down to who wrote a better book. analysis on the winners and lose respect and good morning, everybody, and good to have you with us, i'm pweupl hemmer, how you doing? >> martha: good morning, everybody. i'm martha maccallum. you had nine candidates, great questions and really a new take on who's gaining momentum and who seems to be losing it a little bit. take a listen to some of this: >> i'm tempted to say that when all is said and done the two guys standing in the middle, romney and perry, aren't going to be around because they're going to bludgeon each other to death. >> let me fell you the title i want to hear about president pwr-pl -- president obama and that is former president barack obama. >> president obama has the lowest public approval rating of any president in modern time. he hasn't gone to the basement yet. it will be a lot lower than what it is now. >> he gave in a speech in 2001 where he talked about buying national health insurance between mexico and texas. i don't even think barack

obama would buy national health insurance. >> have you ever even been to the border with mexico? i'm surprised if you have, but you weren't paying taken. unlike governor romney's plan, my plan throws out the old one, he's still hooked to the current tax code. that dog won't hunt. >> let's go hunt fog dogs now, byron york, chief political correspondent, washington examiner, and fox news contributor in orlando. good morning to you. >> good morning, bill. bill: byron, these debates move the ball forward in some respect. handicap the debate from last night, who do you think scored it most effective? >> as i thought, it was one of the members of the lower tier, former senator rick santorum who was the most effective really got in a lot of hits and showed a certain amount of poll -- policy department t*. -- depth. mitt romney performed well, newt gingrich and hemain cain also performed well. bill: you look at the headline and a lot of the political websites and they talk about the texas

governor rick perry and how he d i'm going to play a little of the back and forth between whom you mentioned, santorum and the texas governor when it comes to immigration. roll this: >> you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought there, by no fault of their own. i don't think you have a heart. we need to be educating these children, because they will become a drag on our society. >> most folks who want to go to the state of texas or any other state, out of state, have to pay the full boat. the point is, why are we subsidizing? not that they can't go. they can go. they just have to borrow money, find other sources to be able to go. and why should they be given preferential treatment as an illegal in this country? that's what we're saying. bill: a lot of applause in the arena last night. the least effective in that debate, did you score that, byron? >> you just played it.

it was texas governor rick perry did not have a good debate and this was an important debate for him, because he had done well in his first debate, not so well in this second -- in this second, so this was going to show the trajectory of his performances. the thing that does not sit well with republicans, to them, to republican ears, it sounds like a liberal talking, it's kind of when romney -- like when romney was criticizing social security. so he. bill: it all contributes to the nominee, who the nominee is, what's the takeaway then? >> the impression growing in the few days since the debate, perhaps perry was losing, and i think that perception was probably strengthened now, so it's going to be interesting to see how his fund-raisers react, does the perception grow among republicans, perhaps he's not really

ready, he's only been on the campaign trail for a few weeks while romney has been running for five years. so i think some republicans are going to be reassessing rick perry after this. >> byron, thanks for that, byron york's input. karl rove is on deck in a couple of minutes, we'll get his take as well. martha. thank you byron. martha: everybody was watching this debate and reacting to it. take a listen to frank luntz's pollster group and what they had to say about mitt romney's performance in particular, watch this. >> perry was such a waffler and he looked presidential. >> i thought he was reaganesque, he spoke with great specificity. >> he gave specific answers, i thought he was confident. >> i peroto i thought perry was too defensive, he spent too much time fighting with romney instead of talking about policy. >> i'm concerned about what he did with health care in massachusetts, but he did say that one of his first things out the gate would be to repeal omabacare, and so that made me feel better about where he stood on the

issue. >> we're looking for accountability and he has said i made mistakes and am willing to take responsibility for them and this is what i would have different differently. this is what i want in a president. martha: it's always fascinate to go hear what peoples' immediate responses are to the candidates like that and frank luntz said he felt that it was romney's best showing to date so it's stacking up to be a positive night for mitt romney. bill: you think about orlando and wonder whether this determines whether somebody steps down. the the next debate comes in october. in the for example recent polling, this is how they stack up. note, this was done before the debate, rick perry, 29 percent, romney, 22 percent, michele bachmann and ron paul, 8 percent of the vote in our fox polling. martha: what do you think as you look at all this, who won last night's debate in your opinion? log on to our website, foxnews.com/"america's newsroom", vote, and you can take a look at what other peoples' reactions to the big debate last night was -- last night was.

very interesting this is getting, right? all right, not so much fun to sort of think about and debate is this, as we wait for the option bell to get underway, those numbers are just spinning out of control because the market is not open yet and we're waiting for nup steep selloff, folks. futures are down, pretty much across the board, the latest market meltdown was $1.1 trillion in market cap. just over the last two days. that has sparked the fears and the discussion that we are either in a double-dip recession already, or that we're headed for one, and a lot of economic pain out there, especially across europe this morning. stuart varney of the fox business network and host of varney & company joins me now. stuart, you have communicated to me earlier this morning, today, thought we were going to be okay, and now due to this news out of greece t. looks rough. >> three hours ago it looked like we might have stability, two hours ago we got knews from greece and that sent the american stocks way down, they've

come back a little but when the market opens it will probably open lower again. here's the news from greece, two government newspapers reported this morning that at a closed door meeting of the greek cabinet, the prime minister suggested that one possible fix for greece will be for it to default on its loans and pay only 50 cents on every dollar owed. immediately, american stock prices went down, so, too, did the price of gold and gold has stayed down. it's still down $50 an ounce. so this morning, morseling to be expected, and this time, it's europe that's the cause. martha: it's very interesting to me, stuart, because as you point out, everybody has known for quite some time that greece is in a lot of trouble. >> yes. martha: at some point, greece is going to have to come forward with a plan in terms of what they can do on the dollar, and at that point it would seem to me there will be some kind of reality check across the board in terms of how much they can actually pay on the dollar and where we go from there and who might lend them the money to do so i they have a plan. >> precisely.

everybody knows they cannot repay the debt they've run up, so how big a hair cut are they going to impose on the people who lent them the money? at the moment the suggestion is 50 cents on the dollar. well, that ripples through the rest of europe. what happens if other shaky european countries also go for we'll pay you 50 cents on the dollar? >> the losses to the tkhrafrpbgs in europe and -- it the banks in europe and in america add up to hundreds of billions of dollars, if not trillions. big loss. martha: we'll watch the impact on the u.s. markets today. thank you very much, stuart varney. we'll watch for him on varney & co. bill: we'll be here, talking about it. stu is out there, too. martha: your dad may be watching, perform hemmer! keep your priorities straight this morning. bill: that's funny. yesterday alone, the markets lost $500 billion in value. thursday's drop, fifth largest this year, a combined 675 points over two days. that is just staggering.

the largest since november of 2008, three years ago, and on the year the dow was off more than 16 percent from its closing high, that was back in april, around 12,800. some say bear market, we're there. martha: boy, you know, we'll see what happens. we've got about 20 minutes before the market opens up, but it is looking starkly lower this morning, and that is just some of the stuff we're keeping on top of for you today in "america's newsroom", and also, there is this. pilots, beware, you've got that dangerous space junk, the size of a bus, as you've been hearing throughout the course of this week, spiralling towards earth and supposed to arrive sometime today. bill: how about that? >> martha: we'll tell you where they think it might land. that's kind of a scary thought. bill will also solyndra in the hot seat on the hill. the executives will take questions from lawmakers but will they answer those questions? we await. martha: karl rove on deck with his first reaction to last night's debate and all of the candidates' digs on president obama. >> my next door neighbor's

two dogs have created more shovel-ready jobs than this current administration.

