louder than words. >> is president obama getting a little sensitive? or did republican presidential candidate rick perry cross the line with his tough talk? dick morris will analyze. >> jobs must be our number one focus in 2010. >> making sure jobs are available is the first thing i think about when i wake up in the morning. >> after lots of talking, the president will lay out his jobs vision for the country but not until september. after he returns from business posh martha vineyard vacation. >> you tell us you are ready for us to have this conversation. we're ready to have the conversation. the congressional black caucus [inaudible] >> and african-americans are among the hardest hit by the obama economy. and some are frustrated. will they leave him in 2012? >> caution, you are about to enter the no spin zone, the factor begins right now.

captions by closed captioning services >> laura: hi, everyone, i'm laura ingraham in tonight for bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us. let's get right to our top story. the presidential race gets personal between president obama and texas governor rick perry. the governor has come out of the gate with some harsh words for the obama administration, saying that the men and women in the military want a commander and chief who has worn the uniform. mr. perry by the way served in the air force. the president took the opportunity to lecture governor perry yesterday. >> mr. perry just got in the presidential race. i think that everybody who runs for president it probably takes them a little bit of time before they start realizing that this isn't like running for governor or running for senator or running for congress. got to be a little more careful about what you say. but i will cut him some slack. he has only been at it for a few

days now. >> laura: here is how governor perry respond today. dollars. >> yesterday, the president said i needed to watch what i say. i just want to respond back, if i may, mr. president, actions speak louder than words. my actions as governor are helping to create jobs in this country. the president's actions are killing jobs in this country. it's time to get america working again. >> laura: joining us now from stanford, connecticut with analysis the purveyor of dick morris.com. mr. morris. dick, i'm watching this whole thing unfold. i saw that little smile can you recall on the -- curl on the edges of governor perry's mouth. i teed this up. the president hit it, and i love this moment. to me, he seemed like he was

having fun. >> his goal has to be to get a rise out of obama and obama certainly helped his candidacy by attacking him. as you watch obama you wonder if he isn't more afraid of romney than anybody else -- let me on the substance say i agree with governor perry. the idea that because most of his comment was the calling of bernanke treasonous for money supply if he does it gone. i don't think it's treasonous but it's horrific. $1 trillion sitting unused in banks. 800 trillion sitting unused in corporations. people have paid down the debts by 400 billion. nobody is spending any money. nobody is investing. nobody is lending. printing another trillion isn't going to do a single thing except gee base the currency. >> laura: people like john and the "new york post" and karl rove and a few others have said

look, we love the passion, but for governor perry to say traitor or treasonous ben bernanke shows is he a newbie in the campaign trail. well, in texas it could get ugly if someone did what they are doing over at the federal reserve. doesn't that play into the stereotype that maybe at some point he wants to get away from, the kind of texas swagger thing. >> sure. that's why obama called him out on the comment. but, it's about time somebody raised the roof over the federal reserve board tripping fling the money supply for no impact. >> laura: you can do that with a substance, can't you, dick? hit him on the substance. he is winning on the substance. >> i think so. look, perry san important new phenomenon in this race. i think he is very good. video on my site coming out tomorrow analyzing his candidacy. my worry about perry, tactically

is that he might finish third in iowa behind bachmann and romney. and he might finish third in new hampshire behind romney and bachmann. and at that point if he wins south carolina, he is just a regional candidate. the problem is that he may be the second best businessman in the race. and the second best tea party activist in the race. but not the first best of anything. that's the problem he has got. >> laura: it's going to be a fight, is it not, dick, between bachmann and perry for the evangelical social conservative. those two are duking it out with each other not so much romney now. >> no. but it will also be a food fight between romney and perry for the growth businessman, economic growth vote. and the establishment republican vote. the republican voters say hey bachmann can't win. let's go with the mainstream candidate either perry or romney. perry challenges both romney and bachmann. the problem is he might lose both challenges.

