stops right here.an we are definitely lookin out for you. out for you. and welcome to the special edition of hannity. we're from the capitol building in columbus, ohio, and in just a moment i will be joined by republican presentation candidate herman cain. can tonight you'll hear from ohio governor and many more. first, there's new evidence that herman cain has indeed taken over the status of frontrunner for the republican nomination.fo now, according to a fox newsno poll released just a short time ago, herman cain now leads mitt romney by 4 points, newt poi gingrich tops out the top three followed by rick perry and ron paul. cain received only 6% of the vote when the survey was taken back in august.

meanwhile right here in ohio, things are no different for cain. a poll reelsz released today han top with 28% of the vote, leading romney by 5 points, ron piewl ipaul in third. what's more interesting in a race between cain, romney, and perry in ohio. cain defeats ro romney by 7 pois and perry by 30. joining me to talk about his i rise to the top is businessman and republican presidential candidate, the one and only herman cain. those numbers have to make you feel pretty good. >> they make us feel pretty good, sean, but it means we have to continue to work hard. we're very pleased with that, but we're not letting up.t we we're sticking to our strategy. >> what do you think is the reason for this incredible rise that you've had and not only that, the question i think a lot of us had early on is okay, pawlenty was down and out,mi bachmann had a surge, perry had a surge. a you seem to be maintaining it.

what's the reason that you thinu you're able to maintain the surge? >> i think that the florida straw poll that took place about three weeks ago really set the message. number one, the voice of the people is more powerful than thh voice of the media, with all dul respect. the second thing that came out t of that, sean, is that message is more powerful than money. right from the beginning andnn you've seen it in the debates. i have talked about solutions to problems, developed these solutions, and shared them with the public, and they are connected with the public. you know that my economic growth and jobs plans has become very popular with the public, my 999 plan, but i've put other ideas on the table. i believe that's what'sap happening based upon what people are telling me is the fact that i have a direct, clear message e about how i would address theser crisis we face is residue naighe

with the american people.in i think that's driven it a lot.o >> whatt. do you make of the lat debate? i think the full first half houa of that debate was spent on your fellow candidates criticizing you, criticizing the 999 plan, asking you some pretty tough questions about it. you know, i guess you probably p liked it because you got a lot of air time.ut did you feel that you explained it to the stent that you want tn explain this plan to the american people and convince them a, you can pass it, and b, this is revenue neutral and even c, that this is the right planhi for america? >> l i knew that the bull's eye on my back was big but not thatd big until the last debate. i did not feel as if i was able to explain the attacksain adequately because as you know, you only get 30 seconds tou on respond, but the good news is ic continued to deflect it by saying you haven't read the plan. you haven't read the analysis. the good news is one of the most

respected economists on the planet wrote a very nice articly that appeared in the "wall street journal" basically confirming everything that i wac trying to say, so during the debate i didn't adequately dot it, but i've since then been able to explain it to a lot ofp, people and answer a a lot of questions. a lot of people realize most ofs those attacks, sean, had no basis whatsoever. >> do you worry by opening up a sales tax without eliminating the income tax, for example, ixa know years ago you were a prettp strong supporter of the flat tax which would be a consumption a tax, but a tax that would alsox eliminate the irs and get readyr of the income tax, so -- get rid of the income tax, so do you worry that there's so many different venues wherees politicians in the future can go 999, 10, 10, 10, 15, 15, 15, and now they just have a whole new area of taxation as future congresses and administrations

would come into play? >> well, the answer is no, i don't worry and here's why. number one, introducing a sales tax, let me clarify one of the other false attacks from the debate. it is not a back tax. even governor perry is referring it -- it as a back tax. it's not a back tax. it's a single rate tax at the retail register. the other reason that i don'tin worry is because, first of all, it's visible. the american public, they're going to be the ones to holdible congress's feet to the fire and not run away with raising 999 to some other outrageous number. the other thing is introducing a national sales tax, we throw out 82,000 ways for us to be taxed with the 82,000 page tax code. you and i both know that thean current tax code is filled with sneak ataxes and we many times don't know how we've been taxed. i'm not worried about that.

