what's up? >> is this women's basketball? >> oh, my god, the game of the century. >> the game of the century, really? tigers or crimson tide? let's go to andy levy for a pre game report. >> thanks, greg. coming up, all of the latest herman cain news as the story of alleged sexual harassment feels like day number 999. and has america become a less civil place? stick around for the answer, jerks. and finally a manhattan man sues his wedding photographer over what he says were lousy pictures and missed events. wait until you hear the shocking details. that is going into the tease hall of fame. greg? >> thank you, andy. >> happy matthew mcconaghey's birthday.

>> it is an amazing day. >> what do you plan on getting him? >> i am not sure, greg. what do you get the man who has it all. >> he probably gave you something because that is the kind of guy he is. >> haze so true. and he would -- that's so true. and he would tell you not to call him mr. mcconaghey. he would tell you with a little laugh and a twinkle in his eye. >> i remember that summer in the hamptons. that's what he said. >> oh, man, remember that? everyone else inside in their man made beds, losing themselves in their television scpi phones and out there with nature. never seen him happier. >> and then he gave mouth to mouth with that manatee jie. he named him matthew mcmanatee. >> trans sended species. >> when aliens make contact with earth, i hope it is with matthew. he would make them feel welcome. >> let's welcome our guests.

>> she is so hot that burning coals try to walk across her. i am here with brooke goldstein, the founder of something called the children's rice institute. we don't know what that is. and the director of the law fair project. and he is so sharp he makes the sword swallowers drool. bill schulz is off tonight cleaning his boxcar. filling in for him is the swaw me of commis' john devore. and he is enjoyed the most. our new york editorial writer. no pinch today. weird coincidence when bill is out. let's go to the first story. don't answer. despite the scandal he is still the man-tle. herman cain is a front-runner in the gop race with the latest washington news poll showing him virtually tied with mitt romney or ritt-momney as i like to call him.

and seven out of 10 say the reported allegations do not matter when picking a candidate. meantime on friday the actual day. they accused cain of a series of matters. quote, they see no value in that. the super pushers released- released an ad. it is kind of long, but worth it. like a book. >> they can't argue with herman cain. they can't argue with herman cain on a policy. what do they do? >> now we are getting the high-tech lynching of a beautiful man, herman cain. >> what is known as the mainstream media goes for the ugliest, racial stereo types they can to attack a black conservative. >> they put him down. and that's what they do.

they can't talk about the issue, so they do that. >> i think they need to get off the symbolic crack pipe. >> i would assume he is either socially ignorant or playing games to get votes. >> it is very hard to comment on somebody who is so denied intelligence. >> this is a national disgrace. it is a high-tech lynching for upitty blacks who in anyway think to themselves that it is a message that unless you are to an old order you will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured rather than hung from a tree. >> i think that was an attack on liberals, john. but should cain be going after the left or someone else? red eye has uncovered exclusively the source of all of the leaked allegations.

>> and his poll numbers were rising. brooke, welcome to the program. you look delightful as always. is mr. cain being targeted unfairly, and if so why? jill i think the compare -- >> i think the comparison to clarence thomas is immature. there is an obvious distinction. there were fbi documents that were leaked. there were people testifying under oath about every last detail. when it comes to cain we have a campaign bump. it is completely immature. and if this is the best they can do attacking the credibility, i am not worried at all. >> i know you have serious issues with herman cain which you have discussed here many times. but the scandal doesn't seem to be damaging him. clearly there is something indestructible about this man.

he is intensely likable. >> he is. there is no question about that. the thing that really concerns me about this isn't there is no allegations that i have no reason to think that, but if you are running for president of the united states of america and you have a couple of sexual harassment complaints, how are you not ready for that to be asked, and why do you expect it to come from an opposition research? there might have an a settlement. that's just insane. if you are applying for a job you would know that much less running for president. >> i disagree and i will go to you robert because you did this with your hands which means you agree with him. here is the thing. i don't think he expected to go this far, nor did he create a legitimate political organization because he is not that kind of guy. doesn't this reflect the fact he is not a politician and he did not go out of his way? politicians hire their own private investigators to bet themselves.

