two weeks ago he was almost a asterisk in the gop nomination race, and right now governor perry and governor romney, you better look out, because herman cain is surging, and could put change. politics are so full of surprises. karl rove is here to go on the record. good evening, karl. boy, what a difference this week. herman cain is surging. a lot of enthusiasm. why? >> he had a good debate performance and he won the florida straw poll and it gave we should be careful into reading too much in these polls. there's[ poll. one is herman cain has moved up and the other is rick perry has moved down. this race will go back and forth and up and down until people get ready to vote. people are looking at this contest in a different way. they're judging it almost like they would, you know, an olympic

diving contest rather than the normal presidential contest, where they pick somebody, stay mistake, they give them an excuse. in this race it's being treated differently. >> greta: it certainly does seem he's getting a lot of enthusiasm, herman cain. i don't know necessarily he'll be the nominee, what his numbers will be tomorrow, but i have a sense reading newspapers across the country and talking to people that he's connected for meanwhile you mentioned governor rick perry. about having no heart with illegal immigration, plus the opt-out part of the vaccine. that gave him some trouble. he certainly has hit some rough spots. >> yeah, the third debate, the debate was okay. second debate, the expectations were that he should improve, and he didn't.

improve, and he got much worse. he had two or three dreadful answers. i do think the immigration comment hurt him, i think it was the tone and how well he handled questions. and again, that's the bad news. there's also good news in this. again, i go back to the analogy of this is like an olympic diving trailer, and we're all watching these things in a at the end of each debate and rate each one. it's entirely possible for governor perry to come back. he will need to have a very good set of debate performances in october. he can't have a so-so debate and a good debate. he's got to have two really good debates. october 15th. look, he comes from a big state. he's raised a lot of money for association. pretty good number. >> greta: isn't it significant, in spite of how much i realize

how different each day can be in the political season, isn't it significant that mr. herman cain, who doesn't have the huge money, doesn't have the huge machine, and won the florida straw poll, and he's getting a and at least for the moment he it's a simplified way of looking at taxes, which is something that really rubs a lot of republicans the wrong way. >> yeah. look, you touched on the good points. again, though, though, i would make the point until we start seeing him moving in the early states, like iowa, new we see some durability for through this exercise a couple season. won the iowa straw poll, jumped in the polls, and now has dwindled away. we had governor perry come in and jump to a commanding lead, and now in the fox poll he's fallen back into second place. i suspect we're likely to see the same thing for herman cain, because he had a really good debate performance, won the

will be three weeks, between the we'll turn our attention to two different things. wins what everybody reports in terms of money, that's going to be a major how well they're doing, and second of all whether or not anybody gives a substantive policy speech between now and the next debate that draws attention. back-and-forth of the day and day, and the only way that herman cain can affect his mistake, which i'm sure he won't make. >> greta: meanwhile while the attention is on the bad performance by governor perry and the surge by mr. herman cain, it seems like one of the people that has avoided the noise is governor romney, but house press secretary, embraced him on the idea of the mandate, going governor romney has saying the mandate was a conservative idea. at what point, if at any point,

does this healthcare in massachusetts, or his statements about it being a conservative idea, this mandate, do those statements ever come back to haunt him in the primary season? >> well, look, the president has already said this any number of times. in fact, as recently as the bus trip last month, the president washington is what they did in massachusetts. look, governor romney has a chips. he gets to either have a debate with president obama about how his plan is different than president obama's or he gets to have a debate with fellow republicans over the issue. if i were him, i'd be having the debate with president obama. now, he started to say -- to month when he was on with south carolina senator jim demint. the third debate where he started to describe some of the differences between massachusetts and washington, but it's a debate that's better for him to have sooner rather than later. it's better for him to have the debate with president obama it is to have a debate with eight republicans on a stage in some

debate somewhere. >> greta: you raised president obama's name. today in your op-ed piece, you positive, uplifting vision. that was the strategy of 2008, according to your op-ed. the other choice was to feed the democratic base red meat. do you want explain that? >> well, first of all, i'm not giving him advice. if i was giving him advice, he anyway. >> greta: i was teasing. >> yeah, i got that, but i want to know be clear, because why are you giving president obama advice? i'm just commenting on the options available. i think the wiser course for him would have been to say, what is it that i need to lay out in the way of a positive agenda that allows me both to stoke the enthusiasm of democrats and more swing voters who are upset with me and are up for grabs in this election. president obama is playing dumb politics.