martha: well, the fbi is investigating some serious markings found on southwest airlines jets. suspicious graffiti said to either look like arab writing or symbols, the markings began appearing on the underbellies of the 737s several months ago, southwest started to conduct an internal investigation but they say that they believe the scrawling is simply vandalism and is not a security threat which had been a bit of a concern. at least one aviation consultant says that southwest clearly needs to ramp up the protection of their airplanes. >> a lack of security, for whatever reason, in these areas, and it's a serious problem, and it needs to be rectified. martha: both the tsa and the fbi are working with southwest to figure out who

is responsible for this. bill: a little mystery out there, huh? all right, back to the debate last night. texas governor rick perry was hit for his views on immigration and social security and the economy. here he is on his relationship with former president and the former governor of texas, george w. bush: >> we had a great rapport. i talked to the president from time to time, calling his birthday, wishing him happy birthday, talked to him on a relatively regular basis. i highly respect the president, and his public service. bill: well, here is man who knows both men very well and his first reaction to the fox debate last night, karl rove good morning to you, former senior adviser and deputy chief of staff for president bush and fox news contributor down in austin. how you doing today? good morning. >> i'm doing great! it was a good debate. bill: a lot of people are wondering about the strength of that relationship. you're welcome to go there if you want. but i just want it in a generic sense here, how did you score this debate last

night, was there a clear winner? >> well, when you have nine people on a stage, you never have a clear winner. there are winners, there are people who held their own and there are people who had a bad night. i think there were about four people who had a good night: romney was steady and solid, landed some good shots and who knew he had a sense of humor, rick santorum got the better of perry in the exchange on immigration and again, he's been a pretty g. consistent performer in these debates and including foreign affairs, herman cain had the best personal moment when he talked about his struggle to overcome cancer and how he felt this was reflective on our health care system and particularly his opposition to omabacare and newt gingrich always comes across as the most knowledgable guy on the stage. bachmann needed a break and didn't, but on the other hand, she stood her ground on the hpv and avoided admitting what everybody knows which is she made a mistake in alleging that the hpv vaccine causes mental

retardation, and the rest of -- governor perry didn't break through last night. he's had a so-so performance. he started off strong, he had a good start at the beginning, with the question on the texas economy, but you know, as one observer put it, about a minute, 42, he begins to fade. some other wag suggested on national review online that maybe governor romney should insist on a 3-hour debate since the longer it goes, the more problematic it gets for perry. bill: a number of people were writing about that he did not finish strong in the second half and again last night -- that's a generic question. now specific: about this relationship with the former president, he mentioned that he disagreed with him on medicare part d, i think he called it medicaid last night, and he disagreed with no child left behind. is this a relationship that dogs him or is this something that can be clarified for these primary voters to try and figure out on their own? >> look, these two men have a good personal relationship, always have and always will.

they're friend. -- they're friends. i don't think that was the problem for governor perry last night. he was asked the question were you different and he identified two appears, prescription part d. the difficulty there is two-fold. minor difficulty is look, that passed the house with 204 republican votes and 25 republicans opposed, passed the senate with 42 republicans in favor, nine opposed. no child left behind passed the house 186-35 among republicans in the senate, 43-6 so perry is on wrong side of that equation, at least at the time that it passed. but here's the more problematic thing. he said st night he was very vocal on medicare part d and that he was vocal in his opposition to no child left behind. i frankly with all due respect to the governor don't remember that. i hope that he didn't create another -- last night he had one of his best moments was when he talked about how he was lobbied by a 31-year-old woman with cancer, in support of the hpv decision. well, jonathan karl of abc news has already pointed out that he met with the woman

after he signed the order, she couldn't lobby him to sign it. he had already signed it. i suspect there are people at the various news organizations today doing lexus-nexus searches to find out if governor perry was vocal about medicare pafplt tk-rt and vocal in his opposition to no child left behind. >> are you saying he was inaccurate last night, was he rearranging the facts on that issue? >> look, he said he was very vocal. i don't remember him being vocal, i don't remember him being in opposition to it. granted, i don't have perfect knowledge, but i think i'd remember if the governor of texas -- in fact i think we'd all remember if the governor of texas stood up and attacked the republican president, who was his predecessor, no trying to pass medicare part d. so you know, he could say look, i disagreed with his decision on these things, but when you say i was very vocal in my opposition to medicare part d, and i was vocal in my opposition to no child left behind, you've now set a bar of evidence that's going to probably cause reporters to go out

there and take a look. bill: on the back scene, took it's clear he had a relationship and close relationship with this woman but the timeline needs to be sorted out. that is murky for the moment. i just want to get to this final point because charles krauthammer last night said he is still the rookie in the field and i keep coming back to why do these candidates live in iowa and new hampshire, they take the same question 40 different ways so they get the practice and rehearse their answer, so when it comes to prime time, they're effective. now, he has not had that just yet. because he's the newcomer to the race. >> yes. bill: can he sort that out in your view? >> sure. sure he k first of all, let me say, even going and doing a lot of town hall meetings helps prepare you for the debate, but the best thing to help you practice for big debates like this is to have you done -- having done a lot in the past. look, in 1998 when governor bush was running for reelection, he had one debate. in retrospect, that was a

big debate because there weren't a lot of presidential debates in the primary necessary 1998 and 2000 but bush didn't fare particularly well in some of them because he didn't have the experience and done that before. >> bill: you need that time. >> you need that experience. bill: i'm out of time. thank you, okay? his first reaction to our debate last night. karl rove from washington, thank you. martha: some may be wondering who the man on the very far left side of the stage was last night but gary johnson ended up shaking things up and had the best line of the night. he joins us next. bill: the fate of this american student convicted of murder overseas, amanda knox, walking into court today for the final stage of her appeal. could she end up walking free?

bill: here we tkpwoerbgs 24 minutes past the hour now, we're awaiting a vote in the senate, but it faces trouble, majority leader harry reid promise thank democrats will block that pressure. >> to the border, two federal agents opening fire on a man that pulled a fake handgun on them and tried to run away from the agents trying question him. hospitals across the country facing a shortage of life saving medications, reports finding that hospitals are forced to buy the medicine from secondary suppliers at marked up prices. twenty-five minutes now past the hour. martha. martha: all right, thank you, bill. so another republican presidential hopeful, making his appearance in the national gop debate last night, gary johnson, making a big splash last night and he definitely got the biggest laugh of the night. take a look: >> my next door neighbor's

two dogs have created more shovel ready jobs than this current administration. >> throughout the entire federal tax system, replace -- throw out the entire tax system, replace it with a fair tax, a consumption tax, that by all mer urplts is just that, it's fair, it does away with corporate income tax. if that doesn't create tens of millions of jobs in this country, i don't know what does. martha: republican presidential candidate and former new mexico governor gary johnson joins us now. good morning, governor, good to have you with us today. >> martha, great to be with you here this morning. martha: how did you feel it went last night for you? >> you know, i have a 17- minute full monty speech about what i'm all about and last night i got to deliver about two minutes of that, but i was really pleased with the two minutes i got and i was really grateful for the opportunity to be on stage.

