here. we are definitely looking out for you. >> welcome to the special edition of hannity. we are from the capitol building in columbus, ohio. in just a moment i will be joined by presidential candidate herman cain. also you will hear from ohio governor and michelle and many more. but first there's new evidence that herman cain has indeed taken over the status as frontrunner for the republican nomination. according to a fox news poll released a short time ago, herman cain now leads mitt romney 4 points, newt gingrich rounds out the top three with 12%, followed by rick perry and ron paul. to put in perspective, cain's epic surge, he received only six

percent of the vote about the survey was taken in august. and things are no different for cain. one poll has him on top with 28% of the vote, leading romney by 5 points, and ron paul with 8% of the vote. what's interesting in a three-way primary race in ohio, cain defeats romney by 7 points and perry by 30. joining me to talk about his rise to the top is businessman, republican presidential candidate, the one and only herman cain. those numbers have to make you feel pretty good. >> well, they make me feel pretty good, but also means that we have to still continue to work hard. we are very pleased with that but we are not letting up and we are sticking to our strategy. >> what do you think is the reason for this incredible rise you have had? and the question a lot of us had early on, pawlenty was up, down-and-out, michele bachman had a surge, perry had a surge. you seem to be maintaining it.

what's the reason that you think you are able to maintain this surge? >> i think that the florida straw poll that took place about three weeks ago really sent the message, number one, the voice of the people is more powerful than the voice of the media, with all due respect. the second thing that came out of that, sean, is that message is more powerful than money. right from the beginning, and you've seen it in the dough -- the debates, i have talked about solution to problems, developed the solutions and shared them with the public and they are connecting with the public. you know that my economic growth and jobs plan has become very popular with the public. 9-9-9 plan but i have also put other ideas on the table. so i believe what's happening, base on what people are telling me, is that the fact that i have a direct, clear message about how i would address these crises we face is resonating with the

american people and i think that has driven it a lot. >> all right. what do you make of the last debate? i think the full first half-hour of that debate was spent on your fellow candidates criticizing you, criticizing the 9-9-9 plan, asking you some pretty tough questions about it. you know, i guess you probably liked it because you got a lot of airtime, but did you feel that you explained it to the extent that you want to explain this plan to the american people and convince them, a, you can pass it, and, b, this is revenue neutral, and even, c, that this is the right plan for america? >> i knew that the bulls eye on my back, sean, was big, but i didn't know it was that big until that last debate. and i did not feel as if i was able to explain the attacks adequately because, as you know, you only get 30 seconds to respond. but the good news is i continue to deflect it by saying you haven't read the plan, haven't read the analysis.

the good news is art, who is one of the most respected economists on the planet, wrote a very nice article that appeared in the wall street journal, basically confirming everything i was trying to say. during the bait i didn't add getly do it, but i have since then been able to explain it to a lot of people, as well as answer to lot of questions. and i think a lot of people realize that most of those attacks, sean, had no basis whatsoever. >> do you worry by opening up a sales tax without eliminating the income tax -- for example, i know years ago you were a pretty strong supporter of the flat tax, which would be a consumption tax, but a tax that would also eliminate the irs and get rid of the income tax. so do you worry that there's going to be so many different venues where politicians in the future can go 9-9-9, 10-10-to

10, and 15-15-15 and more with future administrations that come into play? >> no, i don't worry and here's why. number one, introducing a sales tax, let me clarify one of the also attacks from the debate. it is not a bad tax. even governor perry is referring to it as a bad tax. it is not a bad tax. it is a single rate tax at the register. and another reason i don't worry is, first of all, it's visible. the american public will hold congress' feet to the fire and not run away in raising 9-9-9 to some other outrageous numbers. and introducing a national sales tax, we throw out 2,000 other ways for us to be taxed with the 82,000 page tax code. you and i both know the current tax code still sneaks in taxes and many took place we don't know how we are being taxed.

