i look for. i love fred smith. he's one of the best in u.s. history. >> and that is not the case of older stock picker dismissing a younger stock picker. >> davey here on fox news now. >> lost our ambition and imagination and willingness to do the thing that is build the goldenigate bridge and hoover and unleashed all of the potential in this country. >> small business owners don't agree with the president. it is not ambition but regulation. the new poll shows that is number one concern. who has it right, the president or people on the front lines. i am david. welcome to forbets on fox. we'll go with mike, elizabeth and mark and kim. we have a full house.

mike, first you, who has it right? >> small business has it right, david. look at the new dodd-franks is will killing the banking industry . coming-- look at energy. shutting two plants because of epa regulation and 400, employees it will lay off. heritage foundation david estimates that regulations extract over trillion from our economy every year. >> kim, the treasury department said the opposite. that i am quoting from jan here who works for the assistant secretary two commonly repeated misconception. regulations is holding back business investment and hiring. the white house said it is not a problem. >> no, i mean, if you think about it, corporate america raked in more than 900 billion

since the recession. larger companies have the money to hire. the problem is, there is too much economic uncertainty and doing more with less. how can convince shareholder to hire more people when they have increased profitability and skilled workers are a problem. here in silicon valley, which president obama visited over the past. >> that doesn't make him an expert. >> it surprises me there is a lack of ambition, but needless to say they need more skilled workerings. >> we need more speakerce in here. victoria after quoting one of the academics, who knows more about small business. academic in the treasury department or small business people? >> i think it is fair to say small business people. and the same surveys that show concern about excessive regulation show concern about consumer confidence and the

ability to get investment capitol. they are all issuings. i think the regulatory burden are feeding people fears about the future. look at everything that the administration does, it is aimed at picking winners and losers accident we had a few months ago, the idea to create the problem start-up usa and we are going to hire these people and they are going to stoke innovation f. you read the fine print. it was innovation in clean tech and underserved markets. if you are an entrepreneur that is red tape. >> and mark. >> and which businesses i should or not go in. >> if you are a journalist which you and the rest of us are. you go to the front lines to get to the story and front lines, 22 percent of the businesses put regulation as number one impediment. >> that's what i don't understand, david. to put it in perspective. we have had 20 years of

deregulation. deregulated airlines and trucking and utilitis and oil and gas. and it is still, businesses are complaining about too much regulation. what is the result of this been? we have higher prices and services declined and we have more concentration of business than before. and so deregulation has not brought us a whole lot and in terms was dodd-frank bill. voleker proposed a 10-page rule. but the lobbyist. >> surprise. >> it is a rule. >> okay, mark. >> that always happens when you proposed new regulatory systems like dodd-frank which is 200,000 pages of regulations and it becomes 10,000. >> the issue is not rule it is shortage of enforcement and ben

bernanke said of dodd-frank. we can't figure it out. it is way too complicated the impact. the president's own job council said rules are a problem. and looking at the red tape that small businesses have to contend with. look at 1099 rule to report good and services for small businesses of $600 and up. the city of milwaukee. you have to get a license to go out of business in milwaukee. day care in massachusetts your children have to brush their teeth after lunch. it is red tape that is strangling business and hurting job growth. >> i go back to the small businesses and they know best what is hurting their ability to grow and hire. >> i will not argue the fact that regulations have a larger affect on small business than corporations. and yet regulations are part of the economic puzzle. consumer demand is affecting all

business in our country. we have weak gdp and a portion of that is from consumer spending and you have general electric and weight watchers and all of these other companies that are hiring over seas. regulations playies a small part. >> mike, look at what the epa is doing and in the energy field they stopped a lot of jobs created in the gulf or coal mines in west virginia and projects. >> companies are shutting down coal plants and going back to weak consumer demand. in the 15 years in 2007, 64 percent of the jobs came from small businesses. and the last year has seen zero net gain in small businesses because they are overregulated. >> kim, i talked to many small banks that say the dodd-franks bill for financial institutions