martha: and the joke got a great response. it was definitely one of the highlights of the evening, everybody talked about it. there is some talk this morning that the joke came from rush limbaugh. what do you say to that? >> well, i got e-mails yesterday from everybody i know giving me suggestions on what i should or shouldn't say, and included in those e-mails was an e-mail from the leading radio talk show host in new mexico on a.m. radio who said that for two days, he had conducted a call-in, let's give gary some zingers that he might use in the debate, so this was among a list of 14 zingers that were sent to me, apparently by call-ins to that show. so i think it was kind of a new mexico -- very collective new mexico effort that gave me that line. martha: well, in any event, you landed it evel. it was a good delivery and

it got a lot of attention and a lot of laughs, so good for you on that. talk to me a little about some more substantive elements of what you talked about last night. i want to play a little bit of you from last evening and get your response and add on to it a little bit for us. let's listen to this: >> i think the biggest threat to our national security is the fact that we're bankrupt. so i am promising to submit a balanced budget to congress in the year 2013, and included in that is a 43 percent reduction in military spending. martha: that's a big reduction in military spending. i know that you have done a lot of cost cutting, you did a lot of cost cutting as mexico governor, you did a lot of vetoing of bills, which you got a lot of credit for that. 43ercent reduction in defense spending? how would you do that? >> the operative word or operative question is can we provide a strong national

defense for this country and cut spending by 43 percent. the operative word is defense and yes, we can, but we can't be on offense and we can't continue to nation build. i advocate getting out of iraq and afghanistan tomorrow and i'm not operating in a vacuum here, martha. i was on a conference call a couple of weeks ago with about five guys who do this for a living, and we talked about it on a line by line basis. it's military personnel, it's the bureaucratic support staff to go along with those in uniform, it's research and development, not compromising the notion that we should be vigilant against military threats. it's nuclear warheads. you know, do we really need to blow up the world nine times, or might five times be enough? and i've lived my entire life looking at that. so i'm promising to submit a balanced budget to congress

as president of the united states, and that means reducing government spending by 43 percent. i think we're on the verge of a monetary collapse unless we do this and russia is the example of a monetary collapse. martha: governor gary johnson, former governor of new mexico, good to have you here today, sir. you've obviously struggled in the polls and we're going to look forward to seeing the new numbers, we'll see if you registered with the folks last night. thank you very much, sir, good to talk to you. >> great, thank you for having me on. all right, bye. bill: few precious seconds away from the opening bell on wall street. martha: can't wait. bill: can't you? also, rick perry, did he stumble on the issue of immigration? we'll play the clip and you can decide, right here. also martha? >> martha: if the dow weren't bad enough, large pieces of metal are falling from the sky as well. we're tracking it, though, 6-tons of space junk, with no motor, no nothing, to move it from one place to another. bill: like an 18 wheeler

headed this way. martha: kind of a time capsule of sorts. if the refrigerator lands in the front yard, we'll see what's in it! we'll be right back.

bill: we've got some serious space junk barreling toward earth. don't know whether to look up or look down, nasa predict be a satellite will hit the planet possibly today. so we wonder whether or not you should worry. >> the chance of getting in

a car wreck today is one in 16. so this isn't really much to worry about. bill: that's what she said, right? kris gutierrez, live at the johnson space center in houston, where is this headed, kris? >> >> reporter: boy f. that doesn't make you feel better, i don't know what will. nasa is still reporting this satellite will not enter the atmosphere in north america so the u.s. is still clear but the the timing has changed a bit from sometime this afternoon to possibly sometime early evening now but remember, bill, take a look here, this satellite is the size of a school bus but when it reenters the earth's atmosphere somewhere it's expected to break up into 26 different chunks of stainless steel and titanium, the smallest is 10 pounds, the largest chunk, 300 pounds, and the debris field will stretch some 500 miles. bill: how does this satellite compare with the last big item that came down, what was it, the sky lab 30 years ago, is it comparable? >> the sky lab was in 1979.

not really. when you think about this current satellite, it weighs .bout 6 tons, the size of a -- of a school bus. sky lab broke apart over australia and fortunately nobody was injured but nasa also points out we have a lot of space debris that enters the earth's atmosphere every day but it's so small it usually burns up and disintegrates, and obviously, this satellite is far more uncommon. bill: get your cameras ready to rue -- to viewers at home, we are tracking this, go to fox news.cole and we will follow that in real time. martha: all right. let's get back to our top story this morning, the republican presidential debate, security was a major topic, as was immigration last night. here is a sort of animated back and forth on

immigration between rick perry and rick santorum. >> you put aviation assets in the ground. >> no, it's not. it's not -- >> the federal government has not eptkpwaeuplgd in this at all. when i'm president of the united states, i promise you one thing, we will put the assets on the ground, the boots on the ground, the aviation assets on the ground, and we will stop illegal immigration, we will stop the drug cartels, and we will make america secure. martha: all right. that was a very interesting moment last night. here now is steve hayes, senior writer for the weekly standard and fox news contributor. good morning to stkpwhraou hey martha. martha: hey. obviously, immigration, everybody watches rick perry closely on this issue because he's had the most experience of it with any of candidates, he deals with it every day on the texas border. how do you think he fared in that exchange? >> well, i think -- there were two exchanges on immigration and that one, i think rick santorum got the better of him, because, he was more forceful and santorum made a case based

on upon his experience of what's happening in texas that perry hasn't been as tough on immigration as many people in the republican primary electorate would like him to be. in the other exchange which involves a texas state level dream act, providing school in-state tuition for the children of illegal immigrants, i think perry had a good case to make. he made it reasonably well at first, but then mitt romney came back with a much stronger response, and i think perry missed an opportunity to go back at romney and further clarify his position. martha: yeah, that was the moment when you talked about, you know, having a heart, and rick santorum came back at him in that moment with a fairly effective comeback as well, i thought. let's just play a little bit of this. we have -- okay. i don't have it yet. there was another moment i want to talk about and if we can get it on, i'll let you know, steve. it was in response to bret's question, which was the 3:00 in the "morning call" comes in, and you find out that

the taliban, the pakistani taliban, has commandeered control of nuclear weapons. what do you do, and rick perry responded to that in a somewhat kind of meandering way. he started talking about allies, then mentioned the haqqani network, then he went on from there to talk about our ethics team, lack of an ethics team. do we have it guys? listen to this, steve, we'll get your reaction on the other side. >> okay, great. >> just yesterday, we found out through admiral mullen that haqqani has been involved with a terrorist group directly -- directly associated with the pakistani country, so to have a relationship with india, to make sure that india knows that they are an ally of the united states, for instance, whe we had the opportunity to sell india the upgraded f-16 the, we chose not to do that. we did the same thing with taiwan. the point is, our allies need to understand -- >> martha: all right, we can

hear the end of that trailing off. i guess the question is, steve, what did rick perry reveal in that about what he does or does not understand about the region? >> yeah, i mean, i think the most charitable description of that exchange from rick perry is inho here -- incoherent. it didn't make sense, and you get the sense that he was prepped about this issue, he knew there would likely be a pakistan question coming and he heard pakistan and immediately thought haqqani network, that's what i've been hearing in my debate prep, but it wasn't answering the question. if you are a conservative, looking for a candidate or possible supporter of rick perry, the one thing that bothers you about that answer, rick perry's selling point is his authenticity, the fact that he's a true conservative, that his instincts are right on foreign policy, on domestic policy, he's instinctively conservative and what we saw in that answer was the opposite of that, somebody who's offered what was -- if he had delivered it well would have been a very calculated answer about alliances and relationships, and as rick santorum pointed out shortly after that,

that's the last thing you want to be concerned about at that 3:00 a.m. call, if the taliban has nuclear weapons, you're not worried about consulting your allies at that point, you're worried about stopping the threat. martha: exactly. rick santorum was asked a different question and he took that opportunity to interject in that question that he wasn't sure that the previous one had been answered well enough by rick perry. so i thought that was an interesting moment as well. rick santorum came on fairly strong last night. how much good can he do himself at this stage of the game and do you think that he has some sticking power in all of this, steve? >> candidly, i don't think he can do himself much good. i agree with you, i thought he had a good debate. in fact i would argue if you go back and look at the performances on substances over the past five debates, rick santorum has probably given as good a performance as anything, newt gingrich had a couple of strong ones and mitt romney had a couple of strong ones, including last night, but rick santorum, there's no real chance that he's going to mount a surge that we're

going to see rick santorum competing with rick perry and mitt romney in the next several weeks. martha: it does appear that he'll leave a lasting impression as somebody knowledgable on all of these images and speak to them in a really nimble way. we'll see where that gets him. thank you very much, steve hayes. >> thank you. bill: want to talk about immigration, social security, and the economy in a moment. the dow is inking like a stone. these latest losses, do they signal now a double-dip recession? our man on money, neil cavuto, will tell us what's up on that. off 75 points already. and the frontrunners, who scored a body blow? did anyone? >> you'd better find that rick perry and get him to stop saying that. >> i think americans don't know sometimes which mitt romney they're dealing with. >> i use the same term again, nice try.

