>> that is the stock. >> walmart a target and costco could be knocking on pet smart's door. >> thank you for watching. that's it for forbes on fox. have a wonderful weekend. here's cheryl casone. >> talk about terrible timing. as holiday shoppers are gearing up for the most important season for the economy. the grinch sets in. more companies are announcing major job cuts and that will slam the american struggling economy. welcome to cashin' in. we have wayne rogers and yawn thon and tracey and john and christian dorsey with the economic policy institute. welcome to all of you. tracey, i will start wu. we both like to shop, will more tough news tighten up wallets and consumers in crucial time for retailers?

>> it is hard on the psyche. you hear about more and more lay offs. i love to shop and i feel like i don't have the money to do it this year. i think we are going to see more people get out on black friday and more people sit at their computers and try to get the bargains. and i am not sure they will be spending more money than last year. >> christian, i saw a marketing manager saying they are not optmistic about the retail season and they are concerned because of high unemployment. with more lay offs coming. how big of an economy hit are we expecting this year? >> i think the holiday shopping season is likely to be similar. not disappointing but certainly not spectacular. the news of the lay offs will not have an impact at all. if you are at a firm that announced lay offs you might be concern pull back. but for the rest of the folks

who are at companies that are not announcing lay offs will not have an affect. we have had persistantly high unemployment for a while and at this point, people have general fatigue when it hears to companies laying off workerings that. is par for the course for people. >> wayne, look at the headline accident, 30,000 announced job cut in bank of america. it is not just bankings. adobe and pg&e that are announcing lay offs. >> that's true. and the banks are going to have to do something. four banks monopolize. and every time there is a hicup there is lay offs. the rest of the country, i agree with christian, there, i don't think it is as bad as they think it is. we have systemic unemployment and that will not come back

for a long time. i don't think it will be worse than last year in that sense. >> john, we love our trucks and shirts and shoes we'll keep on spending? >> we'll spend on certain thingings. americans have shown if something comes out they will buy it. a new nike sneakers and ipad, americans are going to buy it it is like vegas travel. you go to vegas and when you are worried about your job. you don't go tentious vens and parties, consumer sentiment is the lowest it has been since jimmy carter. it is christmas and they will buy something but not as much. johnathon. looking at the tradig of lay offs. a lot of times they do it before the end of the year because of budgets and all of that. and maybe this will be the same retail season they had last year. >> the tradition of lay offs.

is that the holiday season for you, cheryl? >> sometimes it is. it is this holiday season, for obvious reason. producers, you know, those folks who employ folks are under attack in this country. they have stimulus programs to stimulate spending and now we have a terrible holiday season. we need to get production and get people to hire folks and make a profit and not make producers the enemy. they are the employers that we made it so difficult on. >> even if people get out. there is not wage increteses in a couple of years and it is not like we had more money than we did. that means you charge it. we were starting to e it come down. numbers are showing that people are hitting the credit cars more than they should. and that may be the outcome. >> wayne, get out the credit

card. they are wanting ipad and iphones and you might as well start the spending right now. you got it ready for us. >> i want you to see this credit card rightney here. there is no credit card in here . kids, i hate to tell you something. it is going to be lean this year. >> bah humbug. and johnathon,where is the disconnect. they want ipads for $700 and all of the jobs lost. what is going on? >> that matters cheryl when folks lose their job. sounds like the panel minimized it. when it is you losing your job it is a big deal. walmart, fanatic, this is a stock, thanks to walmart and apple people are able to afford stuff at a reasonable price. i am thankful for cums like this that makes holiday

shopping affordable. >> heblings up an interesting point. consumers go to walmart that means they don't have mon yethey are going to spend less and walmart as you know, putting out those discounts early this year. >> we all know this. this is not a surprise. people don't have more money to spend. in the holiday season. retailers want to see sal growth. they will not get that this year. and spending increased far beyond most people's expectations and in fact, this is not likely to be a bad year for retailers over all. johnathon, the whole idea that we need to stimulate production. that is fool hardy economic policy. >> and wayne, do you agree with that? >> i think john said something earlier that people are going to spend. the question is, are they going to buy the more expensive item when they cannot afford it there is no