i'm not worry about that. and the other reason i don't worry about it, the american people, they get it. they are chanting 9-9-9 which means if bureaucrats and politicians want to try to raise it without a very compelling reason, i believe that the american public is going to hold their feet to the fire. i'm not worried about it. >> all right. now, you came out recently with an add that, we call it the smoking ad, and it's gotten a lot of play all over the media. we played it last night on this program. frankly, i can't figure out the ad so i want to run it and hopefully you can explained me what this ad is about. pretty funny ad, but i want to give you a chance to respond. [laughter] >> i really believe that herman cain will put united back in the united states of america, and if i didn't believe that, i wouldn't be here. we run a campaign like nobody has ever seen. but then american has never seen a candidate like herman cain.

we need you to get involved because together we can do this. we can take this country back. ♪ i am america ♪ one voice united we stand ♪ i am america ♪ one hope >> all right. that smile at the end, explain that ad to us. [laughter] >> all right. we have a saying in my campaign, sean, let herman be herman. this is the attitude that i have when i do debates, this is the attitude i have when i do interviews, let herman be herman. mark block is my chief of staff. and we also say let mark be mark. mark happens to be a smoker. he knows it's a bad habit but he smokes. so we weren't trying to send any subliminal message whatsoever. many of us found it hilarious

because we know mark block. so there was no hidden message there other than we were in vegas and we wanted to put something new out on the internet because i was inundated with other requests, and i trusted mark block, which i still do, and i thought he did a great job with the ad. the person who did the ad for us added the little scene at the end that, quite frankly, as you say has caused all of the stir. but that was no hidden message other than mark block saying that america has never seen another candidate like herman cain. >> herman, they are attacking you on paying your taxes, on the issue of foreign policy and abortion. when we come back, we will ten after the break as a special edition of hannity continues tonight from columbus, ohio, and later on the governor of ohio will join me to balk about his showdown with labor. all that ahead on this he had eggs of hannity.

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>> welcome back. we are live in columbus, ohio. we continue with the presidential candidate, the one and only herman cain. you had stage four cancer, i believe it was 2006. you had extensive treatment for this. and i thought this was a pretty cheap shot that during the time you were getting your cancer treatment you might have missed a state tax payment, which by the way i believe you fixed the next year. now i guess when you rise to the

top, you have that bulls eye on your back, and this has now come up as an issue. what do you say to people who are criticizing you for that? >> well, people, you are absolutely right, sean. 2006 i was trying to stay alive. i only had a 30% chance of survival. the good news is i have now been totally cancer free for five years. and, yes, we may have missed the filing of one of the states, and they filed a a lien, but we took care of it. what i have to say to people that have to dig that deep to find something to say about herman cain, it simply says my message is resonating. and my message is connecting. if they have to dig that deep to come up with something negative, then we don't have anything to worry about. and as you know, it's only going to get worse because of those poll numbers that you referred to earlier. it's only going to get worse. and i'm just going to warn listeners and viewers now, watch

out, it's going to get worse. and the thing we've concluded, and you know this, some stuff they are going to just make up because they are trying to distract us from our message, they are trying to distract us from our strategy, but we aren't going to be distracted. we are going to stay on message and we are going to continue this campaign the way we have laid it out because it's working. the american people are connecting. >> you know, in the last debate, i mean, it's gotten so insane right now that they actually, you know, were saying that rick perry made a big mistake because he called you brother in that debate. and, you know, i spoke with you about it, and the first thing you did is what you are doing now, you laughed. what is your reaction to that? >> my reaction is, you know, for them to try and figure out whether there is some hidden meaning. i even had a reporter asked me were you overred by that? no. rick perry is a christian brother and rick perry is someone that i respect. i'm not offended that somebody

calls me brother. but this is how desperate some reporters, not all, there are a lot of good reporters out there, this is how some desperate reporters are, sean. to try to come through with the breakthrough headline or secret. let me still you a secret, you aren't going to fine that breakthrough story trying to find something that offends herman cain t takes a lot more than something like that to get me upset. >> let me go to the issue of abortion. we had congresswoman michele bachman man on last might and she says your position on abortion is inconsistent. i want to give you a chance tonight to clarify it. here are the two instances we are talking about. >> if one of your female children, grandchildren, was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own? >> you are mixes two things.

