greta wire.com and tell us what you think. there is an open thread just posted. we'll see you right here tomorrow night. o'reilly factor is next. good night from iowa. o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o ? >> eric: wonderful book. wonderful book. ♪ ♪ >> eric: this is a fox news alert. guess what, america? we're now $15 trillion in the hole. the national debt just surpassed $15 trillion. that is $133,000 for every taxpayer. that happened moments ago. hello, i'm eric bolling with kimberly guilfoyle, bob becke beckel, dana perino and brian kilmeade. it's 5 verz in new york city and this is "the five." we have more on the debt in a moment. but first up, would it be suicidal for the g.o.p. to nominate the most conservative candidate? ann coulter thinks so. we debate that. war of words between bill maher and elizabeth hasselbeck.

is this tim tebow jersey inappropriate? the fans made so it what is the big deal? "the five" starts right now. ♪ ♪ >> eric: to the top story. surprising comments from ann coulter. she doesn't want republicans to nominate the most conservative candidate in 2012. >> i think the big division among republicans right now are those who think absolutely. this is going to be 1980. we are running against jimmy carter, wrecks the economy like jimmy carter had. we just need to get the most right wing candidate in there. and then there are those of us like me and apparently governor christie who think this guy is going to be tough to beat. the idea we're going to pick the most right ping candidate without any concern about who is going to win is suicidal for the republican party. >> eric: ann, i love you. you are a good friend of mine. a brilliant, conservative commentator. but romney? how about a true conservative, one that believes in smaller government, limited taxation

and this big one, ann, repealing obamacare? >> bob: let me just -- in honor of -- >> eric: hard to repeal obamacare. [ overtalk ] >> bob: it's not that, this is in honor of our missing partner greg. this is one of the stupid similes. taking political advice from ann coulter is taking weight control advice from me and chris christie. she knows as much about politics as my retired senile aunt. first of all, i'm not arguing your case. the most conservative. i notice how -- you almost jumped out of your seat with the debt. christmas morning. >> eric: i'm not happy about $15 trillion. >> bob: but ann coulter, look somebody else who knows what they are talking about make the point. >> eric: go ahead. >> dana: three things that you mention, smaller government, lower taxes and repealing obamacare, he is on record saying he is for all of

those. >> eric: you don't have to be on record for saying you have all of those. but we know he can't be -- his record doesn't show he is against obamacare. massachusetts and romneycare is basis for obamacare. >> dana: i don't dispute he has a huge hurd to clear. but all you have is what people say. take them at their word or you don't. a lot of people skeptical of mitt romney in 2008, for good reason, he worked hard to earn their trust. if you look at the fundraising numbers, they are good. we have talk about the poll numbers and how he only maintained a certain amount. he has not gone down either. so i think that ann's point is she makes the buckley point, you try to elect the most conservative person who is electable. the question of electability is a one that a lot of republicans wrestle with. >> kimberly: eric bolling, sinking ship right now. sorry. >> eric: hold on.

hold on. sink ship, what ship? >> kimberly: your ship with the hole in the bottom. >> eric: can we point something out, kimberly. i love you, but she wanted chris christie to run so we didn't have to have mitt romney. >> kimberly: i get what you are talking about, but she is talking from a different perspective. if the republicans want to win, the end game, the goal, objectsive defeat barack obama. send him packing. evict him from the white house. if that is the goal, you have to pick someone who -- who -- >> bob: brian wants to make a point. >> brian: on behalf of your senile aunt. she is watching. she doesn't know what is happening but she is watching. you should apologize. number two, this is the same woman that could not rally around john mccain because he was too moderate. what is happening four years that ann coulter, conservative conservative who meets with conservatives who meet with other conservatives come down with a strategy. i wonder is she doing something that will surprise you, bob? tactically she is telling the

