in new york city, this is mike huckabee. captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> judge jeanine: tonight on "justice." the baby lisa case. the man seen carrying a baby the night lisa disappeared has been identified by one of the witnesses. we have that story. plus -- >> a vicious beating caught on tape. but have these parents committed a crime? and -- >> i'm tired of looking at victims and saying we're sorry. >> judge jeanine: a sheriff tells women get a gun, a big one tortion protect themselves in attacks. you with is make my day justice the answer? plus -- >> hello. >> judge jeanine: kim camden dashian.

her 72 day wedded bliss. was it all a hoax? coming up tonight on "justice." >> judge jeanine: welcome to "justice." i'm judge jeanine pirro. new developments in the investigation into baby lisa's disappearance. mark fuhrman joins us. ing good evening, mark. >> good evening, judge. >> judge jeanine: the witness that we heard about who says that he saw a man carrying a baby about 4:00 a.m. in the morning has identified that man in a photo lineup. that man fits the description of the next door neighbor of the irwins who now has an alibi and has passed a polygraph. what do you make of the latest news? >> my -- there is no surprise, really. i can't imagine that this would have been connected with that large time span of those two different groups of people seeing this one man. but judge, you know, isn't it

kind of ironic that everybody surrounding this case the next door neighbor, the next door neighbor's husband, deborah bradley's brother jeremy irwin, this man, jersey, everybody involved with this has been effectively passed by the police as they are not suspects. they have been cleared. the only person that hasn't been cleared is the mother, the last person that saw the baby alive. >> judge jeanine: and clearly she is the one who told us that she failed the polygraph test. so mark, what do you make of the fact that although there were indications that it would happen this week or next week there is no scheduled visit and i confirmed this tonight, of the half brothers of baby lisa for an interview by the investigators nor have the parents agreed to a separate

interview with the detectives. what does that tell you? >> well, i think the attorney that represents deborah bradley or the family, however, you want to phrase it, has shut down contact with the media. obviously it didn't work. the police have not addressed that. wedeborah bradley's status directly. what they have done is cleared everything that the defense of deborah bradley and the family has brought up as possibilities. in a left-handed way they are letting us conclude the obvious and i believe that these two boys will never be interviewed in the status that the police would like. they might be in a grand jury or in a courtroom, but not that way. >> judge jeanine: i happen to agree with you, mark, on that one. by the way, it has been kind of quiet in kansas city. very quickly, what do you think is going on now with the p.d.?

>> i think that they would like to find a body. they would certainly like to find a live child but i think that has been hope that has been almost erased. i think they are trying to put their case together, hoping they get to interview the boys. and they would like to interview deborah bradley one on one but i don't think it is something that is going to prevent them from making an arrest in this case. >> judge jeanine: and mark, not just deborah but jeremy as well one on one. thank you very much for being with us this evening. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: one of the worst fears for most women is being sexually assaulted. what one police chief recommends has sparked public outrage. >> i'm tired of looking at victims and saying we're sorry. >> judge jeanine: after a particularly violent assault in his county last weekend, sheriff chuck wright is fed up. one of his female citizens is attacked in a park, grabbed from behind, stripped and nearly raped. monday, the sheriff calls a press conference.

he says the justice system is failing them. and issues a call to arms for women. >> i don't want you to go for the mace, go for the concealed weapons permit. >> judge jeanine: he says women need to arm themselves with guns, big guns, to protect themselves. and the annies of spartanburg, south carolina, got their guns. the county saw a big run on firearms permits and purchases. >> over the last 15-16 hours i have had 16 women that have signed up to come through the class over the next two weeks. >> judge jeanine: critics immediately condemned the sheriff but we wanted to give him a chance to explain. sheriff chuck wright joins us now. good evening, sheriff. why did you say that? >> because i meant it. >> judge jeanine: okay. and you believe that if a woman is about to be raped she has the right to shoot and kill her rapist? >> if the state you live in

allows you to have a concealed weapons permit i say you should arm yourself if that is what you choose to do. i'm tired of looking at people and looking at victims and telling them we have had people in our custody over 20 times and can't do anything about people who attack them like animals. i'm tired of our justice system being broken. >> judge jeanine: how long have you been a sheriff? >> i have been a sheriff for eight years. >> judge jeanine: and you sound like someone who has been in for 30 years and just plain had t. but you are very aggressive about this and sparked a public debate as to whether or not women should go out there packing pistols, annie oakinglies. >> i want you to be trained and go through a safety course. people asking me these questions what about if they attack them quick do they have time to do this and that. we can what if it all day long. the bottom line is if we arm our men and women and have them not be standing there looking

wide eyed victims of crime and fighting back maybe some of these people will quit attacking innocent people. >> judge jeanine: you call this guy an animal. arrested 20 times in the last 20 years. a failure not just of the courts but it is a failure of the system as a whole. you have seen said that. >> i think it is a failure as a whole. we have had him 20 times and he has been charged with rape before. so, you know, i'm tired of looking at victims. it goes deeper. when a woman is raped i'm telling you it is not just the woman who goes through it. it is the husband, the children, the children's children, the people that she goes to church with, the people she works with. i'm tired of saying i'm sorry. >> judge jeanine: i got 30 years in. i totally get it. the ripple effect is enormous. some who say that maybe you are abdicating your responsibility and saying to everybody it is vigilante justice time, you are on your own, annie, go get your gun. >> i'm not advocating

vigilantism as all. >> judge jeanine: you even tell them the kind of gun. a .410 gun in it. even the fan any pack. >> i didn't bring the fan any pack. that was an opportunity, i used it from the cameraman that was there. >> judge jeanine: at the end of the day, sheriff, i think when you have vigilante justice you have to make sure that women understand there are only certain circumstances that they can use those guns. >> judge, this is not vigilante justice. this is arming yourself to not be a victim of crime, that is all. i totally get it. i have a lady that works with me in my office that says i don't want the responsibility of taking someone's life but i don't have a problem with mace or some other form of defense. >> judge jeanine: when you have seen enough you realize that sometimes the system doesn't work the way it should. and this guy in particular only picked on women, you said. domestic violence, sexual assault. >> he wouldn't big on a big 'ole boy like myself.

he would pick on a woman. this woman was walking her dog on a sunday afternoon at the milliken research park. it as private facility. they are good enough to let people go out there and enjoy their facility. and he made friends with the dog first to make sure he wasn't going to get bit. >> judge jeanine: that is a predator for you. >> that's correct. >> judge jeanine: do you have daughters? i have two daughter in laws and a granddaughter. don't ask that question on tv, please. >> do they pack? >> one is in the air force overseas and the other one has signed up this week to get her concealed weapons. >> judge jeanine: saw your press conference. sheriff, stand by. my next guest wants to shoot some holes in your argument. then, highlights from tonight's debate between herman cain and newt gingrich.

>> judge jeanine: we are joined by melly merik, executive

director of people against rape. melanieers doesn't have the sheriff have a point that women are on their own to defend them sals because the police just can't be everywhere? >> he does have a point with that. my problem is you make is sound like victims if they are not carrying a gun and they are sexually assaulted it was their fault. that is where i have a little bit of a problem with it. >> judge jeanine: what do you mean by that? >> what happens is -- well, for instance, if someone assaults a woman who has a concealed weapon, she is carrying a gun, he tries to assault her and she shoots him and kills him and finds out he doesn't have a weapon then is she going to be charged with murder because she can't prove in the law -- eyes of the law that she was sexually assaulted. >> judge jeanine: how do you respond to that, sheriff? >> i don't agree with that at all. i don't think you have a time to interview a guy that is telling you, demanding you to take your clothes out and lay down or be still or i will shoot you.

