the governor getting ready to debut a plan of his own. details and its surprising supporters straight ahead. "fox & friends" starts right now. >> welcome aboard, folks. we'd like to start this morning by thanking the vice president. he never lets us down and gives us plenty to talk about on a weekly basis. >> right. was he ad-libbing or speaking from the gut? >> this is a pattern! he was doing this last week, too. we'll tell you what he said in a moment. in the meantime, a fox news alert. moments ago, secretary of state hillary clinton announcing she's headed to pakistan, headed to islamabad where she'll lead a delegation of obama administration officials in talks with pakistani officials. ties between the two countries, as we know, have been a bit strained over counterterrorism issues. secretary clinton saying "we intend to push pakistan very hard."

new video out of kansas city, missouri, this morning. police working well into the night scouring the home of missing baby lisa irwin. csi agents using everything from shovels to bomb detection gear. they even ordered a temporary no-fly zone over the home so the search would not be disturbed. earlier in the day, investigators left the home with two brown paper bags. lisa's parents are not allowed back in their home until police say they can do so. an update on that house of horrors investigation in philadelphia where four mentally challenged people were kept in a basement dungeon while three people stole their social security checks. now three teenagers thought dead have been found alive. the missing teens related to victims or suspects in this case. some have burn marks and wounds from pellet guns. a developing story right now out of greece. check out these live pictures. look at all the people. chaos breaking out in the

streets there. a record breaking number of protesters are gathered outside of the parliament building in athens because of a controversial austerity measure expected to be passed this morning. what will this measure do? it already won initial approval last night and includes major tax increases as well as pension cuts. lindsay lohane posting $100,000 bail after a judge ripped her for not following probation orders. listen to this. >> miss lohan's actions deliberately made it impossible for him to perform her sentence at the downtown women's center. probation, as you know, as the prosecutor knows and always has been in my view is a gift and there's something called looking a gift horse in the mouth. >> wow, i like that judge. >> superior court judge accused lohan of bailing on her community service and lying to cover it up. all this stemming from a 2007 drunk driving case and a

misdemeanor theft charge from earlier this year. lohan had been back in court on november 2nd to see whether she'll actually have to go back to jail. just do the community service, you're right. probation, a gift! it's for the jail time. >> hey, you know, we've been talking about this jobs plan and the president has not stopped really, never really addressed republican leaders, went on the road with it to sell his plan. it didn't get anywhere in the senate. you know that. they're going to -- the democrats say we're going to try to pass this piece by piece. the first piece will be voted on friday. >> that's right. and so the president and joe biden have been out pushing it. what's interesting is we're going to play something the vice president said on tuesday at houston hall at the university of pennsylvania. and he has doubled down on it. essentially what he's saying is that unless we pass this jobs bill, rates will increase if the republicans stand in their way. not making that up.

>> everything i've heard proposing this whole jobs bill is this is just temporary. let me tell you, it's not temporary when that 911 call comes in and a woman is being raped and does not show up in time to help. it's not temporary if the guy whose store is being held up and there's a gun pointed at his head and the cop shows up and he's not killed, that's not temporary to that store owner! give me a break! temporary. >> this is an emergency. 300,000 teachers have been laid off. >> in many cities, the result has been and it's not unique. murder rates are up, robberies are up, rapes are up. ladies and gentlemen, response times have gone from five minutes to over an hour in some of your cities. >> all right. so many people are saying that this is part of a campaign strategy. at the top of the show, we said

maybe this was just a one time event. nope, because last week when he was in flint, michigan, i believe, he did the same sort of scare tactics. now, does this remind anyone of the health care scare tactics when some of those ads -- >> die quickly? >> die quickly and then that was followed by ads where they were pushing the woman off the cliff in the wheelchair. >> grandma. >> this is obviously a scare tactic of which, you know, look, when you say rapes and murders are going to go up in a community. you get people's attention, right? this is all part of a campaign strategy but the fact of the matter is, is it actually true? that's what somebody needs to find out. is it actually true? >> it's interesting. a fellow by the name of jason materra who has been on this program a number of times. he works for human events, he caught up with joe biden yesterday and he asked the vice president, did the vice president regret using a rape reference to describe g.o.p. opposition to the president's jobs bill? here's the vice president. >> do you regret using a rape reference to describe republican

opposition? >> no, what i said -- let's get it straight, guys. don't screw around with me. let's get it straight. >> did you use a rape reference? >> listen to me. >> i'm listening. >> i said rape was up three times. those are the numbers. go look at the numbers. murder is up. rape is up. and burglary is up. that's exactly what i said. >> if the republicans don't pass this bill, then rape will continue to rise? >> murder will continue to rise. rape will continue to rise. all crimes will continue to rise. >> do you think it's appropriate for the vice president to use language in such a way? >> i'm sorry, we got to go. >> mr. vice president -- >> yeah, he's got to go. don't screw around with me. >> it's interesting because i bet on the vote friday, there's going to be democrats that are going to vote against this as well. >> then, i just hope when people go out and give speeches that they actually tell the truth. it's not just going to be republicans who are voting against this bill. and by the way, according to jason materra in this same article, he said that joe biden also said i wish they, meaning republicans, had some notion of what it was like to be on the other side of a gun or to have a

200 pound man standing over you telling you to submit. guess what? there's some women's groups now who are saying how can you say what it feels like for a woman to possibly be raped? so a lot of questions about some of the language being used on the campaign trail. >> the rnc released a memo and they are calling on women's groups to stand up and condemn the remarks and they're also calling them irresponsible and mean spirited and here's the question -- we, i think, as a nation are against rape and armed robbery but we have -- this portion of the bill costs $35 billion. the question is where do you get that money? and after we did this temporary spending and all those people lose jobs after being propped up for a year and things get economically worse, can we afford to put $35 billion into extending positions that are unaffordable for that state? >> plus, peekispeaking of stat police departments is a function of state and local governments. according to what i've read,

this particular jobs bill does not directly hire police officers. so what's he talking about there? >> only $5 billion of this money goes to first responders and the other $30 billion goes to teachers. >> that didn't stop the vice president from reaching out yesterday to 30 fourth graders at a york county, pennsylvania, grade school and he was making his pitch to them. listen. >> we think the federal government in washington, d.c. should say to the cities and the states, look, we're going to give you some money. 6 so you can hire back all those people and the way we're going to do it is we're going to ask people who have a lot of money to pay just a little bit more in taxes. >> you got to figure those kids -- >> why not just read a book? come on, the kids, when they have a famous person come or even just a parent or, you know, a sibling come to the classroom, they want to hear a book! politics to fourth graders? >> it's pretty cool that the vies president of the united states would be in their class. but i'm sure half of them are

going what does he do exactly? why is he talking about that? >> like having a famous football player show up and say ok, third graders, let's go over the west coast offense. no, i just want your autograph. >> let's talk about rick perry a little bit, making a comeback with regard to some of his policies he's putting out front and center. last week, he put out his economic plan. some people said finally. >> it was all about energy. >> it was. now he's going to put out a flat tax plan. the timing could be interesting because herman cain's 999 plan got so much attention and got eviscerated by all of the other republicans on the stage. could this be a good time for rick perry so say it's time for a flat tax, 17% across the board for most americans. >> apparently, that's what it's going to be. it's going to be a flat tax and steve forbes has revealed some details. he says they're still tweaking the numbers but apparently, no income on families until they hit $36,000 and then, anything over that, they would pay a flat

17% tax and, of course, that's what steve forbes himself, that was part of his platform when he was running for president back in 1996. >> and herman cain says i'm already amending and changing my 999 plan a little bit and i'm going to make sure i don't throw the poor under the bus so i think that herman cain will come forward and say here's what i want to change as we mentioned yesterday one of architects of it think they have to be fine tuned as well. >> that's right. stay tuned for that. the hunt for those wild and dangerous animals in ohio is over. all the animals released on tuesday from private farm now apparently accounted for. >> mike mccarthy is fox affiliate wtte live now from the columbus zoo with the very latest. it was my understanding that the one animal remaining was some sort of a monkey, right? now that animal has been killed or is in custody? >> well, they believe that animal has been killed by another animal that escaped. the search is completely over here in ohio. all the animals the sheriff's office believes have been accounted for.

that includes six animals that were rescued, captured and here behind me at the columbus zoo this morning. those animals actually include three leopards, two monkeys and a grizzly bear. let me walk you through this and show some of the animals that were shot and killed yesterday. there were many of them over muskegon county. there were 56 animals on this farm owned by terry thompson. they believe thompson opened the animals' cages and took his own life. the sheriff there defended his action saying public safety was his top priority which is why he said 49 of those animals were shot and killed on sight. those included 18 tigers, lions, a bamboon and wolves. that one monkey was believed to be missing late last night. he believes that one of the big cats killed that monkey earlier in the day. i'll tell you, it was a very frightening situation for those living nearby who called police for help. >> yeah, i think i just seen one. it looked like a jaguar or a wolf or something. it was in my yard. >> 911, what's your emergency?

>> yeah, there's a lion on mount perry road. i just drove by and it walked out in front of me and it was standing there. >> yeah, certainly something you don't expect to see in ohio. let alone anywhere across the country outside your front door. authorities do not know why thompson released the animals and they may never know that for sure because no suicide note was found on the property. thompson was released from prison a few weeks ago after serving a one year prison term on federal weapons charges. as for the weapons -- excuse me, as for the animals here at the zoo this morning, they are being kept in quarantine out of the general population, veterinarians here with the zoo will be checking on their health today and that's the primary concern, where they go from here is still up in the air. obviously, they are still legally owned by the thompsons over in muskegon county but jack hanna is working with them to try to figure out where they're going to go, whether it be here at the zoo or another zoo. live in ohio, i'm mike mccarthy, send it back to you. >> by the way, jack hanna will

be up with us as well. one of the things he said about it, he said it looked like noah's ark crashed right there. >> we'll ask him in a half-hour coming up. two senators say they have a way to fix the housing market and have foreigners buy our real estate and then give them visas. sound good? we'll report, you'll decide. >> plus is the white house throwing away more of your money? another grant went to a company that has yet to turn a profit. stu varney tackles that topic next. >> don't screw around with me, stu! [ male announcer ] cranberry juice? wake up! ♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8.

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steer clear of any company endorsed by 1600 pennsylvania avenue because they are throwing their support and our money behind yet another green energy company now in financial peril. >> stuart varney here with details. are we talking more about electric cars? and automobile? >> we're talking about green jobs companies that are close to going bust. it's solyndra 2, put it like that. i bring you the case of enerdel. that's a subsidiary of a larger company, gets $118 million to develop lithium ion batteries. joe biden goes on a visit to the plant. problem -- that company is now losing a ton of money, it's never made any money. and it put out a statement saying it's trying to find out whether it can stay in business. it's another example of the government shoving money and trying to act as a venture capitalist, trying to pick winners, trying to pick a winning industry with our taxpayer money making lousy choices and we end up losing a lot of money. >> well, apparently, this

company says one of our problems is we figured that this norweigian car company was going to be buying it but it looks like they're going to go belly up. the thing about venture capitalists, though, they do a lot of investigating and researching before they put their hard cash behind it. doesn't look like the federal government did that. >> no, a private investor checks out very carefully whether or not he or she is going to make a profit. the government invests on political reasons. the president wanted to enhance the green jobs program. it would save america. it would lead us to prosperity so they invested on political reasons, not for good economic reasons. now the chickens are coming home to roost. we're about to be on the hook for more money. >> you could argue, too, that a venture capitalist would have said ok, as much as the business might be intriguing, it only makes up 1% of the car market. how can i possibly take my money, put it in and expect to get money out? >> the geniuss in the government thought that the electric car market would just take off and there have been lots of demand for these lithium

icon batteries which they were subsidizing. what it didn't take off, as you say, 1% of the market is electric vehicles. you've got a massive oversupply of lithium icon batterion batte some of those 48 companies that we the taxpayer put money into in the name of the green jobs program they're not going to succeed. >> you'll succeed and you'll be on the fox business network exactly three hours and 1 minute from right now. check him out at 9:20 eastern weekdays. >> for the record, i drove the volt. volt was pretty cool. i liked the volt. >> you liked, it didn't you? we're converting you. >> i don't want to pay $40,000 on it. >> but you never bought gas, did you? for a week. >> no, i plugged it in at night. i liked it. >> have you seen your light bill yet? >> that's true. we're on a family dimmer. up next, they fight for freedom. now marines fighting for their education. why congress is taking away tuition assistance.

