where more news is always on >> i am chris wallace reporting from austin, texas where republican presidential candidate rick perry looks to relaunch his campaign. >> with a new plan to reform taxes and cut spending, the one time frontrunner tries to reinvigorate his run for the white house. in a fox news sunday exclusive we will talk with the texas governor about getting america back to work. immigration, current policies and whether he is going to skip some of the gop debates. rick perry only on fox news sunday. >> president obama takes his new message for a test drive. we will ask our sunday panel if we can't wait is a new way to govern for campaign slogan. power player of the week tries

to help national leaders do the right thing. all right now on fox news sunday. >> hello again from fox news. this time reporting from austin, texas in the texas state history museum. we have come to the state capital to talk with a former frontrunner in the race for presidential nomination trying to relaunch his campaign. we continue our series 2012 one-on-one interviews with texas governor rick perry and governor welcome backs to fox news sunday. >> welcome to texas. hope you have enjoyed your stay. >> we have so far. you have dropped in the polls from 38 percent when you got in in august to a low of 6 percent in one of the polls this week. your new campaign staffers talked about trying to rei bo boot -- reboot perri 2.0. >> for the first 8 weeks we were

travelling across the country shaking hands introducing ourselves people knew two things i was the governor of the state of texas that i had a beautiful smart wife. in the past two weeks they have got to put the meat on the bone if you will. we laid out our jobs and energy plan 1.2 million americans back to work opening up our federal lands and waters for energy exploration getting this country back truly secure from hostile countries that we are buying foreign oil from. then we laid out just this last week, people are just getting their arms around our cut and balance and grow plan where we talk about that 20 percent flat tax where we talk about how to cut the spending, how we grow this economy. now i think when americans look at that they are going to think not only is this a great plan this fellow has the record of the governor of texas for ten years of doing it. that's what we need in the white house to have a courage to stand in the gap and put these tax

reforms in place. >> why should voters some have been pag paying attention. we had 6 million watch the last fox debate. why should voters disregard the last two months the poor performance in the debate and some immigration, hpv vaccine that didn't turn out to be as conservative as you might have hoped? >> i readily admit i am not the best debater in the world. i may end up being a pretty good debater before it is all said and done. when they look at the record when they look at what we have done nobody has been stronger on immigration than i have. if you want to look at whether or not governors have to deal with tough and hard issues because of federal government absolutely failed in securing the border we have to build with that i readily respect that and wouldn't tell any state they need to do a particular thing on that as we did in the state of texas. but whether it's putting texas ranger recon teams $400 million

on that border vetoing driver's license bill for illegals whether it is passing a voter identification bill before you can vote there's not anybody on that stage that is any tougher and right on on the immigration issues than i. >> let's talk about the debates. your staff indicated this week that you are going to skip some but the news overnight is you have signed up for the next five debates because november into early december but you told bill o'reilly riley this week that you thought it was a mistake to participate in any of them, why? >> i said 18 debates i think is way too many debates frankly if i it is an incredible amount of time and preparation and what have you. i like to get out and talk to people where you have time to play out your ideas. we have a great debater a smooth politician in the white house rig right now that's not working out good for america. if you want to know how somebody

is going to perform in the future take a look at their past. as governor tof the state of texas we do more than any other in the state of texas. people sitting around in the coffee table today the kitchen table they are going how are we going to get the country back working again. i have laid out the plan and i've the courage to gput that into place. >> we are going to drill down to your plan in a moment. i want to focus on the debates what i have heard and e-mails i got from a lot of conservative voters is they say okay maybe he's not the greatest debater but we need somebody next fall who will debate 100 million people watching that will make the case against barack obama. they worry based on your performance you are not that man? >> i am not worried a bit that i will be able to stand on the stage with barack obama andrea a very bright line a real contrast between an individual who lost 2 and a half million jobs for this

country someone who is signal to go our opponents when we are going to pull out of a particular war zone, an individual who has taken an experiment with the american economy and turned it into an absolute frankenstein experience. i think i will be able to stand on that stage andrea a clear contrast with barack obama. >> you did draw up a major tax reform plan. let's drill down into the details of it. you give people the choice 20 percent flat tax or the system most people are going to figure it out and decide to go to the plan that they pay the fewer taxes. your campaign says and they sent us to a private accounting firm it would mean $4.7 trillion less in revenue over the first 6 years from 2014 to 2020. doesn't the perry plan blow a