>> laura: all i know, dick, he gets into the race and is he shaking it up, right? >> is he number one in the polls. >> laura: rasmussen blew everybody away. comes in and he is up 29%. that's a momentary snapshot and that can change. look at the numbers. 29%. romney down at 18%. not sure. 16%. and bachmann down at 13%. ron paul 9%. >> with you there is a point that emerged from this iowa tour that i found fascinating. this was the first time we heard barack obama's campaign speech it was pathetic. i have a video on sigh site called back news barack. bad luck barack. on the campaign tour. he said we have had bad luck in the last six months. well, we haven't gotten the -- solved the economy but we reversed the recession. we stopped the depression and the economy is moving again. it's better than it was when i took office. is there anybody in america that believes that? then he also said we didn't get the public option but we did go

very far toward universal health coverage. it's going to be thrown out by the courts in a few months and it was thrown out by democratic judge in the circuit. this guy has really nothing to say that he has done. >> laura: no, dick. he did say something. i are being so unfair. i'm sticking up for the president. because today he said we have all this innovation like atm machines that's taking away jobs. now it's innovation's fault that we have so few jobs. i have to ask you about paul ryan. everybody is buzzing about the republican from wisconsin. budget guy comes out with bold plan earlier this year enough to we found out from steven hayes did some reporting on this that it's jeb push in part and mitch daniels from indiana, you know, obviously bush friend and former bush administration bucket guy himself really behind and encouraging the paul ryan run at this late date. what do you make of a bush pushing paul ryan at this point in this race? >> yeah, well, it's surprising

that is he not pushing perry because they are soul mates from texas. there may be some concern there. but i spoke to ryan three or four times about running for president. and his approach has always been, look, i have got a family. i have got kids. that's my priority. i'm simply not getting into the race. after he gave his response to obama's speech, the state of the union, i called him and i said that was answer ed -- and said that was incredibly good speech. he wrote me back sarcastically thanks but no thanks. i have a hard time believing paul ryan getting. in the problem is if he gets in and nominee medicare is the only issue you will hear about. >> laura: that's for sure. a lot has changed since the state of the union. we will follow it dick thanks a lot as always. >> thank you. >> laura: directly ahead. karl rove takes a shot at perry. is the bush administration trying to undermine a perry candidacy? james rosen has the scoop. later, president obama promises to reveal his jobs plan.

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>> laura: in the impact segment tonight, as we just mentioned, governor rick perry under fire from president obama and his supporters but some people are speculating that there may be some tension between mr. perry and former president george w.

bush. i know from the perspective from the former president that he has a cordial personal friendship two decades with the governor. i think that's true for the governor, too. why he falls in this pattern of sounding like he is being dismissive of the former president is not smart politics. >> sounds like he has been ungrateful to the bushes. >> well, you know, it sounds like that and, yet, you know, bush moved heaven and earth he likes bic perry. i talk it up to he is on the stage for the first time. >> laura: are bush loyalists trying to sabotage a perry candidacy? joining us now from d.c. with the inside story. james rosen, fox news chief washington correspondent. -- >> the bushes versus perry, the old next versus the slightly newer texas. is there anything here? i was watching that karl rove interview. it seemed to be that he was pretty preteshed over the fact

that perry wanted to distance himself from george w. bush because the comparisons are coming pretty quickly on the campaign trail. what's going on here. >> right it was governor perry's answer, laura, to our question posed by our own carl cameron this week in des moines that riled loyalists. asked about these similarities between himself and the last texas governor with presidential ambitions and governor perry said in essence i'm paraphrasing that we're not all carbon copies down in texas. one way easily distinguish between us he went to yale and i went to texas a&m. country now as a whole being exposed to rick perry on the national stage first time is catching on to what people in texas have known for some time. this is the somewhat tangled relationship between the two men, between governor perry and the whole bush family and bush machine if you is equal parts tension and cooperation. dates back to first run alongside each other in the

gubernatorial ticket in 1998. by that time then governor bush was a shoe-in for re-election and already eyeing the white house bid in 2000. rick perry had been enticed by the bush machine to switch from the democratic party to the republican party. he had a much tougher race for lt. governor. governor bush at that time wanted to expand his appeal to include hispanics, then rick perry though was then running for lt. governor wasn't too thrilled about trying to entice large numbers of hispanics who typically vote democratic to vote in that election. there was tension right at the start. >> laura: i understand, james, also, i don't know if you have any insight into this, but i understand that when perry was governor early on in his first term a top operative of george w. bush's would habitually call and sort of offer advice to governor perry. you might want to think about doing this or that. and then perry at some point got frustrated and said, look, basically sending a message back to george w. bush he wants -- if he wants to be the governor, can he quit what he is doing and run

