& friends" on friday. log on to our web site for the after the show show. find out the best treat you can give your pet to drive him nuts. >> gretchen: see you tomorrow. bill: morning, everybody! fox news alert now, can anything stop the king train? brond new fox polling numbers -- the cain train, brand new numbers show he's taking the top spot in the nomination. did anyone call this one? good morning, i'm bill hemmer. how you doing today? >> martha: good question. bill: dicall it? >> martha: no. we like to mention when we did call things, but this one, we did not! good morning, everybody, i'm martha maccallum. you've got three separate polls out there that show him very much in the lead. his support has quadrupled over the last two months, he leads mitt romney slightly and has put a lot of distance between himself and rick perry who's there at 10 percent right now, and that's the way things stack

up. bill he was with sean last night on hannity. he says he's feeling the heat from being now in the top tier. listen: >> i knew that the bull's eye on my back, sean, was big, but i didn't know it was that big until that last debate! and i did not feel as if i was able to explain their attacks adequately, because as you know, you only get 30 seconds to respond. but the good news is i continue to deflect it by saying you haven't read the plan, you haven't read the analysis. the fact that i have a direct, clear message about how i would address these crises we face is resonating with the american people, and i think that that has driven it a lot. bill: all right, now stephen hayes breaks it down, senior writer for the weekly standard and fox fox news contributor. how you doing? >> grng, bill. bill: is he now the frontrunner? >> he's the frontrunner but a tenuous frontrunner. he's a frontrunner in terms of lop laid but not in terms

of the other things he needs to be successful like money, campaign infrastructure, early state organization, but certainly, there's no denying that he's a popular man, and what i find most interesting about his support in this poll is that it comes after he's made several gaffs that have gotten a lot of coverage, both here and elsewhere, over the past week. bill: what's that tell you? because i look at some of this polls and i think the folks out there are fickle. i mean, they're scanning up and down this group and trying to find somebody. >> yeah, i think that's right. i mean, what was really interesting in this poll, one of the findings i found most interesting in this poll, was the fact that if you ask republicans if they are enthusiastic about the prospect of a cain presidency or romney presidency or perry presidency, fewer than half respond that they would be enthusiastic about that. and that's something, because much of the polling that we've seen broadly shows that the energy and enthusiasm about 2012 resides on the republican side of the ledger. but they're not necessarily

republican primary voters, particularly enthusiastic about individual candidates at this point. bill: all right. also, herman cain, he's not a politician, he's made his living in the private sector. now, i want to talk about the issues, because social issues are not even on the map this year. and you look at what we found late yesterday, it is the economy, overwhelmingly, well ahead of national security, and i mentioned the social issues down there at 6 percent. that plays to herman cain's strength. and it also plays to mitt romney's strength, does it not? and now they're one and two. >> i think that's right. herman cain is right, it was interesting, listening to his self-assessment on hannity last night where he says the reason he's doing well is because he speaks in clear and direct -- using clear and direct language about the issues that people care most about. i think that's exactly right and i think that's why he's benefitted so much from being in these debates. even the last debate, where it has -- his 999 plan was beat up a bit and he's had to tweak it now, the fact

that it got so much attention gave him even more opportunity to explain it. and yes, he could only explain it in 302nd increments but he still nonetheless got a chance to explain it further and i think people find it appealing. bill: the next big story to be written on this is how long it will last and will it last. stephen hayes out of washington, thank you. martha: so we've got the 999, right? then rick perry's flat tax proposal, romney's 59-point plan, the republican candidates coming out with several proposals really to do one thing that is clearly on americans' minds, and that is to try to reform this huge tax code system we have here and get the economy back on track. so what do voters think about these ideas, about the proposals so far? we'll show you new poll numbers and talk to reagan's former economic adviser about the plans on the table, because that's really what it's all about. bill: sure is. meantime, home page, foxnews.com/nerk's -- "america's newsroom" and our question is this: do you

support a flat tax plan? weigh in and we'll bring you the results later in the show. it's a big part of our polling. we'll show you those results here. martha: and you can check out where newt gingrich is. he's picked up a little steam, he's in third place, double digits in most of the polls we're seeing, edging out rick perry. rick perry is really making an effort out there to try to come back in this thing, so we'll see how he does, but the former house speaker says he believes slow and steady is going to be what wins this race for him. take a listen: >> i think -- [inaudible] >> we want to keep moving forward. martha: a little tough to hear him there. but i think he got his point across. gingrich credits his recent debate performance and his contract for america, for his slight jump in the polls. bill: also, ron paul, promising drastic cuts if he is elected and that includes slashing defense spending

well below president obama's plan. former secretary of defense robert gates, already calling severe cuts catastrophic. last night during "special report" in the center seat, paul responded. >> i think anybody who's cat strof -- i think what is catastrophic is what's happening to our debt and world financial system and part of it is our military spending. i don't cut defense, i cut military spending, which doesn't from my viewpoint help our defense. we're all around the world spending a lot of money. bill: congressman paul said he would not make the cuts if he thought it would make america a weaker country. martha: he's one of the republican presidential candidates who has not seen the spike in his poll numbers. but rick santorum is hanging in this race. we're going to talk to him about why, what he expects to happen for him in these coming debates, and how to get his campaign going. we're going to talk to him coming up. all right. a little bit of good news this morning on the economy. new gross domestic product, gdp numbers, up 2.5%, and

then we have the new weekly jobless numbers that came in, 402,000 people file fog unemployment benefits for the very first time over the course of this week. now, that is above the number that's needed for a healthy economy. stuart varney is anchor of "varney & company" on the fox business network. stuart, gdp is always a little wobbly. sometimes it gets revised if it comes back, as we well know, but what do we make of the new numbers? >> martha, i'm going to put a smile on your face this thursday! yes i a take that 2.5% gdp growth rate, that's a night uptick from the rate of growth earlier in the year. it means no double-dip recession. and if you dig within those numbers, you see that spending actually increased reasonably well. then you throw in the european debt deal, which takes a great deal of pressure off america's financial system, they've got themselves a great big bailout fund, that takes the pressure off us, throw in that weekly unemployment claims number, which was not

good, but not terrible, what you've got is a rally on wall street. your 401(k) is going to go straight up at the opening bell this morning, and martha, you're going to see 12,000 on the dow jones industrial average very early this morning. martha: really? >> yes you are. martha: i'm going to smile! but i'm not going to smile until it happens, stuart. >> it will happen. martha: you know what happens with these things, we always think we know which way the market is go to go and they start looking at something down the road but you're right, there's a good triumbrant of news, leaving things nicely higher. stuart, how are things so different today than they were a couple of days ago? any fundamental change here in the economy you're seeing in terms of manufacturing or job growth? >> no, it's not the american economy createing this wall street rally. that helps. no double-dip recession. that clearly helps. the big deal is the european debt deal. that's been hanging over

everybody for certainly the last few days, where the negotiating has been extremely intense, and it appeared we were on the cliff of a catastrophe in europe which would wash across into america. well, now they've got a deal, whether it sticks or not is irrelevant, they've got a deal now, the markets love it, your stocks are going up. martha: near term, very short term looks decent. for today! twenty-four hours, anyway. stuart, thank you very much. >> sure thing. martha: good to have you here this morning as always. let's take another look at this jobs number, where we are now and what the numbers should be, for what's considered a healthy economy. as we said earlier, we got brand new filings for unemployment, $402,000 -- 402,000, so for a healthy economy, unemployment claims need to be well below 375,000. that's the benchmark number we keep hoping we're going to start seeing here. but take a look at this. this is a really interesting chart. you've got december 2007, at the beginning of that, unemployment claims were only 317,000 back in '07, so you've got that number

steadily rising. there's the peak, 659,000 weekly claims there, then you see where it comes down and here we are today, 402,000. but the yellow line represents where you want to be for a healthy economy. so it looks as if this trend seems to be going in the right direction. decent news today. we'll see how the markets open. stuart says they're going higher, he says we're all going to have smiles on our faces today. mr. hemmer. bill: when varney talks like that, save the paper! new scrutiny on a department of energy loan intended for a company headed by a billionaire out of russia, a house committee wants to know where $70 million in taxpayer money was committed to a project that would benefit a russian steel company working out of michigan. got that? darrell issa is our guest in 30 minutes so stay tuned for more on that. also questions about fast & furious and what's happening. there is a very heated hearing on the hill yesterday. we'll see whether or not she got any answers. martha: that does seem like a lot of stories.