the other reason i'm not worried about that is because the the american people, they get it. they are chanting 999 which, th means that if burea bureaucratsf politicians want to try to raise it without a very compelling a reason, i believe that theon american public is going to holo their feet to the fire. i'm not worried about it. >> all right.>> now, you came out recently with an ad that we call it the smoking ad, and it's gotten a lot of play. >> yeah. >> all over the media. we played it last night on this program, and frankly, i can'toga figure out the ad, so i want to run it and then hopefully you can explain to me what this ads is about.is pretty funny ad, but i want to t give you a chance to respond. >> i really believe that herman> cain will put united back in the united states of america. if i didn't believe that, i wouldn't be here. we would run a campaign like nobody's ever seen, but thens america's never seen a candidath like herman cain.en we need you to get involved

because together we can do this. we can take this country back.oe ♪ >> all right. that smile at the end, alle right. explain that ad to us. >> all right.te we have a saying in my campaign, sean. let herman be herman. this is the attitude that i have when i do debates. this is the at tiewt i have when i do interviews.te let herman be herman. mark block is my chief of staffh and we also say let mark be mark. mark happens to be a smoker. he knows it's a bad habit, butat he smokes, and so we weren't trying to send any subliminal message what is over. many of us found it hilarious because we know mark block, so there was no hidden messagek

there other than we were in vegas and we wanted to put something new out on the internet because i was inundated with other requests and i trusted mark block which i still do, and i thought he did a grea job with the ad. a the person who did the ad for us added that little scene at the end, quite frankly, that as you say, has caused all the stir, but that was no hidden message there other than mark block saying america has never seen another candidate like hermanne cain. right. herman, they're attacking you on paying your taxes, on the issuen of abortion and foreign policy. when we come back, we'll continue with herman cain righth after this break as this special edition of hannity continuessp tonight from columbus, ohio, and then later on, the governor is, going to join me live to talk about his showdown with bigll labor right here in the buckeye state. all of that and much more straight ahead on this edition of hannity. ♪

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and welcome back to the special edition of hannity. we're live and we're in columbus, ohio. we continue now with republican presidential candidate, the one and only herman cain. all right. you had stage 4 cancer. i believe the year was back insg 2006. you had extensive treatment fort this, and i thought this was a t pretty cheap shot that during dr the time you were getting your cancer treatment, you might have missed a state tax payment which, by the way, you fixed thd next year. now, i guess when you rise to

the top, you have that bull's eye on your back, and this has now come up as an issue. what do you say to people whoo o are criticizing you for that?it >> well, people, you're absolutely right, sean. in 2006 i was trying to stay alive. i only had a 30% chance of survival. i've beenbes is totally cancer-free for five years, and yes, we may have hav missed the filing of one of the states, and they filed lien, but we took care of it. what i have to say to people who have to dig that deep in order to find something negative to say about herman cain is simplyd says that my message is resonating, that the people are connecting with me and mymy message and this campaign.ag if they gotta dig that deep to. try to come up with somethinga negative, sean, then we don't have anything to be worry about' as you know, to be perfectly honest, it's only going to get c worse because of those pollumbe numbers that you referred toer earlier. it's only going to get worse. i'm going to warn listeners and viewers now.ow

watch out. it's going to get worse, and the thing that we concluded and you know this, some stuff they're just going to make up because they're trying to distract us from our message. they're going to distract us s from our strategy.. we're not going to be distracted. we'll continue on the campaigne the way we've laid it out i because it's working. the american people are connecting. >> sean: you know, in thehe las' debate it's gotten so insane no that they actually, you know, were saying that rick perry made a big mistake because he calledb you brother in that debate, and you know, i spoke with you about it. the first thing you did is whatn you're doing now. you laughed. what's your reaction to that? >> my reaction is, you know, for them to try and figure out was there some hidden meaning. i had a reporter ask me were yor offended? no. rick perry is aat christian

