>> steve: the three hours is done for today. tomorrow we got lots of politics to talk to karl rove about and ann coulter. >> gretchen: and mississippi governor haley barber and brian's wrestling star, triple h. >> brian: he might declare his presidency. >> steve: what's his jobs plan look like? >> brian: labor day is over. put away the white stuff. >> gretchen: log on to our web site. we'll see you tomorrow. thanks guys. as we roll on, a massive fire burning out of control in texas. there are 500 homes in one town that are now gone. leveled. singed. thousands forced away from their homes, dry weather and high winds fanning those flames, a very dry summer as we start a new season.

welcome, everybody, on a tuesday, hope you had a great labor day weekend. time to get back at it, i'm bill hemmer. martha: i'm martha maccallum. it's a devastating scene across central texas, according to officials, fires are burning everywhere, thousands are forced into shelters, waiting to see if they have anything to come home to. >> i know i was outside working on my car and i happened to look up and i saw the flames -- not the flames but the smoke so i grabbed my family and started gathering my personal belongings. >> we didn't know where to go. it was to the -- it was to the point i couldn't see past my truck. it was so bad, you couldn't breathe. i'm scared. i'm scared to death. >> it's tragic is what it is. it's unfortunate that we aren't able to prevent this from happening. bill: let's go to kris gutierrez, watching this out of dallas, texas. there's so much to cover here. how bad is it, chris? -- kris? >> for a little perspective, we should tell our viewers

this, last year firefighters at the state and local level have responded to 21,000 wildfires that have consumed 3.1 million acres across the texas an area roughly the size of the state of connecticut, the worst is in bastrop, east of the capitol city of austin. take a look at this video. as you mentioned, nearly 500 homes have been consumed by the flames, at least 5000 had to evacuate, 400 of whom are in shelters because they simply had nowhere to go, an estimated 250 firefighters are working around the clock to put this out. so all hands are on deck, but still this morning, it is zero percent contained. no word on how it started, but strong winds from tropical storm lee helped fan these flames and tragically, a 20-year-old woman and her 18 month old daughter died out in gladewater, texas from another fire over the holiday weekend, they were trapped inside a mobile home that was consumed, bill, by those fast moving flames.

bill: it's one thing to watch these planes go up in flames, kris, but when you see the homes and the neighborhoods destroyed, it rips at you. you've had record temperatures for two months. that does not help. >> you're exactly right. take a look at this from the u.s. drought monitor, right now the state of texas, 81 percent is in what the drought monitor considers the worst possible rating, highlighted by the dark maroon color. we need rain and we need it now. bill we heard the governor a short time ago talk about lower tr-pes -- temperatures. you can -- you could use that, too. martha: wildfires in texas forced governor rick perry to skip some campaign stops in south carolina that he was planning on and he went back home to texas. the governor says his mind is on the fires, not politic: >> mostly i want to say

thanks to the men and women on the line right now, that are standing between a lot of your homes and fighting the good fight to try to save those homes, and more importantly, save those lives of our citizens. i have seen a number of big fires in my life. this one is as -- this one is as mean looking as i've ever seen, partly because it's so close to the city. martha: governor perry is also calling for more federal aid. he's reissued an emergency disaster proclamation in 254 texas counties. bill: that is remarkable. the damage we're seeing is epic already, flames claiming the highest number of homes lost in a single fire in the history of that great state. local and state firefighters now responding to nearly 21,000 fires since the start of the fire season and six of the ten largest wildfires in texas history have happened this year alone. that is historic.

martha: boy, it is just incredible. we're getting images we want to show you of the fires. you can log on to foxnews.com/slide show, take a look at the flames, the firefighting efforts, damage and massive evacuations going on. send us your pictures from a safe vantage point. your images could be part of our coverage this morning. upload those at you report at foxnews.com, and obviously, stay safe when you venture out to do that. bill: they have work to do in texas. in the meantime, some work to do in politics and the economy. there are brand new poll numbers from the "wall street journal" showing that voters are not happy with the president's handling of the economy. latest "wall street journal" numbers, president obama's approval rating, now at 44 percent. more than half disapprove of the president's involvement when it comes to the economy, and it's worse, more than 70 percent think the country is heading in the wrong direction. that's that right track-wrong track figure we look at every presidential

cycle. more on this, when karl rove joins us in a matter of moments here. martha. martha: talk about heading the wrong direction. signs are that the economy is not getting any better. a big selloff is expected ahead of the opening bell this morning on wall street. that's the way futures are looking, so we'll see how it looks when we get opened up. this is the first reaction, really, since those dismal jobs numbers we had before the weekend, investors concerned the u.s. is heading into a second recession, perhaps. president obama, previewing his thursday address on jobs and the economy. listen to this: >> there is work to be done, and there are workers ready to do it. labor is on board, business is on board. we just need congress to get on board. let's put america back to work. martha: it's a tall order, stuart varney. let's bring you in. for the president this week, he has to inspire the american people, he has to stand up there and convince everybody that the numbers are not what they seem, or at least that it's possible to turn them around. you've got a bad situation in europe leading into the

trading day, as well as the jobs numbers we have. >> tough situation for the president and tough for investors. martha, if the stock market were to open now, the dow jones industrial average would be down another 250 points, and that's on top of the 253 that it lost on friday. that's a 5 percent loss. now, why is this happen something in large part, because the president has not kind investors that -- convinced investors that his plan for job creation on thursday will work. yesterday, he was all in with the unions and a union friendly infrastructure highway spending bill. there's a great deal of anxiety that that will not work. tried it once, but it won't work. or that it won't go through congress. as you pointed out, bill just pointed out a moment ago, 70 percent of the electorate thinks we're on the wrong track, so the president has an uphill struggle, and he'll be greeted this tuesday morning with a big drop in the stock market. martha: it is hard to imagine, you know, there's so much emphasis stuart now put on this speech. i mean, is wall street looking for anything in the

near term i guess is the question, because i keep leak folks say well just going to wait until the next election, see what happens. that's a long way away. >> wall street does not expect to see anything that will, a, pass congress, or, b, work. they are hoping that ben bernanke will churn out the printing presses all over again. he makes a speech on thursday, as well. but as for the president, expectations are not high that he has a plan that will work, and that will get through congress. martha: all right, tough situation in europe as well. >> yes. martha: stuart, thank you very much. we'll see how things go, and we open up about 23 minutes from now. bill: can't wait for that! martha: could be really fun. bill: a slide right down. mitt romney getting out ahead of the president unveiling his job creation plan today. he's in las vegas, in the state of nevada, hard hit by the economic downturn. they've been struggling in nevada for years now. dan springer is there ahead of that speech. what will we hear today, dan? good morning. >> reporter: well, good morning, bill. in a word, details.