against me, something like that. and kind of abrupt is i end the conversation. he was tired of being dictated to. washington lore say that happened and perry got frustrated. fences have been mended or not. >> not entirely mended. i can confirm that there is some sentiment on the part of governor perry and his tight circle that the bush family over the years has tended somehow my words, not theirs, to treat governor perry like the help. in essence feeling that perhaps they installed him there. governor perry feels that he is the real deal. he milked cows until he was 13 years old. he came up from his own boot straps. weighs not given a silver spoon. and he is real texas. >> laura: is that why he mentioned yale there james at all? >> yeah. >> laura: it's almost like is he saying implicitly there. maybe this is what karl rove was getting to. bush is the elite he is the real

texan. i didn't grow up in maine or connecticut or private schools. >> that's right. what this speaks to is where you have the bush family representing the g.o.p. establishment and governor perry representing the sort of evangelical and tea party crowds that are more asen can't these days and have a greater, perhaps a greater grip on the republican party. more recently in 2007, governor perry was caught on videotape criticizing george w. bush's record in texas saying he was never ever a fiscal conservative. last year, the entire bush machine including george herbert walker bush and karl rove went to bat for senator kay bailey hutchinson for her failed g.o.p. primary bid against rick perry. >> laura: they were against him and for kay lay -- bayly. >> laura: you pick sides and do what you do. you can't be surprised if perry is annoyed by that or frankly if bush is annoyed bush is criticizing him. now we find out that jeb bush is

very encouraging to someone like a paul ryan, that paul ryan should get into the race. jeb bush was thinking 2016 according to some sources. now jeb bush encouraging ryan according to steve hayes at the "weekly standard" fox news contributor. that also adds a level of intrigue into this. >> yeah. if those reports are true, laura, it would spell a kind of a death nail death nell. whatever his intentions with the karl roves and the tony frattos and tony wieners. perry wants to be able to tap into the bush donor network. >> laura: money. >> if is he urging other people to run it could mean that perry will have a tough time accessing that money. >> laura: that money needs to be shaken down from the trees. thanks a lot for the reporting. >> thank you, laura. >> laura: when we come back, president obama promises to lay out his jobs plan right after a little vacation in martha's vineyard. some powerful black democrats

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>> laura: factor follow up segment tonight, president obama is about to head off to a lavish vacation up in martha's vin vineyard beautiful place while americans are desperate for work. president obama has announced he is going to reveal his comprehensive jobs plan in september. tom vilsack the agriculture secretary gave a preview of the kind of policies we might expect. >> when you talk about the snap program or the food stamp program. you have to recognize that it's also an economic stimulus. >> laura: food stamps are an economic stimulus. you may remember that jobs is something that the president has been thinking about for quite

some time. >> the question is how are we going to make sure that people are getting back to work? jobs must be our number one focus in 2010. >> as president, that's my commitment to you. to do everything i can to make sure our economy is growing, creating jobs, and strengthening our middle class. >> making sure jobs are available is the first thing i think about when i wake up in the morning and last thing i think about when i go to bed each night. >> not a day goes by that i'm not focused on your jobs. >> i will continue also to fight for what the personal people care most about. new jobs, higher wages, and faster economic growth. >> laura: but, perhaps americans aren't buying the president's job talk here because according to a brand new gallup poll 71% disapprove of his handling of the economy. about 26% do approve. now, with us now is christopher hahn a democratic strategist and former aid to new york senator chuck schumer.

i'm trying to put myself in your position here. i'm trying to channel i'm a democrat, i'm a democrat. i'm seeing this thing unfold with the bus tour and announcing the plan. would you advise president obama on a bus tour during a campaign season to announce that he is going to announce a jobs plan four weeks from now after labor day vacation and martha's vineyard. >> politicians are marketers never roll out a new product in the summer. george bush said that i think we can wait for september for this congress to reject what the president is going to propose. they will reject it they don't have ideology they have theology. you can't raise taxes ever and you can't spend new federal dollars ever. the only way to create jobs in this country is really invest in infrastructure. if you talk to mainstream morks like chairman micah who sits on the transportation committee. >> laura: infrastructure spending. >> pass a surface transportation