bill: just a couple of martha: that's just the beginning. we have a lot more coming in "america's newsroom". how about this? get married and face a penalty under president obama's health care law? we're hearing this is a hidden measure, and it's getting a bit of attention at a new house hearing this morning. bill: you bet it is. congressman paul ryan, he was going off, accusing the president and the white house of sowing the seeds of class welfare. >> we don't believe in talking to people like they're stuck in some class and the government is here to help them with their stage in life. it, a, gives you bad polices and b, it sows social unrest and c, it doesn't work. bill: there is more on that. coming up, a terrific panel to debate that topic. martha: new pressure on top administration officials to come clean about what they knew about the gun running operation that has been tied down to the death of two border agents. >> for you to have two dead the agents and to have never had a conversation with eric

holder about fast & furious is totally unacceptable. ♪ i think i'll grab me a bowl and spoon now ♪ ♪ crispy flakes calling my name ♪ ♪ yaaaaaaay! four grains come together for nutrition in perfect harmony with great taste. honey bunches of oats.

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martha: you've heard of communities going downhill fast, right? this one is happening in a literal manner, homeowners in everett, washington say the city changed its drainage system and now they have a landslide. look at these pictures on their hands. one house has already been lost, the city refusing to help and now they're suing. >> we've kind of already lost their investment. these houses are worthless. we're just trying to keep a roof over our head. i mean, there's no insurance protecting these houses. martha: wow, what a situation. the city denies the charges, they say the problem was there long before their drainage project. bill: watch that play out, huh? good thing we don't live there. republican candidates going big with their plan to reform the tax system. it is topic a, in so many debates we've watched. but what do voters think about the different plans? when asked what kind of plan

they prefer, 35 percent say a flat rate with no deductions. at the bottom, you find 12 percent say a national sales tax. art laffer is a former reagan economic adviser. break that down for us. why would the flat rate be so favored by americans, do you believe? >> well, because everyone knows it works. everyone knows our current system doesn't work. bill: do they? >> sure they do. if you have a flat single rate, you get what you earn, you pay your tax, you don't have to hire lawyer, accountant, deferred income specialists, that save you huge amounts of money, audits, all this prosecution stuff, all that goes away with a flat tax and everyone pays their fair share throughout the whole process. bill: how would that change the economy, art? >> it would increase the growth rate of the economy up to chinese growth rate. and i'm really serious. when we lowered tax rates in the '80s, in '83, '84, growth rates in the u.s. went way, way up, 7 1/2%

growth in '83, '84 was a 5 1/2%, 6 percent growth. enormous growth. that's what we need. and flat tax will do it for us, it really will, and democrats like it, too, by the way. bill: i know you're going to make that argument and in our polling, what we found is the tea party and republicans like it. democrats are at 25 percent, reading left to right, republicans, at 47 percent, independents, higher than democrats, at 34, and the tea party is number one at 49 percent. what is the difference, do you think, in those voters? >> well, i think right now, the democratic leadership is bashing the flat tax and so therefore, the democrats aren't showing their true feelings towards the flat tax. i think the democratic numbers will rise up to over 50 percent, and i think obama by opposing a flat tax will seal his own doom. jerry brown, in 1992, ran in the primary, democratic primary, against bill clinton on a real flat tax. the best one ever.

and he went from eighth in the race to second in the race, and he would have beaten bill clinton had he not done some other stuff. the democrats love the flat tax, too, and republicans adore it. bill: you wonder whether or not washington has it in them to change if indeed they're convinced of it. >> they do. bill: the flat tax, 20 percent or less s. a few bullet points, it would eliminate a lot of deduction, credits, exemptions, it would also eliminate the death tax, capital gains tax, and tax on dividends, and that's where you would argue that supply side would invigorate the economy again, and that's what brings us to our story of the day. if you look right now on the our fox polling, herman cain has now gone to number one and should would argue he's a frontrunner at 24 percent, four points ahead of mitt romney. why is that happening art? >> because he came out with a flat tax first. he came out with a credible, really good flat tax and that has just caught the

imagination in the republican primary and what's really cool is that all the other candidates, and i mean all of them, all want to get lower rates on a broader base, there is u animinity coming from the republicans and i just love it. i think they're debating the right issues and the debate is very, very healthy. perry has got a good one, newt gingrich has got a good one, cain has a great one, romney has proposals that are also very good, michele bachmann is to die for and good, so you've got a really ronder -- wonderful -- and huntsman, huntsman as governor of of the best ever. if you saw his plan, it's fantastic. bill: you like what you're hearing so far. >> oh, i love it! and i don't see any weird stuff going on in the republican party that would make me feel uncomfortable. and that really pleases me. bill: thank you, art, out of nashville. >> my pleasure. bill: okay. martha, what's next? >> martha: time is running out on capitol hill for this so-called supercommittee. they have less than a month now to come up with a real, $1.2 trillion cut in our budget, or else, these

drastic cuts are going to kick in, defense department extremely, concerned about that. so what's the plan? jeb hensarling is the co-chair. we're going to talk to him next. bill: apple a day keeps the doctor away, right? still? what happens when you get lost in the orchard? an embarrassing nine # one call from a local tv weather guy. view it. >> yes, we're can't find our way out. we're walking, and it's getting dark.

bill: so the conversation started like this. honey, let'sgy apple picking! and it ended like this: operator, how in the world do we get out of here? mark rose been thall and his wife got lost in the rows and tree, they called the orchard's store for help but it was closed.

that's when rosenthal called 911! >> yes, we are in the honey pot orchard. >> uh-huh? >> we can't find our way out. >> and we're wawrks and it's getting dark. bill: well, police tracked the call with gps! and rosenthal is the local tv weatherman out of boston. he explained how all the trouble started there? >> i just folded my wife. she's a speech pathologist, she's a teacher, she shows everything, she said follow me, i know where i'm going, i said really? so she brought me down this dirt road. bill: i am not stops and asking for directs, ever! the orchard says in 85 years, it's the first time anyone got lost inside. martha: that's like the people in the corn maze that called 99 -- that called 911 and they said isn't your husband there with you? yeah, he's of no help whatsoever, and his wife was of no help whatsoever! bill: folks dying to get on television. martha: you are so cynical!