hole in the deficit? >> you have to look at the spending cuts and dynamics of the growth that goes on here. you can't take one little piece of it and say here's the plan. it's not. it gives people a good option to be able to do their taxes on a postcard taking that 20 percent flat tax and deducting mortgage, deducting charitables and deducting local taxes 12,500 for each dependent subtracting it and sending it in. literally on a postcard. it is that simple to put it on that postcard right there. then people have the confidence. people have the confidence the job creators. this plan is about getting people back to work putting the confidence back and the american entrepreneur who knows the regulations are not going to be there the tax burdens. you know who will hate this more

than anybody? it's the washington lobbyists that have been carving out all of these corporate tax loopholes they have been manipulating our tax code. make it simple. put those guys out of business. i guarantee you that is the type of approach that americans are looking for, a simple tax code, corporate tax rate of 20 percent as well bring those corporate tax proceed back from offshore at a 5.25 percent and we will balance that budget in 2020. nobody says it's going to be easy, but we need a president who has a commitment to that who has a track record of doing that and i have. >> all right. couple of quick questions. you talk about simplicity. but the fact is a lot of people would have to calculate taxes the old way. they have to calculate their taxes with the alternative minimum tax calculate taxes with the new 20 percent. far from being simple. you might have to calculate your taxes it would be hard for my

cat ant to figure out which way will be the cheapest. >> i don't think that's right at all. i think american also know they are going to take the 20 percent flat tax and deductions and they are not going to have to go out to an accountant or lawyer. there may be those who want to ask accountant and lawyers. that's the great thing about the choice here. this will change the irs as we know it today. >> let's discuss growth. your campaign says static scoring the numbers and assumptions as they are almost 5 trillion less in revenue over the first six years. your campaign says you have good economic growth that will be a trillion dollars more. here's the problem with that. everybody agrees that if you lower taxes you do increase economic growth. even conservative think tanks like the heritage foundation say almost never do tax cuts pay for themselves. so you still end up -- you may get increased economic growth

but you still end up with lower revenue. >> there's nothing wrong with lower revenue. i think americans are ready for washington, d.c. to quit spending money. >> but we have a deficit problem. >> we will payoff our deficit. our plan balances it's budget in 2020 and we will payoff that debt. >> no one else on that stage is laying on a plan. mitt romney nibbles around the edges. he leaves the rates where they are. mr. cane's plan creates two new sources of revenue. i don't want more revenue in washington, d.c.'s hands. i want more revenue in the private sector job creator's hands and american citizens out there. i guarantee they will make the money. >> we are going to get to the spending cuts. that's an important part of it. i want to ask you one more thing about the tax plan that's tax fairness. almost everyone who looks at the plan says the people who do the

best in this plan in terms of a tax cut are the wealthy. according to one analysis up here in the screen a family of four earning 425,000 dollars would see tax bill drop from 91 thousand to 46.4. almost a 50 percent cut. this is what you said the other day. >> for those at the top it is hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of dollars for them. but i don't care about what. what i care about is them having the dollars to invest in their companies. >> question. when the rich and by all the studies of income inequality when the rich are getting richer and middle class are struggling why don't you care about tax fairness? >> everybody gets a tax cut here. everybody gets a tax cut. >> but the rich get a much bigger tax cut. >> those who have money put more into their businesses, they hire

more people. that's what we need to be focused on. how do you give incentives to the job creators in this country so those 14 million that don't have jobs out there have the shot at having the dig commnity taking care of their family. the idea of class warfare, that's what we are talking here. you have the president, some people out there that want to talk about tax warfare the rich are going to have more money and what have you, i am interested in individuals who are going to be able to invest in this country and have the confidence an environment taken created. they are going to be able to keep more of what they work for. when they do that they will invest in companies and create jobs. that's what this debate ought to stay on not create class warfare. >> you are saying that yes, the wealthy the job creators as you call them they will get bigger tax cuts under the perry plan man the middle class. >> i want to see people