conservative you can support a moderate because it's better than obama. >> kimberly: doesn't want it to happen again. >> eric: look, every conservative worth their weight in pennies will go for romney if he gets the candidacy, the g.o.p. now is not the time to do that. do that if he does win. in the meantime, hope for someone that does stand for smaller government, smaller taxation. bachmann. rick perry. not ron paul because he has other issues for the most part those two. >> brian: the guys polling the strongest, the mcclatchey poll before the show semi-endorseed as sometimes accurate look at matchup between obama-gingrich and obama-romney. i argue that gingrich is moderate on a lot of issues and seems to do well as is mitt romney. romney >> bob: first of all. ann coulter never gotten

closer to a campaign than to get free liquor at the campaign bar. she noz nothing about politics. this is where she may be missing it. if you have the most conservative candidate, if they don't make mistakes, if they don't make barry goldwater mistakes, one thing you can be sure of, they will turn out the conservative base. when you have a moderate republican like romney, you can have a turn-out factor of .2% of the conservative vote doesn't come out in ohio, and southern florida can hurt you. >> eric: good point. she is wrong but the point we're trying to make here, conservative, like sarah palin would say no. start far right if you have to move it to the center in the general. isn't that the plan? start right and move to central. >> dana: that happens in any primary. think about hillary clinton and barack obama battling it out for the democratic primary. they were far left. i don't think you have to have

work on a campaign know about politics. >> bob: i read her books. >> brian: wouldn't you get -- you might lose conservatives but you pick up independents if you are a moderate. >> eric: listen to sarah palin. let's do this. i have to do this. i am sadbeed, i wish she was in the race -- i am saddened. i wish she was in the race. she would be the one. >> brian: somehow would be your one? >> eric: absolutely. has been for four years. listen to her on greta van susteren last night. >> romney needs to reach out to fiscal and social conservative, the tea party independents and really show his authenticity and explain what are perceived and real flip-flops over issues that he has been called out on. explain what he means today as opposed to what perhaps he meant some years ago. >> eric: i got to tell you, that is what you were saying a minute ago. >> dana: bob, please don't have a heart attack. >> bob: i won't. i promise.

>> kimberly: he needs an antacid. >> brian: revive him. >> kimberly: 100%. >> dana: of course he should reach out to tea party and he probably needs to do more of that, too. we talked about a couple of weeks ago, he went to capitol hill and he shored up some of the house republicans and the senate republicans and endorsed the paul ryan budget. some of the things that he has done strategically have been smart to set him up for a moment where he could -- you look like the cat that ate the canary. >> bob: i'm listening to you. i am saying -- can you imagine who would be a better person on the stage debating barack obama if they were on their game? newt gingrich or mitt romney? >> eric: newt gingrich. >> bob: that is clear. the reason that mitt romney has taken the positions, he had to take the positions. otherwise, he -- this is a republican party that left mitt romney's republican party several years ago. so he is trying to fit in.

i'm not suggesting that he would be a bad candidate, necessarily. but he is much more open to attack than newt gingrich. by the way, sarah palin has 70% negative. >> eric: whatever. >> bob: 70% -- >> kimberly: listen to what bob said. >> eric: you will bring sanity to the table. >> kimberly: please. >> eric: if mitt romney showed up at this point in the race, not after he would become the g.o.p. nominee, but at this point where there is eight potential candidates, if mitt romney were to show up at a tea party rally, how would he be accepted? >> brian: he did octobe septemb2 and in october. on november 2, he was strong. he is trying to endorse it. after a while, if they don't want to embrace you, you have to say maybe this is a group of people that won't embrace me. i have to win despite them. >> bob: if these people don't clean up the park after the rally. >> kimberly: i'm still talking about your sarah palin

love affair. i remember you were in love with michele bachmann. my love affair is paul ryan. >> eric: this has nothing to do with the topic. >> kimberly: i don't care. >> brian: you just love paul ryan? i hope he has cable. >> dana: i had a great point but i'll save for another day. >> eric: another day. should justice elena kagan recuse herself from the obamacare lawsuit? beckel wants her to, believe it or not. he'll tell us why. also, don't forget -- >> bob: what? [ laughter ] >> eric: e-mail us at thefive@foxnews.com.