bill. let's spend a lot of money on it because every billion you spend on it creates 30,000 jobs. this congress isn't going to let him do it. they could do it in november. >> laura: that's an interesting pivot to congress but i asked you a question about the president. you saw man teenage. >> everything montage. >> he has been saying i'm not going to rest until every idol american has a job. we have been hearing that for quite some time. that's fine. what's actually happened is we haven't grown jobs and own economic advisors say there is a lot of pain to come because we are not growing jobs fast enough. as a democrat are you satisfied with announcing that you are going to announce a plan in september? if i'm you, i'm sitting there going, why the heck didn't you come out with something that was comprehensive before? >> he had the stimulus. i think it was too small. >> laura: we didn't spend enough. >> no. it should have been 3 trillion. tax cuts and should have been nonexistent. we should have spent it all on

infrastructure, roads, bridges. highways. send people to mars. build stuff. >> laura: that's short-term government spending for the most part. bridges and roads, yes we need bridges and roads. >> we need to fix what we have. >> laura: we also need american companies. we need businesses coming here to build stuff. >> who builds the bridges and roads? >> laura: well, actually china has just gotten two of the top contracts in new york. i believe the bridge and another big construction project. china is coming in to get. >> tap ha not been settled yet. they are competing it. >> laura: they are coming here. >> wind of having to hire americans to do the work. >> laura: is it a smart campaign strategy, maybe? but to announce that you are going to announce a plan i think if george bush had done that, you would probably be ridiculing him, wouldn't you? it sounds goofy. >> that could would be my job just as it's your job to -- >> laura: i'm just asking. >> he should be rolling out plans not announcing. if i were advising him i would

tell him actions speak louder than words. that said, it doesn't matter when he rolls it out. it doesn't matter what it is. it could be candy for everybody on christmas. let's name every airport ronald reagan. republicans in congress will say no to it. >> laura: i think they might find some things they agree on. probably be payroll tax issues they will agree on. >> they are out there not agreeing on that either. >> laura: we will see. probably room for progress. what about i have vilsack comment. he touts the increase in people enrolled in food stamps as in part an economic stimulus. would you have said that? >> i was for -- long island. there is economic evidence to show for every dollar you spend on food stamps $1.65 goes back into the economy. >> laura: bumper sticker reelect president obama more food stamps for everyone. >> when people are out of work and economy is not free they have got to eat. when you give them food stamps

they buy food with it that employs people. >> laura: buy food and probably more food if they were actually working would they not. >> should be focused like a laser can't discount these jobs. >> laura: objective. you are a democrat. you want him to be successful. we all want the country to do well what would you give him. >> a b. he has inherited a very difficult situation. the reason why i take points off of him because i think he has given in too much to the republicans. >> laura: needs to fight showing some anger now. >> these guys do not want to negotiate he has got to stop trying to. put things out there and let they reject it. >> laura: find the anger. plenty more ahead as the factor moves along this evening. you will not believe what new york city is getting ready to force children to learn about sex ed. don't miss this shocking report.

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>> laura: unresolved problem segment tonight, should government bureaucrats should be able to force your kids to take sex education? mayor michael bloomberg says yes. kids as young as 11 take a semester of sex ed. we are not talking about kissing and holding hands. graphic stuff that would make most adults uncomfortable. some new yorkers are not happy about this. >> these critic la will leave students confused. misinformed and vulnerable. >> parents should be the primary educators of their children when it comes to matters regarding sexual activity. >> we do our young people a disservice when we teach them how to reduce their risk when we should be teaching them how to avoid them. >> laura: with us is a child psychologist and author of the book "you are teaching my child what?" a professor at the new york university school of medicine. okay, let's talk about this. for about 20 years new york has been pretty active, right, in sex education, public schools. i think they have distributed

condoms to though students who want them and still we see a lot of std's and we see extremely high number of abortions in new york city. let's start with you dr. grossman. what's wrong with teaching sex education? >> laura, i reviewed the kuric la that are now mandated for the public schools of new york city. i read every page, okay? and i concluded that although they are not without restraints i'm not here so say they are all bad. they are not. there are serious flaws. parents who think that their children are going to receive a firm no nonsense delay sex until you are older message are in for a surprise. these curriculum have loads of green lights for sex.