>> why? >> you are mixes two things. >> but that's what it comes down to. >> no, what it comes down to is it is not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. not me as president -- >> but i guess the question is do you believe abortion should be legal in this country for families who want to make that decision? >> no. no. no. i do not believe abortion should be legal in this country if that's the question. i want to give you a chance to clarify. does that mean in the cases of rape, incest, et cetera, mother's life, do you make any exceptions? >> let me go back to this, sean. i am and have always been pro life from conception. that piece was totally taken out of context. it's interesting they didn't go back to the other 100 interviews that are on tape somewhere that

says that i am consistently pro life from conception. it was taken out of context, and because in that piece right there, they didn't show the first part, i used the word "choice" talking about a specific situation that he was trying to pigeon hole me on. and that's what they used to try to come after me. i am pro life from conception, end of story. >> all right. let me ask you, now that your economic plan has been resonating, it seems, and i have been reading that the other candidates in this race now think that there might be a weakness in terms of your foreign policy experience. you worked for pulse bury, you worked for coke, you worked for burger king and godfather's pizza. you've done a lot of turnarounds, and your plan as obviously resonated on the economy. in one point you said you don't know what the right of return was. do you feel that you have the

experience in foreign policy considering that has not been your professional area of expertise? what do you say to those critics. i would say do you think i'm dumb enough not to study up on these issues? i have been studying for months. i can explain right of return better than they understand right of return because you get caught off guard, you go to school and you learn. i challenge them to try to explain it to me. secondly, i have been consulting with former ambassadors, former national security advisers, i have been consulting with a number of experts to get up to speed on some of the situations we have around the world. so i have been been just sitting still. and i challenge anybody to say that i wouldn't know how to approach foreign policy because, unlike some of the other people, i at least have a foreign policy philosophy, which is an extension of the reagan philosophy.

peace through strength, and my philosophy is peace through strength and clarity. unable we need to clarify who our friends are. we need to clarify who our enemies are so we can stop giving money to our enemy michigans and we can tell the world who our friends are that we are going to stand with, like the country of israel. all of the details for each individual situation, we've got plenty of experts. but what a leader must do is to be able to state some fundamental principles, and a fundamental philosophy. listen to the input and make judgments. i haven't been just sitting still and not going to school since they have been trying to pain me as not having foreign policy experience. >> all right. have you thought of who you might want to choose as your vice president should you win the nomination? >> well, yes, let's say that i have had a few thoughts about that. but it is still too early to mention any names, sean. but i have -- let's just say the short list is getting shorter.

>> okay. you don't want to share maybe like two or three or four with us? [laughter] >> no, sean. >> i'm trying. it's my job, herman. >> i know it's your job but you aren't going to get me in trouble again. so i'm going it leave it right there. let's just say the short list is getting shorter, but i've got to tell you that's very good folk that i would be proud to work with. >> herman cain, it's always good to see you. thank for being with us. we are in columbus, ohio where the debate over collective bargaining rights in the buckeye state rages on. governor john kasich is here with me to explain why ohio might depend on keeping this important legislation. that and more coming up next. ♪

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>> welcome back to "hannity." we are live from the beautiful state of ohio. on november 8th voters will head to the policy to decide if they want to uphold or overturn what is known as senate bill 5, legislation that would limit collective bargaining rights for state workers. it was passed by gop lawmakers, signed into law by gov. kasich

in april. but according to a poll, 57% of ohio voters now want senate bill 5 repealed compared to 32% who want to keep it. after a similar fight in wisconsin where union efforts fell short, will they now succeed here in the buckeye state, even if ohio can't survive without it? joining me now is the man himself, who is fighting hard to make sure that does not happen, ohio governor john kasich. good to see you. >> good to see you, sean. >> you told me you like being a host. >> i like being a host. ten years almost. >> that's true. it's good to see you again. you come into the state of ohio as a governor. you have a $8 billion budget deficit. you have a man date constitutionally to balance your budget, you've got all your economic plan through. where are you now and how does this play into your economic view? >> ohio over the last ten years lost more jobs than every state in america except for michigan and california. we were really in a bad

