>> rick: hello, everybody. welcome to a brand-new hour inside america's news headquarters. >> arthel: topping the news this hour, libya's new leader set to declare their freedom tomorrow. we'll tell you why there is some big questions about exactly how moammar gadhafi died and whether any laws were broken. >> rick: and a wall street protester takes his demands to a new level. we'll tell you why the only thing he got was a free trip to the psych ward. >> arthel: plus, it's almost november and that means holiday sales are just weeks away. "consumer reports" tells us about some of the season's best laptop computers and why you need to be looking now.

>> rick: we begin with new fallout after president obama's decision to end the war in iraq and pull all u.s. troops from the region by the end of the year. the president defending his decision, saying it's time it start focusing on the u.s. economy. but the move is raising red flags with some republicans in washington over security, safety and iraq's ability to keep the peace. molly henneberg is live in washington with more. why does the president believe that now is the right time to bring those u.s. troops home from iraq? >> hi, rick. the president says the strategy to end the war has succeeded. he also says he campaigned on a promise to bring the war in iraq to a, quote, responsible end. and now he's following through on it. >> we've already removed more than 100,000 troops and iraqi forces have taken full responsibility for the security of their own country. thanks to the extraordinary sacrifices of our men and women in uniform, the iraqi people have the chance to forge their own future. now the rest of our troops will

be home for the holidays. >> why now? u.s. and iraqi officials say they could not come to an agreement on legal protection, meaning protection from prosecution or lawsuits for american soldiers stationed in iraq. so u.s. troops will be coming home. rick? >> rick: molly, there are some republicans who are running for president, as you know, who say this was a failure of diplomacy on the part of the president and his administration. what can you tell us about that? >> several gop presidential candidates say the president and his team should have pushed for some type of agreement to keep a contingent of u.s. troops in iraq. mitt romney said, the unavoidable question is whether this decision is the result of a naked political calculation or simply shear ineptitude in negotiations with the iraqi government. michelle bachman also put out a statement saying, quote, in every case where the united states has liberated a people from dictatorial rule, we've kept troops in that country to insure a peaceful transition and

to protect fragile growing democracy. she warns that after a, quote, costly and protracted war in iraq, this decision will strengthen iran's influence. but president obama says bringing home the troops from iraq and eventually afghanistan will allow the u.s. to focus on, quote, rebuilding our own economy. rick? >> rick: molly henneberg live in washington for us. thanks. >> arthel: the u.s. has paid a big price for our presence in iraq. right now there are an estimated 40 to 45,000 troops spread across iraq, costing taxpayers roughly $135 million per day since the war began. 4482 troops died during the iraqi war. and more than 32 now have been injured. >> rick: critics of the president's decision to say that the withdrawal of all suv troops could pose big security challenges for iraq as their armed forces stand on their own

for the first time. even as u.s. troops prepare to pull out, they're still waging combat operations in afghanistan. president obama says he plans to wind down the mission there as well, pulling out our troops within the next three years. >> arthel: and while our troops fight in the war zone of afghanistan, new diplomatic developments today. secretary of state hillary clinton urging that country's neighbors to protect their borders and stop the flow of fighters and drugs from crossing over. mrs. clinton making the comments to leaders of two former soviet republics on a trip. the two countries also control a crucial supply route used for american forces in afghanistan. >> rick: libya now, and the death of libyan leader, moammar gadhafi raising questions over how exactly he died. initial reports suggested that gadhafi was killed in the cross fire of a gun fight and then there were claims he was killed execution style while in the hands of rebels and there was videotape that everybody around the world watched, shocking

stuff. but as libya's new leaders prepare to declare new liberation, there are plenty of people who say they're just happy he's gone. greg has more from misrata. >> hey, rick. happy indeed. they are happy in misrata, happy across the country. for the third night running since the death of moammar gadhafi, people have been celebrating, shooting guns off into the air, squealing their cars up and down the street. this on the eve, rick, of what they call a day of national liberation. tomorrow, sunday, that will declare hostilities completely over here. more or less in libya with the death of moammar gadhafi, most people saying that the majority of fighting will be over and paving the way for a new post-gadhafi libya. the highlight of that, of course, will be democracy, elections coming to this land. it has seen 4 # years of dictatorial rule by gadhafi. here in misrata, they are seeing

