>> brian: tomorrow we're going to be joined by frank luntz, laura ingraham, and we might be talking about moammar gadhafi's former days in power. >> steve: that's right. we don't know where he is. maybe that situation will clarify itself. in our after the show show, we'll continue the conversation with cowboy libertarian. >> brian: you can catch me on radio from 9:00 o'clock to noon. see you. >> steve: so long, everybody. see you tomorrow. martha: there is breaking news at this hour, brand new developments in the very tenuous situation on the ground in libya, gunfire and celebrations in the capitol at this hour. listen to this: >> rebels take control of tripoli, the state department announcing this morning they believe it is only a matter of time now before moammar qaddafi loses his grip on power. thousands of people as you can see in these videos, in

green square, that's the symbolic part of moammar qaddafi's regime, rebels saying they've captured reports of one, sometimes two, reports of capturing qaddafi's sons and they're now in sight of overtaking the regime and top ling the four two-year dictator. so far, no sign of him, though, at this hour. good morning, everybody, i'm martha maccallum on this very busy day in "america's newsroom". gregg: i'm gregg jarrett in for bill hemmer. an apparent victory for the rebel fighters, president obama saying in a statement sunday qaddafi's time is gefer, but guess what -- time is over, but guess what, he may not agree with that. take a listen: >> everyone should go out, i am with you in tripoli, no going back, we should go to the end of the earth that we want to liberate from the

occupier. don't allow the occupier to future their -- put their foot in our land. i am with you in this battle as i always promised. we will never surrender. martha: wendell goler live at the state department, we'll go to him in a moment but first to dominic di-natale. what's the latest on the ground in tripoli? >> reporter: i understand there is heavy fighting report ud outside the compound which is qaddafi's strong hold. it's uncertain whether he's inside there. the telephone calls in the past 24 hours, it is alleged he is inside the city but there are rumors he has fled to algeria. none of that is confirmed at this time. there's also heavy fighting outside the capitol of tripoli, appeal to go both sides to stop the attacks, apparently both rebels and loyallests to the regime are trying to finish off the wounded they didn't manage

to kill in the clash, hospitals are struggling to cope with the sheer numbers of casualties there. it's a last ditch effort by the government forces to cling on to power. there are tanks in positions across the city, there is firing apparently on citizens but rebels confirm 95 percent of the city seems to be cornering those loyalists' positions. of course, the rebels overran one of the main arsenals yesterday and managed to seize qaddafi's weapons outside the capitol, that means the government forces will have less and less ammunition with which to respond and with which to defend themselves. it appears to be a matter of time before really the forces have to give up, martha. martha: we've heard of defections at the highest levels of the government. several of them, going into tunisia, according to these reports, and at least one of qaddafi's sons, i don't know if you can undate us on the

other two sons, dominic, and their whereabouts, and also on qaddafi, any information on where he may be at this hour. >> absolutely, he seems to have vanished completely off the map. there were rumors he had been killed but to be quite honest if that had happened we most certainly would have known about that. that's too big a news not to really get out and to be confirmed to be quite honest. two sons arrested on sunday, in charge of the campaign against the rebels, he was arrested, the brother, mohammed kaseef was also arrested. he was arrested while on air with the al arabia news station, they are preparing him to face the international tribunal there, against humanity and human rights as well. the third son, we're not entirely sure of his location, whether he's hiding out with his father somewhere but until qaddafi

is captured or killed, he's still hanging on. martha: what an amazing sight that will be to see them on trial at the hague, two of the sons and perhaps moammar qaddafi will be by their side as well. we wait for news on that, dominic di-natale, thank you very much. gregg: as rebels inch closer to qaddafi the libyan decktateor supporters refusing to give up the fight. take a look at this. >> we will fight. we have whole cities on our side. they are coming enmasse to protect tripoli. >> they are not rushed. we are doing very good job now. >> nato forces vowing to continue their combat air patrols until all proqaddafi forces finally sur ebbedder, nato is also calling for qaddafi to step down immediately in order to save lives. martha: pro qaddafi supporters appearing on the air waves, the anchor for al

aribiya, watch, she has promised to defend her tv station from rebel attacks. this was broadcast as the rebels were advancing on tripoli. she said she was willing to become a martyr to save her colleagues and brandished a gun while she was on the set all of them, armed or unarmed will be willing to die defending the state tv-owned channel. this is a fascinating story, it was broadcast from the basement of a building they thought they would be safe in and she was brandishing a gun while on air. now the station is off the air in the last few hours. gregg: something you don'tie very often, an anchor with a weapon. let's take a look at how the violence start uprising -- in libya, the uprising began # months ago, there have been 7400 air strikes since then, estimated to cost the u.s.a. more than a billion dollars. right now, there is no accurate death toll, and

more than 1 million people have left the country. martha. martha: well, throughout the fighting, qaddafi has remained defiant, you saw quote from him moments ago, much as he really has done since he took power in libya. now at the age of 69 years old, colonel qaddafi is the longest serving leader in africa in the arab world, he seized power in a bloodless coup in september 1969, he was only 27 years old at the time, he maintained that power, he's just shy of his 42nd year, which would be the beginning of september. that would mark that anniversary, remains to be seen at this point whether he will make it there. it doesn't look that way right now but he has eluded these kind of situations in the past. gregg: saddam escaped for weeks and weeks, found in a rat hole. qaddafi is also notorious for his involvement in the 1998 pan am lockerbie bomb, the libyan leader has accepted libya's responsibility for the tragedy and paid

compensation to the victims' families, but he hasn't admitted personally to ordering that attack, and the only man convicted for it was released actually by scotland on compassionate grounds because of a can obvious diagnosis that has since been completely refuted. two hundred seventy people were killed that terrible day, 189 of them were americans. coming up in the next hour, we're going to be talking with the brother of one of those victims and get his reaction to this news. and a pentagon spokesperson this morning saying the united states is closely monitoring this developing situation. wendell goler is live at the state department with the very latest. wendell, what are you hearing from washington? >> gregg, more importantly, what we're hearing from martha's vineyard, where the president is, he has been keeping tabs on the situation in libya from his vacation spot there. his deputy national security adviser, john brennan, is there with him and mr. obama was briefed by his national security advisers, senior

national security team, in a telephone conference call late last night. he was scheduled to receive another briefing this morning. even as the president has been under fire for a nato mission that his critics say wasn't proceeding fast enough, his aides have maintained that moammar qaddafi's days are numbered and last night the president released a statement saying in part tripoli is slipping from the grasp of a tyrant, the qaddafi regime is showing signs of collapse, the people of libya showing the personal pursuit of dignity and freedom is stronger than the iron fist of a dictator, the president saying qaddafi needs to recognize his rule has come to an end and that he no longer controls libya. gregg: what about the international reaction to all of these incredible events? what are you learning about that? >> it's been pretty much uniformly in support of the libyan opposition, known as the transnational council and against qaddafi. french president sarkozy today called on forces loyal

to qaddafi to lay down their arms, he pledged france's support for the transnational council. of course the u.s. has also recognized that as the legitimate representativist libyan people. british prime minister david cameron said that qaddafi's regime is falling apart and in full retreat and that qaddafi must stop fighting without conditions. among the major powers, only russia remains opposed to the nato mission. one promising sign to u.s. officials is that the libyan opposition has said it will work with some officials of the qaddafi government, those it says, quote, who are not painted in blood. gregg. gregg: wendell goler at the state department, thanks. martha: there's a lot of impact on the markets, of course, from all of this. oil prices have been slideing this morning as rebels captured libya's capitol, prospects of an end to that civil war has boosted hopes that production from that country might be able to get back into gear sooner than expected so that's had a downward effect on oil prices.