romney has talked in generalities about what he would do to get this economy rolling again. today we'll hear specifics. he's going to lay out a ten-point plan, things he will do on day one as the president, the title of the speech, day one, job one, among those things, repeal omabacare, he's going to cut regulations he says that stifle job growth and lower the corporate tax rate, he will also talk about eliminating investment income taxes on the middle class, he will talk about energy, about getting the economy going again that way, and trade policy, kraelting the reagan economics, a partnership among countries, committed to free trade. he will talk about china which he says violates trade rules, he when highlight -- will highlight his business experience, that he was a ceo in the private sector for 20 years, bill. bill: so this is not his first trip to nevada. his campaign will tell you they think they can win in the primary in that state. why is that? >> well, he won is in 2008. it's a very important state

a. swing state in the general election, but also one of the very first states and the first state to have a caucus or primary out west, so important strategically, but this is hardest hit by the economic downturn, unemployment, 12.9%, the housing market remains in the doldrums so he believes this is the state he has got to win as he goes into the republican primaries but also, this is a first chance for him to go as the underdog as he trails rick perry in all of the polls. this is a very important week for him and all those going for the white house, to have the republican debate on wednesday, then the president's speech on thursday. so a big week for all the contenders and a big week for romney as he lays out his economic plan for how he would get this economy going. bill: we'll watch it. dan springer is in las vegas. martha: coming up, we'll talk to former reagan adviser art laffer on romney's plan, president obama's plan and what you need to watch for in both of these plans, very specifically. that's coming up. fox is teaming up with

google to host a presidential debate, when is it, september 22nd, in orlando, it's going to be the big splitical debate event of september. you can submit your own questions that will be asked to the candidates. it's the very first time you'll be able to vote on which questions you want to hear them answer. so this is going to add to the fun in a big way. foxnews.com, and scroll down to the spotlight section, click on the gop presidential debate, there's a link there, you can submit your question, click on the ask a question tab. that's a good name for it! *t write us a question or submit a video question if you're fancy, technologically, you can put a question in there, and give them a thumbs up or numbers down. it's hosted by fox news and google, september 22nd, be there or be square. bill: what day of the week is that? that's a thursday! martha: of course it is. bill: we'll be there. those are some of the stories we're watching, busy tuesday morning already. this sunday will mark ten

years since the attacks of 9/11. we have had close calls, but in a decade, not a single attack on american soil, and no one predicted that. who do you thank for that? good question, about mike baker. martha: and the remnants of tropical storm lee, look at this, yet another scene of destruction in our country. flooding, tornadoes, and fires that we've been showing you all across the south, live to some of the hardest hit areas this tuesday morning. bill: think the campaign has heated up already? upping the ante and the language in the fight for the white house. did you hear the rally call for unions this weekend? great panel to talk about this. >> it's a fight literally for our right to exist. don't misunderstand what this is. [applause] >> don't misunderstand. not a joke. not a joke.

martha: a long island home was reduced to rubble after

a massive explosion overtphaoeurbgts the early morning blast in elmont was so strong that it shook neighbors right out of their beds. the homeowner was apparently in the hospital getting ready for surgery, neighbors who called him to give him the bad news say he is incredibly upset, obviously. >> i came down the block, next thing i know, the whole place is blocked off, so i called mike up, said what's your address, he said 150. he's a bundle of nerves, he's basically crying, and i was just trying to help him out, and i came back here to see what the result was. martha: terrible. the bomb squad is now investigating after guns and ammunition were found in the home. a lot of mystery there. we'll stay on top of that. bill: you wonder about the rest of the neighborhood when something like that happens. on sunday, the country pauses to mark ten years since the attacks of 9/11. it's been ten years. although there had been close calls at home, thankfully, not a significant attack since that fateful day. so what strategy has kept us safe and who should we think

about -- we thank for is that? mike baker, president of diligence l.l.c., an intelligence and security. thank you for joining us. two best decisions since 9/11, what are they? >> two best decision? probably going straight into afghanistan right after 9/11 to route out al-qaeda and remove their permanent bases from afghanistan and prevent them from having the opportunity to do long term planning, training, and preparation for attacks. then the other, probably best decision, is frankly obama's decision to significantly ramp up the drone campaign that had been started under the bush administration. bill: that's remarkable. and it's proven hugely successful. two worst decisions, mike? >> two worst decisions would be probably the creation of director of national intelligence, in an effort -- in an important effort to try to consolidate our abilities to gather intelligence and share it across the bureaucracies but the dni layered on

additional bureaucracy that to this day is still having issues. other probably worst decision is the ongoing effort frankly to nation build in iraq and afghanistan. bill: you think that's a bad move? >> yes i do. i don't think it's necessarily, at this stage, i don't think it is addressing our national security interests. bill: would you suggest a withdrawal? >> yes. definitely. i would. i think we have the ability to do what we need to do without trying to leave behind perhaps some stable pseudo democratic societies that frankly we could be there another 20 years and i don't think that's going to take hold but that's a separate issue. there's plenty of credit, to address your main point of who to thank. there's plenty to go around. frankly we have to thank first and foremost everything at the -- the cry, the military, the fbi, the nsa, all those people at the very front edge of this effort work constantly. if you argue that, you know, it's just happen assistance that we haven't been attacked over the past ten

year, you're basically saying it's down to luck but it's not. we know there have been plots, numerous plots, identified, disrupted, prevented, as a result of all the work that goes on constantly off the radar screen. bill: let's make two quick points here, an a.p. poll came out recently, one third of americans asked if they think their family members could be or would be a victim of a terrorist attack, they also asked this question, is it necessary to sacrifice rights and freedoms, civil liberties, to fight terrorism. 64 percent say sometimes. if you read deeper into that poll, by a large number, americans favor wiretapping overseas or watching the enemy not in this country, but when it comes to watching things that's happening within our own borders, they get very hesitant. do you understand that? >> yes i do. i mean, i think you can't ramp up, you can't increase your security measures without having some impact, some reduction in civil liberties. it just doesn't happen. president obama talked at one point about this false selection between our liberties and our security.

well, it's not a false choice. you can't have more of one and not have less of the other. but i also understand that, you know, people -- over a period of time, people do suffer from fatigue. we're very tired, after ten years of this war on terror. but i think that poll shows that people do understand that you have to sacrifice something to improve your security over the long term. bill: were we remiss not to mention the lone wolf scenario we saw that with nidal hasan in fort hood, texas and the military is all too aware of that possibility happening yet again. no significant attack in ten years, a credit to bush, a credit to obama, as you point out but the lone wolf scenario is something you are keenly interested in. mike, thank you. mike baker in new york. we will have complete coverage of the 9/11 memorial, mashing the attacks since 9/11. martha and i will be in lower manhattan for a special edition of our newsroom, live at ground zero, that is sunday, right

here on the fox news channel. it will be quite a weekend. martha: it will be and i think it's going to be a great way for everyone to get together and to remember and to join at that amazing place in this country's history. so we're going to be doing that throughout the day and we hope that you'll join us for that. big moment in our country's history. so meanwhile, how about this question today on this tuesday morning? could the sun be setting on your daily mail? you know, just going out to the mail to the mailbox, why a major crisis for the postal service could make your physical mailbox a relatic of the past. bill: a fight for anthony weiner's spot is a razor thin contest. could a normally democratic district turn red? >> so today, i'm announcing my resignation from congress. so my colleagues can get back to work. my neighbors can choose a new representative. and most importantly, that my wife and i can continue to heal from the damage i

have caused.