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>> time for quick headlines on this thursday morning. they have killed at least 115 insurgents over the last week, most of them in eastern afghanistan. nato looking into weed out the enemy along the board we are pakistan. and washington, d.c. is now wealthiest city in the u.s. of a. federal workers there make an average of $126,000 a year and the city has a large number of high paid lawyers and lobbyists as if you hadn't heard. gretch? >> thank you, steve. they put their lives on the line

for our country every day. but now in an effort to cut costs, the marine corps deciding to slash tuition assistance for off-duty marines. well, the new deal cuts tuition assistance by 75% for marines. joining me now, a former marine and assistant director of the american legion, robert madden. good morning to you, sir. >> good morning. >> you look fantastic this morning. i like the tie. >> thank you. >> let me start with the startling reality that veterans who are done with their service, am i correct in saying when they're done with their service that then when they want to go back to school to become more educated, that's going to be cut by 75%? >> no, gretchen, what this actually addresses is tuition assistance, a benefit provided to active duty service members while they're in the military to get an education and possibly get a head start on their relocation so it's an active duty benefit. >> but at the same time, it still matters because obviously when i'm looking at the unemployment numbers, i'm seeing that veterans have a 12%

unemployment rate compared to the national average of 9%. why is it so important to get this tuition? >> you know, it's one thing -- this issue doesn't need to be seen. it needs to be seen as a national security investment just as much as building a battleship. this is not a fringe benefit and it's not a fringe benefit and it needs to be looked as a serious investment into lives of service members and their families when an individual gets the opportunity to get a head start on their education, it only benefits them and creates an opportunity for them to become a success once they exit the military and then get the opportunity to continue their education. >> right before you started speaking we had a graphic on our screen that showed how much money you used to be able to get for tuition help. $3500 a year. now the new plan will be $875. how do you think that that is going to impact -- and let's keep in mind also that there are talks about cutting the

retirement benefits and such for members of our military as well. >> as an organization, american legion is adamantly opposed to any increase in benefits to the department of defense budget. service members in no way are making it rich to protect the freedoms we enjoy so much. what we decrease these benefits, what we're doing is putting the burden on to the service member as opposed to the department of defense. >> i want to read a statement from the pentagon. here's what it says -- we're committed to keep the corps program intact while making it more affordable to the services. what's that mean? >> that means that they're going to transform the costs and the services on to the service members and their families as i mentioned before who are not making it rich protecting the country. >> so is this a congressional decision or is this members of the military making this decision because they realize they're not going to get the funding potentially from congress? >> right now, this is a strictly marine corps decision and it's based on the service branches option. they can change it, increase or decrease it as they want according to the rigs.

>> well, i appreciate you bringing this to the forefront to our viewers. here we have people who are giving of their time and their lives potentially to protect our nation every day. >> yes. it's important to understand that as an organization, the placing the burden on the backs of the service members who protect this great country and fight in two wars, this is not the way to make the cuts. there have got to be other ways in the federal budget to make these reductions. >> right. robert madden, thanks so much for getting up this morning and looking so good as well and j n joining us with your thoughts. two senators want to help the housing crisis. their plan, offer an illegal visa if they buy a house. does that plan sound good to you? tim tebow starting his 2011 football season this weekend. critics think he won't be able to cut it. we're talking to nfl sunday host

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>> welcome back, everyone. time for your shot of the morning. check out your screen. she's not the average doll. she comes with dyed pink hair and a full arm of tattoos. i hope they're removable and she's wearing leopard leggings and black t-shirt with a skull and cross bones. >> what is happening? >> what does she have on the leash? i'm scared to ask. >> the doll causing problems among some parents. it's said that it's meant for collectors only. wait a minute, if you're an adult collector of barbies. >> and there are a lot of them. >> there are? >> ok, e-mail me or tweet me if you're an adult collector of barbies and do you believe it's only going to try to be marketed

to adults. >> and the picture you'll send will be back lit to hide their identity. if they decide to market bloods and crips dolls to see if you have a chance to grow up and be a gang member and aspire to it. >> is there a market for this? we know the housing market is terrible, right? so two u.s. senators, bipartisan, one republican and one democrat, schumer and lee of utah. they've come up with this idea, they're going to introduce it later today. if you buy a $500,000 house, people from other countries, you will get a visa. so buy a house, get a visa. it can be a half a million dollar house or you could buy a $250,000 house and invest another $250,000 in other residential real estate, you get a visa for the united states of america. >> why? because everyone knows the housing market is in a slump. so this is at least two politicians' answer to get the economy going again. everybody believes if you can jump-start the housing market, you can jump-start the rest of the economy. according to them, this is one way to do it. this is an interesting approach. apparently, the number of home sales to two foreigners with

visas has gone up drastically. each have accounted for $8 billion for the year ending in march. >> we're acknowledging there's money outside of the country and we want to find a by to get it back here. you could change the corporate tax rate and money would come flooding back up. this is one of the issues that you'll see them together. they're going to make their announcement. is this a good move? i imagine there's going to be a deep background check before you get to visa. having that being given, is that a good move? do you like that program? >> it's just to own property. if you want to work here, you have to go through the work visa process as it currently stands. so will it work? we'll find out. >> all right, let's take a look at the headlines. >> yep. l.a. prosecutors now wrapping up their case against michael jackson's doctor. the final witness that will be cross-examined later today literally wrote the directions for how to administer propofol. he testified that dr. conrad murray didn't have the proper medical equipment to give the drug to michael jackson.

>> a simple chin lift, just that alone or an oral airway can move the tongue out of the way, all that was required to save his life. >> murray's attorneys were expected to begin their defense on friday. will it still happen? standby. >> a federal panel telling doctors to back off annual cervical cancer screenings for most women, the new guidelines for women over the age of 21 have a pap smear every three years now. that's a big change. researchers say more frequent screening could do more harm than good because it increases the risk of false positive results. >> our nation's capital now, the country's latest safe haven for illegals, the mayor of washington, d.c. signed an executive order telling police not, that's it right there, telling police not to check people's immigration status, even when they're arrested.

can't ask. the order also forbids police from reporting illegals to federal immigration officials. the mayor says he wants all citizens legal or not to be treated equally. meanwhile, gretch? >> former fleetwood mac singer stevie nicks still going strong and sounding great. >> ♪ wouldn't you love to love her ♪ >> the 63-year-old music legend performed for a group of high school students at the grammy museum in los angeles and also revealed what she might have done if the whole singing thing didn't work out. >> well, in fact, my only chance to actually be a teacher and i would have been a teacher had i not make it in the music business. and i would have done just that. i would have, you know, still written songs and i would have sat and i would have showed people how to do it. it's important.

it's just important to share, to share what you have with kids who want to do this. >> and stevie nicks on tour right now. her new album "in your dreams" is number six on billboard's top 200. let's go over to brian who has a special guest. >> absolutely. one of fox's finest. already the most controversial talked about quarterback in the nfl and before this weekend, tim tebow wasn't even starting for the denver broncos. this sunday, that all changes as the former heisman winner takes the reins and leads the broncos against the dolphins in miami. what are we to expect there and throughout the league? very privileged to have with us straight from los angeles, curt menefee. we sent our private "fox & friends" jet. we got on it. >> always good to see you. >> back to new york where you once thrived on channel 5. >> i feel like i'm in your neighborhood mr. massapequa wherever i'm here. this is a great story, he's a guy where the fans actually have forced him into the starting line-up, am i correct?

>> that's pretty much the case. you have to remember he was drafted last year by a regime that's no longer there. they changed head coach, general manager doesn't have the power that they have. the new guy comes in, he has a quarterback, they're chanting whenever kyle orton was in the game saying we want this kid to play. they gave him a shot. he went through the first six games -- six weeks, five games, didn't have success. so now it's time to change quarterbacks and give the fans what they want. >> does this remind you of doug flutey where wherever he went from chicago to new england they wanted him to play. even though the head coach didn't. >> i think that people look at doug flutie as a guy that was too small but could play quarterback in the national footed ball league probably if you surround him with the right people. i think the jury is still out on tim tebow. he's a big guy. he can run the football can he succeed in the national football league? that's the question everybody is asking including players on that team and coaches on other teams. because a lot of people look at him and they go here's a guy,

nice guy, he got the haircut when he was in last year, he is angelic and very religious. people that play with him and have been around him love him. say he's a fantastic kid. just can he play football? >> if you watch fox nfl sunday, you see nonstop breaking news. breaking news over the weekend was the handshake, handshake between harbaugh and schwartz. two that have become contenders, lions against the 49ers. tell us how you saw it. >> you know, it was the handshake heard around the nfl. kind of what it's being called and i think that it's a case if you get two franchises that have both been down for so long, for a decade for both of them. now they're suddenly each 5-1 feeling good about themselves, and now they get the national spotlight. it was a tough, close game. went down to the final minute. i think that's a recipe for disaster really. and if you look at it and we talked about it on our set. these two coaches, jim harbaugh who is in his first year, jim schwartz who has been in detroit for a couple of years, if you

had to pick the top three guys to get involved in an altercation, these two would both be on it. that's their personalities but i don't think they're bad people. heat of the moment kind of thing. >> what are you thinking about when you're watching the multiple screens and you say -- >> i saw it coming when harbaugh was jumping up and down as he crossed the field. knowing schwartz, you feel this could be something and then he slapped him in the back. it was too much. it was too hard. that's the whole thing with his handshake, is it really necessary? >> do you mind if i toss to a soundbite like you usually do? let's hear from both coaches. >> i've shaken hands, i don't know, 40, 50 times over the last 2 1/2 years or so. never had anything come up. >> you know, it was an unfortunate incident that took place after the game and i take accountability and responsibility for my part in that. >> there's competitive people in the league and i think we need to do a better job of just leaving it to the players on the

field. >> it detracts, takes away from what our football players did. what their football players did and the game itself. >> and the next time they play, whenever they play, that will be a huge game. >> i do agree with harbaugh said there at the end. the sad part is this has taken away from two of the great stories in the nfl, the resurgence of the 49ers and the lions right now because all the people are talking about is the coaches. >> how significant is this? the nfl supposedly is very close, the deal is done but the union is holding out to having hgh testing, that means giving of blood to see how many of these players are on human growth hormone. how big of a deal is this? >> it could be a potentially big deal. the problem is is that remember when they had the lockout and they got a new collective bargaining agreement. one of the areas that was never reached was a deal on testing for hgh because the players contend that there is no standardized testing that is full proof. the legal is saying we're close enough, let's go with what we

got. if your career is on the line or a union that represents those guys, you're not going to go with let's go what's on the line. if you're going to be convicted you want to make sure they have the proper evidence and that's what the players union is still fighting right now. >> between strahan, jimmie johnson, howie long, terry bradshaw, who bugs you the most? >> is this segment over yet? >> to be continued. i'll tweet what he really tells me behind the scenes. good job. >> sounds good. >> thank you very much. that means they all do. up next, a day of animal chaos in ohio now over. 49 animals are dead and the city is still recovering. animal expert jack hanna was on the scene and joins us to discuss the fallout. should an atheist be able to lead a christian group? vanderbilt university says yes. now, congress is stepping in to stop it. [ female announcer ] so you think your kids are getting enough vegetables?