is preventing them from making loan to small business. if they don't get loans, they don't hire more people. >> how much is the federal or banks getting loans for from the federal government? close to zero and they are turning around and charging. >> those are the big banks. >> hold on, kim. i have to defend the small bankings. you are talking about the big banks like morganstanly. but the small banks are getting killed? >> i don't know as much about the small as i do in larger ones. the large one needs stricter regulations. >> hold on a second. the point is, that the small banks don't have all of those lobbyist friend that is mark was talking about and cut aways that big banks do. >> that's right, david. that's why the president's own job council said exempt the maul banks. but the problem with government

rule making. you have to have burrcrats over seeing that grope and find somebody to enforce them. >> vicki go ahead. >> hold ovicki, go ahead. the banks, they need to spend a ton of money hiring lawyers and lobbyist to make sense of this stuff. eastbound e even the new york times is calling it -- it is a new trea that is driven. if you are a derivative. >> one at a time. one at a time. mike, go. >> congress writes the legislation and not the lobbyist. and they bring -- (talking all at once.) big businesses can pass along the cost but they get passed along to small business. >> guys, we have run out of time about a minute ago. and super committee democrats

are looking to save up to three trillion bucks with tax hikes and spending cuts. is history proving higher taxings are all you are going to get. cashin in is on it. and tax breaks for green companies making a come back. can you say solyndra. are taxpayerto get ripped off again? they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ [ technician ] are you busy?

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are the ones we used to build usaa bank. from free checking to credit cards to loans, our commitment to e military, veteransand their families is without equal. ♪ visit us online to learn what makes our bank so different. usaa. we know what it means to serve. >> good morning, everyone. a fox news alert. fox news now confirming a homicide bomber in afghanistan killed at least 13 american troops. this is video from kabul where u.s. officials say a van packed with explosives rammed into a nato convoy. the taliban is claiming responsibility. it is the deadliest single ground attack on foreign forces in 10 years of war in afghanistan. back at home, an eight year old autistic boy is found alive six

days after vanishing in a family hike in virginia park. he was found in a fetal position. the little boy does not speak but his father said he wandered in the woods. 6,000 volunteers and rescue crews found robert. we are glad he's at home. >> they're back. tax breaks for green companies. california just reinstating them after freezing them when solyndra bust. but our federal government is continuing to hand out tax breaks and dennis, you say all green tax energy breaks should be cut for good. >> i do. it is a flavor of the month. 30 years ago we subsidized ethanoyl . today, it is 30 or 40 billion in subsidies and ethanoyl is two and half percent of the gasoline

supply. the problem with solar and wind. the greatest test is the profit motive and the private enterprise will see a real up-side potential. i know a guy who raised $200 million in private money to work on a up for a electric car battery filling station. never mind the government. >> mark, dennis is saying we don't need public money, the private sector will do it. >> that denies history. a lot of the greatest innovation. they happened with government money involved in them and the private sector was not willing to take the risk. they are not willing to take the risk because of the commempt they didn't put a man on the moon or internet. >> they had no reason. >> it was government investment that started that and even

calculators, it was government investment and there needs to be a cooperation with both partis and i don't agree that the government shouldn't be involve would here. >> so sad that you go back to 1969 for a man on the moon to be. >> hold on, gang. there are other places like china, they are doing it cheaper. >> china has a lot of government subsidies and i hear what you are saying dennis, we have tarp, it gave money to the tarps with provision and warranties. i don't know if taxpayers want a warranty in solyndra it is free money that is aimed at very fragile, frail and companies that are on the brink. do we want that? ? and what is happening, vc guys know it. they are doing subsidy start ups that take advantage of the

