not get thrown off. he had to jump off. >> dave: that looks like a competition. >> it appears that the father did. >> he'll be here tomorrow. and darryl hammond. >> dave: do his best donald trump. we'll see you tomorrow. >> open for business. congress not shutting down. but it's apparently up to the same old tricks and the house passing a 1200 page spending bill without reading it, prompting questions as to how much pork is in it. well, ear marks are banned, something called special projects are not. call it what you want, pork is pork, something our neil cavuto hammered home at the g.o.p. debate. so is a total ban on all pork spending the only way to save taxpayer money? i'm brenda buttner, this is

bulls and bears. >> gary b smith, jonas max ferris along with matt, and suzanne. cut the pork to cut the debt? >> of course, this is like a moral black hole. and 40 of these special projects, ear marks were started by republicans who gained office a year and a half ago because they were against ear marks, what happens is the immorality of this, and then all of a sudden you have to raise money and all of a sudden want to get reelected and guess what, an ear mark becomes a special project and a special project two and a half billion dollars here and a billion dollars there, if we're not going to address the big issues, let's at least bill this thing. >> you say that this is a drop in the bucket when we should be addressing the big issue? >> yeah, that's right, i mean, you've got to look at scale here, we're talking about what, 32 billion a year. >> it's the principle now, not just-- >> and that's a good point,

toby, i mean, if every single dollar of spending is bothersome to you, sure, this is a terrible thing, but it's a small amount of money and not every pork barrel project is a terrible project. >> 32 billion? >> and i don't really have a-- >> that's exactly right. you cut out the bush tax cuts cost a lot more than pork does and again, i don't really i'm sorry be the defender of pork, sure, there's a bridge to nowhere here and there, some of those are excellent. >> let's take a look at some of the special projects of-- from the last time, from last year. here they are right now. we're rolling through them. >> and is this like the small bus, brenda? >> well, you know, look at that. you know, they come in the millions, but they all add up, and gary b. you say that the small stuff really does add up, and they add up to the billions and you know, it's all symbolic, but it all does make a difference.

>> well, you went through the number, the big number quickly, 30 billion, 32 billion dollars last year, 32 billion dollars, i know, just saying, oh, you know, you know, that pales in comparison and things, i think most people in america would think 30 billion dollars a lot of money and it's not that the 30 billion dollars is even spend wisely, brenda, you had a scroll there, but little stuff like 5 billion dollar to the wood industry, to study wood utilization, you would think that would be something the wood industry could do by themselves without our money and that galls me and that's why i think this whole ear mark pork, whatever, should be stopped right now, because it gets to the whole thought process of republicans and democrats thinking that it's their money to spend as they see fit and again, the problem is, they pend it so inefficiently on stupid stuff. >> but, there is something to be said for congressmen doing

things for their district. it's not without merit to actually do something, if it does have merit? >> yeah, that's right, i mean, it's not as though we don't know who, who put the ear marks in, that's the great things about the ear mark system these days as flawed as it is. at least now whose pork it is and you know, promising that you can balance the federal budget by cutting out pork like saying, you can get rich if you stop buying toilet paper. it's not going to work, it doesn't make a big difference. >> i want to remind everybody, that was from last year's pork, but actually, matt, you say, maybe you can't get rich by not using toilet paper, but you want to get rich by cutting out some things from your budget. >> and from double ply to sing many ply. >> off this subject for crying out loud (laughter) . >> clayton:.

>> the starbucks thinking, you cut it out. i'm not going to get rich if you cut out two starbucks a day. >> with congress and our government. they're coming with the same meant we can get away with it. 32 billion dollars versus the fact we're in debt 15 trillion. it doesn't sound like a lot, however, we must start somewhere, if we do not start here where do we start? cut this stuff out and again, as gary b said. it's not going to anything constructive. we're the not making money off this, stop now. >> jonas, you also talk about doing something that is doable. we actually might be able to do this? >> and be very achievable compared to the big picture things they won't touch. whether it's social security, medicare, defense and these are achievable. however, they are small. they don't add up to the two starbucks relative to your daily spending, not even close as far as the percentage of the government spending, but you know, are they really so crazy? the ones that you showed aren't those the way that government handles small spending projects in a weird

way and they've got a managed forest fire situation and they've got to deal with the bo bow we havele. >> there's no debate over it, number two, it's a moral morras that they fall into. who raised money for you this year and then get an ear mark that's going to support you and that's not-- >> can't you tell if your politician is looking up and has the ambitions to be-- >> no, no, wait a minute. >> that's not the constitution. >> the ones looking out-- >> it was actually. >> they're going to get money for your state and ones that have bigger plans, don't want to do it because they want to look out for the country's best interest and not the state they were actually le elected by. you can kind of see who is working for you and who has bigger plans when they do the stuff. >> jonas, i disagree with one point that you made.