martha: things are heating up on the election front and it has been a democratic stronghold since the 1920s, but now this seat is very much up in the air and getting a lot of attention. how could you forget, new york congressman anthony weiner who resigned from his post in june after that nation side sexting scandal. that was a couple of fun weeks with that story. party leaders demanded he step down after the congressman lied about sending pictures like this to various women on the internet and now what's happening in his district is becoming very interesting, because there's a real fight to hold on to that seat for the democrats. now republican candidate bob

turner hopes that he will win that seat and he joins us today. we've also invited mr. wepurn who is running against him to come here any time as well. good to have you here today. >> good morning, martha, nice to be here, thank you. martha: what is your sense of why there may be some opening for you in that district? >> although it's a very strongly democratic district, the discontent on the overarching issues of jobs and the economy, the obama polices, are turning off many democrats. they're coming over, i think , erode thank base is necessary and getting democrats to switch will be the key to this. martha: obviously, now that -- let's turn to the poll numbers we have. this is a ciena poll, i looked at about three different polls, some of them show you behind as much as 6 percent, this one shows a tie, it also indicates that there's a lot of folks

who haven't folded this race yet and they're still learning about both of you so that leaves a lot of openings as well. nancy pelosi has shown interest in doing some fundraising, you have rudy giuliani -- giuliani in your corner and ed koch, speaking out for you. what's it going to take -- what do you think your biggest challenge is to close that gap? >> i think the momentum is shifting our way, and as we get the message out and more people view this as a referendum on the obama polices, that is making our job easier. i think there will be a new poll out this week, ciena, again, i think we'll see a very different story. martha: we're going to keep a close watch on this district. some are calling it a bellwether for what's to come. obviously you're in a district that's been democrat since -- since the 1920s. so we'll be watching it. as i mentioned, david weprin

is welcome here as well, as we see who ends up with anthony wao*pier's seat. bob turner, thank you very much for being here today. bill: a bit of a forecast, huh? watch the siena poll! >> martha: yeah! bill: maybe we'll be stunned by that. but that district has been democratic since -- >> martha: and you know, think of the huge amount of attention that district got and also remembering at the time anthony weiner, it was suggested he might run for his own seat, that he might jump in that race, and he's not. he's been very quiet. bill: dualing plans on creating jobs and getting that don me going. we will hear mitt romney's plan today, and he says president obama has already had that chance. >> i don't happen to think barack obama is a bad guy. i just don't think he has a clue, and having never worked in the private sector, never having had a real job, it's not a surprise he doesn't know how to create a real job. i know something about building and turning things around. see, i spent my life in the

private sector, solving real problems. working with businesses that did business around the world.

martha: republican presidential candidate mitt romney says he's the one with the experience to turn

the economy around and today he'll unveil miss plan to do just that, 3:30 this afternoon. that comes two days before we get president obama's speech to a joint session of congress but romney says the president's plan in his opinion will likely not offer any real solutions. here's what mitt romney says. >> the reality is that he'll do what he's done in the past, which is he'll take a little cup and put gasoline on it and try to throw it into the fire to get things going. we don't need gasoline here and there, we need log necessary that fire, we need to rebuild america's economy to put people back to work, to make sure our economy leads the world. martha: mitt romney echoed ron rald reagan in his proposal and art laffer is a former reagan economic adviser and the architect behind reaganomics, so you are a great person to talk to. >> good morning, thank you very much! martha: we're going to hear this plan to give people a quick sense of what's in it. tax rates on savings and investment should be kept low, he's going to press for

an overhaul of the tax system, eliminate bam care -- omabacare, also the reagan economic zone, a partnership of trade partners that could put pressure on countries like china, unleash oil drilling, -- drilling, the boeing decision in north carolina, no secret ballot for unions. what do you stph-pbg. >> i agree with almost everything he's doing on that. it's a great plan. if you saw huntsman in the "wall street journal," he also had a plan that mirrors mitt romney's plan as well, both, very, very good plans. i like them a lot. they follow the formula, martha, we need a low rate, flat tax, spending restraint, sound money, free trade, and regulatory reform. and that is exactly where these candidates are going, as are several of the other republican candidates, and i love it. i just think it's great and it will get us prosperity. martha: let's take a look at a poll, art, which talks about whether or not the president has a handle on creating jobs. and we want to pull this up for everyone to look at. this is an august 29th-31st

fox news poll, it says that the president has 45 percent -- 45 percent say he's got a pretty good idea of how to fix the jobs situation, 42 percent say he has no idea and 9 percent say he knows exactly what to do. you know t. sounds like he could poll theo pull folks across the line there if he has a speech that sounds different, sounds like he's going to change course on thursday night. >> and there's something that he could easily do, it's something that jack kemp did when he was alive, something i've been involved with. there's a group that's been suffering inordinantly. black america has been hammered by this great recession and by the obama aftermath of it. i mean, black teenage unemployment rates are up almost 50 percent, if you look at what happened to black employment in america. what he needs to do is do enterprise zones, where you have tax-free zones in the inner cities, where you have regulatory reform in the inner cities, where you get rid of the payroll tax, you

get rid of the teenage minimum wage, for sure, if not the minimum wage entirely, and really provide an opportunity for the inner cities to catch up with the rest of america. martha, we are suffering so much, these people are getting no chance, and by the time they're 50 or 60, in 30 years from now, they won't be able to cope with our society unless we do something right now. and obama could do that. i just hope he does. martha: i think you're so right about that, art. just one last question. what that takes is inspiration, you know, you have to combine those polices with somebody, as ronald reagan did and as fdr did, in desperate times as well, to truly inspire people who have been so downtrodden and so beaten up. >> exactly. martha: in very tough times. >> and you know, the republican congress could go along with him on the enterprise proposal. this is what jack kemp and i worked on for years, what

reagan pushed and this is the time to push it over the goal line and bring these people back into the mainstream of american life. they are suffering terribly. these numbers don't really tell you the tragedy that is being unemployed for three, four, five years, having kids, it leads to alcoholism, drugs, abuse of family members. we've got to stop that now. we can't wait for three years for a change in the presidency. martha: you know what, it reminds me of maxine waters, what she said to the congressional black caucus and she felt not enough was being done for that group of people as well. >> it's not. martha: thank you. we're going to watch what happens in the next couple of weeks. we'll talk to art again soon, thank you sir. >> we want to know what you bank this, log on to foxnews.com/"america's newsroom", is there anything that washington can do at this point to improve the economy? weigh in, see what other folks are saying, the results, later in the show. you can also send me a tweet if you want to put more of a comment to us about it, martha maccallum, love to hear what you think about that and what you think the

president could do to inspire people, because that's the tall order he has. bill: in the meantime, 22 minutes before the hour. there are developments in the phone hacking scandal involving news of the world, that former paper now out of business, it was owned by newscorp, parent company of fox news. our senior correspondent amy kellogg is on this story in london. what's happening now, amy? >> reporter: hi bill. well, former news international executives who were brought before a popularmentry committee today, bill, contradict \dollars/{^ed} what james murdoch told that very committee back in july. back then, james murdoch said he didn't recall seeing a document that laid out that the practice of phone hacking at news of the world went beyond one rogue reporter. today, these former executives, both legal and editorial, say that james murdoch did see that document, and they all had a 15 minute meeting about it. it should be said that the hearing, which went on for hours today, went back and forth a lot without any strong conclusions, yet, a

lot of discussion about recollection, about recall, and a lot of effort on the part of the committee to get 100 percent clarity on events that revolve around who at newscorp knew what, when, about phone lacking -- phone hacking and why a possibly six or seven figure settlement was paid out to someone whose phone had been hacked in an attempt to cover up the practice. this was labor m.p. tom watson, going at news of the world former lawyer: >> you didn't see it as gross misconduct, did you? you thought it was just recording the news of the world. >> that was absolute nonsense. the only problem, he got caught. >> that is nonsense. >> so now you have to conceal the crime. >> that is nonsense. >> you were desperate to assure it -- that hacking at news of the world was -- >> [inaudible] >> >> reporter: i think the bottom line, to bear in

mind, it is a couple peoples' word against james murdoch's word and that is a tricky one to ascertain. meanwhile down the road at the high court road in london, there was a parallel inquiry going on into press ethics generally, that is, sort of a sweeping look at how the press here bee haves, relationships between press and police, between press and politicians, and actually, there are a lot of people who turned up at this hearing who believe that they've been wronged by the press in one form or another. so it was really a big story from the united kingdom. bill: thank you, amy kellogg, live from london that story. martha: this is a fox news alert. we want to get you to the market. take a look, down 261 points, the dow jones industrial average right now, down better than 2.33 percent, lots of reaction to the european debt crisis, and huge concerns over whether or not the u.s. economy is headed into another recession. a double-dip recession.