people would get lost in the honey pot orchard so they can be on our show? i know everyone wants to be on our show, but -- >> you will keep your current insurance! no government takeover, nobody is changing what you've got if you're happy with it. martha: all right. so that was president obama, and that was back when the debate was raging over the health care overhaul, as you well remember, but now it has been passed, and people are going through the details of what's in it. some critics are zeroing in on what they say is actually a hidden marriage penalty in the health care bill. some argue that might lead some people to want to stay single. imagine that. let's talk to singleman peter doocy on capitol hill. hello there, peter! >> hello martha. >> reporter: according to republicans, if you take the plunge, you're going to take a hit under this new health care law, a new report by the white house oversight committee says the joint committee on taxation crunched the numbers and found that married couples will receive only 14 percent of the patient protection

and affordable care act tax ced it's -- credits, that at least, 2 million couples out of 6 million would benefit from this law in the year 2012 -- 2021 and because of this fewer will walk down the aisle, which one at the hearing says it's going to ripple throughout society. she's going to testify that, quote, for some couples, love conquers all and crude financial considerations will not enter into the decision as to whether to tie the knot, still under the new law some might defer marriage either temporarily or permanently or get divorced, contributing to a host of social problems such as increase in fatherless families and crime, others might conceive it makes sense for one woman not to work in order for the family to qualify for government health premiums rnlings so the theme out of this hearing is romance is dead if you want to save money under this new law. martha: that's going to great lengths in terms of changing your entire lifestyle in order to save money. i don't believe that people will do that, but we'll see,

maybe they're right. peter, thank you very much. stay single, i guess, for now. you're a young guy. bill: i advise it! martha: don't alone to hemmer on this one. bill: a couple of bad apples. it was a state with the most red ink, california's democratic governor proposing massive cuts and ballooning pension plans. will the unions go for it, will the lawmakers go for it. martha: congressman paul ryan, have you heard what he has been paying, president obama has been, quote, preying on emotions and fear and resentment. he also said he is sewing the seeds of social unrest. we're going to debate that. >> i think it's the rhetoric of class division that is especially destabilizing. this is not the american idea. we believe in a system of upper mobility. we believe in a system to get the hurdles out of peoples' way so they can rise in society. we don't believe in talking to people like they're stuck in some class and the government is here to help

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oakland that happened a day early. rick leventhal is on this in new york city. good morning. the protersers -- protestors in oakland vowed to come back. did they and how did it go? >> reporter: the situation in oakland much more peaceful. no confrontations or arrests but a heavy police presence. on dust demonstrators faced cops and fear and protests as police cleared the plaza outside oakland city hall, police pelted with rocks, bottles and other objects, and they arrested about 100 in the crowd. they put up a barricade to keep people out, and cops described how one war veteran suffered a cracked skull in the skirmish. scott olsen, a 24-year-old marine in critical condition. not clear how he was hit and who did it. >> when protestors act, we take appropriate action, our job is to protect life and property and make sure that the citizens of oakland are

safe. today we are going to continue our commitment to applicable safety and allowing the people to gather, march, and express themselves in a peaceful manner. that has been our intent from the onset, and we are committed to ensuring that. >> reporter: there are some reports this morning though that the marine might have been hit with a tear gas canister. bill: all right. now, there was a report late yesterday that the group that used to be known as acorn is involved somehow in occupy wall street? >> >> reporter: foxnews.com is reporting that occupy wall street protestors may have professional help from veteran activists who worked for acorn, the disbanded community group that shut down last year. the dotcom reporting acorn's former brooklyn headquarters is headquarters for new york community for change where former acorn workers plan strategies. they declined fox news' invitation to discuss the story but issued a statement saying fox news is trying to discredit occupy wall street, new york communities for change is a new organization that fights for low and moderate income

families. we don't pay protestors, and any monies raised by nycc's canvas are used in support of our ongoing issue campaigns, period. they go on to say that we should respect the views of the overwhelming majority of americans who believe our nation needs a more equitable distribution of wealth. bill: we'll see what happens today. rick, thank you for that, rick lev been thall from our newsroom in new york. martha: republican congressman paul ryan came out swinging against president obama, accusing the president of using divisive rhetoric to sell his jobs plan. here's ryan on the record last night with greta. >> i don't enjoy doing this, because he gave us a message of hope three years ago, of uniting, not divide, and what we're getting are class warfare, we're getting very polarizing rhetoric that pluts class against class, pits people against one another and i would simply say sewing social unrest and class resentment does not make america stronger, it

makes america weaker. ma: joined now by rich lowry, editor of the national review, also a fox news contributor, and christopher han, a former aide to senator chuck schumer. gentlemen, welcome. >> hi martha. martha: to you both here today. >> martha, how are new. >> martha: doing fine, thank you very much. let's look at what ryan was talking about in terms of the language the president has been using to sell the jobs plan. here it is: >> i reject the idea that asking a hedge fund manager to pay the same tax rate as a plumber or teach ser class warfare. >> you can't pretend that creating dirtier air and water for our kids and fewer people on health care and less accountability on wall street is a jobs plan. >> the one thing that we absolutely know for sure is that if we don't work even harder than we did in 2008, then we're going to have a government that tells the american people, you are on your own. martha: so christopher han, let me start with you. what's your reaction to paul ryan's charges about the president? >> i think paul ryan has

been spending too much time in the gym and is lacking oxygen to the brain. i mean, the president is responding to paul ryan's plan which would have hurt many, many americans. what paul ryan and republicans want is for americans to dream that someday, their polices which might your -- which right now positively impact less than 1 percent americans will someday benefit them, someday you'll ab billionaire with a private jet, someday you'll get to pollute the environment and get your water out of a bottle, but that's reality for most americans. most americans are going to work very, very hard their entire life and if we're giving all the benefits in our tax code to the richest 1 percent of americans that's not going to help all of us get up -- move on to a better life and live the american dream. so the president is right, the message is right on point. he got to work to make these things happen. martha: rich? >> look, what's happened is the president's economic program has failed, and as a result of that, he's taking a hard left turn since the midterm elections because it's all he has left, he has

to blame other people and paul ryan is absolutely right, he has to rely on the politics of division rather than the politics of unity that he ran on in 2008 and -- 2008 and the idea that you can fund the government we have based on the top 1 percent is ularly dishonest as paul ryan pointed out in his speech, you could confiscate all the wealth of people making more than $250,000 a year and you're funding the government for six months, so eventually the tax burden -- >> it has to fall -- it will fall on the middle. that's what president obama is not telling people. that's why he's dishonest. martha: hold on. i have a question for you christopher han with regard to that. i thought this was a really interesting point. you talk about paul ryan's plan and one of the things in it was to do means testing for social security and for medicare, because the notion is we all know that there's a lot of people out there who don't need these checks and they fall into that percentage, so it's very interesting that democrats were so against paul ryan's plan which

basically did sort of, you , disparity between warren buffet and his secretary when it came to those issues, yet they hated that idea. doesn't that seem weird to you? >> well, they didn't hate that idea in his plan. what they hated, the idea that making medicare into a voucher program that runs out. if grandma needs a hip replacement under ryan's plan, she's going to have to pay for it out of her pocket. i don't know what she's going to do, maybe wash cars or sell cookies on the street. martha: wait a minute. wait a minute. the whole idea is that you, you know, you don't need to cut entitlements for the people who are receiving them. what you need to do is sort of change the model going forward, and that would include getting those benefits for people who are young now, a little bit later, and you know, also doing some means testing. rich, i'm fascinated by this idea. why isn't everybody seizing on that idea, democrats and republicans alike? if indeed it would help this disparity that we're hearing so much about? >> because democrats want to demagogue on entitlements. that's what they do. here you have paul ryan saying let's not give rich

people so many benefits and chris is attacking them, say ing grandma is in the streets, going to have to sell cookie cents. it's absurd. -- cookies. the consensus, if you flatten the tax code and eliminate these loopholes and deduction, that is good for growth. what we need first, desperately, in this country, rich -- >> growth and president obama -- >> martha: let me -- before i let you -- i want to ask one quick question about this social unresting, because paul ryan suggested that what the president is talking about, and the way that he is talking about it and handling it is sewing social unrest this this country. we've seen what's happening in europe and we've seen what is bubbling up in some of these relatively small pockets of people, we should point out, but they're in many different places across the country. is the president sewing seeds of social unrest as paul ryan says? chris, quickly, then rich. >> paul ryan was speaking at tea party rallies where they