>> judge jeanine: which is what this guy did. he maided her strip down in the park. >> we can what if this all day long. i didn't say anything about it being anybody's fault if they had a weapon or not. i simply said i'm tired of the justice system being broken and i'm tired of women feeling like they have to stand there and take it. i want them to do something. i want them to defend themselves. it is real easy not to get killed woman, just don't attack them. >> exactly. that is true. >> judge jeanine: what should a woman do in that situation? >> we con doan -- we docon done self-defense classes. it is about getting away, saving yourself. not necessarily staying around to fight but getting away. >> judge jeanine: you have dealt i'm sure with thousands of rape victims as have i. sometimes you just can't fight these dudes off, they are big guys. >> but the thing is nobody knows what they would do until they are sexually assaulted. you could have a gun.

>> judge jeanine: wouldn't you rather have a gun, wouldn't you rather be a defendant than a victim? >> absolutely you would rather not be a victim. i think when you make a statement like that then i think that -- don't get me wrong, if a grown woman wants to go out and get a concealed weapon and get a gun i would support a woman in doing that. i have no problem with that. >> that is what i was advocating. >> not every woman wants that or needs that or feels comfortable. >> judge jeanine: but not every women thinks she will be raped. >> why do you buy a fire extinguisher hoping there is never a use for it but you have it on hand just in case. that is why you get the concealed weapons permit hoping and praying you never use it but if you need it you have it right there with you. >> the other thing that i would liking to bring up is that this while this assault was horrible and i actually applaud the sheriff for being so proactive about this case and finally getting this guy behind bars and hopefully he will stay behind bars. most assaults are not strange

assaults. >> judge jeanine: is it less of a rape if a family member rapes you? what i'm saying is if you are with somebody that you trust or an acquaintance that you meet out that is different than someone coming you behind you on a blitz attack. >> judge jeanine: probably worse if you trust them. talk about a betrayal of trust. the downside to women's defending themselves legally under the second amendment to the constitution? >> certainly their right to do that. i hope that we could learn some other ways to handle that. and education is the answer to all of that. >> judge jeanine: of course. >> education is not the answer to all of that. fighting back and making sure that people don't do that again is the answer to that and our justice system being broken and it needs to be fixed across the country, not just in south carolina. i'm tired of telling victims sorry. >> judge jeanine: got to wrap right now. sheriff wright and melanie, thank you so much. around the disgusting video of a judge whipping his daughter. is there any recourse for her?

and for the people who find themselves in his courtroom? and then, the highlights from the presidential debate between republicans herman cain and newt gingrich.

>> judge jeanine: it is a video that brings home the horror of true -- the true horror of child abuse. in 2004, hillary adams is a 16-year-old girl living in rock port, texas. suffering from a rare form of cerebral palsy, she seeks solace in computers and music. one night after she is caught by h her father downloading illegal music. >> go get my belt.

>> millary sets up a hidden camera in her bedroom because, she says, she knew what was coming. >> bend over the bed. bend over the bed! the teen captures a vicious 7-minute whipping by her father with a belt. he hits her 20 times. at one point, her mom enters the picture and lays down a lick, telling hillary. >> you turn over like a 16-year-old and take it! >> hillary says this beating is common in her house and sick of the abuse she wants proof of what is happening. >> i'm going it take you in and wear your [ bleep ] this belt. >> no one with sees the tape until last week, 7 years after the incident when hillary uploads the video to youtube. public outrage is immediate not only because of the abuse but because hillary adams' father,

william as dams i adams is a fy law judge in texas. the scene is difficult to watch. but is what judge adams did a crime? and why did hillary wait 7 years to release the video. joey jackson, criminal defense attorney and dr. john sharp psychiatrist with the esteemed harvard medical school. this was criminal, joe. >> absolutely. this is outrageous behavior and should not be tolerated and i say this from a criminal defense alternative. he is lucky this the statute of limitations just passed. he is beating his child and cursing at his child. he should be embarrassed and ashamed and resign his judgeship immediately. >> across this country parents have the right in every state to use physical punishment as long as they do so in a reasonable way. there is an exception, you can hit your children.

>> there is punishment and there is punishment. this crosses the line. not only did he whip her, ferociously and horrifically. he left and came back to finish up the job. that can't be done. the belt is a lesson. >> he turned out the lights so the neighbors couldn't see. he knew. dr. sharp, what is going on with this family? >> it is terrible. you can see by your emotional reaction this is revolting. there are two kinds watching this. some say this is just that a revolting unacceptable experience to endure or put upon your child. others kind of shrug and say you know what, i had this growing up and it isn't as bad as it seems. >> judge jeanine: i heard both sides people coming down but the mom joins in and now says i was brain washed. do you buy that? >> i buy that. she can be a victim of this, too, and that may explain why hillary had to wait inform she could get to a place of safety before she could get forward.

>> how do you explain the fact that hillary lived with the father after she could give with the mother? >> i believe that she didn't feel safe to take this bolder step and i don't believe that she could have done it until she had the kind of courage and safety and space to be able to. >> judge jeanine: joey, do you agree with the doctor? she waits seven years to release a tape and by the way, her 10-year-old sister is in the joint custody of her father. if it is dangerous shouldn't she have said something earlier? >> perhaps she is protecting him as a result. she protected him by visit too of not releasing it. if she released it earlier, remember, the statute of limitations is five years. there will not be a state prosecution as a result of the statute. the feds have declined to prosecute and therefore in the event she released it earlier he would be in boiling earlier. remember this, the mother takes the belt from the father. had she not taken the belt it could be worse. he goes and gets another belt and goes and continues the beating. >> judge jeanine: the father, doctor, says that hillary is

being spiteful because he threatened to take away her mercedes and financial support because she dropped out of college. by the way, she was a piano prodigy. does this change your opinion of what her motivations are? >> t doesn't. i believe that she had to make sense of how to deal with t. probably had conflicted feelings. if she love her dad and he did this to her she learnd that people who love me beat me. she probably had to wrestle with that in order to get h her head on straight and say you know what, this is unacceptable. >> judge jeanine: will he be removed from the bench? >> if he doesn't the people get to elect him and vote for him in three years i would expect that they will throw him out if the state judicial commission doesn't do their job and take action to remove him. >> judge jeanine: they have taken him off these child abuse cases. thank you very much for being with us this evening. and herman cain and newt gingrich slug it out in the

the employee of the month is... spark card from capital one. spark cash gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. it's hard for my crew to keep up with 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. 2% cash back. that's setting the bar pretty high. thanks to spark, owning my own business has never been more rewarding. [ male announcer ] introducing spark the small business credit cards from capital one. get more by choosing unlimited double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? this guy's amazing.