you said they're the not burning money. maybe they're not burning money, but moving the money from efficient sources, if i spend the money, i spend it on thoughtful things that i think are going to benefit me or my family or my community. when the government takes the money, basically they're just giving it like a wood industry, they're giving it to the pork industry to study gas, you know, methane gas from pigs and by the way, there is always room for bath room humor. >> but, garrisi spending his own money. on top of this, the 32 billion dollars that they're giving away or whatever you want to call it is a borrowed money. and i can understand 30 years ago, when we ran spluss and you know, there was extra money, okay? but, guys, your a both referring to all government spending and falls in that qualifications. >> yes, absolutely. >> and pork is a bigger issue. >> hold on, let him-- >> what i'm saying is the spending in the pork project is no more or less better or

worse for the economy or government than the other government that's not in the ear marks, and the other larger-- >> and it's not going to make it-- >> and wait, that's not right. so this isn't right. and i'm saying, you're acting like this is the dumbest money they spend. >> it is, but-- >> and our government is run as a business which i believe it should be. you look at every time you spend a dollar. and whatever return. we're getting nothing back by spending millions of dollars on salmon and-- >> turning from social security and medicare. >> i think a higher return than these programs. >> based on your logic, two bad arguments equal each other out. that's not right. there's a process created again, by the moral ambiguity at that this is had a process we should go through and i'm saying that process leads to sloppy money here and on the big things, too. >> no offense, sir, you didn't

answer my question. >> at the bottom of the hour, who neil was making answer tough money questions and why the responses could reveal how to put americans back to work. >> first, what china just did to u.s. companies that's driving the donald crazy. and enough to fire off a letter to president obama. this you got to hear. and in 1942, of course, they were sent away. after the war, as a japanese coming back from camp, he started a little store on main street in seattle. of course they needed some money, and bank of america was the only bank who would talk to my father. and we've stayed with bank of america. we have four stores now, three in the pacific northwest and one in oregon. my parents would not believe how popular it is now.

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[ cellphone rings ] thank you. live streaming audio. advanced charts. look at that. all right here. wherever "here" happens to be. mobile trading from td ameritrade. number one in online equity trades. plus get up to $600 when you open an account. >> good morning, this is a fox news alert. it's a working weekend for the senate as you can see, a short time ago senators passing two month extension of payroll tax cuts for almost every taxpayers. they passed jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed. and they're now so the voting on a bill to fund the government for the rest of the fiscal year and sad news and

brand new video from the philippines today showing the aftermath of severe flash flooding there, pounding rain from a tropical storm swelled rivers and sent walls of water rushing through towns, a lot of folks were asleep and the death toll continues to rise. so far more than 400 dead. keep it here on the fox news channel, we will have the latest on the breaking news stories. i'm jamie colby. back to bulls and bears. >> china trying to put the brakes on u.s. automakers, slapping as much as 22% tax on cars made in the usa. and china says it's to counter u.s. subsidies and has donald trump fuming and demanding that president obama get tough on what he calls economic terrorism. matt, does the the donald have it right? >> i'm actually going to agree with donald. i don't agree with the terrorism term he uses, but anytime goods made in the

united states the foreign country puts a tax or tariff on it costs more for the citizens to by that vehicle or product. less demand for the product and less coming out of the country of course the economy slows down in that sector. and china is the largest auto market out there and slowed this year at the slowest pace in 13 years and keep in mind, gm gets a huge amount of their sales from china. we saw 20% growth in the month of november. you see gm, ford, once again, looking for bailout money because of this. >> is that giving too much to china? >> i think it is. first of all, i think we've put a tariff on flip side on the tires we import from them. i guess it's goose to gander kind of argument. the other thing is, look, if donald trump thinks this is going to stop the auto industry, he needs to look at the auto industry. chiles sold 40,000 chars to china and said $1500 a car,

which probably about, about right. so they-- so even if every car sale to china goes away because of this. they lose $600,000, i hope chrysler can sustain a $600,000 loss. >> that's rough and-- >> most of gm's cars are made in china, matt, number one, and number two, where was the donald yelling when they hit the 65% tariff on it. 20% is on top of the 65 to 80% that exists. >> the economy started slowing, toby and that's hurting. >> at the margin they've added about 10% more onto the bill and the second thing, what's good for the goose and gander, what happens with japanese cars and buying the cars here? because of the dollar yen and because of tariffs, that we were charging on trucks coming into japan. >> and exactly made my point for me, then we move our plant out of the united states into china and make the cars in china and then hurting our economy and losing jobs. >> boy, you guys are a good team.