assumption, he's operating on that his principal problem is with democrats. huh-uh. his principal problem is with people like young voters whose approval rating has dropped 30 points with him. it's with independent and college-educated voters. it's with women, latinos. those five groups have moved in 2008.ion the class warfare, attacks on the republicans, and these difficult strong man arguments, like when he said the republicans, all they want to do is close down the government, return everybody's money, end regulation, and tell everybody

thinks he has a deep and enduring problem with democrats. he really doesn't. take a look at this. romney, today barack obama carries 88% of democrats -- 85% of democrats. and againstécz9r9-6gereyf now he can do better, but not a whole heck of a lot better. those are pretty good numbers for where we find ourselves at this point in the race. if i were him, i wouldn't be worried about those people. he can get them back easily. i'd be worried about the swing voters. instead he's adopting language and an approachktñ?ñ? that willn them off. >> greta: then why in your op-ed nñ22 nñ22 democratic base? >> i didn't say he should feed them. i said he has two strategies, one is a positive and optimistic vision, energizing the democrats, allowing him to go after the swing voters, or the adopted, feed the red meat to the democratic voters, the

moveon.org kind of people, and marginally re-energize them, but by leaving the impression about class warfare, over the top, divisive, not a uniter, that will hurt him in his ability to bring them into his camp. say these outrageous things, and it makes the left wingers happy, this stuff? baloney! it will make it difficult for the president to pivot and one day say, i'm a different guy than i've been for the last six or seven or eight months. we had this with al gore. he was angry al gore, populist it damaged him.

the president is doing the same thing. >> greta: any idea how big this swing voter group is, number one? number two, what is their main issue? >> we're talking about potentially you as much as a fifth or quarter of the2 chunk, particularly when you talk about independent voters. look, their issues are -- the interesting thing, if you look inside the data -- what's concerning them is the economy, deficits, debt, spending, and the affordable care act, and the tone in washington. in each of the four policy instances, they look more like republicans they do democrats. and the tone they hold the president responsible. to believe he would not be the president of red states or blue states, but of the united states. and this angry class warfare tone is much at odds with what he was doing in 2008. >> greta: all right. in light of where the voters stand, and the different

policies, the different republican candidates, and the enormous amount of money, expected to have a lot of money chest? it can be so destructive to your opponent, so positive toward yourself, that the money becomes so much more important than message? >> money allows you to convey message. yet that does matter. carolina in 2008, president think it was better than 2-1. in indiana, i think it was 7-1. in virginia, better than 2-1. as a result, he was able to carry these traditionally republican states. the last time indiana or virginia voted for a democrat for president, 1964. 1976. and yetégñ?ñ? obama had this huh advantage in the fall of 2008

change the tone in washington. i'm upset with the deficits of the bush years. i'm going to cut taxes for $250,000 a year. and interestingly enough, the second most widely splayed ad of said, government healthcare? extreme. he developed a different tone as a as i understand i centrist sid from the far left. >> greta: governor christie, i actually believe he's not going run. newspaper and there's somebody do you want to get into this voodoo game? should he run or not? >> first of all, i don't know whether he'll run or not. he said last night, go look at

politico, we have 1:53 of me saying i will never run. then when he got the heartfelt said, in essence, you'd have to be insane not to be moved by that. easily. politico answer. see the tape of what i said. i think he's still thinking about it, but whether he runs i don't know. he has a limited time frame to jump in. should he jump in? that's up to him. if he does jump it, it jiggles the contest in interesting ways. it endsbocu!hz8n7+÷ ironically enough the better the field at the top, the better the nominee becomes, because he or she has to engage in a strong campaign over a sustained period of time. you know, it's sort of like good things roll out. the right -- you know, the strongest person will rise to the top. but, you know, i don't know