>> laura: earlier you have sexual intercourse for kids this age, 11, 10 years old the hardered your life will end up being. tell us about it. >> this is not a debate whether we are promoting sex in teenagers but rather whether we are promoting sex education which is critically important. abstinence program $1.5 billion on this. >> laura: in new york. >> in the united states federal and state. 750,000 unwanted pregnancies, std's going through the roof in women. >> laura: we have had decades of sex education. told that condom distribution and sex said in new york. again they have had sex ed in new york. this is taking it a step further. man dating a curriula plult points graphic stuff at young age. >> it does give the parents to opt out. >> laura: birth control part only. >> that's really important. reality is the personal academy of pediatrics many different

groups that have looked at the abstinence only programs realize it has not been as effective as they would have liked it to have been. >> laura: dr. grossman, isn't it true however, the young kids don't have the wiring yet town pack this information. this is fairly sophisticated information for kids, i guess, in june your high and as young as 11 are going to start hearing this message. if i'm a parent, let me tell you. this if i'm a parent and they are trying to teach this. i prefer if i do this at home. you have a will the of other subjects to cover. this is what i am going to cover. mayor bloomberg says parents aren't doing the job. what's your response. >> these programs are going to do exactly what parents want which is to shine a big red light on teen sexuality. but they don't do that. i'm going to give you an example. i would like actually parents at home to log on to a site that's recommended for middle school students called go ask alice.com, please.

if you get anything out of this talk tonight, i want people to log on there. that web site provides not only information about activities that parents don't want their kids to participate in but they don't even want their kids to know about these things. yet, this is the site that new york city is going to be sending kids to. >> laura: planned parenthood is advocating we should say up front they are very much in favor of this curriculum. i would ask you, dr. lamp, do we know whether the abortion rate has been decreased the after pill, so forth has decreased with all the sex education that kids have gotten because what i'm read something that abortion rates, oral contraceptives. the after pill is extremely high number. >> the pregnancy rate has declined. >> laura: that doesn't take into account the abortion rate, does it not. >> no. but it has declined by about 75%. >> laura: that's because babies

are being flushed away. >> agree it's probably due to contraception. >> this applies to all kids. many of the students in new york and lower socioeconomic groups are not lucky enough to have parents though are highly educated, highly motivated and highly communicative about sexual education. these kids are learning it from other 11-year-olds. i don't think that's a good idea. >> laura: how effective is condom use among kids? i have read studies where it's not very effective. we're almost out of time. that's also a problem here. >> i want to respond, this is the whole nanny state over again. that parents aren't doing a good job and, therefore, we're going to do a better job than they are. no. parents do not what's best for their kids. >> laura: we're going to be tracking this dr. lamb, dr. grossman thank you very much. very powerful african-american democrats are not happy with president obama. >> people are hurting. the unemployment is unconscionable. we don't know what the strategy is. >> laura: of the political implications of this frustration

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>> laura: thanks for staying in with us. i'm laura ingraham in for bill o'reilly. the economy is hurting all americans. but many of the hardest hit are in the african-american community. the black unemployment rate is at about 16% which is a lot higher than the overall unemployment rate which is at about 9% now. some powerful democrats are not happy with the president's treatment of the black community. starting with congresswoman maxine watters. >> the congressional black caucus left the president too. we are supportive of the president but we [inaudible] getting tired of it. and so what we want to do is we want to give the president every opportunity. >> how long? >> to show a what is he do and

what is he prepared to lead on. we want to give every opportunity. our people are hurting. >> yes. >> the unemployment is unconscionable. we don't know what the strategy is we don't know why when is he on this trip is he not in any black communities. we don't know that all we know is we are politicians. we are elected officials. we are trying to do the right thing and best thing. when you tell us it is time to let go. >> laura: i like all the shout backs that was classic. joining us now from south florida republican congressman al lep west who is a member of the congressional black caucus. now, congressman west, i'm watching this unfold and thinking to myself, well, maxine waters is angry because black unemployment and black foreclosure rates, we're angry about all of this stuff what's