doubt they will spend but they will buy less. >> that is the point as well. and one thing about that is, the record consumption that happened in northern europe and america in the last 20 or 30 years is fueled by credit. same as what is happening in the united states government it is fueled by atm's, and running the second mortgages and fueled by credit cards that has contracted 50 percent . people's savings rate is going up. but that means they are not spending as well. much. >> and consumption is the end of the productive process . we don't node more cash for clunkers but more profit for things like steve jobs. >> great discussion. and bah humbug if they aren't;? did the government just guarantee your car and gas in it will be so expensive, you

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ta double whammy for millions of americans heading out on the highway for the thanksgiving holiday. not only are gas prices at a record time but john said the white house is doing two thingings in draining your wallet. you love to talk energy policy. what do you have? >> no one in the united states government has done talking about it. we are the only country without an energy plan and that is beyond stupid. the key stone xl pipe line that comes over nebraska is being hut down. oil that is produced up in canada. we get all of the co2 emissions and bad f. we don't do that that oil goes to china. 60 piles off of the key west

of florida a chinese driller is digging n the spill is there. we have to clean tup. we don't get the oil and jobs. we are more and more dependent on foreign oil it is ridiculous what the administration is doing. >> cancellation of the keystone pipe line. and regutionulsion that are hindering drilling off shore. are we going in the wrong direction? >> yes, i think we are. and we know that deeper levels there is probably enough oil for several generation and the gas and amount of natural gas is beyond. that is manage we can use. i don't think it will affect you this season. none of this is going to affect oil prices in the immediate futures. from the time they drill and gas gets in your tank is years. that is not going to affect anything. oil and gas market is highly

volatile and that will affect you. >> and tracey, we saw that oil went above 103 briefly which is strange for this time of year, excuse me and pushing gas prices higher again for this time of year. we ar at dangerous levels. >> but not dangerous when we see europe about to implode. europe is affecting us on so many levels. wayne is right. we are not feeling the mistakes as far as the administration is making for years down the road. it is a national security issue and we need to focus on that. it is more than just putting oil on the car. we are reliant on countries that hate us to get oil in the country. that is the biggest problem. >> you know, christian. john has said we need real energy policy. are we go in the wrong direction with regard of policy.

>> no, the administration working with the automakers one committing to doubling fuel efficienciy by 2025 and that will save consumers a ton of money when it comes to gas at the pump and also reduce our reliance of foreign imports by 25 percent. and the regulations on off shore drilling and by require incent vising companies to pay a fair market price for the lease rights is a good thing in the long term, instead of sitting on the assets as they have been doing. they will be encouraged to execute leases where there is oil and gas is available and drill those. that is going to change the market. >> okay, johnathon. hold on. he brought it up and i want to if follow up. when it come to fuel efficiency standarpeds and looking at a report from the epa.

fuel efficienciy rules are going to add 2000 per car because of what the automakers known to do. that is opposite and do you see that happening with automakers? >> that is the green depole to make the use of energy more expensive. you pay for it at the pump. i disagree. the president and this country has an energy policy and unfortunately it is that of environmentalism . this is all about getting off fossil fuels and to me gas and oil is good and we use them to power the modern world and get to thanksgiving with their families it is also medicines and sanitation and machines and the modern world. it is to the extent of restricting with regulation and taxes. this is what the administration does. driving the fuel prices up and harder to use. >> john thon, i agree but how