he didn't do that. he is not a politician. >> greg, the fact that you weren't expecting him to go that far shows your self-bigotry of low expectation. >> this is not a high-tech lynching. the clarence thomas thing was not a high-tech lynching. it was an i will legitimate attack from the left on clarence thomas. he turned the tables. and so he played the race card the way liberals have been playing it and playing it before. even given that what is going on with cain is not unfair. as kevin said, anybody who is thinking about running for president or running for any office who has this in his background should be prepared

for it. and the fact that he wasn't i think says a lot about his organizational skills and his political judgment and it is something that everybody, republicans, independents, whatever should be assessing if they are thinking about voting for him. >> he is prepared. he is denying the allegations. there is one consenting adult. it is all speculation. >> first of all -- first of all he says he wants to pass it off as a left wing hit job. and then he says, well, maybe it wasn't rick perry behind it. he was thought prepared for this. they gave him like 10 days advanced notice they were coming out for this.

>> we forgot you were there. >> the liberal plan is working. >> he didn't become a supreme court justice. >> let me ask you this, is this the wrong comparison to clarence thomas? there was an interesting column where he compared what is going on to cain with jesse jackson when jesse jackson was running for president there were a lot of rumors swirling around and they turned out to be true. nobody went after him because he was a left wing black candidate. so in a sense he was treated differently. isn't that a better comparison? >> the cain campaign suggested that this could have been an inside job too. this could have been a perry campaign. i think it was validating. obviously people inside the republican party and outside think he is a player. >> well played. >> he is a formidable

political force. the best comparison going back to the point just been made, it is anthony wiener. it is not the scandal, it is how he is handling it. it is the muddled message and the more he talks the more -- >> but at the same time the wiener thing, it is so different. there were pictures. >> but he came out and he just kept talking. >> the polls are 2ing up -- going up. >> you can't have a guy say i am not a politician. you are running for a president and you are a politician. that's pretty much by a politician. i don't remember what the second thing was. >> i was wondering what that was about. >> i still have a -- >> he is coming to tears. >> the second thing was the racial allegation is nonsense. it is a bit mitt romney having the allegations made. mitt romney would be crucified if someone said he sexually harassed him. >> they are coming after him.

that's why there are multiple women. >> he is not getting the preferential treatment that he would have gotten by the left wing media because he is black. >> that's my point. >> that's the bias. >> you nailed it better than i could say. jesse jackson got preferential treatment that cain is not getting. i really think that. >> the thing you have to keep in mind here -- >> and what do you know about this anyway? >> because i am one of our blacks. >> let's not go there. there was a whole lot that jesse jackson had -- was going against him in terms of attacks from other -- i mean, remember the whole -- the problem that cain actually faces is the only campaign he ran seriously before was for the senate in georgia. there is not a lot of political background to go

after -- or baggage to go after. if there is going to be a political attack it will be from when he was working in business. and that's the way the game is played. to say that jesse jackson got a pass back in 1984 and 1988 -- >> have i to move on, but jesse jackson got a lot of passes. he got passes in terms of getting money. he basically -- his career is a pass. >> tell me how a baptist preacher without a church and no job is a multimillionaire. >> he is not a credible threat. but cain is a credible threat. >> there is an argument whether he is a credible threat. somebody who doesn't know who conservatives are. an argument can be made there are conservatives giving him a pass on things that a white conservative would not be given a pass on. >> good point. >> he doesn't know what neo conservatives are. >> he would not let that pass. >> it doesn't matter. this is rome. the mobs rule.

the people like him. therefore he is a credible threat. that's the bottom line. >> we are talking about what conservatives who are defending him in a way they would not necessarily -- >> anybody who thinks he is a credible threat i would like to make a bet with. >> what about cainvp tickets. >> where was he born? >> we don't know. >> from raising cain to acting insane. is saville tee on the decline? according to a survey, purple. wrong survey answer. back in may researchers asked the americans to place a number on what they perceive to be the most uncivil institution in society. political campaigns were considered the most i'm polite at 80% followed by pop culture at 75%. media at 74 and the music industry tied. it is 73 and 71. should have read that slower. as for specific institutions within the media, fox news came in at 51%. that was followed by msnbc at