situation. we wiped out our budget deficit by reforming programs. for example, in medicaid, if mom and dad qualify for a nursing home, let them stay in their own home and get some help. we also cut taxes. we killed the death tax, lowered the income tax, and we are in a position of providing an incentive for small business. this issue was designed to give local governments the tools to control their costs because, sean, what i know is if costs at local levels are too high it makes an impediment to be able to get jobs. it's an issue of fairness. we want our government workers to pay 10% for their guaranteed pension and 15% for their guaranteed healthcare. that's reasonable. but if local governments keep raising taxes, what it does is it makes it more difficult to create jobs. how do i know this? since january we have created almost 12,000 jobs, new jobs, and we've saved about 25,000 jobs in this state. i mean, we were going like this. >> industry was leaving? >> yeah, now instead of leaving

they are coming. so we are creating jobs. the difficulty is if costs inside of the state, whether it's the state costs or the local costs, get too high, companies say i'm going somewhere else. and when they approach me, when companies say i want to expand or i want to come to ohio, they don't say to me, hey, can you raise my costs? they say what incentives can you give us to make this place more attractive? >> how does this initiative hurt your overall economic san francisco because, look, you are cutting spending, you are trying to balance your budget, and obviously benefits area big deal. >> state employees already pay this. >> they pay for healthcare in their pension? >> no. this is for local. for deposit employ owes at the local level who don't pay this. ones who get pension pickup and the taxpayers are paying in the only for their own stuff but for somebody who doesn't pay theirs. >> why is this important in your economic plan? you make this your issue but you didn't put it on the ballot. >> ohio from top to bottom has to be business friendly. fewer regulations, lower taxes.

when you look at the states that grow the fastest, like texas, they have very few regulations and like no taxes. so what we are trying to do is give local government the tools to cope with a tighter budget. we had to reduce some of the money we sent to local governments. the federal government even got rid of revenue sharing. so as we reduced that money we were giving to local government, we gave them the tools to cope with those reductions. >> okay. so people decide they aren't going to have local state -- local employees, government employees, pay for their pensions or contribute to the pension and healthcare. okay. so that means what for those local municipalities? >> in one community just south of columbus they just laid off 14 firefighters today because they don't have enough money to meet the budget. the other alternative is you raise taxes. up this cleveland we saved a company called american greetings, the greeting card company. the community of ohio rayed taxes and get what they did? they moved to west lake ohio where the condition were better.

it is so hard for small businesses to be successful, and when you raise their cost of doing business, they are going to go somewhere, and that's why ohio has been getting clobbered for ten years. sean, we've lost 6,700,000 jobs in ten years and 400,000 jobs over the last four years. now we are beginning to win. and i wanted to give the local governments these tools so that they could be successful in being a partner with us. if this goes down, and we don't know yet, elections are farther away, we will work with local governments to figure out how to control their costs because we can't bail them out. we don't have money to send to them. >> you are getting demonized. you are getting beaten up and you have millions of dollars of ads, they are busting in union people from around the country. i know because i met one of the bus drivers and unions are given free weekends in ohio for people who will protest you. >> good, i hope they spend money in the state. we can use that. if you are a teacher and you are the last one hired, you can be teacher of the year and be the

first one fired. can you imagine that? some person who california could come in and impose a wage settlement on our communities. and we say, well, wait a minute. the opposition says we can't trust the city council and the school board, they are management. i think we elect them to decide what our little communities can afford, what our schools can afford and our communities can afford. this is more comprehensive than wisconsin. it doesn't affect my budget. doesn't affect it ata. my budget is fine. not only do we have a slight surplus but we have money in a rainy day fund. but it's not just about those numbers. it is about creating an environment where you can get people to work. if a dad has to go home and tell the kids i lost my job today, it's devastating. and when a dad can go home and say, kids, i got a pay raise or i finally got a job, it helps the community, it helps the families, it helps these children. that's what it's all about. and in america that's what we