a little bit of truth of the death of gadhafi and inn a strange way. we were in on this. we saw, along with folks here in the population of misrata the body of moammar gadhafi and his son laid out in a meat storage locker, a cold storage room, a warehouse on the outskirts of this town. people coming in and not just men, but women, children, and entire families coming in making it kind of a day out to see the two individuals that have been such a big force here. the wounds that they incurred are apparent, but that didn't dampen the enthusiasm of at least two people who we talked to following their viewing. take a listen. >> this is the end of the era like this. he ruled us for 42 years.

now he is laying here like a mad dog. >> i'm so happy to see him. this is the feeling of living people. >> as you noted, rick, there are questions about the exact circumstances of the killing of moammar gadhafi. transitional government here has been saying that he was killed in cross fire rather than actually formally executed. one official, however, off the record told me today that perhaps shots were fired in anger at gadhafi and that killed him. the other point is this display of the body of a dictator who ruled for 42 years, perhaps is not in the best of taste, including some in the formal council, ruling council in tripoli. we're told this is probably going to be the last day of this display and there will be a burial maybe as early as tomorrow. but it will be a secret place, a

private place. the new rulers of this country don't want that place to be turned into any kind of shrine for any gadhafi allies who are still out there. rick? >> rick: greg, thanks. >> arthel: the death of a saudi prince leaving the future of one of america's most oil rich allies up in the air. crown prince sultan died today from an unspecified illness here in new york. sultan was heir to the throne in saudi arabia and his death leaves a big question mark as to who is next in line. reena ninan is in jerusalem now with more. >> he was a man believed to be next in line for the throne in saudi arabia. crown prince sultan died in a new york hospital. he was 85 years old. for decades, he served as saudi arabia's defense minister. according to a western diplomat, the prince may have been brain dead for the past month. widely known he wasn't in good health and suffering from colon

cancer. the king of saudi arabia's only two years older. a lot of focus will be placed on who replaces prince sultan. the likely successor is pleased to be the current interior minister. it's controversial. he initially believed jews were behind the september 11 attacks. he's against reforms, especially for women that the late prince sultan supported. usually the king declares who the successor will be. but many of the prince's of the royal kingdom are against his appointment. so he might leave that decision up to a group of his relatives who make up the allegiance council. secretary of state hillary clinton said the prince will be missed and she offered her condolences. a saudi plane will take the body from jfk to saudi arabia. his funeral will take place in riyadh on tuesday. he is survived by 32 kids and multiple wives. arthel. >> arthel: thanks. >> rick: after years of butting

heads, u.s. relations with north korea showing some signs of a thaw. they're being allowed to find bodies from the korean war. 5500 thought to be buried in north korea. the move comes days before leaders are to hold bilateral talks on nuclear issues. the recovery efforts are due to begin sometime next year. >> arthel: you could say the occupy wall street protests reaching new heights in new york. one of the demonstrators scaling a tall sculpture this morning near the protesters' home base in lower manhattan. there he is. police moved in to try to get him down. even using a crane to go up to talk to him at eye level. eventually the protester agreed to leave his perch. he was reportedly taken to a local hospital for observation. >> rick: let's talk politics and turning to the 2012 presidential

race a forum is underway as we speak in des moines, iowa, featuring a lot of the top gop contenders. among them, congresswoman michelle bachman, herman cain is there as well. both trying to show that they are viable candidates in the race for the gop nomination. peter doocy has more from washington. >> tonight in iowa almost all the republican candidates for president are going to get together for the iowa faith and freedom coalition forum in des moines. but before they do, herman cain who won last night's western republican leadership conference straw poll out in vegas is trying to explain to the state's social conservatives that when he said he was pro choice before he, he really meant he's pro-life and that if he is president, anyone who wants an abortion will have to commit a crime to get one. >> abortion should not be legal. that is clear. but if they make a decision to break the law, that's that family's decision. that's all i'm trying to say. >> on the economic side, governor rick perry says he thinks his flat tax is more attractive than cain's 9-9-9