♪ ♪ >> dana: welcome back to "the five." >> kimberly: should supreme court justice david mckeague recuse herself from the obamacare case? some think she should because she worked for obama administration and helped craft the defense. dana has an opinion of this.

>> dana: this is a clear-cut case. if you have e-mail from solicitor general to general in the department of justice and she said in an e-mail, i hear they have the votes. it's amazing! >> eric: two explanation points. >> dana: i think there is three. the third one means a lot. there is a precedent for this. other solicitor generals have become supreme court justices and they recused themselves. it's hard. if you are the solicitor general, you touch a lot of cases. this one was the signature of the, the signature policy. bob -- >> bob: sorry. >> dana: bob! the signature case for the administration. the question is now the justices have said at least there is a question of constitutionality. that's why they are going to hear it. i think she has responsibility to recuse. >> kimberly: do the right thing. in a confirmation process last year, bob, the republican center asked her whether she would recuse herself and she said she had no role in crafting the government lawsuit. okay? now there is e-mail, that

contradict that. >> bob: well, first, i was not sighing because of what you were saying. it's tough to not be four against one here. do you have to write in a lead that says bob supports kagan -- i do not. four or five liberal of mine watching this show, let's make it clear that was a joke by the producers. very funny. now, let's -- >> kimberly: your brother to the left of that. >> bob: excuse me for a second. if that is your best case, she did not draft the legislation. she did not defend the legislation. she has every right to be on the court. you know who doesn't? wait a second. wait a second. clarence thomas, because his income comes from an anti-obama -- his wife. yes. don't they file joint tax returns? >> eric: i don't know. >> bob: they do. he gets money from people -- >> eric: how about this -- >> bob: he ought to be out. >> eric: both of them recuse themselves. recuse both of them. >> kimberly: knock them both out. >> eric: wait a minute. you want him recused.

>> dana: please. >> kimberly: the miracle hear i got last year for christmas is blown out. >> dana: two justices that said thomas would not be swayed by anything that his wife did or advocated for. those are not conservative justices, they're liberal justices. >> kimberly: good character reference. >> brian: if you look at the e-mail, you can't get the tone. tell me if elena kagan was happy the healthcare law was passed. >> bob: of course she was. >> brian: i hear they have the vote, explanation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. >> bob: what did thomas said to his old lady. they got the votes! >> brian: pass the salt. people can live with each other -- the year is 1993, the last time my wife agreed with me. >> bob: i'm surprised it's that sort period of time. everybody had an opinion on

this. >> kimberly: this is significant. it might have been lost in the traumatic reenactment here that b.k. delivered. here is the deal, you know who larry is? it ain't larry the cable guy. lawrence, the supreme court litigator, supporter and advocate. i have listened to him speak on this issue. that it should be held constitutional. how can you say that there is no -- >> brian: amazing, exclamation point, exclamation point. >> bob: what is the big deal? she is in favor of it passing. part of the administration. of course she will say that. unlike thomas she didn't profit from it. >> eric: that is the problem. she is part of the administration. >> bob: thomas profited from it. you don't think it's important who got money from a ruling? >> brian: she recused herself on petitions. >> bob: she was directly involved with. >> bob: but she has a horse in the race. it's up to her. i would say i want my record clean. there are e-mails that show

she is cheering for it. >> bob: that e-mail is your case. >> kimberly: this is a well settled law. >> kimberly: that is the law. isn't there is a good faith basis to question whether or not she might not be impartia impartial. >> bob: do you think antonin scalia was happy that the law passed? >> kimberly: i don't. >> brian: did he send e-mails? >> bob: no, he was the supreme court justice and passed the bill and vote against it because he'd vote politics like gore versus bush.