all of that is weighing very heavily on the markets right now. we'll keep a close eye ton and all the action throughout the day. and now this. why a top republican says that he may skip the president's jobs speech. watch this: >> keep the eye on the prize. let's take these son of a -- out, and give america back to america, where we belong. thank you very much. thank you. bill: a major backlash over a fiery union speech taking aim at the tea party. will be the unions be the president's army in 2012?

bill: there has been no comment from the white house after union president james hoffa delivered a fiery speech, only moments before the president took the stage at an very ant in detroit. listen here: >> we got to keep an eye on the battle we face, the war on workers, and you see it everywhere, it is the tea

party. and you know, there's only one way to beat and win that war. the one thing about working people is we like a good fight. and you know what? they got a war, they got a war with us, and there's only going to be one winner. president obama, this is your army. we are ready to march. everybody here has got to vote. if we go back and we keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a -- out and give america to america, where we belong! thank you very much. bill: there was more where that came from, mary ann marsh, former adviser to senator john kerry, rich lowry, national review editor and fox news contributor, good morning. i mentioned this, i do have amy cramer from the tea party, she calls it incivil, inappropriate, the rhetoric to be outrageous and they're looking for an apology right now. rich, why do you think this is, i guess in a phrase, classic hypocrisy? >> look, after the gabby

giffords story, the white house, the democrats, the media lectured everyone on how dangerous martial metaphors are, how people get crazy, shoot people, and how we need civility, and rhetoric that heals not wounds, then you have jimmy hoffa at a podium, the president is about to take himself, using this rhetoric and the white house is silent. it's shameful and disgusting hypocrisy. >> bill: so what the tea party is saying, they're calling on president obama to, quote, strongly rebuke hoffa for his dangerous comments. should he? >> bomb is not going to coal -- apologize and he shouldn't. the fact is after being called every name in the book for the last three years, the only one who's paid the price is barack obama. face it he was tougher on hillary clinton in the 2008 primary than he's been on the republicans the last three years and the only one hurt by it is barack obama, so now we never heard john boehner apologize for joe

walsh calling barack obama a liar, we never heard him -- >> he apologized. >> john boehner didn't. >> but the guy who said it poll guide. >> he called him an idiot last week and john boehner didn't apologize to the republicans holding a fund-raiser in tucson to auction off a glock. president obama is not going to apologize because he has to show people he's willing to fight themselves. if he doesn't voters will think he won't fight them. after he gave a speech saying i'm going to fight for you, unions, fight for your jobs, and then to condemn them, that would be political suicide. >> he's a tool of the union and he needs these guys. he's the president. united states, he gave the national speech that said we need rhetoric that heals, not wounds. what you're saying mary is i believe that was patently insin seen, it was only meant to apply to one side and he wasn't going to take it seriously when it inconvenienced him politically. so that's exactly the thing. >> it didn't work. >> so civility is the -- so

president obama should know -- should he go back and revise stand his remarks and say let's use rhetoric that wounds, not heal? >> no, when he gets hit he needs to hit back and that's what you do in politics. if you don't stand up for yourself, you will lose. people don't believe if you don't stand up for yourself, you're not going to stand up for them. that's fundamental politics. >> bill: rich, for one month in august, that's what the left was saying, maybe not publicly but privately, they were looking for this president to punch back and fight back. >> of course. >> bill they're entirely frustrated by the fact that he hasn't. >> it was entirely hypocritical for the media, white house, the democrats, all e tphefplt masse to say we have to be more civil. what they meant is republicans and conservatives shouldn't use martial rhetoric, they shouldn't use firey and incendiary language but when it comes to their side, that was totally fine. it was utterly hypocritical,

utterly insincere and went to the tops to president obama. bill: what about that mary ann? >> after three years the deafty of insanity is doing the same thing gopher and -- thing over and over again and expecting a different result. it didn't change a thing. so now you have to fight back. you may not like it, you may not like the rules but those are the rule of engagement. you have to fight back. rope a dope may not work with muhammad ali, but in politics it doesn't work. bill: you say they have a target and placed that target on the tea party. >> of course. bill: that's what can get the base motivated. it's been three years since they've had much to motivate on because there's been bad news after bad news. >> they hate the tea party, they consider it illegitimate because it stands in the way of their progressive dreams so they consider any language or tactic legitimate against it. mary ann, i think this is where you're barking up the wrong tree. if you think what president obama needs to win the country back is a bunch of bullying rhetoric, you're totally wrong. he needs a jobs program that

will actually work. that's what he doesn't have and that's what he hasn't had over the last three years and that's why he's so low in the polls, not because he's been too polite. bill: last word, mary ann. >> the fact is the bullies in this fight have been the republicans and we all know bullies are cowards and when you hit them back, they buckle. the republicans will buckle when they get hit back, we'll see how they like getting treated. >> school yard logic. bill: we'll see you on the playground. thanks to both of you. >> there you go! martha: looking ahead to 2012, a big prediction today, the election is already over, in all but seven states says larry sabato. he is here, coming up next. bill: also, there is big trouble for the u.s. postal service, as if you did not know this already. and some of the wore extreme measures it's now considering.

bill: we have more bad weather for the northeast this morning. there's a major cleanup in upstate new york, cell phone video of a tornado tear ag cross a state throughway through amsterdam, new york. >> oh my god. >> screen left as it happened, and screen right is the after effects, residents cleaning up countless fallen trees and some, more than 100 years old. >> i can't believe what i'm seeing. bill: people there are still in the state of disbelief. >> oh my god, i can't believe what i'm seeing. >> i cell phoned my mom, she goes honey, there's a tornado warning for amsterdam, i'm like n n don't get tornadoes here. >> i'm more than shocked. you hear it, you see it on the news, but to have it in your face is so different. bill: i bet it is. it traveled 7 miles before

breaking up, that's an ef-1 tornado, known to pack winds of about 100 miles an hour. and it would send a scare through you, too. martha: we're hearing today on capitol hill about the future of the postal service. right now it's facing a decifit of more than $9 billion, folks, the postoffice already cut 212,000 jobs over the last decade. right now, more than 3700 branches are facing the possibility of closing, and all this comes after congress rejected a plan to reduce the number of delivery days and to change the retiree health benefits which may have saved some of those jobsful kelly wright is live in washington. so kelly, where is all this headed? >> reporter: well, the title of today's hearing says it all, if you will. it basically says u.s. postal service in crisis, proposals to prevent a postal shut down, and that really basically talks about about where the postal service is now. it is in deep debt, it is expect to go have a shortfall this year of $8.3 billion on heels of

losing 8.5 billion in fiscal year 2010. also this month, it will have to come up with a $5.5 billion payment to cover future employee health care costs. by law, the agency is mandated to break even but at the moment it's just hard to break even when your only source of revenue apparently comes from the sale of postal stamps alone. so leaders of the postal service are trying to figure out just how to stay afloat in a sea of red. >> martha: all right kelly, thank you very much. we're going to have to leave it there. we've got to move to something that we're getting into the newsroom right now. kelly, thank you. bill: changing times. changing times for that organization. martha: different world. bill: the white house, looking at grim poll numbers today. will that change when the president lays out his plan on jobs on thursday? or will it get worse? karl rove reacts after the break, top of the hour. martha: and a triple dose of weather troubles for states down south, the remnants of tropical storm lee leaving floods and heavy rains and even tornadoes.

we're live in one of the -- in one of the hardest hit areas. >> they had just finished eating and they walked into the living room, which is adjacent, to watch the soccer gale and like seconds after they left, the tree just like fell in the kitchen. they were very fortunate to be able to get out in time.