whether he's going to run or not, but i think we'll know the answer pretty,n%r8pu notice it's a mirror image of president obama in terms of experience on issues like jobs. neither one had a history of creating jobs. and both of them are quite -- you know, they're inspiring to listen to them speak. so i'm not -- i'm not so sure that they're -- they follow different politics, but in terms of what they present to the voters there's an awful a lot of similarities. >> i thinkbkf difference in the way they speak. chris christie speaks from the heart, not from the teleprompter, and he's a straight shooter. >> greta: i think the effect that's created -- i mean republicans are dazzled by governor christie and democrats are dazzled by president obama. >> well, i think it's democrats were dazzled by president obama. seen him. he's become a folk hero. the internet has made, and

social media, have made this in part possible, because you can go to the town hall meetings where he's confronted by state employees and he speaks from his heart2 taxpayers of new jersey and what they deserve to have as part of the policy debate. so, you know, i think you'ref-t2 stopping by to go on the record. tomorrow night is former speaker of the house newt gingrich, and he will be here tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. eastern. just minutes away, another presidential candidate goes on the >> tomorrow night, newt gingrich will be here. former senator rick santorum will be here next. and is vice-president biden in trouble wi president obama? could this mean the woodshed for the vice-president? why do we ask?

we will play what you the vice-president said and then you decide. and bill o'reilly and jon stuart in the no-spin zone. not exactly. but frosting and sprinkles are involved. you have to see it to believe it. and you will because it's coming up. ders is for more than dandrf. itives me a healthy scalp and great looking hair. does it do anything else for you? no? no? yes. [ male announcer ] head & shoulders. 7 benefits. 1 bottle. maybe not. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit. [ male announcer ] get five dollars in money-saving coupons at v8juice.com. morning because my back hurt so bad. the sleep number bed conforms to you. i wake up in the morning with no back pain. i can adjust it if i need to...if my back's a little

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>> greta: slow and steady wins the race, at least that's what former senator rick santorum is saying his strategy is to win the republican presidential nomination. good evening, sir. >> hi, greta. voters, want to shake things up a little bit with the frontrunner. >> there's no question. i heard it in florida. i heard it in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, where i'm spending time. they're tired of the mitt and rick show, they want to hear from the other candidates. that's you see herman get a bump. poll in florida, which was a big help to us. our fundraising has jumped up as a result of thexúggynek i wish i'd hear from some of the other candidates. so i think there's a dissatisfaction with the choices that have been presented to the american public, which all the papers are saying it's a

two-candidate race. you're starting to tee to see d to that. >> greta: you think that's a big reason behind the surge for nxsoox bump. herman certainly has. when people are looking at other places, then the top two, that's an opportunity for us. we're going to exploit that, spend a lot of time in those early primaries. >> greta: big controversy right now over the primary schedule. you like the primary schedule, the caucus in iowa followed by new hampshire and south carolina. >> greta: florida is stirring up trouble. what's the problem? >> i don't understand what because whatever they'll accomplish they're going to fail. it's talked about moving the primary up to january. all four primary states, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, nevada, will move ahead of them. all you've done is effectively time to the primary process. >> and lose half of their delegates?

republican party, the national republican party. they should be able to set the rules, and they set the rules that these four states are going first. some states don't like it and want to jump ahead. well, they're not going to jump ahead. you're just going to move up the process. what i believe is what's going florida for mitt romney, or rick tomorrow. so that by moving up the calendar, you help the favorites. there's somebody in florida that wants to help the favorite. who picked them as the host state. i'm disappointed in the people in florida they're doing it. the national committee people aren't happy they're doing it, but i suspect the romney and perry camps are happy they're doing it. >> greta: who in florida there

is -- >> the chairman is a perry supporter that's organizing >> greta: why would he help romney? >> he's helping the favorite candidates. if you shave off a month, you're looking at thebgkt9"27iqixbéyr0 candidates, you want this election as quickly as possible. >> greta: they both can't win, though,. >> no, they can't both win, but you're advantaging the candidates at the top of the polls right now by having the election sooner than later. that's what's happening. >> greta: would should iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, and nevada, why should they pick the nominee for the republican party? >> they do a very good job. first off, there's two reasons. number one, is the obvious reason, which is the rnc says they're first. the second reason is because these states have a tradition of doing that. they've been doing in for a long