37 and cnn at 32. yea, we win again. and they said that it has negative consequences for america, and it is perceived to be harming america's future and hurting the perception on the world's stage. like we care. you hate us because we are beautiful. speaking of being uncivil -- >> that was my cousin, carl. i will miss him. isn't it weird nobody cared about incivility when bush was hitler. john stewart never wondered when there was a president compared to a nazi. >> the tea parties had a rally in the capital. and then it was a fashist revolution and then you have these people saying, yes, we should kill the rich people and eat them and put them in

prison and seize their property and have a marxist revolution. all of these idealists. i thinkingis all over blown. you look at how they are running in the 18th century and 19th century. you look at the newspapers and you could never publish a paper like that. >> they didn't have papers back then. they wrote it on wood. >> i want to know whether it was before or after opener man was there. -- oberman was there. >> do you think fox news is uncivil? you know where you are right now, by the way? or do we rank high because nobody watches nbc or cnn? >> in terms of being uncivil, this show definitely ups the ratings. >> there are so many times i almost walked off the set. >> are you serious? >> it is a fine line i walk every day. maintaining my job and my spot as a guest. especially with the story that is about to come out by the way.

this is why i love surveys. it is totally useless. it is the definition of subjective. it doesn't define what being uncivil is. they are asking, do you think others were rude to you? it is totally useless. >> 91% of those claimed that it will have negative consequences for america's reputation. should we care about that? >> greg, you ignorant slut. >> are you going to beat that joke into the ground, are you? >> i just might. >> i think we have. >> i just might. no, we shouldn't because different parts of the world even the west hate us for some reason. the french hate us for whatever reason. even though they are some of the most uncivil. but i would actually -- i might actually agree to a certain extent that there does seem to be a little bit more incivility in society, and i

think it is almost that people have started to take the anonymous incivility that they exercise on-line and start bringing it into the, quote, real world. >> do you buy that? >> it is problematic. >> it has nothing to do with fox. >> this comes up uh a lot. incivility is coming from the web because you can say what you want. is that diverting it? >> it might be amplifying it. and something is going on. i was raised in the south i was raised that you don't discuss -- >> you were raised with wolves. >> i was raised not to discuss religion or politics. the reason you don't do it in the south was it was the easiest way to not get shot. >> i don't know what it is. people can't not talk about those two things. they are over sharing and they want to shout loud. >> i agree, i agree, i agree. >> three times you agree. >> and society does reward the

uncivil, and the media does reward that. if you shout loud and say the stupid things you will get attention. >> the perfect example for that is the housewives series that's focused on people throwing wine in other people's face. >> and there is no more social sanction. they used to be all classes and now we are mixed up. >> have i to move on. -- i have to move on. how can nonprofit organizations used to payoff overseas gambling debts? brooke goldstein reveals all in her latest book "i don't really care about children." first what do you do if the wedding photographers screw up? trick question, they never screw up. this tease was paid for by the association of wedding photographers of america.

he is using legal tricks to get new picks. i speak of a new york man who is suing his wedding photographers because he says the pictures were crap and they missed the last dance and bouqet toss. i believe a bouqet is an australian midget. but he doesn't want just his $4100 back. he wants $48,000 to recreate the wedding. and he will have the pictures and video reshot by a different photographer. you think that seems extreme? but maybe it is romantic, right 1234* what if i told you the wedding took place in 2003, and that it really might be hard to recreate since the remis are now divorced and his ex-wife has moved out. i bet you feel stupid for thinking it was real now. but not as stupid as the

supreme court justice who let it proceed and quoted "the way we were" in the decision saying" this is the case where it appears the scattered pictures left behind at the wedding were more important than the real thing." next on the justice's docket, the state versus corgie who won't fetch for the blanket. >> the video evidence is damning. >> this is romantic. it needs to be made into a hollywood romantic comedy. >> really? >> no. >> i think you are lying. >> brooke you are a lawyerish. how could the judge let this suit go forward? >> i don't know. i love judicial creativity, guy would have had a decent case if the statute out of

limitations had not run out. they have to sue within six years and it has been, what, nine years? >> there is something obviously wrong with him. >> yes. there some -- there is absolutely something wrong with him. what you said about the judge -- if there was ever a perfect case for the need for tort reform and these stupid cases getting thrown out, this is one of them. if he wanted to -- say he just wants to sue the photograph -- the photographers, fine, there is maybe a case on the narrow means. but for trying to get $40,000 or $50,000 to recreate the wedding, why not hire a digital artist and take the pictures, photo shop and they can -- they will look great. you can do anything with computers. >> but then we won't have a story. think about "red eye" first. >> i think the photographer has failed to take important moments like the toast.