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martha: all right, we start you off with this "fox news alert." fresh poll numbers coming in that show a new lowfor president obama's approval rating. this is from the "wall street journal." this morning. look at this. 44% approval for the job approval number and 51%, disapproval. the lowest marks that president obama has seen in that survey, that is how we start a brand new hour of "america's newsroom" on a tuesday. good morning, i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. good morning, did you have hey good weekend. martha: lovely, how about you? bill: in the rearview mirror. bad unemployment news, tough to

shake off for the oval office, weighing heavily on the president's popularity, in poll after poll. martha: and poll numbers coming days ahead of the president's major address on creating jobs. karl rove, former senior advisor and deputy chief of staff to president bush and a fox news contributor, joins me now. good morning, karl. >> good morning, martha. martha: what do you make of these numbers? they have been heading in this direction, throughout the summer. if you look at this summer, you could very much call this the summer that president obama lost, you know, the -- most of his support. >> yes. these numbers are not good. they are confirming other numbers we have seen earlier. if you look inside the numbers you see for example among whites his job approval -- hispanics, dropped from 66%, when he was inaugurated, to 51 today, among women, from 56 to 43, among whites, 43 to 31. among independents, it is cut in half, it was 52% to 26%, and,

those are bad numbers and are largely being driven it appears by the economy. his job approval in this poll, on his handling of the economy, is low. 36%, i believe, 37%, and, that is reflective of a large number of other polls, where, basically, by a 2-1 margin, approaching that, people give him negative marks on the economy, rather than positive. martha: and another one of the big numbers, 73%, say the country is on the wrong track and we know from history that that is always a tough number to overcome for re-election. so, you know, you look at him about to give this speech, this week. he is -- tried a lot of things that met with difficult circumstances and if you were advising him, and advising the president whose poll numbers fell, what do you say, about how to turn the ship around and how can you go out there and say something that is dramatically different from what you have been saying all along, even if you wanted to? >> well, look, there is a

tension in the speech, beside what the president said when he announced that he'd offer bipartisan profiles an gain support of democrats and republicans alike, and, then the tone we saw yesterday in detroit, where he basically following jimmy hoffa's colorful description of what they would do to the republicans, the president got up and in a fiery denunciation, basically, said they better accept what i have to do or we'll run over them and there is a tension already. the problem for the president is to be found in one other number hidden inside the poll. when i was in the white house i looked carefully at the number of people who thought that president bush was a strong leader. and, in this poll, president obama has gone from 70% of the american people saying he was a strong leader at the time of his inauguration to 42%, today. if you have a number, in the 50s, even if your job approval is in the 40s, people say, you know what? i'll give you the benefit of the doubt because i think you are a strong leader and you may be

wrong and i may be wrong and this president's number, being as low as it is and dropped as precipitously as it has means the president -- a speech will not solve the problem. only results will change his circumstances. his words on thursday night, no matter how soaring, are unlikely to find a receptive inawnings a the only thing that will change is that his policies have an effect in making lives better and sending people back to work. martha: that what is he needs, karl, thank you so much, always good to see you. >> thanks, martha. martha: and look at this. you can crunch the numbers a million different ways but history shows americans don't always vote along approval rating lines after -- 949 days in the oval office, president george w. bush had a 52% approval rating and he was reelected to a second term. president clinton had a 46% approval rating and he was reelected as well. george h. w. bush, had the

highest of the three. 69%, at this point, approval rating number, and he lost the re-election bid. those numbers, once again, after 949 days in office, according to the gallup polling data which goes to show you, bill, we are a long way away from the election. and, it is a year from now and people may feel there is a trend in the positive direction, this president could very well be reelected. bill: in the meantime, the fires in texas. california, now, firefighters working to gain the upper hand on a pair of blazes there. one already destroyed a dozen homes, threatening hundreds more. it started on sunday, with a small plane crashing into a remote area, north of l.a., at least one person died there in the flames, and the flames spread so fast. >> it happened right in his backyard and he went through this last year. so, i just jumped in my car to come down here because i'm hearing him crying and, he was in shock, you know? so i had to come up here to kind of help him out and get him to

come off this property, which he just won't do right now. >> heartbreaking and feels like somebody just ripped, you know, the guts out of you and your heart and just kind of left you for dead. so, i just... i'm in shock right now. i can't even believe this is happening. bill: some of those pictures, the wide shot there, shows you the extent of the fire and firefighters trying to protect a community of vacation homes and a nearby wind farm and we'll see whether or not they get success today. martha: and further south firefighters say a wildfire in los angeles county is now 70% contained. it started when a barn and a trailer went up in flames and there are no reports of the fire destroying any other buildings there. cool temperatures, overnight, helped crews gain control over those flames and get the damage under control and we have more, though, from what is going on in texas. that has been burning out of control, get you an update on that a little bit later in the hour. bill: major problems in the south. tropical storm lee, which came out of nowhere, ripped through

the area, at least one death, being blamed on the storm, as it flooded out roads and knocked out power and spawned possible tornadoes. two people in the state of georgia believe they drove right into a twister's path. a tree crashing down on their van and, remarkably, they walk away without a scratch. >> the skies started to get dark and i said, maybe we should turn around and go back the other way and it turned out to be a bad idea. >> we turned around and when we did it began to... you could see the swirling and all of the branches were hitting and we stopped. >> and the car started to shake. and, next thing you know, there is huge limbs, just flying across the road. bill: that is a ride they will not forget. casey steegel is in louisiana, one of the places first hit by the storm. what is the progress down there, now? >> reporter: bill, good morning, good to see you, what a difference a day makes, in

plaquemines parish, in terms of the flooding in southern louisiana is making a fair amount of progress and where i am now, in fact was all under water if you can believe that, 12 hours ago, clearly, the waters are starting to recede and, wilkinson canal, by the way, behind me, goes straight into the gulf of mexico. but, they still have a long way to go, when you look at these pictures. this is a huge parish and we understand that extra pumps are being brought into the location to try and get all of the standing water out of here. the levels have dropped about 4 feet in the last 24 hours. primarily because the winds have finally shifted to the north, blowing all of the floodwaters back out into the gulf, and that is the good news here, bill. bill: what are the concerns right now, today? >> reporter: the concerns happen to be with highway 23, which is directly behind our camera. it is the main road in and out of the southern end of this

parish. it still has about 10 inches of water on it. and, it has been closed to most vehicular traffic and here is why that is a problem. listen: >> 5% of all the natural gas in the entire country comes out of here bow through a facility and refiernryes and -- refineries, and we have the gulf of mexico oil industry, work out of here. >> reporter: thousands of people, in fact, work down in that area and have not been able to get in for several days now, which is why it is crucial that those pumps continue to do their job. the wind continues to blow the water out of there and so 23 can get back open for business, bill. bill: casey, thank you, amazing aerial pictures. the flooding is back. casey steegel, louisiana. martha: and this storm system bringing tornado warnings now to north carolina. and virginia. meteorologist maria molina is live in the fox weather center