morning because my back hurt so bad. the sleep number bed conforms to you. i wake up in the morning with no back pain. i can adjust it if i need to...if my back's a little more sore. and by the time i get up in the morning, i feel great! if you have back pain, toss and turn at night or wake up tired with no energy, the sleep number bed could be your solution. the sleep number bed's secret is it's air chambers which provide ideal support and put you in control of the firmness. and the bed is perfect for couples because each side adjusts independently to their unique sleep number. here's what clinical research has found: 93% of participants experienced back-pain relief. 90% reported reduced aches and pains. 87% fell asleep faster and enjoyed more deep sleep. for study summaries, call this number now. we'll include a free dvd and brochure about the sleep number bed including prices, and models plus a free $50 savings card.

and how about this? steel springs can cause uncomfortable pressure points. but the sleep number bed contours to your body. imagine how good you'll feel when your muscles relax and you fall into a deep sleep! i'm not just a back surgeon, i'm also a back patient. i sleep on the sleep number bed myself and i highly recommend it to all of my patients. need another reason to call? the sleep number bed costs about the same as an innerspring but lasts twice as long. so if you want to sleep better or find relief for your bad back, call now. call the number on your screen for your free information kit with dvd, brochure and price list. call right now and you'll also receive a $50 savings card just for inquiring about the sleep number bed. ask about our risk-free 30-night in-home trial. call now for your free information kit and a free $50 savings card.

call now!

i'm harris faulkner. now, back to the judge. jonz this is a fox news alert. things just wrapping up in the herman cain newt gingrich primary debate. here is a clip. >> joining us this evening, two candidates from the state of georgia. herman cain and newt gingrich. [ applause ] >> at this particular juncture, i'm supposed to have a minute to disagree with something that he said but i don't. so i would like to instead i don't medicare started in 1965.

our government told us that it was going to cost $6 billion to roll it out. we were also told that by 1990 it was going to cost $12 billion because of population growth, because of inflation, but in 1990 they missed the target of $12 billion. it wasn't 12. it wasn't 24. it wasn't 50. it was $109 billion. >> what do we do about rising healthcare costs? >> we have the best healthcare in the world. [ applause ] we have a healthcare cost problem. you are absolutely right. in order to solve the healthcare cost problem we must

use market-driven patient centered approaches. i have talked to doctors. i'm sure newt has talked to doctors. market centered -- patient centered market driven approaches. here again you cannot micromanage healthcare costs out of washington, d.c. it is impossible. every program that we have that has been administered out of washington, d.c. and a bureaucrat tries to make a decision that is going impact a patient or hospital or doctor has failed. >> the mess of the health system is an everything problem. it is a federal government problem. it as state government problem. it is an insurance company problem. it is a hospital problem. it as doctor problem and it as patient problem. all of us have a hand in making this thing a total mess. think about going to mcdonalds. we have no national hearings on fraud at mcdonalds.

think about it. you show he up and say i would like a quarter pounder with cheese. they give you a quarter pounder with cheese. you give them money. they are happy. you are happy. if you open up your bag and there is no quarter pounder are with cheese you are unhappy. and you go back and say where is my quarter pounder with cheese? there is a direct relationship. >> how do you get people up a then titlement roles and turn this in an equation and say you are not going to make it at 65, you might have to be 66. we would like to have you take your health safety management account and who will it into a life safety account. >> why is it so hard for the comcongressing to decide before you impose any penalties on honest people you quit paying crooks. >> defined benefit plan or premium support?

>> a defined -- you go first, newt. [ laughter ] >> i think everybody -- as a c.e.o. what your advice is to other c.e.o.s and how they think about this? >> my advice to them is something that i realize when i first became press and c.e.o. of godfather's in 1986 that if i didn't get involved in these issues they were going to collapse our entire free market system. so my advice is quite simply to c.e.o.s don't play it safe, get involved and be part of the solution. you have got some of us out there that are fighting but we need help in renforcement. one of the three biggest things that you have come to realize by being outside the bubble

during this period of time? >> set very big goals with tight deadlines. delegate like crazy. don't let any experts in the room. >> we are going to try to tackle the problem of social security entitlement. if you have your own personal social security savings account and you want to retire early on a smaller amount of money because you are willing to have more are free time, why would the congress tell you not to? and on the other hand, if you are like andy rooney who just passed away, having worked until he was 91, and you decide you love what you are doing and you want to stay active, why should the congress tell you you can't? and so i this think let's get politicians out of that decision process. return it to americans and let americans control their own lives. i became speaker in part because i told the truth to the house republican party for a decade and they finally decide

it was okay to become a majority. he became a leader at godfather's pizza because he had what it takes to make the company successful. ronald reagan on lessons he learned at general electric. compare regan's ability to talk directly to the american people, make sense and have the american people move the congress with the current president. with president is about as candid and accurate as bernie madoff and what he tells the -- in what he tells the american people. >> judge jeanine: up next from politics to paternity to divorce. and then my summation on kim kardashian and the as far as farce that was her wedding. do you have an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem? are you taking warfarin to reduce your risk of stroke caused by a clot?

you should know about pradaxa. an important study showed that pradaxa 150mg reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin. and with pradaxa, there's no need for those regular blood tests. pradaxa is progress. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding, and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have kidney problems or a bleeding condition, like stomach ulcers. or if you take aspirin products, nsaids, or blood thinners. tell your doctor about l medicines you take, any planned medical or dental procedures, and don't stop taking pradaxa without your doctors approval, as stopping may increase your stroke risk. other side effects include indigestion,stomach pain, upset, or burning. if you have afib not caused by a heart valve problem, ask your doctor if pradaxa can reduce your risk of a stroke. for more information or help paying for pradaxa,

visit pradaxa.com.

confidence, with depend in color. now available in gray. looks and fits like underwear. same great protection. depend. good morning. great day. >> judge jeanine: the fall of the house of kardashian is a spectacular as the 20-carat diamond engagement ring kris humphries cave to kim a few short months ago as their marriage hide hits the skids, m learns the spot light. can can fade very quickly. a few years ago, kim kardashian is nobody, the daughter of o.j. simpson lawyer robert kardashian and friend to paris hilton. then she shoots to fame after, of all things, starring in a

sex tape. an unauthorized video of him and her ex-boyfriend entertainer ray jay. but when the bedroom romp is released kim doesn't hide. she cashes in. she sues vivid entertainment the video distributors, eventually settling for a reported $5 million. and scores a reality show for her and her family, keeping up with the kardashian, which follows the whacky lives of the kardashian clan. >> either they want to be a part of the family or they can relate to someone in the family and i think it has just done well because we have been so real. >> hello. >> judge jeanine: the incredibly popular show in turn helps kim build an empire including a perfume line, clothing stores and even a line of diet products. but this season on keeping up with the kardashians things take a serious turn when kim reveals a new relationship with

probasketball player kris humphries. the whirlwind romance of less than mine months culminates in a televised over the top wedding. the nuptiala split into two, two hour e channel specials reportedly earned kim and kris big bucks. licensing of still photos in the millions. their usual pay check for the show itself and reportedly one third of all ad sales which aired over and over and over again. but this monday after only 72 days of holy matrimony the marriage goes to hell. and kim files for divorce, leaving many to wonder was this marriage a sham? all right. dylon, what is your take? was this true love?

