someone here says the job market is going to stay a mess until housing gets cleaned up. is that right? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. welcome to "forbes on fox." let's go in focus with michael zania, victoria barrett, dennis neil, kim m mcnicholaus. mike, is the new housing report bad sign for job market? >> terrible sign. housing market serves as excellent barometer of the overall economy. housing impacts construction but the companies that supply home products. it's also one of the things that employers are looking at when they think of hiring people. it's putting a lot of fear in employers for jobs and it will continue to hurt jobs for quite some time. >> david: victoria, is the housing market bellwether for the rest of the economy? >> this is a confidence game. housing is a huge part of it. but for business managers, for entrepreneurs, it's just a part of it. you can see kind of a

continual lag in the housing market. while hopefully we can see a boost in the jobs market. steve forbes did an excellent interview in the current "forbes 400" issue. >> david: suck up, suck up. go ahead. >> yeah. he talks about how all the businesses, everyone feels fairly confident, when they look at their numbers they're good. these are hotels, sporting goods. then they are looking ahead and they are scared. we have to get out of that. dennis neil line. scaredty cat mind set and have confidence. housing is only a part of it. >> david: you teased dennis. dennis is up in a minute but bill next. bill, do we need housing recovery before we have a jobs recovery? >> yes, we need it. no, we're not getting it. there is a grand social engineering experiment at the federal reserve. here is the scheme. they deny interest to senior citizens who live off the cds. interest rate on the bank account is zero. this is supposed to help young people buy houses. not working, house prices are

still flat. it's backfiring. constructional employment is dead. the economy is dead as a result. you know what? old people will go back to cat food. >> david: mark, the scary thing is no matter what we try it doesn't seem to get the housing market back. we have a massive government spending on trying to help people in foreclosure. we have the fed trying to get interested rates in to negative levels practically and nothing seems to work. >> well, that's right, david. we need to create jobs before housing is going to recover. look, we could have housing recover and if people don't have jobs we'll go right back to the problem we have before. we need good paying jobs, not jobs that people have to live off the home equity loans. >> david: how do we get them, mark? they don't fall like man out of the sky. >> congress has to pass the obama jobs bill. that's the way to go. the government needs to get involved and stimulate the economy.

we need to do that and do it now. >> david: do you agree? >> the government should do as little as possible. jobs bill is a disaster. worse, the reason housing prices haven't fall on the the natural bottom is because of the government well-intended intervention trying to ease the pain. instead prolong the pain. we can have a turn-around without housing. it's not a matter of the price of housing, to me. it's a matter of home sales. guys, you had a home on the market for two years that ain't selling, cut your price. then it will sell. the new couple that will move in will buy furniture and help the economy. don't worry about the price. >> david: until the price comes down to levels that they're practically giving away, frankly they are already giving them away in marke some markets, we won't recover. that's what dennis says. >> i don't agree. dennis is saying simply buying furniture will help improve the jobs market. absolutely not. we truly need to see the housing market turn around in

order for the job market to turn around. housing is one of the biggest industries in the united states. one of the largest segments out of work right now. if you consider lenders, brokers, real estate agents. general contractors, electricians, general contractors, the association of general contractors reports unemployment in that chi was 21.8% -- industry was 21.8%. >> businesses are not looking at housing to hire more. they look at always and demand. to act like housing makes businessmen is afraid to hire is a stretch. >> david: victoria, the fact is history is on kim's side. in past time when we came out of recovery it was led by housing. >> always the housing. >> kim and i are both in california which is a state very familiar with housing boom and bust.