back in february when all of this got started the per barrel price was $85, then in april 1 month after nato stepped in, oil hit its high of $114 a barrel at that point. the latest figures backed down into the neighborhood where it -- where it began at 85.65 per barrel. that's what we're keeping an eye on in light of the developments there. gregg: and of course we're following all of the breaking news out of libya this morning, but there are so many other stories we need to tell you about and we'll do that after the break. in fact, a part of social security, and a big part, close to broke by the u.s. economy is hitting the entitlement very hard, and what can be done to get it done to get it back into the black? >> and she just became a category one hurricane, that's right, cat one, good night irene barreling towards the u.s. coastline the we're going to tell you where it could hit and how soon. martha: she's at it again, days after maxine waters blasted president obama over

his handling of the economy she is now lashing out against the tea party. >> i'm not afraid of the big bad wolf. i'm not afraid of anybody. this is a tough game. you can't be intimidated. you can't be frightened. as far as i'm concerned, the tea party is go straight to hell.

martha: let's get a look at some of the other big stories making headlines right now, we've got hurricane irene bearing down on puerto rico and could it be in florida by the week glend the fox weather center is coming up live on that. a 22-year-old man, this is an awful story, is under arrest in indiana, he fatally stabbed an elderly boy scout leader leading a bunch of scouts on a hiking trail, the witnesses say this attack was unprovoked and that he had attacked his mother nearby earlier that day. and there is a look at the new martin luther king memorial, the statue of the

slain civil rights leader is being unveiled today at the national mall. big moment in the national mall today. all right. gregg, back to you. gregg: let's, martha, talk a little about social security, because it is truly in a crisis mode. there's a new report out showing that laid off workers an baby boomers are flooding the disability part of social security and according to congress at estimates, that fund will run out of cash by 2017. that's just six years from now. applications are up nearly 50 percent over a decade ago. this year, about just over # million people expected to apply for federal disability benefits under social security. steve forbes, chairman and editor in chief of forbes media, joins us. steve, why is this happening? >> well, what's happening is you have a combination of the baby boomers who obviously have more disabilities, you also have a weak economy, people get laid off or injured, so instead of waiting a few years to go to regular social security, they apply

for disability. now, it's not easy to get these benefits. sometimes you have to wait upwards of two years or more. but the backlog is being reduced, more people are getting them, so the system is in crisis. >> gregg: i was reading the comments of a couple of congressmen the other day who said well, what we can do is we can just shift the money from the retirement fund into the disability fund. does that strike you as just kind of sticking a finger in the dike? >> that underlines something that's been ignored is there's no money in the fund. they have $2.6 trillion, but they are in nonmarketable ious from the treasury department so they've got to convert those into marketable bonds and have the treasury raise cash and the sooner they do it, the better. that's why the debt crisis took on urgency because normally you could have used those trust funds to pay

social security benefits for washington dither -- but washington dithers. gregg: what do we do, do we make it harder to qualify or go after those abusing it, there's a lot of fraud and waste? what do we do? >> it's amazing congress is appropriating money to go after those who don't deserve the benefits. you've read estimates of 12-$15 billion over the next few years that could be saved if they had a compliant system already in place and an effective one but overall it so underscores the need for reconstruction, reform of the social security system, from top to bottom. the resources are there certainly to pay the disability side. the real crunch still remains on retirement benefits in the next couple of decades. gregg: have we set up a system that is sort of a reverse incentive? we're providing actually an incentive for people to apply for disability benefits early, perhaps

disingenuously because they're going to make the same amount of money if not more than if they wait. so why not, you're going to make more money if you go now. >> the benefits are there but they're not overly generous. you can get them at an earlier age and that's why you need to streamline the process so those who legitimately do deserve the benefits get them but those gaming the system don't. social security right now does not have the resources or the processes to make an effective timely determination on that. so what they do is they usually reject your application, make you get a lawyer and in two years they'll eventually approve you. not an effective system. gregg: we've got to revamp the whole thing. >> top to bottom. should have been a decoo should have been done a decade ago when this problem was apparent. greg gregg steve forbes, thank you very much. >> good to see you, thank you. martha: a lot to keep our eyes on. we're closely monitoring all of the developments coming out of libya at this hour, the rebels, basically about

95 percent in control of the capitol city, hunting for the leader moammar qaddafi. what happens if he falls, which is certainly looking to be the situation? what comes next for libya? >> gregg: plus, from the battle ground overseas to a violent west coast brawl, have you seen this? this is unbelievable. embarrassing. deplorable. shots fired out on the streets, right outside of a sports arena moments after this fight broke out in the stadium. we're live in the golden state. >> it was pretty scary. that's why we left, me and my friends, because of the fact that we didn't want to okr fact that we didn't want to okr get caught in the parking lot.

gregg: a horrific site during a michigan air show, a routine stunt goes horribly wrong, a wing man trying to transfer from a small plane to a helicopter

loses his footing and falls 200 feet to his death. witnesses say he was trying to get his hand to a strap, the plane suddenly pulled away before he was able to properly secure himself. the man had been performing aerial stunts, we're told, for more than 25 years. martha: all right. let's go back to this international news that is is quickly percolating, conviction quickly unraveling in libya, a defiant syrian president, president assad, says he's not going anywhere. assad dismisses the calls for him to step down. he he insists his military remains in complete control of his country and that it's stepping up its efforts to crush the five month old uprising against his government. leland vitter joins us on this regime and whether or not there's been any impact from the libya situation. leland. >> reporter: certainly, martha, they are looking at this situation that happened in libya, and you can't help

but see things, and if you're bashar assad sitting there, you have to be pretty worried. but let's take a look at what he is doing to try to keep his military in control. it's a two throrchg dollars approach. number one, groups of gunmen are going through the streets of various syrian towns shooting at will to terrorize a number of people in this population. that seems to be a page out of the qaddafi play book. also, there's a u.n. group inside syria going to look at all of these cities where there's been violence to see what happens, and we're hearing reports from a military is involved in a white washing campaign to clean up the damage they did when they shelled these cities. at least 2000 people have been killed inside syria since this uprising began. but on the other side of this, considering now that there is so much international condemnation of syria, there are so many people saying that al assad needs to step down, the country of turkey is now giving organizers a place and a safe haven outside of syria to help continue their

work, martha. martha: wow. that's an interesting doacht. so when he looks at this, assad, and he sees everybody searching everywhere for qaddafi, you have to wonder what's going through his mind in terms of his own personal safety and whether or not he's planning a few exit strategies. >> well, we haven't heard any exit strategies. right now he is defiant, and the narrative is the same as qaddafi's, stay out, we don't want the international community. the one thing about assad that you'll notice is different from qaddafi, he's far more civilized and a little more eloquent as he speaks. take a listen: >> the u.s. has put into power, the syrian people don't take orders from the outside. we need to look to iraq, afghanistan, and libya, to see millions are suffering. to know which president should step down. >> reporter: now, the issue here for assad is the inter naught community, assad has two trump cards, one is the air force which

is much more sophisticated than libans' which he has yet to use against the proters. seems he doesn't want to raise the an it. e like qaddafi. second thing is his strong ally with iran which would certainly make it difficult for any outside military force to intervene in syria, in fact, the united states has taken that option largely off the table. martha: very important differences. thank you very much, leland vitter in jerusalem. gregg: the italian prime minister now telling libyan leader moammar qaddafi to end the, quote, useless resistance and to stop further bloodshed but as the rebels celebrate out on the streets of libya, there is no sign of qaddafi. where he is? are we near the end game?