>> i think after 72 days, judge, nothing could be true love. in fact, that is what the critics are suggesting that kim didn't even give this is chance. she reportedly didn't even see a marriage counselor. instead, she blindsided her husband and filed for divorce. kim has been conspicuous in her singledom absence since returning from australia. her behavior erratic. she didn't tell kris she was filing. then after 24 hours in australia said she couldn't deal with the hype and news surrounding the divorce and returned home. she hasn't been seen since. she has gone into hiding and now there are reports that she is trying to attempt not to have this become part of the reality show and the only reason i tell you that, judge, the only reason she wants that is one simple reason. they are under damage control mode at the moment and they are doing more damage than they are

controlling the situationing. >> well, you know, and there is talk of not running the wedding any more on e. have they pulled that one also? >> well, they haven't. and the a network must be licking its lips because for them, even this drama surrounding the kardashians means money for them, more viewers. at the same time, though, for the very first time the kardashian brand is suffering. credibility at an all-time low. reputation .com said more people now dislike kim than they ever have and that is concerning for the kardashians because they built an empire off the back of, well, nothing. >> judge jeanine: so to speak. joey, going to you, they did build an empire worth tens if not hundred is of millions of dollars based on the sex tape. how do you think this is going to impact the kardashian empire? in a negative way. this was predicated and fraud,

your honor, outrageous. >> judge jeanine: she is suing for divorce. how does that impact the divorce? prenuptials a preup inual agreement. but is there fraud in the stan tard sense? in is case you can argue this was done for the hype, judge, the publicity. to get everybody to look and to make money. >> judge jeanine: so then he, kris humphries who was blind sided by this can sue for fraud saying she never really married me. how do you know -- she never really loved me. how do you know if she ever really loved him. does this meet the smell test? remember the smell test in law school. if it smells bad it probably is. do you really think all this money, e shining all inth monitoring i, even you, right, you go to the wedding, what do you get.

>> any one who ever donated anything should get it back too,. >> judge jeanine: back to that. talk about returning the gifts or talk about returning anything? >> when i talk about damage control this is how they are doing more damage than they are controlling the situation. as the outrage exploded this week, kim appearance announced that she was going to donate -- not return the wedding gifts but donate $200,000 to a charity. a charity that looks after disadvantaged people. now, to me that sounds great but, of course, it is a tax write-off and what is the bet that that becomes a key part. >> doing this as a tax writeoff, making charitable contributions all the time. how about that $2 million ring. maybe it was a fraud on kris. does he say i want my ring back and can he get it? >> surprisingly he has been silent since the divorce made news and that is part of the pre-nup agreement as i understand that both parties

can't necessarily make negative comments about the other. he hasn't said whether he wants that giant dazzler back in his hands. of course, kris jenner the mom as they call her, the mom manager went on morning television and rosstr made an c slur. >> judge jeanine: what it was, dylon. >> she said she doesn't like indian givers. hello. damage control. damage, damage, damage. >> getting the ring back. >> joey, stay with us. up next, the saga over justin bieber and the woman who claims he fathered her child. justin may pay but the cost could be very high for her.

>> judge jeanine: did justin bieber father a child with one of his fans? the sordid details of an alleged quickie and i do mean a quickie in the bathroom sal after one of his concerts with a 19-year-old raises questions about culbability and criminality. the legal drama is sure to last more are than the sex act allegedly did. dylon, what is the latest? >> judge,ky tell you exclusively tonight that justin bieber appointed an attorney to represent h him in this matter and not just any old attorney. the high profile hollywood attorney howard weitzman who is what the hollywood reporter considers a superlawyer. he has represented o.j. simpson in the past along with arnold schwarzenegger and the late marlon brando. it remains to be seen haboober

bieber is going to do. he says he has never met mariah. there is only one way to confirm are whether he is, indeed, the father of her 4 month old baby tristan and that is to take the dna test. he has been silent on that claim. >> judge jeanine: he has hired this high profile attorney. what facts does she have to allege in the petition to get the court to say you have to take a paternity test. >> here is the real answer. the real answer is were they on the stage at the same time. did he invite h her back. did they have the opportunity to be together. >> judge jeanine: she says i had unprotected sex with justin bieber following the concert and will thy is no one else that could possibly be the father of my baby and we went into a bathroom stall and had sex for his first time. >> does the judge believe the series of accounts.

depends upon what the facts are. there is an easy way and a hard way. they way if he want to get out of it. volunteer to a paternity test. if he doesn't voluntarily he submit the judge can compel it. >> here is the question. if she sues him for child support and and is saying i had sex with this kid isn't shed a mating to statutory rape under the laws of california since she was 19 and he was 16? >> she certainly is. here is what is boding well in her favor. generally they are not prosecuted because of the proximity of the cases. usually in a case like this there is a gross disparity. >> judge jeanine: it is on the books statutory rate. >> apparently she wanted to take that risk as a result of the money. >> so, too, is the fact that justin bieber is in a relationship with his current girlfriend salina gomez. she is 1 is 19 and he is 17.

>> judge jeanine: what do we know about this woman who is suing justin bieber? she is on social services and getting food stamps and has a front row seat at a justin bieber concert. what is that? >> there are certain questions over this woman's credibility. already we saw a past boyfriend come out and say that she told him that he could quite well be the father of her child. we spoke to that boy's grandmother yesterday and she tells us that it is physically impossible, the time frames just don't match up. in fact, she was already pregnant at it. so while there are credibility issues over mariah's claims. >> what is going nap that instance is that she is saying there is only two people possibly and conceivably who it could be. my boyfriend who she approached about it and he denied it or justin bieber and if you look at the time frame, something is amis, judge. nine months. >> judge jeanine: i was counting and everybody else

will be counting. thanks so much. >> judge jeanine: and now for my thoughts. every girl dreams of the walk down the aisle, the beautiful gown, the fairly tale wedding. kim, 4 million people witnessed you walk down the aisle and your promise to love and honor your husband. 72 days later after care consideration you want to end your marriage. some things just don't work out as planned. really, kim? i think your plan was brilliant. well, core row graphed and marketed to make you millions. some say $15 million from tv alone. and then you high tail it to australia to sell purses. you send your mother/manager out to say you made less than $700,000 and you will give the money to charity and then she adds if your husband wants the $2 million ring back he is an indian giver. that is, by the way, what you call an ethnic slur. even most toasters have a 90 day war ranty. reports are are that you didn't

even have the courage to tell your h husband you are filing for divorce. i bet you spent more time for your fittings for your three vera wang gowns and your lawyers preparing for divorce than the marriage itself. where i come from people are are judged by their word and their vow. i haven't heard you were a victim of domestic violence or fraud or that your clearly blind sided husband was having an affair. friends say his not working bothered you. really? have you heard there is an nba lockout. should women whose husbands lose their jobs just dump them? i didn't need a body language expert to tell me this was theater and by the way, you are no liz taylor, you can't sing, act, or dance. you are famous for your sex tape. your owe an apology to thousands of young girls who look up to you. you didn't marry for love, instead for fame and money and even that can't buy your happiness. that is it for us tonight. thanks for joining us.

e-mail us your comments. captioned by closed captioning services, inc. have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta can help you get there, like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving, or engaging in other activities while asleep, without remembering it the next day, have been reported. abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations or confusion. in depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. alcohol may increase these risks. allergic reactions, such as tongue or throat swelling, occur rarely and may be fatal. side effects may include unpleasant taste, headache, dizziness and morning drowsiness. ask your doctor if lunesta is right for you. then get lunesta for $0 at lunesta.com.

there's a land of restful sleep. we can help you go there on the wings of lunesta.

bly don't you leave us alone. >> government is in our way. let the free market work. >> politicians claim they must manage everything. >> student loans. street vendors. iphone apps. >> okay, here you go. >> why is my doctor's iphone your business? >> and the politicians want us to pay for everything including wine tasting centers. gary reid monument. how much better would america be if government just got out of the way? get out of my life. big government reject it. that is our show, tonight. and now, john stossel.