good track record of actually taking the responsibility very seriously. >> greta: the other states would too. wisconsin, i imagine they would like to have a say in who the nominee is. >> they're part of the process. number one, these states are smaller states, it's manageable for them to actually meet the candidates, to kick the tires, really are as opposed to the first state's california -- it's whoever raises the most money is going to raise california. so you can actually vet candidates with real people. >> greta: throw in rhode island. >> nevada was thrown in there constituency. iowa, south carolina, new hampshire, nevada not so much, responsibility seriously and doing a good job.

>> greta: you don't think the other states would take it seriously? they've been iced out. they haven't had a chance in decades. >> there's not a lot of people clamoring for this. it's a fairly significant responsibility for the party, as well as for the people in those candidates. they take it as a very serious responsibility. these early primary states, and to their credit that they do a -- i would argue a good job. i'm certainly counting on them to do a good job in iowa starting out in particular. >> greta: a foreign policy question. syria, they pelted eggs today at our ambassador. there in the first place? this is a country that's a rogue nation, we've not had an hostility toward israel. we've placed an ambassador there, and what we've gotten is a president who is killing its people in record numbers,

thumbing its note at international community, and still a thorn in the side of lebanon and israel. >> greta: why would i ask you a foreign policy question with 30 seconds left. thank you, sir. >> my pleasure. >> greta: coming up, vice president biden might want a do-over or hope the president didn't hear this one. you'll hear from the vice president in three minutes. also to state the obvious, we are in a crisis, a jobs crisis. americans want to work, but they simply can't find jobs. tonight there's news. but for the better or worse? stay tuned. there's only one bottle left !

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>> greta: is vice president biden going rogue? who is he saying is possible for our lousy economy? if you say the vice president is naming president bush, that's a wrong guess. here's vice president biden. >> there's a lot of people in florida that have good reason to be upset, because they've lost people think the economy tanked because of the last administration, that's not relevant. what's relevant we're in charge. right now we are the ones in charge. and it's gotten better, but it hasn't gotten good enough.

in states like florida, it's even been more stagnant because and so i don't blame them for being mad. we're in charge. >> ouch! chief political correspondent for "the washington examiner" is here. well, is he going to the woodshed or not? >> i think this could be the most spectacularly off message thing joe biden has ever said. >> greta: or honest. you know, honest. >> it is. it is. mean, for the first year, when president obama was in office, i mean he got a lot of slack on bush. but, you know, when the president was campaigning for democratic candidates in october of 2010, up to the midterm elections, it was all about how republicans drove it in the ditch, it was their fault, there was a lot of blame. now we're 2 1/2 years into the look at some of these wahv$c! z%dc)jw

a blaming bush. it's getting a little harder for people to accept it. here's the vice president just going way off the reservation. >> greta: is he going way off the reservation or stating the opposite? i mean, the president did inherit a rotten economy, but trend, whetherjgucçdíwg same. it's been disappointing in terms of a trend. is vice president biden supposed to pretend it's great and cheerful and everything is terrific when every single day we hear the horrible numbers? >> the president owns everything that's been done to try to fix the economy. i mean, he owns the stimulus. he owns obama care. these thing, but what you're seeing the public is beginning to blame him for the state of the economy. a new gallop poll asked who do

you blame for the economy. you could blame bush and obama both. a record number of people are 53%. 60% of&a2# blaming obama as well as bush. >> greta: i sort of appreciate candor iné these numbers. they are what they are. whether it's housing starts, unemployment, jobless claims. i mean, they are what they are. vice president biden says they're in charge, there's been some improvement, but that it's very -- essentially disappointing. if he had said anything else, it >> well, the white house was biden's comments, well, theaid, election is going to be a lot more, but of course the president is going to run on his own record, what he's done to help fix the economy. so, i mean, they're going to own, but still this is kind of

off message for him to come out and say this. >> greta: so what happens? my guess is they all cringed a bit. and i think the vice president will massage his message a little bit so he doesn't say it so clearly next time. >> greta: he has a reputation for saying it like it is. >> the definition of a gaffe in accidentally tell the trut in this case, i think you're right. improving, then they're somewhat they really believe that? i know that's what they say publicly, but do they think they're on the right track?