>> like the woman leaving him the moment they got married. kevin, this guy has been unemployed since 2008. could that have something to do with it? >> could be. for $48,000 he can go and get himself a couple new brides. and i think that's the best thing to do. this story makes me bang my head on the table, but i am not going to because it is glass. good god, what was he thinking? he should be horse whipped in public. pillet ever pillet -- people who file these lawsuits should face corporal punishment. >> the real koel culprit is the judge allowing this to go forward. what do all of the law shows that we grew up on have in common from "l.a. law" to" ali mcbeal" and they always have a weird hobby or he dresses in tennis shorts under the robe, but always bril brilliant and

so smart. she did this to get attention. it is the judge, and that's why she quoted the barbara stria and -- try stand songs because she is the story. >> i will see you your theory and raise you a theory. if i were a conservative i might say this guy is a classic entitled unemployed sort of guy. he feels entitled to search back and get this suit. >> we will leave it at that. >> do you have a comment on the show? e-mail us. and to leave a voicemail 212-462-5050. still to come, the half time report from tv's andy levy. not as cute as dana perino. joy it is sponsored by tight rote walkers. the practice of walking along a rote at a great height, usually in front of an audience. thanks, tightrope walkers.

welcome back. let's find out if we have anything wrong so far. hi, andy. >> hi, greg. how are you feeling. >> i'm feeling good. >> you did this. >> i am on antibiotics. >> is that a reaction? >> no, that was the heroin. i had a ricola cough drop. my eyes were tearing in the a block. >> i saw that. it was about herman cain. >> no, i was missing bill.

>> nobody is buying that. >> speaking of herman cain, can i just say if i was a bulldog forced to dress as a unicorn i would be leaking stories left and right too? what is wrong with people. greg, you seem to be excusing the cain campaign's horrible response by saying he didn't expect to get this far and he is not a politician. why should i vote for him for president? if he didn't expect to get this far and he is not prepared, he will not be prepared for that. >> it is a risk. >> what's the deal? >> it is a risk. people took a risk on president obama who had a few months in office as a senator. they took that risk. the risk here is do you take an extremely successful businessman who isen gabbing -- engaging and kind of quirky? but they are a leader. do you take a risk on some

pecka di llos. >> if i may quote a modern day profit? -- prophet? >> it is a risk. >> wasn't that whole thing in 2008 that obama on the right and how can you vote for him? >> it is not a bad risk, but if you want to take a risk, that's the definition of a risk. >> you are the definition of a risk. >> don't i know it, my friend. i am america's bad boy. >> you really are. >> you said cain is denying the allegations. >> the -- the point is he was not prepared for this stuff to surface. >> i was supposed to be on that side of the screen. >> and yet you are not. let it go. >> i won't let it go. i am really pis se d right now. >> is that why you sewed two jackets.

>> he was prepared -- i didn't even hear that. >> we were doing so well. >> what did he just say? >> he said he looks fantastic. ask the question again. >> he was prepared and had his statement. he just didn't realize how long the media would harp on it, especially when there is no evidence that anything happened. >> he wasn't prepared for it at all. the story came out on sunday night. he had a campaign advisor and talking to geraldo. the next day cain came out and it was what they said before. >> it is unfortunate and he is a man that learns his lessons from prior mistakes. >> that's why there is three allegations? >> hopeful leahy will learn this lesson and he will better organize his campaign moving forward. >> rob, you said an argument can be made that some conservatives are giving cain a pass because they are black.

i don't think that's true. i do think they are doing because he is a conservative. >> i think if other so-called conservatives had said some of the -- made some of the political statements and forget about the sexual harassment stuff, i don't think they would be giving a pass -- they are giving him more of a pass on abortion than they gave on mitt romney flip-floping on it. they are giving a pass on neo conservative. even as a conservative. >> don't you think conservatives in general are more forgiving? >> are you asking me that? >> yes. >> because why? >> they know man is fallible. >> i think we just solved this problem. >> ladies and gentlemen, america's bad boy, greg gutfeld. >> i have to say i don't

