government is shoveling out billions of loans and could cost you, the taxpayer millions for green jobs. is that a waste ofour green? welcome to forbes on fox. teave forbex. and rich and victoria and elizabeth and kim mccols . steve, is that a waste of the money all of the green cash for green projects. >> it makes you what solar system these burrcrats occupy. the private sector put upwards 16 billion and risked money of their own. what is the government doing? good for tanning beds for the jersey shore. for taxpayer it is a sun stroke. >> kim, when as we saw from solyndra the government picks winners we all lose. >> i don't agree with sending money to solyndra.

i do agree and not a waste of money to invest in solar installations where that energy is going directly in the grid and we have to be energy independent nation especially in california. >> but victoria. lk at the price. i hope and pray we are able to get our energy from the sun. right now, it is not price efficient. one is $311 for kilowat hour. that is the price for one from a spanish company that they dumped and then a regular solar project is $210 per megawatt hour. natural gas is only $66. we are wasting a fortune here. >> the numbers don't add up. and kim mentions california's

goal. they have set up the arbitration system where this is a wonderful pie in the sky and gosh, we have to spend billion to get there. the billions come from taxpayers because the green so-called sustainable energy is not economically sustainable. it is not close to the cost of natural gas and oil it is not realistic and the taxpayers are on the hook. >> so it is just pie in the sky? >> i don't think so. green energy is the future and if you go back to the map. divide how many people in the armed forces versus what we have spent on defense. a trillion dollars . that is hollow argument. if you look for what the center for american process. two million job to start and a 50-50 split 100 billion we could have 8 million and green energy

is the future and stop pulling it out of the ground and look at what the next equation is here. >> the fact is, 1100 jobs were lost as a result of solyndra going bankrupt. it was the model project of the administration . that's why the president went there. the first main green project of the stimulus spending. this was the big cahuna and it failed miserably. and taxpayer money was spent on blding a glitsy new factory. i, too, am for green energy. we have talked about it since jimmy carter when he wanted to launch a solar bank. it is cash for flunkers and instead of funding companies. fund research and development and energy sector is low in expenditures on the rnd. and versus the computer and auto.

instead of fund the companies. fund the research. we are incubaiting bad companies that are tying to all sorts of political donors. >> cash for flunkers that. is a good one. >> yeah, that is a good one. the only solar that will make a difference is space based solar and that is half century out. we are floating on a sea of natural gas and that's where we should put our investment. i could support government loans to convert our fleet to run on natural gas and that would give you a critical mass to get this industry going and conservative friends who think that all government support is wasted, i would say the interstate highway system and government spent first billion on the semiconductor energy. it is not the fact that you are spending on technologies of the future, it is the wrong technologies that the obama

administration has fallen for the solar nonsense. >> steve, i would say to rich. i usually agree with you. i am only with you 80 percent. when you have the government involved you have burrcrats and politicians picking winners and losers and that is not efficient way to do it. >> it is all down to politics and in terps of solar energy one thing they haven't cracked where they should put research money is storage. stipes the sun doesn't come through. until they do, it is a huge waste of the money. >> kim, what gets me, it is bad enough to waste tax dollars on u.s. companies, but we are spending billions on a spanish company that got 130 mill 81 for a bioinjury project this week after solyndra. and the spanish government cut it off. and the u.s. is bailing out one of our companies. why are we spending money on

foreign companies like this? >> we are spending half a on depending oil asets over seas. what is that to help us be a more injury. >> it is billion and frankly a few hundred million. >> it is better than spending oilassets over seas and giving money to countries that hate us. let's be energy independent. >> why is it a choice between two bad options. cut off the one that you know is not working? >> right, the problem is, these were such great ideas. if solar was just around the corner to be cost competitive which it is not, you would see private investors flooding the market without government backing. i mean, you have really impressive investors in these companies like goldman saches. no way they woulde in these

deals without the government backing tup and taxpayers there to stimulate the area. >> that iserate right. >> we subsidicize the oil trea in this country heavily and the natural gas. >> hold on one at a time. >> if it was a great idea the private sector would be all over it. you are sees citigroup and bp chevron investing in the projects and waiting for the government to come in and it gets circled back to spending on lobbyist. >> and the law said it is not supposed to happen, the private sector that get paid off for solyndra before taxpayers do. we have to wrap it up. china is more business friendly than the united states? coca-cola's chief said it is true and he has a plan to put america back on top. cashin in on that o. and helping people out of work.