bill: there on point last night, these rivals on attack, rick perry, mitt

romney battling for that republican nomination and last night during our debate they did not disappoint, like this exchange: >> he was for race to the top, he is for omabacare, and now he's against it. i mean, we'll wait until tomorrow, and see which mitt romney we're really talking to tonight. >> governor romney? >> i'll use the same term again, nice try. governor, i wrote a book two years ago, and i laid out in that book what my views are on a wide range of issues. i'm a conservative businessman. i haven't spent my life in politics. i spent my life in business. i know how jobs come, how jobs go. my positions are laid out in that book. i stand by them. governor perry, you wrote a book six months ago, you're already retreating from the positions that were in that book. >> not an inch, sir. bill: that was just a small sample from last night. we are pleased to have mark minor, national press secretary for rick perry's campaign down in orlando.

and andrea soll, press secretary for governor romney out of boston. good morning to you. i want to start, your man is on top of the polling, where was perry the most effective last night? >> well, clearly today after the debate, we still don't know where mitt romney is, whether it's on omabacare, whether it's on social security, whether it's on race to the top, where in new hampshire -- new hampshire, he said one thing and came to florida and said something else. he clearly has a pattern of saying anything and changing his position quite often. bill: andrea? is mitt romney -- >> that's absolutely incorrect. first of all, what we saw last night, and what we've seen in the past five debates is that governor romney is the clear choice to be able to turn this economy around and create jobs. but governor romney, as he said in the debate, he wrote down in his book what his vision for the country is, and what governor perry wrote in his book was that he, that -- he thinks that social security is a failure, then went on a media tour and said it

shouldn't be provided as a federal entitlement program. so what we have still yet to hear is how that would work at a state level, how would a state like florida afford social security for its residents. and i think that those are questions that they continue to dodge, and the american people have a right to know. bill: and they will get another shot at this in mid october, i think october 11th is the next republican debate. in other words, there was a lot of talk last night about immigration, illegal immigration, border security. but i was most curious to find out which candidate would actually go after barack obama the most effectively. mark, where do you think rick perry scored a point on that last night? >> it's clear the difference in this race between governor perry, who is a true conservative, knows he's running in a republican primary, versus mitt romney who made his health care plan exactly like omabacare, so they have more in common certainly than governor perry does with presint obama. there's a clear choice with candidates in this primary, someone like mitt romney who wrote in one part of the

book that romneycare is good, he rewrote the book in soft cover and changed it. so it is a very clear distinction in this race between someone who is conservative and someone like mitt romney who changes position, is more in like with barack obama. bill: andrea, is that true? >> no, if i can jump in, first off on the immigration point, governor romney vetoes on in-state tuition bill for illegal immigrants and last night we saw governor perry double down on that, he thinks that an illegal ilgrant should pay less than someone coming from, say, my niece in georgia if she wanted to go to the university of texas, so i think we're talking about who's closest to president obama on illegal imgreg, it's very clear that that's -- >> bill: i got one moment here. hang on one moment. did he change his book or not andrea? >> look, there are updates made to books between the hard cover -- >> bill: so he did. >> in paperback edigs all the time. look, when governor romy -- romney wrote his book in 2009 the estimateless hadn't

passed, omabacare hadn't passed so changes are made for the climate, governor romney wrote about the government option, it wasn't included in omabacare when the paperback edition came out. those changes are reflected in the book. if the charge is that governor romney said that the massachusetts health care plan should be a plan that's instituted at a federal level, that's patently false. he even ran for president in 2008 on the exact same thing and gave speeches saying that that should not be it for the nation. bill: i apologize for inter -- interrupting you, i know it's rude. mark, i promise you more time next time around. there's a lot of things we have to go through and we will together. thank you, the cue is going to cut us off. martha:t was one of the most thought provoking questions of the night, brought out some very interesting answers. watch. >> i don't know how you would do this, but if you could take herman cain and

mate him up with newt gingrich, i think you would have a couple of really interesting twice to work with! >> martha: that was quite a moment, right? we've got everybody's v.p. picks across the group here. we'll be right back.

bill the father in law of missing utah mother susan powell has been arrested. arrested in washington state. stephen powell, charged with voyeurism and possession of child pornography. authorities saying they found thousands of imamounts of females being videotaped without their knowledge and among them, his daughter-in-law, susan. >> some pictures of her, of susan, that were also taken without her knowledge. it looked like they were secretly taken. and inappropriate. bill: susan powell vanished

in 2009, her husband is the the only person of interest named in this case and he has never been charged. martha: all right. how about this case? there are closing arguments in the appeals case of american college student amanda knox, convicted of murder two years ago, she's now serve ago 26 year sentence in an italian prison, court appointed experts say the original investigation involved more than 50 errors. agreeing burke is streaming live from rome. greg, obviously this is a very tense moment for amanda knox. >> reporter: martha, that's right. you know, it's a very tense moment for everyone in that courtroom to tell you the truth because this really is the beginning of the end, the prosecution, summing up their case today, also, the judge setting the calendar. it looks like we will get a verdict around october 3rd, possibly on monday, october 3rd. now, the prosecution, there has been so much debate about this, and what has changed from the original trial, the prosecution asking the jury today to

forget the media hoopla, to look at all the evidence, not only the contested dna evidence, also the jury getting a behind the doors, closed door scene of the crime scene itself, something i don't think we want to see. it was awfully, awfully gory that night in 2007, when meredith kircher was murdered. martha: what are the chances do you think of her getting off after all this time? >> reporter: well, certainly martha, things are looking a lot better for amanda for her one-time boyfriend, and that's because some of the key evidence, dna, has certainly been called into question, if not outright discredited, however, there is a lot of strange behavior on amanda's part that has to be looked into, that the jury will be looking into, in fact that she accused somebody who was innocent of murder, it's going to have to be answered but things are pwr-g hraor -- are looking better for

her. bill: target rick perry. how did the others do last night? we're going to recap and get the latest reaction out of washington for what went down in orlando. martha. martha: plus, they're fareless in the face of violent weather. a sneak preview of the new season of storm chasers. >> you can hear the roar, this thing is an extremely violent torn aid oefplt we're trying to get people out of here. i've never seen a tornado like this before in my life! get out of the way! t! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com.

delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it.

martha: we are hitting the rewind tape a bit and taking a look at last night. nine candidates were out there for the republican nomination, squaring off in orlando, florida n a very energized, animated, really fun sometimes kind of evening last night as we watched all of this roll out. a lot of the sort of pointed questions were put by other case towards rick perry.