investing. i am not for class warfare. if somebody wants to push the class warfare issue and divide this country i am for bringing people together to create jobs and give americans a better chance to take care of families. >> let's turn to tendispending. you are going to cap spending at 18 percent of the economy gdp, gross domestic product which is a level we haven't seen since 1967. how on earth are you going to do that? >> by cutting the spending. americans are stiick and tired washington's business as usual. they are sick and tired of seeing hundreds of thousands of federal employees being put on the tax rolls if they are having to pay the jobs of stimulus dollars $4 trillion worth of debt under this president's watch. practically no jobs being created. they are looking for someone who has the courage to say here's how we are going to fix social

security. if you are on it if it is approaching it will be there for you. give our young people the truth and give them options of being able to have a private ask the or whatever it is maybe fwooes ratcheting up the age of which people become eligible for. americans are looking for some ideas of how to get out of this mess that washington has put us in and spending cuts is one of them. do away with ear marks. clearly stand up and say pull out the details and if you have earmarks coming my way they will never make it into law. >> but according to the congressional budget office to go down to 18 percent gdp you would have to make cuts depending on the year between $700,000,000,001,000,000,000,000 a year. that's roughly a quarter of the federal budget. you talk and you said here you have to have the courage to do it. you got to make hard choices. like what? how many programs that people now count on not waste and praud

people count on you are saying president perry i am sorry you will have to do without. >> let me share with you one place you can go tom kober has a be piece of work called back in black. i believe it's $9 trillion worth of reductions. i hope folks will take a look at that. let me give you one example. you can take the department of education and you can put the elementary and secondary programs together and cut those in half and send half of that back to the state save 25 trillion right there. >> 25 trillion? >> 25 billion. >> that still leaves you with $975 billion. >> i understand but you asked me for an example. >> we have so many programs in government that aren't recreating jobs all they are doing is creating government jobs. americans are sick of that. they want someone who will stand up and say listen we are going to cut the size of spending we are going to cut the size of these programs. is it going to be anybody that stands up and says this is all

going to be painful you might want to consider them to be suspect you better believe it's hard. in texas the last legs of legislature we cut spending for the first time since world war ii. people said the world will come to an end. you have to have a president who has the courage to stand up and say the future of this country demands we have less spending going on and i will do that. >> the purpose of all of this is to put america back to work to create jobs. no question about it you have the strong record creating jobs 40 percent of all of the new jobs in the last four years are in the state of texas talk about that in your first tv commercial. let's take a look. >> as president i will create 2 and a half million new jobs. i know something about that. >> governor here's what i don't understand about the 2 and a half million jobs. 2 and a half million jobs is terrible. that wouldn't be nearly enough

for the first four years of an administration. we would roughly need 6 million jobs in the first four years to stay even with population growth. 2 and a half million jobs the unemployment rate would increase. jimmy carter made 10 million million jobs in the first year. >> when we have lost 2 and a half million jobs in this country there's another state this created a million jobs for people to say that's not enough. any job at this particular point in time helps. but you give con dpins to the american people. give you a good example. bringing the money from offshores 2.5 percent in my plan that will create according to the american chamber of commerce that will bring 360 billion. we have to give americans the confidence they are going to be able to keep more of what they work for and if the regulations

that are strangling businesses small banks would dodge franco bam ma care spending that is going to give the confidence to job kree tierts. >> 2 and a half million jobs don't even keep pace with the population growth. our unemployment rate would increase under this goal. >> i don't believe that for a minute. that is absolutely false on its face. americans will get back to work. are we going to make some claim and say it's going to create 10.5 million jobs without -- we would be having the same conversation that's not realistic. i will tell you one thing you give this plan a chance, you put americans where they know they are getting paid income tax on a postcard they are going to have those kind of cuts they are going to have a balanced budget amendment to the united states constitution in four years they will go back to work. manufacturing jobs will come back to this country. the idea that i am going to let people talk this plan down for the sake of just having an

intellectual discussion is not correct. i know what happened. in texas we have seen it and americans are dying for a president that understands create ago environment where job creators know they can risk their capitol and have return on investments they will go create jobs and lots of them. >> what do you think of president obama's plan to pull all u.s. troops out of iraq by the end of the year? >> any time as commander-in-chief. i wore the uniform of our country as a pilot in the united states air force. i am a commander-in-chief 20 plus thousand texas national guard troops we loaned to the federal government on a regular basis. the idea that a commander-in-chief would stand up and signal to the enemy a date certain of which we are going to pull our troops out i think is irresponsible. talking to your commanders in the field and you need to be working with the experts who understand what's going on. we need to finish our mission in iraq and afghanistan. you better believer i want our kids home as soon as we can and