>> you have h heard about our $14 trillion plus national debt and how it is getting worse but it is hard to get your brain around numbers that big so here is another way to think about the debt and the spending that makes it worse. this year, our government will spend twice what it takes in. twice. that is only going to increase the debt. this is just unsustainable. progressives say a solution is taxing the rich. but even if you took every penny of income from millionaires and billionaires, even that wouldn't cover the deficit. our only hope is to cut spending. and that is a good thing to do because government does all kinds of things it shouldn't do. but, few politicians will propose cuts. cuts after all are not politically popular. one who is trying is congressman mike pompaio. he wants to eliminate the economic development administration. what do they do?

>> takes about $300 million or $400 million a year from you the taxpayer and brings the money to washington, d.c. and distributes it. >> economic development. >> across a couple hundred district. they are a political animal. we haven't eliminated an agency with an administrator this high in 50 years in america so i'm trying to get rid of this one agency that does these quintessentially local tasks with federal dollars. the federal government has no business doing it. >> sounds good. they will build infrastructure for a steel plant in minnesota. improve electricity in vermont. >> the minnesota example is a perfect case. $200 million grant in a couple billion dollars project. it was going forward without federal taxpayer money. made sense economically and there was no reason to fleece the taxpayer for a couple million bucks to build that steel plant for that private

company. >> and some of what they do does see pointless. the harry reid research and technology park in las vegas. a million to promote tourism in the northern mariana islands. some people say you are not saving enough money to make any difference, we are billion in debt. >> we have to start some place and identify real agencies and get rid of them. not just trim them back or slow their growth. make them go away. >> that is why you picked this one. totally get rid of this. >> it does nothing the federal government ought to be doing. >> five other departments have economic development agencies within them. >> it is everywhere. these programs are duplicative we will work on that and go to the others as well. >> this is the administration massaging the congressmen to spread the loot around. >> you don't have to be sinister to know that the

political agencies perpetuate themselves. they put them in my district in kansas and all across the country so when the congressman shows up to say this ought to go away they point to them and say let me tell you what it has done in your district. they forget to tell you about all of the things that could have been done with the taxpayer money when, kansas, paid for projects in nevada and west virginia. >> it is hard for a congressman to say i don't want that money. >> you you have to have a vision for what the federal government is supposed to do. >> and say i don't want that money. get rid of all of that, even mine. >> even those moneys go coming to the state of kansas. >> $2 million for a culinary amphitheater and a wine tasting room in richland, washington. what are they thinking? >> some economic development agency in a local place applied for a grant from the economic development administration and qualified and received federal dollars. there was no one thinking about

whether that made sense or we would get a chance to look at that today and say tsk, tsk. you pointed out that these are sometimes folks in their home that say we want to cut government but you not here and not today. it is today and it is everywhere that we have got to shrink the federal government. federal government. >> you want to get rid of all the energy subsidies. and the wind lobby attacked you from that. you misunderstand how it has built a thriving american wind manufacturing sector. lots of jobs. >> they would even point out that they have one in my home state of kansas. they forget to tell you if that money were left in the money of taxpayers those jobs that they cost by taxing people and takeing that wealth out of the private sector cost far more jobs than the wind sector could ever hope to create. >> progressives generally think that energy subsidies or clean

energy, that is the place where the spending should happen and progressive erica payne says we need this kind of subsidy for things like solar and wind power. make your case. >> i want to applaud you for coming out and challenging the dominance that the oil and gas company has. i do agree with that part of what you are talking about. >> just to clarify he wants to cut all subsidies including those for oil and gas. >> i think the question though is all we are really trying to get at is better products and better prices for consumers. that is ultimately what this is about. how do you bring competition into the marketplace. >> competition is in the marketplace. it doesn't have to be brought in. >> i think this is one of the challenges that we face in navigating these especially energy. because what happens now is you are kind of -- it is like you are asking a fifth grader to compete on even playing field with a college student. >> solar and wind are the children who need help. >> i'm using that as an example because right now if i want to

refill my car there are plenty of corners even in new york city where i can go and fill my gas tank up. alternatively, know, pardon the pun, i'm not able to go some where and fill up my electric car. i would argue that we need a bridge from here to there. >> what is wrong with a bridge? >> the argument you make sounds appealing on its face but we are now 30 years into the bridges. we have been subsidizing wind for decades and hydroelectric for decades. this is not a bridge. this is a 10,000-mile highway and it it is time to just say stand on your own two feet, compete, these are big companies. >> respectfully, though, you know, as we have been subsidizing as you said some of these ai alternate search sours we are still subsidizing soil. >> the subsidies for oil and natural gas and coal are trivial compared to wind and

solar. >> comes down to what your definition is, okay. >> it does? >> not to be silly. it does. look at the wars that we have been fight. that is a trillion dollars of a subsidy. i don't think anybody thinks that we went into those wars for any reason other than energy. >> so we fought in iraq for oil? >> so which subsidies are subsidies? >> i need to take that on. i heard that claim before. it is ridiculous on its face. the best way to get to where you say you want to be which is that we have low cost efficient energy produced here in north america is to get the government out of the game of trying to figure out. >> now, you are not responding to her claim that we went to iraq to get oil. >> we went in for national security. i'm a former soldier, i'm a veteran. we want to make sure is this. $15 trillion in debt. ed a a miral mullen said the most dangerous debt facing our national security is america's debt. the last thing we want to do is

waste hundreds of millions of dollars on energy subsidies that go to no good. we have seen what happened with solyndra. >> the next one might be the good one. >> eventually they get a good one. they will eventually pick a winner but we will have wasted and squandered the ability of the competitive marketplace to solve the problem that we want solve. >> your goal is an admirable one. i think we all agree we want the best prices for american consumers and have a secure energy source. the question is how long have we subsidized some of those harmful to us and to what degree are the prices built into. when you look at air pollution for example if you look at rates of children's asthma and the cost of war, all of these different items are not currently priced into oil. >> come on. how about the birds killed by the wind mills going around and the people killed making the wind mill. >> this is a key economic construct. if everybody in america knew

what an externality was then i think we would be better off. >> the politicians can apportion this properly? >> even with the subsidy you propose you still will have an average family of four paying triple for electricity if you move forward in the process you propose. in the state of kansas we have renewable mandates. this is an extraordinary cost that you are placing on the american consumer. if you will just let energy compete we will find the best energy technology. >> and by let energy compete you mean greedy private producers going to try to within the bids. how does it work? >> that is absolutely the case. we will find corporations and individuals that will use their own economic self-interest to find that great next energy technology. it has happened for generations. >> and if they screw up? >> they will pay the price and file bankruptcy and in america -- >> i won't have to pay for it. >> won't cost the taxpayer a

nick on that note, thank you you. coming up, the government wants to regulate your iphone app and it wants you to pay for his student loan. i stay stop it. why are you telling us what to do you booked our room right? not yet, thanks for reminding me. wait, what? i have the hotels.com app so we can get a great deal even at the last minute. ah, well played sir. get the app. hotels.com.