plan. perry is in iowa campaigning and hunting. seen here with congressman steve king. he's on the tea party caucus and has been a past supporter of congresswoman michelle bachman who is working hard to shoot down rumors that her entire new hampshire staff jumped ship. her spokeswoman tells us, quote, not all her new hampshire staff quit. the director did quit and caroline gillger. we didn't know yesterday because they never talked to us. they just went to the press. it would have been nice for them to talk to us. we have between three and five paid staff in new hampshire. we understand they want to campaign and work more, it's just that we are spending our time and efforts in iowa. we're basically camping out in iowa until the caucuses. bachman, according to a university of iowa poll, has 4% support in iowa behind perry, who has got 6. gingrich, who has 8. paul, who has 12. romney, who is not in iowa this weekend, but has 27%. and cain, who is ten ahead of that with 37%.

rick? >> rick: peter doocy, thanks. >> arthel: i want to tell but a calendar fight over this year's primary. forcing nevada republicans to change the date of their caucus. again. the party decide to go shift caucuses back to february 4. the republican national committee recommended changing the date after a number of presidential candidates threatened to boycott the caucus. >> rick: a congressman proudly proclaiming his bill would be a, quote, job killer for illegal workers. lamar smith is talking about the legal work force act which would require all employers to use the e verify system to make sure that they don't hire illegal aliens. but many farmers are concerned that that's most of their work force and they wouldn't be qualified to work. casey stegall is live from los angeles. what's the drive behind this legislation? >> really a battle shaping up on capitol hill over this controversial topic. the idea is really twofold. supporters of this bill say it

would help curtail what is being characterized as the illegal immigrant problem in this country, while also lowering the nation's soaring unemployment rate of 9.1%. if it's passed, the bill would require all employers in this country to use that special computer system known as e verify to make sure that a potential employee is legally cleared to work in the u.s. some lawmakers say it would also weed out those who are taking jobs away from unemployed americans and also get the ball rolling on immigration reform. >> we clearly do ned a better guest worker system. the current system is dysfunctional. doesn't work. doesn't supply enough guest workers and takes to long to get them to the areas where they're needed. >> it's estimated that 8 million illegal immigrants were employed in america last year. that represents about 5% of the

country's total work force, rick. >> rick: what are the industries? we mentioned farmers at the top. what other industries that really require foreign workers, they rely so much would be affected by this? >> it's primarily agriculture and, in fact, it's affected so much that a lot of people in that particular industry are really steaming mad over the possibility of this. experts argue that most americans simply do not want to be involved in the back breaking work that you got to do on a farm. even pointing to a 2010 employment campaign sponsored by the united farm workers. 10,000 people apparently expressed interest during that hiring blitz, but only nine people actually took jobs in the field. some farmers say if you narrow the hiring pool even more with the passage of this bill, listen to what happens next. >> it would be catastrophic damage to our industry.

farmers could not hire people because they'd go to prison with this new law and the penalties are astronomical. so what the farm will do is shut down. >> this has already passed a congressional committee. next it will move to the republican-controlled house for further consideration. we'll keep you posted. >> rick: thank you. casey stegall in los angeles. >> arthel: coming up, a dramatic rescue at sea. emergency teams racing to save 13 divers trapped underwater. new details coming up. >> rick: plus, iraq and libya reached decisive moments this week. exposed two very different ways of waging war. we'll take a look at what might be the future. >> arthel: and then a trade war now underway between u.s. solar panel companies and china. we'll tell you why china is being accused of decimating american jobs and crippling the economy. the industry. ,@?ñ

i refer to her as "that woman with the great gums." as jill's dentist, i know that her gums are a foundation of a healthy smile. jill knows that, too -- so she uses crest pro-health clinical gum protection toothpaste. it helps eliminate plaque at the gum line, helping prevent gingivitis. it's even clinically proven to help reverse it in just 4 weeks. and it protects these other areas dentists check most. crest pro-health clinical gum protection. because healthy smiles are built on healthy gums. life opens up when you do.