safe but to give that signal that we are going to pull them out is really bad public policy and more importantly it's putting our lives in jeopardy. >> in both iraq and afghanistan the president says there have got to be limits to how long we spend building those other nations and there are so many problems here at home. >> having the conversation with your generals. when you think about what this president has done he fired one general because he didn't like what they said about him. didn't listen to other generals on other issues. from my perspective he has lost his standing from the standpoint of being a commander-in-chief and having any idea what's going on. he's making mistakes that are putting our kids that are in there. future issues dealing with middle east or south china city with our allies, putting all of that in jeopardy because of this unwavering -- i should say this

wavering or aimless approach to foreign policy which he has. >> you said recently that the federal government doesn't have any need to be subsidizing energy, correct? >> that's correct. i think the federal government needs to be completely out of the subsidiary dags or tax credit side on the energy. >> i understand. you have done it in this case. why did you write a letter to the secretary ry general in washington urging him to approve a federal loan guarantee for an energy company in texas. >> i don't recall which one that is. >> i will put it up on the screen. july 29, 2008, you wrote the bush administration i am writing to express my strong support for the proposed nuclear power generating facility. this is nrg. sounds like you were asking him to do what to say he shouldn't do. >> we were asking that

particular time for the federal government to support the nuclear power industry in the state of texas or across the country from that sfientd. b -- standpoint. but from a general standpoint any type of federal dollars flowing in to these industries we think it's bad public policy whether it's the ethanol side and oil and gas. >> why did you ask him to give the money? >> i changed my position from the standpoint of having any desire to have the federal government. i have learned some things over the course of the years what i have learned is the federal government by and large you keep them out of these issues particularly on the energy side i think that's the best position for us to take as americans today. let the markets figure it out. are you going to have federal government making some impact on the nuclear energy side from the standpoint of research and

development or having places to be able to deal with these spent fuels and reprocess, yes. but giving straight up money to energy, do away with it. >> what do you think of mitt romney? >> i don't really know mitt romney well enough to make a statement. we served together as governors back early -- >> come on. i am not talking about whether you would like to have dinner with him but you have a view of his public record. >> obviously. he's a competitor. i happen he to believe laying out the differences in our records is very important. i have been a consistent conservative. you go back through my record for 20 plus years i have been a consistent conservative. always always been in favor of the second amendment protecting second amendment. i have always been pro-life. i have always been a fiscal conservative. mitt has been on both side of the issues. he has been for a ban on guns in massachusetts, he has been for pro abortion, he has been

supporting gay rights and now he's on the other side of those issues. but from the standpoint of having different positions, we certainly do. we are a very, very different from the standpoint of consistency on those issues that i have just mentioned. >> you have just brought in several new staffers who quite frankly have a history of aggressive, negative campaigning. for instance they were involved in the rick stock campaign in florida which is a tough campaign. how hard are you prepared to go after mitt romney in this gop primary fight. >> i don't get confused with telling the truth with someone not to say that's negative. if we are telling the truth about someone, the truth is the truth. whether it hurts your feelings or not. >> you have got a little bit of a problem here. i want to put up a new poll. this is the new iowa des moines register poll just out this morning. it shows herman cain and romney

way ahead of the field in low 20s and you back in 5th place at 7 percent. isn't herman cain's standing in your way in terms of a one-on one battle with mitt romney? >> i as people of iowa or new hampshire or florida or any of the early states look at the plan. i think that's just what they are doing. this race isn't settled at all. as they look and say who is it that will layout a plan to get america working when they look at mitt nibbling around the energy and herman cain and they look at our plan it really will get america working and then they take and know that there is a ten- year record of being a solid conservative on issues whether it's immigration or physical conservatism or social issues i feel comfortable where we will be on election day. >> campaigns can make candidates

stronger. i want you to be honest here. you had a rough two months. what have you learned in these last two months? >> the thing i have learned is you pace yourself. that's not a sprint. it's a marathon. we got in late. we worked awfully hard for those first eight plus weeks to go raise the money. we had a 17 plus million dollar 47 day fundraising push. it is always good to kind of come off the battle line for a few days and catch your breath. that's what i learned is don't sprint it. just take a nice easy run at it and continue to stay focused. take your message to the people. i think that the end of the day people in iowa, new hampshire all of those early states are going to take a look at this and say this is a guy who has a record he has plan at getting america working he has been