brother and he's someone ime respect. i'm not offended if somebody calls me brother. this is how some desperateepo reporters, not all, this is hows desperate some reporters are to try to come up with that breakthrough story or that breakthrough headline. well, let me tell you a littleoh secret. you're for the going to findr that breakthrough story trying to find something that's goinget to offend herveg.hr it takes a lot more than that to offend me or get me upset. o >> sean: let me go to the issuei of abortion. you gave two interviews in two days, and there's been a lost questions raised, and we had congresswoman michelle bachmann on last night, and she said your position on abortion is o inconsistent, and i want to givn you a chance tonight to clarify it. here are the two instances we're talking about. >> if one of your female children, grandchildren wasnd raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as he? own? >> you're mixing two things.

>> why? y >> you're mixing two things. >> that's what it comes down to. >> it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybodyer else's role to make that decision. ito ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make, not me as- president. >> i guess the question is do you believe that abortion shouln be legal in this country for for families who want to make that decision? >> no.de no. i do not believe abortion should be legal in this country ifco that's the question. >> sean: i want to give you ay. chance to clarify. does that mean in the case of rape, in70, etc., a mother's life do you make any exceptions? >> let me go back to this, sea. i am and have always been pro life from conception. that piece was totally taken out of context. it's interesting that they didn't go back to the other 100i interviews on tape somewhere that says that i am consistentlt

pro life from conception. it was taken out of context, ana because in that piece right there, they didn't show the first part, i used the word choice talking about a specific situation that he was trying to pidgeon me hole on.ry that's what he used to try and come after me.if i am pro life from conception,o, end of story. >> sean: all right. let me ask you.ow now that your economic plan has been resonating, it seems, and i've been reading that the othet candidates in this race now think that there might be a weakness in terms of your foreign policy experience.nce. you worked for pillsbury, coke, burger king, godfather's pizza.r you've done a lost economicturn turnaround. on the economy your plan is resonating. you said iny one interview you weren't sure what the right of return was.do do do you feel you have the

experience in foreign policyat h considering that's not been your professional area of expertise. what do you say to those critics? >> to those critics, i would say to them do you think i'm dumb enough not to study up on thesek issues? i've been studying up on these s issues for months. i can now explain right of return to any reporter better than they understand right of return because, you know, yough get caught off guard. y you go to school and you learn.c i challenge them to try to explain that to me.to secondly, i have been consulting with former ambassadors, former national security advisors, i've consulted with a number of experts to get up to speed on some of the situations we have around the world, so i haven't been just sitting still, and i challenge anybody to say that i wouldn't know how to approach foreign policy because unlike some of the other people, i at least have a foreign policy philosophy which is an extension of the reagan philosophy. peace through strength and myste

philosophy is peace throughil strength and clarity. i believe that we need to clarify who our friends are.nd we need to clarify who our enemies are so we can stopp giving money to our enemies and we can tell the world who ourl friends are that we are going to stand with like the country of israel.ael. all of the details for each individual situation, we've goty plenty of experts.wh what a leader must do is be able to state some fundamental principles and fawnd mentalental philosophy, listen to the inpute and make judgements.judgme i haven't been just sittingttin still and not going to school hv since they've been trying to paint me as not having foreign policy experience. >> sean: all right. youhyou thought of who might want to choose as your vice-president should you win the nomination? >> well, yes. let's say that i have had a few thoughts about that, wit but its still too early to mention any names, sean, but i have -- let's just say the short list is getting shorter.

