no gamble coming up, watch cavuto. >> president gone with the gipper, has he got it wrong? i'm charles payne in for cavuto and white house making a case for tax hikes on the rich. >> this is ronald reagan in 1985, in theory some of the loopholes are understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay doing, the bus driver paying 10% of his salary, that's crazy. >> there's a clip floating around lately on television talking about the radical guy who made the simple point that a bus driver shouldn't be paying lower tax rates than a millionaire. and this rabble rouser was named ronald reagan. >> so the next time you hear one of those republicans in congress accusing you of class warfare, you just tell them,

i'm with ronald reagan. >> while the president wants to ditch loopholes. >> to ben stein, dagen mcdowell, adam lashinsky and charlie gasperino, is that the right play book? >> closing loopholes and lowering the marginal tax rates is the right economic play book. i'm shaken, kind of like the richard simmons video, barack obama comparing himself to ronald reagan is really an amazing, let's not call it a lie, but a massive stretch of the truth. >> here is the thing though the stakes are big, dagen and the idea is it's okay to go this route because the reagan did it, but we know that reagan didn't do that. we know that reagan was a tax cutter that taxes went down and a few times where taxes went up, but overall the philosophy less taxes and less government intervention and we had a pretty good economy after that. >> president obama wants to get rid of some loopholes for people and groups he does not

care for and raise tax rates and that is not tax reform. tax reform is, yes, cutting loopholes and that means that, that means closing them. that means getting rid of tax expenditures and that's going to mean people give up some things they like, even the mortgage deduction, however, tax reform means simplification, it means job creation, it means cutting rates and dramatically. 86 tax reform, top rate went from 50% to 28, so for what you give up, the tax expenditures, and loopholes, you get lower rates and you get a juiced economy. >> ben, by invoking ronald reagan does the whole plan, president obama's plan become more palatable to republicans than let's say independents? >> well, i would say that since i'm the oldest of the group. remind you what an amazing thing, we had the most liberal president, probably, of all time, evoking ronald reagan aen saying, i'm following in the spirit of ronald raeg eagan

icon to the left wing. in fact, ronald reagan did raise taxes every year, and cut some loopholes and i'm probably the only one old enough to be a fairly high income taxpayer at the time. those loophole closings hurt a lot. but for him to be claiming generally following in the footsteps of ronald reagan is basically comical. >> adam, here we are, really, seems like a the lot of what 2012 is going to be about, how do we pay for the bills we've amassed through time. will it be through spending cuts or will it be from tax hikes? obviously, the president's going with tax hikes, but does that really work? because, all the evidence i see says, you know what if you unleash the money that people actually earn and actually go to the bottom line, and everyone-- >> well, i understand the philosophy, charles. we don't know if we have any sort of clear demonstration that it's ever happened, as

ben just pointed out, it's not exactly what president reagan did, he raised taxes because he also raised spending dramatically. i want to point out to all of you you, especially you, charlie, the president obama wasn't comparing himself to ronald reagan. >> oh, no? >> oh, no. >> i'm not finished, i'm not finished. he was pointing out that he was using a similar argument to one that president reagan-- >> and that's communicating. >> that's my only points. >> now what's scary about this, and here, this is a campaign speech. this is not an economic plan. this is never going to happen. this is class warfare campaigning and using ronald reagan's-- comparing himself to reagan in any way is one of the most absurd things i've seen in a long time coming out of a very economically stirred presidency. >> go ahead, adam. >> i don't disagree with you it's a campaign speech. every time he uses the expression class warfare.

>> millionaires are doing-- >> expression class warfare, they're campaigning. i agree with you, but to advocate for simplifying the tax code and this is a president we all admire. >> no, no, no. >> wait a sec. if he's-- >> this is not tax reform. this is him wanting to close a couple of loopholes for people he doesn't like. tax reform is a greater vision. >> 86 and even jfk did it, got rid of loopholes and cut the top rates from 91 to 70%. president obama is not talking about tax reform otherwise he would have gotten on board with the-- >> charlie, charlie, one second because we've got to bring ben in, the elder statesman. ben, you've said that tough decisions will have to be made right now and i think you agree that part of those tough decisions will being tax hikes on millionaires and billionaires? >> i think there's no doubt about it and as a person who has had a great many mortgages on a great many houses, i'm going to feel a lot of pain, i'm going to yell and shriek

about it and cry to my wife, but i think it has to be done and i don't think that that's part of the comparison is incorrect. reagan did lower taxes dramatically, but he also did close loopholes. >> we're not talking about lowering tax rates, ben, for anybody. he's going to close loopholes and hike rates. >> i believe i said that part of the comparison-- >> does anybody in their right mind think what obama is doing is tax reform? come on, this is-- >> tax reform? >> adam, i will say this, the president took something of a hit when even democrats in the senate are saying, look, you're going too far with these tax hikes, particularly if you want to hit, even, you know, people making $250,000, he couldn't get his own jobs bill through his own party because of this campaign, to sort of raise taxes on people. that's got to be a serious red flag for the administration. >> well, i think that's a fair point and i also think it's fair to question the timing.