>> rick: we're back. this news just crossed over the last hour or so. new warnings of a possible terrorist attack in kenya. the u.s. embassy in nairobi, which has been hit before, saying an attack is, quote, imminent, and likely targets may include several places that are popular with foreigners such as shopping malls and nightclubs.

they won't confirm who may be behind the alleged plot. this latest threat comes as kenya's troops battle against islamic militants from somalia who carried out an attack in uganda. as we get more, we'll bring it to you. >> arthel: time to check for other stories making headlines. a new security error for iraq. the country facing the reality of having to defend itself without the help of u.s. troops. many fear an increase in violent and growing influence from iran. rescue teams in iran racing to save 13 divers trapped under water after their ship sank two days ago in the persian gulf. officials think the divers are still alive despite low supplies of oxygen. funeral services today in florida for dan weldon, the two-time winner of the indy 500 was remembered as a champion on the racetrack and a devoted husband and father.

>> rick: the timing of major developments in iraq and libya this week has combat experts wondering if wars will ever be fought the same way. in libya, u.s. and nato forces, toppling moammar gadhafi's regime in a few months with no loss of u.s. troops, compared to iraq where we are pulling out by the end of the year now after some ten years and more than 4,000 troops killed. about 4400, in fact. are we looking at a new way of fighting our wars? joining us is fox news military analyst, retired u.s. navy captain chuck nash. it's always good to talk to you. thanks for being with us. >> nice to be with us. >> rick: they got all the bad guys who have been wiped out over the last year or so from bin laden to al-awlaki, of course, this week to gadhafi. and in no case did we have to put a significant number of u.s. troops on the ground in harm's way. is this a new way of fighting the war on terrorism, sir?

>> i think what we're really finding out is that large forces do different things than what you need and what you can do with smaller forces. one of the things, to keep the mind is, it's not like world war ii where you're fighting another standing army that's similarly armed and to the depth that's armed, like the nazis were, the german army was in world war ii of the japanese. what's happening now is it's more cultural. you're into societies that we do not understand. we don't really understand arab and muslim societies. and because of that, i think what's happening is we're tending to stand back more, keep our distance, and likely use the northern alliance in afghanistan to unseat the taliban, in this case, in libya we used the forces on the ground and leveraged in both cases leveraged those things with air power and technology that those indigenous forces did not have.

>> rick: captain nash, that term leading from behind that was used by an anonymous obama administration official in an article in the new yorker that got a lot of criticism from people who didn't like the idea of the united states leading anything from behind, maybe, though, that is the way to go. using the northern alliance, using these rebels on the ground, using the french who played a leading role in libya. the french, sir. maybe this is the right strategy. >> well, you never know. i think we missed a brilliant opportunity with the green revolution in iran to leverage that discontent with that government and that could have been brought down probably without a shot being fired. so there will be these opportunities. there is a lot of disaffection in the arab world between the people and their governments. and i think we're going to be seeing more and more of this so we ought so start thinking about how we are going to leverage that in the best interests of u.s. national interests. >> rick: what about the president's plan now for iraq?

i've heard a lot of criticism from the republican presidential candidates and other prominent republicans, but there are a lot of people in the military, at least those who are able to speak publicly, who say the military is on board for a complete withdrawal. what do you think about that, the plan that the president has put out? >> i would -- well, it is what it is because the iraqis did not renegotiate the status of forces agreement which would allow our forces to operate there without being subject to iraqi tort laws and be held liable for actions. so that's a nonstarter. we're not going to leave people there. the thing is, i would have liked to have seen a more gradual withdrawal, but then again, if you talk to a lot of the folks who are doing missions there, they're not going to be allowed to actually do their job, then why have them parked in iraq? so i think in the end, the time