you have to agree that there were too many real estate brokers in 2007. >> david: that's for sure. >> too many people in construction. construction is interesting, because 20% of the workers are immigrant labor. they're not showing up in the jobs number. the problem is worse. >> david: hold on, mike. victoria brings up a great point, which is that in fact we had so overcommitted to the housing market. we have haven't come down to levels that we were at, as bad as housing is right now. it's still higher than it was in 2,000. >> even though dennis was wrong. dennis is right on this point. >> david: magnanimous mike! >> watching the problem that washington's policy that prevented housing from correcting. let's not forget that the commercial side of this, the commercial side of the real estate market is somewhat tied to the housing market. residential side. they impact each other's values and you have a lot of small businesses right now that are underwater on their

mortgages. that's another thing that is having a negative impact on jobs. >> david: bill? the overall point we mentioned a couple of times is government helping or hurting the housing market? >> it's definitely hurting it. i don't need mark's stimulus. if i were a retiree trying to live off the bank account interest i would not be stimulated when the federal reserve decrees i get zero. how do i pay for my food? >> more stimulus. >> david: mark? >> we need more stimulus. the discussion denies one big fact. that is that the housing market has changed. we're not going back to 2006 levels for cree years there's a demographic change. unless we change immigration, the population isn't growing fast enough to absorb the existing supply of houses. >> david: kim, what about the question, kim, about the government involvement? do we need more or less of that? >> i don't think we need more

government involvement at all. it's just down to the basic numbers. take l.a. county. the housing market, the unemployment rate. 12.4% a year ago. up to 12.6%. one of biggest reasons for the jump was construction employment dropped nearly 5%. why? sing family housing permits dipped 11.5%. still going back to my basic argument, that we do need housing to stabilize before the job market. >> too much stimulus. we had so much stimulus the economy passed out from the stimulus. it about working. it can't believe people are calling for more. what is wrong with you folks? >> david: quick last word go ahead. >> that is house the housing market will be fixed. we're not building new homes so this excess inventory can be absorb and young families can buy homes affordably. it's a good thing. ugly process along the way but it has to happen. >> last word to victoria. you want to cut the number of americans in unemployment

lines. everybody does. big u.s. companies say cut the corporate tax rate. is that how to pick up our economy? first, the white house touting the fact that more young adults get healthcare coverage these days. someone here says it's a terrible sign. it's a forbes flip side coming next. well...weird. she won't eat eggs without hot sauce. she has kind of funny looking toes. she's always touching my hair. and she does ts ncing finger thing. [ male announcer ] with advanced technology from ge, now doctors can diagnose diseases like breast cancer on a cellular level. so that women, like kristy's mom, can get personalized treatment that's as unique as she is. [ kristy ] she's definitely not like other moms. yeah, my mom is pretty weird. ♪ this is not how witness protection works! when we set you up with that little hardware store we didn't intend for your face to be everywhere. but fedex office makes it so easy. not only do they ship stuff, they print flyers, brochures -- everything i need to get my name outhere.

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♪ my baby's gone away with dedicated claims specialists... and around-the-clock service, travelers can help make things better quicker. will your auto and home insurer... be there when you need them most? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage... or visit travelers.com. this is a fox news alert. live from america's news headquarters. i'm jamie colby. right now we're waiting a verdict in the murder trial of millionaire developer. florida businessman bob ward accused of shooting his wife in their mansion in 2009. moments ago, a bailiff announcing the jury has reached a decision in the murder trial. we expect to get the verdict in short time. and we will bring it to you when we have it. meanwhile, also in florida, the front runner for the g.o.p. presidential nomination, they are there in the sunshine state and they're facing a big test today. the florida republican party holding its straw poll. it's just daying after the fox

news google debate in orlando. and estimateed 3 ,500 voters on hand for the poll. it's a serious poll because it has a reputation for calling the winners. accurately predicting the g.o.p. nominee, each of three times it's been conducted. keep it on fox for the results. i'm jamie colby. see you at 1:00 p.m. eastern. ♪ ♪ >> david: the white house says this is a good sign. almost a million young adults getting health insurance last year. it's crediting a provision in the president healthcare law that lets kids stay on their parents' plan until age 26. victoria, you say this is a bad sign. explain the flipside. >> well, the kids are on their parents' plan because they don't have jobs. their jobs aren't getting them healthcare. that is not a good thing. more kids are staying at home in their mid-and late 20s. yea! everyone gets to live at home with their parents. that's so great. no, it's not.