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>> welcome back. we got some quick headlines for you. apple's new iphone 4s has a new carrier. and it's a company most americans have never heard of. a small company called cspire joins the ranks of at&t, sprint and verizon. ok. just in time for the holidays, five major airlines following delta's lead jacking up the ticket prices. they're american, u.s. air, jet blue, southwest and airtran. fares will rise between $4 and $10. gretch, brian? >> the hunt for the wild animals that escaped a private farm late tuesday night finally over and in all, police in zanesville, ohio were forced to shoot and kill 49 rare animals that were released by a farm owner who had set the animals tree and then committed suicide. >> how bizarre is this story? joining us with more is jack hanna. he lived it and called in to

handle it. he's the director emiritus of the columbus zoo where many of the animals were taken. many people are saying why did they have to kill 18 lions, two grizzly bears, three mountain lions, two wolves and one baboon. why did they have to kill them all? >> they all had to be killed because of the darkness coming down the first night they were out. you have to remember something, the fact that all of a sudden, darkness is coming in one hour, we have four tranquilizer guns. we have 40 something animals coming out of an enclosure, an area of 50 acres getting ready to go out in the neighborhoods less 1/2 mile away. what choice do the sheriffs have? as you well know from knowing animals and coming on your show, yesterday morning could have been a story beyond comprehension. this is probably the largest escape of animals in this country's history at one time without one human being being harmed or losing their life. i've been talking about this all night, people the whole world are calling in, why did this

have to happen? you cannot use a tranquilizer gun when the animal goes asleep. you pop the animal, you make sure that the plunger goes off, it hits the muscle, it hits the bone and it might bounce back out. many, many things you don't know. veterinarian may shoot the animal night before last and animal takes off which he's going to do or charges. goes in the bush, goes to sleep. therefore, mr. veterinarian or mr. sheriff, could you go over there, let's see if the animal asleep. do you know what could happen in less than 1/10th of a split second? those people aren't there anymore. 1979, dr. bill montgomery, six tigers got loose, one survived, 30 feet away with all the media watching, 30 feet back, he pops the tiger. tiger takes one leap on a dear friend of mine who had two children, one leap, on top of him, guts him, swat team shoots him up. bill montgomery is dead. you see these kinds of things and you work with these animals and you understand what happens. why we had to do it. you know, that picture of those animals will be with me the rest of my life. >> i know. >> there's no other choice. >> and you drove all night to

get there from pennsylvania to try to help out the situation. i want to talk to you about what can be done now in the future because it's my understanding that i -- ohio is one of the few states where you can still have these sort of wild animal options. what are you going to do about it? >> well, i was with the governor, met with the governor with 12 people yesterday, he met all morning. we had a conference call last night. as we see right now, they're meeting right now. we had the law there currently there, but what everybody forgot is who is going to enforce the law, who is going to walk up to these people's homes and have these animals and legally say we can take your animals. that's being processed right now. animal auctions are in ohio, one of the few states that have them. those, according to the governor will be shut down immediately. those of you who think you have auctions in ohio, i'd go to another state. as far as people that have animals like the man did last night, expect a knock on your door in the next six to seven months. it won't be a pleasant knock. it's hard to say when i think about this, it takes something

like this to make something happened. it was happening already but who knew it would happen this fast? >> jack hanna, you -- >> this is anything but a fun segment. thanks so much. >> it's a nightmare. be with me the rest of my life. yep. >> we're sorry about the whole situation, jack. but thank you for joining us today. >> thank you all. >> all right. still ahead on this show, we change gears. the vice president and the president unleashing a campaign of insults on republicans and the american people. are they really insulting the independent voter? >> and religious freedom, a little too free? one college wants atheists to lead christian groups and now congress stepping in to stop it. e are choosing advil. i'm keith baraka and i'm a firefighter. and it's very physically demanding. if i'm sore i'm not at my best. advil is my go-to. it's my number one pain reliever. [ male announcer ] make the switch. take action. take advil. [ male announcer ] make the switch. the best approach to food is tkeep it whole for better nutrition. that's what they do with great grains cereal.

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>> welcome back to "fox & friends."

religious freedom under attack at beautiful vanderbilt university. the school there has enacted a policy that prohibits religious organizations from requiring that their leaders have the same beliefs of the organization that they lead. that means a catholic group could be forced to let an atheist lead the group. congressman randy forbes is the chairman of the congressional prayer caucus sent a letter to vanderbilt university asking them to abandon their policy and he joins us live from virginia beach, virginia this morning. good morning to you, congressman. >> good morning, steve, how are you? >> i'm doing fine although i'm sure a lot of our viewers looking in right now are going to be disturbed by the idea that this university is trying to crack down on the groups like that. >> well, it goes further than that, steve. actually, what they've done, these groups have gone a long way. the groups opened their membership to anybody regardless of their belief and even opened their leadership to anybody regardless of what they believe. but there are two things that distinguish the christian

groups, their belief in prayer and their belief in the bible so they asked their leaders to lead the bible studies and to lead the prayer part of their meetings and vanderbilt has said they can't do that. and so effectively what they're doing is shutting down these christian organizations from being a part of the campus life at vanderbilt. >> so the way vanderbilt would like it, they would like to have the opportunity to have anybody lead a group, for instance, if it's a christian group, according to vanderbilt, you should be able to have an atheist who leads that group. >> well, i -- >> it goes -- >> that wouldn't be a very good lead for a christian group, would it? >> well, two things. first of all, it goes further than that. these groups have said anybody can be the leader. they want them to lead and be the ones leading the bible study and the prayer groups. vanderbilt has said no. it's important to note, there's no atheist running around vanderbilt now that says i want to be the legal of the christian legal society so i can take this group to new heights. what they want to do is shut down those groups and it doesn't

matter whether they get the leadership internally or whether they get vaneder bits to shut it down externally, they still effecttively shut these groups down. >> what are the odds of a christian group electing an atheist to be their leader? >> well, it would be very, very small and like you said, steve, they are discriminating. it's only christian groups they're applying this to. no one would go into the young democrats and say you have to have a republican lead that group or to the young republicans and say you have to have a democrat lead that group. and a lot of universities and colleges that had very, very reasonable policies that do not have this kind of discrimination and we're just asking vanderbilt to step back, take a look at this and don't discriminate against the christian groups on campus and shut them down. >> i know you wrote the letter a while back. still haven't heard from vanderbilt. as soon as you do, let us know. we'll pass the word along. thank you, congressman. >> thank you, steve. >> what do you think about that? e-mail us, friends at foxnews.com. if you enjoy a daily dose of wine, you need to hear this story. wait until you see what just two

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delicious campbell's soups fill you with vegetable nutrition, farm-grown ingredients, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's -- it's amazing what soup can do. >> good morning, everyone. it's thursday, october 20th. i'm gretchen carlson. thanks for sharing your time today. it is an absolutely horrific sight, the bodies of wild animals stacked on top of each other in the mud. but could this carnage have been necessary to save human life? we'll have a live report from the scene. >> all right, the vice president, you're talking about joe biden getting a little testy when confronted about his recent comments. >> don't screw around with me. let's get it -- >> do you think you should use a rape reference. >> listen to me. >> i'm listening. >> i said rape was up three times. there are the numbers, go look at the numbers. murder is up. rape is up and burglaries are up. that's exactly what i said.

>> is the vice president really blaming republicans for more crime if the jobs bill isn't pass ed? >> plus fema gave an elderly couple money to rebuild their homes after these floodwaters destroyed it in 2008, remember that? now, fema wants the cash back. will that couple be left high and dry? we'll tell you their story straight ahead. "fox & friends" hour two for a thursday starts right now. >> hi, i'm florence henderson and you're watching "fox & friends" with those two sexy guys, steve and brian! and of course, the beautiful gretchen. >> thank you very much. florence henderson. >> whose got a big book out. >> right here in new york. >> to set the record straight, she never dated greg. never dated greg. >> never dated greg. >> that she would admit to. >> let's do some headlines for you if you're waking up because this bizarre story out of ohio, all those wild animals that escaped from a farm now accounted for. police forced to shoot 49

animals including lions, tigers and bears. a monkey carrying a potentially deadly virus was not found but one of the big cats apparently ate it. six animals were captured and taken to the columbus zoo. wildlife expert jack hanna says the others had to be put down. >> all of a sudden, darkness is coming in one hour. we have four tranquilizer guns and we have 40 something animals coming out of an enclosure, an area of 50 acres getting ready to go to the neighborhoods less than 1/2 mile away. what choice did they have? as you well know, yesterday morning could have been a story beyond comprehension. this is probably the largest escape of animals in which country's history at one time. >> police say the owner of the farm released the animals and then committed suicide. he was recently released from prison after doing time on federal weapons charges. live update from the zoo coming up after a quick rest of the headlines. anyway, we're also going to play some more 911 tape.

new video out of kansas city, missouri, police working well into the night looking into the home of missing baby lisa irwin. csi agents using everything from shovels to bomb detection gear. they even ordered temporary no-fly zone over the homes so the search would not be disturbed. earlier in day, investigators left the home with two brown paper bags. lisa's parents are not allowed back into their home until police say they are allowed to. secretary of state hillary clinton announcing just one hour ago that she's headed to pakistan now. heading to islamabad today where she'll lead a delegation of officials in talks with officials. talks have been strained as of late over counterterrorism issues. secretary clinton saying we intend to push pakistan very hard. we all know that wine ages well, but it looks like women who drink wine age, too? take a look at this side by side picture. on the right is a 42-year-old woman and on the left is an

artist rendering of what that same woman will look like in 10 years if she continues to drink two glasses of wine a day. no, actually, that's just aging. the renderring was done by a forensic expert and says people who smoke, drink and eat too much sugar can look forward to bloating and major wrinkles. how much do you decide how much that is due to drinking the wine as opposed to smoking, eating sugar or simple aging. >> tomorrow, juliet and gallo will refute those claims. we'll find out. >> let's talk about the president and vice president have been all over the country pushing their $35 billion jobs bill and if you've been watching, the vice president in particular sounds like have been using some scare tactics. either pass the bill or rape is going to go up across the country. who knows? and the president of the united states himself has been insulting republicans. you've got to wonder whether the use of the insults and the scare

tactics is turning off the independent voters who wind up putting people into the white house. are they? here are the president and vice president. >> maybe they just couldn't understand the whole thing all at once. so we're going to break it up into bite sized pieces. so they can take a thoughtful approach to this legislation. >> this is an emergency. 300,000 teachers have been laid off. >> in many cities, the result has been and it's not unique, murder rates are up. robberies are up. rapes are up. ladies and gentlemen, response times have gone from five minutes to over an hour in some of your cities. >> and then you got their plan which is let's have dirtier air, dirtier water. they want to gut regulations. they want to let wall street do whatever it wants. they want to drill more. >> i mean, you know the