gregg: back to our top story, after storming the capitol of tripoli and envoy for the libyan rebels saying months ago he has no idea where moar qaddafi is but he will be arrested he vowed and will be brought to justice. you're looking at a brand new scene in tripoli, pentagon officials saying the pressure is mounting on the defiant leader and james rosen is at the pentagon. what are u.s. officials saying? >> reporter: well gregg, right now of course the situation remains very fluid. it is believed that the

transitional national council and libyan rebels now control 90-95 percent of the city square in tripoli and the city itself. of course, nato forces were a big factor in their stunning rapid success, maintaining very close air support and coordination with the rebels as they advanced westward and northward towards tripoli. as for qaddafi himself, intelligence forces tell fox news -- sources tell fox news in fact there is no word he has left libya. of course, his whereabouts are unknown. the british prime minister, david m cameron, just following a meeting of his own national security council issued a statement saying, quote, we have no confirmation of qaddafi's whereabouts but the british have also confirmed the detention and arrest of two of qaddafi's sons. of course any of this can change at any moment, we are cautioned by intelligence sources but as of now there's no evidence that qaddafi, who's not been seen in the last four hours, only heard by audio, has left the

country. gregg: james, what are the top concerns of u.s. military officials going forward? >> reporter: number one, first and foremost, gregg, security in and around tripoli. this is the seat of government such as it was in qaddafi's libya and the very first order of business will be to try to impose some form of law and order in the country. once the celebration stops, they don't want to see this become baghdad a redoux where we see excessive looting and all toward that end, is to establish security over libya's weapons, stockpiles and arsenals, in particular, u.s. officials are concerned that missiles, antiaircraft missiles, of which libya had a sizeable number under qaddafi, could be looted and potentially get into the wrong hands and put to use against a civilian airliner. there is also concern about establishing cohesion amongst the transitional national council and libyan rebels. as you know there's tribal infighting and they don't want to see baghdad redoux.

we've seen how that plays out. gregg: got to secure those weapons. a lot of them. james rosen, thanks. martha: james raises a number of important questions in all of this. what with ce expect from the libyan opposition groups that are likely trying to coalesce and try to figure out how to take power? k.t. mcfarland, national security analyst on the story, she has been all through the weekend of course for us and we thank you for that valuable input. here we are monday morning and you say the next 48 hours are extremely crucial in all of this. why is that? >> act one, topple the dictator, okay? we seem to have done that. act two, can the rebels get it together, watch and see what they do, can they establish security in the next 48 hours, 72 hours, because if they can't, looting starts. it's one thing to have a revolution. it's another thing to turn to the boring task of governing. are they going to spend their time score set ring -- score settling?

for 40 years, qaddafi has murdered friends and families. is all the energy going to be taken up killing the bad guys were making sure the water runs, streets are safe, protect the institutions, get the electricity going? >> martha: certainly the early word is the treatment of the sons have been civilized and that says to me that they want the world -- that's the message they want to send to the world that they're not going to treat these individuals the way they've been treated and their families have been treated and also we've gotten support from sarkozy, saying he wants to meet with the head of the tnc in paris next week, so that also gives them legitimacy, you know, those indications would be somewhat positive, right? >> those are positive. but you have the moving factor in this, where is qaddafi, does he flight or flee, does he do a saddam hussein. everybody in libya has a gun, whether it's the libyan military that seems to have melted away when the rebels got into tripoli. we know the my laishas are armed, the rebels are armed, so does everybody lay down their arms? you don't know. if qaddafi flees, where does

he go to, to the south, does he try to rally the southern desert tribe, which is where he's from, to fight an insurgency? does he flee -- >> martha: it sounds like the prime minister is now -- his own support network has deteriorated to such a degree, do you think he can put together enough people to keep fight something. >> he's got a lot of money to buy insurgents, pay people off, buy fighters from sudan, he has money literally probably under the mattress, we know there have been caches of weapons he's had in various palaces throughout the country. he's perfectly capable of mounting an opposition for a guerilla war. does where -- why does he not free, go to another country? international -- international court has indicted him. he could be tried and executed. martha: which is what they've already said they're going to do with the sons. that's what's out there right now. a quick question on the

leadership in the united states, how we're handling it, because our input and signals we send are so vital right now and france and berlusconi is weighing in today. >> yeah, it's a very narrow line to walk. on the one hand we don't want to crow for victory for fear it's not going to be such a victorious situation, on the other hand we don't want to make it look like it's a nato or american operation. it's got to be a libyan revolution. however, that doesn't mean we step back and do nothing. the example ever present is 1978-1979, carter administration shoved the shah of iran aside and said let the iranians do their own revolution and we know how that turned out. we need to work behind the scene like my boss reagan did, send this engineers, send in -- remember, for 40 years, these people have never governed themselves, they don't know how to do it. martha: it was such a rag tag group in the beginning, the prirk plenty we think -- accomplishment we think says

something for their tenacity. want to be sure. before we go, i want to do a shoutout. the service runs deep in the mcfarland people, lieutenant fiona mcfarland, they were watching us the other day, and if you're there, we thank you for your service and a big shoutout for the people on the u.s.s. blue ridge, for me and for mom! thanks k.t., always good to see you. gregg: we love the whole k.t. max farland family. 270 people killed during the 1998 pan am bombing, 189 were americans. it's been more than 20 years mo maqaddafi has never admitted to ordering that attack. we're going to be talking to the brother of one of those victims and ask him what he thinks should happen to the libyan leader. >> martha: plus democratic congresswoman maxine waters has been speaking out quite forcefully lately. first she lashed out at

president obama, said she was going to unleash on him, now he's turned her fire on the tea party, saying they can go straight to hell.