occupy wall street. occupy ut. >> everybody has a right to a free education. higher education. college education. masters, you name is. >> in my personal opinion i would like all of that to be revoked. >> revoke all student debt. that is one demand from the protesters who get so much attention. and president obama has decided to revoke their debt or at least to forgive all student debt after 20 years. used to be 25 years. he also has taken steps to lower the student's interest rate. of course, someone else has to pay for that and as usual that someone else is you. so i say that is wrong.

but news day co columnist alec says that is right. why is that right? >> we said get a college education. when you get out of school you will be off and have a solid career enable you to get started as an adult and, indeed, to pay off these loans. >> john: i didn't they will temperature that. these were politicians and colleges lying to them. >> they did a lot of it. our culture in general sent that message to young people for generations and for those generations it was true. it is not true any more. some of those kids are saying wait, hold on a second if i have this balance and chain of debt on me i will never be able to get my adulthood started. this is a problem and we need to face it. >> john: why would i loan if i knew that government might come in and say we are are going to change the rules of this deal?

>> listen, cheerly individual responsibility is an important value here in kids and you will notice i'm not coming out to forgive every single nickel of student loans. i think we need to take a new look at this thing. >> john: i propose the opposite of that as a new look. how about saying we have been loaning all of these kids money, many shouldn't even be in college because we loaned this money college costs are way up. in fact, we have a graph of that. because of all these government handouts and easy loans, the cost of college has gone up at four times the rate of inflation. we complain about healthcare costs. they have gone up twice the rate of inflation. college is up four times. the colleges have become country clubs because of these loans. >> they still make the kids study, i hope. listen, john, do we really want the consequences of following -- what if all good colleges become only a place where the superwealthy can send their kids? we will have dumb kids of rich people filling princeton and

yale and harvard and middle class kids depending on these loans maybe we will just have v. to say, too bad, college is only for the ric richys? >> john: i don't think that will happen. there are are still plenty of loans out there. if the bank says this is a smart kid and he will have a job and pay this back. the unemployment rate for college grads is 5%. there are many far needier people. how about ugly people and short people. they make less. do we need to forgive their loans, too? >> life is tough all over, no doubt. >> john: and less tough than it used to be. >> i think that we ought to be able to find some middle ground. some where between just forgive everybody and no matter how responsible you are, no matter how hard you work, too bad, we are never coming for you. we are partly responsible for this. >> john: but aren't we responsible for saying keep your promises, this is a contract? i mean some of these kids the loans were so easy they don't even know what they are are

paying. at virginia tech they advertise dining hall serves lobster and london broil. at arizona state they brag about their two 20,000-foot community center with a movie theater and pools. colleges have become country clubs because we are too generous with taxpayer money. >> well, okay, fair enough. but we don't want the other side to happen, right. we don't want it only to be the super affluent kids affording those schools. work hard, pay your debts responsibly. >> john: pay your debts responsibly. >> and maybe we will reward you by giving a little help along the way. >> john: the reward comes at the expense of taxpayers and banks. i want to mention that last time you appeared on the show the other guest was herman cain who is now leading in the polls for the republican presidential nomination and this clip of you

with your mouth wide open has been circulating on tv shows and all over the internet. >> if a woman is raped she should not be allowed to end the pregnancy? >> that is her choice. that is not government's choice. i support life from conception. >> so abortion should be legal? >> no, abortion should not be legal. i believe in the sanctity of life. >> i'm not understanding. should it be legal? it it's her choice that means it is legal. >> no. >> i still don't really understand what happened. but if the camera happened to cut to you right at the moment when you had that look on your face. >> john.org not invite me on your show if you do not want my honest reactions to things that i hear, how about that. >> john: i appreciate your honest reactions. thank you. when we return, government wants to get inside your smartphone and regulate your let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.

when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you from paying up to thousands of dollars... out of your own pocket. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp. when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... with all you need to enroll. put their trust in aarp medicare supplement insurance. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. the prices are competitive. i can keep my own doctor. and i don't need a referral to see a specialist. call now to get a free information kit. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare.

and the advantages don't end there. choose from a range of medicare supplement plans... that are all competitively priced. we have a plan for almost everyone, so you can find one that fits your needs and budget. with all medicare supplement plans, there are virtually no claim forms to fill out. plus you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare. and best of all, these plans are... the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. when they told me these plans were endorsed by aarp... i had only one thing to say... sign me up. call the number on your screen now... and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan. you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, to help you choose the plan that's right for you. as with all medicare supplement plans, you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare, get help paying for what medicare doesn't... and save up to thousands of dollars. call this toll-free number now.

>> john: leave us alone for a change. the politicians and regulators always want to do more. recently there have been shortages of some drugs. you may have heard about that. cancer patients can't get drugs they need. well, why? one reason is that a big drugmaker shut down for about a year, in part, to meet fda rules. the fda is so tough it makes it so expensive to make a drug that often drug companies say we can't afford to make that. so does the fda then say sorry, we'll back off? no, the regulators almost never do that. in fact, now, the fda wants to do more. they want to regulate how your doctor uses his smart phone. they want the poured concreter

to approve mobile medical applications like this one that lets doctors monitor vital signs over a phone. here is the the doctor who developed it explaining it. >> even though i'm away from a hospital i can look at the real time wave form data just as if i was at the patient's bedside. doctors can't be at the bedside 24/7. we have to find ways to bring the data to the the mobile physician any time anywhere and we have done that on the iphone. >> makes doctors more efficient. but the fda says no, no, no, you just can't put something on your phone if it as medical device. what if it doesn't work right. we have to approve it. and most people's first instinct is to say yeah, i don't want some huckster getting rich off of some device that doesn't work right, i want the fda to make sure everything medal is safe and effective. that is the fda's mandate and thinking that way is intuitive.

but lawyer jonathan says what is in too waive is wrong. why? >> the regulations are costly and burden some and prevent essential medical apps from getting into the marketplace. >> john: it might kill me if they are not made right. >> they are being developed by doctors and experts. there are over 200 million mobile medical apps in the marketplace today and not a single complaint that someone has died or been seriously injured by a single one. >> what is the harm in letting the government make sure it is safe and effective? >> there thy is so much corruption at the food and drug administration and so much anticompetitive bias within the agency. >> john: buy corruption, you don't mean taking bribes as far as we know? >> it is almost like that because you have career employees in the political decisions at the agency

deciding how best to lead the agency and if you feather the right nest you will do well for yourself after you leave. and this is well known. >> john: meaning you make it tougher some company's competitor to get in the marketplace and then get a job with the big company. >> picking winners and losers is what it is all about. >> john: and the big companies deal better with the fda. >> they have lobbyists. unlike other agencies, the lobbyists have an open door at the fda. >> john: and what are we losing? >> by the regulations? >> john: yes. >> time. precious time that likes of dependent upon. for scam, mim software developed a simple mobile device that would combine mri images, p.e.t. scans, cat scans all together and produce a superimage that was better for diagnosis. >> right here on your phone. >> right on your phone. to get that through the agency

took two and a half years and cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars. all the while it could have been in use and ultimately it was approved. it is that kind of delay and multiple inquiries coming from the agency on ridiculous things many times that really hurts the american public. >> john: and there is a bias in the reporting and we in the media mess this up because if something does go wrong we make a huge story about it and your fellow lawyers get rich suing a company that made a mistake. but when they delay it for two and a half years and people die we don't know who those people were because they didn't have the thing? that's right. if you take for example earl grant and -- earl and grant wright who created this simple thing, all it was is two sheets of plastic with silicon gel in between that would be used for self-breast examination. it worked in a fantastic way to exaggerate the presence of a tumor at an air early stage a.