>> greta: politically or the economy? >> they're worried about the substance of the economy. we all want it to get better. there's a lot of fears that it won't. the message of it could have been worse, it would have been worse if we hadn't done what he did, that's a tough message for re-election, because it's acknowledging that people are very unhappy. it's acknowledging that progress has been inadequate. did, gosh, it could be even worse. >> greta: i think that's a scare tactic. when you ask for the job, you say you can do the job, make things better. either they are or they aren't with things like the economy. >> i think you'll hear the republican presidential >> greta: byron, noise to see you. >> greta: new information about solyndra. your tax dollars went to help build a $733 million factory and facility only put to use a little more than a year before

the company went belly up. inside solyndra's former digs disney tunes, spa showers with lcd temperature displays, and glass-walled conference]wõgl than 1,100 people out of work in a brand-new facility that spans 300,000 square feet sits empty in the middle of silicon valley. why was the obama administration so convinced this project would be a success? here's vice president joe biden in september of 2009. >> thexxñ?ñ? loan to solyndra wl allow you to build a new manufacturing facility. business community, and hundreds output of solar panels throughout the country. it's important. it's important, because these jobs are going to be permanent

there's the green jobs. these are the jobs that won't be exported. these are the jobs that are going to define the 21st century, and the jobs that are going allow america to compete and lead like question in the 20thiññ?ñ century. >> greta: the vice president probably wishes we had lost that video. he made those comments before the fall 2009v the fancy solyndra building. the facility was complete in mid-2010, and just this month it shut down. yes, you got left holding the bag. here's a look at what's coming up on the show on "the o'riley factor." >> bill: will governor perry that's coming up. >> greta: 2/3 of the u.s. cities just got great news. was it your city? don't pop that champagne cork,

at least not yet. we'll tell you why the celebration is on hold. and a parking ticket in new jersey could end up wrecking a happy home. you might not believe it. that strange story coming up. [ kristy ] my mom is well...weird. she won't eat eggs without hot sauce. she has kind of funny looking toes. she's always touching my hair. and she does ts ncing finger thing. [ male announcer ] with advanced technology from ge,

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>> from america's news headquarters, i'm marianne rafferty. damage testimony on thsday in the wrongful death trial against michael jackson's doctor. a bodyguard telling the court that the doctor told him to hide vials of medicine before calling 911. prosciewshts say he gave the singer a lethal dose of powerful sedative and then tried to cover it up. he said that the singer accidentally killed himself. the u.s. ambassador to syria will stay in the country, despite an attack by an angry mob in damascus thursday, as he visited the office of a syrian

opposition figure. he was pelted with rocks, eggs and to maltos. he and the staff were not hurt. now back to "on the record." for all of your latest headlines, go to foxnews.com. t. for your latest headline goes to fox news. >> so are you ready for the big news? here it s unemployment rates fell in two-thirds of u.s. cities last month. great news, huh? think again. here to explain is economics reporter for "wall street journal". it's good news, but just not profound its not prof yound anywhere. looks like we're going see it go up before it comes down because the economy has shown so little job creation over last few months with the debt keeling and just this general lack of confidence among

businesses and consumer. >> greta: so we're going to see numbers soon? >> we're going to get numbers. if you look at recent ones, where the economy showed no job growth in august, the unemployment rate didn't rise. when you see that, the rate should rise about 100,000 jobs per month just to keep pace with growth in the population of the country. >> greta: one of the latest reports lists highest metropolitan area rates in august, 2011 in el centro california, yuma, california, 29.4%. merced, 17.5%. yuba city, 17%, stockton, 16.1%. why is california just leading the pack in terms of unemployment? >> well, some of the things are actually from that rate dropped so it's not that great news when they're seeing it at high levels. if it drops it doesn't mean