were basically calling the president a communist. i don't know what he's talking about. as for the simpson-bowles point, paul ryan had an opportunity to bring that to the floor of the united states congress and he said no to it and his plan is vastly different. >> martha: -- >> he opposed it because bowles-simpson didn't take care of the health care problem. even president obama admits health care is going to bankrupt this country disantd want to do it -- doesn't want to deal with it. the rhetoric is ugly and divisive and i wish he was strongly con semming every time the protestors clash with the cop, engage in lawless acts. martha: we have to leave it there. rich lowry -- >> it's reality-based, rich. >> martha: see you, guys. >> thank you for having us. >> it was fun. bill: checking the markets, it's booming, the the bulls are to the upside. europe appears to have a deal. growth is not great in america, but okay, 2.5%, which seems to suggest we're not headed for a double-dip and now you've got --

>> martha: that would be good news. bill looks like pamplona on wall street, doesn't it? rick perry's team suggesting the texas governor may skip upcoming debates. will that hurt him or is it a stroke of political genious? martha: janet napolitano grilled over fast & furious, the federal gun program gone horribly wrong. now more calls for eric holder to resign. we're going to talk about that. plus, we're going to talk to darrell issa, the congressman who has been leading this investigation about fast & fu foo -- fast & furious. we'll be right back. >> how is it that you can make the claim the border is more secure than ever and yet the obama administration purposefully allows nearly 2000 guns to be released knowing they're going to go to mexico, with hundreds killed by those weapon, two dead u.s. agents? nobody wants to be seen wearing hearing aids.

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heat on the investigation into the fast & furious program, grilling secretary napolitano taking her to task for the lack of communication between homeland security and the justice department and eric holder: >> i find that absolutely stunning, and for you to have two dead agents and to have never had a conversation with eric holder about fast & furious and about this is totally unacceptable. totally unacceptable. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >> mr. chairman, i know representative chaffetz has an opinion on this matter as the question reveals but i would simply suggest that no one takes the death of agents more serious than i, and also, that one of the reasons that we have not directly dealt with the attorney general on this is he very quickly and appropriately put this matter in the hands of the inspector general. bill: there is a whole lot more of that happening, congressman darrell issa, chair of the government oversight reform, and sir,

welcome back to "america's newsroom". >> bill, thank you for covering in and -- thank you for covering this and how jason chaffetz rightfully so said you can't say you're serious, you can't go to the funerals for photo ops and not even bring up the subject with your counterparts month after month. bill: let's get to some of the heat from yesterday. based on your questioning and the questioning of others, you are convinced that someone is hiding something where? now, who is hiding what and where? >> the most important thing is they're hiding the basic question of month after month that this program continued to put guns in the hands of the worst guys, even before brian terry and jaime swr pata were killed, why did they miss the opportunity to stop this program? they want to say they've briefed, on top, running the show and then they don't read the briefings when it showed that fast & furious was briefed repeatedly, over five times, to eric holder,

and as you saw yesterday, janet napolitano wants to go to funerals and have photo ops and tell the family she'll do everything and won't even have that conversation. in the two-months between brian terry's murder and the time that that very quick i. g. investigation giannoo. >> bill: which may prove terrible communication, but is that against the law? what is the boundary here? >> it's not a lack of communication from the sense of legal. it's a failure to perform your lawful duties. these individuals, like myself, like jason chaffetz, we have a constitutional responsibility to the american people and in the case of the law top law enforcement officer, eric holder, and the top security officer for our security around our borders and around the world, janet napolitano, they have to talk. they have to talk daily, weekly. they have to communicate. and for them to have months go on and say this wasn't important enough to talk or after something as mundane as an i.g. investigation -- understand, the i.g. works

for eric holder. he said go investigate. basically what he said is go find people to blame at a low level and she's in the process of doing that. real investigation is is soul searching at the top and particularly close to the top, where lanny brewer and so many other individuals knew about this program, knew it was wrong, and failed to stop it. bill: she warned yesterday not to rush to judgment. ultimately, where does this lead, do you believe, based on what you know today? >> we're so far past rushing to judgment that we're at a time where it's practically just historical. you can't go months and now a year plus past when this program should have been suggest down and pretend that we're in a hurry. where this program goes is we're going to continue to ask who knew what and when. eric holder clearly was disingenuous when he came before congress and claimed he only knew about fast & fuous, quote a. few weeks before that may ninth question. he obviously knew more, and we'd like to know when.

but janet napolitano wants to be hands over her ears and eyes and pretend she's doing her job. well, she just doesn't want to know how brian terry was killed. why jaime zapata wasn't properly protected. and what weapons killed him. these are important issues north of the border and for those hundreds of people murdered south of the border, it's important too. bill it appears right now the answers are elusive. there's another topic i want to get to. apparently a taxpayer loan has been intended for a russian steel company doing business in michigan, $730 million worth. the energy department says the money has been committed but not spent. now others are suggesting this is another solyndra. is it? and do you expect a reversal on this commitment because the money has not been put out there yet? >> we'd like to have a reversal on the commitment. first of all this purchase would have gone through with or without the government backstop. secondly, there were no jobs

created. one of the great scandals here is, remember, this is just making steel, and as a matter of fact, the type of steel for which there's an excess in the market. but more importantly, the jobs that are being, quote, created here are being moved from other plants. so this is an example, no jobs created, not green energy, not necessary to make this happen, and not a u.s. investor. so on every possible count, the american people care about, this loan never should have passed the sniff test. bill: we'll see whether or not it stops now. darrell issa, thank you for your time. ten minutes before the hour. martha: bernie madoff's scheme cost scores of people their entire life savings, their retirement, their livelihood. and now, ruth madoff, telling "60 minutes" about the moment that she and her husband decided to end it all. bill: it is dramatic, too. also rick santorum, pulling no punches in these debates. listen to this. >> several people, quote, the business people,

supported the t.a.r.p., supported the bailout, governors perry, romney -- no, you wrote a letter on the day of the vote, governor, saying the quote -- to vote for the plan. >> no, i didn't. >> yes you did, governor. bill: that was then. he's live next.

martha: -- martha: a stunning revelation from the wife of bernie madoff, ruth madoff claims the couple tried to overdose on pills after his arrest for the biggest ponzi scheme in history, saying this, quote, i don't know whose idea it was but we decided to kill ourselves because it was so horrendous what was happening. fox business network's adam shapiro covered this story extensively when it first broke and throughout. adam, good morning. big revelation here >> reporter: it is a big revelation a. lot of people surprised that ruth madoff,

finally breaking her silence, speaking to a sunday magazine and speaking to "the new york times", the entire interview not airing until sunday and being published sunday but she's talking about christmas eve 2008, roughly a month after the revelation that her husband was behind the largest crime ponzi scheme in history, stealing billions from his clients and ruth madoff went on to say, as far as that suicide attempt, that they had had terrible phone calls, hate mail, just beyond anything, and she said i just can't go on anymore. of course, it was a failed suicide attempt. but that was their state of mind on christmas eve 2008. martha: so why is ruth breaking her silence at this point do you think adam? >> reporter: that's a great question. there is a publicity tour, for lack of a better phrase, that's going on. you have her daughter-in-law, stephanie madoff mack, who published a book, this is widow of mark madoff who committed suicide and in her book she says