with the latest on that. good morning. >> good morning, martha. now we are looking at severe weather and had reports of tornadoes throughout the entire weekend, saturday, sunday, even monday, as it did make landfall in some of the outer rain bands, starting to move on shore, across parts of the southeast, what we saw across louisiana through florida and today, there are two watches in effect across north carolina and parts of virginia and south carolina, but i quickly want to point out, that lee in combination with a cold front is also bringing in heavy rain across parts of pennsylvania, west virginia and tennessee and reports of up to 14 inches of rain, across southeast louisiana as it made landfall, ten inches across alabama and mississippi and just excessive rainfall from the storm tsystem and now, two tornado watches and two tornado warnings and you know the drill, when you have a tornado warning, seek shelter immediately, until 15 past the hour, seek shelter immediately and there is another one along the virginia-north

carolina border that does include three counties, patrick, surrey and stokes county, martha. martha: maria, thank you very much. we'll keep an eye on that. bill: keeping her busy. martha: what a day! bill: forget the poll numbers, folks, the race for the oval office could come down to 7 states. and, larry sabato has a map you must see. we'll share it with you. martha: very interesting, coming up and he's one of the most influenti influential republicans in the senate and jim demint says he might skip president obama's speech thursday night. why he's standing up to the leader of the free world. bill: and president bush using air force one as a command and control center on the day that changed america. 9/11, the eyes of the man who piloted the president's plane on that fateful day. >>... i was frustrated i was flying around the country and i was frustrated we had been attacked and i was frustrated

the communications system wasn't working any good.

bill: there has been a major shakeup for michelle bachmann's campaign. she is losing her campaign chief. and his deputy. aides down playing the resignations but, ed rollin had interesting comments, he's 68, blaming himself and claiming he cannot handle the day-to-day grind and these campaigns are a grind. and he says she's very much in the thing and, says the two are a good team and it is a good time to move on. martha: one political forecaster says forget the polls, because 2012's election is basically, a lot of it, already over. larry sabato's crystal ball predicts the winner in 2012 will come down to 7 states, basically. the electoral college, check out the map. he says that these 7 states that matter are colorado, florida, iowa, nevada, new hampshire,

ohio, and virginia. so, larry sabato joins us, political science professor at the universities of virginia. good morning, larry, good to see you. >> good morning, martha. martha: looking at your map, you basically say if you look at things now democrats can pretty much count on the 175 electoral votes and the g.o.p. could count on 206, is that right? >> look, essentially, when you look at the map, martha, a kindergartener could color most of those states red or blue. you know, all states are important. i'm not saying that only these 7 are important. but, political patterns matter. and, people's predilections toward voting democratic or republican are pretty set in most cases even when they call themselves independents and most of the states are already red or blue and look at the national polls and the national polls are nice, interesting and don't really matter. the only thing in our statement that matters is the electoral

college. like it, hate it, love it, want to leave it, it is what will elect the next president. martha: it is fascinating the way you kind of break this down. there has been a lot of attention given to the latino vote which could have a big impact on several states and when you look at the demographic groups obviously it can lead in certain states to an electoral college move and you point out if we get a third party candidate in here which i think in some scenarios looks somewhat likely it could throw a big wrench into the mix. >> absolutely, and look, all better are off and if you want to speculate and after all, we're in the speculation season and we are more than a year away from the election, so we can say wild and crazy things. we can have 2 or 3 independent candidates, you never know, you could have a libertarian and a green and some kind of centrist independent candidate, a celebrity with a lot of money and you can speculate wildly and it will change the electoral college, and they will not win

waits, probably but could drain enough from one of the major party candidates to shift the election. martha: we showed numbers earlier that basically looked at this period in time, and, previous presidencies, and cases where they wanted to win a second term, like bill clinton and george bush and looking at george herbert walker bush, in excellent shape, 69% approval rating, something like that and obviously we have a long way to go and a lot can happen over people's mood in this country over 14 months. >> that is absolutely true and i tell people to pay less attention to the national polls and more attention to the electoral college and also, the fundamentals, like whether the economy is growing or not. where presidential approval is. where the unemployment rate is. these fundamentals will matter in the end, a lot more than today's ephemeral poll numbers. martha: you do the ad hoc holpo

and i talked to people with three different backgrounds, one a new yorker who voted for president obama last time around and, all three of them told me they look ron paul which i thought was really interesting. and, they are very different people, and it sort of goes to the issue of this possible third candidate, or somebody in the mix that makes a difference, this time around? >> well, that's right, and, also, we are at the shopping stage. you know? that is why the polls change so quickly. people are shopping around, but they are not ready to buy yet. they don't have to buy until the voting starts. martha: and that is the great thing about a democracy, and lots of choice out there. larry, thank you so much, very interesting to watch over the next 14 months, good to see you, sir. have a good one. >> thanks. bill: and, i know what we'll be doing on september 22nd, the presidential republican debate, orlando, florida, submit question for the candidates and for the first time will vote on which questions you want the candidates to answer.

go to foxnews.com and scroll down to the spotlight section and click on the g.o.p. presidential debate and you'll find a link to submit your question. click on the "ask a question" tab and you can either write a question or submit a video, if you like for the candidates and you can also give other submitted questions a thumbs up or a thumbs down and you can vote on the topics and vote on the themes, the republican debate hosted by news and google. on september 22nd. martha: they stole your bya idea for the whole thing, "because you asked." give bill hemmer some credit. ladies and gentlemen. bill: watch the best and steal the rest. outrage after an air force class taught by military chaplains is suspended because they used a bible passage in one of their lessons, what is being done. martha: and breaking news out of texas, rick perry saying the wildfires have burned a thousand

homes in the state of texas. this is a heart-breaking story, folks and it is still zero contained. >> we have had something like this in our past, but this is much worse. larger scale. >> i was at work, got a phone call to come home and get my stuff, because they are evacuating.

bill: a "fox news alert," now, because texas is on fire. just into "america's newsroom," the governor, rick perry taking a helicopter tour of the damage from the massive fires burning there, we're working on getting that video and you'll see it in a moment here, as soon as we get it in america's newsroom. and perry saying those fires have destroyed more than a thousand homes in the past two days. local officials in the state are doing whatever they can to try and stop this destruction here.

listen up: >> what we're doing is trying to protect the homes and structures and get people out. >> it is hard to see this, i've never been in anything like this. bill: a lot of folks now are dealing with something they have not experienced. les rogers, the regional chief fire coordinator for the texas service, good day to you, i wish it were a better day in the lone star state. is it zero containment, still. >> they are working on 20 cen o containment but over 600 homes on this one fire alone is destroyed homes. bill: 600 homes and where is that in relation to austin or houston? >> it is just east of austin, 20 miles or so, and, another 100 or so west of houston. bill: i see. is that a newer subdivision?

>> actually it went through multiple subdivisions, about 20 actually were impacted by this large fire, you know, it is a little over 30,000 acres and has gone through multiple subdivisions in the small community. bill: we saw a picture of the governor in a helicopter tour we believe to have taken place an hour ago. what do you need, sir? >> i tell you, texas has been going through this now, approaching 300 days of the fire season, so, it continues just to get worse and worse, and, 81% of the state has been at and a all-time record drought, exceptional drought which means 81 -- we are setting records every day. bill: and that is remarkable. i heard the governor this morning on "fox & friends" and he said the temperatures are down into the 60s today. i don't know, can you remember a time the past couple months where you had temperatures that low? because you would think with trying to get moisture in the air that would be the best news of the day.