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>> good morning, everybody know. i am jamie colby. fox news confirming the capture of a terrorist in afghanistan. he's a key member of the haqqani network . u.s. officials say that group was behind the attack on the u.s. embassy last month. it is a day after the killing of al-awlaki. we will have much more on this. stay tuned for fox news reporting, the american terrorist today 3:00 p.m. on fox. a gusty cold front creating a dangerous situation in the midwest. look at video from chicago. monstrous wavos lake michigan. the joggers and bike riders

trugling to stay on their feet. keep it here in america's news headquarters. >> is it me. >> this is the special on 15 anniversary store. biggest names in business and politicings. join us for the celebration. on monday. all of those extended jobless benefits are overextending the government budgets. and just in interest on money. and now they are trying to make up the cash by raising tax on job correctors. that is keeping them from hiring. >> i think it is a real vicious

cycle and what you have in a few states is a situation where we are giving money to unemployed people and making it easier to be unemployed and softening that blow and raising taxes on the very people who create new jobs. we can talk about let's create new yobs and train people and create green jobs. and they will not do hiring. >> the road to hell was paved with good intentions for the unemployment benefits and sometimes they have perverse ruments? >> this is something that congress passed and approved the extension of the benefits and the states didn't have money to pay them and they borrowed from the federal government. what are you successing here? are you suggesting we don't have any benefits for people out of

work? theyingly all be living under a bridge is that what you are suggesting last person i would say is cold and heartless is victoria. >> she is right. shy is further right to focus. large businesses have cash balances and the small businesses do not and they create 75 or 85 percent of the jobs coming out of a recession and they are not. when you talk to them it is a wall of uncertainty and this is a brick in the wall of uncertainty. i sympathize with mark's side. you sympathize for the people.

and it is a regularatory and tax uncertainty. >> sympathy is perverse and doesn't help anybody. is that what happened with the unemployment benefits. it is a vicious cycle and the cost of unemployment aid and taxes are not a big piece of that. you have a place like new york and connecticut that are pushing the cost for employers and going to victoria's point, like ohio and california, idaho. and yeah, this is an issue and it is not a larger issue. we want to look at taxs and how they are affecting jobs. look at slashing the tax that comes in if that company is not getting taxed so harshly.

it gets to the point are these helping or hurting. like many government actions we mean well and doing bad things. extending the unemployment benefit system keeping more people out of the work. it is a billion in interest. 27itates owe close to 40 billion for lay off benefits. do we think that they will pay that money back? we wouldn't have to extend it for two years if we did our own savingings. we ought to have a tax free account that you go to after 32 weeks. >> hold on, gang. >> and you don't step on the boss's line and you had your chance. steve, what do you think? >> in and of itself it will not destroy jobs. but there is unemployment from a thousand tax hikes and little things here and there and suddenly you find out it is hard

to. and the companies fat with cash and they are paying huge bonuses to ceos and we are overlooking giving tax breaks to the companies. dick >> mark makes a point there is two trillion in cash that the companies have. i will not hire someone today. they are not seeing business opportunity in this country and that is a macroissue that is

tied to taxes and overregulation. >> why are they giving big fat bonuses. >> we'll leave that and up next. europe is going bust and how a international bail out fund might hit us for extra cash. what about our own 14 trillion dollar debt? looking good! you lost some weight.

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grease is teetering on the detail. and steve, is it time to cut off the imf? >> it stands for infinitely more funding . it rewards failure and put in austeriery and they put on higher tax devaultate their currency and tightens the belt until the country drops dead. >> i think it is idiotic that the europeans are bailing out greece because they show no signs of getting their house in order. why should we? >> i think it is great on paper not to give ims. like it or not we are connected to their economy. it is in the process.

and banks are exposed. the doctor might grow in strength. and a lot of people lost it. and it is unclear how much they are exposed to europe. they are cutting their exposure rapidly to europe. i think steve is right. ims is not standing for i am for bailing out countries . the president gave imf money and here's the issue. instead of ims lending money. let others finance the loan and not the united states.

and mark, you are again corporate bail outs . and so that is what they are? >> there is something to be said for that. imf provides going back to steve's point. let mexico and chile and argentina fail. >> but what about the imf. history shows. >> let me finish what i am my point. can i finish what i want to say. it is a problem and we are flirting with another great depression here. i think -- >> and dennis weigh in? >> hsbc came out and said if europe defaults and we are looking at another world wide great depression. i point out i don't think europe

matters anymore. yes, with draw money from imf. i am sick of funding our and we should be tightening our belts and start charging europe for our defense forces i am not sure the imf saved any nation. >> thank . ly it is not europe's stand. but they do far more harm than good. stop harming the patient. >> stop bleeding the patient. when we come back. pile up the cash and not p

the debt. >> your debt, we have stocks to bail you out. dennis, how beaten down banks are. >> less than nine times earning and 130 billion cash . wait two weeks and then buy it. >> morgan you like it? >> not really it is a down trend. >> you like the melon. >> you like cigarettes. >> market shares are eroding. >> you like a canadian oil company. >> love the monthly dividends. >> world economy is slowing down and driller will go down. >> that's it, gang. keep it right here. it continues with carbin in and cheryl casewne. >> if is easy tore do business in chynna. those stunning