government subidies to line their pockets and doing it in california. >> morgan, the fact is, right now, there is a shake up going on in the solar trea in the united states. a lot of companies are going down. solyndra, a lot of people could see the hand writing on solyndra long before the president offered his or our help in ternals of taxpayer money. >> let's let solyndra die a not so sunny death. and in california tax breaks that equal 104 million. that is peanuts compared to the federal and tax break. even for traditional oil and natural gas companies that might change with president obama's new legislation. we are seeing tax breaks everywhere. you want to go after tax breakings. go after google and 2.4 percent tax break. >> maybe we should go in a flat tax and forget about all of the tax breaks. >> i agree. >> and nonprofit entities are

good in inventing things and comes to innovation you have to rely on the private sector. solar protect pro jects that get taxpayer money. they are not inventing anything. it is going out of the window because technology is changing so fast. they are running huge loss and they have gotten money, let's face it. people that work at these companies and run them are -- >> there is a lot of political influence in these loans and kim, despite all of the facts, there is 17 brand new sights that are announced on thursday in six states that the government will go ahead full speed on. >> it is a great idea. you can't if one kid throse a spit ball, you can punish the entire class and keep them from recess. we need to be more discriminating in the money that they invest in terps of the

green technologies. but the companies that are trying to make the work environment healthier and more environmentally friendly in place of the employee it is great to offer them tax credits. but here is the -- >> no, no. >> finish your point quickly kim. >> basically they need to make sure they are looking at cost savings in the next five years. >> the problem is government has no incentive to be efficient with taxpayer money. five department of energy guarantees are rubber stamps that. is a problem. >> coming up next, folkings. one thing most gop candidates and super committee member have in common. they are all missing the private fix to make sure we retire with more money. that solution after the break.

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>> unveiling plan to safe social security. and plus cutting costs to

>> two new plans to reform social security. senator max baccus said we can cut cost by limiting pay increases and rick perry said give americans a choice to put mon neprivate retirement accounts. forget reforming it and privatize all of it. >> i say privatize all of it uk and chile and sweden did it at a great success. put in your own account instead of having congress getting their

mittos your social security to spend on whatever they want. they put it in government note bonds. you are more efficient than the u.s. government in investing your money. >> mark, privatization your worst nightmare. >> i don't like it, david. we turn it over to the people on wall street that allowed my 401 k to go down 40 or 60 percent and the cause of the financial melt down. so i am supposed to trust wall street with this? i don't think it is a good idea at all. >> victoria what do you think? >> trust washington. and this is a noble interesting that we put it up now. democrat governor jerry brown is suggesting similar for state pension funds. giving young people a choice to opt in to private social security. but what makes big cost savings

is not privatization but increasing the retirement age. that's what we need to debate in washington. >> morgan, herman cain went further. he point to chile. they privatize 30 years ago and they have had an annualized return of nine percent and that is including inflation adjustments. we get one or two percent. why not privatize the whole thing. >> i am hesitant to do that. just looking at 401 kings and ira's have gone down a trillion dollars . a lot of americans don't know what it means to assume risk in the market. >> aren't we alouped to decide for ourselves what to do with our money. >> no. >> and to transition over we are looking at a five trillion cost to do that. that is a heck of a lot. >> private versus government. mark said he rather trust the

government. tarp, wall street paid back at a government. government is 120 billion on fanny and freddie. private is smarter than government. and private switched over to 401 k pension plans. i rest my case. >> and maybe leave it to your heirs. and reports are out that president clinton wants to privatize. but the monica leninsky. >> i am open to it and hesitant because some of thed is its that are done about social security versus the pensions in tax tax. lower income people are less advantaged by the systems that are in place there. at the end of the day they will need more hand could you tell us. >> learning from the net flickings price hike nightmare and slashing prices to drag

customers in privates. their tocks are about to get a boost because of it.

>> cutting prices to attract customers. those are the companies that will make money for investors. >> dividend stocks great over seas and solid cash floor. >> you like it. >> they are struggling with high commodity. >> you like dollar general? >> i do less economy means more dollar store spending. >> you like the dollar stores. >> it just hit a 52 week high. i say wait on that one. and the u.s. retailers. my pick is target. >> i like target for the high end walmart shopper and i like