gregg fox news alert, police announcing another death in the wake of that horrific stage collapse at the indiana state fair back on august 13th. the 24-year-old woman died from her injuries late last night. it is still unclear what exactly caused -- annd you're looking at footage of it -- of the stage to collapse to begin with. we know that strong winds were initially blamed but there is an investigation underway of the wreck yalg itself. martha: congresswoman maxine waters fired up again, this time lashing out at the tea party during a town hall in california. listen for yourselves: >> a lot of people at the congressional level and even

at the precinct level do a lot of talking and a lot of balking, don't do enough voting, don't do enough supporting. now, i'm not afraid of the big bad wolf. i'm not afraid of anybody. this is a tough game. you can't be intimidated. you can't be frightened. as far as i'm concerned, the tea party can go straight to hell. and i intend to help them get there! martha: she's not mincing words! we're joined by bob beckel, he served in the white house, and andrea nantoras, cohost of "the five", every day. what's going on with max anwaters, bob? she's had a busy week. we're going to play what she said last week in a moment, but what do you make of it? >> look, i've used

incendiary language, and i took two back, i don't agree with saying they should go to hell. i think they should go away. look, these people represent everything that we in the liberal side of the political spectrum believe in and if we can't -- forget negotiating with them. i want common ground. i believe in negotiation. you can't negotiate with these people. let's go to war against them and beat them at the ballot box because they are hurting this country. martha: obviously, she fired up that crowd, andrea, according to reports, there are a lot of union folks in the crowd and they loved it, they ate it up, andrea. >> it sound like she's been hanging out with bob a little too long, because bob -- >> you've hung out with me too long! >> i don't know about that, bob, you certainly don't mince words. look, i wonder what happened to the new tone in politics? last week we heard governor rick perry talk about the fed and you had obama lecture him on his harsh language. i wonder if he's going to lecture maxine waters, this

was really unclassy and very embarrassing for a congresswoman to speak like that. it's one thing for pundits to feign outrage but this is a sitting congresswoman, ironically, she's telling them they can go straight to hell? ironically, she might be going straight to jail. she's under a congressional investigation for trying to funnel stimulus money to a bank where her husband owns stock so if i were her, i'd keep a pretty low profile and watch her mouth. >> wait, wait, wait. martha: it's an independent investigation, who knows how long it's going to be. it got pushed past the midterm elections and we've seen no action on this whatsoever. by doing this she puts her face in the news, and lots of people, including me, saying hey what's going on with that investigation, by the way. >> with the investigation, when rick perry calls the head of the federal reserve treasonous, this yoko from texas ought to be careful what he shoots his mouth off

talking about the head of the reserve? she's going to be shooting his mouth off like that, even conservatives have jumped on him. let this guy keep talking, he's going to have enough rope to hang himself. martha: let's listen at what maxine waters said last week, she's pointing fingers in both directions and last week we had very unkind things to say about president obama. let's listen to that. >> the congress at black caucus supports the president, too. we're supportive of the president, but we -- and we want to give him every opportunity, but our people are hurting. the unemployment is unconscionable. martha: unemployment is unconscionable. clearly she fired off at the president last week, andrea. you know, it really points to all of this stuff, you know, the rick perry comment, it really points to the temper out there and the extremity of both sides in all of this in terms of wanting to demand some answers and change. >> yeah, i mean, you look at her home district and it's

12 percent unemployment in california. look, she's firing off at the tea party? i mean, the tea party doesn't control california. it's controlled completely by democrats. so is the white house. look, obama came in and he promised the congressional black caucus that he would help them, that he would advance an agenda that helps african-americans, and he hasn't done that, and the unemployment with african-americans is much disproportionately higher than it is with whites. so look, at the end of the day they're not going to stray from president obama. he'll have their support. martha: i find it interesting, back to the tea party element for a moment, when you look at this group, this grassroots group that sort of rose up, screaming and yelling about taxes in this country and spending in this country, have just been so dynamic on the political scene to the point where they are on the lips of every politician who discusses the issues most pressing whether it's maxine waters saying they should go straight to hell or sarah palin or michele bachmann who have harnessed the energy of this group in such

a dramatic way. bob, you cannot undercut the significance of this group and this dialogue. >> i don't deny the fact these people push their agenda on the american scene but they represent 10 percent of the american people. we're being held hostage by a minority of people. you say the rhetoric is getting hot. it is. we're going into a campaign season. i wouldn't use the words maxine waters did but i want these people to go home. >> but the midterm -- we'll see. >> we'll see. a lot of them have democratic districts. we'll see how well they do. >> i disagree. look at the issues the tea party stands for. they're not southerly r social activist, they're in favor of smaller government, lower tax and less spending. that is something that more than 10 percent of the country would agree with. >> that's your typical -- for you of all people, you usually don't use talking points. >> that's not a talking point. >> it's a talking point. >> no it's not. >> these people believe you ought to have strict

instruction of the constitution, when barack obama said he wanted to change the tone, i think he thought he was going to be dealing with reasonable people. >> and the far left is reasonable? bob, the far left is not -- >> martha: we're going to -- >> to hell with them! >> i knew he was going to lose it! martha: you know, what i know everybody is loving this so much, i'm going to tell them where they can get more of it, bob, andrea, you can see them every week day, they do that with a wonderful cast of character, dana perino, the judge, all those guys on at "the five". gregg: they shoot zingers at each other, but they actually like each other. people should know they like each other. martha: do you think that's important for people to know? they hate each other! tell the truth! gregg: another woman on the political scene, sarah palin mulling whether to jump into the race for the white house and why karl rove says he thinks sarah is

definitely going to run. martha: big developments there. we've got more on that coming up. and more bone crunching in the stands and on the field. what is going on? look at this, at the 49ers game. gregg: awful. martha: 49ers-raiders game. it got even worse than that. we're going to tell you about this, coming up right after this.

martha: breaking news now out of tripoli, there is smoke rising in the middle of the city there as you can see in this shot, central, in between the skyscrapers, we've been watching this story throughout the course of this weekend. coming up we'll talk to rick leventhal who's spent a tremendous amount of time on the ground reporting from libya, also, ed henry who is in martha's vineyard covering the president and his stay there coming up as well with the latest.

but that's the newest video out of tripoli. gregg: all right. we want to tell you about this story, an outbreak of fan fights and even shootings at the preseason game between the san francisco 49ers and oakland raiders. take a look at what happened in the stands, this is candlestick park. niners fans and raiders fans are just pummeling each other as other fans are standing around watching, some of them even laughing and cheering them on. a few feet behind the punches on the left side, you can see a mother and father holding their young children in their arms while all of this is going on. then after the game in a stadium parking lot, it got even worse, affiliate ktvu is live from san francisco. what's the latest on the shooting that took place, as well as the fights, what are we learning? >> reporter: well, all we know is that they are listed in stable condition right now, they are expected to live. police are actually looking for a link between the two gun shot victims, one shot in the face, the other shot

several times in the stomach and in one of the more serious incidents there was a man who was actually savagely beaten in the men's room at the end of the gale and he is listed in serious condition. police are looking for a suspect regarding that incident. gregg: unbelievable. what are police and the teams themselves doing to try to crack down on this violence, tara? >> reporter: well, you know, nothing has been done yet. nothing official. but there has been a lot of talk as you can imagine over the weekend on sports talk radio and water cooler talk amongst folks here, basically saying that perhaps we need to reexamine the alcohol policy at the stadium, alcohol sales are cut off at the end of the third quarter, people saying they perhaps should be cut off security -- sooner, security, there are questions about that, police saying they did have enough security and some are saying how much security is enough security. there's been talk of canceling the game between the 49ers and oakland raiders. this is such an intense

rivalry. some are saying it should not happen all together. there's also been links to gangs so people are also examining that. there's just been a lot of violence at games, especially in the wake of what happened to brian stow down at the giants' opener at the dodgers stadium. this has really touched a lot of family, people who bring their kids out to these games, they're very upset and they obviously want to continue bringing their families to supporting events. gregg: it's a sad situation, thank you very much, from our affiliate in san francisco. martha: in the meantime, take a look at this, hurricane irene is develop going a pretty strong storm to be contended with, sustained winds of up to 80 miles per hour, heading for the bahamas at this hour. is the florida coast in the path? we've got a live report coming up. you don't want to miss that from the extreme weather center moments ago. gregg: the international community roacting on -- reacting to the developing situation in libya, rebels

taking control of tripoli, mo -- mo maqaddafi, status unknown. coming up, reaction from the white house. my doctor diagnosed it as fibromyalgia -- thought to be the result overactive nerves that cause chronic, widespread pain. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i learned lyra can provide significant relief from fibromyalgia pain. and less pain means i can feel better and do more of what i love. [ female announcer ] lyrica is not for everyone. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicil thoughts or tions. tell yo doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior, or any swelling or affected breathing or skin, or changes in eyesight, including brry vision,

