jenna: patti ann, thank you very much for that. nice to have a heads up. jon: incredible, the stuff that's floating towards hawaii. jenna: it's got to go somewhere. jon: that's right. thank you for joining us. jenna: "america live" starts right now. megyn: welcome, everybody. new details on a developing story, america's credit could be about to take a new hit. welcome to "america live," i'm megyn kelly. just months after the august debt ceiling and downgrade debacle in washington, a new warning from bank of america and merrill lynch that we will see in a second -- that we will see, i should say, a second downgrade by the end of the year. this is bank of america saying we're going to get another credit downgrade by the end of the year. according to a leading economist for the bank, quote, the credit rating agencies have strongly suggested that further rating cuts are likely if congress does not come up with a credible long-run plan to cut the deficit. hence, we expect at least one

credit downgrade in late november or early december when the supercommittee crashes. standard & poor's the first ratings agency to do it, moody's or fitch now in line to possibly following suit. stu varney of the fox business network joins me now. all right, two questions, stu: how big is this news, and what are the chances it will really happen? >> reporter: okay. question number one, let's go back to august when america's credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. that was really a shock to the system, it was a shock to the way we feel about ourselves and our financial culture and a shock to our standing this the world. standard & poor's downgraded us one notch, no longer aaa. as i said, big shock. answer number two, is it likely to happen? well, this analyst says, look, we are not cutting our debt fast enough, and this supercommittee -- which is supposed to cut the debt $1.2 trillion over a ten-year period and report by the end of november -- they won't be able to do it, much less they won't

be able to cut the $4 trillion that the agencies want. therefore, says ethan harris, another downgrade is very likely end of november, early december. another shock to the system. megyn: so he is basing this b of a analyst, bank of america analyst, he's basing this on what the supercommittee is likely to do, and he believes the supercommittee, as he puts it, is going to crash, it's going to basically crash and burn, they're not going to be able to accomplish much, and that as a result the credit's going to go down even further. >> reporter: that is correct. in a nutshell, that's the story. this 1.2 trillion that the supercommittee is aiming for, well, that's just not enough. the agencies say, no, it's got to be three trillion, maybe four trillion to show that you really have got a handle on your debt. to do that, to hit three or four trillion you've got to have a serious plan to rein in those entitlement programs. he believes, this analyst believes that the supercommittee is so completely split and there

is absolutely no agreement on the fundamentals that would get that $4 trillion reduction, he says it's going to crash, not going to happen. that's when the agencies step in and downgrade us again. megyn: wow. all right, stu, we'll keep an eye on it. thank you. >> reporter: sure. megyn: well, this predicted downgrade would be the second under president obama's watch if it happens. for his part, the president is today unveiling a new economic plan, one he would like to launch without the approval of congress. part of this plan includes a measure to help homeowners who are underwater, meaning they owe more on their home than it is worth. coming up, lou dobbs weighs in on the new proposal and why the president is pushing hard to get this enacted right away. fox news alert now, new developments in the disappearance of baby lisa irwin in missouri. we are now getting our first look at the search warrant, i've got it right here with me in my hand on the set, detailing specifically, hold on -- this is it -- and i want our viewers to know that the prosecutors in

this case, the police wanted this document to be put under seal. they asked the court to prevent you from ever seeing it to prevent what they say would be compromising details from getting out. well, you can see written on the search warrant, denied. the judge said no. so we have got a copy of the search warrant, we know exactly what it is the prosecutors were saying about what they wanted to find and what their justification was for their 17-hour search that they did of the irwin property late last week. trace gallagher live in los angeles with more details. trace? >> reporter: we have a copy as well, megyn. it's eight pages long, and it starts off, as you know, with a bunch of legal language. but, boy, on pages a 3 and 6, that's where they drop three bombshells, the biggest one being that a cadaver dog actually hit on a scent in the house. i want to put the wording on the screen. october 17, 2011, an fbi cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon concept of irwin and bradley, the participants. the cadaver indicated a positive

hit for the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of bradley's bedroom near the bed. the warrant also said that deborah bradley, the mom, told investigators that she department look behind her house -- didn't look behind her house because she was, quote, afraid of what she might find. it also says there were some signs of some freshly-turned dirt in the back backyard. now, for 17 hours they were in and out of that house wearing those white suits so they didn't contaminate the area. they took away six items only, and here's what those six items are. a multicolored comforter, purple shorts -- remember, the child was seen, said she was missing wearing purple shorts -- a multicolored disney character shirt, she was wearing a shirt with kittens on it, a glowworm toy, a cars-themed blanket, rolls of tape and a tape disspencer. the attorney for the parents said she's surprised the authorities didn't rip that house apart. listen. >> i went into the bedroom fully

expecting that i would see certain portions of the carpet cut out because if you sense evidence just like any other kind of evidence, so if you had that evidence, you cut it out, you collect it, you preserve it. >> reporter: the lawyer says the parents will not sit down and talk with police because they believe police already think they're guilty. she wallets a fresh pair of -- she wants a fresh pair of eyes on this case. the parents, by the way, did appear at a vigil for baby lisa last night. they didn't speak at all, they only took condolences for people coming by saying they are praying for them, and they thanked them for that. this is one of many vigils being held for the baby. again, the swarpt is big. police won't call us back or at least have not with more information about this, and as you said, megyn, they tried to keep this thing covered up. didn't work. megyn: well, it happens all the time where prosecutors and police don't want people to know what they're asking for. this judge did not see the need. the normal process is we get to

see. it's unb usual for a judge to place it under seal. that's the way our system is based. once you have a case in court, it's public knowledge, and this has become public knowledge as a result. trace, thank you. i want to tell our viewers a couple things, trace mentioned the purpose be l shorts, what baby lisa's parents say she was wearing the night of the disappearance. she may have had two pair, we have no idea. they also seized a glowworm toy. well, the parents of the baby told me in my interview with them that that glowworm toy was among the things that was in her crib, that there was a blanket in her crib. they seized the blanket. they seized rolls of tape, the tape's dispenser. here's what happened. i had my interview with the parents on sunday, the 16th. monday, the 17th, the cops go in there with a cadaver dog on the parents' concept. the dog allegedly gets a hit. the next day the lawyers or the cops go into court to get a more comprehensive search warrant and

cite as their basis among other things conflicting information that was revealed in interviews with the people involved. investigative interviews with the people involved reveal conflicting information for clear direction in the investigation. based on that, they get a more broad-based search warrant, they get the glowworm, they get the purple pants, the blanket and so on. and what the police also outline in this affidavit in support of their search warrant is a search of the surrounding area for evidence of the baby or cell phones has been met with negative results. so they have not located these cell phones. now, that's the first we've seen that officially. we department know about it, but the police are telling us they don't have the cell phones. why not? the mother told me they claimed to show her a map showing pings of the missing cell phones, and she thought it was a lie. she thought they were making it up. were they? because if they have the pings, why don't they have the cell phones? is they say for the first time in this affidavit they don't have them. are those cell phones with the baby? we don't know. well, coming up in about a half