has come. this is about a nine inning ball game. we're in the sixth inning. we talked to the u.n. we invaded. we occupied. we did it transition piece that required a surge. we went into a stabilization mode and now we're in the exit mode. that's about a sixth inning of a nine inning game. libya, we're in the second inning. we'll see how this all turns out. >> rick: you mentioned iran at the top and i wonder as we discussed, we think about the drones program and obviously the technology has gotten so good that we're able to take these people out without putting anybody on the ground. is there any way with some of the new strategies that have been employed in places like libya, some of the new technology that's available that we might be able to employee any of that in -- employ any of that in regards to iran? >> i don't think so and the reason i don't is because they've got -- iran has a far more significant surface to air

weapons capability, sam capability than libya did and we threw the full might of u.s. electronic attack capability against those integrated air defenses in libya and beat them into the dust in about two days or three days. so going into iran, which is a massively bigger country, far more complex, that would be a lot more difficult and those drones really, the unmanned aerial systems are in the absence of a credible air threat, they're very useful. in a credible air threat, they're just very expensive targets. >> rick: got it. retired u.s. navy captain, chuck nash, always good to talk to you. thanks so much. >> you bet. >> arthel: hi, rick. >> rick: hi, arthel. >> arthel: sounds like i haven't said hello. coming up, the race to the white house looking like a battle of the tax plans. we're going to take a look at

what herman cain and rick perry are offering a. and why some folks are having trouble telling them apart. >> rick: plus, an update on the high school football coach who got beat up after his team won the game. have you heard about this? >> we want to be out there monday at practice and i told him he was crazy because -- like i said, he cared so much and the kids love him, too.

fore! no matter what small business you are in, managing expenses seems to... get in the way. not anymore. ink, the small business card from chase introduces jot an on-the-go expense app made exclusively for ink customers. custom categorize your expenses anywhere. save time and get back to what you love. the latest innovation. only for ink customers. learn more at chase.com/ink ♪

[ gong ] strawberry banana! [ male announcer ] for a smoothie with real fruit plus veggie nutrition new v8 v-fusion smoothie. could've had a v8.

>> arthel: republicans are hoping to hit political pay dirt by talking taxes. herman cain and rick perry unveiling plans that would do away with the current tax code and replace it with a flat tax. the issue may lack excitement, but dominating the headlines now. the flat tax might also be a political gamble. lack ago track record of success in past campaigns. so can this be a winning

platform for the gop nomination? let's bring in our panel now. good to see both of you gentlemen. >> good to be with you. >> arthel: i'm going to start with you. first of all, explain how a flat tax would be applied and whether or not you think it's a good idea. >> well, aside from the tax code that exists now, which we all know is very complicated, they would be set at a certain rate, whether 15%, 18%, not likely not above 20% that both corporations and individuals would be assessed on their income. and that would be the name of the game on the flat tax. there is a problem in immediately what would that percent be and coming to agreement on it. and secondly, does it fall disproportionately on those who

can least afford it? so that's the main predicament and why we've seen it whether ushered in campaigns previously by phil gramm of texas or steve forbes in prior campaigns that it has gone nowhere, nor have their candidacy, especially when that was the main platform they stood on. >> arthel: justin, do you agree with david's explanation and also, justin, is it even possible to devise a simple flat tax? >> i think that's the political appeal of it. the political appeal of a flat tax is it makes the tax code much easier. who hasn't struggled to fill out their tax form? it's incredibly complications, thousands of pages of regulations. but you're right. it is going to be difficult to actually implement the idea in practice and i think that that's -- that's why you see candidates like herman cain and now we understand governor rick perry will come out with a

proposal to flatten the tax structure and i think you're seeing this from campaigns like herman cain, from governor rick perry because it's a little bit of a risk to propose something this bold in a campaign. but when you start out as low in the polls as herman cain did or as low in the polls as rick perry is right now, you need a bold idea like this to get you to the front of the pack. >> arthel: okay. >> if i might add to that, it's very risky. reagan didn't do it when the flat tax idea came into being in 1980. 1996 during that campaign we saw it fall on its back. and it is very risky. we're not going to see it. what we can do now are the tax proposals that are contained in the president's jobs bill that need to be addressed now so it can help middle america now and working american families by extending the payroll tax cut so taxes aren't increased on workers today that, are struggling on their cash flows month to month, that would incentivize small business at the tune of $5,600 to hire