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martha: top of the hour, a "fox news alert." right now, for you, on the brink of what could be the fall of a ruthless dictator. breaking news, on these historic developments, at this hour. muammar qaddafi, in hiding, on the run, as rebels gain more of the city, and also, they gain international recognition at this hour, how we get started on this brand new monday morning. big hour of "america's newsroom," i'm martha maccallum. gregg: i'm gregg jarrett in for bill hemmer. the nato coalition that made this possible preparing for an

interim government in libya. martha: the problem is, it is often difficult to know exactly who is in charge, of course. few people know anything about the opposition leaders, and ed henry is traveling with president obama, in martha's vineya vineyard, welcome to you. what are you hearing from the administration about what they know about these groups? >> martha, they are being guarded with all of their comments, because they do not want to get ahead of the facts on the ground as we are trying to be careful and cautious with letting all of this play out. we have heard little from the president, in fact he has been trying to stay mostly invasion mode, getting briefings along the way but he was on the beach with his family yesterday and played golf, solo and you can see, the president and first lady came out of a restaurant, together on their way to a little party, dinner at the home of valerie jarrett, who is here traveling with them, the white house aide, but on his way into that restaurant, the president made brief comments suggesting he's going to say very little

until all of this plays out, take a listen: [cheers and applause] >> reporter: now after he made the comments, saying, look i'll wait for confirmation of what is happening with qaddafi, et cetera, before speaking out more, at valerie jarrett's rental home the president had a secure conference call with the national security team and put out a written statement, saying the momentum against the qaddafi tripoli is slipping from the grasof a tyrantnd the regime is showing signs of collapsing and the people are showing the universal pursuit of dignity and freedom is far stronger than the iron fist of a dictator and when he talks about the tipping point he suggestion the u.s. believes that colonel muammar qaddafi is in power and has not been captured or run away, et cetera

and are being careful not getting ahead of the facts on the ground, martha. martha: there is a nudge from france and also from italy, president sarkozy came out and said he wants to meet with the head of the tmc, as early as next week and they continue to be forward in their negotiations and their discussions with them, but, no sign of that yet from our white house and the administration. >> reporter: the president did say in the written statement he had a message for the... an earlier state department as well, basically they were telling the rebels, look, you have to make sure you move forward carefully, here. and that -- because they are looking at a post-qaddafi government and making sure it doesn't descend into chaos. they are sending that message. martha: thank you very much, we'll check in with ed henry a little later on this. gregg: the videotape that comes from libya is incredible. change unfolding before our eyes, people seen breaking utah in celebration, and are clapping, chanting and waving flags. let's go to our fox news

producer who is there on the ground and has been for several days, and he joins us now, by phone from tripoli, and, what is the latest? >> reporter: gregg, i wish i could say that the city here and the hotel and the international media, it was like what you are seeing on the screen, but, the atmosphere is edgy and very tense, and, the generator that powers half the hotel has gone down and, people are here, they are tired and getting frustrated and, the green flags of the qaddafi camp are flying outside the hotel and they don't tell us anything, they say we should not go out for our own safety and we take that to mean, we are not allowed to go out and we are kind of stuck, and, right now, we feel like we are in sol of a bubble, and, it is... gregg: hunker down and take all precautions, absolutely. but, are there any more clues as

to muammar qaddafi's whereabouts? >> reporter: that is the question, isn't it? everyone wants the answer to that particular one, and my guess is, a lot of resources, a lot of manpower, have been pushing into that question. a lot of people listening into traffic on the phones, here, and, eyes in the sky trying to find out where he is. and we know that there were reports of a convoy that was headed towards the algerian border and we don't know if he was on that. and, remember, he had said, that he would stay to the end. gregg: all right, tadek markows markowski. keeping us informed, doing a great job, thank you so much. martha: we have, thanks to him and the u.k. is set to dish out financial help to libya's opposition forces. british prime minister david cameron said to unfreeze libyan assets, once controlled by muammar qaddafi, that is an attempt to help these rebel

leaders establish order. >>. >> there will be difficulties days ahead. no transition is ever smooth or easy. but, today, the arab spring is a step further away from oppression and dictatorship. and a step closer to freedom and democracies. martha: cameron says the financial sanctions will be lifted, quote, soon, and the diplomats would begin moving back to tripoli, as soon as it is safe for them. gregg: one of the questions is, who is the rebel government that could be taking over libya, right now? we did digging into it. look at this. here's what we know. they are called the national transitional council. the ntc. and, now, recognized by 32 countries. as the sole representative of libya, consisting of former government ministers, opposition members, this council represents a wide range of views, including arab nationalism, islamist, socialist, and, business men. martha: qaddafi's regime on the bring of collapse, what we have been hearing for the last 24 hours, or so.

so, what now for the country? and what role will nato and the united states play in helping them find stability in these very teen news next 48 hours? joined by walid phares, fox news middle east analyst and, author of "the coming revolution, the struggle for freedom in the middle east." and the struggle continues, thanks for being with us. >> sure. martha: he's not gone ket and k. t. mcfarland, spoke to her a while ago, and she said he may try to gather tribal strength, using the money he wanthas, andt is your assessment at this hour. >> clearly the rebels now have the control of the national security apparatus of the country. but there are a lot of other... for the qaddafi forces and with or without qaddafi, regardless of his own personal fate, those people have been in control of the country for the last four decades, and they will not let go easily and so what is happening now in front of our own eyes is that the militias

and the rebels are slowly becoming the regime. and, the old regime is slowly becoming the new rebels, the militias and the next will be a struggle between the insurgents who will be the qaddafi supporters and the rebels who will become the government. martha: amazing how rolls change in this kind of situation. watching qaddafi for all of these years, what do you think? what is your best guess? would he have fled to tunisia with members of his family or would he has he has said in the past, died fighting right in libya and never leave his country? >> he knows he cannot go anywhere internationally. where he will not be pursued by the international criminal force. that is a fact so he'll try to go to areas either in algeria where the intelligence service or the regime will not provide official, not official protection or from algeria to southern libya where he can try and transform the forces that are loyal to him into an insurgency and the only limitation is psychological and

that is the fact that his three children, are in custody and that is a tremendous pressure on him. but, the real challenge, martha, if i can say will not be just the qaddafi forces and the government. the coalition of the rebels itself has islamist militias, and, bureaucrats and state people and what have you and the next real crisis will be between the islamist militias and the seculars in libya. martha: we have seen similar struggles playing out in egypt. thank you very much, good to see you, walid phares. >> thank you. gregg: a fox extreme weather alert now. the first atlantic hurricane of the season barrelling toward the tropics and could be heading to the florida coastline. which coastline? maria molina is in the fox extreme weather center. gulf side, atlantic side? do you know. >> atlantic side and not only florida, but we also have to keep an eye on the coast of georgia and south carolina. there is still a lot of