an hour, for the first time since my lengthy interview with the parents, i will get a chance to speak with the lead attorney on the case, and i will ask him what they are now finding in connection with the search for baby lisa and about these reports that there is a mystery man cited on camera at least once and by eyewitnesses another two to three times on the night in question according to two witnesses holding a baby around lisa's age and matching her description. there is plenty to go over with him, and you will see him here live in about a half an hour. well, the iranian-american charged in a terror plot to assassinate the saudi ambassador to the u.s. pleading not guilty in a federal court. but the feds say the guy you see here has fessed up to his role in a plan to blow up a popular d.c. restaurant aiming at the saudi ambassador. that plot, the feds claim, had the blessings of some high-ups in the iranian goth. eric shawn is live from the

federal courthouse in lower manhattan. eric? >> >> reporter: hello, megyn. that not guilty plea coming just a couple of hours ago here at the federal courthouse in lower manhattan, and that alleged rain rain -- iranian terror plot. the suspect, arbabsiar, 56 years old, an iranian-american from texas, corpus christi, who had worked as a used car salesman allegedly recruited by the quds force to assassinate the saudi arabian ambassador to the united states. in court, arbabsiar sat not saying very much other than issuing that not guilty plea. the proceedings were very brief. authorities say he thought he was contracting with the mexican drug cartel's hitman, but that alleged hitman actually turned out to be an informant for the drug enforcement agency. their alleged plan, to bomb a washington, d.c. restaurant to kill this man, saudi arabian ambassador the ambassador is a stalwart of the diplomatic

community in washington who has represented his country for several years and has also been very close to the king. prosecutors say the price, $1.5 million, that arbabsiar even passed on 100 grand from the iranians to the confidential informant. this type of plan would echo similar attacks that iran has believed to have been behind in the past, specifically, the 1992 and 1994 bombings of the jewish center and the israeli embassy in buenos aires, argentine ya. 130 people were killed in those attacks. as for this alleged plot, iran calls it "baseless." back to you. megyn: be eric shawn, thank you. president obama now says he will do by executive order what he could not do through congress. coming up, details on the president's rescue plan for homeowners in trouble. and lou dobbs on the new rush to get this enacted.

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about aarp medicare supplement insurance plans, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. megyn: dramatic new video from turkey. a massive earthquake caught on tape showing the exact moment the quake hit. look at this. cameras rolling and shaking as terrified people run into the streets looking for cover from the collapsing buildings around them. the magnitude 7.2 quake killing more than 200 people, injuring more than a thousand others. right now as the search for survivors intensifies. we are learning about a much-needed sign of hope as rescuers pull a toddler from the rubble. emergency teams worked around the clock trying to reach the

toddler who could be heard crying underneath the ruins. officials fear hundreds more may be trapped, and adding to the anxiety, at least 20 aftershocks have rumbled through the quake zone. well, president obama expected to unveil a new economic plan in about two hours. as he says, we can't wait to boost this failing economy. the president using his executive authority to launch a plan, part of which will help homeowners who are underwater on their mortgages. it entails refinancing help for homeowners who have little to no equity in their homes. typically, refinancing is only available for those who have some equity in their homes, meaning they don't owe more than the house is worth. well, that would change that. the president's plan is designed to take effect with no congressional approval. lou dobbs is a fox business network host and a syndicated radio host and with me now. lou, the president says, and i quote -- that's a new mantra -- we can't wait for lawmakers to act, so he's going after mortgages, and he's going to go

help college students with respect to their loan repayments. on the mortgage, this mortgage help is rather controversial. there's a reason he couldn't get that through congress. >> reporter: there's a reason, it's because, you know, good judgment, you know, he can't wait for the constitution is what he's saying here. the fact is he doesn't have a surplus of really great ideas here. in fact, the housing bubble is the cause of the economic travail that we've been going through in this country for the past four years, and he has to surely understand that. megyn: he's trying to get it going again. and what he's trying to do is help those people who got squeezed because they signed up for these mortgages that they really couldn't afford, and when their housing value went from 200,000 to 100,000, they were 100,000 in the red, and now they can't refinance because they don't have any equity in their homes. >> reporter: and, by the way, those who do have equity or no equity, if they've just managed to keep up with payments, they'll be able to refinance any

amount. they won't have to bother with those little appraisal things. this is precisely the kind of shoddy nonsense that got us into the mess that we're in. both parties responsible. and let's be clear about that. democrats and republicans responsible for the mess that we're in. megyn: because they were leaning on fannie and freddie. >> absolutely. and this president now says unilaterally he will do precisely what he wants irresponsibly. this is one of the most irresponsible initiatives he could take. last time i looked, honest to gosh, megyn, we still have a constitution. he does not have this inherent power. these are two agencies, fannie mae and freddie mac, they have been nationalized. megyn: right. >> reporter: what is he doing? and the outrage that is going to follow this is going to be tremendous. megyn: but is it? is i mean, where could this lead? fannie and freddie, there's no

question that fannie and freddie had a major role in getting us into the mortgage meltdown crisis that led -- >> reporter: absolutely. by doing precisely what he's calling on them to do now. megyn: but now it's with respect to people who have mortgages, so maybe it's not as bad. you tell me. what he's saying the people who cannot get approved to refinance right now should be approved. >> reporter: and will be approved and won't even have to go through the appraisal process. it was a shoddy and even fraudulent process earlier, in the early 2000s, now dismiss the process altogether. this will lead to a further bubble, it will lead to more pain and heartbreak. one of the lessons of the past four years for every american should be this is a time to be stewards of our resources, to maintain our sense about what we can afford and exact, you know -- megyn: but he and many democrats believe that doing that, as you're proposing, has only worsened the crisis because the banks are not lending to credit-worthy people even who

are underwater on their mortgages, yes, because of the way things went down, but they are creditworthy, and the banks are just being tight-fisted. >> reporter: the people who are telling us that aren't credit officers of banks. it's time for people to understand there are consequences to public policy choices. we're living through the consequences. we will create an even greater disaster if we follow this kind of idiotic path. sure, i understand, look, i'm like anyone else. i want to see this economy just boom. but not at the expense of the american working man and woman and his and her families. they are now spending less because that is the prudent thing to do this these times of economic uncertainty. they are being careful with their resources which is the prudent thing to do. it is time for our government to emulate what the american public is doing. and that is be careful with their money, be thoughtful and understand there are consequences to the decisions we're taking. and to have this president actually offering up billions, hundreds of billions of dollars

in bribes so that a man with his low approval ratings can get reelected, it's not only -- megyn: a bribe for a vote, is what you mean. >> reporter: that's all it is. megyn: look, he says we're faltering, and we can't wait. >> reporter: we can't wait for our constitution, for people who disagree with him. he calls it bickering if there's a debate, he calls it waiting if there's a process by which we reach a judgment representing the american people. my goodness, how unfortunate for this president that he has to have his patience tested. megyn: well, we'll see. this, you know, obviously, will help some lawmakers and it will help some college students, too, because there's going to be some loan programs in there. lou, thank you. >> reporter: thank you. megyn: folks, new surveillance video in the search for lisa irwin. it shows a mystery man coming out of the woods. they claim he was spotted at least three times that night, some witnesses claim he was holding a baby. can you see that here? we'll ask the irwin family attorney what that might mean as

he talks to us for the first time. and is the cain train showing new signs of leaving the track? new fallout from his latest controversy just ahead. sweetie i think you need a little extra fiber in your diet. carol. fiber makes me sad. oh common. and how can you talk to me about fiber while you are eating a candy bar? you enjoy that. i am. [ male announcer ] fiber beyond recognition. fiber one.