have to focus on. not the numbers, not the green eye shade, what is this number or that number. the issue is are we creating be a environment where people have have hope again where they can get jobs? because jobs solve so many problems. >> governor, great to see you. thanks for hosting us in the great state of ohio. >> it's pretty good. >> i wish you a lot of job creation here. >> thank you. >> coming up a fair and balanced debate over ohio issue two. state will you lawmakers from both sides of the isle. and that plus our great, great, great american panel. much more as we continue with this special edition of "hannity" from columbus, ohio. flush flush i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. i was worried it would be hard to install. but it's really easy. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this cool. yeah. you're not... filming this, are you?

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>> welcome back. we are live from columbus, ohio. referendum will decide in the law that limits collective bargaining rights for state workers stays or goes. now even gop presidential

hopefuls are now weighing in on this debate. former massachusetts governor and presidential candidate mit romney has taken heat from some conservatives for not coming out strongly enough in favor of the position. an issue the governor directly addressed while out on the campaign trail in virginia. here's what he said. >> i'm sorry if i created any confusion in that regard. i fully support governor kasich's effort to restrict collective bargaining in ohio. >> and here we are with analysis are ohio lawmakers from both sides of the isle. we are joined by republican state senator keith faber and joe is with us. good toe see you. >> thanks for having us. >> first ofa, this doesn't impact state workers as much as the local municipalities, right? this is about a 10% contribution to their pension, 15%

contribution to healthcare works i is pretty much the standard for people in the private sector, right? >> it's actually a much better deal than what people in the private sector get. in ohio the average is about 31% of payments for people in the private sector toward their healthcare. we doan have guaranteed lifetime pensions in the private sector like we do in governor. so the difference is vastly better than it is for the same private sector employees. >> you know, you her the governor, if this is voted down, this doesn't impact his budget. state employees already make their contributions. so municipalities, they around going to get money from the governor and the legislature to pay for this. what happens? will they have to lay off workers? what do they have to do. >> the problem with the about i will is it's overreaching and unfair. he talked about three little points, and you brought up three little points. that's like five pages out of a 300 page bill. the bill takes away for public employees to collectively bargain, so if, you know, we go

back to what we have currently, the same things will ten to happen. public employees are taking concessions and they have done that to the tune of $250 million in the last few years. >> what's wrong with the contribution aspect we just mentioned? do you have a problem with that. >> no, and if that was the bill, that would be the discussion but that's not the bill. >> it's about collective bargaining and the rights. here's the problem. states, local government, federal government, municipalities, they are going bankrupt. and the only way they are going to raise money is through taxes or firing and laying off people, right? >> i'm happy to hear joe say those three issues you will agree with. so you will come back and co-sponsor that bill with me, right? >> i would look at the legislation if that was the bill. >> you say that all the time. >> you just said you would support it if it was the bill, if it was those three issues. would you support him or not? >> we would, because most public employees already do that. >> as the ranks member on the committee, i'm the chairman and he's of the ranking member on.

he didn't offer a single amendment after 20 hours of hearings. but coming back to the issue one of the things joe mentioned isn't true. it doesn't eliminate collective bargaining forgot workers. it specifically in the statue preserves collective bargaining for wages, hours, and terms of condition. >> not for benefits. >> it does for benefits, too, it just as you can't negotiate for less than paying 15% toward healthcare and not paying your 10% employee share. >> that's the same most people in the private sector deal with. same with me, and every job i've pretty much had. considering the state that government is in now, why not have that provision that says, all right, everybody has to pay it and you can't go below that rate of contribution? >> because again, that's just a small piece. >> tell me what you oppose. >> six out of twenty three republicans voted no on the bill. >> i'm not asking about that. if that is the issue, why not just say you would support that and then maybe make it, you know, come up with a different