counterargument to that because this is not the picture dictionary section of life. you know the republicans aren't going on the dirty water, running on the dirty air platform. you just know that regulation seems to be stifling the economy and you also know that it's not a matter of people not wanting to hire cops and retain teachers. it's wondering if we're running in a deficit, is it worth putting $35 billion into the black hole after you did that three years ago? but in the big picture, independents look at that and hear the counterargument, do they understand that's necessarily isn't the fact? >> i don't know. >> that's the question. >> i don't know. it's a strategy that this administration has come up with and maybe they have some internal polling that shows them this works to vilify other republicans and maybe it works with independents when they just share those quick little pieces of sound that they think oh, republicans do want to make water dirtier. i don't know. they must have some research or this is the only campaign strategy left with 9.1% unemployment. in the meantime, let's hear joe biden now because he has been on the campaign trail for the last couple of weeks really talking

up what will happen to people in society with regard to rapes and murders if the republicans do not pass obama's jobs bill. >> you're using a rape reference to describe republican opposition to the president's bill? >> no, no, what i said -- let's get it straight, guys, don't screw around with me. let's get it straight. >> you didn't use a rape reference? >> listen to me. >> i'm listening. >> i said rape was up three times, they're the numbers. go look at the numbers. murder is up. rape is up and burglary is up. that's exactly what i said. >> and if the republicans don't pass this bill, then rape will continue to rise. >> murder will continue to rise, rape will continue to rise. all crimes will continue to rise. >> do you think it's appropriate for the vice president to use language in such a way? >> we got to go. we have to leave! >> he's got to go. he doesn't want to answer it. that was jason materra from human events asking him that question. this isn't new. last week he was in flint, michigan, the vice president was and he said, you know, when flint had more cops on the beat,

there were fewer crimes including rapes and murders, he was talking about that last week. he said "god only knows what the numbers will be this year for flint if we don't rectify it which means pass the jobs bill or crime wave. >> it's not even accurate. i want to get this out. because it's really important how much -- how important your words are especially when they could be inaccurate. so when you look at detroit as far as homicides in 2007, there were 316 according to the detroit police department. in 2010, there were 233 so there were actually less murders and you had approximately 100 fewer police officers on the street in 2010. let's look at philadelphia because that's another city where he has been. in 2007, there were 321 murders. in 2010, there were 258. so i think, you know, it takes some looking into it but you have to make sure that the vice president is actually giving the right information. >> and the question i asked on twitter and on the radio was do

you think the president knows the vice president is saying this or is he just ad-libbing and most people think they're on the same page. >> meanwhile, let's tell you, last week, we told you about this guy who got some money when hurricane ike destroyed his house for the most part down in texas. and he got a bunch of money because he was approved by fema. well, now we got another story. apparently, a couple in their 70's wound up getting $27,000 from fema. they're a couple from arkansas. their house was devastated by a flood in 2007. they got the money. and then three years later, fema said you know what? we made a mistake. we weren't supposed to give you that money. so they have now turned it over to the irs saying get the money from the 73-year-olds. >> well, and, of course, they don't have the money now to give it back and so they're in dire straits. they have one politician who is on their side, senator mark pryor on the senate floor talked about this case.

>> they did everything absolutely by the book, they followed all of fema's direction. they did it exactly picture perfect, exactly the way you would think all citizens should conduct their business. these people clearly relied on the government, relied on fema to their detriment. fema has done them harm. our government has done them harm. >> american citizens should not be treated this way. especially those who are playing by the rules and really don't have any other recourse. that's why, madam president, i'm putting a hold on all the treasury nominees, we need to get this resolved. >> put a hold on all treasury nominees until they leave that couple alone. >> isn't this a bigger issue that fema made a mistake? this is what people are so fed up in our country, at least one of the little reasons they're fed up is waste and no accountability. so isn't the responsibility really on the government organization to not make the mistake in the first place? >> fema just gave a statement. they roughly say this. they say they're working on it. and suggest anyone who feels they have received one of these letters in error, to contact

fema. so see how that goes. all right, is 11 minutes after the hour. >> this bizarre story coming out of ohio yesterday. the hunt for the wild and dangerous animals finally over. all of the animals released on tuesday from a private farm now accounted for. >> mike mccarthy of our fox affiliate live from the columbus zoo with the latest. hey, mike. got some new people in the zoo this morning? >> six animals here at the columbus zoo this morning who are in the care of the veterinarians here. they are three leopards, two monkeys and a grizzly bear. we're told they are doing very well. we just got an update from the zoo telling us veterinarians have been checking on these animals around the clock since they were brought here to the zoo yesterday afternoon. let me take you back over to muskegon county yesterday. this was a frightening and intense day yesterday as deputy innimave that were released from this farm owned by terry thompson. investigators believe thompson opened those animals' cages and took his own life. the sheriff says public safety

was his top priority which is why his deputies shot and killed 49 of those animals. attempts were made to tranquilize several of them but were not successful in their efforts there. last night, the one monkey that's not been found is believed to have been killed by one of the big cats. it was a frightening ordeal for neighbors who saw these wild animals running free. >> yeah, i think i just seen one. looked like a jaguar or a wolf or something. >> 911, what is your emergency? >> yes, there's a lion on mount perry road. i just drove by and i walked up and they were standing there underneath the streetlight. >> authorities do not know why thompson released the animals. no suicide note was found. that question may go unanswered. he was released a few weeks ago after serving time at a federal prison on federal weapons charges. the animals here at the columbus zoo will be kept in quarantine. where they will go from here is yet to be decided. we'll send it back to you.

>> thank you very much. >> a dozen minutes after the top of the hour. straight ahead, they've been given the task of cutting trillions of dollars from our deficit. is the super committee even close? and what if they can't? come to an agreement? senator pat toomey is on the secretive super committee and he's going to join us next to tell us what he can tell us. >> plus she sure can wear it. but she can't use it. meet the bikini model who doesn't know how to swim. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower olesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole gin oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios.

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cuts or else? will we get the job done. pat toomey is a member of that super committee and joins me now from that d.c. bureau. good morning. >> good morning. thanks for having me. >> we advertise that as a super committee that's secretive. rumors on the street there's apparently been a lot of gridlock going on in these meetings. you only have a month left to go. is that true? >> it's true we only have about a month left to go. i wouldn't characterize it as gridlock. we're working hard. we're meeting virtually every day. sometimes more than once a day. and i think just about everybody around the table really wants to accomplish this goal or even more, but it's not easy. it was never going to be easy. the ideological and philosophical issues that separate people generally are present and accounted for around this table. it's tough. we're work hard. >> something else they disagree on is the president's jobs bill. i want you to listen to senator harry reid talk about the public

and private sector. >> massive layoffs we've had in america today have, of course, are rooted in the last administration and it's very clear that private sector jobs are doing just fine. it's the public sector jobs where we've lost huge numbers. and that's what this legislation is all about. >> how do you respond to that? by last account, i look at my research and public sector jobs are actually up 7% in the last few years. >> gretchen, it's hard to know where to begin. senator reid has it so absolutely backwards and so wrong to think that private sector jobs are just fine when unemployment is 9.1%, when we've lost 1 1/2 million jobs since president obama was sworn in. no, the problem is that we don't have enough job growth in the private sector because of the misguided policies coming out of washington including these phony jobs bill. this isn't a jobs bill. this is a campaign speech. you know, if the president were serious about a bill that would

-- or a series of bills that would help grow jobs in the private sector, he'd come and invite us to the white house and we'd negotiate something that would actually work. when he finally sent us the trade agreements 2 1/2 years late, we passed them immediately. but this is about just bailing out state governments, expanding government work force is not sustainable. this makes no sense. >> right. some people argue it's a band-aid and more stimulus. let me ask you about foreign aid because this came up at the republican debate the other night and one thing that i know gets you a little hot under the collar is the idea that the united states has given millions to china. why? >> it's completely indefensible. how could you possibly defend the united states government sending money to china which then lends us money because we're running massive deficits? it's ridiculous. we certainly shouldn't be sending money to china. >> let me talk about the occupy pittsburgh protest because apparently, they're protesting outside of your door and i find that a little ironic because one of the things they're against is bailing out the banks which you

were also against. >> absolutely. you know, i totally object to any form of crony capitalism. the federal government should not be bailing out private businesses whether they're banks or nonbanks. there are a lot of senators who actually did vote in favor of the bailouts and i hope they get the same amount of attention. >> all right. very well said. and if you ever want to reveal any of those little secrets from the super committee, you can call at "fox & friends." >> i will keep that in mind, gretchen. thank you very much. >> thanks, senator. good to see you. coming up on the show, could this horrific scene of animals stacked on top of each other after being shot down have been prevented? our next guest, a cop that has faced rhinos said yes, it's the laws that have gone wild. and washington may not be very good managing your money but they seem to be doing great with theirs. wait until you hear the stunning numbers on federal salaries. right back. i wouldn't do that. pay the check?

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>> 24 minutes after the top of the hour. first $126,000, that's the average salary of a federal worker in washington, d.c. that makes our nation's capital the wealthiest metropolitan area in the country. d.c.'s high number of lawyers and lobbyists a key factor. next, $285 million. that's how much citigroup is paying to settle fraud charges. the scc said they misled buyers of a mortgage investment just as the housing market was starting to collapse. finally $500,000, that's how much jessica simpson was reportedly demanding of the tabloids to confirm she's pregnant. "ok" magazine broke the baby

news last night. steve? >> thanks, gretch. it's a horrific scene, the bodies of wild animals lying in the mud after a terrifying day and night in ohio. all together, 49 animals were killed including 18 bengal tigers, 17 lions and six black bears. but was this carnage necessary to spare human life and should there be laws on the books against owning these exotic animals? here with more on this story is the founder of outreach for animals, tim harrison. good morning to you, tim. >> i'd like to say good morning but man, this is the elephant in the living room. this thing has been hanging over us for years and i've been doing this for 38 years, steve and this is the worst thing i've ever seen. my heart goes out to all the police officers, the sheriff, jack, awe the people out there. it was a horrendous scene. >> maybe, tim, it's the fact that we've seen so many wildlife shows on tv. why didn't the officers try to use -- go get the dart gun first

rather than shooting them dead? >> when you show up on the scene, you don't have a dart gun. take it from a police officer, firefighter, paramedic. i teach for the homeland security department. you don't have them in your cruiser. if you shoot something, it will take 20 minutes to take effect. if a tiger is charging, you ain't got 20 minutes. >> this never should have happened. ohio has laws on the books and executive order expired in april and next thing you know you got this. >> absolutely. if that law stayed in effect, i don't want to armchair quarterback and look like i'm a bad guy but i'm telling you right now, if the law stayed in effect, by may 1, 2011, the animal would have been removed from the property because this gentleman wouldn't be grandfathered in. he had citations of animal cruelty. he had a lion get loose and walk around the community. they would have been taken off the property safely like it should have been. >> have you looked into why this happened? i heard a news account this morning that apparently the guy who was not liked by his

neighbors and his neighbors complained a lot about him, what he did was to try to get them back, he let all the animals out and then killed himself. to get the neighbors. >> well, nobody knows for sure what went through his head. i would say that's probably it. he got out of jail, prison, whatever it was for another offense. i'd say it was a payback situation. usually suicides are. take it from a police officer. but people say why do these people have the animals in the first place? a lot of people ask me that. i say see the documentary "the elephant in the living room" explains it all. explains everything. it was almost prophetic what was going to happen. almost predicted this to happen. but i used to be one of those people i used to be a person that raised exotics. i had lions, tigers and bears and i say oh, why now? but i understand why people want them. >> absolutely. and then you have the case of that charla nash, a couple of years ago, her life was destroyed by a chimp. these are not pets. they are wild animals and they should stay in the wild. tim harrison, thank you very much. you're an expert at this and it's great to have you this morning live today from columbus. >> hey, thanks a lot.