can anybody rationalize that 60 miles off key west florida i a communist chinese oil rig drilling oil. we can't drill there and it is going to cuba and venezuela and chine a. we get the emissionez and oil spills go on the beaches of florida it is the same in the arctic sea and key stone pipe line. we get the bad. but we don't get jobs and national security. it is a ridiculous policy. >> wayne do you agree? >> absolutely. it is ridiculous . that has to be reenforced to do that. you have 535 morons in washington who vote the other way. and until all of these people who are doing occupy wall street and go occupy occupy the washington mall, that will not change. >> you are going to have gas prices continue to prize especially for somebody like

myself who is in the car more than the desk and office. it is going to hit election year. you will see them back at four dollars right in time for people to go to the polls. the president and administration, it is going to hurt his reelection . yet they fly by the seat of their pants. and that is the greens goal tompt make energy more expensive and difficult to use your car and power your industry and make the modern world possible. they put a natural oil life higher than man. that is a philosophy fundmental to man's suicide and not the greatness and growth. >> christian, all of this is coming out of washington and that policy is going in the wrong direction when it comes to particular off shore drilling. do you think in an election year we'll see meaningful change and will consumer pay

high gas prices? >> they are volatile and subject to the lawings of supply and demand. fuel efficiency standard and reduce demand is the way to go. it is not just the administration. it is the automakers. cheryl it may cost more for a fuel efficient car but will save you twice as much in the reduced amount of gas. that is a huge win for consumers. >> and just think of the savings we have got with solyndra. savings are going to pile up from now on. >> thank you very much. >> coming up. welfare spending soaring to an all-time high. but more americans are living in poverty . now a plan to help the poor. the idea of scrapping welfare altogether. that's a little harder to find.

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>> hello, everybody. sources are telling fox news that moammar qaddafi's song seif al-islam was captured. he will go to libya with talks on the country government on where al-islam will stand trial. >> gop hopeful mitt romney is skipping the thanksgiving family forum tonight. six other presidential candidates will attend. is it a huge political error

on behalf . romney camp? tony perkins will join us in the top of the hour. and two month anniversary of the tornado that ripped through joplin, missouri. we'll look at the residents who are trying to heal. stay with us, we'll have more coming up in the top of the hour. >> here are alarming numbers. spending on welfare sky rocketed 300% since 1990. but the poverty rate hasn't budged but it is higher despite all of the spending . republican senator jim demint wants to overhall welfare. johnathon said getting rid of all welfare would help the poor. >> specifics are apparent. we spent more. food stamp usage is all-time high and poverty itself is

all-time high. it is impractical and immoral. we take it as a given that the massive welfare state is part of the american culture. it is not. it started in the 1930s. government is not a charity. you violate everyone's rights when you make it one it is not government's role. >> christian, changing welfare going to help the poor in the end of the day. >> it is not. there is no surprise we have had more welfare spending when we had a recession. what about corporate welfare. this is an attack in society who are most vulnerable. indigent and elderly and homeless. people on the bottom rung . economic ladder. you want to kick them off entirely. >> wayne. >> to get rid of it is crazy. but they are raising a point

about the ideology. that we are in an entitled society has to be reversed or we'll be like greece. >> it is not just welfare. extending unemployment benefits and more people on food stamps than before under the obama administration. we are forcing people to sit at home and waiting for the next check. we are not helping them make it a better society. >> it is not working what we are doing. look at ninth ward in new orleans it was worse because we threw money in generational poverty. i work with at risk kids. money is not what is needed to break the sickle. it - cycle. it is what politicians do to get rid of the problem. >> thank you, christian. one country in the world to trust with your money. it is not in europe or north america. >> he got the boot as italy's

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our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's another reason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. >> time to what i need to know next week. wayne rogers. >> most of the europe is going to hell in a hand basket. you can trust one country. israel. i like eis. >> interesting. tracey burn. 80 is the new 65. people pushing off retirement because they didn't save enough money. >> john. >> berlusconi and the last day in office debuts a love song album. it was a flop but google music is not where you can buy . google is a good stock. don't buy the album. it is horrible. >> johnathon. and hurting on the treasury shorts. but corporate bonds are