megyn: the world's most wanted drug lord may be hiding out in the united states. mexican president felipe calderon telling the new york times he thinks joaquin guzman could be on american soil. his nickname is el chapo. his wife recently gave birth in the u.s. where she is a legal citizen. that's why they think he might be here as well. guzman has been a fugitive since escaping a mexican prison ten years ago. some of the west east worst fears about egypt's population -- sorry, popular revolution, the arab spring, could be coming true.

despite repeated assurances by many that it wouldn't happen, extremist muslims determined to turn their country into an islamic state, and they are beginning to fill the power vacuum left in the eight months since hosni knew or bar rack was forced out of power. leland vittert is streaming live out of cairo. reland? >> reporter: megyn, for so long egypt has been considered a staunch ally of israel and the united states, a country in the arab world that the west could count on. but now in these eight months since the revolution, the groups that are rising are anything but friendly. kicked out of the united states for being too radical, this man now runs a small tailor shop in cairo. but his real mission in life is far from making clothes. >> i'm trying to convert as many as i can because this is a war. it's to, you know, to wash the

brain of the people. >> reporter: he hopes a group with protesters who carried pictures of usama bin laden and demanded egypt become an islamic state. does that mean you'd like to see sharia law in egypt? >> >> yeah, yes. i'm against any other system. i am an enemy of democracy. >> reporter: it was a fallacy cleric who inspired the attack on israel eat embassy and the rise of radical islam in egypt has gone unchecked by the army. >> if women go out unveiled, they will be kidnapped, and that scared the heck out off everybody. >> like, you know, they're scaring everybody that muslims are going to cut the happened of the thief. i don't know why people getting scared of this. i mean, if you're not a thief, you shouldn't be afraid. >> reporter: they're already making their voice heard here inside egypt. over my shoulder is the american embassy, and there is a protest

going on there right now. they want the united states to release the radical cleric who was behind the 1993 world trade center attacks. he is one of their heros, and they said to me right now our protest is peaceful, but, megyn, they went on to warn that it may not always be that way. back to you. megyn: unbelievable. i don't know why you should worry having your hands chopped off if you're not a thief because their democrat court system works so well, and it's so reliable you could never be convicted unfairly. leland, thank you. unbelievable. well, the attorney general, eric holder s now attacking the tough new alabama immigration law, and wait until you hear the setting in which he did it. alabama's attorney genre acts here live -- reacts here live. and new reports that the president's re-election team is looking for new ways to reconnect him with voters. does this spell trouble for the president? do they know manager we don't? we'll tell you what's been happening to him on the campaign trail. and jaws is back.

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for governor rick perry from businessman steve forbes. mr. perry saying he consulted forbes about his flat tax plan which he will debut tomorrow. and michele bachmann brushing off the idea she has somehow given up on new hampshire, saying that she will replace the new hampshire staff that reported hi quit last week and focus right now on iowa because its caucus is earlier. and former massachusetts governor mitt romney making it official in new hampshire. mr. romney filing today for a spot in the nation's first presidential primary. chief political correspondent campaign carl cameron live in washington with more on that one. hey, carl. >> reporter: hi there, megyn. it's a ritual, all the candidates have to pay a thousand dollars to the secretary of state, and then they are on the first in the nation ballot, and after this weekend's events, we know now what the calendar looks like. the first votes are going to actually be ten weeks from tomorrow in iowa. the first in the nation caucuses will take place on january 3rd,

and the new hampshire primary will take place on the 10th, and that's why romney was eager to bask into what a lot of folks think is the glory he deserves for having initially pushed nevada to go earlier, but then wants them back to back off. this is his second time running in new hampshire. his dad once ran for president, and he leads the polls in the granite state by double digit, it is significant. his lead in iowa is challenged by herman cain. in fact, herman cain has a 10-point advantage in the first caucus state. and then there's south carolina where rick perry is competitive. romney is considered the national front runner in part because of the problems both perry and cain have had. cain is still trying to convince conservatives that he wouldn't negotiate with terrorists, and he doesn't believe that abortion is a family decision. he has been sort of walking back those comments for days now trying to persuade conservatives that he will be reliable on their core issues and that he made misstatements. if cain begins to slow down in

iowa, romney could find himself the front runner in the caucus state where he hasn't campaigned aggressively, and cain's success has really made it difficult for perry to get traction. mr. perry will unveil his flat tax proposal tomorrow, and as you said, megyn, he was endorsed by steve forbes today. forbes is single-handedly creditable with making the flat tax a regular presidential issue. in 1996 and 2000 forbes' candidacy made a flat tack so possible that even bob dole took it all the way to the general election. perry tomorrow in part is going with the flat tax proposal because it can, in part, stack up with cain's 9-9-9 plan which cain boasted was simple and would be easy to understand, and he's now changed. perry's got ten weeks to pull off a come-from-behind, behind cain and mitt romney.

megyn: all right. campaign carl cameron, thank you, sir. well, there's a new report today suggesting that president obama's campaign is facing a challenge when it comes to, quote, connecting with president with voters. some political analysts suggest that gone are the days of the rock star receptions we remember from the 2008 cam pay. a couple observers pointing to recent stops in virginia and north carolina during a recent meet and greet for the president. like this one that we saw a week ago. so is president obama now up against weary supporters who are not as swiewz christmasic -- enthusiastic and may have already checked out? joining me now, brad blakeman. brad, we're trying to get your counterpart, dick harpootlian, cued up, but we're having difficulties. our apologies to him. brad, there's this report coming out in the toronto sun where they interview a senior adviser for bill clinton who advised the former president, and they say a totally different story with

barack obama. whereas president clinton felt people's pain, the voters -- including democratic voters -- don't believe barack obama does. is that fair? >> it is fair. back in 2008 this president could do no wrong. as a candidate, he had the answers to everything. and now even his base is coming to realize that as president he doesn't have very much answers, and their lot has not gotten better under his leadership. when he first came into office, executive order, closed guantanamo. hasn't been done. immigration in the first year in his state of the union, hasn't been done. the stimulus was supposed to reduce unemployment to below 8%, hasn't been done. and the supreme court in june of next year will overturn obamacare. the very people who were supposed to be helped the most, his base, are the ones hurting the most with double the up employment of the rest of the country. so i think they are disillusioned, they can't believe that the person who was the candidate in 2008 has let them down, and i think that he's got an awful lot of work to do to reenergize his base.