>> it would. i actually can't remember the last time we got down our temperatures this, low, when we actually came into the office, and we're actually seeing, you know, going some areas, anywhere from 40 to 70-plus days of triple-digit heat which is totally uncommon for texas. bill: good luck to you, okay? we'll be on the story throughout the week here, okay? a thousand homes burned and a lot of these places, zero percent containment and other places, 20% and sir, we'll be in touch with your office and good luck to everybody down there in texas. martha? martha: the president is about to unveil his plan to get americans back to work. why isn't south carolina -- why doesn't senator jim demint want to listen to the plan. bill: look at this. a brave fisherman who helped two people escape is telling quite a story. >> the owner of the boat was,

you know, really devastated. his companions seemed in shock, from the experience, where the owner was in shock from the loss, more, i think. hi. you know, i can save you 15% today

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martha: back to school today for a lot of kids and back to school for congress as well, you could say, back from their summer recess and they've got a lot of things on the agenda when they get back, they've got the jobs crisis, a budget crisis,

immigration, energy, and wars overseas, so mike emanuel is here with us for a look at what they are going to do, and first on their agenda -- good morning, mike -- how's it looking for them as they get back to work? >> reporter: both sides say they agree that job creation is a critical priority but as with everything in this congress the question is the approach. we saw with the debt deal before the lawmakers went on their recess there was not much common ground between the two parties, and so it will be interesting to see if democrats and republicans after speaking with their constituents over the august recess have some areas of agreement in terms of job creation. the senate is back to afternoon, we expect the leaders of the senate to speak on the senate floor to kind of set the tone for the week, you can bet there's going to be a lot of buzz in the next couple of days about the president's speech coming on thursday, but they get to work this afternoon, the house comes back tomorrow, martha. martha: of course, mike, 12 of them are going to get a whole lot of attention, this

supercommittee whose job it is to cut the nation's debt to the point where they won't have to start slashing other areas. what do we expect to hear from them and when? >> >> reporter: that's right, it is a supercommittee, six republicans, six democrats, headed by senator patty murray from the state of washington, a democrat, and house republican jeb hensarling, republican of texas, they've got to find common ground to cut up to 1 1/2 trillion dollars by thanksgiving. it not there are drastic across the board cuts that go into the areas of interest, in terms of republicanning lose -- perhaps losing defense spending and democrats losing key spending and so a lot of pressure on those lawmakers this fall. martha: that's going to be very interesting. mike, you've got a good seat for all of it. thank you. bill: you can watch that speech, 7:00 eastern time on thursday night, that's when the jobs speech happen, but now one of the most influential senate republicans is saying he might sit this one out.

jim demint said the following, if he sent a written proposal over first, meaning hear the president, i would go hear him explain it but right now, right now i'm so frustrated i don't think i'll go. what do others think about that? >> congressman nick mulvaney is live in columbia, a south carolina republican, serves on the house budget and small business kpheudie -- committees. sir, good morning to you down there, in the pal metro state. -- pal metro state. are you going to watch t. skip it? >> i'm going to go. i understand the senator's position on t he's seen this act before. you can go back and look at what president president said during the state of the union, he said things will reducing regulations, encouraging job growth and actually did the exact opposite. if we're going to expect more of that from the president you can understand why senator demint is going to take that position. i'll go. i always enjoy getting to see the president live. i'm a freshman, and so i enjoy the opportunity, but

we will be looking for real specifics. when the president talked about his plan for cutting the decifit over the summer, once we started to take a look at it, we realized there was no plan there, it was talk, talk, talk, no action. so we'll be looking for specific ideas, specific proposals to furs -- thursday fight and night and if we don't get them it will be a disappointment to the administration. bill: to that point, our own ed henry and peter barnes talked to people at the white house and they found out the white house was already lowering expectations for the speech thursday night. and if you're looking for specific ideas, i mean, does this need to be a home run? you know, do you expect to walk out of there and say that was a nothing burger? >> i'm not the one they need to worry about. it's the folks that don't have the jobs that they need to worry about. if they come out with a bunch of hot air, they're going to have let those people down yet again. you're going to see the republicans start week south

introducing specific ideas. leader cantor has already started to roll out this regulatory overreach we want to cut out, we've taken up the nlrb lawsuit against boeing, to try to determine how that federal agency, that branch of the administration is killing jobs right now. you're going to see specific ideas out of the republicans and if the president can't counter that, we'll thraoefb to the american people as to who they want to have in office come next year. bill: you just had, what, 24 town hall meetings in the month of august? >> we had about eight formal town hall meetings, about 30, 40 stops where i gave presentations on the debt. bill: that's a lot. >> it was basically well received. bill: what are they telling you down there in south carolina? >> stop spending the money. it's pretty simple. folks back home -- i've always said that washington doesn't lead, it follows, and south carolinians have been through this very real process of trying to figure out how to make ends meet. the state government has done the same.

our businesses have done the same. and the question i get back home is why can't washington do the exact same thing, and until we do they're not going to be satisfied and i don't blame them. bill: do you think your answers were sufficient? because apparently you got a lot of questions. >> i hope so. i did. i actually spoke to the ncaap, which i don't know how many republicans have done that. we've reached out to everybody that we possibly can. my attitude has been look, before we can even start to have meaningful conversations about how to fix this problem that's grown up over the last 30 or 40 years, we have to at least be able to agree on the situation that we're in and how bad the decifit is. i talked before on your show about how the analogy is we're a family that's making $46,000 a year but we're spending $78,000 we've got $300,000 on the visa bill. those are real numbers that correlate exactly to where we are and i need folks to understand that and i think we can understand and agree on that before we start talking about things. bill i know you're big on deregulation and republicans in the house are going to be big on that when they come

back to work tomorrow, cut, cap and balance, but we'll see whether or not you get what you want to hear on thursday night and perhaps we'll bring you back and talk about it again, thank you, sir, nick mulvaney, columbia, south carolina. >> thanks bill. martha: it is a class on war clearly that is based on philosophy and religion but now the air force class has been suspended and that isn't sitting well, in particular, with a couple of republicans who are speaking out about this. we're going to talk about that. bill: also take a look at this monster, the massive menace accused of killing livestock and attacking fishermen. what is it? >> martha: what is it is right. not a nothing burger! >> bill: don't want that!

bill: got a fox news alert.