>> dana: there are a lot of cases for her to weigh in on. >> --ne -- >> bob: i can't believe you'd say that of all people, on the basis of that. >> dana: yes. >> kimberly: go around the table. brian do you think -- >> bob: i'm glad you pulled the tie up. >> kimberly: you think she should recuse herself? >> eric: i say both recuse themselves. >> dana: kagan out. thomas in. >> brian: kagan career, i'm advocate for her career and for her good and resume not take part in it. >> dana: for legitimacy. >> kimberly: bob, kagan in and thomas out? >> bob: answer for me. of course. >> eric: bob says 4-1, the last segment, "a" block. >> dana: 1-4. >> eric: i know how you feel, brother. >> kimberly: my gosh. >> bob: now i'll feel really sorry for you. hard time sleeping tonight. are you kidding me?

>> kimberly: you have seen gaffes of rick perry and herman cain, and the hits keep coming. since we're fair and balanced we'll show you one of the big blunders in washington. v.p. j.b.! you don't want to miss it!

♪ ♪ >> brian: welcome back to "the five." don't worry, greg will be back tomorrow. on monday night, americans saw emotional story of survival when gabrielle giffords spoke publicly for the first time since she was shot in the head by the crazy gunman earlier this year. at the time, we were reminded

to be mindful of the rhetoric and language we used. president obama gave a speech about the tragedy. remember that? surely, the day after miss giffords goes public and speaks for the first time, nobody in the white house would use any violent rhetoric. right? >> you fired the first shot. you fired the first shot. it's not about barack obama or joe biden. it's whether or not middle class people will be put back in the saddle again because they're the ones that make this country move. >> brian: okay. so much for forget about the violent rhetoric. firefighters were pleased sb-5 was defeated. you are a communications expert. should you say or review his copy. fired the first shot? >> dana: i'll have a

different take on this. if it had not come after people like sarah palin who were ridiculous -- remember, she said i will not -- they went nuts. how violent and terrible. if you make that complaint, you can't do it yourself. it's hypocritical. new york and

my colleagues with "the five." ♪ >> bob: 31 minutes, brian. 22 minutes before greg gets back. hi. welcome back to "the five." >> kimberly: no! >> bob: by the way, you have done a great job. >> brian: thank you. >> bob: you really have. i want to welcome you back to "the five." there is troubling new allegation against joe paterno in the penn state sex scandal abuse. matt packnis worked for penn state team in late '80s and told the sports radio talk show he thinks that paterno could have covered it up.

>> could there be a 30-page university police report on sandusky in 1998 and paterno not know about it? >> impossible. you know, impossible. joe knows everything. everything that goes on, on that campus. everything that goes on clearly in the football program. >> could you see joe paterno covering it up? >> absolutely. >> bob: by the way, has anybody seen anybody who speaks more new york than francesa. >> brian: that's true. wisn host and most successful sports radio host. >> bob: the more troubling thing is, there is no question that paterno had to know about this. we're still not sure what the pennsylvania law is but in a pure moral sense, it seemed to me, he should have acted and acted quickly. now he is about to get himself a $500,000 retirement fund from the university of pennsylvania. if it were up to me, frankly i think if the other guys are going to be indicted for not telling the information they

had, at a minimum, prosecutor should look into joe paterno. i think they're afraid to do it. >> brian: that should be the case they're afraid to do it because of his power. the power he had a week ago as opposed to today is dramatically different. i think they are about to take the statue from in front of the stadium. they have taken his name off the big ten. i am telling you, the only thing that is holding him back, to your forte is because nothing has been decided yet. it's an indictment. you can't say joe paterno knew. you can use logic. logic says the 84-year-old bastion of character is somebody that had to know because he has been so hands on. >> kimberly: of course. how could you not know? anything that knows anything about football and penn state paterno is not just the figure head of the university but had his hands in everything that was important and going on. this information was brought to him directly. that's why people have such a problem with his inability and the fact he didn't act at all.

he just didn't do the right thing here. you can say sorry and then you look at this evidence, he transferretransferred the houses wife for a dollar. give me a break. he knows the civil lawsuits were coming. he was aware of this and he stayed on. >> bob: would you talk your way out of this to cover the communications? >> dana: i imagine what it was like for communication person to get the phone call sunday night that said hey, heads up there is a major child molestation problem and by the way, joe paterno knew about it and we're going to fire these five people. at some point, the communication people deserve some heroic -- some hero's support. i might say you might be on your own. i saw they hired public relations. >> bob: they did. >> dana: i saw that today. i hope i'm right.