megyn: all right. we're going to give dick a try. dick par -- harpootlian, let me ask you as a democrat if you can hear me, as a democrat, do you believe this president connects with voters the way bill clinton did? >> well, absolutely, i believe he connects with voters the way bill clinton did. and more importantly, i think brad's whistling in the dark. [laughter] every group i've been in before in south carolina and north carolina's been enthusiastic about this president, they're going to turn out in droves, they're excited. by the way, we ended the war in iraq this year, that took us, you know, two years to get out of what george bush started. he's had tremendous foreign policy achievements, and on the domestic front if republicans would let him pass this jobs bill, we could put a million and a half people back to work immediately. but it seems to me the republicans are more concerned about stopping this president from getting reelected than putting people back to work.

megyn: they're talking, brad, about the president going out on the campaign trail, several articles about how the president's having a lackluster reception at certain spots and not connecting, people not even wanting to shake hands or getting up there their table to greet the president. i mean, that's just anecdotal, right? that's, obviously, just a couple incidents, but does it speak of a shift from the rock star we saw on the campaign trail in 2008, and i witnessed it personally at, i mean, the democratic national convention was unbelievable for him. and where he is now. >> well, their base finally understood the emperor has no clothes. this guy has lacked leadership, he leads from behind, he subcontracts his leadership to reid and pelosi, and the things he was able to, quote-unquote, accomplish have backfired on him. he's been a disaster on the economy, health care is an absolute disaster where he had to take a big chunk out of his proposal even after it was passed and say that it turns out that we're not going to provide the long-term health care that we promised. so dick may say i'm whistling in

the dark, but, dick, you've got to come to the reality. look at the polls. the national polls and individual polls of the states, this president is being lost not only to his base, but to independents who he needs to win. megyn: and yet, dick, let me ask you this. if president isn't connecting, and i know you say he is, these articles suggest he's not, if he's not connecting, is somebody like mitt romney likely to connect more with the voters? >> no, flip-flop mitt is not going to connect with anybody. this was a guy that was for obamacare before obama. he's taken two different positions on abortion, on the economy. this is a guy that had a company that laid off workers and sent the jobs overseas. no, no, no. he is, i pray that he is the nominee because then you'll have barack obama standing against, standing next to mitt romney. and by the way, the republicans are getting ready the learn the basic rule of political science alchemy. one may not take, make chicken salad out of chicken manure.

[laughter] megyn: brad, it's an interesting question because let's say romney gets the nomination, and that's still very much in question right now. but let's say it's romney. he's a technocrat. so is barack obama. does either man inspire? you've got herman cain, he inspires. he's got some other political problems on his hands, but he inspires and connects. does either man, barack obama or mitt romney, connect like somebody like cain does? >> if it is romney against obama, obama had no private sector experience, he's been on the public dole his entire life. he ran for the senate to run for president. he did nothing in the senate, and now as president everything he tried to accomplish -- if it wasn't for bad news, this guy would have no news at all. mitt romney has a record of accomplishment on the economy. i have to believe the american people are going to look to somebody who has some expertise and who's done something and has a record of accomplishment against a president who promised the moon and delivered nothing. megyn: all right, guyuye got to leave it.

dick, we're glad we got your audio up. >> well, thank you. i wouldn't have been able to say chicken mature -- [laughter] megyn: right. last week you swore too, so we appreciate you being here. >> it was brad. [laughter] megyn: all right, guys, thank you. >> that was brad. he started that one. [laughter] megyn: you can check the tivo if you want to know what we're talking about. folks, we are now getting a look at a search warrant in the search for lisa irwin and details specifically what officials were going after. the attorney joins me live in three minutes on these reports today that a mystery man was spotted as many as three times on the night in question, at least two of which he appeared to have a young baby matching lisa's description. that's next. plus, new fallout after vice president biden unleashes on points of president obama's jobs bill suggesting, quite bluntly, that rapes and murders are going to go up if this bill does not pass. does he have a point? are the gop folks in the house to blame if that happens?

we'll tell you what some fact checkers found. >> i've heard from people opposing this whole jobs bill and this, but this is just temporary. let me tell you, it's not temporary when that 911 call comes in, and a woman's being raped, and a cop shows up this time to prevent the rape. it's not temporary to that woman. ♪

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or no collars. we are business in america. and every day we awake to the same challenges. but at prudential we're helping companies everywhere find new solutions to manage risk, capital and employee benefits, so american business can get on with business. ♪ megyn: back, now, to one of our top stories. investigators in missouri paying new attention to surveillance video taken the night baby lisa irwin disappeared from her home. according to eyewitnesses, a mystery man carrying a baby was sighted at 12:15 a.m. a couple of blocks, a couple of houses away from baby lisa's home. at 12:15 a.m., another sighting of a man at a gas station. look at this surveillance footage. it captures a man dressed in a white t-shirt leaving a wooded

area, but does he or does he not have a baby with him? baby lisa's father told police around his work -- no, it was a man named mike thompson, that he saw it around 4 a.m., he saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby at an intersection about three hills from the home, so at least three sightings of a mystery man, two allegedly with a baby. what do we make of it? well, for the first time since my lengthy interview with the parents, i'm joined by the lead attorney for the family. thank you so much for being here, we appreciate it. let me ask you about these reports that a mystery man, the first time he was sighted was three houses away from baby lisa's home at 12:15 a.m. on the night she went missing. these are neighbors who were apparently so concerned about what they saw, that on their own they called police the very next morning? >> yeah. i mean, you know, there's so many questions that this raises as far as i'm concerned. um, why are we hearing about this for the first time now?