it's a bad sign. youth unemployment is a problem. in this councilmember. if you look at europe it's a really ugly trend. let's not mimic our friends overseas. >> david: mark, to emphasize what vicky is saying employment of young adults between 16 to 29 was at the lowest level since the end of world war ii. >> well, this is a sign of how bad the job market is. it's not a matter of people wanting to sit at home and eat bonn-bonns and watch television. when they get jobs, employers don't offer health insurance or they are cutting back on health insurance. this is a good thing that the affordable care act offers it. why is it on this program we want people to have no benefits at all? why is that a good thing to have that out there. >> david: what i don't understand why is the white house bragging? they mandate that health insurers have to cover kids up to 26. they brag about the health insurance kids get up to 26. of course they are. they have to now. >> of course they deny the

main argument, david. obamacare is one of the reason why unemployment is at 10%. according to president obama if we gave healthcare coverage to people in their 30, and then things are better. >> david: what about that? flet of full implementation of obamacare stopping employers from hiring folks? >> no, don't think so at all. a healthy worker is a more productive worker. you have to have healthy folks. if they're not going to have health insurance they're less likely to get their conditions treated. if you don't get a condition treated it's more likely to get worse. most of the young adults under the age of 26 are still in school. they are getting bachelor's degree or master's degree or we hope. we try to push them to be more educated in our society. or they are starting the industry level position. the last thing you want them to worry about is accepting a job based on healthcare benefits. you want them to get the

experience they need to be more productive citizens. >> david: dennis, the fact is the reason i didn't have health insurance in my 20s and why most people didn't in their 20s before it was mandated is a lot of us didn't get sick. there is a cost to this. maybe it would be nice in a perfect world for everybody to have everything they want. but there is a cost to this. that cost is taken in the form of higher premiums that health insurers are charged. >> the cost is even higher than that. it's a psychological cost. letting a kid stay at home with mom and dad until age 26 and be on mom and dad's insurance plan and forcing insurers to do that is paternalistic. >> they don't have to be at home. >> i'm in the middle of something here. bad sign most of all for parents. they earn the right to have their kids not come back home. the latest poverty statistic shows something. what adult kids move back in to their parents' home, did you realize it can put the parents in to the poverty, definition of poverty. it makes them poorer.

i think policies that encourage kids to stay at home instead of going out and getting jobs. i know 26 years old who turned down bad jobs. in yogurt shops because they want to wait for the right job. >> david: i have no problems with parents and their kids living at home together. that might be a good thing. but the fact is the government mandating policies is what i have problems with. how about you? >> i think we have the same old problem under obamacare. we have always had. called adverse selection. what that means is only the sick people bother to pay for insurance. this time it's worse. now it's only the sick unemployed people getting on their insurance policies of their parents. that is not a good sign. nothing for the white house to be proud about. >> david: victoria, again, the problem i have is when it's mandated part. that is the problem. that is forcing the premiums up higher than they already were. >> you mentioned earlier, there is a hidden cost to is. premiums go up for everyone. if you are an employer, all of a sudden you have to pay more

for the employee in their 50s because the kid in their 20s is on their healthcare plan. you don't have money to hire a new person. >> david: kim, i got to tell you, tell you, too, to a point that was made by mike earlier, i talk to a lot of small business in my job and many say the reason they're not hiring is they're worried about the implementation of obamacare. they will be forced to give insurance to people that they didn't used to give it to. >> take this in consideration. i read a study saying that the cost of chronic condition, treating a chronic condition of diabetes is $5,000 on average for a year. the cost of not treating diabetes and treating a problem that arises from it, $45,000. >> that is the excuse for obamacare. you're laying out the excuses for obamacare. i ask about employers. go back to you. we talk to potential employers who are not hiring because they're afraid of obamacare.

>> that's true, especially small business owners. this isn't about giving health insurance to young people but having universally, national controlled healthcare. if you want to give healthcare to young people have a free market and customize their own program and buy catastrophic care. >> david: that is the last word. coming up next, remember the green car technology that millions of your tax dollars paid for? now critics say g.m. is taking it to china. feeling cheated?