>> sean: okay. you don't want to share like twu or three or four with us? [ laughter ] >> no, sean. i know it's your job, but you'ro not going to get me in troubleou again, so i'm going to leave it right there. let's just say the short list is getting shorter, but i've gotta tell you. there's some very good folks that i would be proud to workk with. >> sean: herman cain, it's always good to see you. coming up, more of thek special edition of hannity. we're in columbus, ohio where the debate over collective bargaining rights rages on.ch i the governor is with me to explain why the future of ohioxp may dmend o dmend exend o depens important legislation. ♪

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>> sean: and welcome back to hannity. we're coming to you live tonight from the capitol building in beautiful columbus, ohio where the big issue on the ballot is a referendum known as issue 2.hio. on november the 8th voters head to the polls to decide ifth they want to uphold or overturn what's known as senate bill 5, legislation that would limitth collective bargaining rights for state workers. it was passed by g.o.p. lawmakers, signed into law by governor kasich in april, butkai

according to a recent poll, 57% of ohio voters now want senate bill 5 repealed compared to 32% who want to keep it.ho now, after a similar fight inigt wisconsin where union efforts un fell short, will they now succeed here in the buckeyeey state even if ohio can survive without it? joining me now is the man himself who is fighting hard tog make sure that does not happen, ohio governor john kasich.n good to see you. >> good to see you. >> you said you preferred being a host. >> i like being a host. almost ten years, huh? >> that's true. good to see you again. tha >> sean: you come into the state of ohio as governor. you've got an $8 billion budgetr deficit. you have a mandate constitutionally to balance your budget. you got all your economic plan through. where are you now and how does this play into your economics? >> well, we not only -- look. ohio over the last ten years lost more job than every state in america except for michigan and california. we were really in a badat

situation. we wiped out our budget deficit by reforming programs. for example, inin medicaid if mm and dad qualify for a nursingg home, let them stai stay in then home and get some help. we cut taxes. we killed the death tax, lowered the income tax, and we're in a poftion providing an incentivein for small business.th this issue was designed to giveg local governments the tools to control their costs because sean, what i know is if costs at local levels are too high, itve makes an impediment to being able to get jobs. it's an issue of fairness, too. we want our government workersnt to pay 10% for their guaranteed pension and 15% for their health care. that's very reasonable. in addition to that, if local governments keep raising taxes, then what it does it makes it more difficult to create jobs. how do i know this?si since january we've created almost 12,000 new jobs and we'vn saved about 25,000 jobs in the state. i mean, we were going like this. >> industry was leaving. >> yeah. instead of them leaving, they're

coming, okay, so we're creatingc jobs. the difficulty is if costsosts inside of a state, whether it'se the state costs or the local costs get too high, companies say i'm going somewhere else.g when they approach me, when m companies say i want to expandt or i want to come to ohio, they don't say to me hey, can you raise my costs? they say to us what incentives u can you give us to make this place more attractive. >> how does this thei initiativt your overall economic plan.be you're cutting spending, trying to balance your budget.ge obviously benefits are a big deal.lo now, state employees pay for health care and pensions. this is for local. >> this is for local and government employees at the local level who don't pay this, you know.l the ones who get pension pickup and the taxpayers are paying not only for their own stuff but for somebody that doesn't pay theirs. >> sean: why is it important to your economic plan? you didn't even put it on the ballot. bottom >> ohio from top to bottom has to be business friendly, fewer

regulations, lower taxes. when you look at states that grow the fastest like texas,e they have very few regulations and no taxes. we're trying to give local cop governments the tools to copeter with a tighter budget. we had to reduce some of the money we sent to local governments. the federal government got rid of revenue sharing.we as we reduced the money we were giving to local governments, wem gave them the tools to cope witc those reductions. th >> sean: so people decide they're not going to have local employees, government employees pay for their pensions or contribute to the pensions and health care.th okay. so that means what for thosehose local municipalities? >> in one community here just south of columbus they just laid off 14 firefighters today bec because they don't have enough money to meet the budget.r the other alternative is youyo raise taxes. up in cleveland we saved aand company called american greetings, the greeting card t company. the community of brooklyn, ohio raised the taxes.ayed guess what american greetings did? they moved.they they moved to m westlake, ohio where the conditions are bettere