consistent all of his life. >> you are in the hole they are up in the 20s you are down to 20 percent. how confident are you that you can get out of that hole and turn this thing around? >> i am confident we will be out there competing. we have a war chest that allows us to get that message out there. we have a great team put together across the country. we have not jurts peopst people ground but we have great volunteers. i feel confident as people take a look they focus in on what is important about getting america working again they are going to look at the plans and look at the candidates and look at the records and go you know what? rick perry is who needs to be leading this country to get us out of this mess that washington, d.c. has gotten us in. >> governor perry want to thank you for connollying in and asking the -- answering the questions today. we will see you on the campaign trail, sir. >> see you, sir. thank you. >> with governor perry's

appearance we have now interviewed all of the major republican candidates in our 2012 one-on-one series except mitt romney. haez not appeared on this program or any sunday talk show since 2010. we invited him this week but his campaign says he is still not ready to sit down for an interview. president obama does it his way working around congress asking for his agenda. we will continue fox news sunday from austin, texas. news sunday" from austin, texas.

we can no longer wait for congress to do its job. they need help now. where congress won't act, i will. >> chris: president obama launching his new campaign to work around congress and take executive actions to help the middle class. time for our sunday group back in washington. brit houston fox news senior political analyst. mara liasson, dana perino and juan williams. the president took a series of actions on a west coast swing and announced a plan to help people in danger of foreclosure and help students paying off loans, tax credits to try to get some veterans hired. brit, it reminds me of the buy the sized initiatives that bill

clinton took in 1996 which helped him a lot to give him a sense that he was looking out. do you think this could h help barack obama? >> i think it could. it is unclear how much difference any of the programs will make. he is basically just making he is basically making adjustments with the programs on the books trying to make benefits more accessible to people. a lot of people might appreciate that. i don't think in the scheme of things that these are large enough initiatives to make any real difference. certainly not going to have any effect on the big burden he carries. the economy was booming the economy is not booming. it doesn't appear it will be booming. if he can't do anything to turn that around i think he's working around the edges. let's follow up on that idea of working around the edges. the analysts have looked at this and the real life practical effects of a lot of these

measures the president took which are executive actions it's not legislation are fairly minuscule. according to one analysis helping students with student loans would mean something like 4-8 dollars a week. the question is does that matter? do the facts matter or is the symbolism i am with the middle class and congress isn't is that what really matters? >> clearly it's the latter. i think the white house understands the president doesn't have within his power the ability to change the trajectory of the economy. they assume the economy we have today is the economy they are going to have on election day. the latest economic muse shows that maybe it won't get any worse. that's probably the most they can hope for. when presidents are staple meed by congress and can't get their agenda through they turn to executive orders. the difference between obama and clinton this isn't a substitute for a big agenda. he couldn't get passed. now he's trying to do this. the goal of the white house

convinced people the president has a plan and republicans blocked him from doing more. >> there was another interesting development on the president's western campaign swing. he made remarks at a fundraiser in san francisco. let's watch. >> we have lost our ambition, our imagination and willingness to do the things that build the golden gate bridge and hoover dam and unleashed all of the potential in this country. >> that is after the president a couple weeks ago talking about the country getting a little soft competitively. is there any reason is there a political strategy behind in effect talking down the country? >> not one that i can see particularly when it comes on the wake of the death of steve jobs who is one of the best innovators in history maybe world history if we live long

enough to understand that. in the 2010 elections if you go back to mid term president obama there was a check on his legislative power. because the democrats ran the executive branch and congress. they got everything they wanted done. healthcare, the banking regulations and the stimulus bill. it was in 2010 the people said i am not going for that. going forward if they look at some of the things like the free trade agreement they have been wanting that for a long time. they sent them up to congress get them done and what happens? president obama at the last minute canceled the rose garden ceremony in order to do the iraq announcement. anything that congress does they don't even want to give them any credit for that. then you look at the bigger picture. i don't think most people disagree americans have gotten involved they disagree on the reason and remedy for moving forward. >> juan? >> i think dana is right. most americans think there's aproblem here. most think the country is heading in the wrong direction.