veterans, on and on in terms of getting people back to work. we have tax proposals in proposal now that need to be implemented and legislated so that the president can sign it. not waiting for a debate that's been going on for 30 years and never going to see an end to it that debate. >> arthel: david, it seems to me you're implying that there is some political jockeying around here. justin, how do you see it? why has there not been a tax proposal that has been approved at this point? >> i think we're in the midst of a campaign right now and i think that these ideas are being put forth by candidates and i think that congress would be well served and i believe that president obama would be well served if he were to propose doing something like a flat tax to simplify the tax code. small businesses across the country right now are struggling to create jobs and lessening the burden of the federal government on the job creators in this country would go a long way to

helping grow our economy and get jobs again. that's the number one issue that we know from voters and simplifying the tax code and broadening it and making it simpler and reducing the rate i think would be a great job creator and i hope that president obama might even consider adopting parts of this plan that they're talking about. i think he should do did. >> arthel: david, the question you raised earlier and that is, how do you propose a flat tax structure that will a, produce enough money to fund the government? and also to not cripple the folks in the lower income brackets at the same time? how do you devise a simple flat tax package? >> look, there is both current needs and future needs. there is a need for tax reform. but going to your question, we need to address the problem now and that is to put additional funds in the pockets of the middle class. that is a very simple thing. another thing that the republicans need to address,

what ronald reagan said before: it is absolutely crazy that millionaires are paying less taxes than a bus driver. >> arthel: that is why the folks are on occupy wall street protesting. >> that's exactly right. >> arthel: justin, find word? >> the gop would be better served, dealing with that as the president is seeking to do in congress, as well as putting a tax cut to the middle class and to small business to create jobs. that's what we need to do in the here and now. not waiting to see the flat tax which hasn't served anybody else in the pack. >> arthel: justin, do you think rick perry can detail a plan that he's planning to do on tuesday, do you think he can come up with something that is going to fly? >> well, i think he's going to come up with something, he's going to try to attract the fiscal conservatives in the republican party to gravitate towards his campaign. he's been losing a lot of support among conservatives. i think that's why you'll see him put this tax out.

i was really disappointed to hear david go back to the classical class warfare, divide and conquer strategy of the democrats that doesn't serve our country well. we all need to come together. we need towering together. we don't need to be dividing people between classes and between income levels. >> arthel: justin -- >> you're absolutely right. >> arthel: i have to leave it there. justin gets the last word. david, i will see you on the internet. justin, when are you coming on? >> have a good weekend to you and your viewers. >> arthel: take care. thank you very much. >> rick: when we come back, new claims that the quest for solar power creating a major rift in u.s.-china relations. we'll look why some u.s. firms say china is crippling industry. don't go away. i wouldn't do that. pay the check?

no, i wouldn't use that single miles credit card. hey, aren't you... shhh. i'm researchg a role. today's special... the capital one venture card. you earn double miles on every purchase. impressive. chalk is a lost medium. if you're not earning double miles...

you're settling for half. was that really necessary? [ male announcer ] get the venture card at capitalone.com and earn double miles on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? cover for me. i have an audition. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projectsn the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to thplanet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ this is not how witness protection works! when we set you up with that little hardware store we didn't intend for your face to be everywhere. but fedex office makes it so easy. not only do they ship stuff, they print flyers, brochures -- everything i need to get my ne out there. that's the problem. now we need to give you a third identity.

you're paul matheson. and you're gonna run your business into the ground. erik gustafson would never do that! there is no erik gustafson. hey that's erik gustafson!!! there is no erik gustafson!!!!! [ male announcer ] small business solutions. fedex. solutions that matter. [ male so i got my nephew small bi neto build a website., i hired someone to make my website... five months ago. we are building a website by ourselves. [ woman announcing ] there's an easier way. create your own small-business site... with intuit websites. just choose a style that suits your business, then customize, publish and get found... in three easy steps. [ bell dings ] sweet. [ announcer ] all from just $7.99 a month. get a 30-day free trial... at intuit.com.