it's so hard for small businesses to be successful, an, when you raise their cost of doing business, they're going tn go somewhere. that's why ohio has been getting clobbered for ten years. sean, we've lost 600,000 jobs in ten years and 400,000 jobs overa the last four years. yea now we're beginning to win, and i wanted to give the local loc governments these tools so they could be successful in being ag partner with us. look. if this thing goes down, wee don't know, the election is farw away, we'll work with local t governments because we can'tbeca bail them out. o we don't have money to send to them. >> sean: you're getting demonized and beaten up. you've got millions in ads.y ar they're bussing in union people from around the country, i knows because i met one of the bus drivers, and unions are giving u free weekends in ohio to people that will come and protest you. >> good.ll p i hope they spend money in thenm state. we could use that.we sean, one of the provisions in u the bill is if you're the teacher and you're the last one hired, you could be teacher of

the year and under our system, you're the first one fired. let me give you t another one.co some person from californiad could come in and impose a wage settlement on our communities, and we say well, wait a minute. the opposition says we can't can trust the city council and thege school board. we're management.lect we electric them to decide whate our little communities can afford, what our schools and oun cities can afford. this is a comprehensive bill, more comprehensive than wisconsin, and also a little different situation. >> sean: won't it impact the a budget? >> doesn't it affect it at all.' my budget is fine.s we're not only -- we have a splieslight surplus and money ie rainy day fund. it's not just about the numberst it's about creating an w environment where you can get people to work. if a t dad has to go home and tl the kids i lost my job today, it's devastating. when a dad can go home and say kids, i got a pay raise or i finally got joob, it helps the communities and the families ans these children. that's what it's all about. ab in america that's what we have

to focus on, not the numbers, nopt the green eye shade, you know, what is this number or that number. the issue is are we creating an environment where people can have hope again and where they can get jobs because jobs solve so many problems. >> sean: governor, great to see you. thanks for hosting us in then great state of ohio.. congratulations on all your>> i success. wish you a lot of job creationup here. coming up next, fair and balanced debate as state lawmakers from both sides of the aisle. that plus michelle malkin and our great, great, great american panel. that and much more as we continue with the special edition of hannity live from columbus, ohio. we are now printing on the back sides of used paper and we switched to fedex cause a lot of their packaging contains recycled materials. tell them what else fedex does. well we're now using more electric trucks and lower emission planes. we even offer a reusable envelope. now, can't we at least print on the back sides of used paper? what's the executive compensation list...?

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>> sean: welcome back to the special edition of hannity. we're live from columbus, ohio where issue 2 is the question on answer's mind.we now, the referendum will decide if the law which limits collective bargaining rights foo state workers stays or goes. even g.o.p. presidential

hopefuls are weighing in on the debate.is former massachusetts governor and presidential candidate mittp romney has taken heat from someo conservatives for not coming out strongly enough in favor of the provision, an issue that the governor directly addressedan today while out on the campaign trail in virginia.in here's what he said. >> w i'm sorry if i created confusion in that regard.rd i fully support governor kasich's, i think it's called question 2 in ohio. i fully support that. actually, on my website i think back as early as april i laid out that i support question 2, and governor kasich's effort to restrict collective bargainingic in ohio. o >> and here now with analysis are ohio lawmakers from both sides of the aisle.side we're joined by republican staty senator keith faber and democratic state senator joe sis hiv oney is with us.lo it doesn't impact state workers as much as local municipalities. this is a 10% contribution of