much for them. these are all cities that are california, nevada, arizona, florida, they're all in the pack of the worst unemployment. they're hit by the housing crisis. and when hit by housing crisis it means fewer construction jobs available, they're not going to see rebound in the construction industry and people are trained in that area. some cities as well as el centro being the places that are having any agricultural sector. so when harvest season comes around sometimes it picks up a little bit. they're just dealing with too many blows at one time. >> greta: the thick about this housing crisis is that if you're underwater and lost a job in town, and you find a job 100 miles away you can't afford to move. this added another layer to this in terms of ability to

pick up yourself and try to get going. >> that is right. the problem is that there are no easy solutions to dealing with this. everything that has been conceived usually includes throwing money at the problem. we've a lot of money already in trying to deal in terms of pumping up mortgage backers as well. when you deal with that problem, to deal with it requires a lot more effort and money. there isn't political work force. >> greta: outside of the administration do you have conversation was business people who say administration is on the right track? >> some people think it is getting some of the things right. a lot of economists think that the economy needs more stimulus, and longer term deficit reduction, dealing with longer -- as you know, the health care problem that explodes the deficit down the road. if you disagree about cuts, everyone agrees you need median and long term deficit

reduction. on the same front, best mix is to come up with something smart that can be a mix of tax cuts and a kind of project to boost the economy that. is what we're seeing some discussion of. everybody seems to recognize that whatever we've done isn't enough. that is because this is just a unemployment is a slow motion catastrophe. the government and political system usually set up to just deal with big disasters and big problems. >> greta: nice to see you. >> thank you. >> straight ahead jon stewart only talking politics? well not exactly. talking food. this is one you have to see to believe it. and a police chief lays down the law. this has put him in the dog house. ♪

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>> greta: you've seen our top stories but here is the best of the rest. bill o'reilly interview went off the rails when muffin madness took center stage. >> you've got to down size the government so they can watch what's happening and make intelligent decisions. it's insane. right now, look. the $16 muffin. we know what the $16 muffin is? see? you don't know what the $16

muffin is. >> what neighborhood do you live in? who makes a $16 muffin? >> this is great. $16 muffin broke the story last week on "the factor". you were otherwise occupied. making your little wise remarks. not reading what's happening. there were a bunch of conferences for pinheads in the government. they ordered 250 muffins at $16 a piece. >> that is a lot of muffin. >> yes. do you know what? i paid for the muffins. so did you. >> i understand that. >> let me, are you familiar with wall street? >> no. >> and there is an idea... is that lopsided federal government? no. it's not. >> interestingly enough they had a little problem that added up to what i believe is more than $16 times 250

muffins. >> and o'reilly appeared on the daily show to promote his brand new book. and a parking problem could turn into mirror tall troubles for this new jersey couple. she went to park in front of her 5-year-old seas soon. she took up two spaces now her friends probably thought she'd get away with it. her husband is a police chief. her husband wasn't having it, instructing officers to ticket his wife for double parking the chief may not have given her special treatment but you can bet his wife gave him special treatment when he got home f you can't get tail gators to the strip club, there is a new lounge popping up outside of the detroit lions games this schblt outfitted with stripper poles and can be rented for private events. we don't know what is included but can start guessing.

police say owners are running an illegal estabsh so we're going to watch to see if he returns next monday night. that is october 10th. and the so great, apparently pet shrimp are all the rage this year, these expensive breeds are taking over tanks. the glow fish are called blue velvet shrimp. the dark brown ones are called chocolate shrimp. two are auctioned off for more than, ready for this? $500. get this. they only live about a year. there, you have it. the best of the rest. and coming up did hall mark's new business strategy just go up in smoke? conan reports where mauer, you got dandruff? actually, head & shoulders is for more than dandrf.

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>> greta: not just birthdays and valentine's day keeping hall mark in business. the card maker is now cashing in on people who lose a job, conan thinks he found a hick up in the strategy. >> hall mark launch aid theme of recession-themed cards that say sorry you lost your job. and more depressing they're made in china. >> and the unfunny truth is that a huge number of hall mark cards are not made in china. thanks for joining us tonight. make sure you go to greta wire.com. open thread for you. o'reilly factor is next. good night.