going on here with the black story line that black african-americans are unhappy with president obama. >> the laughable policy is that the big black bus is not going in the black community. unemployment in the black community 16.3% in july and it dropped down to 15.9% for the month of august, that's not in the right direction. 21st century plantation going out there. democratic party has taken the black vote for granted. and you have established certain black leaders are nothing more than the overseers of that plantation. now the people on the plantation are upset because they have been disregarded, disrespected and their concerns are not cared about. i'm here as the modern day harriett tubman who lead people on the underground railroad away from that plantation into a sense of sensibility. >> laura: maxine waters is the

plantation boss at this point absolutely. whited leaders are turned over perceived leaders like a jessie jackson, al sharpton bar are bar barbara lee. pacify and keep the black community behind us regardless of the failures of our social ware fair policies. look at the devastation in the black communities. look what's happened in the inner cities of chicago and detroit. look toe riots. >> laura: the flash mobs? where is sharpton and jesse jackson barbara lee and maxine waters on the flash mobs? where are they on those. >> that's my point. that's the absence of this quote, unquote leadership in the black community which, as i say are nothing more than overseers of this 21st century plantation. the republican party has not done very well in reach out.

that's where we have opportunity to show the corner stone and bedrock of the. individual responsibility and accountability. faith and family. hard work ethic. these are the things to reexcept and get a thriving economic community within our inner cities. >> laura: today the president recontinued the bus tour i guess it's mercifully coming to an end. he is continuing the bus tour. he talked about how innovation also lead to fewer jobs. computerized you don't need people because you have great technology. atm machines where you used have to bank tellers. i'm thinking to myself now innovation is to blame for the loss of jobs republicans tea party mean congress, innovation is now the problem. >> yeah. you are absolutely right. don't forget the air of spring and the cut of the flow of oil or the weather event and the

tsunami and earthquake that occurred in japan. look, this president his excuse game. the continual whine something not becomes of the leader of the free world leader of the united states of america and greatest nation the world has ever known. think about investment ingeneral night and innovation free market principles that's what made america what it is in 135 years. the ability to advance through technology and build this great nation. if this president does not understand that then we are never going to turn around the -- >> laura: he says he has a plan. >> i have been hearing that a lot. >> laura: coming out at some point in september and the details are going to be coming out then. >> after vacation. he deserves a vacation after all this work. >> i'm an old soldier who spent 22 years in the military. as i said to many people here in the district i have been talking to them. this is deaf con 1. that means all leaves passes

counsel. all hands on deck. all in washington, d.c. hammering out how we can get this country back on the right footing. our economy and about our long-term sustainable job growth. >> laura: should you all be coming back to washington. >> i have been saying that. yeah. absolutely. i have been saying that since we had the s&p downgrade. laura right now we have 12 appropriations house that have to be passed out of the house and the senate. only done six in the house. senate only taken up one. sitting around saying we are on constituent work periods. the constituents want us to be working up there in washington, d.c. so that maybe fiscal year 2012 we don't have the hear the words continuing resolution and omnibus again. >> laura: have you told john boehner you all should be back at work. >> i sent an email to the majority leader and the majority whip about that. >> laura: what was the response? >> haven't heard anything. >> laura: oh. okay. and what are you going to do about that 13% congressional approval rating?

that's pretty low too, congressman. >> well, i have got to tell you, that's part and parcel of what the american people sees a, you know, they don't see any leadership coming washington, d.c. so all i can do is try to stand and rectify the situation from my little fox hole. >> laura: all right, congressman allen west, great to see you. thanks so much. coming up, more violent crimes against americans linked to the justice department's gun running operation with mexican drug lords. and details coming in just a moment. that works at the molecular level to help your engine run more smoothly by helping remove deposits and cleaning up intake valves. so when you fill up at an exxon or mobil station, you can rest assured we help your engine run more smoothly while leaving behind cleaner emissions. it's how we make gasoline work harder for you. exxon and mobil.