uncertainty as we go that far into the forecast period and that would be thursday into friday or even, possibly, saturday. if it does hit areas further out to the north and we know it will make a turn towards the north, northwest, and, the northwest direction over the next several days, but now we are seeing a lot of rain over puerto rico and the center of the storm has begun to move away from san juan, puerto rico, 95 miles to the west-northwest of that city. and, here's a look at the forecast cone and it is forecast to shrink the past hour and it increased in wind speed, 80 mimes, and it is continuing to shrink and there is a hurricane watch for the central bahamas, gregg, and, here's a look at the con, atlant -- cone, atlantic s florida, and possibly georgia, south carolina, a possible category-2 hurricane. gregg: we cannot yet say, good night, irene. hopefully we will be soon, though. back to the libya story, fox news has been on the ground of the story since the beginning of

the uprising. >> came right over our heads. i heard the whistle. right over our heads. apparently, they are zeroing in on this position, so we're going to grab our lids and move back to the first checkpoint, a little further back. martha: rick leventhal on the ground there. david lee miller, also, spent a lot of time on the ground, in libya as well, two of our many brave fox news journalists, who put their lives on the line to bring you this story, throughout the last six months. we're going to talk to both of them, we'll get their take on what is going on, on the ground in libya, today. gregg: a somber day, every year, as hundreds of names are read aloud at ground zero to mark the attacks of 9/11. would that change after this year's ceremony? a battle is brewing over the future of september 11th. martha: and a lot of people have this prequestion on their lips, it too late for sarah palin to

enter the battle for 2012? karl rove says the clock is ticking, folks. >> her difficulty is, if she doesn't get in shortly after next week, people will say she's not in and won't be in and if she gets in i will not be for her. looking good! you lost some weight. you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. a living, breathing intelligence

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gregg: she says she's still mulling her plans for 2012, which keeps everybody wondering aloud, is sarah going to run? former george w. bush advisor karl rove saying on fox news sunday he is betting she is in. >> not much of a gambler but i put more money that she gets in than she doesn't, because, the schedule she has next week in iowa, it looks like that of a candidate, not a celebrity. gregg: john fund is the senior editor for "the american spectator" and joins us live. john, good to see you. karl is a pretty smart guy and he says she's walking and talking like a candidate, must be a candidate. what say you?

>> i think carpal is a smart guy but i'll take the other side of the bet. i think sarah palin has such contempt for the media she wants to play them for suckers and i think she's pretending to run for president and she's going to surprise everyone next week by saying i'm not running, but, i'm still going to help change america and this is what i plan to do with my future. gregg: so this has been an elaborate tease, maybe driven by vanity? or, truly driven by ideology? she wants to contribute? >> no. look, i think sarah palin in the back of her head always thought she might run for president, a 10, 20% chance but, ultimately, sarah palin is 47 years old. she has lots of time to wait. if she were to run in 2012 and flop secopectacularly it would her ambitions and if she builds grassroots, as an organization,

he could be viable in 2016 or 2020 and there's all kinds of second acts in american politics and if you want to look at her new video which is professionally done, it is a clue of what she'll do, in the video, the only other candidate name that appears in the video are a bunch of people wearing rick perry t-shirts, she was close to him when they were governors, and if anything happens, she'll announce machine dors rick perry for president at some point in the next few weeks. gregg: the next few weeks, that catches me by surprise and what would it do for perry, do you think? >> well, sparah palin has an enormous fan base and it would get her a lot of attention and would detract from michelle bachmann's support and obviously, they share some of the same fan base. and, by the way, that is one of the reasons sarah palin will not run. michelle bachmann entered the race and has grabbed some of that constituency, rather than share the constituency i think

sarah palin would probably want to tilt it in another direction, perhaps, to governor perry. gregg: there is a column in today's "chicago sun times." and i want to put it on the screen and get your reaction to it. it basically argues that the g.o.p. field is utterly flawed. and, here's a quote from it: "democrats should be cheering on mitt romney, perry, bachmann. in this case, good things come in threes, the musketeers of flawed policies and small ideas could add up to a winning scare know for democrats." are they as flawed as the quote suggests. >> look, every democratic field is accused of having the same problems. in 1992, the democratic field included a whole range of people who looked small. but, one of them became bill clinton and he was a master politician when he finally hit the campaign trail and the '04 democratic field was dismissed. but, it produced john kerry, who won 49% of the vote against incumbent president.

despite his problems. look, once someone has the nomination they'll that have demonstrated campaign skills and abilities that will become apirn apparent and they'll become competitive. any field looks small when you want to look at that against incumbent president and when it is one person against one person it is competitive. gregg: let me ask you about another person not in the race, the weekly standard is trying to push paul ryan and others are talking to him, and trying to say, hey, this is your moment. i know you are young. but, boy, you are the guy who could really lead, especially on the fiscal issues that face the nation. how would you handicap him? >> well, it is significant that he decided not to become one of the members of the super committee that is going to be dividing up budget cuts and settling on budget priorities. so, that potentially gives him an opening to run for president. in addition, wisconsin law would allow him to run for president, should he not get the nomination he could go on and run for his

house seat and not give that up. but, in the end, i think paul ryan is likely not to run, children, and he also is very young, he's just over 40 years of age. and, i think he has lots of time to run for president. but, he's always wanted to be house budget chairman and i think that that is his priority and i think ultimately he'll be tempted but not run. gregg: but when the nation calls you must serve. we'll wait and see, john fund, always fun to talk to you. thanks so much. >> also, important to know the nation is not calling, it is just politicians. martha: john fund or karl rove? we'll hold on to those tapes and see how that work out! a lot working out, right now, in libya, as the rebels take 95% of tripoli, is the latest report we have, and there is one group of americans who are watching all of this. very, very closely and that is the families of the lockerbie bombing victims, this is the video of the only man convicted in the murder of 270 people, the

man hugging him is the son of muammar qaddafi and he has now been arrested and is in the custody of these rebels, okay? and what do the families of the lockerbie victims think of this? i'll talk to the brother of one of them, next. gregg: and new questions about the safety of air shows after a stunt pilot's horrific crash. caught on camera. this one, the second in just one week. >> there is not a torque in the engine to pull it out of whatever he was in and it belly flopped on the ground and a huge explosion you could hear for quite a ways, and, that was about it. no way he was going to survive that, unfortunately. [ male ann] where'd you get that idea?