bill some. >> you can't do that right now. it's either yes on the whole thing or no on the whole thing. >> that's the referendum but would you support the legislation we are talking about here? would you support the providing that is say you can't change that contribution part. >> the 15%, 10%? >> you would support it. would you support it? >> yes. i would look and talk to the people that it affects. >> you look very happy. >> i'm ecstatic. >> most already pay it, that's the whole thing. >> but they won't be able to negotiate that down in the future? you support that. >> for the healthcare. >> and what about pension. >> for the pension pickup, that's a different situation because a lot of employers use that -- use that so they don't have to give salaries. >> those are very important parts but there are other parts too. forks we have excessive time off provisions in local communities. there's one fire department that gets three one-third times off every year. there is another provision call the cash payout upon retirement that costs the city of

cincinnati $93 million last year. you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars in retirement payout to retirement government services for their time. those are other things we can work on. i hope issue two is upheld at the polls, but if not, joe, i will hold you to those. >> you admit that's not the bill. >> no, that's the core of the bill. >> we will let the debate continue. good to see you. coming up, michelle is here to give us her take on the situation in ohio. how unions are attempting to strong arm their way to victories in the upcoming electionings. all that and the great, great american panel coming up as we continue from ohio. endless shrimp is ourn

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>> welcome back to "hannity." the ballot measure in ohio that aims to restrict collective bargaining rights for public workers isn't the first struggle between unions and state governments this year. that begs the question is this just the beginning of things to

come. joining me now to explain all of it, the author of the new york times , author of "culture of corruption," michelle malkin. thanks for coming back. >> thanks for having me back. >> governor kasich takes over a $8 billion budget deficit. they have a man date to balance the budget in the state. he's asking that all state employees contribute to their pensions, contribute to the medical insurance, just like most people in the private sector do. unions, i talked to somebody, they are being busted in some ways here, in some cases. it seems like it's an effective strategy. they throw millions and millions of dollars and they get what they want. why does the public not see the need to balance the budget first? >> well, i think the fact that john kasich was elected and that his man date for change, to

borrow a phrase, was supported by a majority of voters there. and the fact that you have fiscally responsible adults in the ohio republican party who were trying to do something to save ohio's future for the next generations there, tells you that what is really happening here is that you have astroturfing, dc-based national big labor organizations that are fighting for their self-preservation. and because they have a bottom less well of funding, thanks to the forced deuce racket that has gone unchallenged for so long in this country, they don't care. they are going to throw everything at the wall, three all of this money down a sinkhole, and they know that sometimes it will work. of course, the intimidation and the thug tactics that we saw in wisconsin were just a warmup. but i think a lot of these unions, particular the service employees international union,

afl-cio, which has poured $1 million into this astroturf front group we are ohio, slash, we are one there this ohio are putting all are of their rank and file on the ground there. they are squeezing deuce out of a lot of members who disagree, not only with their tactics, but with their ideology. you interviewed a member of the ohio education association, a teacher named jay thompson, earlier this year who blew the whistle on how her union, the oea, the ohio education union, was using her own deuce to campaign against her husband, who happened to be a republican state legislation candidate who agreed with the need for this kind of reform. they are we'lling brass knuckles. i posted a picture yesterday on my website of yes on issue two sign that had been torn down. and usually, yeah, there's some measure of that that goes on in

politics, but there is an actual level of danger and recklessness because we know that these unions have been prone to violence not just in the far past but in the recent past. >> here's what i don't understand. i don't understand why rank and file aren't more angry their hard earned money, their deuce literally go to an john's the money is often spent, you know, on politicians, on campaigns, on parties that they don't support. you know, why isn't therer toward leadership? why isn't there more anger in washington, they miss appropriate our funds, solyndra, anded finish hand car company. why not occupy 1600 pennsylvania avenue and say stop miss misappropriating money this way. >> or occupy the national education association, which in 2009-2010 collected $13 million

in deuce and squanders it on every left wing cause from all of these progressive groups to media matters to the naacp and jess jackson's group when we know there's pretty much an even political split among teachers union ranks just like there is in the rest of the country. so why is all of this money lopsidedly going to far left and democrat cause necessary well, it's because you have all of these union fat cats who sit in these dc palaces collecting huge intention benefits. you want to talk about class warfare, how about aiming a little demogogery who are sitting pretty while there are all of these teacher layoffs going on across the country and all of them hurt in the school districts because of bad decisions, bad hiring rules, rules that protect the incompetence and the people when can't do their job in the classroom, and to explain why they tolerate it so much?