understand so many people were instantly dismissive of the sexual harassment claims. they may well be nothing. i am not saying they are not, but they may not be nothing. i don't think you can cavalierly dismiss them. there is such a thing as actual sexual harassment. >> it was something more like inappropriate behavior in the workplace. when it comes to what the charges are, the legal jargon makes a difference. the one person can be like, i like your dress today. maybe cane was trying to be nice. who knows what happened? this is all hear say. >> didn't one woman say he invited her to a hotel room and if she didn't go along she could lose her job? >> we heard that with dom dominic -- dominic trays can. -- strauss-kahn. >> they may well not be true,

but we don't know that. >> i think you are right. the fact that there are similar allegations should give everybody some pause. the other issue is for a lot of conservatives, they think the sexual harassment has become a legal game and a way to win -- a way to win the lottery. i think that's why a lot of them are willing to give cane a pass on the issue because of the problems. >> there is no question they are right about that. >> brooke, you said cain isn't getting the preferential treatment, and you agreed, but that's should be what it would be like. >> andy levy is smart. >> we could still say comparison.

>> absolutely. greg, i believe you said you don't know where cain was born? >> yes. >> he was allegedly born in memphis, tennessee, but i have not seen the birth certificate. >> i will send some people down there. they will do a little investigating. >> good idea. >> maybe do a toner with us. -- a phoner with us and let us know. >> i can't be bothered in to come in. i will call it in. coinciding with my reality show. >> brooke, you wrote of incivility on this show? >> i don't know what you said about me. >> was wondering if when you spoke of incivility on this show are you talking about the way john devore was filling in for me? >> that was probably the rudest behavior i have ever seen from a guest. >> bs. i >>- q. i just want to say for the record that brooke is the perfect conservative come tale of brains and beauty.

>> that is inappropriate. >> kevin, fox news rating for a higher number. my guess is either way the fact that far more people watch fox news has to do with the results. >> you are problem probably right. if we are being uncivil, brooke was complaining about being on this side over that side. to people at home we are on the same side of the screen. >> i will not let you people. >> andy, do you have a translator? >> no. >> i think thinking of hanging out and watching a move she. -- movie. you were raised not to miss the toll picks because it is the best way not to get shot that's all i wanted to say.

wedding lawsuit, brooke, you said this guy might have a good case of breech of contract if the stat tiewt of limb limitation before it ran out. the wedding was in 2003 and the wedding was in 2009. >> i was der -- wonder what it so long. >> this was a $40,000 claim to recreate a wedding? i mean, come on. >> that's why i am not a manhattan justice or something. >> god knows how much kim kardashian will be looking for. >> her creative wedding. >> that's a good idea. they should do a show where they recreate the last 70 days of her life. i can't get enough. >> i think it is more important to note that rob delaney is suing kim

kardashian if she goes through with the divorce. >> he feels cheated. a lot of people. >> you know who else feels cheated? >> who? >> america. >> as mark as bod bay, i am the most cheated of all. >> gotta go. coming up, salina gomez is dead, tired of all of these rumors about her boyfriend. leave justin out of your sick games. first, what happens when the world of family pets and the world of awkward photos collide? we will discuss henry kissinger's new book.

imes what, guess what -- guess what, guess whaters, andy did an interview and we will play it now. >> you know what is fun? board games. but also, awkward family pet

photos, and there hasn't been a book dedicated to the subject until now. the duo behind the awesome awkward family photos is back. we are glad to have back one of our authors. before we show pictures from the book which is amazing, we were looking at it today, and i almost wasn't ready for the show. how did the sear series come about? >> it started with my mother. she hung up an awkward vacation photo in the house and i saw her doing that and it was my inspiration. we went to lunch and talking about them and he said i have a ton of those. >> how do you get the photos do people submit them? >> they submit them to awkward family photos .com or awkward family pet foes .com. >> how many submissions did you get for the pet? >> something like 20,000. >> are they like from three people?

>> we don't know because they could send several e-mail addresses. >> are there weird places you have gotten submissions from? >> we get them from everywhere around the world. we got some from china, roar shaw, brazil. >> are all of the brazilian pets hairless? >> that's a good question. >> that's not a good question. >> don't encourage him. >> i want to show some of the pictures and then i will ask a question. we have some of our favorites. >> i think this is the favorite. >> this is probably our favorite picture. it is called pet noir. there are some mysterys that should be unsolved. >> some mysteries should end up with people in jail.