their pension, 15% contributiona to health care which is pretty much the standard for people ini the private sector, right? >> it's actually a much better deal than what people in the private sector get. in ohio the average is about 31% of payments for people in the private sector towards their health care. we don't have guaranteed lifetime pensions in the private sector like we do in government. so the benefit structure in the public sector for governmentis employees is vastly better than it is for the same private. sector employees. >> you know, you heard the governor. if this is t voted down, this doesn't impact his budget. state employees already makeeady their contributions, so municipalities, they're not going to get money fro, m thet o governor and the legislature to pay for this. what happens if they have to lay off workers? >> the problem is with the billd is that it's overreaching and it's unfair. he talked about three little points and you brought up threeu little points. that's like five pages out of a 300-page bill. pa the bill takes away the abilityo for public employees to collectively bargain. if, you know, we go back to what

we have currently, the samey, things will continue to happen. public employees are takinge concessions and they've done that to the tune of $250 million in the last few years. >> sean: what's wrong with the contribution aspects we justwi mentioned? do do you have a problem with that? >> .lddi that's not thesc bill. it's about collective bargaining and the rights.ni ultimately here's the problem. state, local government, federal government, municipalities,nt, they're going bankrupt.ng we don't have -- the only way tg raise money is through taxes org firing or laying off people, right? >> i'm happy to hear joe say those three issues you'll agreea with so you'll co-sponsor that bill with me, right? l >> i will look at the lidgel lation. >> you say that all the time. >> y you said you would support it. if the bill was those three issues, would you support it or not? >> most public employees alreade do that. as the ranking member on the committee, i'm the vice chairman, he's he the ranking minority member, hopefully the bill we can work together on.e joe didn't offer a single

amendment after 20 hours of d hearings, but again, coming back to the issue, one of the things joe mentions, just not true. this bill doesn't eliminate collective bargaining foro government workers. it specifically in the statute preserves collective bargaining for wages, hours, and terms and conditions. and for safety forces, not for>> benefits. no, it does for benefits. it saysts you can't negotiate f paying less than 5 15% toward yr health care. >> that being the case, that's a the same as most people in the private sector deal with. same with me, every job i pretty much had.co >> sean: considering the state the government is in now, why not have that provision that says all right, everybody's rig gotta pay it, you can't go below that rate of contribution? >> because again, that's just a small piece. t >> sean: tell me what you oppose. >> 6 out of 23 republicans votd no on the bill.>> i >> sean: i'm not asking about that. if that's theha issue, why not just say you would support that and then maybe make, you know, come up with a different bill?

>> you can't do that right now. it's either yes on the whole thing or no on the whole thing.n >> sean: that's the referendum. would you support the legislation we're talking about here? would you support the provisions that say you can't change that contribution? >> the 15%, 10%? >> sean: would you support it? >> yes. i would look and talk to the people that it affects. >> you look very happy. >> i'm ecstatic. >> most already pay it. that's the whole thing. >> sean: they won't be able to negotiate that down in the future. you support that? >> forpp the health care.ut >> sean: what about pension? >> for the pension pickup, that's a different situation because a lot of employers use that so they don't have to giveo salaries. >> those areal very importantpot parts, but there are other parts, too. for example, we have excessive time off provisions in local communities. there's a fire department outside of columbus that gets d three and a third months off paid time every single year. there's another provision called the cash payout. upon retirement it costs the city of cincinnati $93 million

last year. you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars in retirement payouts.reti those are other things hopefully we can work on.e i hope issue 2 is upheld at the polls. if it's not, joe, i'm going to hold you to those commitments. >> you agree that's not the bill, though. >> that's the core of the bill. >> all right.f we'll let the debate continue. guys, good to see you. coming up, michelle malkin is here to give us her take on the situation in ohio, how unions are attempting to strongarm their way to victory in the elections. our great, great, great american panel as hannity from columbus,g ohio continues straight ahead. . sometimes life can be well, a little uncomfortable. but when it's hard or hurts to go to the bathroom, there's dulcolax stool softener. dulcolax stool softener doesn't make you go, it just makes it easier to go. dulcolax stool softener. make yourself comfortable. at red lobster. there's so many choices. the guests love it. [ male announcer ] it's endless hrimp today at red lobster.