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♪ ♪ >> hard to believe we are just a few days away now from marking the tenth anniversary since september 11th and today, there is a big battle that is brewing in the big apple, new york city's mayor, speaking on his weekly radio show saying future september 11th ceremonies may begin to look a lot different than the way we have watched them over the past decade. he says the city will begin discussions on how to observe the day going forward. wondering whether or not it should include the reading of the hundreds of names by the victims' families we have all watched over the course of these years. quote, he says, some people have said, you know, we should go on forever. some people have said, change is good. there will always be dissension and the papers will make a big deal of it, said mayor bloomberg. tim brown joins me, a 9/11 firefighter at ground zero and is continuing to fight on behalf of those who were lost this day,

ever since. tim, welcome. good have you here. >> nice to see you again. martha: nice to see you. you know, obviously, this is such a sensitive time. i have talked to family members in recent days, who have said that this is a very difficult anniversary for them. in that they really don't want to -- having a hard time talking about it and thinking about it. and this toirngs we'o get to a y will not be reading the names, what do you think about that. >> mayor bloomberg announcing that now is a bit hurtful to us, to announce that right before, you know, the anniversary, or the remembrance of ten years ago. it is eainsensitive to us and h did to it soften the blow afterwards that he dictates it will no longer be done and it is becoming more and more clear to me, mayor bloomberg is becoming the dictator of 9/11 and how we should think about it and what the their testify should be. he doesn't want anything above

ground that will represent the sheer terror and horror of that day and mike burke, who has brother, captain william f. burke, jr., has trying to demonstrate the destruction that occurred and he is being resisted and it seems to me mayor bloomberg among others want 9/11 to go away and they don't want to talk about it and want it to be in the back of our minds and move on. martha: we're looking now at video, that show that the beams of light that have come up from the world trade center site and, you know, i live in new jersey and we see these every year, and, it is a very moving sight. and now there is discussion they might need to find private funding to support continuing to do those beams of light, in years to come, you know, is that part of this? is it sort of a plea to kind of get people to pitch in and support this memorial, going forward? >> well, i mean, that would be wonderful. i think the lights on the eve of

september 11th is one of the most beautiful memorials anyone has done. martha: i agree. >> it means an awful lot to me. so, i would encourage people to support that memorial and try and keep it going. i will certainly do that, myself. but, i think there is a growing chorus of people that want 9/11 to go away, in fact, you know, bob beckel on this channel said that we should get over 9/11. because, it making it difficult for him and other people. well, geez, i'm sorry that my life is making your life difficult. i lost 93 of my friends, my two best friends and i have to fight every day to preserve the no, sir -- narrative that, islamic terrorists murders over 3,000 people in the name of their god, innocent people and we cannot forget what happened that day and i'll continue to fight for their memory and tell the truth

of what is happening in this country, though people are trying to bury it. . martha: i know you will, tim and we thank you for being here and we'll talk about throughout the coming days, that are hard for so many poops and we ask everybody to remember them in their prayers, it is a very, ve very difficult time. >> thanks for giving us the voice. martha: many thanks. gregg: they strapped on helmets and body armor with a microphone and years of experience, two of our fox news correspondents who braved the war to bring the story to you, live, with their case on the monumental events of yesterday and today. >> just to show the defiance of the libyan people we were arson ordinary civilians learning how to handle weapons and here you see young children, many of them only five, six years old, handling ak-47s. ♪ with diabetes, it's tough to keep life balanced. i don't always have time to eat like i should.

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terror. i remember one occasion, we talked about a moment ago, i was on the roof a hotel, where the journalist, the gilded cage, and i was on the phone, talking to the anchors, possibly you, i don't recall. describing what was going on. machine gunfire broke out, i ducked down and continued doing my report and we later went up to the roof, where i was standing and i don't know if you can get a shot but this is what we found imbedded in the receive where my feet were. gregg: bullets. >> reporter: that's right, fired from an automatic weapon and i didn't realize at the time how foolish i was to remain up there doing my report and i came close to not having a follow-up report that day. gregg: perilous. rick, you spent time with the rebels. what is your opinion of them? rick: they are dedicated, as a fighting force and their undisciplined as we have seen and heard. many call them the mad max army, and they lack body armor and helmets and adequate training on

the weapons they were carrying. and, many cases they just rushed fool hardedly toward the front line and many cases they turned around and ran back the other way but i have to say this: they have been running the country in essence for months now and people who question what will happen next, you have to remember they've kept the lights on in the big cities in benghazi and misurata, heavily shelled and heavily damaged. and they have people cleaning the streets. picking up the trash. they are looking out for their own and are directing traffic and people who have gone to the front lines, others have back-filled their jobs, at the power plants and, elsewhere, to keep things going. so, there is a transitional government, yes, and there are questions about whether the east and west can get along, but they are running their country and they have been, for months. gregg: david, you were at qaddafi's compound last, i think one of the last, if not the last public appearances by colonel qaddafi. >> for this is last appearance before the national media and had a snapshot camera and i have a photo, maybe you can bring it

up on the screen, a picture i was able to take of muammar qaddafi, only a few feet away from me and, in fact, he was probably closer at one point to me than you are now and i was able to take the picture with the south african president, one of his last attempts to try and appear as a world leader at the end of the day, it didn't work and he had the support of the african union but that simply was not enough. gregg: rick, history is littered with tyrants and dictators who, in the end proved to be cowards and fled and were hiding and saddam hussein, of course is a perfect example. cowering in a rat's hole, trying to hide from capture. are you surprised that qaddafi vanished here? what do you think is going on? rick: i think he's probably in a bunker somewhere, hiding and has been for quite some time. there are a lot of people who hate him, a lot of these people who are fighting now are desperate to see him gone. and the fact that he has held on for this long, most of the people i spoke with were not surprised, he has been in power 42 years and doesn't want to let

go and will hang on as long as he can but has to know he cannot run the country any more. >> how much of a coward he is, i was at the journalists' hotel and they drew the curtains and no one was allowed to enter that portion of the hotel and all the journalists were having didn't that's right $70 per person buffet that night and later we discovered that less than maybe 50 yards away, was muammar qaddafi. meeting with tribal leaders and he had come to this hotel to meet with the tribal leaders because he knew in all of tripoli, because it was the journalist hotel it was one place he would not get bombed and after he left, we realized we were there with muammar qaddafi but didn't get to see him. gregg: we have the picture now, you took of muammar qaddafi. describe it. >> a day he was meeting with the head of the african union and the president of south africa and this was really a propaganda effort to try and show that he had the support of african countries. and there you can see, qaddafi on the right, after the picture was taken, he then got into a

car, and, drove up to where the reporters were standing, and i was probably arms length and could have reached out and touched him but wanted to keep my hand and stood, fist raised up, jubilant and, you wouldn't think anything was wrong and he sped off and i spent a lot of time on the compound and i can tell you there were human shields there, people who live there day and night to try and discourage nato bombing and people who said they did so of their own free will. but, i can tell you that i seriously doubt why they were there. there were other things going on behind the sceneses. gregg: two of our terrific reporters on the ground a long, long time in libya, telling us their story. gentlemen, thanks so much. >> thank you. martha: thank you very much for that. all right, we have new developments, to tell you about, disappearance of a woman in aruba. a witness now has come forward and has poked holes in the main suspect's story. in the cases. a picture of robyn gardener,

missing since early this month and investigators launched a massive new search today, based on the new information, and phil keating is streaming live from aruba. police are now combing the southern tip of the island in hopes that finding robyn's body. what is the latest? >> reporter: we are now about two-and-a-half hours into the big search, 50 people helping to walk this very rugged area, that you see behind me, full of cactus an thorns and it is very, very hot out here, this morning. basically, this entire half has already been combed with the searchers, basically, spread out 5 to 10 feet apart from each other. they have now moved to this section of the island, they are now combing off that quadrant and the background, the building is the prison here in aruba, within which is the suspect, giordano, who has been there

two-and-a-half weeks now and off to camera left, my right, is the place that he claims he and robyn went snorkeling and, of course the police don't buy the story and they say the body would have surfaced had she truly drowned and been swept out to sea and the new witness came forward and he says he was on a boat, fishing off the coastline of the beach, and remembers seeing robyn and gary giordano together on the beach but not snorkeling. he said they both got into the car and drove away. back to you. martha: phil keating with the latest on that. thanks. gregg: muammar qaddafi widely thought to have ordered the bombing of pan am flight 103 over lockerbie scotland, 270 innocent people murdered back in 1988. the man who lost his brother in that terrorist attack joins us live, on what appears to be the fall of libya's ruthless dictator. martha: and an overstuffed suv packed with teens coming home from a weekend of fun in the

sun, and, today, four young members of one community and one football team are gone. >> it's not right... i don't even know... just heartbreaking. can i have some ice cream, please ?