nearly all of his opponents tried to knock him off of his feet because, of course, he's the front runner. that's the way it goes. brand new hour of "america's newsroom," we are so glad to have you with us. hello, bill hemmer. bill: good morning, martha. martha: doing well. bill: governor perry's calling himself a pinata, remember that? facing criticism from all sides last night. martha: who emerged last night? who sort of shrunk a little bit from the scene, who's emerging as a serious contender aside from perry and romney? >> governor perry made a decision where he gave parental right toss a big -- rights to a big drug company. that big drug company gave him campaign contributions and hired his former chief of staff to lobby him to benefit the big drug company. that's what was wrong with that picture. >> he gave a speech in 2001 where he talked about buy

national health insurance between mexico and texas. i mean, i don't even think barack obama would be for buy national health insurance. >> there's a rick perry out there that's saying, almost a quote, it says that the federal government shouldn't be in the pension business, that it's unconstitutional. unconstitutional, and it should be returned to the states. so you better find that rick perry and get him to stop saying that. [laughter] >> well, i feel pretty normal getting criticized by these folks. [laughter] martha: yep, we saw a lot of that last night. shannon bream joins us live in orlando. so the two front runners seemed to be using some similar strategies to go at each other last night. shannon, how did that work out? is. >> reporter: it's interesting, because they both were pointing the finger at each other saying the other one was doing a flip-flop on some major issues. they both accused the ore of presenting different versions of themselves to the voters and accusing each other last night of, you know, playing to the base, playing to different people based on, you know,

changing their positions on who they need today appeal to. you had a little bit of this, but here's romney going after perry on that point. >> what you said on your interviews following the book, so i don't know, there's a rick perry out there that's saying almost a quote, it says that the federal government shouldn't be in the pension business, that it's unconstitutional. unconstitutional, and it should be returned to the states. so you better find that rick perry and get him to stop saying that. [laughter] now, my own -- [applause] >> reporter: it was certainly a line that played well with the crowd here last night. a lot of sparring early and often from those two, ma that. martha: rick perry came right back at it, didn't he? >> reporter: he did, absolutely. the interesting thing is, both of those front runners have written books, and when you do that, you have things in print that every one of your opponents is going to read through and try to find ways to use against you. for perry it was going after romneycare.

take a listen to that exchange. >> hour hard copy book, you said it was exactly what the american people needed to have, that romneycare given to them as you had in massachusetts. then this your paperback you took that line out. so speaking of not getting it straight in your book, sir -- [cheers and applause] >> reporter: and, of course, with all those exchanges going on last night, it did leave the other candidates on the stage looking for attention, and some of them expressed frustration when i talked to them after the debate saying, of course, they want to have more time in the spotlight. they don't want this to now be settled as just a two-man race. by the way, one of the most emotional moments was to herman cain surviving stage four cancer, a lot of folks admire him, and he brings a great sense of humor to the stage in all of these debates, martha. martha: yeah, he did very well. i heard he told his handlers, you know, i don't want to work on anything the last couple of days before i go out there, and

i just want to have a clear head and go in there. that seemed to work very well last night. >> reporter: yeah, he was calm. martha: great job last night, good to see you this morning. thank you. bill: president obama catching his fair share of flak from the others. here's mitt romney on that. >> let me tell you the title that i want to hear said about president obama. and that is, former president barack obama. [cheers and applause] that's what i want tohear. let me tell you this, what president obama is a big-spending liberal, and he takes his political inspiration from europe and from the socialist democrats in europe. guess what? europe isn't working in europe. it's not going to work here. i love this country. i spent my life in the private sector, not in government. i only spent be four years as a governor. i didn't inhale. bill: always comes back. congresswoman michele bachmann wasting no time getting in many on the action, too, saying the president has not even, quote,

hit rock bottom yet. >> every four years conservatives are told that we have to settle, and it's anybody but obama, that's what we're hearing this year. of i don't think that's true. i think there's any year president obama has the lowest public approval ratings of any president in modern times. he hasn't gone to the basement yet. it'll be a lot lower than what it is now. that's why we need to choose a candidate who represents conservatives and constitutional conservative positions. bill: so we are asking you, who do you think won the fox news/google debate last night? foxnews.com/"america's newsroom." we have all the candidates listed there. 3,000 votes in about an hour. 34% saying ron paul was the winner, you can still weigh in. it's not scientific, but tell us what you think. we'd like to get a measure of what you're thinking at home last night. also what you watched this and how you're reacting today. martha: it was a fun night. bibill yeah.

martha: went very, very well. bill: right on. now there's this dead on arrival, that's senate majority leader harry reid's promise for a spending bill the house passed last night setting the stage for a possible government shutdown in about a week's time, but with a weeklong recess looming, republicans who control the house don't think the senate has much of a choice. >> i really don't think there's going to be a government shutdown, i don't think there's folks in the senate or the house that want to do that. but there also is not the desire to face the core problem that the federal government's getting too large, borrowing too much money and, fundamentally, that's how you end up with $15 trillion in debt without a plan to pay that off. bill: so a little bit of drama, a little bit of mystery. molly henneberg's watching it live in d.c. will the senate vote on the house version today? what's expected to take place? >> reporter: top senate democrat harry reid needs 51 votes to table or kill the house version of the bill, and he likely will have them. democrats don't like the house

bill and are preparing for a showdown with the republican-controlled house. >> this is not a high school game of i gotcha. we're all willing to be reasonable, but we're not willing to vote unreasonably. >> reporter: reid and other senate democrats want more than the $3.7 billion in the house bill for victim of hurricane irene and other disasters, and they don't like the $1.5 billion in cuts to federal clean energy loan program that is the house republican leadership put in the bill in order to get fiscal conservatives to support it. bill: so is this talk of a shutdown s that bluster, is that talk, or is it more likely to happen now, molly? >> reporter: well, here's what makes that scenario more complicated or interesting really. the house is set to recess around noon today, and both house gop speaker john boehner and be majority leader eric cantor have said the house did its job, passed a bill that will fund the government through october 18th, and they will be

out next week. bill: we will watch it from here. molly henneberg in washington. martha: we await the palestinian president to speak at the united nations today. he is expected to ask the united nations to recognize a palestinian state in the proceedings in the u.n. in the future. so leland vittert watching the situation live from the west bank. what is it like there right now, leland? >> reporter: good morning, martha. it has gotten pretty violent out here. it started with rocks and a little bit of tear gas, and now it seems the israeli front line has moved up. we've seen an awful lot of rubber bullets being fired, the possibility of live ammunition, though we haven't been able to determine that. if you look farther up the street, you're going to see a bunch of kids on the palestinian side, it's behind that building where all the rocks are coming

out of, thrown at the israeli soldiers. president abbas has asked for no violent protests of any type. that certainly is not what's been happening here. there's a large rally planned for later tonight during the president's speech, and we also heard there'll be even more demonstrators and rock throwers coming down here according to the israelis. there's been a lot of incoming rocks from where we are. another one of the rubber bullets going off. the israelis are using a whole lot of stun grenades. the israelis have spent a huge amount of time preparing for this. one of their old sniper positions over there, and they've spent millions of dollars in a lot of riot gear and nonlethal weapons they've been trying to use here to keep the amount of violence down. clearly, though, the fear is over the coming weeks and months as frustration grows over that coming u.s. veto is you would not have a situation where you

could remain -- [inaudible] and things get even more violent, and you hear even more gunshots like we're having here. back to you in new york. martha: obviously, that is a very chaotic situation. we could hear about half of what leland was saying, but what we could hear in the background told so much as well. obviously, a very fluid situation on the ground in the west bank. bill: really picked up this week too. so they were loaned more than half a billion dollars in tax money, all of it went down the drain. belly up less than two years later. today executives from solyndra are called on the carpet on capitol hill, and phil gingrey was in that hearing. what questions does he want answered? we'll find out when we talk to him live in a moment. martha: and it is the busiest border crossing in the country. the pedestrian walkway was just shut down because of a shooting there. who border agents opened fire on and why. plus -- >> i'd like to report a very large tornado on the ground in southeast mississippi county. there are large chunks of debris

getting thrown up high into the air. of we've called into 911 twice, and they're aware of this thing on the ground. very dancer. bill: 2011 was historic for storms like these. the storm chaisers are back at it, you'll meet one of them in a moment here live in "america's newsroom." >> i've never heard a tornado roar like thatve. call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

we're off to a good start. but now it'time to go to the next level. so let's do a little detective work. pick up what we need. roll out... caulk...and install. and pretty soon, we're seeing the fruits of our labor right there at our bottom line. more saving. moreoing. that's the power of the home depot. owens corning ecotouch attic insulation is only $9.97 a roll. it's the master of all machines. so powerful, anything you download on your computer is available on your droid bionic, instantly, wirelessly, at verizon 4g lte speed. never sync with a cord again.