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call now to try lifelock risk free for 2 full months. that's right, 60 days risk free. use promo code: norisk. if you're not completely satisfied, notify lifelock and you won't pay a cent. order now and also get this document shredder to keep your personal documents out of the wrong hands. a $29 value, free! get the protection you need right now. call or go to lifelock.com to try lifelock risk free for a full 60 days. use promo code: norisk. plus get this document shredder, free! but only if you act right now. call now! lifelock service guarantee cannot be offered to residents of new york. >> sean: and welcome back to hannity. the ballot measure inhi ohio that aims to restrict r collective bargaining rights fos public worker workers isn't thet struggle between unions and state governments this year. un that begs the question. is this just the beginning of things to come.

joining me to explain all of this is the author of the "new york times" best seller culture of corruption, michelle malkin. welcome back. >> thanks for having me back, sean. >> sean: we saw this in wisconsin. we see it here in ohio, and here we have governor kasich. he takes over, an $8 billion budget deficit. they have mandate to balance the budget in the state. he's asking that all statel employees contribute to their pensions, contribute to theirriu medical insurance, just like most people in the private sector do. unions, i talked to somebody. they're being busted in some ways here, in some cases.it s it seems like it's an effective strategy. they've trimmed millions of $ane they get what they want. why does the public not see the need to balance the budget first? >> i think the fact that johnhn kasich was elected and that hiss mandate for change to borrow a

phrase was supported by the majority of voters there, and v the fact that you have fiscally responsible adults in ohio r republican party who are trying to do something to save ohio's future for the next generations there tells you that what's really happening here is that you have astro turfing dc basedc national big labor organizations that are fighting for their self-preservation. because they have a bottomless well of funding, thanks to the forced dues racket gonencha unchallenged for so long in this country, they don't care. c they're going to throw everything at the wall, throwth all of the money down a sink, hole, and they know that sometimes it will work.me of course, the intimidation and the thug tactics that we saw in wisconsin were just a warmupus burks i think a lot of these unions, particularly the service employees international union,pl afl-cio which poured a million

dollars into this astro turf front group, we are ohio/we are one, they are in ohio, they'rere putting all of theirpu rank-and-file on the ground ra there, squeezing dues out of a lot of members who disagree, not only with their tactics but with their ideology. you interviewed a member of thee ohio education association, a teacher named jay thompson earlier this year who blew theh whistle on how her union, the oea, the ohio education association, was using her own dues to campaign against her husband who happened to be a republican state legislative candidate who agreed with the need for this kind of reform. they're wielding brass knuckles. i posted a picture yesterday ond my website of yes on issue 2ss sign that had been torn down, and usually yeah, there's somers measure of that that goes on inn politics, but there's an actuall

level of danger and recklessness because we know that these h unions have been prone to violence not just in the past nt but in the recent past. >> sean: i don't understand why rank-and-file aren't more angrye that their hard-earned money, their dues literally go toey unions and then that money isth often spent, you know, on politicians, on campaigns, on parties that they don't support, you know. why isn't there more anger towards union leadership? why isn't there more anger in the case of washington? they misappropriate our funds, solyndra, sun power, the finland electric car company. i don't understand. occupy wall street.om why not occupy 1600 pennsylvanic avenue and say hey, stop misappropriating money this way. >> or occupy seiu or the national education association which in 2009-2010 collected $13

million in dues and scwa scwawnd it on media matters to the naacp and jesse jackson's group.e we know there's an even political split among teachers union ranks just like there is in the rest of the country, so why is all of this money lopsidedly going to far left and democrat causes? well, it's because you've gotec all of these union fat cats who sit in these dc palaces collecting huge pensions and benefits. i mean, you want to talk aboutut class warfare? how about aiming a little demagogery at these big labor fat cats sitting pretty whilegey all of these teacher layoffs got on all across the country, all of the hurt in school districtse because of bad decisions, bad hiring rules, rules that protect the inexe tents and the people who can't do their job? 234 the classroom, and to explain why they tolerate it soo much? it's fear, and we know how h