horrendous things about bernie madoff, as well as ruth, that i hate bernie madoff, if i saw him now i would tell him that i hold him fully responsible for killing my husband and i'd spit in his face. ruth madoff is breaking her silence because in in order to have contact with her grandchildren and we're other surviving son, this is the price she has to pay. martha: it's like a shakespearean tragedy, this whole thing all around. adam, thank you very much. adam shapiro. we'll see more of that over the weekend. bill: coming up next hour here, a new plan in california, the governor there says it will save the states hundreds of millions of dollars. what's in it? and will it work? >> martha: his past performances have been called, quote, inarticulate and amateurish by one critic, but rick perry is hinting that he may skip some of the future debates. is that a good idea for him? >> i do think he made mistakes and i'm curious to know whether you do. >> i don't think anybody has

ever run a perfect campaign. >> with all due respect, can i tell you a mistake i think you made? >> sure. >> all right. ♪ [ gong ] strawberry banana! [ male announcer ] for a smoothie with real fruit plus veggie nutrition new v8 v-fusion smoothie. could've had a v8. free gold ! we call that hertz gold plus rewards. you earn free days, free weeks and more fast. that's a plus. upgrade your ride. that's a plus. rewards with no blackout dates so you can redeem anytime. and it's easy to redeem your points online. already a gold member ? just select gold plus rewards in your profile

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call this toll-free number on your screen now... r this free information kit, including this... medicare guide and customized rate quote. martha: too many debates and simply not enough time to get to them all. texas governor rick perry says he will skip a few to spend a little more time on the campaign trail. so what's up with that? brand new hour of "america's newsroom" getting rolling right now. i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. good morning, how are you doing. pretty fast hour. martha: sure was. bill: we'll debate this now. perry took a bit of a beatdown at times in the past in the debates. dropping in our own polling for the top spot for a distant fourth and down to 10%. martha: some analysts say this might be the right move for him. >> these debates are set up nothing pour than to tear down the candidates. if there was a mistake made it was probably ever doing

one of the, ever doing one of the campaigns when all they're interested in is stirring it up between the candidates. martha: interesting, right? bring in byron york, chief political correspondent for the "washington examiner". also a fox news contributor. the latest word on this, byron, they haven't pulled out of anything. they haven't confirmed anything. and they do expect to do the november 9th debate which is going to focus on foreign policy. that's the latest. >> but it's clear, the debate thing isn't working for rick perry. i mean he went from being in the 30s in the polls, the frontrunner in september, to being single digits today, fourth or 5th place in the race. the single most important reason for his fall is the poor performance in the debates. on the other hand, if you're out watching rick perry, if you ever watched him work a crowd, shaking hand with people, making eye contact, really connecting with them, he is really good at that. his people want him out more in iowa, south carolina, working with people, meeting

people and doing one-on-one voter contact. martha: i iowa is big question. i don't think anyone knows who will win eye awe. they're looking at each other in their meetings saying get you on the ground in iowa and talking to people and get rid of this herman cain person. >> the problem if he says he will not do the debates he will be hit merslessly for chickening out. it will look bad. martha: yeah. >> i will say perry has a point in a sense there awful lot of debates coming up, perhaps a dozen, 18, remember some of the debates were planned when we thought the iowa caucuses would be on february 6th. now they will be on january 3rd. a lot less time. more debates and less time to have them. martha: "saturday night live", welcome to the 7th or possibly 8th republican national debate. that was pretty funny. talk about mitt romney. he had back and forth on issue in ohio. this is fascinating issue for him and how tough he will be on the unions.

let's watch the back and forth and get your thoughts on it, byron. >> i'm not speaking about the particular ballot issues. those are the people of ohio but i certainly support the effort of the governor to rein in the scale of the government i'm not terribly familiar with the ballot initiatives. i'm sorry if i created any confusion in that regard. i fully support, governor kasich's i think it is called question 2 in ohio. fully support that. on my website back as early as april i laid out i support question 2 and governor kasich's effort to restrict collective bargaining in ohio. martha: governor of virginia back there nodding in the background, yes he does, yes he does. you think he didn't know maybe the way they phrased it on the campaign trail? do you think he didn't know what they were talking about there or kind of not want to be on the record with 5? >> what an embarassment. if he didn't know he should have known. this was a case in which he actually went to the phone bank to support this issue and then came out and was

ambivalent on issue. just got clobbered in the conservative commentary, conservative blogs beating up on him all day and come back and completely back tracks. the problem with romney that feeds continuing narrative of him as a flip-flopper. he tried to remain neutral on this next day he came out and fully in support of it. it was a bad day for romney. martha: that is why people were clamoring for chris christie. when it comes to the union issue this is something a lot of folks on the conservative side want to hear somebody really definitive on, right? >> absolutely. governor scott walker in wisconsin has been a hero among conservatives the way he stood up to unions there. john kasich done something similar in ohio. here romney is coming in being very wishy-washy about it only next day coming out after getting clobbered. coming out and supporting it. it does not help romney's image with conservatives. martha: byron thank you. >> thank you, martha. bill: he might be running

second in the national polling but mitt romney is leading in strategic places. like first four states on the republican calendar. romney beating herman cain in iowa three points. contest is in early january. blowout in new hampshire. they favor the governor of nearby massachusetts by 27 points. south carolina, romney holding a slim lead over herman cain, 25, 23 there. florida, mitt romney commanding 12-point lead over rest of the field. that's what we see today, martha. martha: we want to point to the herman cain's web video showing his campaign chief of staff reflecting on the campaign puffing on cigarette. a lot of people thought this was very odd. democratic strategist james carville out there slamming this ad. saying block was drunk or stone in his opinion. cain defended ad on "hannity" the other night. ear is what he said. >> many of us found it hilarious. we know mark block.

there was no hidden message. we were in vegas we wanted to put something new out of the internet because i was inundated with other requests. i trusted mark block which i still do and i thought he did a great job with the ad. martha: there you have it. pollster and fox news contributor frank luntz held a focus group on unconventional ad. wait until you see their surprising reaction to it coming up ahead. we talk to gop presidential candidate rick santorum. he has been struggling mightily in the polls. we'll ask what is next for him. bill: hanging out on a marlboro light, right? california budget problems are huge. governor jerry brown trying to get a handle on it. set to announce sweeping changes that he believes will fix the troubled pension system. he proposes raising retirement age from 65 to 67 for new employees not public safety workers. require workers to pay more to retirement and health care. he believes it could save $900 million in california.

eric bolling "follow the money" on fox business network. >> good morning, bill. bill: this is big proposal. wonder if it goes anywhere. they're deep in red. >> at one point they were $20 billion in the red. byron york pointed out something very important. scott walker in wisconsin was textbook example what happens when you go after the unions. when you go after collective bargaining. when you stop the bleeding. what wisconsin done they turned it around. they were $3.6 billion in the red. looks like they will make 300, 400 million back in the first year on the path to correcting that. kasich trying to do it as well. all based on chris christie's assessment, fixing union, public pension problems as the way to go. so what happens? now you have new york governor andrew cuomo who wants to do it. on the west coast you have jerry brown who is trying to do it. clearly what these budget, these state budgets need to do is to address the pension, retirement problems and the way --. bill: issue got to get it

passed into law, right? got to get through the legislature and unions too. >> absolutely. bill: $500 billion is budget gap for retirement funds in california the they're trying to do it in ohio. we'll find out in a week or not whether it survives referendum. part of the issue in california with a nurse making $270,000 a year. >> there are a lot of things. there is 12-point plan that governor brown wants to propose or wants to be made into law. one of them what is called pension spiking. what happens is late in their, when a pension recipient is about to retire they back load all their days off that they didn't take, all the sick days and put it into the last few months of their, before their retirement and and, or, take it in the form of pay. they will spike their pay right before they retire. if they're coming into their pension with 60% of their full pay, they're actually going 60% of a much higher number, almost making more than they were making during most of their years of service to the state. so, it is going to address