you guys take care. >> you as well. >> coming up straight ahead, a heated exchange between rick santorum and mitt romney at the latest debate. >> just don't have credibility, mitt, when it comes to repealing obamacare. your plan was the basis for obamacare. in your book for everybody. >> ouch! but is the bickering a turnoff to some? former pennsylvania senator, guy who wants to be president, rick santorum joins us live next. plus she sure can wear it but she can't use it. meet the swimsuit model who doesn't know how to swim. but she can model. ♪ it was the best day -woohoo! -yes! ♪ it was the best day ♪ it was the best day yeah! ♪ it was the best day

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>> here we go. fox news alert. muammar qaddafi, they are reporting at this hour, they are quoting a military commander that's leading the government that's in charge, the military component that he has been captured in his hometown of sirte. we know this, the telegraph reported that they found an underground bunker they assumed was his. when they took the city. >> now, we can also confirm by newscorp which is our wire service, he has been captured.

a transitional national council, military commander said today. "he has been captured. he's badly wounded but he is still breathing. muhammad lay told afp adding he saw qaddafi himself and he was wearing a khaki uniform and a turban. he was reportedly wunounded in both legs according to reuters who said he was detained by sirte. >> the united states government are commenting on it but not confirming that he has been captured. a u.s. department spokesperson has gone on the record as saying we've heard these media reports but can't confirm them on our own right now. it begs the question, what's going to happen to him? if he lives, what's going to happen to muammar qaddafi? >> you know, he's been indicted by as a war criminal by the hague so i mean, they could export him out and he could be tried there. but i imagine the people of libya who have been under his rule for decades, might want a chance to try him themselves and we know that transitional council is now in full control of the capital. >> weren't there deals on the

table to him to acquiesce his power before during this whole struggle in the last couple of months where he could have gone to other nations without potentially facing -- so now you got to wonder about the smarts of this guy, was he so power hungry that he didn't want to leave his own nation and potentially be a free man in another country, now he's captured. so what happens to him now? >> exactly right. it took months to do it but according to newscorp and also reuters, qaddafi captured but hurt. >> right. hillary clinton was just there 24 hours ago, i'm wondering if she got word of it. when sirte put up a fight, you knew there was a reason it was so hard to take down this town. the one last vestige of the old regime and you wonder who they were protecting. if reports are correct, that's the guy they were protecting. >> this just in, apparently one of those libyan government fighters says qaddafi was hiding in a hole. who does that sound like? spider hole?

>> yeah, libyan government fighter said he was hiding in a hole shouting "don't shoot, don't shoot! ">> some strong man. >> that's usual how they end up at the bitter end. >> remember those stories that we had heard about he was not going to go down without a fight? well, apparently he was located and somebody apparently aiming a gun at him and he said don't shoot, don't shoot! but apparently, according to one news source, he has been wounded, so maybe somebody did shoot. >> senator rick santorum who is running for president on the republican side and joins us now live. you were going to be our guest anyway, senator but i'd love to get your reaction on the fact that qaddafi may have been captured. >> certainly good news and reminiscent of saddam hussein found in a hole, same thing, hiding. these tyrants are just that, they're tyrants. they're basically cowards. these are not great warriors. these are people who are focused on power and using other people

to protect them and to fight their battles and it's not surprising that they found qaddafi in this situation, having other people take the bullets for him and him wanting to survive. >> oftentimes, you see leaders like this so insulated and so ego driven, they have no idea what the real world is like. saddam hussein was certainly like that and i think we're seeing that now. and i'm wondering about the message, the message given to the assads of the world and the ahmadinejads of the world, what happens if the people rise up and get their revenge? >> it's very, very important that we continue to push in that direction. this president has not done that in the case of syria, not done that in the case of iran, has not supported the dissidents in those countries anywhere near to the degree that he did in libya and again, this is one of the concerns i have about this administration. you know, saying that assad has to go and then doing nothing. this breeds disrespect. i mean, the president of the united states, if he has a

policy in saying that a certain dictator for one reason or another has to go, you have to follow through and do something to affectuate that policy or people don't take you seriously and you end up with what i believe, one of the things that you see is the attack that was planned here in the united states, where there is no -- there is no respect for this administration and any pronouncements it makes, it's a paper tiger and it is breeding a sense around the world that america is not someone that they have to be concerned with with respect to pursuing their power goals. >> of course, now, we're involved in some military action in uganda. let's talk about how we got into the military action over there in tripoli and libya as well. you know, united states went in full force for a little while. and then hey, we're going to lead from the back. >> yeah. well, look, the reason we went in -- again, go back in the history. we weren't going to get involved and then we said that he has to go, that qaddafi has to go. we did nothing until the united

nations and france and some of the nato countries sort of forced us to do something. we obliged that request not because of our -- our plans or because of the president's policies, just to be a "good ally" and then we backed away. this is -- this is the kind of indecisiveness not leading from behind. leading from behind means that, you know, you're out there and you're -- you take, you let other people take credit for the success that you enjoy. it doesn't mean you don't do anything to make this thing happen and that's really what the president has done. is he's announced policies and not followed through with any kind of planning and any kind of action to back up the policy. >> so this morning, you're critical of the president, the other night during the g.o.p. debate some of the candidates on the same team were critical of one another. and one of the labels that came out for you afterwards was a combative conservative. and some people were asking the questions -- does this bickering actually help president obama and hurt the republicans on the

stage? your thoughts. >> my thought is that this is a process by which all the candidates are going to be vetted, you know, the records of governor romney, rick santorum, rick perry, all are fair game and need to be discussed because let me assure you, president obama's not going to ignore that record. we need to find out in the republican primary where the vulnerabilities are as the candidates, who is the best person to go up against this president. how they measure up in a tough debate, whether they can hold their own, whether their record is, in fact, you know, one that is the best to compete and that's what these debates are for so i understand people don't like them -- i don't like the bickering either. i thought the tone was at times hostile but, you know, i would make the comment that, you know, governor romney has been the center of these debates. he's someone who gives rather long answers and has a lot of opportunity to talk and he doesn't like it when other people, you know, try to have their way and have a little say in the debate, too, and i think that's going to change and

hopefully other people will have a little bit more opportunity. >> i understand that obamacare, romneycare, that's ripe and it's going to be both for the general if romney gets there and now. you went out in the wall stre"tt journal" editorial comparing both and that's fair. i wonder when romney brought up the 2007 lawn care group, do you think he should are done that? >> no, i don't. at least the way he explained it, he did what you can do. look, i mow my own lawn. so i mean, it's a little different. you know, and my kids, you know, i've got my own lawn service. i have four boys. so that -- i'm a little different situation than governor romney but i guess he has a weekly lawn service. should you ask? i was a little uncomfortable with governor romney said, you know, i asked because i'm running for office. i would hope you would ask because, you know, it's not legal and whether you're running for office or not but i thought it was a bit of a cheap shot and according to governor romney, he

did ask. he did tell the people he didn't want illegals working in his home and that's pretty much all you can do other than to, you know, maybe hire a service that certifies. i don't know all the details. >> right. you brought up a good point that during the debate a couple of nights ago on that other channel, that there's so many people according to polls who have no idea who you people are so it's just early in the process. >> it really is. when people say oh, you're only a certain percent, that really doesn't matter. national polls mean nothing. go back four years ago and the folks ahead in the national polls, you know, fred thompson and rudy giuliani ended up with zero delegates. what matters is these early primary states and, you know, you hear the word that, you know, maybe there's going to be some agreement now that nevada may move back and we can have an orderly process with iowa and new hampshire. if that's the case, the people of iowa who are actually taking a look at the candidates. i've been there almost 70 counties, you know, over 150 town hall meetings. they're the ones that are measuring up the candidates and when it's you will said and done, the folks who really care

are going to make the decision and show up at the caucuses and we're going to do really well there. we think we're in good shape and not worried about the national polls. right now, i am not running a national race. eye running a race in iowa, south carolina, and new hampshire. >> thanks for stepping in on our breaking news as well. >> my pleasure. >> good to be with you. >> he mows his own lawn but does he scoop his own driveway? >> i'm not sure. in pennsylvania you have a lot of practice. the wall street protesters have been out there for more than a month. you can see them sleeping in the rain and mist. have they been misplacing their anger? we'll talk about that. >> grammy nominated singer is about to make her country music awards debut. natasha beddingfield joins us live next. i take my multi-vitamin

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>> fox news alert for you right now. we just told you about deposed libyan leader muammar qaddafi reportedly captured now. you can see the rebels celebrating in the streets in libya. there they are. qaddafi was reportedly wounded in both legs during the takedown. he was also shouting to the apparent people who were going to get him. don't shoot, don't shoot! it happened in his hometown of sirte, the u.s. state department cannot confirm this just yet. we'll have a live report coming out of libya and also from the white house just moments away. >> the word is he was in an underground bunker when they found him. not quite a spider hole but certainly hiding. not fighting. >> sure. >> well, she's known for her hit song "unwritten". >> ♪ something in the distance ♪ ♪ so close you can almost taste it ♪ ♪ release your inhibitions ♪ feel the rain >> of course "pocket full of sunshine" grammy nominated singer but now singer/songwriter

natasha bedingfield is going a little country making her country music awards debut. she joins us live here. always good to mix it up, right? >> it is. it's such a small world. there's so much music out there and so fun to dabble in a different style. >> the thing about country, a little like irish music, you'll sing about other things than just love. do you feel as though you sing about love because you love to sing about love? >> well, i just sing about life and i think love happens to be one of those subjects that is dear to people's hearts so i love how country music is about real things. >> yes. >> last night when i was looking at the information for your segment that we're doing right now in the background at the restaurant we were at was one of your songs. >> really? >> i said -- i showed my wife and i said how weird is that? how often do you go into a place and it's you on the overhead or something like that and you're going that sounds familiar. wait, it's me. >> i probably had my people arrange that to make it feel mysterious. >> you're good. >> i love it when that happens.

i feel like i'm in a music video when i appear in a shop and suddenly my song is on. >> i'm at wal-mart. >> what i love about you is that you love who you are without being stick thin and perfect and kind of the image, unfortunately that we're promoting to our young girls in society. >> yeah. >> so you decided that you want to be part of this dove campaign that is showcasing the beauty of all women, all shapes and sizes. >> yeah, and i've always loved the way that dove advertises their products because it is about real women and i heard about the self-esteem weekend they're doing this weekend and i wanted to be involved because i do feel like every woman feels like their self-esteem is challenged by the images that we have or the perfect images that we try to live up to. >> what are you going to do this weekend? >> i'm kicking off the weekend. whole point of the weekend is to encourage women across america to spend an hour in the young women of their life. >> make a difference.