the droid bionic by motorola. control it and you control everything.

bill: there's been some gunfire on the u.s./mexican border, agents there opened fire on an unidentified perp. it happened at the pedestrian walkway, and officials not allowing any pedestrian travel into the country until further be notice. about 7:15 local time. martha: all right. another big story in the news today, the executives from that failed solar firm that, basically, burned through half a billion dollars in u.s. tax money called on the carpet today in the nation's capital. it has been quite a scene that has unfolded down there as we

speak this morning. two executives from the company just questioned about what happened to the $535 million in federal loans that this company got. the problem is that both of those executives, as we anticipated, took the fifth amendment, okay? is other not talking. lawmakers are asking their questions anyway right now, here is a piece of it. >> mr. chairman, i have tremendous respect for this subcommittee and the important oversight role that it plays. i, as much as i wish to be able to answer the members' questions, i have been advised by my counsel that is the better course for me to assert my constitutional right to decline to answer questions under the fifth amendment. >> mr. chairman, on the advice of my town r counsel, i must invoke the privilege afforded by the fifth amendment to the u.s. constitution, and i respectfully decline to an any questions put to me by this committee and subcommittee. martha: what a ride it's been for this company over the past couple of months. just a short while ago the

employees there thought everything was just fine, now you've got these two executives sitting before this committee, and they have just adjourned, and that is why we have congressman phil gingrey with us, georgia republican, who sits on the committee. congressman, good good morning to you. department get too much information -- didn't get too much information out of these folks this morning. >> good morning. no, martha, we didn't. what they didn't say was that on the grounds that my statements might self-incriminate me and, indeed, i think they would. it's a shame that they would not answer the questions that are ongoing right now. i'll go back to the committee and, hopefully, get a chance to ask them a question. but i know what the response will be. they're stonewalling, of course, and they know that they, indeed, would self-incriminate themselves. martha: there's so much that we need to know in this story, and, obviously, in many ways -- i heard judge napolitano talking about in this morning, mostjn@q attorneys would advise them they

should not speak at this time because the fbi raided their offices, took all the documents, their hard drives. so there's a lot of information that's going to come out about this. in essence, it's not that surprising they're not talking at this point. >> you're absolutely right, martha. they're following attorneys' advice, and we all understand that. we know the drill. but we get an opportunity, as i did a few moments ago in our opening statement, to propjut to them in the two minutes allotted to us the questions that we would like to have answered if they would answer like why was this loan of the taxpayer money, the $500 billion, half a billion dollars, subordinated to a second loan from the private sector when the energy committee loan program strictly prohibits that? how were they able to do that? are e-mails that exist that i'dicate there were people in the administration who were concerned about this del and whether or not it should go through. so that, clearly, you know, they're going to want to find ouá, i imagine you want to find

out what the company knew and what they claim they already -when all this was going down. >> well, absolutely. and as recent as two months ago they said everything is hunky-dory, everything is fine, and then all of a sudden at the end of august they declare bankruptcy. and, you know, the democrats on the committee are trying to say, well, both the bush administration and the obama administration missed some important details and made a mistake here. the bush administration officials in the loan oversight cmmittee of department of energy recommended that we end negotiation with solyndra, and about three weeks later after obama was inaugurated, all of a sudden, the program gets back on fast track. you know, the same information, just a different administr(urjjy martha: and that's one of the big questions here in my mind is why when a prior administration had just decidd to shelf a deal, decided it wasn't a good deal to go through, why the

quick action in the early weeks of an administration would they decide to reverse that decision? and i know you'll be trying to get the answers to that as well, right? >> absolutely. these people were cpreer employees of the department of energy, so there was no political changeover from one administration. so the very same people. obviously, march, they were under tremendous pressure from the office of management and budget and the white house which had already scheduled a big press event touting the energy and how this was the very first program that they had approved for this gigantic loan. they didn't want to have to bp(i away from that. martha: understood. congressman gingrey, thank you very much for stepping out of that hearing and talking with us this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you, martha. right now, hzw lowill you go, the markets losing hundreds of millions ofxdollars in value. double dip? neil cavuto will tell us what's going on in this crazy world of money. martha: two scoops of ice cream. [laughter] all right, so, plus, it made a

very lively question last night at the republican debate, this one -- >> if we had to choose one of your opponents on the stage tonight to be your running in@ the 2012 election, who would you choose and why, and why would this person help you make the country better? martha: well, thanks to daryl owens, we got an a'swer to that question. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] for frequent heartburn sufferers,

it's a brand new day. a day when we can eat what weant, drink what we want, and sleep soundly through the night. prevacid®24hr prevents the acid that causes frequent heartburn all day, all night. take the prevacid®24hr challenge and see why 9 out of 10 users say they're satisfied. try a 28 count prevacid®24hr free. see prevacid®24hr.com for offer details.

but think about your heart. 2% has over half the saturated fat of whole milk. want to cut back on fat and not compromisen taste? try smart balance fat free milk. it's what you'd expect from the folks at smart balance.

martha: all right, here's a fox news alert this morning as wq take a look at president obama in a major white house move rolling back no child left behind, the bush-era law which holds schools to certain national standards if you have kids in schools, they've taken these tests the some schools could opt out of that requirement to take the test. the administration is acting because congress has dragged its

feet on this issue. some prominent gop be lawmakers ñ%y they didn't let them take on the issue. you can watch the president's speech streaming live on foxnews.com from the white house. bill: now the stake of a florida businessman on trial for shooting his wife in their mansion back in 2009. steve harrigan on the story there. has his behavior been a factor? >> reporter: even before this trial started, bob ward's behavior has been a major factor. during a jailhouse visit, this case got enormous attention when he was shown dancing on the other side of the gans, and during their closing arguments, they stressed his manner during that 911 call he made. >> this is a horrible accident that has taken place.

horrible accident took place? come to 5277 isle worth drive, there's been a horrible accident, don't die, i love you, honey. don't die, hold on! is there anything you can do? get here right now! >> reporter: so the prosecution, so the prosecution is really laying heavy stress on that 911 call both for the content, what bob ward said, i just shot my wife, and for what he failed to do on that call. bill: if found guilty, steve, what penalty could he face? >> reporter: in the instructions to the six-person jury, the judge said there could be three options for bob ward, i&$bther @&c @&c@ to beoac?[ found guilty on second-degree charges or manslaughter charges or not guilty. so far the defense has tried to prove that the single shot that killed diane ward went off during a struggle, they're also trying to show she was

intoxicated at the time and back to you. bill: we will await a verdict there. thank you, steve harrigan n orlando. sp)tha: over the past two days we've seen the biggest decline in the dow since 2008, and we are heading lower again this morning. w-q down, well, we're down about 75 points right now. and neil cavuto fears that we may be heading into a double-dip recession. we're going to talk about that, plus -- y god, there's ce brie. %t hit something. this is a deadly situation, we're not getting anywhere near this thing. look at the debris. this is not good, guys. bill: what a year it's been. and while most run for their lives in those situations, these guys run to the eye of the storm to gather information to save lives. today meeá the storm chasers, still to come here on "america's newsroom". >> that's a roar. it's going to move south of us. get ready to back up. hi, i'd like to report a verywor large tornado near clay town. 4,

they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ [ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits? that wasn't the agreement. [ male announcer ] join the members of aarp and tell washington to stop cuts to our medicare and social security benefits.

[ticking, ♪...] >> man: every minute of every day, identity thieves are ready to steal your most important assets. they can destroy your credit, take money right out of your bank accounts, even steal the equity in your home. it takes just seconds and you could be next. that's why you need lifelock, the leader in proactive identity theft protection. lifelock protects your most valuable personal assets: your money, your credit, even the equity in your home. >> when my identity was attacked, i felt complete panic. i felt a sense of a loss of control.