the spiking issue as well. this is very good thing. bill: we'll see if it goes anywhere right? >> that's right. bill: they could use the help. >> hemmer, 8:05 we'll watch texas and st. louis. bill: good luck to your cardinals. thank you, eric bolling. martha: guess i'm not invited. bill: yes, absolutely. martha: i have plans. never mind. new reaction coming in to the president's student loan bailout program. the president says the whole thing will help millions of people pay off the pesky student loans they still owe. republicans say it will leave taxpayers footing the bill. what does this really boil down to? national correspondent steve centanni is looking into it for us in washington. first off, what is the proposal here, steve? >> reporter: the president wants to speed up a program to reduce student loan payments. the program was set to go into effect in 2014. now it will begin next year. it provides students will not have the to pay more than 10% of their income on student loan repayments. after 20 years of payment, the loan would be forgiven

all together. now the president told a group of students at the university of colorado-denver campus this will amount to a shot in the arm for the entire economy. >> and because you will have some certainty knowing that it's only a certain percentage of your income that is going to pay off your student loans, that means you will be more confident and comfortable to buy a house or save for retirement. and that will give our economy a boost at a time when it desperately needs it. >> reporter: this is part of the president's effort or his push to take executive action saying if congress isn't acting we're going to do it, saying quote, we can't wait. martha? martha: so, steve, the critics, the congress i should say they approved this student loan measure. what are the critics saying is wrong with it? >> reporter: congress passed it but the president is speeding it up. some simply don't like the idea of putting taxpayers on the hook for more of the student loan program. here's how budget committee

chairman paul ryan on that. >> so now this is all on the government's books. taxpayers are liable for all these loans if they go bad and it takes away choice and competition in the student loan market for students. >> reporter: ryan is also accusing the president of being devisive but press secretary jay carney says actually it is the gop is being divisive. the president is trying to unite people. back to you, martha. martha: thank you, steve centanni, you're always welcome by the way. martha: thank you. bill: you be a rangers fan. i'm a cardinals fan. you keep all the viewers happy. they have four weeks to come up with a trillion dollars in cuts. is the super-committee making any progress? we'll talk to one of the committee's cochairs live on that. also --. martha: he is banging the drum louder than ever right now. former senator rick santorum is at the bottom of nearly every gop poll. but does he have a trick up his sleeve? we'll talk to him about that. bill: talk about survivors.

they set sail for a three-hour tour and they wound up on a desert island. >> much went wrong that day to get us on that island. everything else fell into place to get us off of it. call it a miracle. call it divine intervention. i don't care what you call it. i know what i believe. but we're here now.

bill: this crabbing trip almost turned deadly. three friends on the columbia river in washington state when their boat capsized. >> there was no time at all. it was literally, feel a little nervous. we should turn around. and then three large waves and we were upside down. >> i remember reaching down to try to grab a life vest and the boat was turning as i was receiving. so we all ended up in the water. >> you are thinking about family. you're thinking about what are we going to do to survive. honestly i'm thinking this may be it. bill: wow, thank goodness for the coast guard. it did not end there. the men floated in open water for about two hours

before they found a sand island. the next morning they found a boater and called 911. they're all doing okay. martha: well they call this congressional committee the super-committee. they're just meeting this morning to talk about ways to cut the federal budget which is their homework assignment. they have to get it done before things gaving. the congressional budget office director had suggestions for the first open session for lawmakers. here is what he said. >> mandatory spending is a growing share of federal outlays in some cases growing rather rapidly. without addressing that path of spending it would be extremely difficult to put the budget on a sustainable path. martha: that was doug elmendorf. some democrats say these kind of cuts he is talking about are off the table in these discussions. >> we're telling the super-committee, hand off social security, medicare, and medicaid period. martha: there you have it. texas congressman jeb

hensarling is the co-chair of the joint select committee on deficit reduction known as the super-committee. congressman, welcome. good to have you here this morning. >> thanks for having me. martha: they heard the whole group heard doug elmendorf yesterday from the cbo he said you can't possibly get there without cutting into entitlements. you heard from congressman conyers. he said there is no way they will agree with that. what is the sentiment? what is the tempers like in there? >> listen everybody's temperature is fine. everybody at the table part of the committee is serious about the task. i hope everybody was listening very carefully to dr. doug elmendorf, who by the way is democratic appointee to head up the congressional budget office. there are many things this committee could do that could be helpful in our debt crisis. but there is only one that counts as dr. elmendorf pointed out, that is to slow the rate of growth in programs that are unsustainable and disserving their beneficiaries.

increasingly doctors are not seeing medicaid patients. we're seeing forms of rationing when it comes to access and quality. in social security, my children are due to put more money into the system than they take out. martha: right. >> unless we reform these current entitlement programs for future generations nothing else counts. frankry this committee will fail as a committee it if we don't do that. martha: what about the republican side? not willing to do anything that involves any tax increases, is that correct? >> well we've said from day one we want the country to have more tax revenue. we want the treasury to have more tax revenue. but we want to do it under pro-growth policies. we want to build the economy. we want to bring down rates. we want to get rid of loopholes and all the tax expenditures and exclusions the we believe that will have a very pro-growth impact. so yes, growth and more tax revenues are part of the solution. martha: understood. let me ask you this. what's the bottom line here?

you're supposed to come up with this deal cutting 1.2 trillion before thanksgiving. we've had a couple of military guests, a four-star general on with us the other day, if those cuts don't have, 1.2 trillion by thanksgiving you will see what many are calling draconian cuts to our defense programs. are you is this committee going to get those cuts by that date? >> when you ask me what's the bottom line, unfortunately i may have to wait until midnight on november 22nd to answer your question. we're still having negotiations. but i do agree under this particular budget control act law that set up this committee that potentially there could be not just serious cuts but draconian cuts in national defense. i don't think that will stand. i will personally fight to insure we don't hollow out our national defense as we attempt to solve our nation's debt crisis. but again it is serious work that the committee is doing. it in of itself will not solve the debt crisis but i hope we can take at least a

few steps down the road of fiscal sustainability. like our former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said the greatest threat to our national security is our national debt and we can't address our national debt unless we address medicare, medicaid and social security. you don't have to cut a penny, martha. but you have to slow down the rate of growth and insure we get quality retirement security, quality health care at a cost that does not bankrupt our children. martha: congressman hensarling, i don't have to tell you the whole country is watching and waiting to hear what comes out of this committee and cbo said we don't need it 22nd of november. we need it two weeks before that if you want us to score it and reveal what is in it for the american people. we wish you good luck on that project, sir. everybody's watching. thank you so much for being here today. we appreciate it. >> okay. bill: november 23rd is the deadline. martha: yep. bill: day before thanksgiving. watch that. president obama said we need to take the troops out of iraq and do it by year's end. is that the right move? we'll ask a navy seal who

has been there. the police questioning baby lisa's two brothers again. that's not all they want. our legal panel on what new dna could mean for that case. >> it has been a balance in terms of understanding the needs of these children and the best interests of these children and the need for law enforcement to have as much information as they can possibly get. so that is, that's a balance that we've had to consider.