>> yeah, go on dove's facebook and it has an amazing tool kit that can help you figure out how to help. >> we are all pro soap. but to have somebody here who is pro particular soap is certainly a thrill. >> i'm pro the body. i just like the body, it takes a lot of work to be comfortable in your own body. so anything that helps. >> your body is going to be right over there singing a song in the next hour of "fox & friends." >> yes. >> excellent. >> it is great to have you, natasha. >> thank you. >> if you'd like more information about the program she's talking about, go to our web site. >> the weekend is october 21st to 23rd. >> events happening everywhere. >> fantastic. >> see you again soon. >> coming up next, the occupyers are mad at the rich on wall street, is their anger misplaced potentially? where should the protesters be? should they be some place else? >> the number one song in america.

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>> occupy wall street has largely been unorganized in expressing its grievances thus far and it's reflected in a new poll by gallup that says the majority of americans don't even know enough about the occupyers' goals to express whether they approve or disapprove but a draft in a memo that surfaced earlier in the week points to the beginning of a list of coherent demands. are the protesters even aiming their pickets at the right place? mark stein is the author of this great book "after america, get ready for armageddon."

you spell this out. mark, the occupyers, how do they fit into the narrative you wrote about? >> i think they exemplify it very well. there's a big chapter in my book, brian, about american education and the return on investment. two of their demands revolve around getting their college debt expunged. americans now have over a trillion dollars in college debt. that's the equivalent of the entire australian economy. we've sunk an entire advanced world economy into one small boutique niche market of debt and these guys, goldman-sachs didn't do to them. they'd be better off protesting at the dean of admissions office. >> listen to some of their other demands. halt foreclosures for unemployed, sick and elderly. forgive all student loans as you mentioned. and what about increasing taxes? have we heard this before on the richest 1% of the country? >> yeah, the richest 1% already pay enough taxes.

what do the richest 1% do when you don't take their money? they hire people, they invest. even if they just go to the local convenience store and buy a crate of beer. they're still putting that money out into the productive economy. as to the property market, that's the government. the government wrecked the american banking system. it wasn't anything to do -- the first national bank of dead skunk junction didn't decide to do that. the government told them it had to do it. >> you know what, president obama has basically said that. you might not like what happened on wall street but for the most part, they stayed within the rules. i got to ask you something, is there a risk if you're a liberal or a democrat, of gluing yourself to this organization? >> absolutely. because i think this organization -- this movement is the most useless revolutionary movement you could ever imagine. they accentuate war with the productive class. the american middle class, brian, is dying before our eyes because government wrecked the

property market, wrecked the banking system and interfered with the education system with this absurd college debt. and the idea that somehow there's some guy on the board of some sinister bank that's to blame for it all is completely preposterous. >> we always love having you on. have a great week. >> and you, brian. >> always good to check in with you. >> ok, great. >> all right. four minutes before the top of the hour. still ahead, more on the developments in libya. did you hear about this? reports are that libyan leader muammar qaddafi has been captured. we have a live report from tripoli at the top of the hour and now we're getting reports that he is dead. and two senators say they have a way to fix the housing market. have foreigners buy our real estate and then give them visas. sound good? michelle malkin might not agree. [ female announcer ] once you taste

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the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. >> gretchen: good morning, everyone. it's thursday, october 20. i'm gretchen carlson. thanks for sharing your time with us. fox news alert, mixed reports coming out of libya right now

about the fate of moammar gadhafi. he was reportedly wounded while he was captured this morning. now some are saying the ousted libyan leader has died. we'll have a live report from tripoli and the white house moments away. >> steve: meanwhile, a horrific sight in ohio. dozens of dead wild animals piled one on top of the other. was the carnage really necessary to protect human lives? >> brian: joe the vice president getting a little nasty. >> when that 911 call comes in that a woman is being raped and a cop shows up in time to prevent the rape. >> brian: can the white house really scare republicans into passing the jobs bill? "fox & friends" starts right now.

>> gretchen: breaking news out of libya. reuters news agency reporting libyan leader, moammar gadhafi, has been shot and killed by rebels in his hometown of sirte. we have live team coverage this hour. we have live team coverage starting with david piper in tripoli. we also have steve centanni at the white house. what can you tell us? >> libyan tv is now reporting that gadhafi has been killed. there was unconfirmed reports earlier today that he had been wounded, possibly in sirte. the misrata military council which controls many of the fighters taking on the gadhafi followers in the city, they say they had captured him and he was wounded. but the latest we have is that he has died from his wounds. of course, that is unconfirmed. this all comes after revolutionary fighters finally managed to take his hometown of sirte a few hours ago. there were reports there was a convoy of at least 100 vehicles

trying to get out of the city and also unconfirmed reports that there was a nato air strike which stopped that convoy. we don't know exactly what happened then, but immediate low afterwards, there was reports that gadhafi had been captured, then word, the latest we have is he's reportedly died. of course, that is unconfirmed. but as you can hear behind me, the people of tripoli are celebrating this. the horns have been blasting out and celebratory gun fire going on. back to you. >> steve: now we turn to steve centanni who is at our white house in washington, d.c. with what we know on this side. good morning to you. >> good morning. no confirmation from the white house yet. but we do have one state department official telling fox news that moammar gadhafi was indeed captured while trying to escape from the stronghold of his supporters in sirte. but the state department itself has put out an official

statement. we have wendell goler traveling with the secretary now and the state department put out a statement saying the state department cannot confirm at this time. media reports of the capture or the killing of moammar gadhafi. the white house says they also are working to confirm it. so we have no official confirmation from many sources. but one state department official saying it was true, that he was captured. we have no confirmation that he was killed. you certainly can't turn your back on or ignore just the plethora of media reports that say he's been captured and now reuters reporting he has been killed. all apparently while trying to escape, according to some reports f a -- from a hole in sirte, the stronghold of his supporters. one report said when they approached him, he was in a hole, ala saddam hussein saying don't shoot, don't shouldn't that he did try to escape, shot in both legs as he tried to escape. now there are the reports he died from those injuries. so we're trying to confirm all that here at the white house. the state department and from

around washington. but as i said, you certainly can't ignore the weight of these reports coming from overseas that indeed he may have been captured and/or killed. back to you. >> steve: allall right. so conflicting reports, gadhafi may be dead. let's bring in michelle malkin. this would be great news for a lot of people around the world who have been looking for this guy for a couple of months. >> certainly would be, especially for freedom lovers and seek increase libya. of course, there is the thought of war and we've had so many of these conflicting reports not just over the last couple of months, but over the last several years. so we'll wait and see. i think just hold our breath and wait for confirmation. >> brian: hopefully libya can finally turn the page and start a democracy. let's talk about what's happening here if we can, michelle, because it's kind of interesting to see the president go out on his three-day bus tour and prior to that -- >> steve: he's not campaigning. >> brian: he's not campaigning.

talking about his jobs bill, but doing it in a way that's challenging and confrontational and dare i say condescending about republicans being against it. we know democrats are against it, too. were you surprised at the tone of joe biden? >> no. they sent him out there to be the most demagoguic of demagogues. they've brought chicken little to a new low. we've seen this for decades now, especially when it comes to entitlement reform and touching the third rail. but the idea that he has now doubled down on this rape language and rape rhetoric, especially coming from a white house that just a year ago was wagging its finger and lecturing everyone to tone it down. it's another case of the new tone being just like the old tone. >> gretchen: that's very interesting. what about the facts? i want you to listen to what joe biden, the vice president, has

been saying about if you do not pass this $35 billion part of the jobs bill this friday, police officers and teachers will not be able to continue work and that means rapes and murders will skyrocket. >> this whole jobs bill and this, this is just temporary. let me tell you, it's not temporary when that 911 call comes in, a woman is being raped, cop shows up not in time to prevent the rape. it's not temporary for that woman. it's not temporary for the guy whose store is being held up with a gun pointed at his head that the cop shows up. that's not temporary to that store owner. give me a break to temporary. >> this is an emergency. 300,000 teachers have been laid off. in many cities, the result has been -- it's not unique --

murder rates are up. robberies are up. rapes are up. ladies and gentlemen, response times have gone from five minutes to over an hour in some of your cities. >> gretchen: when you look at the facts, the detroit police department says in 2007, they had 316 murders. in 2010, 233. they had less murders. same thing for philadelphia. and at the same time, they did, in fact, have less police officers, but the murder rate went down. so what about telling the truth? >> yeah. hush, hush, with those facts, gretchen. we can't have them disturb the hysterical narrative here. no, these people need to calm down. it's not just the facts on their face with regard to the crime rates and rape rates, but the larger picture here, of course, is that there is a bigger deception and fraud that their perpetuating and that is that these massive interventions are doing anything. and in fact, this is another union payoff that is going to do

very little with regard to the layoffs that are happening in the private sector. this is really a drop in the bucket. and they've gotten am plenty of money, the teachers union, the police union, the firefighter unions, over the last several years. $115 billion alone in education money under the stimulus. another $50 billion under the bill passed last summer. and of course, this little quote, unquote, mini bailout which they're proposing $35 billion more when they still haven't fully assessed where all of the money went for the last edu jobs bill. that's what they don't want to talk about. the basic ineffectiveness of these programs to do anything to boost the economy. >> steve: well, and the president is going to boost his chance of passing it. apparently he'll appear on the "tonight show." so stand by for that. how about this story, because the housing market just stinks right now. senators lee and schumer, republican and a democrat, have

come up with an idea. they're going to introduce a bill today to spur foreign investment. if you are an international citizen, a foreigner, if you buy a house for half a million dollars or buy a $250,000 house and invest 250 in other residential real estate, you will wind up with a u.s. visa. not a work visa, but a u.s. visa to own that house. what do you think about that? >> yeah. i'm not down on these kind of plans. this is just the latest example of congress selling out our citizenship to try and remedy problems that it created in the first place. the housing market is in the tank and it has been for a long time now largely because of the artificially created bubble that washington helped manufacture in the first place. so it's very typical that what dc is now going to do is outsource the solution and sell u.s. visas, cash for visas to the wealthiest foreign bidders.

you think we should have any kind of confidence that these people will be able to assess properly the credit worthiness of these people? they haven't even run the investor visa program properly and they want to expand that as well. >> steve: stand by. >> more bad solutions. >> steve: michelle malkin, always good having you on the show. thank you for joining us from colorado. >> you bet. take care. >> brian: the big story we're following is the reported killing of moammar gadhafi. he was found reportedly in a bunker in sirte, his hometown and thought to be where he was located, certainly where the bulk of his forces were in the last major city that needed to be liberated in libya. now we find out first that he was wounded in both legs and that it was serious. now there are reports, gretchen, that -- and i believe reuters is reporting that he is dead. >> gretchen: our own david piper was just reporting that as well at the top of this hour. let's go to k.t. mcfarland, a foreign policy expert. she's on the phone right now.