but last year my daughter was checking up on me. i wasn't eating well. she's a dietitian and she suggested i try boost complete nutritional drink to help get the nutrition i was missing. now i drink it every day and i love the great new taste. [ female announcer ] boost has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to help keep bes strong and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. and boost has the taste tht's preferred. your favorite patient is here! [ dad ] i choose being strong and active. i choose new and improved boost. >> arthel: there is new claims that suggest major problems in the u.s. solar industry may be directly linked to some illegal practices in china. several u.s. manufacturers

planning to file what's known as dumping charges. they claim china is selling goods at prices below production cost in, quote, crippling the industry here. here to discuss and a regular on cashing in and his name is jonathan, there he is. hello. and also joining us, managing partner for chatwood capital management. ed. hi. >> good to see you. >> arthel: ed, i'll start with you. do you believe that the basis of this lawsuit is valid and is it necessary? >> i definitely think it's valid. you really take back the layers of the lawsuit, what it comes down to, something we've been hearing about for years, that has to do with china manipulating its own currency to keep it lower. the claims are that the currency is somewhere between 10 and 35% under value and as a result of that, the chinese government is plowing a lot of money into the companies that make these solar panels themselves in eye china

and turn around and tell them in the united states for a lot less. there is a precedent. in 2009, the steel industry was facing the same thing from china and guess what happened? they won the lawsuit. i think that's what we're seeing right now. >> arthel: jonathan, how do you see it. >> there is no objective crime of dumping. if china wants to soviet union dies low cost panels, the only reason they're doing it is because we're subsidizing them at home. the only reason the solar energy industry exists is because not of china's currency manipulations, but our own energy policy in this country, which still involves unfortunately incentivizing green energy. what you get is companies like solyndra -- >> arthel: wait, wait. before you go to solyndra, explain what you just said. >> this country has -- this government, this administration has made incentive viesing green

energy that leads to mal investment and situations like this where you have money poured down the drain for no objective purpose. the answer is free trade and getting government out of the energy business all together. >> jonathan, i agree with free trade. you and i agree and i agree with a lot of what you say. i watch you and i think you're fantastic. but not everything is black and white. this is gray. i agree, we put money into this and we put money into green energy without any question. but this is different. what's different here is what are we going to have, a race to manipulate currency? we manipulate our currency? china is absolutely manipulating their currency. >> but it helps us. >> i think that's the whole point, if they want to subsidize industries to give u.s. consumers low cost goods -- >> arthel: listen to this, i see what you're saying about getting cheaper goods to the u.s. but how about those u.s. production facilities here inside of our borders, solar world, the largest u.s. maker of

solar panels recently laid off 66 workers in california. the past 18 months, seven solar manufacturers in the u.s. have shut down or cut back their production yet china shipped $1.6 billion of solar panels to the u.s. in the first eight months of the year. >> that is the thing of shipping it here because we incentivize that. but to your point of what happens to u.s. manufacturer, we don't make a lot of tv sets here. we don't grow a lot of avocados here anymore. a lot of industries don't exist anymore. the answer is to open up our borders and stop incentivizing green energy. >> arthel: ed? >> i mean, there is a lot of what he says that i completely agree with. i completely believe in free trade. >> except for the stuff here. why are you for protectionism? except in this case to benefit solar panel manufacturers? >> it's not so much that, but we have an issue in this country

and has a lot to do with energy. we have to become more self-sufficient. i completely believe in free trade. but right now as we're getting the energy and solar panels, we all know it's very expensive, we need to get this industry and this type of energy and technology off the ground and we're not getting off the ground because china is subsidizing it. >> if it's going to work, politically it's got to work economically as well. that's why the mal investment occurs. >> arthel: jonathan, you have just had the final word because i'm out of time. jonathan and ed, thank you very much and a complicated situation and i can see how, ed, you see it both ways in this particular case. thank you very much to both of you. and i'm here in the studio because rick left me. he's already outside. what you doing out there? >> i'm hanging out. i think i found out what i would like for hanukkah somewhere on this table. what's more expensive, the sony

laptop or the apple laptop that i'm holding here in this hand? we've got the best laptops on the market, whether you're a business person traveling around or a college student looking for one for your dorm. "consumer reports" will join us when we come right back. some vehicles sacrifice luxury to improve fuel efficiency. but the jeep grand cherokee uses advanced technology. like the quadra-lift air suspension that lowers the vehicle at highway speeds to improve aerodynamics and deliver a more than 540 mile driving range. so you can raise your standards while lowering your fuel consumption. ♪

[ whistle blows ] oh! [ baby cryg ] ben harper: ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing ♪ slowly turned into a scream ♪ there's an insurance company that ds that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

>> arthel: you probably already know laptop computers, they're some of the most popular items, they're hot, hot, hot. right? and making them this perfect gift for this holiday season, or just a way to treat yourself. >> rick: the choices are here. "consumer reports" has the prices. keep falling. we like to hear that. joining us, senior web editor, carroll. thank you for being here. four of the top rated, according to "consumer reports," top rated laptops out there and let's start with the one that i have my eye on. this is this one. >> this is a sweet machine. very beautiful design. and recently apple dropped prices on the mac book. this one came down to $1,000. >> rick: what was it? >> this is the mac book air. it's thin and light. it's a beautiful, portable machine. >> arthel: you're saying it's

ouch? >> -- how much? $1,000. it came down from 1400. very good deal for a mac book. >> arthel: usually the air doesn't have a place for my cd. >> yeah. i think anything like that, you'll have to add on. that's the nice thing. if you have optional things like that, then you don't have to carry them if you don't need them. >> rick: let's move on. this is one from sony. this is actually more expensive than the mac book. >> yeah. this is the sony d series and it's brand-new and it's very light and portable also. it's almost twice as much money as the mac book. but part of the reason is that its performance is super fast and it comes with this optional dock. if you want to be gaming or watch movies, you plug the dock in. if not, take it out. >> arthel: what is this? >> the gateway. it's our favorite budget machine right now. it's only $480. it's really reasonable for a machine that has a good performance. it's reasonably light for its

size, and -- >> arthel: i'm gog check, for $480. >> rick: great for a dorm room a student. >> i think a student would be great with this because you need a bigger screen when doing a lot of work. >> arthel: finally you have the hp? >> this is the hp. this is the 17-inch, more of a desk top replacement. it is portable theoretically, but i don't think you'll want to carry it around so much. >> arthel: sometimes the best machines are bulky. >> but gamers, people who need a bigger machine. it's a great family machine. like everyone can do their thing on it. you don't have to move it out of the family room too often. >> arthel: rick says that i think you said that the gateway is good for a dorm room. which one, if i'm a business person traveling, researching to documents a lot? >> probably go with the sony because it's got the slightly bigger screen and got the optional dock. when you're traveling on a plane and don't need that dock, you're traveling really light. i think that's important to

business people. >> rick: i love it. the prices are coming down. is that something you think will continue? >> i think so, yeah. for example, the newest class coming out, call ultrabooks. this is a specification from intel. they're going to be a lot less money. look for those. >> rick: see what those feels like? >> arthel: it feels like it should go in my purse! >> you can have that one. >> arthel: no, no. i can't. carol, thank you so much. >> rick: thanks for being here. that does it for us. >> arthel: nice to see you as always. stick around, though, because the fox report, harris faulkner, coming up next. enjoy the rest of your evening. thank you for joining us. >> rick: thanks. [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil

but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth! at red lobster. there's so many choices. the guests love it. [ male announcer ] it's endless hrimp today at red lobster. amuch as you like ny way you like, like new sweet and spicy shrimp, all for $15.99. my name is angela trapp, and i sea food differently.

[ spectator ] gun it, bro! what's this guy doing? dude. [ laughs ] whoa! whoo! no way! go, go, go, go! are you kidding? [ cheering ] oh, my god. did you guys see that? maniac. [ male announcer ] the midsize nissan frontier with full size horsepower and torque. innovation for doers. innovation for all. ♪