>> amazing. >> let's see the next one although i hate to change that. >> when you see the cat's expression, but if you can imagine taking the cat to the mall to sit on a giant bunny and how freaked out the cat syou would understand the cat's eyes are bugging out. there is no animal that likes to be touched more than a skunk. these are children all with their pet skunk which actually i didn't realize could be domestic. i didn't know it was a pet until we got the know toes. >> look at the body language. i feel like even the kids know that there is no animal that would want to be touched less than the skunk. >> they are not happy. >> let's check out the next one. >> this is one of my favorites. >> these people decided to grieve the pet by having the skeleton mounted. something about the

expressions on their face and just the smile cracks me up. i have never seen anything like this. i didn't know people did this. >> the dude looks like he just finished crying. >> it is like a little dinosaur. >> next one? >> this is a classic example of the length we will go through with our tests. she dyed the hair of the poodle and she has a matching dye and you can see it at the bottom of her hair. it is colorful to say the least. >> at some point do you feel you have to call the cops? >> we have been concerned for a few people. >> i am concerned about the pets and not the people. >> let's keep going. >> this is -- some pictures speak for themselves. this is a guy and his raccoon. >> what is awkward about that?

>> this one amazes me. where do you find a portrait studio with a staged alien abduction back ground. i want to know where they found this. it is amazing. i didn't know it exacted. the acting is impeccable. i feel like they are being ab ukt ducted. >> she is ascending. >> why are you so sure that is a back grope? >> well, you guy #r*z bringing up good points. >> we just wanted to reconfirm. >> i don't think it is a backdrop, for the record. >> a guy in his fur. very serkzy. if you have a bird you know that's all you need to get the ladies is that bird. >> it is like a preppy pirate. >> a preppy pirate from the 80s. >> these are two brothers that are -- you know, we all know

about the crazy cat lady. we feel there is also the crazy cat die. the cat is spread eagle there, but it is two brothers and it is a space backdrop, and it is really bizarre. >> it is not a space backdrop. of course it is a space backdrop. how else two take that picture. >> i am amazed that those are two brothers. >> this is one of our most enthusiastic monkey families. there is about six monkeys in there and they are all dressed in different out outfits. >> look at the one in the dress. it is posing. it is like an ad for bar bo swron. >> before we get out of here, are there more awkward photo franchises in the future? >> there very well could be. the next frontier for us is awkward family videos. >> branching out. >> that's where we are heading next. >> you are looking for a movie deal. >> if you know anybody let us know.

>> if you are interested, "red eye" has a mountain of them. >> i appreciate it. awkward family photos now available. it is time to take a break. more stuff when we return.

welcome back, america. it is time for "red eye"'s

where are they now? surely you remember this. >> that was in 2008. sasha darvinsky was a worldwide sensation overnight for her incredible gracefulness and poise. by early 2009 she was headlining a brand-new show at new york's lincoln center. but the cut throat competition of the ballet world quickly proved too much for the small town prairie dog and turned to drugs. darvinsky started dancing at the popular gentlemen's club. but she was fired. a year later she was outside a posh new york nightclub. after her release she promptly took up residence with her on again-off again boyfriend who says they are, quote, happy they could be.

th is a "red eye" where are they now. >> the first decision she could do was move in with that tramp. i am not going to tell you what plans he has for her, but they are not good plans. we will close things out with the post game wrap up with tv's andy levy. i was going to tell what you the plans were. and to see recent shows fox newscom/redeye.

don't forget to watch us saturday at 2:00 a.m. eastern time and 11:00 p.m. pacific time. a new "red eye" is on monday. >> time to go back to andy levy for the post game wrap up. >> thanks. what occurred last month for the first time in nine years? >> for the first time in nine

years dc comics clobbers marvel in mark kill share. that's because dc comics have done a big relaunch and stuff like that. anybody want to read superman, batman stuff, get on the ground floor now. >> i know nothing of any of that. >> don't ask him to explain more, just move on. >> brooke, i hear you need money? >> yes, it is extremely important in these trying times to support nonprofits that work tirelessly to better our world. so if you care about the recruitment of muslim children and suicide bombers donate to the children's right insurance department. we need your help. >> i understand crore book is about to be translated. >> i understand it will be translated into korean. you think of all of the people in the world that don't need a book on socialism, it is the koreans. >> john, what happens w