it's unfortunate that we have a campaign going on at a time when we have a serious economic problem. by the way, he hasn't even been specific about what the he so-called hikes would look r ha. i've been in favor of the thing that warren buffett is talking about, the people who make bulk of income from investments to expire. i agree with that. but rich people who make millions of dollars in ordinary income every year, are already paying high taxes on that. >> i think if neil was her, he would say that's a fox news alert. thank you very much. okay, guys. >> would he really say that? >> and green jobs or waste of your green. we're not talking about the slen d solyndra loan. this might be worse. >>

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temur-pedic the most highly recommended bed in america. [ cellphone rings ] cut! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com. >> good morning everyone, live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. the nationwide listeria

outbreak in cantaloupe now responsible for 21 deaths according to the cbc and that number could rise. so far 109 people have gotten sick in 23 states. the recall sparked last month because of tainted cantaloupe at a colorado fruit farm, but it's now being expanded to pre-cut slices of cantaloupe as well. and the search for a ten month old girl in missouri entering its fifth day. investigators yesterday scouring a landfill the second time this week. that's lisa irwin, her parents claiming she disappeared from her krcrib in the middle of the night. the no suspects, but police are claiming the mother failed a lie detector test and the family is no longer cooperating. don't miss judge jeanine, she has an interview with those parents tonight at nine. keep it here on fox, i'm jamie colby. >> the job market still struggling. the president's plan so-called green jobs, still reeling. first, bombshell that the head

of the u.s. department of energy's loan program which doles out that disastrous solyndra loan is stepping down. a 500 million dollar green job training program only helped 800 jokes get a job not the 80,000. and wants money turned to tax papers. ben stein? >> we've seen government trying to pick winners and losers and since the late 50's and imitating the french, thinking the french had the right idea. it never ever works and it's not going to work in green jobs. let the market decide. we have a well functioning system, where it works. let's stop picking on the oil companies and let the free market make the decisions and get out of the government

picking winners and losers. >> the numbers are mind biology. 500 million there, 700 million there, it's all gone, what's going on? >> we should be thankful the 300 million wasn't spent. down the way the programs have been run-- >> who has money. >> burn the money and burn the bills and call it green energy because they weren't actually using like electricity or electric heat? and that-- but the point is that you cannot just create jobs out of thin air and these programs, how many more times do we need to say the programs are inefficient, they're poorly run. loan program, for general accountable office reports on that loan program not being efficient, not being well run and we still wound up with half a billion dollar solyndra loan. >> it's amazing charlie. we keep pouring hundreds of millions, billions into this stuff. >> and i think the real scandal is solyndra, whatever you call it, you i can't

pronounce the name. stimulus money went into it. shovel ready jobs, 800 billion dollars on shovel ready jobs, unemployment down to 8%, if you follow their logic would have been more like 7% now yet we put it into sort of pie in the sky technologies like solyndra. if you asked me about the scandal here, that's the scandal. why we wasted stimulus money on a pie in the sky technology. >> adam, are you somewhat torn? you're a serious financial guy, but i know you're an ideological guy and you believe that we should have green energy, but he when you see a plant that gets enough money to create maybe 15 jobs at 20 million per or 7 jobs at 32 million dollars per job, that's unreasonable. >> no, i'm not an ideological guy and i think we're trying to make an ideological argument out of something that's not ideological. >> is this an economically feasible thing we're doing? >> here is where i agree and where i disagree. i agree we should not, this

should not have been crafted as a jobs program. it isn't. it's an investment in technology. we have a long history of investing in pie in the sky technology, i'll give you two examples, the space program, and the internet. and the stimulus program. >> it could not have existed, could not have existed without the government-- >> i mean, i agree. so the question becomes-- >> the internet was something that we-- and already knew that it already worked and a vital defense program, so was the manhattan project, so was the vital defense programs, they knew that the internet worked, that was done by the defense department long before the computer industry. we knew that the nuclear bomb was going to work. >> and here is the thing, adam. >> didn't know the internet was going to work, they invented it and-- >> here is what we're talking about, adam. the freeway markets saw this thing sitting there that the department of defense, created for itself and said, you know what? there are so many more

applications for this thing, however, when you bring up that, or maybe the space department and we got out of that, i'll give you that much, and-- >> we've got a lot more than pain. >> the fact of the matter it, let's be realistic, the arizona solar plant contract recently they're using chinese panels, and when does this end? we can't afford this, we simply cannot i a ford it. >> charles, i'm saying that reasonable people can agree or disagree that solar energy, for example, it's something that the united states could put, the united states government could put a lot, could put a lot of money in and then, reasonable people could agree or disagree he on how to put that money in. and what we've done-- >> i guess the op tiff word is a reasonable amount of money to lose on this. >> what would reasonable people say that we use stimulus money on something on a technology like this? what would a reasonable person, adam, say about that? that that is incompetence. don't you agree? >> what's a reasonable outcome. >> do you agree? >> no, let him finish.