>> john: a woman would use this for self- >> that was kept off the market for ten years. cost millions of dollars to get it through the fda. all the while, doctors around the country are clammerring for it because it is so beneficial. what is the risk involved with that. >> i don't hear the companies complaining about the evil fda being too slow. i hear the big companies saying we like the regulation. >> it has a great andty competitive benefit if you are in the sack with the fda. when you are outside there is another risk. if you raise your head above the parapit and become vocal in your criticisms the fda remembers like an elephant and will stamp you out of existences. that is the threat. >> john: they will punish you. >> this person complained about us. we will take an extra week on his application. >> so much discretion in their hands they sit like emperors reigning over this stuff.

>> john: we would like to hear from the fda on this. if you are an fda person who wants to be on the show. give us a call. up next, the government's plan to protect you from street vendors who sell flowers. ♪ [ male announcer ] what is the future of fuel? the debate is over. ♪ lexus hybrid drive technology is designed to optimize any fuel source on the planet. even those we don't use yet. because when you pursue perfection, you don't just engineer a future-proof hybrid system. you engineeamazing. ♪ ♪ you engineeamazing. you want to save money on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem. you want to find a place to park all these things?

fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance. congratulations. congralations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire binesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa !

... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon.

>> john: the motto of the fox business network is giving people the power to prosper. what really allows people to prosper is being able to start your own business and run it without interferences from bureaucrats and tax collectors. however, these days america is crawling with bureaucrats and tax collectors. they make it harder to run a business. now, and then i try to illustrate that by trying to open my own business. here is one i called the stossel store. i tried to sell stuff on the streets of delaware style magazine want to buy a fox t-shirt? >> i didn't say it was a smart

business but this ability to try to succeed is important but america doesn't make it ease. >> y. i had to register with the delaware secretary of state. buy commercial liability insurance. register with the department of finance. >> it was good that i did all this because this cop came over to make sure that i had my vending permit. >> cost me ten bucks. >> yeah, are the city of wilmington will get you. >> all right. but i'm legal, right? >> you are legal. >> what if i wasn't? what if i tried to sell, say, flowers on the street in high hialeah, florida. there i could be arrested if my flower stand is close to a flower store or if i don't constantly move the stand around. >> hundreds of people who earn their living as street vendors in hialeah operate in legal limbo as the city has turn inside a confusing patch of no vending zones. >> the institute is a libertarian law firm that sues governments that limit

entrepreneurs economic freedom and they have gotten rid of laws that make it expensive to get a taxi driver license and laws that prevent monks from selling caskets, just a wooden box. laws that prevent young women from starting hair braiding businesses and so on. elizabeth foley sued the city of hialeah and argues that its street vending law is unconstitutional. raul martinez was the mayor of the town when the law was passed and says heck, no, this isn't unconstitutional. >> what is the proper problem? >> makes it virtually imfob be an effective street vendor. can't be within 300 feet of any big and mortar store that sells the same or similar merchandise. >> they want to get property taxes from brick and mortar stores and the street vendors. >> tax issues are tax issues.

this is about the right of street vendors to pursue their lawful occupation. it is a lawful occupation. that is like passing a law is a that says that mcdonalds can't set up shop next to a burger king. these people are just trying to make an honest living and the city is making it impossible to do so. they say if you are flower vender it is illegal to set a bucket of flowers next to the ground on your feet. >> john: view you have to keep moving and strolling along? >> you have to be in constant motion which is completely unsafe. even if you are on private property with the permission of the private property hoper, you are in a home depot parking lot let's say you have to constantly move around the parking lot. that makes no sense. >> john: mayor martinez why is this is good law? >> you don't want to have everybody in the middle of the streets without some sort of recruiting lakes. in the city of hialeah we are not overregulating everybody. this is one of those lawsuits that people decided they want

to sue and they will do that and it is okay but it is not restrictive. we made it very accommodating long before h her client and the institute even came to the city of hialeah, trust me. >> john: he says he would have vendors all over the sidewalks and people wouldn't be able to walk by. >> there is nothing wrong with legitimate laws that protect public health and safety. that is not what these laws are doing. the only reason for enacting these ordinances is to squelch competition between brick and mortar stores and street vendors. that is not american. >> john: mayor martinez? let him answer. >> you have to understand there la mat businesses that payes property taxes that have a right to survive because they also create jobs. we did back then is got all the groups together and came with an ordinance that was satisfactory to all of the parties at the time. >> john: wait a second, you didn't get all of the groups together because no one knows

who all the groups are. there might be new people who might want to ensure territories the business. you got the established guys together. do you have family members in the flower business? >> no, i don't. never have. >> john: just wanted to ask that. why would i ever open a brick and mortar store and pay property tax if i could save money, maybe $3,000 a year and just have my cart? >> because these are different tripes of business models. a flourest offers special arrangements and delivery and has a bathroom. a street vendor competes on price and convenience because you can drive up and get your now ares and go home quickly. there is nothing wrong with having two different types of business models competing near each other. >> and we do. >> it is not legitimate for government to use its incredible poured concreter to make one business model have an downfair advantage over another. >> you are creating an unfair advantage when you allow that vendor selling in the front of

a flower shop the same flowers that the flower shop is selling and at a much reduced price that is unfair competition. >> would it be legitimate to pass a law in hialeah to say a mcdonalds can't be used to a burger king because they are competing with each other. >> typical attorney you are going apples to oranges. two brick buildings one next to another. >> because just they are brick buildings. >> why do they have to keep moving around all the time? >> because that is the way it was written they must be moving but they don't. they put their bucket on the sidewalk. they do it all the time. >> john: we are out of time. ing thank you. next, are you afraid of china? well, you should be, says my next guest who says china's prosperity threat pe ♪

♪ ♪ walk, little walk ♪ small talk, big thoughts ♪ gonna tell them a just what i want ♪ ♪ i said don't stop, don't stop ♪ ♪ don't stop talking to me [ ma announcer ] the most legroom per dollar of any car in america. the all-new nissan versa sedan. from $10,990. innovation upsized. innovation for all. ♪ innovation upsized. innovation for all. fore! no matter what small business you are in, managing expenses seems to... get in the way. not anymore. ink, the small business card from chase introduces jot an on-the-go expense app made exclusively for ink customers. custom categorize your expenses anywhere. save time and get back to what you love. the latest innovation. only for ink customers. learn more at chase.com/ink