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that naturally helps maintain your digestive balance. try align to help retain a balanced digestive syst. try the #1 gastroenterologist recommended probiotic. align. [ cellphone rings ] cut! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com. >> david: we bailed out g.m. now g.m. is going to china to develop cars. and also forbes is out with 400 richest people in america.

>> david: well, you paid for it. now china is going to profit from it. g.m. announcing it's going to china to build electric cars. critics fear it will be taking millions of dollars of green technology that americans paid for with it. g.m. says it's made no agreements to share its secrets but kim, you're not buying that argument. >> no, they are going to have to give china their secrets if they want to have fair asset to china marketing. china said and made clear they are not going to give their assets to the u.s. companies that don't give them their trade secrets. it's like giving lunch money to the school bully. we have to do it. be we shouldn't be doing if it we want access to the playground. plus, federal subsidiaries that our taxpayers. >> right. >> we really need to keep it right here in the united states. president obama has actually justified this spend to order to saying that the job market -- >> david: got it. we paid for the technology and

now we're giving it to the chinese. that is the argument. >> the school lunch bully kim talked about, the baddest kid in school, so you give him money and sell him all the food and make money back. >> i like the analogy. >> wow! >> china has the largest cell phone market this the world. don't sell the sell phones. it has the largest p.c. market. don't sell computers there because they might take the technology. it has the largest car market in the world. let's not sell electric car. china respects patents more than it did 20 years ago because it's starting to patent stuff itself. legal way to cover it. don't let it stop you getting the best. >> wow! that is a little -- >> david: hold on. i want to get others in there is another question here. why is g.m. expanding the electric line when the volt, the electric car here isn't selling? >> what did you say? 300 cars sold in august? that's pathetic. with the giant taxpayer paid subsidy. i'm not sure you are right saying china profits from it. how can you use profit to talk about anything with green technology.

it always loses money. look at solyndra. if china is going to steal manufacturerring jobs, let them steal the subsidy business. they can pay for it. >> david: but g.m. is expanding to a business that's not selling. that does sounds like solyndra, no? >> initially it's not selling. >> david: how long do we have to wait? >> fossil fuel is dead. it will die in the next 20 years. >> david: i don't think fossil fuel is bad. it's good. provides with us all the lights. mike? >> i love fossil fuel. >> i don't think -- >> david: mike, go ahead. >> we can write off the chinese market. >> david: i don't thick we're writing off chinese market. we just don't want to give us our taxpayer advantages. >> look. there is risk with free trade. china is the biggest market. they sell more cars and trucks in china than they do in united states. g.m. wants to start importing chinese cars in the united states. could be good. >> david: dennis?

>> dade, i have a question for you, sir, as the anchor. if no taxpayer money would help develop the electric car stuff, if this is all private money. >> david: fine. >> are you saying american private companies should not sell it in china? >> no. at your own risk. everything that chinese buy they reverse engineer and try to come out with it. they'll try to steal it. if it's private it's their own money. i don't want my taxpayer money used for investment. even in this down economy, forbes is finding plenty of americans to put on the new rich list. the informers have stocks to add you to the list. the picks coming next. p in america, we believe in a future

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>> david: the forbes rich list hitting newsstands this week. informers have stocks to put tycoons on the list and might put you on it next year. larry ellie son is on the list, oracle. why do you like oracle?

>> i like oracle because it has a marvelously predictable business model. in this current stock market investors are going to appreciate. >> david: bill, you like it? >> absolutely not. everybody is switching to open source software, end of larry. >> david: you like aubrey mcclen don company chesapeake energy. why? quick. >> natural gas, which is green and cheap. >> david: jim, you like natural gas companies? >> no. it's operational efficiency is in question. >> david: steve jobs, unfortunately, his health is in question and his company is not. apple, why do you like it? >> this company will thrive in the downturn. >> david: victoria? >> that is true but the fact that steve jobs is not day-to-day, worry about it. >> david: best to steve jobs. that's it. stay tuned. >> cheryl: talk about a taxing weak market and tanking with the recession fears mounting. now in an effort to get jobs going, more than a dozen of america's biggest