>> let adam finish, guys. >> you agree with that, don't you. >> i'd rather it all be cast as basic signs, basic technology, as opposed to stimulus, i have no problem agreeing with you on that. >> now why we don't have much stimulus effect from the stimulus. >> dave: ben? >> by the way, the intention of the internet cost pennies, a tiny government investment and worked spectacularly from day one and we knew it would work and we knew that china would dominate solar panels for years and we kept pouring money down that rat hole. >> because the government has made stupid mistakes in the past, i've dated a lot of dufuses in my life and not going to shack up with-- >> let's leave it on that fantastic note. >> and the economy on the brink, is this senator inviting another financial crisis? >> bank of america customers, vote with your feet. get the heck out of that bank. >> that's at the top of the hour. up next, talk about getting french fried. first that country putting a

squeeze on american ketchup to preserve its culture and now taxing americans to fight obesity. i think i smell peppy le piu. at adt, we get financing from ge capital. but they also go beyond banki. we installed a ge fleet monitoring system. it tracks every vehicle in their fleet. it cuts fuel use. koch: it enhances customer service. it's pretty amazing when people who loan you money also show you how to save it. not just money, knowledge. it's so much information, it's like i'm right there in every van in the entire fleet. good day overall. yeah, i'good. come on in. let's go. wow, this is fantastic. ge capital. they're not just bankers. we're builders. they helped build our business. [ female announcer ] somhing unexpected to the world of multigrain... taste. ♪ delicious pringles multigrain.

with a variety of flavors, multigrain pops with pringles. >> coming up, fighting fat in france by putting a tax on american soda. if you want to go to the

♪ >> call it the french revolution part dieux. they're slapping a tax on american drinks like coke, and putting the squeeze on ketchup

in the schools. are you ready for a food fight? >> i don't care they do that. i'm a big-- so now i'm a huge ketchup fan i put ketchup on chicken and fish and i know it sounds gross, but go in high end restaurants and do that. the french think that ketchup is bad for you. >> you don't think they're trying to stick it to our companies, and coke a quarter of profits from europe and heinz a third of the profit. >> they have socialized medicine and probably think some of this is bad for you. >> i don't know, do you put ketchup on the fish. >> i would eat ketchup on anything, eat ketchup on bread. >> i don't put ketchup on spaghetti. >> and the way the europe is going. denmark put out a fat tax on anything buttery or high in fat. >> what's wrong with that, if they have socialized medicine. >> if you're a socialist society that's fine, but in america that's not going to fly, you've seen the taxes-- people don't want the

government telling them what to do. >> and also, you know, ben, you know, the thing is the government is saying that any government is saying they want to control obesity and people's behavior when in fact, to me it looks like another desperate attempt by a european country to get money any way it can to prop up the system that doesn't work in reality. >> i'm reminded of this. that i think that president reagan said that ketchup was a vegetable and he could put it in school lunch rooms and count it as a vegetable and maybe we could explain that to-- explain that to president sarkozy of france, and explain to him that ketchup is actually a vegetable. it's almost alto mate toes and tomatoes are incredibly good for you. it's francion phobia and snobbishness, the money they'll raise is inconsequence, a way of them of thumbing their nose at awes again.

>> i have cautionary tales out of anything out of europe for america. and the money raising doesn't go to health program is goes to shore up social security and pensions and maybe it's more of a desperate way of holding up something that is falling apart behind the scenes? >> well, we may be shall may be overthinking this just a little bit. ben, ketchup is made up of tomatoes, it's true, a little bit of sugar and i think that-- >> sugar is good, too. >> and point of why it's generally not healthy. by the way, we put stiff regulations on cigarettes in this country long before the europeans do, guess what, cigarettes really aren't good for you. >> you're sure they're not comparing-- >> you cannot, you cannot be comparing cigarettes to ketchup, please, please. >> i can. >> oh, please, very far out. >> and captain crunch doesn't give you lung cancer. i don't know how in your right mind that you put the same two-- >> let me tell you you

something if ketchup was bad for you, i would be dead by now. i would be dead by now. >> adam ten seconds left. if this is a sin tax we're seeing that, toll hikes and flying an airplane. i agree with ben, this is a tough one, a stretch. if you're going to make ketchup a sin on par with cigarettes we're in trouble. we will he' have to leave it there. thanks to charlie and dagen. >> they should tax bo. >> and americans are worried about having enough tax for retirement. and ben is here with picks to set you up for your golden years. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one.

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>> ben, what do you have? >> because it is beat down so much. i am take efa, the index fund and developing . nations.

they are hit so hard. there has to be a pony and come back. adam do you like haone in >> i have no problem. it is more specific. i don't think we should be trying that hard. >> over the last 15 years people haven't done that well. what is the pick get them over the hump. >> i say total stock market index. >> i love it. this is the way you invest. we don't know what is going up and down. >> great pick. super pick. >> after all of these years, you got adam on board . next we in the stock picking segment. >> excellent. excellent. and in the meantime stay tuned. forbes on fox is next.