>> laura: in the back of the book segment tent, more violent crimes have been linked to operation fast and furious. that was that botched sting where the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms sold millions of weapons to violent mexico call drug cartels and lost track of them. almost impossible to get

straight earns from eric holder's justice department on this matter. so far border patrol agent brian terry was killed last year by weapons that were part of that operation. and it's now being reported that at least 11 more violent crimes are associated with this scheme. joining us now from austin, texas, republican senator john cornyn who is investigating the situation. senator cornyn, a couple of people have been on this issue for a long time, sharyl attkinson over at cbs news has been on this and frankly, the more i find out about it, the more outraged i am. we saw this operation. we were directing this from the justice department and now we find out that these guns were at the scenes of 11 more crimes and this time in the united states. >> well, eric holder, the attorney general either knew or he should have known this operation that started out of the field office in phoenix. but i learned recently as a result of the investigation of senator chuck grassley and congressman darrell issa that it had spread to houston, texas

where straw purchases were being made. the gun shop owner called atf and said hey we think there something wrong here. no, go ahead and sell them the guns and they ended up, of course, in the hands of the cartel. this is a bone-headed idea from the very beginning. we need to know who is responsible. now it looks like, according to the "l.a. times," that three of the people involved in this are being promoted. you know, one of the things i think that drives people crazy about washington, d.c. is a lack of accountability and the arrogance. and we need more accountability and less arrogance coming out of the justice department. that goes all the way to the top. >> laura: those are the three atf officials we just showed on screen who are getting promotions mcmahon and newell and voth. these three guys are getting promoted. meanwhile, eric holder has been denying all along that he directed this operation and that he had intimate knowledge of the details of this. and president obama himself has

been asked about this. i believe it was a town hall event some months back and also similarly said this is not something that we would be in favor of. this was an ongoing operation. what you can tell us now, senator, the people of this country who are seeing violent crime, especially in the ineller cities raging, these drug cartels reaching further and further into the united states? will you get to the bottom of who directed this operation and authorized these guns going back over the border of mexico or losing track of them all together? >> well, as you pointed out, a u.s. law enforcement official was killed in december of 2010. yet, eric holder, the attorney general of the united states, didn't admit to knowing anything about this project that went awry. this crazy project that went awry until april. but the question is not just did eric holder know it but did his boss know it? and, frankly, there needs to be some heads rolling here in terms of accountability and responsibility.

we are going to keep pursuing this thing. i'm going to keep working with congressman issa and senator grassley until we get to the bottom of this. eric holder needs to come clean. he needs to be held accountability. the people need to be held accountable. >> laura: someone directed this operation. surely with congressional oversight we can find out who was the main person who had to check off and say okay this is all right. somebody was answering the phone at justice at atf when that gun store owner was doing the right thing by the way. they love to vilify the gun store owners. these gun store owners in arizona and as you pointed out in texas were actually calling saying wait a second, what's going on here? they said go ahead and let the purchases go forth. that's fine if you are tracking these people. they said no problem letting them go across the border. we need the namesment and if eric holder won't get us the names and does eric holder deserve to remain in the position of attorney general of the united states? >> well, i think it goes all the way to the top. and we need the answers from eric holder. but it's just implausible.

think about this, that a u.s. law enforcement official killed in december of 2010, eric holder said he didn't know about this fast and furious program until april of this year. it's un -- incredible, really. i think he did know about it. they have been blocking congressional investigations into this to find out who knew about it. >> laura: senator, make it very clear, you are saying tonight that eric holder is not telling the truth on this issue? >> i'm saying that it's impossible for me to believe that with a u.s. law enforcement official killed as a result of this fast and furious program run awry on december 10 that eric holder didn't know about it until april of 2011. i just don't believe that. >> laura: all right. senator, we appreciate it. we are going to stay on this issue. pinheads and patriots coming up tonight featuring congressman woman michele bachmann and elvis? right back with p and p.

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>> laura: finally, pinheads and patriots. as many of you know, yesterday was the 34th anniversary of elvis' death. he died in 1977 at age 42. here's how michelle bachmann marked the occasion. >> before we get started let's all say happy birthday to elvis presley today. happy birthday! we paid you a little bit of promised land when we pulled up. you can't do better than elvis presley. >> laura: honoring elvis is

patriotic. but confusing his death with his birthday may be a little pinheaded? wail slip up from time to time, including yours truly. she meant no disrupt and corrected herself later, come on. >> check out o'reilly and dennis miller at the kickoff of their tour on long island this weekend. while you are at it, consider picking up my new book, five weeks on "the new york times" best seller list. available at lauraingraham.com. get it at bookstores everywhere. thanks for watching tonight. i'm laura ingraham in for bill o'reilly. remember, the spin stops here, because we're looking out for because we're looking out for you. closed captioned by closed captioning services, inc.