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needed to be with people. that is what tonight is about. >> a big hit to the team, you know, four players, just gone. gregg: four other teenagers were injured and no word on their condition. martha: a tragedy. this other one the country has been living with for a very long time and now the crumbling of qaddafi's hold on power carries very special meaning for one group of americans, and they are the families of the lockerbie bombing victims and have been waiting for this moment for more than 20 years. 270 people were killed in the bombing of pan am flight 103 including 189 american citizens including the brother of my next guest. burt emmerman, lost his brother, thomas in the lockerbie bombing and we honored to have him with us now, it is hard to look at that lovely picture of your brother who you lost. >> 23 years later i never thought when it happened i would live a tom clancy novel, which

is exactly what has taken place over the last 23 years. i have been riveted to the tv over the last 24 hours, with exhilaration, satisfaction, vindication, with what is taking place with qaddafi. but, also reflecting on the 23 years, realizing that we have had to fight our government to get what we want, and, of a necessity i'm an expert on airport airline security and state sponsored terrorism and how to help americans by the state department and we're almost there, to the finish line. i praised president obama, i criticized him heavily when he allowed abdelbaset al-megrahi to go, two years, but he did the right thing, staying with nato and the bombing or it wouldn't have taken place today and i praise him for that. i ridicule the politicians and particularly many of the republicans for trying to criticize him on that. we went into iraq, at best on misinformation, and, worse on false pretenses. and we are supporting a government in afghanistan that

is weak and corrupt and we did the same thing in vietnam, and failed. and, yet, here in libya, the one place where the leader is responsible for the massacre of 189 americans, at 31,000 feet the politicians were playing politics again. martha: you feel we have had a very clear enemy, who helped to perpetrate a heinous attack against american citizens and we should have take then bull by the horns on this a long, long time ago and i think a lot of americans understand your feelings, in that regard. nobody feels the pain of all of this as much as you and your family, and other families of the victims, as well. you know, what about abdelbaset al-megrahi? what happens to him now that -- the reports over the weekend that he you know -- his situation was never as dire as it was ever presented. we know he's, you know, still around. and there he is, hugging the son of muammar qaddafi, now by the

rebels. >> he's a guppy, and what was done was for oil and big business and shame on our government and bp, and they were in on it, but what is important is both sons were arrested and that is critical and to eliminate or arrest qaddafi, the libyan people have a chance to move forward. let us not make the mistake we'll be able to bring democracy to the nation. it is amazing when i hear the people talk about that. let's try and develop their culture, the tribal background, you have a chance, it took us nearly 100 years, to give african-americans the right to vote and almost 200 years to give women the right to vote and, it is in sanity, the experts saying we can bring democracy within a month or a year-and-a-half and, it will not happen, let's use common sense and allow the u.k. and france to lead on this. martha: as they have up to now. thanks very much, good to have you with us. thank you. >> thank you. gregg: all right. let's go down to the newsroom. and, jon scott is standing by.

jon, what is happening on "happening now"? >> there is all kinds of breaking news out of libya. the end of the line for the dictator there. muammar qaddafi, after 41 years of often bloody rule. the fighting continues to rage in the capital. we will update you with live reports, and in-depth analysis, the very latest from our newsroom, straight ahead. plus, in the country, there has been a surge in flash mob crime. one in ten retailers now say they have been victimized and it hurts your pocketbooks. we'll get into it and we want to hear from you, go to foxnews.com/happeningnow and click on the america's asking tab and talk about libya news and other big news of the day. we'll have it for you in a few minutes." happening now." gregg: yes. 10 minutes from now. thanks. two horrific air show crasheses in one weekend. this one, a biplane spiraling to the ground and questioning

whether incidents like this should be prevented, should there even be air shows? >> there is no power coming on that plane and, 4 or 500 feet you knew he wouldn't pull out of it. see what anandra did? booking her flight and hotel at the same time a serious money-saving maneuver. book it! major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today. ♪ why settle for a one-note cereal? get more with honey bunches of oats. four nutritious grains come together for more taste, more texture, more healthy satisfaction. have a bowl of happy. all your important legal matters in just minutes.

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gregg: welcome back, moments of sheer horror, captured on videotape, as a man's life is taken before a crowd of spectators. >> oh, my gosh... oh, my gosh! >> ladies and gentlemen... >> oh, my gosh... >> ladies and gentlemen, we have emergency personnel who are prepared for this. we have planned for this sort of

event. gregg: kansas city aviation expo, pilot brian jenison, a delta airlines veteran, 15 years experience in aerobatics, losing lift and mruchlti inplummeting death and hundreds, including children, watching on the ground. the second fatal accident at an air show this weekend alone. an aviation consultant and former managing director of the ntsb, good to see you. you know, look. i understand there is a long and distinguished history of aviation air shows and aeronautics and so forth but the last 30 years, covering these, i've done story after story and showed video after video of this happening. is it a good idea to be doing this kind of stuff? >> well, you are right, you know, it goes back to after world war i, the barn stormers and the flying circuses toured america and this is a rich tradition in the aviation community.

we have safety experts who review the exhibition that will take place and review where it will take place so spectators are safe and reviews the credentials of the pilots. so i think it is awful tough to talk about, well, we'll stop this because we lose a performer. i mean, like are we going to shut down nascar because dale earnhardt has a fatal accident? it is horrifying and it is tough but, it is a tradition in america. gregg: the last one i went to was in wichita, kansas and i enjoyed it immensely and my heart was in my throat and i don't take my two daughters to air shows because i'm worried they'll see something. is there a way to cut back a little bit on some of the dangerous stuff that ends up in these horrible stories? >> well, i think, you know, after accident fatal accident, like this, or like the

wing-walking accident, your review, the faa and the ntsb, review whether the stunts being performed were really within the realm of being safe. and, if they weren't, they will start adjusting the performances. i mean, they'll check for the accident with the wing walkers and say, listen, does it really need to be done? and for the aircraft accidents they'll look pretty deeply into the performance of the plane and into the pilot's background, was he taking medication? they'll study that tape, to see whether you know, there was a missed activity. a tough issue. gregg: it is a tough issue. we love those shows, and there is so much history to them, thanks so much. >> good seeing you. martha: back to libya, rebel force are on the brink of seizing power and taking control of the country's vast oil wells

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