♪ . martha: absolute favorite story of the day. bollywood cops to life with a real "slumdog millionaire" in india. kumar, a poor government clerk from a poverty

stricken region was the first contestant to win it all, on the popular game show, india's version of "who wants to be a millionaire." i love them. he and his wife cried when they were handed a check for more than a million dollars. he watched the show religiously from his neighbor's house because his family couldn't afford a television. he plans to buy -- he was good with trivia. the neighbors said you need to go on the show and win the money. he did just that. he will buy a new home. pay off his parents debt. he wants to help his brothers start a business. he is going to take a course so he can get a civil service job that he feels would be a good future for him. our best to him. i love that story. bill: our producers are doing hand flips. they're doing hand flips over the show. now they got the story. conrad murray will he take the stand in the michael jackson matter? murray's lawyers are calling some of their final witnesses today. adam housley live on that story outside court in l.a. will he testify, adam?

>> reporter: bill, that's the big question. all along they said that was a possibility. the defense team hinted that would never happen. there are some legal analysts who say you know what? yesterday the witnesses that came through here really gave a great picture of dr. murray. that might encourage the defense to have him testify. but at this hour, bill there is really we're told only two witnesses left. one is an expert who will talk about addiction. the second one is the witness everyone has been waiting for for the defense. that is dr. paul white. you might remember last week we had dr. steven schaeffer. these two men, if dr. murray doesn't testify, they will come down to be the two most important witnesses because a jury will have to believe one or the other. if they believe dr. steven schaeffer. that is great for the prosecution. he says that dr. murray made mistakes on 17 different occasions egregious mistakes. while dr. white is expected to say the exact opposite. bill? bill: they had what, five witnesses testifying yesterday saying he was a great doctor?

any headway there for the defense, adam? >> reporter: yeah they really did make headway. dr. murray cried in the court at times and it seemed real. by all accounts these witnesses were very credible. they talked about how dr. murray was attentive. how dr. murray always cared about them even after hours. take a listen to one of them, bill. >> when we come we'll know we'll be there a while because is very careful to take care of his parents. >> that man sitting there is the best doctor i have ever seen. >> i just don't think he did what he is being accused of. i wanted to help. >> reporter: that gives you a glimpse, bill, what we heard yesterday in the courtroom. during cross-examination the defense would say did he ever give you any medication in your own home? every single witness of course said no. bill? bill: adam housley thanks, live in l.a. this morning. thank you, adam. martha, what's next? martha: this is man we didn't know before. now we do. he is centerpiece after strange new campaign ad, it

was a web ad. what do voters think of this man with the cigarette? we'll show you very surprising audience reaction. bill: that we will. also senator rick santorum stuck in single digits in just about every poll. what is his strategy? we'll ask him live and you'll learn it with us. in three minutes nobody in this race won a major race against a democratic incumbent except me. i didn't run as a liberal in 1994. i ran in 1994 the same year mitt did in massachusetts. he ran as a liberal to the left of kennedy and lost. i ran as conservative against james carville and paul begala and i won. but with advair, i'm breathing better so now i can take the lead on a science adventure. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both

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as with all medicare supplement plans, you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare, get help paying for what medicare doesn't... and save up to thousands of dollars. call this toll-free number now. martha: fox news alert. this just crossing the wires moments ago with moammar qaddafi dead and now buried, they are lifting the no-fly zone, and that is going to happen on monday we're told. the u.n. security council voting unanimously to lift the no-fly zone, very controversial as we headed into this conflict in libya. that is the news of the hour in libya. >> governor, governor, you're -- >> would you let me speak. rick you had your chance, let me speak. >> you're out of time. you're out of time. what you did is exactly what

barack obama did focused on the wrong problem. greg: that was former pennsylvania senator stapbt r- senator rick santorum. he is my guest. how are you doing, senator. >> i'm doing fine. greg: you like that don't you, you like the verbal sparring. >> i think it's important that people see the differences between the candidates. on the issue of healthcare governor romney did focus on the wrong problem. in fact his governor came out a couple weeks ago, the day after that debate and said now we've got to focus on the big problems in massachusetts which is healthcare cost. that is really the issue. greg: the other thing it does for you is gets you attention. attention is something you need at 3%. i have to ask you, only 3%, what is up with that? >> you know what, if you look at

the fact that i've been spending most of my time in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina, and don't have the big checkbook, and have not got even necessarily the most press attention. we've gone out there and focused and talked to voters. i've been to 70 counties in iowa. we'll be in every one of the 99 counties by the time the election comes around. people see us and we get a chance to kick the tires we do very well. we have a conversion rate of people who come to the meetings and we ask them to sign up. well over 75%. we feel like -- greg: on the way out the door you say three-quarters of the people buy your message. >> they sign up to help us in the campaign. greg: i see your strategy, though it's all in in iowa. michelle bachmann is similar in that way, because 99 counties that was the strategy that hillary clinton had back in 2008 and that's how she sold herself. you're right about the strategy when it comes to iowa. because if they do not see you taking an interest in them, they

will turn their backs on you. but you believe this race will break late, and if you can finish in the top three in iowa then you start to draft towards new hampshire. that is your whole strategy because the money is little. >> right, the whole strategy is, we're making phone calls right now in all three states. 75% of the people say they are rile undecided. there there as you a pew poll out about a week ago and people were asked, could you name any republican candidates for president. and less than half the people could name one. it really is a very wide open race, and people are going to break late in this race, and we are building the kind of organization that can take advantage of that. and i'm convinced we are going to do very, very well. greg: iowa always brings a surprise. we saw it especially with governor huckabee. our polling finds this number one overwhelmingly is the economy, 76%. it would take the corporate tax

rate from 45% to zero. it would take the trillions of dollars parked overseas and bring it back to the u.s. what is the fine point we node to understand on how it would help the economy if u.s. dollars come home. >> i'm talking about manufacturing jobs which is really important, and paul ryan gave a good talk at the heritage foundation yesterday talking about how we have to do something to create income mobility. i've been talking about that for months. we need to create opportunities for lower skilled and semiskilled people. we need to revitalize the manufacturing sector. that's why we cut the corporate tax to zero. all the manufacturers who sent their jobs overseas now they can bring all the profit back, which right now would be taxed at 35%. they with bring it back and invest it in plant and equipment in this country that tax would be zero. it's money available to build the plants and equipments. it's profitability. we repeal regulations on manufacturers that make it

unprofitable. and manufacturing is heavily relying on energy, we make that much affordable. greg: social issues is way down the ladder when it comes to your list of pry over. quickly, why is herman cain doing so well. >> i think we've seen a lot of candidates do very well and then not do so well. what we're doing is focused on doing really well on january third not october, not july. bill: the hill wrote santorum the next flavor of the month, we'll see if that is the case. >> i'm looking forward to it. bill: maybe the month of january. >> that would be a very good month. bill: good to see you. martha: a new battle being waged over potential cuts to the pentagon. all troops are being pulled from iraq by the end of this year. it is something that he promised while campaigning for the white house. >> when i'm president we will wage the war that has to be run with a comprehensive strategy with five elements, getting out of iraq and on the right

battlefield in afghanistan and pakistan. martha: he goes onto talk about developing partnerships with other countries, to take out terrorists as well. joining is now is a former navy see, leaf favin. you heard the president, he's pulling troops out and put -lg them on the ground in afghanistan and pakistan. is that the right strategy. >> great to be here. i think it is the right strategy. it sounds controversial in the military. the tactical troops on the battlefield that have fought the war in iraq for the last eight years have seen radical security gains and they understand now the current force level there is really not maintaining security. iraqis are doing that themselves. and i think it's time for america to declare victory in iraq. that is the one thing that the president did not do last week, and that is declare victory in

iraq. martha: why do you think he didn't do that. >> it would require that he would have to go back and say he was wrong in iraq, that the strategy that he advocated was not correct. he wanted a total pull out of iraq when things weren't going well for the u.s. there, and said that we couldn't win. he didn't think that the surge would work. all those things have worked. radical security gains were made and the iraqis were able to take over and i think that's what you're seeing now is iraq telling us that they in fact are politely asking us to leave but not granting immunity to u.s. troops. they are ready to stand on their own. martha: it's an interesting point. you say that you are in opposition really to a lot of military commander's who say they want to see a secure force left on the ground in iraq, much as we have in south korea and japan for many, many years. and their fear is iran is going to go in and take advantage of that evacuate aoufplt you don't fear that? >> i don't fear that, mart that.