>> john: china's economy booms while the american economy stag nates. will china soon overtake us? should we be afraid? testeven leeb says be afraid. he says china's growing prosperity threatens the way of life. i'm skeptical as it economist

john by dry. he says we should be glad china is doing well. what is the threat? >> the threat is the fact that resources are not infinitely abundant. resources are basically scarce and we live in a world in which all resources are dependent. all you need is one scarce resource and everything else becomes scarce. we focus on oil and it is backing scarce. copper is becoming scarce. goldman, sachs the other day. >> john: the new york times said in 1973 experts say the world will have virtually run out of oil by the world 2000. people are always saying things are scarce and with human in genuity we find new things. >> copper is 350 a pound. compared to maybe 60, 90, a dollar a pound in the 1990s. the point is they are going go up a lot more.

these threats that you heard about in 1973, well, that was when the world's population may have been 1 or 2 billion. i don't know what it was. now, it is 7 billion. china is growing fast. what they have recognized and let me just quote from goldman, sachs the other day, forget about me, goldman, sachs a pretty credible brokerage firm. >> john: sometimes. >> times. but not trying to overly excite people. here was the words that they used in describing copper. they said this three years copper could be unimaginably that is their word high. and it makes all the sense in the world, john. because if you look at grades of copper, grades of zinc, grades of virtually any metal they are going down. >> your response? >> these predictions have been coming down the pike for are 200 years. it is not going to happen. when economies grow people become more creative and supplies grow. it happened in the past. no reason to think it won't happen in the future. china is full of a lot of creative people. if that economy grows and becomes wealthy as it is doing

to the extent they adopt free market capitalism which they are moving toward they he will find ways to create more resources around get more out of existing resources. i have no doubt that resource supplies in the secular trend will be upward over the next few decades, centuries. >> i think you are betting on a technology god. it may have happened in the past. >> john: technology god. i like that. >> i'm betting on human ingenuity. >> where that's been the last 12 years? you are saying there is growth. where is the growth in the u.s. economy when we have 9.1% unemployment. >> this is a recession. >> this is not a recession. give me any other case in history other than the depression when median income have gone down 10% or 12% and that is for the population. for those in the bottom 90%, 15%. >> we are in -- >> where are you? you have a nice tenured job. >> we are in the biggest recession since the great depression.

the downtown in the economy has nothing to do with resource scarcity. >> of course, it has everything to do with resource scarcity. you go and spend $150 a week filling up your car. try and put corn and food on your table when you have record prices for corn. >> get rid of the eartha until subsidies. >> i'm not even talking about ethanol. >> i am. >> talking about food in general. nearly all-time highs. >> i will make you a bet you can pick five commodities and i inflation adjusted price of the market basket of those five commodities will fall over the next ten years. i will make you a $5,000 bet. >> of course, i will make you a bet. >> john: do we have this bet here. >> you can pick any commodity you want. >> well, you pick five commodities. >> copper, oil, corn. zinc. iron ore. >> john: economists made this bet years guy. >> and they lost.

>> no, we won. >> people like me lost but people like me. >> and you continue to lose if you believe that. >> because china with 1.5 billion people more than the world had when the previous bet was made ex--- >> john: do you want to do about it? go over there and bomb them? >> i tell you what i want to do about it. i don't want to let it happen. >> john: how are you going to stop it? >> you create policies that create growth. real growth in this country. >> john: which are what? >> china over the next five years plans to spend 2.5 to 3 trillion with a t dollars on new energy. they have taken over the solar. >> john: like solyndra? >> they are the reason solyndra is busted. they are undercutting us in every which way. >> john: take a look at this chart here. you say it is their planning. >> yeah. >> john: i look at this, this is -- this is economic growth in china. for most of the time hardly any growth. they had all this planning. 100% of the economy was

planned. only when they recognized private property and individual initiative did the chinese economy boom. it is not planning. it is freedom that helped them boom. >> yes, i agree. freedom did help them boom. i agree. if you look at the chart from a slightly different scale you will find that they were growing prior to 1990. not near early as fast. so no argument there. >> planning doesn't work. they used to say japan central planning. >> and i don't want to live like chinese. like the chinese. i don't like them. that is why i say war. i love north america. >> john: last word. we are about out of time. >> the world's population has grown substantially. what happened to the police of recourse prices they will continue to fall as economies like china back more productive. >> john: thank you don and steven. coming up, will they soon pass a law against doing what this kid did? dress up like me? that and other absurdities,

next. ú(h cúcqhpbcdúg

>> john: when one says i should fear china, i just don't get if. i would be scared if i lived there or wanted to do business there. the communist dictatorship is repulsive. i think about tiannamen square and that lone student. we are much more powerful. we spend six times than what they spend. they are a threat to taiwan and japan. but they are not close to o being a threat to the united states. today people say we should fear

china's economic power and their economy is growing faster than ours. wwhy fear that? economic competition is a good thing. it is not like war. war is win or lose. but economic competition is win-win. if they invent superior panels, say, we again fit. a way to make freshwater from saltwater that is good for the whole world. this their economy grows bigger than ours that is okay. it just means there are more rich people that we can sell stuff to that makes americans richer. and a growing china won't steal america's jobs. this they might take away some if they can make iphones and plastic toys more keeply but that is okay, too, because if those things are cheaper that allows us to create other jobs by focusing on what we are making, coming up with ideas for cell phones and growing wheat.

the money we save buying chinese solar panels lets us do more of that. unless, of course our government screws it up and our politicians do have a history of doing that bypassing crippling regulations. crippling businesses with a million rules. this 80,000-pages is just what the feds added last year. how to this is just death bay thousand cuts. every page is a list of dos and don'ts that every business must follow or be in big trouble. these rules will help china surpass us. let's get rid of them. earlier tonight, i showed you how hard it was to get legal permission to open my simple business. it took a week of lawyering and yet i opened this little stand in delaware the state where it is supposedly the easiest to start a business. by contrast in hong kong i once got permission to open a business in one day. >> thank you, sir. >> that is all it took. communist china, even they

recognize that too many rules stifel economic growth. they started special economic zones where they have more free trade, less planning and less bureaucracy and those regions have stunning growth. that is what we need more of in this country. more freedom from these stupid regulations. and again, these are just the federal rules. local governments add more. monday was halloween and that brings out the local rulemakers. in walnut, california, it is illegal to wear a mask on halloween without permission from the sheriff. soon they will pass laws against what this texas boy did. he went trick or treating dressed as me. okay. he is not illegal yet but states do keep passing more rules. last month, illinois joined 14 other states in banning these. cigarette lighters that look like other things like the statue of liberty or this fire extinguisher. they are not allowed to have entertaining features.

there is a justification. kids might start a fire, we better ban these. never mind that the guy who tee designed this and the people who made the mold and materials and packed them and invested in them and marketing and so on are now out of a job and the companies now hire lawyers instead of inventors. are we too stupid to decide whether or not we can have lighters that look like this in our homes? one last example. louisiana just made it illegal for resale stores like thrift shops to pay cash for used goods. now, they have to write a check. this will supposedly make it easier for the cops to track stolen goods and make it easier for government to collect taxes but checks cost money and not everyone has a bank account and check cashing services charge heavity fees but can't get cash for your old furniture in louisiana any more. big government doesn't like it. it is one more reason why we here at the stossel show reject

big government. and we hope you do, too. that is our show. thanks for watching. congratulations. congralations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire binesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon.