jobs in south carolina. and across the country. this board is got a political agenda and it's the first board that i've ever seen where you have it performing two functions of government. of judicial and executive. it prosecutes some cases

before its very own judge and i find it ironic that the board is having trouble or having trouble complying with the congressional subpoena claiming it's the separation of powers issue when they're violating the same separation of powers. >> neil: quickly switching to the health care soap opera, last time we chatted we thought it would ultimately make its way to the supreme court. it looks after the appellate court has effectively watched it, that it is, this idea that you could force people to buy their open health insurance, something you've been against and obviously, these -- this appeals court, it's going to the appeals court now. how soon do you expect the supreme court to take it up, if it takes it up. >> i'm reluctant to say what the court chooses to do. probably the next calendar year, probably during the presidential debate. and denver tracks and we expect to convene on the port after first time of next year. >> attorney general, very good

having you, they have you very much. >> thank you. >> record low mortgage rates that still no one can buy. why the heck is that? engineer smart gasoline that works at the molecular level to help your engine run more smoothly by helping remove deposits and cleaning up intake valves. so when you fill up at an exxon or mobil station, you can rest assured we help your engine run more smoothly while leaving behind cleaner emissions. it's how we make gasoline work harder for you. exxon and mobil.

>> read it and wow, a 15 year fixed mortgage rate at 3 1/2%. it's never been lower. why isn't housing activity any activity moving higher? uber realtor says that most folks are uber bummed. what is going on? when i read that figure, i had to do a double take, but no one is taking it up. >> well, there's no confidence, our confidence level is the lowest since jimmy carter and we all remember that.

>> neil: are they really? >> yeah. nobody is happy. everyone is frozen. they're hoarding cash, whether it's businesses hoarding cash or individuals hoarding cash and they're really thinking way too much about everything. should i buy that shirt, go to that restaurant. forget about should i buy a house? the big ticket, you're stuck with it ten years item. it's overthink because of a lack of confidence, they're all frozen. >> well, i do see with the crowd you hang out with, i look at them, but the crowd you hang out with, they have a lot of money. and they can blow a lot of money. but they're not so predisposed. why not? >> go engi-- >> again relates back to, the government throwing incentives here and there, 8,000 home buying credit. >> neil: that doesn't make a difference? >> no, none of that makes any

difference to anyone. that's the problem. no agenda to fix anything. >> neil: what do you think would? >> what would fix things? i think if somebody had a plan, not a one year plan, a ten year plan that somebody with bank on, that somebody can plan around that businesses can start hiring because they know the environment they're hiring into. not that they don't know what's going to happen. is it going to be health care, isn't it going to be health care? >> and i think that people respond to something bold. and it could even be wrong bold, but anything bold and there's nothing bold. >> there's nothing bold or confidence inspiring. i mean, nobody's standing there leading us and saying, okay, this is what we're going to do. we're going to get together. i'm going to lead, we're going to do this and we're going to deploy the forces to help everyone. >> not a home buyer tax credit. >> all right, so if you were to sort of handicap home prices, slow mortgage activity we've been seeing for years, how much longer?

>> how much longer will we stay in the abyss? >> yes. >> neil: you brought the show title in, i like that. >> i can see us staying here for five years and maybe, maybe even ten. you know. >> wow. >> in pockets that aren't resistent such as silicon valley, new york, i mean, washington if they're still hiring and these little areas, you know, it's not good. no. >> son of abyss. okay. and thank you very very much. well, remember this guy in the fog, remember that, 30 years later, how he can get this economy out of the fog.

>> on the brink, answers to

the abyss. the straw poll voting has now officially begun or seconds away from the beginning. this is of a primer for who will be en route to becoming the republican nominee for president of the united states. it is a place setter and one place setting missing, rick perry. two hourings away from getting in . we'll see how that goes. european bankers supposedly 20 hours at most from finding a way out. if you are wondering about it we are all over it. republicans, criss crossing iowa and this is indeed the last straw. poll buster rick perry in south carolina to announce and game on . european bank regulator frantic behind the scenes talk as we speak. to get a rescue fund ready for