the president's agenda in saying the con needs that vision the sense of we can do it we can over come goes back to the idea that he wants to pass more spending bills on insfrau truck tour which -- infrastructure. they will take up the reluctance to republicans. this week we had polls fox news polls that came out that said 52 percent of americans think that president po bam ma h-- preside has job ideas but he is building blocked by congress. when you see the president going out he is campaigning against a do nothing congress. again look at poll numbers. president's approval rating is in the mid 40s. but you look at the congress' approval rating it's down there at 9 percent. republicans and congress about 20, 22 percent. so their approval rating is half of his. so he decides you know what, you may not like me. you may not like some of the things that i stand for but

remember you like congress even less. and you will vote for me if i am running against them. >> when the voters go into the voting booth they are not going to see one of them that says one line president obama the next line congress. it's republicans and congress reigning against a nominee who will not be necessarily burdened with the record of congress who will have an independent approach to all of this who by the time he or she finishes the race on the republican side and is crowned at the convention and so forth and is dressed newspaper presidential garb will look stronger than any other candidates look right now. >> marah i want to go back to the question of the do nothing congress. we only have 30 seconds here. it seems to me a lot of voters aren't going to see geo bam ma couldn't get his agenda through because congress blocked him they are going to say he got his agenda through the healthcare

reform and stimulus we don't like it we don't hi it worked. >> he cannot run against republican congress in 2012 election. what he is going to try to do is layout a big vision for the future what he would do if he had a second term and contrast that gengs the republican nominee and the white house will argue that person wants to take us back and reenact the policies that got us into the poll -- mess we are in in the first place. numbers are lower that were any congress that has ever been. it won't be the foil for him once the campaign gets being. >> we have to take a break here. up next the republican presidential race rolls on involves mitt romney and herman cain have to walk back campaign misstatements. when we return from the texas state history museum in austin. [ male announcer ] this is coach parker... whose non-stop day starts with back pain...

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>> i believe based on what i read the world is getting warmer. number two i believe humans contribute to that. i think it's important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases that may well be significant contributors to the climate change and global warming that you are seeing. >> my view is we don't know what is causing climate change on this planet and the idea of spending trillions of dollars to try to reduce co2 emissions is not the right course for us. >> mitt romney's apparent flip flop this week on global warming. we are back with the panel we

would agree his biggest problem is his reputation as a flip flopper. he seemed to have a bad week. as you saw seem to do change his position from what he said earlier on global warming and the need to control greenhouse gas emissions and whether he sports the john kasich the ohio governor's plan to limit collective governing for workers. how big of a problem is this? >> i think it's his single biggest problem apart from the fact that because of the flips or because of the positions he's flipping from or to the left of where the core of the republican party is people don't trust him as a conservative. people usually like it if you change positions and come toward their positions. you only are allowed a certain number of flips before they

doubt your character. he reached his quota a while back. these fresh ones are over the limit i think they hurt and i don't think the fact that he is fliping in the direction that republicans alike will help very much because edge they don't trust him. >> marah, one of romney's rivals governor -- former governor john huntsman of utah said this week you could tell he was jumping on it he called him a perfectly lubricated weather vain on the major issues of the day. we knew as brit mentioned romney had problems back in 2008 on his switches on gay marriage and gun rights and abortion. is he still vulnerable on this? >> i think he is although the last time around was much more on social issues he had to make a big issue to show he is social conservative. the race is about his strong suit the economy and creating

jobs. i think it is a problem for him president question is this an impediment to him getting the nomination. the question right now in the republican race is it going to become a two-man race. is he going to be able to revooifr his plan enough to challenge romney or does he have a relatively unimpeded pass to the nomination? i think that question depends a lot on rick perry and what he can do. it is a cliche to say you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. >> there's an important name we are leaving out of this that is the frontrunner in this race herman cain. let's puts up the des moines register poll. there you see it. it's a statistical dead heat herman cain at 23 percent romney at 22 percent well ahead of the rest of the field.