>> bob: good group. >> dana: if i were the communications person, i would be advocating for full sunlight on the investigation. let everything out and let the chips fall where they may. >> eric: you and i played for coaches. i played for coaches who were like coaches and owners of teams. they are god. you don't mess with coaches. when they start feeling like they're god -- and paterno would feel like a god, it's paterno. that could be part of the issue. i think we will find out more and more. people knew what was going on. it will get bigger, uglier. more victims. where is the ncaa? they have to come down so hard. >> bob: exactly. they wussed out again. >> eric: they have to get the death penalty. this is far worse than ohio state. >> kimberly: investigatory state.

>> bob: ncaa is ridiculous association i've seen. who would take the coaching job at penn state now? >> brian: not many people. the only thing about the ncaa, they don't have the answers yet. >> bob: they don't have the -- >> brian: that could be the case but you can't ask them to jump ahead of the prosecution, can you? >> eric: why not? why not? >> brian: kill the program? >> kimberly: they know enough. bob! >> bob: check out fox special, crisis at penn state. this saturday, 7:00 p.m coming up, elizabeth hasselbeck one of my favorite people tries to smack down bill maher on "the view" about comments he made about her. we'll show you the showdown. ♪ ♪ can a trading site help make you a sharper trader?

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♪ ♪ >> dana: welcome back to "the five." things got testy on "the view" when elizabeth hasselbeckon fronted bill maher about comments made about her. >> you said now that hosni mubarak release barbara logan he must put her intrepid hotness and in exchange we'll send elizabeth hasselbeck. would you say that again? >> i knew i was coming here and had to spend my whole segment talking about it, i would. it wouldn't worth it. >> you're brilliant. i feel smarter sitting next to you. >> really? i feel like i'm in high school sitting next to you. >> really? >> that is a great line. >> watching bill maher is like being in high school every night. laura logan, the cbs reporter who dis amazing work around the world was in tahrir square in egypt. she was brutalized by some of the people there in the crowd. so, you know a lot about

comedy, brian. don't you think -- is this the cheapest form of comedy to make fun of son like that? >> i think anyone thinks sexual assault is not something to mock. to equate the two is overboard and shows a guy in my mind surrounded by yes people. does it sound funny? the embarrassment should be the panel that laughed with him, the crew that laughed with him. and the audience that joined in. do not understand the border end, when he zillionths there on the couch like saying i wasn't thinking of you and i should have. i went t so far too far. give her credit taking on a comedian that quick-wited. >> dana: one of the questions is did her colleague, the women she sits with on the couch every day on "the view" did they defend her well enough? >> kimberly: i don't think so. >> brian: no. >> kimberly: not at all. >> dana: barbara walters said you'll be fine. i had to deal with the barbara wa-wa thing. >> bob: i swear, bill maher

must stay up all day long to think of things to offend people and have people on my side defend him, which i won't do. it's amazing to me. comedians have an opportunity to say i made a mistake. i should haven't done that. he could have pulled that back. instead, i will say this. her little -- back foot about high school, i will not defend elizabeth hasselbeck that much. >> dana: why? >> bob: because i don't think she -- >> dana: you would defend me? >> bob: you have more substance. >> eric: on twitter and facebook -- >> bob: nothing on me. the bullies. >> eric: bill maher is so wrong, you want to talk about intrepid hotness, that is elizabeth hasselbeck, not laura logan. >> brian: i agree. >> kimberly: do you really? >> brian: i'll back you up on that. not leave you twisting. >> dana: tonight he is at the comedy club and don't forget to tip your waiters and