you know, obviously, putting something like this out there may have caused more witnesses to come forward. i'm not here to question law enforcement tactics, but i've heard an awful lot about, you know, allegations and aspersions being cast on my clients, and this is stuff that, megyn, investigations are made of. this is watershed stuff as far as i'm concerned. you have three independent witnesses. of you know, if you have one witness seeing something like this, you could discount it perhaps or at least take it with a grain of salt because you just don't know if that witness' recollection was proper, were they seeing things, were they hallucinating, but you have three independent witnesses following almost a chart that leads away from the home, closest to the home and away from the home. and what is the likelihood of three independent witnesses who know nothing about this case or each other seeing an individual walking with a baby with just a diaper on at midnight, two in the morning and four in the morning? in october, by the way. obviously, something is wrong, and i really hope and pray this gives some answers to this

family and, hopefully, the safe return of lisa. megyn: i think everybody's hoping that. it's like you don't know what happened. lawyers, just because they represent clients, don't know what happened. i don't know what happened just because i interviewed them. no one knows except the people involved. and i think the people are looking into this theory that it was an intruder, but they're also looking at the parents, and you know they have to do that as a good lawyer. one of the things they really want to do is interview these boys again. there's a 6-year-old and an 8-year-old boy who sat down once with child experts, you know, it wasn't police interrogators, it was folks who are trained in dealing with children. and it only happened one time, the day after the baby went missing. would you allow them to have another sit-down with the boys in that context, with child experts, not with police interrogators? >> sure. with the appropriate, you know, surroundings, with the appropriate questioning, absolutely. i mean, don't forget, this family's yearning for answers. but to out a 6 and 8-year-old

who are going through i -- i've spent time with them, megyn, those two little boys. they're adorable, but they are shellshocked, and they're traumatized, and they don't know where their little baby sister is. they sat for five hours being questioned about things, you know? and they gave this story, you know? i understand wanting to be thorough and what not, but, you know, you have five hours with a 6 and an 8-year-old who were sleeping through most of the night, i mean, there's not really a heck of a lot more you need there them. that being said, if there are legitimate reasons to question them further, as long as the medical individuals, the individuals who take care of these children and are expert in the child welfare, um, would be involved and would condone it, then absolutely. but we just want to make sure no further damage is done to these children. they're right now forever scarred based on what's going on here -- megyn: yeah. obviously, the boys have been through a lot, too, but you know people's reaction is if you've got a third child missing, your

going to have the first two children talk. we're up against a hard break, but i want to ask you about the interview i had with your clients and in particular of the mother's testimony, she changed her timeline. we'll with right back. look, every day we're using more and more energy.

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megyn: rejoining me now is the attorney for the irwin family, joe tacopina. thanks for being with us. originally, when this case broke the police told us and deborah bradley, the mother, said the baby went missing sometime after 10:30. when i spoke with the mother two sundays ago, she changed the timeline and said, actually, she has no memory of seeing baby lisa past 6:40 because she got very drunk and may have possibly blacked out, never remembers seeing her again. joe, why did she change her story? why did she tell the cops it was

10:30 when, in fact, it was 6:40? >> well, there's a few things going on there, megyn, and they're totally consistent with, you know, innocence and not, certainly, a cover-up by any stretch. what it is is what you have going on is this mother is, remember, that night -- aside from whatever alcohol she consumed which, obviously, is her right to do as an adult after her children are asleep, um, you know, she suffered through an amazingly traumatic event that night. when misarrived, she was on the floor -- when police arrived, she was on the floor trembling, and i spoke to deborah and jeremy about how she reacted. she's trying to recall to the police the events of the night before as her mind is consumed with her missing daughter. so, you know, if things don't crystallize initially doesn't mean later if she remembers something or another witness helps her refresh her recollection which is, in this

case -- megyn: i apologize, we have such little time, but it's not like she said 6:40 and then she remembered that she had checked on her another time. she, apparently be, remembered a time that didn't exist when she talked to police. it was as if she invented the 10:30 checking on the daughter glsh. >> no. megyn: she later came out and said she never remembers doing that. >> no, no, no. see, and this is the problem with police interviews and leaks about what she said in the police interview. you know, what she'd said is routinely before she goes to bed around 10:30 she would check on her daughter -- megyn: no, but she told jeanine pirro she checked on her at 10:30 as well. >> because that's what she did as a matter of course and what she knows she did and another witness has supported is she put the baby to bed around 6:30. we know that. we know that when deborah's friend left and deborah went to bed it was around 10:30, 11:00. megyn: yeah. >> so she assumes she checked on

the baby, but that has nothing to do with the timeline in this case -- megyn: i'm very sorry, joe, i would love to keep you over, but we're five seconds away from[ f hard break.u th listen, thank you so much for coming on, we'll have you back. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit. v8. what's your number?

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♪ isit us onlto learn what makes our bank so different. usaa. we know what it means to serve. megyn: there are new concerns on the campaign trail for the man on top of the gop field for president. i'm megyn kelly. there are new worries the cain train could be jumping the tracks a bit in the glare of national front runner status on immigration, abortion and foreign policy. and these remarks on fox news. >> find a perfect candidate or a perfect person who will not make mistape and i'll show you someone 0 who was crawling 2,000 years ago.

megyn: what is the biggest issue for herman cain? >> abortion. in the republican primarily electorate there is no room for wiggling when it cops to that out in 2008 and he had to hold fast to his position. republicans just won't tolerate anybody who is not as herman cain says 100% pro life. but because herman cain always seems to have a "yes, but," when he answers questions, he leaves some lingering doubts saying it's an individual choice. conservative republicans have launched him into this position. megyn: does that mean you would interfere oh wouldn't interfere when it comes to federally fund

awoargs or abortion in general. here is what is jump out at me. herman cain we don't know where he is on abortion. mitt romney, where is he when it comes to healthcare. you have got rick perry who says he's going to crack down on illegal immigration yet he has a magnet in his state to illegals because he allows in-state tuition for children illegal immigrants. none of those frontrunners has it all? you know who does have it all on those three issues? she is at the bottom of the polls. her campaign in new hampshire is falling apart. if they just want somebody with those money issues why don't the republicans go with somebody like her. >> we have two months for republicans to decide where their heads are at. herman cain's boom comes from

the fact that republicans said we don't know too much about this guy, but everything he says we like. now it turns out things are more complicated. it's good for romney and perry. once republicans accept the fact that they are not going to have everything they want -- megyn: everything they want on paper? it might exist in somebody like a michele bachmann. they apparently are not connecting with her. we just did a segment on president obama, according to some democratic strategists, he's not connecting with people. and some of these other candidates are apparently not connecting with republican voters. but herman cain is. that's why his stumble made such big news. am i wrong? >> the other thing that's true is republicans don't believe michele bachmann on one he accepting points. she thinks it's inevitable that

barack obama will be defeated and republicans think it will be hard and they feel they might need somebody who is a little more moderate. they wants it all but they know they need somebody who can sell it in the middle and persuade independent voters too come to their side. megyn: if they want someone to can sell it in the middle doesn't herman cain's position make it? >> the big thing thing with cain more than anything else is that they change. and he has a hard time articulating exactly where he stands on these things taint makes republicans anxious. megyn: he has been quick to admit mistakes and say i have to study up on that. he said i have got to learn how to take a joke. but this seems to be the first

time where he's floundering in response to an issue that's become firey. >> timing and substance. people are paying more attention to him now that he's a viable candidate. megyn: does this ruin his chances in iowa and/or south carolina? >> it makes it harder in iowa. it opened the door for rick perry as he's trying to reengage conservative republicans to take another look at him after his debate stumbles. if herman cain can say something other than yes, but, maybe he can undo some of the damage. megyn: we were told this wasn't an election about social issues, but that assumed candidates were towing the party line on social issues. foxnews.com is your 247 source

for -- four 24/7 source for info. we have details on all the gop candidate and the president's campaign. check it out. big news overseas. word that syria ordered its -- s. ambassador to leave the united states and return to damascus. that after we called our ambassador home from syria. the state department says he don't know when ambassador ford may be allowed to return. he has engaged syrian authorities with his support of the protesters. you may have seen the video for the first i'm on "america live." moammar qaddafi captured alive and treated -- you can see it there for yourself.

it reportedly was shot moment before he was shot dead, but after the air strike. now the transitional government orders an investigation into the death of qaddafi, this over growing criticism over the way his body has been handle. jennifer griffin has more from the pentagon. >> reporter: lathe week the interim government, the transitional national council went out of its way to say that qaddafi was killed while in an glance caught in the cross-fire. now it turns out the same libyan leader mustafa abdel jalil appears to be backtracking. he's suggesting qaddafi may not have been killed in cross-fire. it's obvious the libyan leader may have been he can cuted. by home it' not clear. unauthenticated video interviews have emerged on the internet of

a young man who claims he killed qaddafi. he's holding a bloody shirt and a gold ring he says he took off the hand. he says i shot him twice in the head and chest. libyans continued to line up this weekend treating his body like a trophy. now they appear to have stopped the transitional national council has stopped the viewing and cut off the lines of people who wanted to see the body. but there is still cell phone video much him and his son and his former security chief laid out in a market where they were being held. qaddafi's family is demanding the body and that of his son be sent to them in algeria. a spokesperson said she thought his body would be sent to his family. but that's up to the interim libyan government at this point,

megan. megyn: it weighed more than 5,000 pound, about the size of a city bus and the german government doesn't have a clue where it is. the search for a fallen satellite. the man convicted of a brutal home invasion and murder says he is a serial killer with 17 victims and souvenirs to prove his claims. we'll investigate. vice president joe biden say the rape and murder rates will rise if americans don't approve his jobs bill. >> in between when flint had 144 police officers, the murder rate climbed to 65. and rape 22. in 2011 you now only have 125 shield. god only knows what the numbers will be for this year for flint

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megyn: fox news alert. we are following breaking news on a school shooting in fayetteville, north carolina where police say a 17-year-old girl was shot in the neck at cape fear high school during lunch. there is no word on her condition on why she was shot or who the shooter is. these breaking developments are just coming in. a 17-year-old girl was shot. let me update that. the neck information is not confirmed. just that she was 17 and shot at cape fear high school during lunch. as soon as we have more we'll bring it to you. fact check the vice president after a controversial attack on republicans. >> they either are going to figure out how to help those cities the way we want to help

them or some other way. but if they don't get help accumulation will go up. it's that simple. it's just a physical reality. megyn: mr. biden saying rape and murder rates will rise in several american cities if republicans block a bill aimed at police jobs. prints michigan, and camden, new jersey where he made the remarks have seen sharp declines in violent crimes. plus there were questions about why police were laid off in these two towns at all and whether these house republicans should as the vice president suggests in fact be blamed. matt mccall is with us. fact check.org says the vice president mississippi stated facts, that -- as mississippi

state.facts 7/. that not all this organize found. they say what he has doins create a fiasco. >> he's fear man gerg. first the facts are incorrect. he's trying to put fear into the voters and the gop at the same time by trying to pass through bills to bail out municipalities that overspent in good times and now are paying for tonight troubling times. what he doesn't bring up is the fact that it's probably the administration's fault and secondly the municipalities' fault and unions as well. in good time they are spending way too much. but then the unions -- think about how much the emergency workers are making in many of these places. in flynt, michigan, a police officer who has been on the force for 10 years makes twice as much as the entire household median income of anybody else in that city. nothing against police. by you have to take a reality check that we can't keep

affording police, fire, teachers at the rate they are getting paid due to the unions and the contracts they have. megyn: i see your point. that speaks not so much top our federal government but the local governments. the unions go in there and bargain for these contracts. no one forced these municipalities to agree to them. politically they may have been forced. but they did, matt. the state governments, local governments did. they signed lucrative contracts for these unions. the healthcare for life and it's not taxable. that they could not afford and not you unions are collecting. ed unions got the deal. if the city workers hadn't agreed to it they wouldn't have gotten it. now the cities can't pay and they want the federal taxpayers to pay. how is that the fault of anybody other than these state and city workers who agreed to the

contract? >> i'll agree it is their fault. in good times they thought they would continue to bring if tax receipts above average. now the housing market turns around and the amount of money they are bringing in can't afford the union contracts. megyn: why should the federal taxpayer step in and back stop it? >> i don't think they should. the feds have stepped in already to help these states. they are short-termifics. they are taking taxpayer money and throwing it at municipalities. what the government needs to do is take that money and spend that on increasing the economy and getting the economy back on track. if the economy from coast to coast gets back on track, they get more tax revenue to take care of the situation. but unions have to realize if they don't step up and renegotiate the contracts they got into. but they have to negotiate because otherwise their brothers

and sisters on the force will get laid off. megyn: now thatter in the situation they are in. rather than the union look as the itself, looking at its own members and saying we'll have to cut back on certain benefits, pay raise and so on so we can saver the jobs of more police officers rather than doing that, they are look at uncle sam, and the federal taxpayer saying give us another check, basically prp they refusing to negotiate in the way i outline? >> the majority of them are. but the ma jefort them are. i see their argument. i can see the fact that -- it's a contract. but the thing is, if you want to step up for your fellow coworkers and you may be the one that gets laid off if the cuts continue to come. in this type of environment you have to take a step back and say what's the best for our entire union. the union is the con gom raft all the people work under that. megyn: it am not like anybody is

points as the these municipalities saying you are irresponsible. or people are looking at the unions saying you got a sweetheart deal vawnl to take a haircut if you want to save the jobs of these police. they are look at the federal tax pairs either you fork over more dough, one-on-one, or you are going to have to live with the fact that you caused rape to go up, you caused howard go up. >> why do you think they are saying that? this administration set a precedents that the federal government will always step in and back stop you. we have been doing this for years. if we had the impression we would always save them and they continue to spend, of course as a union and municipality i'll turn to the federal government. neither one wants to make a tough decision. unfortunately you and i pay for the fact municipalities spend like drunken sailors during a good time. because theme passing these union contracts are getting reelected by the same people.

megyn: you ask why would these municipalities agree to these deals? they are depending on the people across the bargaining table from them. it's not up to the federal taxpayers. matt, thank you. interesting. we are taking your thoughts on it at kelly@foxnews.com. mexico counts owfnlt s. tourists spending millions of dollars south border. but drug violence is threatening one hot spot. what mexican authorities * doing to keep the country safe. they have called out the shark hunters it's a hollywood script coming this hour. attorney general eric holder attacks the tough new alabama immigration law. the state attorney general

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megyn: we are following new information on a school shooting in fayetteville, north carolina. police say a 17-year-old girl was shot during lunch at cape fear high school. noise word on her condition or why she was shot, but apparently students in the area say they heard a pop and saw her fall. police are searching for the shooter. they say there is no threat to the public. a high school and nearby middle school are now on lockdown. we'll continue to follow these breaking developments as we get them. a new twist on the drug war playing out south border. mexican police introduction a special division to escort

american tourists through northeast mexico. the area is a popular destination for hunters. steve harrigan live in miami with the details. >> reporter: ordinarily dove hunting season in northern mexico would draw thousands of hunters. but now things are gone the so dangerous even hunters can't go out alone. if you plan on taking a hunting or fishing vacation in mexico you may have some company. armed guards now used by many lodges to keep their clients safe from run-ins with the drug cartels. fish and dove fishing zones near the u.s. broard also battle zones in the drug wars. forcing 250 hunting lodges to shut down. threatening the tourism industry. >> we lost 95% of our business. people from the states used to

come here a lot. >> reporter: the battle among the cartels have left 43,000 people dead and exposed the police force as complicit. a national guard is being formed to fight the cartels. there is also training to defend against what may be the most potent weapon in the cartel's arsenal. the 100pesos note. that an ethic class. they are trying to drill into these new recruit's heads to resist bribery from the drug cartels. megyn: we have breaking news in the michael jackson case. the case of his personal doctor. the defense is now calling its first witness. the prosecution has rested. we'll show you how they hope to convince this jury both sides coming up in "kelly's court."

a man who is already convicted of arson, rape and murder says he has done things that are even worse. the breaking news on steven hayes. this is the face of evil, folks, next. unbelievable. plus the attorney general eric holder using a civil rights memorial to attack alabama's tough new immigration law. the state's attorney general reacts to that after this break.

megyn: a shocking new claim for one of the men convicted in connection with a brutal home invasion case in connecticut. steven hayes bragging about killing 17 other people and keeping their sneakers astro if is. hayes was sentenced to death in a home invasion that left a mother and two young daughters dead. the penalty a face ofs codefendant will get underway. there is no doubt this man is the embodiment of evil. now he just adds to our worst fears. >> reporter: we are talking about a guy who wrote allegedly four letters on death row and he addressed them to a woman named

lynn no who lives in north carolina. in the letters he allegedly braces about committing numerous sexual assaults. how would drug his victims, take them to hotels. often videotape the crimes, then steel their sneakers. his sneaker fetish came out during the trial. police seized an ungnome number of sneakers from hayes' home and the 17-year-old petit girl's sneaker was found in his car. the codefendant wanted to use the letters during this trial but the judge rejected that calling the letters unreliable. antlers call him not worthy of being hayes' partner. they said he had evil intent.

hayes also allegedly asked this woman in north carolina not to make this information public until after he was executed because in his words he said that if people knew about this information in the right hands, they could make millions of dollars. wham unclear is that police are trying to link 17 other cold cases or unknown murders to steven hayes. megyn: trace, thank you. new attacks over alabama's controversial immigration law. the matest jab from attorney general eric holder. he accused alabama of quote turning their backs on our immigrant past. the justice department is suing to block the law which allows the schools to collect immigration status of students. joining me now is the man defending this new measure.

the alabama attorney general. i want to get your reaction to the united states attorney general. he was asked in an event honoring a civil rights icon and chose that event down in alabama to attack your law saying he is not going to let alabama quote turn its back on our immigrant past saying this law apparently does that. >> well, i was disappointed to hear him say that. our flags are at half staff honoring the reverand for the great work he did and sacrifices he made. but i took an oath when i was sworn there at attorney general, i think the same oath attorney general holder took to uphold the constitution and the laws of the united states. alabama's laws are aintended to assist the federal government in upholding the laws against illegal immigration. it has nothing to do with

honoring our immigration history. but i hate to see him use an important day to interject politics into this issue. megyn: the department of justice believes the law is discriminatory and will lead to targeting of hispanics and they have gone so far as to set up a bilingual telephone hotline and special email for people to report any violence or threats based on racial or ethnic background that could be linked to this law. and thomas perez who heads up the civil rights division. he says indeed we are hearing a number of reports about increasing -- increases in bullying. your response to mr. perez and the doj's latest move? >> i think that's politics. we are trying the case in court. two federal courts looked at the alabama law and upheld the majority of it. the law enforcement people in

alabama, the men and women keeping our citizens safe. no one can be profiled under his law or deported under this law. it asks the department of justice to work the state to identify people who are here illegally. at that point the united states government can make a decision on whether to deport them. we extra tough situation here in alabama with high unemployment and minority communities especially. we are trying to get beam back to work. fan we appreciate the justice department itself in enforcing the law, not finding ways to help us get in the way of enforcement. megyn: you guys got a decent victory at the trial court level. she let most of the law forward. but clipped you on a couple of items. it went up to the 11th circuit. you are still battling that out. but certain other provisions were even joined including the provision that requires schools to check on the immigration status of students. that is controversial.

teachers are say where is the money for that? you passioned it, how how are we supposed to do that and are you inject an unnecessary shine between students who different' tough enough for them to get along and learn these days. >> it is. i think the point of the legislation was at this time get a number of for the illegal students with parents without legal status, but there was no penalty provision in that law. there is no enforcement mechanism. it was a data collection process. i don't think it has had an effect on school attendance. we want our children to come to school whether they are here legally or illegally. no one will prevent them from doing that. the side in favor of open borders is trying to create chaos and use alabama, utah,

arizona, georgia, south carolina and other states trying to address this serious issue and the federal government is not. megyn: i want to stay on the schools for a moment. there are parents of kids who say if i'm here illegally and my child is in school, i'm not going to go report it if he gets bullied because i don't want attention on my kid because of this law and i don't want the state to crack down on him. it's not his fault so they are saying kids are going to be subjected to bullying and what can amount to emotional torture because of this law. >> i know that's what mr. perez and his group is saying. but i see very little evidence of that. if we ever find that case occurring we'll address it. i know our school systems, our principals, teachers, they have spoken on this subject. we are not going to tolerate any

kind of racial profiling or bullying wherever it occurs. as soon as we know about it we'll address it. but it atmosphere an issue we are serious d it's an i shall -- it's an issue we are serious about. megyn: how do you feel about your chances when this gets up to the 11th circuit and it takes a look at this on its entirety. >> i think our chances are very good. alabama doesn't set up an immigration policy. we can no more deport someone than you could, megyn. our system is set up to if we have a reason, to pull someone over and find out that they are here illegally, we then report that to the federal government. the federal government makes the decision on whether they want to take them into custody, deport them or whatever. that's where i would like to see to cooperation from the federal government as opposed to the attacks that are by and large baseless in my opinion.

megyn: thank you so much for being here. we appreciate your time. >> thank you very much. megyn: scientists have told us this cannot happen. but there are now reports that a great white shark has become a serial killer of sorts. targeting human beings. that's not normally what sharks do. but it's to the point where three swimmers are dead, including one american diver and now there is a real life hunt to track down this real life jaws type shark just ahead. a milestone in the man salute were trial of michael jackson's doctor. the prosecution has rested. folks. how did they do? the start after new chapter in this case is up next in "kelly's court." the postal service is critical to our economy--

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megyn: "kelly's court" is back in session. watch this.

>> your honor, at this time subject to receipt of exhibits, southbound their receipt, the people are prepared and would ask to rest at this time. megyn: prosecutors resting their case moments ago against a man accused of killing michael jackson. the people of the state of california calling their final witness in dr. conrad murray's manslaughter trial. today the defense tried to discredit the doctor's testimony and the prosecution appears to believe it has made its case. has it? joining me now lis weihl and defense attorney mark eiglarsh. lirks s, tell us what the prosecution did with this last witness. >> they put dr. shafer on. he is -- he knows everything about propofol.

he knows everything about this drug. they put him on. wait a second, could michael jackson have ingested that? dr. shafer said absolutely not, it's impossible to have done that. they ended their case with that. megyn: he listed something like 17 critical mistake that dr. murray made in taking care of michael jackson. he's trying to get at the defense one way and then another say fell wasn't negligent in giving the propofol he was negligent in this way. he should have monitored and done cpr. he backdoored every claim the defense is making. did they make their case beyond a reasonable doubt? >> yes, but we are not done. it's like decided who won the game at halftime. you have got 15 witnesses the defense is going to call. i can't wait to hear who they are going to pull out to somehow suggest that what conrad murray did was okay.

i'm not making any decisions at this point so i'm not clear on exactly how this happened. the defense has raised some issues. megyn: mark has been saying he thought they would argue that michael jackson ingested the propofol. now they have abandoned that theory. that came out last week when we were talking about baby lisa. they are not going with that theory. they are going with he injected himself. but not ingested. this is dr. shafer, the prosecution's big wrapup with itness. listen to this one q and a the defense asked the guy on cross-examination and the admission the prosecution's witness made. >> one of the things you said on your -- in your testimony was you could not discount the possibility that michael jackson reached up, woke, reached you have and turned on or turned off the limiter on the i.v. site, is

that right? >> correct. megyn: . you know you are in the hospital, they give you have pain medication. you hit the thing to give yourself pain medication. there is a limiter so you can't o.d. >> first all, megyn, when we impanel jurors we tell them one thing very important. don't leave your common sense at the door. bring your common sense to it. could that possibly in a fantasy world of .11% have happened? maybe. that's what the good doctor was saying. but that's not reasonable. you have know reasonable doubt. that's not reasonable doubt. it's not beyond any doubt. megyn: isn't it true the defense on closing argument is going to try to drive a freight train through that admission? >> of course. that was huge. no one said .000% like lisa is

throwing out there. it's possible. those who feel michael jackson's life has been chief valued by the defense, those who feel in favor of conrad murray, and they will, they will say he was a phenomenal doctor not in the propofol arena, but in the heart area? megyn: the defense appears to be developing another theory. we only got to hear their cross-examination of the prosecution witnesses. not the full-throated theory. this appears to be the backup theory. if he didn't ingest or inject the propofol it was the lorazepam that did it. he may have swallowed several pills of that sedative lorazepam which led to his death. the expert on the stand dr. shafer called it trivial but

that's another area where they are trying to create reasonable doubt. >> assuming all that, buy all of that. dr. murray then leaves the room when michael jackson is -- everything is failing, calls his girlfriend, then when the emts come there and in the hospital doesn't say anything about it? that's cross negligence right there. megyn: writes the line between you, dr. conrad murray committed malpractice? is there any dispute he committed malpractice? >> if we are being intellectually honest, yes. megyn: doctors commit malpractice all the time and it doesn't wind up in involuntary man salute were charges. where do you draw the line. >> you hope the jurors focus on what was the cause of death and if there is a reason to doubt

the prosecution's theory, that perhaps michael jackson could have administered some type of dose, somehow contributed to his own death -- megyn: does it not help your argument, the defense argument that michael jackson was a bizarre man and we all know that. and we believe of had a serious drug problem. >> absolutely. that's it. that's what the defense will continue to do, show him as a desperate addict. >> we are not talking about a mopt or father or brother or sister, we are talking about his physician who was paid money to take care of him. why wasn't he doing that, mark? megyn: they will make the argument the personal physician should have known of the drug dependency and not left the client alone. >> the argument is he's trying to wean him off. no good deed goes unpunished. megyn: we'll live to argue the

case another day. thank you, all. three swimmers are dead and now there is a real life hunt gear they say is a real life jaws. that's next. looking good! you lost some weight. you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. multigrain cheerios... you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. ♪

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megyn: a massive hunt is underway for a man-eating great white shark off the coast of australia. three swimmers are dead, including an american diver. >> reporter: there have been 24 fatal attacks in the last 27 years. now in less than 7 weeks there have been three fatal shark attacks off the australian western coast near perth. one isn't quite sure if this is the shark or if the same shark is behind all three of those attacks, but they know the shark

is very aggressive. the australian authorities are reacting similar to what they did in the movie jaws. they issued for the first time ever a catch and kill order for the shark. they are patrolling local beaches and they are talking about putting surf nets you have on beaches. >> the chances of catching that same shark is 1%. there are so many sharks in that region. there is a lot of activity and marine life. >> reporter: the latest attack was on a 32-year-old texas man. he was diving. his friends were in the boat. they saw a flurry 6 bubbles, then watched in horror as his body surfaced with injuries it was too late by then. friends say the shark was a 10-foot great white shark. the man's family is devastated.

>> he was an extraordinary person. he was one of a kind. like my sister said, he is more than just a quick news spot. he was our brother and we loved him and he will be missed. >> reporter: the two other recent attacks. one was a diver and the other was a swimmer. all three have the same have it. still unclear fit' the same shark. megyn: thank you. new clues in the search for a missouri baby missing for three weeks. new surveillance individual ohio, witness accounts and a cadaver dog hit raising new questions about the fate much little lisa irwin. all this coming up in a live report in our next hour. he's t. new one a day vitacraves plus omega-3 dha is a complete multivitamin for adults. plus an excellent source of omega-3 dha in a great tasting gummy. one a day, gummies for grown-ups.

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