>> man: every second counts because identity thieves know credit monitoring of free credit reports may only tell you weeks, even months after you've been attacked, giving them time to steal what you value most. lifelock monitors your most critical personal information every second of every day. as soon as an attempted breach is detected within our network, lifelock's advanced identity alert system directly notifies you, helping you stop the identity thieves before they stop you. and because not all identity theft can be prevented, if the criminals do strike, lifelock is there with round-the-clock service. plus, our $1,000,000 service guarantee. >> protecting my identity is not something that i have to think i'm doing alone anymore. i have lifelock. >> man: every minute of every day, identity thieves are searching for their next victim. are you next? all it takes is one call and you'll have lifelock's comprehensive service for 60 days risk free and also get this document shredder to keep your personal documents out of the wrong hands, a $29 value, free.

use promo code prepared60. get the comprehensive identity theft protection you need and our $1,000,000 service guarantee. [clicking, ♪...] bill: now we're going to put new a good mood, aren't we martha? yes we are. more talk of that dreaded double-dip recession after another dismal day on the street. watch the dow starting from yesterday's opening bell to the end of trading. we ended up down about 391 points, that's off about 3 1/2%. you tack on the big losses from the day before and we are down 600 in seven -- six # five points between trading on wednesday and thursday alone. take a look at the market right now, off about 35, 36

points, treading water relative to what we have seen recently. neil cavuto is senior vice president of business news and anchor of "your world with neil cavuto" how you doing, may man -- my man! i brought you on to bringas smile, give us uplifting news and bring us the bright headlines. that's the challenge. >> interest rates are at all-time lows. how's that? >> bill: that's one, keep going. >> if you can afford a house, it's going to be -- it's cheap to borrow, to buy it. unfortunately, as you know, bill, with rates even at these record lows and they keep tumbling, it's not really affecting things because folks are already so under water in their homes they can't refinance, take advantage of it and those thraog buy homes, they're finding a tough time getting a loan, so it's a half full, half empty glass. best i can do today. bill: that's all right. it's like a quarterback in football, right, you take what the defense gives you. >> whatever we can pass on. bill: do you think we are

already back into recession? >> i question whether we ever got out of the last one. and i only say that not to belittle beth party -- either party but just to say that growth has been so weak, and in some sector, virtually nonexistent, that i know the technical definitions of a recession are such, two negative quarters, then you need positive quarters coming out of it to end it, but when the positive quarters were virtually nil, in other words, in one recent period, barely positive, and then we see job gains in a recent month at zero, if that is coming out of something, what does it take to just soar? and i really wonder whether that's the case. having said that, we're getting growing concerns that europe isn't out of its own problems and now china, which if you think about it, bill, is sort of like the world's sugar daddy, is having problems of its own, and that is not very constructive. bill: do they know how deep

the hole is in europe? >> i think they fear it's -- billy, i think they fear it's very deep. i think they're concerned and that's why i've seen a lot of european banks, societygene, some of these others, have fallen 30 percent this week. we focus on what's happening to our banks, including those that were downgraded this week, bank of america, wells fargo, citigroup, and they have fallen a lot, but not nearly as much as those european concerns have, and the fear is that there is a bit of a banking contagion going on, and one sector that's been hit more than any other is the financial sector, and fears that where there's smoke, there's fire, and that we could see another meltdown. you mentioned earlier, i think, that we are at levels in the falloff this week, approaching what we had in october 2008. that was in the middle of a meltdown. i don't want to push a reemergence of that, but that's what they're afraid of and the bank stocks falling to the degree they

have, here, there, everywhere, is playing out much as it did then. i hope it doesn't repeat but i just point it out. bill: it's been three years of bad news when it comes to the economy and we're hanging on the silver lining of interest rates. if you're in the market to refinance you can save yourself a lot of money over the years. that's one place to make money. >> but it's a big question, in order to do that, you can't be under water on your mortgage. and that's tough. bill: neil, thank you, as always, appreciate it. we'll check you out over the weekend, "your world with neil cavuto", check him out on the fox news channel. thanks neil. martha: the dow yesterday, that is a tough thing to look at. the republican presidential candidates gearing up for a meeting with state conservative leaders in orlando. we're joined by chief political correspondent carl cameron live from the orange county convention center. carl t. sounds like there's still fighting prosecute last night's debate, still scrapping out there >>

reporter: that's right, we had a new debate to -- a new bell to quiet the candidates, but there's a new bell at the political action conference taking place essentially in the same facility as the debate last night and last night's comments from texas governor rick perry, that people who disagree with his support for providing illegal aliens in-state tuition benefits from texas suggest that those people have no heart, this morning, mitt romney, michele bachmann, newt gingrich, and others have taken issue with rick p.y's position and mitt romney went right after him for suggesting illegal immigrants, immigration foes, or at least who are moore conservative than rick perry, are partyless. >> my friend governor perry said if you don't agree with his position on giving that in-state tuition to illegals, that you don't have a heart. i think if you're opposed to illegal immigration, it doesn't mean that you don't

have a heart. it means that you have a heart and a brain. >> [applause] >>s president of the united states, i will build a fence an our southern border against illegal immigration. >> [applause] >> and we will not have taxpayers subsidize benefits for illegal immigrants or for their children. >> reporter: clearly, perry's republican rivals see a huge opportunity to criticize his conservative credentials on a core issue, if skwr illem iltkpwraeubgs is also a jobs and national security issue so they see an opportunity to continue beating up on rick perry who by most accounts does not -- did not have a standout performance last night and in many minds, it was mitt romney who carried the day martha. martha: very interesting. these guys don't get too much time to rest after last night's debate, they're back out there, as you are, too,

carl. thank you very much, carl cameron. bill: what do you think at home, huh? >> our "america's newsroom" question, who won the debate last night, we have 4500 votes in 90 minutes, about 30 percent go to ron paul, 25 percent romney, 35 percent, herman cain, still vote, it's online right now. martha: herman cain got a lot of positive attention. it's interesting he's showing up so favorly -- favorably in that poll. now we've got this for you, a sixth grader got campaign advice from the governor of new swrerz, 12-year-old zach martinez was in the audience and is running for student council. >> hang them up until they tell you to take it down. the last thing is, don't make promises you can't keep >> [applause] >> all right? because if you do, they won't be voting for you in seventh grade, all right?

it's a long way back. martha: i think he was president of his class so he knows something about that. you can't phropls things you can't deliver because people remember those things. he said people do like it, they appreciate it, you can't say vote for me, you have to say would you please vote for me, i really need your vote, things along those lines. were new student council? >> bill: i was. >> martha: so was i. i need your vote, i would like you to vote for me, and twist their arm and that helps, too! bill: so a hospital already banning smokes and now they're going one step further in cracking down on employees. we'll tell you about that in a moment. martha: one of the must-see moments from last night. we love this moment. who would be your v.p. of other folks on the stage? >> i'm tempted to say when all this is said and done the two guys standing in the middle, romney and perry, aren't going to be around because they're going to bludgeon each or to death.