the question is herman cain for real? >> his numbers show it in the poll numbers but he raised 5 million in one month. even this week his campaign said we have to slow the pace down a little bit. they have fwooive debates in th month of november. what is interesting to me in that poll is michelle bachmann having won the straw poll two months ago is down 8 percent in iowa and down 3 percent nationally. it still remains fluid you have to wonder if some of the candidates like santorum huntsman and backm bachmann can they keep going? >> herman cain had to handle his own damage control this week trying to explain again and try to disavow those comments he made earlier in which he seemed to suggest that in some cases he

supported family choice when it comes to abortion. >> i use the word choice talking about a specific situation that he was trying to pigeon me hold on that is what they used to try to come after me. i am pro-life from conception end of story. >> canes staff tried to blame that on over scheduling, fatigue. said that it led to a couple of gaps on this and other areas and they were going to scale back his schedule. how much trouble is he in for those statements and are voters because he's not a professional politician willing to cut him some slack? >> bingo. i think that's the answer. for people like me, you all of us here on the panel we are kind of baffled this man's success. if you interview him and ask him tough questions, you have had the experience with right of return we go on to abortion.

you can go on to the number of issues we have the 999 plan which is now a 909 plan. this stuff even from a conservative point of view doesn't make sense. but people like it. the branding is terrific. 999 is the standout policy initiative of the entire gop campaign thus far. herman cain i think almost as a snub to mitt romney is described as authentic. he has compassion for conservative positions and someone they believe can take the vice to president obama. looks like grass-roots find him to be the charmer. it is stunning to me if you look at remember man cane he has lasted this long. everybody talks about oh, well you know everybody has a moment in the sunlight. it was michelle bachmann as he was talking about for a while even donald trump had a moment

in the sunlight. remember man cane once he bumped up he stayed up. this is what the iowa polls showed i am stunned his success. the question is does he have the money. does he have the campaign structure. it went viral. it was so popular. you can't tell me if i can smoke or can't smoke. it is over reaching government. right now he is on a role and i don't -- the establishment doesn't see it but apparently the voters see it. >> thank you all we have to leave it there. plenty more to talk about. thank you panel see you next week. check out panel includes where the group picks up on the discussion on the web site. up next as we continue from the state capital of austin texas, our power player of the week. copd makes it hard to breathe,

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>> and we are back reporting from austin. he spoke at the funeral for ronald reagan and he officiated at the burial of john f. kennedy, jr. he calls it a front row seat to history and he is our power player of the week. >> there's an old saying sometimes god puts us on our backs in order to get us to look up. >> he is chaplain of the u.s. senate who opens each session with a prayer. >> lord bless our senators in their labors today. >> but he does so much more. he runs 4 bible study groups and

acts as pastor to the senators staff and their families 7,000 people. >> the apostle paul in phillipians chapter 4 said there are saints in caesar's household. >> part of it is private counseling. >> do senators come to you with real private issues? >> yes. things that if i told you i would have to kill you. (laughter) >> senators also seek his advice on policy especially when it comes to ethical issues such as the 2005 case of whether to remove terry schiavo's feeding tubes. >> pat, what's your take on the schiavo issue? >> will you tell them what you think? >> my position is nonpartisan and nonsectarian but it doesn't mean i have to put my brain in neutral. >> some questioned whether opening the senate with a prayer violates the separation of church and state. >> he has no doubts.

>> there has been uninterrupted prayer since 1789. >> if the senate can begin test day in prayer why can't a public school? >> i personally think we probably made a mistake by removing prayers from our public schools. >> chaplain usually asks god for wisdom. this summer as the debt ceiling debate dragged on his prayers became more urgent. >> we are weary from the struggle. tempted to throw in the towel. >> they were getting a little more intense but that's the way i felt. i poured out my heart to god. his mother earned $6 a day as a made. she gave her kids $0.05 for each scripture they could recite until he recited the entire book

of genesis from memory. he became chief of navy chaplains before coming to the senate in 2003. it is a remarkable story for a kid from the projects. but there was always a plan. >> when i was 8 years of age my brother brought home a record. i played it over and over again until i memorized it. >> it was the senate chaplain peter marshall. >> then follow him. >> never walk into this building without a sense of wonder and without a sense that this was my destiny. >> amen. >> praise the lord. >> chaplain black was elected to his post when republicans elected to the senate. he has stayed on with democrats in charge. in these days of congressional gridlock he is one of the few things the senate can agree on. we will be right back with a

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>> chris: that is it for today. >> that's it for today. our thanks to the great folks of austin and the history museum for all of their help. we are heading back to washington but have a great week. see you next fox news