i think actually the opposite is true, that u.s. forces remaining in iraq actually embolden iran and empowers them. they've been able to attack our forces there with almost total eupl immunity in a tee through shiite militia groups which are in fact iranian proximate sees. a lot of u.s. servicemen have died through training and iranian weapons. the reality is we have the most expeditionary reforce in the world. we have thousands of troops anywhere in the world with our ships and aircraft in a very short period of time. proximity doesn't necessarily equal security. i think a small tkpwar a son of u.s. forces there rile is not doing much to deter iran. martha: you did three tours in iraq and you have served our country and we thank you so much for your service to our country as a former navy seal and it's great to get your insights on all of this. leif babin we thank you. it's good to have you here as well. bill: greensboro north carolina

a federal judge moments ago denying several defense motion has would call for the dismissal of campaign finance charges against john edwards. he is scheduled to be tried in january on charges that he asked at least two wealthy campaign donors to give about a million dollars in hush money, secret payments to hide his pregnant mistress as he sought the democratic nomination for the white house, that was back in 2007 and 2008. that case will proceed in january. herman cain's new web ad, what do voters think about it? have a look at this. it's a malboro light i do believe in his left hand. martha: a new search for this baby girl today. police are asking for dna sam else from baby lisa's older brothers. >> we want to make sure that we're clear that this is the type of conversation that we are only going to talk about the truth, and that they are not in any trouble.

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bill: new reaction now to a web video by the herman cain campaign featuring his campaign chief of staff mark block smoking a cigarette. the pollster and fox news reporter frank luntz had a focus group get together and react to what they saw in this web video. watch. >> i've had the privilege of being the chief of staff to herman cain and the chief operating officer of friends under mccain. tomorrow we are one day closer to the white house. i really believe that herman cain will put united back in the united states of america, and if i didn't believe that i won't be here. we've run a campaign like nobody's ever seen, but then america has never seen a candidate like herman cain. we need you to get involved because together we can do this. we can take this country back.

bill: that was madonna i think, right? you saw the response of the web video calling when you saw cain's chief of staff smoking. the red was conservative. the green was moderate. that was the group of voters as they identified themselves. it's kind of important. sorry about that. we'll get it right next time, won't we martha. martha: we sure will, bill. we want to tell you about the search for this missing 11-month-old baby girl, lisa irwin. investigators say that her two older brothers will submit to dna tests and police interviews. the family's attorney told us yesterday on the show that this is not the first time that the two boys spoke with the police. listen to what she said. >> they were interviewed on october 4th, shortly after the

police were called to the scene, the parents gave permission to the police to allow the children to be taken to a place in kansas city where specially trained interviewers were there. martha: joined by tom kanip and emery mcelvoy. let me ask you first, emery. what do you think about the decision think. want to speak to the little boys again. they say they are going to do it with trained professionals that work with children a lot. what are they looking for here. >> they are looking for anything that will give them a concrete lead where they can hopefully find the baby. it's been a while now. they don't have anything that gives them any information that is leading them to any particular suspect. the only people who know what is going on or who may have some idea is the family. as comfortable as it may be they have to speak to these boys, even though they are very

young. martha: tom, what is your take on this case? what do you think happened here? do you think the police are handling it well? >> i think the police are handling it well. my suspicion, i think what seems to fit here is that there very may well have been some sort of accident involving the child, involving at least the child's mother. i think that's what the police are after in this case. and i think that is sort of their theory of the case, and that perhaps the mother panicked, because she thought, or was negligent or reckless in some way, and perhaps got rid of the child, and then concocted this story about a disappearance. that's sort of what the defense went for with the casey anthony case although i don't think it fits so well. i think the police are looking at this. as far as them wanting to interview the children it's totally appropriate. i bet what they are trying to get out of the children is to soften them up and say, hey, did mom or dad say anything, did you see anything or did they say anything to you. martha: if the accident theory

holds true, then those boys may have seen something, because her story is that she fell asleep in bed, the boys were also in the room with her, then they all woke up and heard her screaming and they started screaming and running around the house. if there is truth to the accident theory, my gut tells me annmarie that the boys would know something. >> they want to figure out if there is some change. they did speak to them when the baby first went missing. is there going to be a change if their story because perhaps the parents are telling them you should say a certain thing, or perhaps new information has come out in between that the boys have learned of. they are going to be look for inconsistencies with their first statements to see if maybe the family is trying to concoct some stories to make excuses here for what may have happened. martha: thank you very much. good to have you both here today. there is the tip line. they need tips.

bill: they do. you wonder what a 6-year-old or an 8-year-old can provide too. martha: we hate they have to go through any of this. bill: jon scott is working on a whole bunch of of stuff on "happening now." jon: good morning to you. new numbers on the economy. wall street seems to like that along with what is happening in europe. we'll get you information on what all of this means to your family. break being news in the case of baby lisa irwin, a new conference canceled when we get conflict being reports from the family and the police. geraldo will sort it out for us. are we waging a shadow war with iran. should we be? bill: we'll see you in ten minutes. tearing up the road at 110 miles per hour. what police found behind the wheel of that car. martha: oh, my. >> being a policeman you never know what you'll see sometimes, and this was one of those

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bill: we have a lobster tail that has one state pointing the finger at another that they are responsible for poisoning their livelihood and costing them jobs. this is connecticut against new york. here is douglas kennedy on that with more. good morning, douglas. >> reporter: at one point west nile virus was a national fear, but did new york state go too far trying to stop it? >> it's not good for the environment, it's just not. >> reporter: mike has been hauling lobster pots in long island sound for more than 30 years. >> this is what is left of them. this is not normal. >> reporter: lately the

connecticut lobsterman says his pots have been empty or filled with sick lobsters, and he's blaming neighboring new york for what he calls a decade-long lobster die off. >> reporter: you're convinced that the lobsters are dying off because of a pesticide used by the state of new york. >> yes, that's correct. every summer when we get a heavy rainfall these pesticides leach into the sound like a fog bank. >> reporter: they added a pesticide to their storm drain to combat west nile virus. they say storm runoff brings lethal dozes into long island sound. 12 years ago there were 12,000 people working in the lobster industry. today there are less than 80. connecticut lobster men are asking their new york neighbors to stop using the lethal pesticide. not everyone in the empire state

associates the killing to the pesticide. a toxicology and researcher at stony brook on the new york side of the sound says this. >> there has been dated material linking the pesticide to lobster die off. >> reporter: they say it's rise in water temperatures that cause the lobster die off what. do you say to that. >> we disagree. within a week of the first rainfall it's like that, they start dying. that is not normal. >> reporter: not normal and not necessary. they say there are plenty of other pesticides that would not harm the lobsters. bill. bill: douglas kennedy thanks. on that live here in new york we'll see how that lines up. martha: if you're having a hard time sticking to your diet it may not be your weak will power. what could cause you to order the french fries instead of the salad. i know the answer. when you have diabetes...

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