waitresses. >> eric: i love conservative beautiful -- she is so smart. got to love elizabeth. >> kimberly: this is getting awkward. >> dana: this is how socially inept bill maher is. that night on david letterman he said elizabeth's exchange made him look good. >> brian: he probably agreed. >> kimberly: he said we like each other and play like we hate each other. >> dana: like it's a joke. >> bob: because on occasion you left me stringing up in the wind as they say, that was really -- the opening line about your defense with hasselbeck may be the fourth thing. smart, first, whatever. >> eric: conservative first. i said conservative. >> dana: one thing you have to do as conservative women, especially if you are in liberal circle osar people who don't agree with you and don't back you up, you just have to perfect a little bit of a

look. >> kimberly: can we get a look of dana's look? i love it. moment of silence. >> dana: i used to give that look to ed henry. >> brian: i get that look every day. >> bob: conservative women at 2:00 in the morning at a bar, piece of cake. >> eric: oh, my gosh. >> kimberly: that is so -- you'll end up on bill maher's show. >> bob: argument wise. they can't stand up to it at 2:00 in the morning. digging out of a hole i put myself in. >> kimberly: so at 2:00 in the morning you hit the bar to troll conservative women? >> bob: a 2 at 10:00 is a 10 at 2:00. >> kimberly: you said it. >> brian: who said that? >> bob: bob beckel. >> dana: i'll save this. >> kimberly: please! before we get the full 12-month calendar of i heart the conservative women from eric bolling. all right.

>> dana: we're moving on. poor tim tebow can't catch a break. people are is up jet about this. jersey has been created by fans, we'll tell you what is going on out west, my hometown when we come back. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.

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♪ ♪ >> eric: at day, another attack on tim tebow. this time from the custom jerseys his fans are designing. his fans are designing. i might send one to bill maher for christmas. you are a tim tebow farn, right? >> dana: i like him. >> eric: is tim designing this? >> dana: no, he's not. he's outspoken christian. people like bill maher made fun of him because of that. the fans can do what they want to do. unfortunately it's a distraction for him and he needs to focus on football and the game. >> brian: inaccurate. if it was jesus he'd have more than two completions. >> eric: terrible you said

that. >> brian: we're live. >> eric: pass for a touchdown. >> brian: i'm a tebow fan but he had two completions in the entire game. i know you are upset. >> bob: i am upset by it. those of us who happen to be christian and believe you don't use the lord's name like that. anybody who wears that thing is not a christian as far as i am concerned. tebow should take it off. do you know what we're talking about? >> brian: jesus. >> bob: yes, the one. tebow is a strong condition as i believe he is, he should tell his fans to start using it >> kimberly: you know he is. really. >> bob: but i know that eric is in big trouble at home. >> eric: it all comes back. >> brian: the bronco-jets game tonight. where are you watching? >> kimberly: bob is so happ happy. >> bob: he isn't going to see the inside of that bedroom for a long time. >> dana: you have a doghouse? >> eric: freedom my dog has a house, a bed i can sleep on.

you know why? he's a good boy. >> bob: even if your wife wasn't watching i'd send her a card. >> brian: if mrs. bolling is watching, technically asking if i agreed that elizabeth hasselbeck was hot. you were just curious. >> kimberly: help yourself. >> bob: don't worry about the business side of it after the game. >> eric: great news in the sports world. my alma mater duke university basketball head coach shefchevski becoming the winningest coach. and bob ninety one of his earlier coaches was there to hand over the title. touching moment. >> brian: great moment. bobby knight was his coach and freshman at army when they met for the first time. i thought it was great. coach k. says i love him and feel for you. he looks at him and said you didn't do bad for a kid that couldn't shoot. >> kimberly: i love that. >> eric: do you know the

winningest coach is? we read it wrong. the winningest coach is pat summit, tennessee women's basketball. >> dana: i knew that! on the tip of my tongue. >> bob: i will say this about the duke program. that is one of the basketball programs that graduated more kids, actually graduated them as opposed to two years ago. they have run a clean program. the guy is a hero in sports world. ncaa should take advice. >> he shared the moment with his wife. a great patter in. >> bob: another great man. >> eric: brian, thank you. >> brian: is that it? >> kimberly: well done. >> eric: but time for you to go. see you tomorrow on fox and friends. ♪ ♪