we mentioned this a moment ago, governor rick perry, of texas, seeing east texas by helicopter. texas has already lost a thousand homes, and a lot of the fires, zero contained, some of the others, about 20 percent, but it varies based on the fires and outbreak, will it's near austin or houston, texas. this is a big deal, because they had a huge, scorching hot summer, triple digit temperatures for more than 60 days in areas of dallas. it is dry, they've been hit with droughts, and right now, we have no firm idea as to when this mess ends. rick perry by helicopter. martha: so many have lost their homes. very tough situation. so we're watching that. and now, this for you. a republican senator is now demanding some answers from the u.s. air force after a class on the just war theory was suspended for using bible passages in the course load. here's a part of the letter that texas senator jon cornyn sent to the air

force, quote, our military services are comprised of people representing all faiths, however, the fact does not preclude military chaplains from teaching a course on just war theory. merely because it has historically been predicated on religious texts. so what does this bring up? let's go to doug pwurpbgs, joining me now, former federal prosecutor, and tamra holder, former defense attorney and fox news contributor. welcome to both of you. basically, this is a course that is taught to the new recruits and it goes over the idea of a just war, which is a very sort of philosophical and ethical discussion to have. is there such a thing as a just war. and part of what i read talked about, you know, those who fire missiles being -- this is a course that they go through because obviously the ramifications of their actions are huge, and it helps them to sort of think about that as they head into this line of work. so tamra, why the objection to allowing bible verses to be incorporated into the

discussion of this, which is taught by the chaplain? >> well, for that very reason, martha. i think because it is taught by chaplains, it's not taught by any other air force officer. it's a mandatory class, and you know, to teach phorbls and ethics is not a bad thing. the problem is, the jesus christ, the you know, abraham, and all these different biblical tones and insinuations -- and it's not just jesus christ, it's not just the bible, but there are also the teachings of a former nazi in there -- most of the complaints are also, martha, coming from christians and catholics who have been through this program. it's not from other religions. martha: doug, legitimate complaints? >> yes. martha: what about the legal basis for this? >> i have to look at why this happened. first of all this course has been there, martha, for 20 years, okay, so the first question you want to ask is what happened. what happened is a group,

you know, military, religious freedom group, came in and challenged it now because they were concerned about how a hard right movement in the military that would be promoting religion. the point is this is one of the ideological hot button issues in our country with abortion, the major areas people talk about back and forth with the supreme court but this does not establish a religion and doesn't prevent the free exercise of religion so legally i think it's very weak. >> it doesn't matter if a course -- >> martha: the religious military freedom foundation that doug brings up, when something goes on like this for a very long time, there is a question of why now, why is this getting attention now and this group has brought it to the forefront, but it raises a lot of questions. you would expect, wouldn't you, tamra, if you're going to do this and have a military that encompasses people of different faiths and backgrounds, that a question of ethics i think is highly appropriate for the training of our

military. but it does beg the question, should it not come from many different sources. >> well, yeah. but a deeper question is why did the military or why do top air force officials not know about the program. doug is correct that it has been going on for 20 years. that doesn't necessarily make it right, and you wonder why nobody at the very top knew about this. there are many ways that you can teach ethics and morals and war without forcing new recruits. many of whom are not highly educated, who are going into the military, teaching them things about, you know, the bible and jesus christ. there's no place for it right now. we need to look at morals and ethics, not at religion. martha: doug, what do you think? >> see martha, you can't excise every religious effort. i understand tamra's argument but the fact of the matter is you pull a dollar bill and it says in god we trust. people joke about the fact about why is that on there,

should it be, and the fact is there are religious references in the course of this particular military corks but again, not to be a broken record, i don't believe that it establishes a religion, and it certainly, by the way, uses the old and new testament. i don't think that it prevents the free exercise -- you know, as i say, it's a hot button used logical debate more than anything else. martha: we're going to keep digging on this, it's an interesting debate. tamra, thank you very much, doug, always good to see you both, kind of opening the door a little discussion. we'll see what john cornyn has to say about that. bill we'll see what jenna lee's got cooking on a tuesday morning. jenna: taking a look at the markets, stocks taking a hit. we're going to look at some of the different angles that are affecting this economy, including a town hall usa. post your questions by logging on to foxnews.com/happening now, click on the america's asking button and get us your questions, we're going to pose them to the experts today. senator joe lieberman is

here to talk jobs and the new book "the gift of rest", appropriately talking about this after a long labor day weekend and getting back to work, bill. bill: rest? >> [laughter] bill: see you in a couple of minutes. i don't even want to look at the dow, by the way. jenna lee, thanks. on 9/11, it was president pw-rb's command center in the sky, but who was flying air force one on that fateful day? you will meet him and learn his story -- bush's command center in the sky but who was the flying air force one on that fateful day. you will meet him and learn his story. >> people were armed, stewardess at the top of the stairs were sad and concerned and frightened. i remember giving them a big hug and saying everything will be all right. and then i said, let's go to washington.

march all right, talk about bad luck, an ohio man misses out on a $99 million jackpot that was won by his coworkers and not feeling too happy about it. that's no big surprise. so nowsy suing, what else do you do, america, what things go wrong, claiming he's owed part of the prize because he took part in the office pool for years! not this office pool! but he took part in it for years. he says he didn't play because he was home, injured. some in town believe he is just a sore loser. >> sorry about your luck, i guess. you got to pay to play and if he was part of the group at one time, he was part of the group while he was paying, and do win the lottery you so to pay in to reap the reward, i guess, so unfortunately, i think he missed out. martha: apparently he never heard the slogan you have to

be in it to win t. right? a judge has ordered the lottery commission to set aside $2 million, just in case the man wins the lawsuit. bill: he's drinking wine from the sour grapes today. martha: i know. bill: so the man who flew air force one on september 11th, talking now about that day. in the hours after the attack, air force one served as president bush's airborne command center. >> as i flew around, it dawned on me, we're the only plane left. >> i looked out the window and we had armed escorts. you don't want the president flying back into an environment that is dangerous, and if something were to happen to me, it would have an major blow for the terrorists, because they would have killed the president of the united states in a time of war. bill: eric shawn talked with the man who served as pilot for the president that day.

good morning to you tkpwhrao >> reporter: good morning to you. it is the symbol of america in the global sky, on 9/11, air force one pilot mark tillman thought the president's plane, code name angel, was one of the targets as he flew president bush from sarasota, florida. >> we got word from the vice president and the staff that angel was next, angel being the classified call sign of air force one. >> and that seemed to be very real. the warning came after controllers sedan unidentified aircraft was bearing down on air force one. >> as we got over tkpwhra*eupbsville, florida, we got the word from jacksonville center, they said air force one, you have traffic behind you, and basically above you, that's descending into you, we are not in contact with them and they've shut their transponder off, and at that time, it kind of led us to believe, okay, maybe somebody was coming into us from sarasota, they saw us take off, they stayed high and are following us at this point. we had no idea what the capabilities of the

terrorists were at that point. >> that turned out to be a false alarm, but tillman was taking no chances. >> i asked for fighter support, basically if an airliner, if that's part of the attack, then it would be good to have fighters on the wing to take care of us. >> air force one eventually returned home safely, but when he landed, tillman knew the nation had changed forever. >> they caught us with our pants down, they attacked our country, attacked from within. it was a big deal to me, and i knew we had a lot of things to change, because you know, air force one was completely secure, but there are ways to get at us, so from that day on, our security changed tremendously. we had to make sure that every little hole in our armour had to be filled so we could protect the president. >> colonel tillman responded to several potential threats on 9/11 and after all commercial traffic was grounded air force wasn't its fighter escorts were nearly alone in the sky. tillman by the way now flies the president of an american corporation in a much smaller jet but the lessons of that september tuesday are always with him.

bill they certainly are, eric shawn, terrific look there. thank you. martha: well, he weighs more than a volkswagen beetle, more than 20 feet long and now locals are planning to turn on this historic predator. what is that thing? we'll be right back.

martha: the misvery about to be solved, folks, turning peril into profit in a poverty stricken world, a prehistoric predator soon to be on display, they captured this 2400-pound crocodile, it is the largest ever taken alive, more than 21 feet long, 25, some would say! now he is headed for a new eco tourism park. that sounds like fun. in a small town of un -- bunawa. it took about # hundred people to get this beast o