it's fear. and we know how difficult it is for any rank and file union member to challenge this forced deuce racket. it takes an incredible amount of courage, moxie, a lot of legal fees that rank and file teachers simply do not have. and there really needs to be an internal revolt among rank and file teachers to overthrow these regimes that are causing their demise. i mean it's because of these bad decisions that all of these school districts are as bad a shape as they are in. it's not john kasich's fault, it's not scott walker's fall. look in the mirror or. that's what these big labor organizations have to do. >> michelle malkin, as always, thank you for being with us. appreciate your investigative work. >> you bet. >> and let not your heart be troubled. our great, great, great american panel from columbus, ohio coming up next. the employee of the month isss... the new spark card from capital one.

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>> tonight on our great, great american panel you can catch her as one of the co-hosts of the fox news contributor, jennifer crowley, and she's worked with chuck should beer, chris is back with us and he's a senior editor for the spectator, john fund is with us. and herman cain is come under

fire, attacking foreign policy, and while he was sick with cancer he didn't pay tacks which i think is absurd and they are looking for any nitty-gritty. rick perry comes out with the flat tax plan. do you see the field settling in or do you think it's still changing. >> i think it's very fluid and changing, sean. you look back over the last couple election psyche speaking you see this kind of dynamic where you've got a frontrunner and then the frontrunner sub sides and somebody else replaces him. look, not a single republican voter has voted in any primary yet so there's still a lot of shaking out to do. herman cain, welcome to frontrunner status. fox news had a poll this afternoon that showed him number one. he's now beating romney nationwide. lou being at some of the state by state policy, including ohio where you are sitting. herman cain is now leading the pack. so look, this is trial by fire. they have got to be able to take the incoming from members of their own party because they are never going to be able to take

it from obama and axelrod next year if they can't take it from their own right now. >> i agree with you on everything you have said but i don't think herman cain wants to be president. think taken with his campaign manager, they are trying to make money while running for president. this is basically a book tour. i don't think he really wants it. >> chris, chris. chris, every presidential candidate has put out a book about our positions. it isn't unique to herman cain. >> you say this, but he's leading in the fox news poll out today. he's beating obama in the rasmussen poll, and cbc- new yok times poll, he's leading in that poll. >> that is not a serious running. >> excuse me, we are talking about that ad. that means it is brilliant. that ad has gotten more coverage than anything else in politics today and the reason was it was different, quirky, but it didn't cross the line. here's the thing, herman cain

doesn't have the money mit romney or rick perry has. he has to use gorilla tactics. i agree with monica, the new york times poll just out. over half of the republican primary voters have not settled on a firm choice. this race is very fluid. let me ask you this can rick perry come back with his flat tax plan. >> look, a fox news poll cam out today. 3 to 1, they prefer a flat tax to fair tax that herman cain wants to go to. this is falling and rising all the time. >> romney might be the only competitive one on the stage but as much as i hate to say it, i think there's room for newt gingrich to get back into this race wishes is kind of strange coming from me. i don't see rick perry returning. i think he's made too many fatal mistakes and i think he's out. >> there are a lot of details in the plans, but the bottom line is the reason that all of these plans are regular naturing with

republican voters and i think voters at large, we are dying not just to talk about as you starety measures and cutting spending, which is absolutely necessary, but we need a pro growth conversation in the country and that's what the tax plans are all about. >> four years ago this week the frontrunner of the republican nomination bat rudy giuliani and the democrats was hillary clinton. >> that's right. mccain wasn't leading until december 31st. >> and who does obama, really quickly in the short time we have left, we will start with john and then monica. who does obama fear the most? >> anyone who can bring his economic record to the american people who point out how hope and changes turned into fear and both. >> romney. >> anyone can beat obama. >> romney. >> i think that's probably right. i think mit romney because he has crossover appeal to independents. but don't discount any conservatives, herman