good morning. >> good morning. >> gretchen: all right. so what do you make of this big news this morning? >> i think it's very important politically not only to president obama and the entire libyan operation, but it's important to the libyans themselves and hopefully allows them to put this behind them and get on with forming a government. but to me, for americans, for my country what's the most important is gadhafi's weapons of mass destruction and we really took our eye off the ball from the very beginning of the libyan event. he has three things that could potentially make their way on the international black market. one is chemical weapons. we know he stock piled a lot of mustard gas around the country. is there anything left of his nuclear program, things a could be used in a dirty bomb? and then finally, is the shoulder fired that can be used by one person to fire on a helicopter or a low flying commercial aircraft? those are the things we want to make sure do not make it onto

the plaque market and poe -- black market and potentially in the hands of the terrorists. >> brian: we can't control it because we didn't have any troops on the ground there. so we left it up to the rebels to round up munitions which in many cases they didn't know where they were located. >> and that wasn't their focus. their focus was on finding gadhafi and defeating his forces. unfortunately, wherever these things were, they were probably, as gadhafi's forcessen melted away, who was guarding the warehouse? who was in charge of them? 'cause these are very valuable for any looters who want to take and put on the black market. that's my concern is the gadhafi thing, great. that's a book end. that's the end of a chapter. but more importantly for us going forward, where are his weapons of mass destruction and can we prevent them from falling into the hands of terrorists? >> steve: we should point out there are conflicting reports, reuters and libyan television both say he's dead, but those reports have not been verified.

what about the whole u.s. strategy here? we went in, we did a bunch of bombing and then suddenly we we want to the back of the pack. we're going to lead from the rear. does that now -- is this proof that that worked? >> the administration i'm sure will say that's proof that the president's plan of leading from behind is the right plan and successful. i have real problems with it because i think we went into libya and didn't have a clearly defined objective. was it to get gadhafi or not? was it to train a rebel army -- >> brian: we said it wasn't to get gadhafi, but we were bombing his compound. >> right. we were helping to get him by accident, i guess. but that's not a very good way to start or fight a war. i think it's great they've gotten him, but we don't know what's next. who are the rebels? we don't know who they are. we do know the head of the rebel military used to be in al-qaeda. now he says he isn't anymore. back up are we sure? there are a lot of unanswered questions and if you're leading from behind, you're not

necessarily in charge of what goes on. >> gretchen: varying foreign policy when it comes to different specific nations because they've asked assad to leave syria but aren't doing anything about it really. so it seems to be confusion with regard to what the foreign policy really is. let me ask you this question, does it matter to you that gadhafi is dead or would it have been better if he had been captured or does it make no difference at all? >> well, there are good things and bad things about it. if he's dead, it's over. if he's still alive and they can put him in some kind of a trial situation and they can -- the libyan people can have what they feel is share vengeance and they can have their day in court, there is advantages to that. either way, they have to own that. either way, it's important that it wasn't us that got him, but the libyan people. we don't want another u.s.-imposed war. >> brian: what's interesting, if you're a brutal dictator, like they litter the whole middle east, you look at hosni mubarak, you see he's on trial and near

death. he gave up without fighting and he ends up on trial and humiliation. so the message is, fight to the end. now gadhafi does exactly that. he ends up dead. what do these dictators take from this action and what do they take from this result? >> well, that's a really important point to make because whether the -- if you're assad of syria, you're murdering your people. but they're not fighting back against you yet and by the way, america hasn't joined this fight. as gretchen pointed out. so if you're assad of syria, you're saying, i'm just going to keep fighting. i have know if i give up, i could end up like mubarak of egypt. i could end up going to the criminal court which is probably where gadhafi was headed if he had been arrested and hadn't been seriously or potentially mortally injured. you're taking away is it's better to stay and fight. if i give up, i could end up in a court like mubarak and potentially executed. if i give up to some

international force, like gadhafi might have had to do, i am tried and potentially executed: >> steve: it sounds like he did what he said he was going to do, if these reports are true and he is dead, then he said essentially, we heard through surrogate, he will not be taken alive. they're going to find him somewhere and they're going to have to shoot him. apparently that's what happened. >> and he did say at the very beginning and throughout when we did hear that he would die on libyan soil. >> gretchen: wasn't he offered deals to go to other countries where he would maybe not have even faced prosecution? >> oh, here is the problem with that, gretchen. any country which is a signatory for the international court, the international criminal court would have been bound to turn him over to the international criminal court. remember the very beginning of the libyan war, the international criminals court indicted him and his top leadership group.

so it's very difficult for them to find a safe haven of a country -- no matter how much gold he had. if he had money stored away, it would be very difficult for him and any country to receive him. >> brian: that's the flip side of having the hague indictment. that shuts off all those venues. edie amean is in saudi arabia and we don't hear much from him. if you look for the indictment, no country can take him. >> sometimes with the best of intention, you have the opposite result. >> steve: t.k. mcfarland joining us. now let's bring in a couple of shows from the hit show, "the five." andrea, let's start with you. what do you think? >> i think it's too soon to tell as far as what this means for libya. particularly for this administration. if you look and you look what happened in egypt, we told him to go. and now we have the muslim brotherhood participating in a lot of the elections that we see. so i think again, we don't know

what these rebels are going to do in libya after they take over. there is a lot of questions. you heard k.t. talk about the weapons at stake. again this administration said we're going to lead from behind. we talked about is that a good strategy before. i don't know at this point. we let -- >> steve: it kind of looks like it worked. >> it kind of looks like it worked, but we don't know if terrorism is going to flock to libya. >> brian: and how many weapons are left. >> will this be a new safe haven? but again, i think the europeans led on this one, so obama can still say i led from behind on this one. this is a fourth world country. we have very little interest here. the europeans get most of their oil from here. so it's really not that big of a concern for our country. but it is. there are big issues that we need to worry about. >> gretchen: the flip side of that, let me bring in juan williams on that. i'm interested in your thoughts on this: is it a good thing -- and we don't know for sure if he's even dead. but let's say we know for sure americans didn't kill him. is that a good thing for america

and the impression -- >> let me tell you, this is vindication of the obama administration's policy in libya, i must say listening to andrea, you would never know that someone who was an enemy of the american people, someone who killed americans in that pan am incident back then, someone who was taking out americans and acting against our interests in the middle east has been eliminated from the scene. and all this talk -- first of all, the president never said anything about leading from behind. what the president said was he didn't want to put additional american troops in the middle east in the middle of a muslim country. we are already fight not guilty iraq, afghanistan, we have tremendous troubles in pakistan and he allowed the multi-national force to be in a position where they could act with tremendous american support. essentially america has been at war in libya and tonight or today, this morning, what we've seen is that that policy has led to the ouster and possibly the death of moammar gadhafi. that's good news for america. i don't care if you're a

republican or democrat. >> brian: right. juan, i think it's important to point out, i think that came from a new york article through one of its staffers says that will be the policy of us loading from behind. and for a while it looked like a disaster. when the capitol fell and the rebels got in and they hunted for gadhafi, it seemed to go better. of course, everyone is thinking about lockerbie and all those families who finally got their justice today. let's look at the president. he got bin laden, al-awlaki, and al-awlaki's son and now gadhafi. ocean got a good narrative. >> he's got a terrific narrative in terms of making the case that democrats aren't weak on national security and that he has pursued a number of president bush's policies in terms of being aggressive. look, the drones, for example, guantanamo bay, these are things that have absolutely antagonized the left in this country, but if you're looking at results, you can't argue with the results. >> gretchen: still the question is, what is his policy in the middle east?

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>> brian: during this week's gop debate, mitt romney said the government needs to stay out of the housing market. >> there is an effort on the part of people in washington to think somehow they know better than markets. the idea the federal government running around and saying, we're going to give you some money for trading in your old car, or we're going to give you a few thousand bucks for buying a new hours or keep banks from foreclosing if you can't make your payments, these kind of actions on the part of government haven't worked. the right course is let markets work. >> brian: markets work, which means a lot of people will be forced out of their homes. is he really right? fox news legal analyst and real

estate expert bob massi. bob, do you agree with mitt romney? >> absolutely not, because if you let the market take its place, brian, this thing is going to go on for years. first of all, let's look at this. it's like michelle said this morning, the government caused the problem when they deregulated ten to 12 years ago. then what happened? who benefited? guess what? the lenders made billions of dollars. now the lenders get in trouble. guess who benefited? the lenders got the tarp money. where does the homeowner fit in? although i hate government intervention, brown, the government is going to have to be the one to step in and make an effective program to fix the problem. >> brian: your heart goes out to anyone who is about to lose their home or trouble making payments. but if we're ever going to get to the bottom of the housing market, don't we have to let it hit bottom? >> we do. >> brian: and we keep propping it up? >> here is the difference. you know the homeowners out there, if they watch shattered dreams, they know i'm supportive of the homeowners. but here is what has to happen, at least one of the things.

the government, brian, has to put some strict guidelines on these lenders and say, look, if you can't fix this loan for this homeowner, within a reasonable period of time, then as much as it breaks my heart to say to our homeowners watching, they're not doing you a favor, lenders, by keeping these homeowners in their home for a year, year and a half. it's false sense of security before they foreclose. they've got to move the marketplace. they got to take the homes back, if that's the way it's going to be, and they got to bring the values down to where it is, get the homes moving again. what does that cause? construction, employment, and it sends it in the right direction. i don't want to see anybody, brian, thrown out of their home. but eventually it's going to happen. the government has got to put pressure on the lenders to fix the problem. >> brian: we don't have much time. but the mortgage business has been destroyed. people have paid a price. the real estate business has been destroyed. people have paid a price. a lot of people have been fired at banks. it's not just the homeowners that's paying the price. they got to live in a great home for a while.

>> absolutely. there is no question, there is more disposable income than ever before in america 'cause people aren't making the payments. that's not good for the american spirit because it's a false sense of really do we own the home? no, we don't because it's under water, the lenders ultimately is going to take it back, but we can't let the marketplace take five to ten years to fix it. it's devastating to the homeowner and the economy. >> brian: bob, fascinating time and not an easy time. thanks for breaking it down. >> brian: we continue with breaking news out of libya. reports are that moammar gadhafi has been killed in his hometown of sirte. a live report from tripoli next. plus, in just minutes, the latest jobless numbers will be in. so are we on the right track of getting people pack to work and is america still hurting? will the numbers be high? eric policy be with instant analysis -- boling with instant analysis when we return. my name is robin.