bill: smokers beware if you're thinking about getting a job with the bailer health system in dallas, starting the first of january you will not get a job, bailer -- baylor employs 20,000 people. saying it's all about being a good role model. >> this is what i do, because you want to put the patients first, and it will help out a lot. >> it cross that is line to where are you infringing on peoples' rights of smoking on their own. bill: currently baylor employees are not forced to quit but it's going to cost if you continue. baylor will up their health insurance surcharge from $50 to about $650 per year. martha: all right. with more of the must-see moments from last night's debate, the $64,000 question, who would you pick as your vice presidential running mate from the folks who are on the stage with you right now, if you were to win the republican

nomination. watch: >> if you had to choose one of your opponents to be your running mate for the 2012 election, who would you choose and why? >> i don't know how you would do this, but if you could take herman cain and mate him up with newt gingrich, i think you would have a couple of really interesting guys to work with! >> governor romney, an answer? >> there are a couple of images i'm going to have a hard time getting out of my mind. >> [laughter] >> martha: very snappy comeback from mitt romney on that one. joined by juan williams and brad blakeman, former deputy assistant to president skwrorbgs w. bush. hello gentlemen, good morning to you. >> good morning, martha. martha: juan, there was something about the mate him up part of that sentence that sort of made everyone

go oh, that's a bit odd. >> it was odd. but it was entertaining! i thought it was also entertaining when you heard gary johnson, the former new mexico governor, say that he would pick ron paul. again, i thought there's the libertarian arm of the republican party flexing its might. lots of interesting combinations. because normally you see these folks at each other, but in that moment, in that question, which i thought was a lot of fun, you saw an opportunity for some of what may be a stronger republican ticket to take on president obama. martha: yeah, it was very interesting. brad, let's take a look at this next piece of video, we put a few of them together, then we'd love to get your thoughts on that. let's watch: >> herman cain, because of his election ties, the fact that we agree with the gold standard in wearing the yellow ties. >> i'm going to disappoint those in the ho wood who -- in the audience who want

this to be a hollywood game. i don't have any idea who i would picks a presidential nomie. >> we need a constitutional strong conservative and that's what i would look for in a vice president. martha: it seems to me there's a newt gingrich moment in every one of these debates where he sort of scolds the way things are going and saying this is not a joke, we're not kidding out here and that was clearly the moment last night. >> you set gent to the principal's office if you ask newt a question he doesn't want to answer. i thought it was a great moment when rick perry was talking about merging the personalities. i was under the assumption that the republicans were against cloning, but i didn't hear any candidate go back and perry soling him for putting two personalities together but let's face it, there's nobody on that stage who wanted to be named in that answer because they're running for president and i'll even senture to say that -- venture to say when a nominee is elected it won't be anybody on that stage. marioo stage: martha: the hypothetical left everybody

off the hook. to a big extent, nobody is going to hold them to what they said last night, and i felt bad for rick santorum, and he said i would pick newt gingrich and gingrich said i'm not picking -- picking anybody! >> i disagree on two points here. i think people did want to be picked in the way that everybody wants to be the most popular kid in the class. i think people wanted the recognition from their peers, and especially romney and perry. and you'll notice, nobody picked those two, the frontrunners, because no one wanted to bolster their chances and acknowledge them as the leaders of the field. martha: brad o'clock before we go, who was the big winner? >> i think it was romney. romney certainly looked presidential, he acted presidential and perry went in there with a chip on his shoulder as the frontrunner and he went on the attack, not waiting for the attack, which is typical of what happens when you're the frontrunner. martha: interesting. juan, what about you, what did you think? >> it came out a draw to me because the two frontrunners i think are unscathed, still

there, although among people who are strong conservatives and opponents of immigration, perry's answers on immigration i think were very troubling to the base, while it may have been more attractive to mainstream voters and it could have helped him with the electibility argument. but to the key people who will vote in that straw poll tomorrow in florida, i think perry hurt himself. martha: it's going to be interesting, because we've seen that perry has a pretty decent lead in most of the polls up until now and a lot of talk about how strong romney came on last night. we'll see if it makes a difference with the folks out there watching. brad and juan, always good to see you. >> what about bill and martha as the ticket? you know, since they're both -- >> martha: would you like to be my vice president? >> i take the undercut. bill well done, juan! >> you're welcome, bill. bill: see you later, buddy. jon scott is coming up next. i don't know jon secretary of state? come on! bill: we need to fill up the cabinet, jon.

how you doing? what's happening? >> jon: very big day today. stocks down a smidgen this morning, not as far as they were a few moments ago, the last two day, very bad on wall street as fears intensify over the state of the u.s. economy. my drama -- high drama at the united nations, the palestinians may be about to push for statehood. what will happen again? the big fox news-google debate getting a lot of attention, presidential candidate newt gingrich joins us live and we want to hear from you, go to foxnews.com/happening now, ask the america's asking tab to get your question in. bill: a man knows his place, right? >> martha: we'll be copresident, bill, like coanchors. bill: now you're sucking up! thank you jon. it was a year like no other they have seen before, the storm chasers captured all of it, too. watch here. >> you can hear the roar, this thing is an extremely violent tornado. we're trying to get people out of here. i've never seen a torn tado

like this before in my life! got out of the way! >> bill: meet one of them in a moment and what they learned could save your life. >> look at that you guys, at the base!

bill: never before seen images of an historic year for destructive tornadoes. here is a clip now from the newest season of storm chasers. >> go! move! bill: it goes from there and man does it go and go and go. veteran storm chasers in harm's way tracking the monster twister toss learn more about them and ultimately save lives, and capturing it for the discovery channel, tim, good

morning to you, you used technology this year that you've never used before. how so? how did that help, tim? >> well, this year we actually had mobile radar with us and new technology we deploy in the path of tornadoes. our goal is to help understand these monsters better, why these thunderstorms sometimes produce tornadoes and others don't and why these tornadoes become so darn violent. bill: did you ever figure out why we saw so many tornadoes? the outbreak was so frequent this past year. >> well, on april 27th, all the parameters came together just perfectly to have a tremendous tornado outbreak. on the morning of, we didn't think it was going to be that big. of course, at the conclusion of the day, over 200 tornadoes and many, many lives lost, it even blew us away. so certainly for that day, it was my biggest day in my 25 year chase career.

bill: april 27th, that was tuscaloosa, alabama, wasn't it? >> yeah, tuscaloosa, birmingham, a lot of other communities that were in the path that day. bill: what did you see and what did you take away from that, what did you learn in order to save lives next year? >> well, certainly that day, we witnessed over 4-5 violent tornadoes and chasing here in alabama, there's a lot of trees in the way. we couldn't see the tornadoes until they were actually a couple hundred feat away from us and that was pretty scary, because we would sit there and watch the top of these clouds come by and the tornadoes would bust through the trees and we only have a glimpse of it and with them moving 50-60 miles an hour, they were very difficult to catch, very difficult it measure. we did manage to collect some measurements, but the tornadoes were moving so fast that we hardly had a chance to collect a lot of the measurements we wanted to make and nearly every thunderstorm in the state of alabama was actually

producing tornadoes. bill: these images are still so stark from that day and the meteorologists tells you that what they want to do every year is to continue to get better seeing through the storm, that way they can figure out what's going on inside it and make a fair prediction and that's not always easy to do. we're going to watch your show and we appreciate you coming on, tim, thank you for sharing your story. >> you bet. bill: all right. the new season of "storm chasers", discovery channel, premieres sunday night, 10:00 eastern time, check it out. martha: we know what we're doing sunday night. presidential candidate newt gingrich, we were just talking to him a moment ago, how does he think he did in last night's debate? you'll find out. because he's here, at the top of the hour. we'll be right back. >> on election night, when barack obama loses decisively. >> [applause] >>

martha: here we go, theyre gearing up for halloween, a kansas city haunted house, adding a real-life killer attraction, what may be the world's largest snake. look at that! bill hemmer! oh my! 300 pounds, only one head, though, as far as we know. when she's really hungry, she eats # hundred pounds of food in a day! bill: how many people are holding that thing? >> 12? >> martha: just be thankful it wasn't us, okay? be thankful. bill: the first guy had a hard time handling medusa. good luck in kansas city. martha: 300 pounds? good lord. bill: have a good weekend. martha: have a good weekend, everybody. bye, we'll see you monday! >> jon: and we begin this friday with a fox news alert and it is about your bottom line. good morning to you, i'm jon scott. jenna: that snake looked