difficult it is for any rank-and-file union member to challenge this forced dues r racket. it takes anit incredible amountf courage, moxie, a lot of legal fees that rank-and-file teachers simply do not have.d there needs to be an internal revolt among rank-and-file teachers to overthrow theserthr regimes that are causing their demise. i mean, it's because of these i' bad decisions that all these school districts are in as bad a shape as they're in. it's not john kasich's fault or scott walker's fault. look in the mirror. that's what these big labor organizations have to do.chel >> sean: michelle malkin, as always, thanks for being witheca us.ve appreciate your investigative work. >> you bet. >> sean: let not your heart bean troubled. our great,ne great, great amerin panel from columbus, ohio coming up next.

guys, we had herman cain on earlier in the program tonight. herman is coming under more fire and attacking foreign policy, he

was sick with cancer. he didn't pay taxes. he was a year late which i think is absurd, and they're looking for any little nitty gritty. rick perry now comes out with his flat tax plan. do you see the field settlingax in with these polls or do you see things changing? >> i think it's still very>> dynamic. it's very fluid,, sean. look back over the election cycles and you see the dynamic where you've got a frontrunner, and then the frontrunner subsides and somebody elsehi replaces him.gl not a single republican voter has voted in any primary yet. there's a lot of shaking out ton do. herman cain, welcome to frontrunner status. fox news had a poll this thi afternoon that showed him number one beating romney nationwide. look at the state by state pollh including ohio where you're sitting. herman cain is now leading the pack. this is trial t by fire. they've got to be able to take the incoming from members of their own party because they're never going to be able to take t

it from obama and axelrod. >> i don't think herman cainev wants to be president. i think taken with his campaigna manager, they're trying to makeo money while running for president. this is basically a book tour. i don't think he really wants to be president. >> chris, chris, chris. every presidential candidate has put out a book about their a positions. herman's not unique. every presidential candidate does this. >> true.ou >> sean: you say this, but he's leading in the fox news poll out today. he's beating obama in thehe rasmussen poll, and cbs "new york times" poll that came out earlier this week, he's leading in iin that poll. >> excuse me., we're talking about that ad. that means it was brilliant. that ad has gotten more coveraga than anything else in politics today, and the reason is, it was different, it was quirky, but it didn't cross the line. b here's the thing. herman cain doesn't have the

money that mitt romney or rick perry has he. has to use guerilla tactics. over half the republican primarr voters have not yet settled on a firm choice. this race is very wide open. >> let me ask you this. can rick perry come back withrr the flat tax plan? >> no. >> the fox news poll came out. by 3 to 1, republican primary voters prefer a flat tax rather than a fair tax that herman cain wants to go to. people are rising and fallingo all the time. >> they don't want romney. he might be the only competitive one on the stage. as much as i hate to stay this,e i think there's room for newt gingrich to get back in the race which is strange coming from me. i don't see rick perry returning. i think he's made too many fatal mistakes. i think he's out. >> there are a lost details, a sean, in rick perry's family ort herman cain's plan. the bottom line is the reasonth these plans are resonating withr republican voters and voters at

large is because we're dying noa just to talk about austin austey measures and cutting spendingin which is absolutely necessarywh but we need to have a pro growth conversation in this country. that's what these tax plans are all about.an >> sean, remember, four years ago this week the frontrunner of the republican nomination wasnai rudy guiliani. things can change in politics. >> mccain wasn't leading in the polls until december 31st. unt we don't know who thes frontrunner will be., >> who is obama, really quickly in the short time we have left.l who does obama fear the most. john? can bring his m economic record to the americans people and point out how hope and change has turned to fair and loathing. >> i want a name. >> anyone can beat obama. >> i think that's probably t right. i think that romney can do ital because he can cross over. don't discou t