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>> gretchen: fox news alert. breaking news out of libya this morning. reuters news agency reporting libyan leader moammar gadhafi has been shot and killed by rebels in his hometown of sirte. a senior obama administration official trying to confirm whether gadhafi has actually been killed or only captured and wounded. we have a live update from david piper who is live in tripoli. david, what are you hearing there? i can certainly hear people celebrating. >> yes, massive celebrations here by the people of tripoli.

hundreds of people are down on the street just below me now and also firing off celebratory gun fire. we also have now heard from the powerful leader of the tripoli military council, bill handling, and he has confirmed that gadhafi has died. of course, we can't confirm that at this time, but it does tie in with earlier reports coming out of sirte, the misrata military council which controls many of the fighters in that town say they had captured and wounded him earlier in the day. there was also unconfirmed reports that a convoy of 100 vehicles tried to escape the city as it was about to fall and then unconfirmed that a nato strike stopped that and the fighters then captured gadhafi and it does seem, according to the reports now, he was injured, perhaps in that attack and has since then died. back to you. >> brian: is there a sense -- i

know it's tough to talk to an entire population -- that they wanted him alive? did the people in libya want their day in court with him? >> i think they did want their day in court with him. they have been very straight here since i've been here over six weeks about the rule of law and they did want to see that man in court and see him really brought down and been brought to justice. but i do previous when you can hear the celebrations behind me, they're also happy he has died because he has controlled them, rolled over them for over 41 years. this really does, it is -- it means the end of gadhafi. >> steve: let's dial in eric bowling from "the five." i remember when this all started and the price of oil across the world stock market skyrocketed because of the fear factor. we didn't know what was going to happen. libya is the largest oil reserve

in africa, ninth largest in the world. what does this do for the price of oil? >> i have think very early on the freedom fighters, what they did was very smart. they went and took the oil fields, before they took anything, they took control of the oil fields to make sure oil could continue to flow because libya is very dependent on their oil sales to the world, not necessarily to the u.s., but to the world. oil is like blood in your system. if you're bleeding here, that means there is fewer blood -- less blood over here. so it's the world pool of oil. they need to produce 1 1/2 or 2 million barrels that they can produce to keep their economy going. so they're smart. they did that. i don't think necessarily the price of oil will go down substantially because of this, but it will certainly probably prohibit any sort of conflict in libya from making it jump back up again. it's good news, let's put it this way. it's good news from all economic standpoints. not only will oil flow better, any time you can remove the doubt that overhang of potential problem in the middle east, it's

always good. >> steve: it's good news for the people of libya. look at these pictures where they're celebrating in the streets. they're shooting guns off. >> brian: the current government has recognized them. i wonder if this will push rebels around the middle east to take action and hearten them because they could see this result. >> we did see it go from cairo to libya and has a tendency to spread. >> brian: asia. >> right. it may have started there. but the point is that with so much oil at risk there, any of these sort of uprisings initially, as steve points out, they skyrocket the price of oil and then when things calm down, they go down. remember, it started around $85 a barrel before the conflict. went up to 113 and now it's back to 87 or so right now. >> gretchen: coming up here, peter johnson, jr. will take a look back at the life of gadhafi from terrorist to statesman to war criminal. in the meantime, we have a fox business alert.

another reason for eric to be here. the labor department releasing the latest weekly jobless numbers. 403,000 first time unemployment claims were filed. so it's a slit bit more than expected. and it's kind of like a broken record when we see this number over 400. >> how many times in the last 25 weeks it's probably 23 weeks it's been over 400,000 elevated. then you relate that back to the news of the day. yesterday when harry reid said, you know, tax not the private sector that's having a problem. it's the public sector, meaning government jobs. you point out, government jobs are up 150,000 under obama. the private sector is sucking wind. that number means 403,000 people for the first time walked into unemployment and said i need help. new people walking in. something around 2 million do it on an ongoing basis. >> brian: you brought up harry reid. there was an unbelievable statement he said that the private sector is doing fine. it's the public workers we have to focus on. >> we've been talking about it and i think we let it go. i want to bring this up all day

today. majority lowered of the senate -- leader of the senate. obama is on the bus tour talking about jobs. whatever, taxpayers paying for it. but how delusional. how off the pulse are they to say that the private sector is a okay. it's the public sector we need to worry about. are you kidding me? >> gretchen: you have to, let's face it, politicians have to go along with the story line that feeds into what they're trying to get done, which is pass $35 billion tomorrow with a vote for teachers and police officers and firefighters. many people are walking at that because they say it's more stimulus. >> the story that i'm here for, that washington, d.c. metro area is now the wealthiest metro area in america. overtook silicon valley and you know why? because federal employees, according to bloomberg and they went to the bureau of labor statistics -- employees make $126,000 on average. there are 170,000 of those

federal employees in the dc metro area, which means it's the wealthiest area in america and the median income in the rest of us, 50 grand. so more than double. 150 times more than the average american. >> steve: we take care of our government workers. you're going to be on "the five" later on today with five people in all at 5:00 o'clock eastern. we'll be watching. thank you. >> thanks. >> gretchen: your headlines. all those wild animals that escaped in ohio accounted for. police forced to shoot 49 animals, including lions, tigers and bears. a monkey carrying a potentially deadly virus. but get this. one of the big cats, authorities are saying, apparently ate it. six animals were captured and taken to the columbus zoo. expert jack hannah says the others had to be put down. >> all of a sudden darkness is coming in one hour. we have four tranquilizer guns, 40 something animals coming out of the closure, an area of 50 acres getting ready to go out in the neighborhoods less than half a mile away.

what choice did the sheriff have? as you know from knowing animals and coming on your show, this morning, or yesterday morning could have been a story beyond comprehension. this is probably the largest escape of animals in this country's history. >> gretchen: police say the owner of the farm pictured here, released the animal, then committed suicide. he faced charges for animal abuse and neglect and recently released from prison after doing time on federal weapons charges. a live update from the zoo coming up, including calls that were just released to 911. >> steve: new video out of kansas city, missouri. police working into the night, scouring the home of lisa irwin. csi agencies using shovels to bond detection gear. they ordered a temporary no-fly zone over the house so the search would not be disturbed. earlier in the day, they left the home with two brown paper bags, seen right there. lisa's parents are not allowed back into the house until police say it's okay to go home. >> brian: have you seen the rye

not video? zoo voted to give greece another round of bailout funds. the announcement comes as protests turned violence in athens. it's because of an austerity measure expected to be passed in parliament this morning. no word if the announcement of those funds will have any effect on this morning's vote. >> gretchen: you think this would have come up on the job interview. thanks, swim suit model, kristy admitting she can't swim. the beauty says she's done dozens of tropical shoots for sports illustrated and victoria secret, but she downright is terrified of the water. >> brian: she just has to look like land. >> gretchen: when you look like that, you can get away with it. >> steve: let's look at the weather on this thursday. we got live pictures out of chicago. look right there at the map. you'll see chicago is in the middle of the storm. that's the biggest stuff there. that's lake michigan right there along lake shore drive where the waves are going to be gigantic

later today. high wind warnings have been posted. it is a rough day in the windy city. it's windy in the windy city. all right. that's a quick look at your fox travel cast. >> brian: coming up, grammy nominated singer, natasha beddingfield is here. how do i know that? i can see her. >> gretchen: she's going to perform live for us. good morning again.

>> steve: fox news alert. our top story, reuters and other news services now reporting moammar gadhafi has been shot dead, shot in the head is one report. it's reported his pod is being taken to misrata right now. there are other reports that perhaps he could have been killed in a nato air strike. reports are gadhafi killed. fox news legal analyst peter johnson, jr. joins us live right

now. >> good morning. it's important and welcome news for the entire world and especially the united states. known as the mad dog of the middle east, ronald reagan branded him. he called himself the king of kings and he developed a reputation over his life as a despot, a person who commissioned assassination squads around the world and most famously and most tragically responsible for the 1988 bombing of the pan am flight that killed 270 people in lockerbie. he became a pariah at the end of his life, the way that he was earlier in his life, indicted by the international criminal court over the summer, along with his family for war crimes and crimes against humanity. he also came to a detante with the united states earlier and was involved with our extraordinary rendition program whereby prisoners were actually taken to libya.

so hitler wannabe, a person who killed thousands of people, tried to get a nuclear weapon from china. tried to get a nuclear weapon from pakistan. had ties with virtually every terrorist organization around the world, from africa to the pacific, to the middle east. some reports even in ireland, new zealand, australia. tried to have the aborigines in australia and those in new zealand turn on the governments there. horrible, despicable person. >> steve: no doubt a bad guy. now the reports are that he has been killed effort via rebels -- there is one report he was shot in the head, perhaps it was an air strike. bad guy taken out. there are some who didn't want this president to get into this thing to start with. they're going to be going, i can just forecast it, peter -- they're going to be going, they should have taken him alive. he should get his day in court.

>> educated -- educated that he would not be taken alive. some reports said don't shoot. the issue became over the summer and earlier this year whether, in fact, we should be participating in the nato effort to take that government out. in fact, the united states pulled back from its earlier efforts there in terms of the bombings and allowed the bulk of the working to to other nato air force. of course, there were no troops on the ground that we know of. that was the goal from the start, whether it was stated or not, to kill moammar gadhafi. kill him dead. and end the scourge that he has imposed on the world really for the last 40 years, since he seized power in 1969. >> steve: it sounds like he has come to the end of his road. finally some justice for all those american families who had been waiting for it. >> that dog in the middle east is dead. >> steve: he is indeed.

peter johnson, jr., thank you very much. all right. we are going to completely shift gears in just a moment. coming up, a pocket full of sunshine, a performance from natasha beddingfield. good morning to you. but first, i have a good feeling that i know exactly what bill hemmer's lead story will be. >> good morning to you. you think about this year, 2011, this is the year the dictators went down. this breaking news is a big deal. what is next for that government? no one really knows. what's next for the region? how does that affect u.s. policy in the middle east? we'll talk to parents who had children on board flight 103 in 1988. there is so much to get to. we hope you stay with us when martha and i join you in about ten minutes on "america's newsroom." ed the cereal that can help lower olesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole gin oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios.

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>> gretchen: she's known for her hit songs, song writer, natasha beddingfield is here to sing "weightless" off her latest album and also involved in this dove campaign for girls self-esteem. >> it kicks off this weekend. i'm performing in new york today to kick off the whole weekend that's happening check it out on facebook. >> brian: you've been serenading us during the breaks. it's time for the rest of the world to hear you. >> i'm singing "weightless" it really fits in with the topic of self-esteem. it's about loving who you are and. >> brian: take it away. natasha beddingfield. ♪ oh, yeah la, la, la, la, ♪ ♪ oh, i have to keep reminding myself ♪ ♪ i'm not like anyone else

♪ that my face on my i.d. that makes me the ivy ♪ ♪ no one exactly like this ♪ no one with my fingerprints ♪ no one can touch you like me ♪ you've got to be like this ♪ they say a guy won't get nowhere if it's not filthy rich ♪ ♪ you selfish little girl, you don't know who you are ♪ ♪ surround yourself with friends who think you're a superstar ♪ ♪ oh, yeah ♪ oh, yeah ♪ oh, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ ready, set, ready let's go ♪ the sky is the limit and i just want to float ♪ ♪ the spirit on a journey ♪ let me go ♪ i'm weightless ♪ i'm weightless

♪ the weight of the world tries to hold us down ♪ ♪ let me go ♪ i'm weightless ♪ i'm weightless ♪ yeah, yeah yeah ♪ all the things i hold in my fist ♪ ♪ if i don't let go i won't release it ♪ ♪ that's not important anymore ♪ i'm light as apheterrer ♪ i'm care free ♪ i'm weightless ♪ the sky is the limit and i just want to float ♪ ♪ free as a spirit on a journey of hope ♪ ♪ cut the strings and let me go ♪ ♪ i'm weightless ♪ i'm weightless ♪ the sky is the limit and i just want to float ♪

♪ free as a spirit on a journey filled with hope ♪ ♪ . ♪ cut the strings and let me go ♪ ♪ oh, i'm weightless ♪ i'm weightless ♪ oh, yeah, yeah, yeah [ applause ] >> brian: wow! that was awesome!

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>> brian: you're are rascal flats. >> i'm getting the severance of what it feels like to be in a band. we've been doing a few interviews together and it's fun because they tease me the whole time. i tease them right back. >> brian: do you want to be in a band? should we try to find you a band? >> yeah. >> steve: like the monkey, a band on television. >> brian: they were fantastic. >> you want to be the drummer? >> brian: i would like to be the drummer. but my problem is, i'm talent less. i make danny partridge look like a great guitarist. >> gretchen: he can be your pr person. >> brian: did you hear who is coming on tomorrow? >> steve: glad you asked. geraldo rivera, are you familiar with him? >> oh, yeah. >> steve: he's going to be on our show. also joe piscopo, governor bobby jindal and michelle rhee. former chancellor of the dc schools. >> gretchen: log on, we will have our after the show show right after the broadcast show here.