now, let me go to somebody who can actually make the point by himself. >> oh. >> jonas, history-- >> jonas? we don't have five minutes. >> history shows us this could be a broad problem. >> yes, i'm still trying to let it be clear that chrysler makes money selling cars, i wasn't aware they made money selling cars and hence the massive government bailouts they got. and wouldn't have two car companies we have if it wasn't for government support in our industry. now, they support all of their dozen crumby car companies, too, tit for tat. and these tend to escalate at the economy slows. and it's getting ugly and we mentioned the tire thing and what happened in the depression and caused it to linger, countries are concerned and slow down and hurts the economy. and it'd be nice to stop the tariff stuff they've done more than we have. but we're as bad as we are in many ways with the auto

industry support. >> and stephen, you weigh in here. >> and i've got to tell you, this is such a phony, silly debate because china's car market, this idea that they buy, oh, they buy so many cars and we don't want to get cut out of that. that's the most boring car maker in the world. average chinese car $5,000, gm, chrysler, they have no business trying to make cars that sell for that kind of money. and they should be focused on job lines making cars that americans want to buy. >> there's the key. >> they don't want to-- >> and first of all, like saying that more profit there. >> like saying the japanese only make transistor radios. >> no, no, chinese's car market they're going to compete the low end which is our market, chrysler and gm the not going to compete with mercedes benz. >> who cares? >> who cares, china? >> and without that market there is no gm, there is no gm

without international sales and take away china and who cares, interest goes gm, then what do we do. >> if you look at profitability of gm. >> we don't wire about selling cars in india, and selling cars in-- >> and the largest market in the world we have to worry about it. >> and later on when these consumers get the money to afford high quality cars they'll come chasing after ours just like we buy german cars from bmw and mercedes. >> are we going to snap our fingers, a lot of indians can buy our cars and maybe think about getting that together. >> and yeah, when they-- >> sorry, that's got to be the last word. forgot what china's doing. it's what u.s. ceo's are saying that has someone here worrying about everyone's job in 2012. i'm trading everywhere...

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. >> clayton: a big oh, for the ceo's. and what's in the pair nor

>> hope for a brighter economy in 2012 may be dimming. majority of ceo's now saying they won't be hiring the first half of the year. and that's not all that is worrying toby. >> i hate to be the bearer of reality here. thirst off, it's percolating along great is insane. do people think we'll have a gdp. impossible because of the headwinds we have. number one. number two, if it starts with home, we still have one year of homes and inventory as we get these foreclosures out of there. until we get to the three or four that are not there and finally the real evidence, look at the 100 billion dollars of stuff brought back

after black friday and by people who came home and said, what was i anything? we're living on a very low growth economy which is going to be with us a very long time and if you don't believe that, you're kidding yourself. >> and more big banks laying off and morn stanley, latest and the production numbers are falling. >> no question. >> got the retail sales number. >> 2% growth is what we're going to be happy with and people who think 4% aren't doing the math. >> gary b, are you as cautious as toby. i think that toby has a very good rear view mirror, let's look at the bright side. and-- >> the camp like corporate profits were higher than they were at the peak in 2008. house old debt to personal income is lowest it's been in 20 years, and people have a lot of money in their pockets, unemployment, which is the big number, not homes, which grie is important. unemployment has flattened and will probably improve. the housing sector has at least flattened for now and probably show a little bit

improvement next year and you know, companies have a gigantic amount of cash on the sidelines and everything is primed for the market and the economy to go up. not down, and i do agree with toby that we'll kind of being limping along, but i'm a lot more optimistic than he is. >> but, unemployment is the key here, isn't it? and we're still high. >> and high, looking historically, but just this week, actually weekly jobless claims best level than we've seen in three and a half years, and making strides and the gdp growth that the country is going to havement 2, 2 1/2% next year. that's not recession, that's when the number turns negative. growth 4 1/2 to 5%. it's know the great and not running that the market's going through the roof and hit all time highs, but it's chugging along the worst that we've seen in decades and this is not that bad. >> the ceo's have come out and said, they're not hiring because it's demand. number one, number two, the

productivity investors allowed them not to invest and the real thing, 150,000 jobs a month tore three months and that's not close. we need 300,000 jobs to get-- >> the ceo's can say all they want. they talk about the corporations as mentioned. and after tax profits and companies are making-- >> and hold on, let me get to everybody, jonas, what do you think, recovery or no? >> things look good now, but the headwinds are bad and the biggest one, real estate is a huge one and right now we're in a regime of stimulative. and low tax cuts and this is all eventually going to go away and that's going to hit us when, i don't know if we can handle it, handle losing the tax breaks for a year or two necessarily on top of rates not being so favorable. >> and suzanne quickly, recovery? >> and listen, the rebound has been going for two years, yes, it's been a little weak and housing has been a head wind and i think we're fine and spoiled because we have the clinton 90's that's normal and

wrong. 2%, 3% is normal. >> clinton 90's. >> thanks so much and new for joining us. up next, zynga stock not zinging on the debut. but one has game when it comes to making money. that name and feeling kicked in the the fanly? why taxpayers may finally be getting some justice today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪

>> predictions. and gary b? >> brenda, fed ex is still shipping like crazy for the holidays. not too late to jump on. up 30% into next year. >> a little late. okay, and jonas? >> the sec is finally going after ex-fannie executives. i was looking for them to go down, but-- >> toby what do you say. >> he's out of his mind and it's obvious. >> the pat. >> ne said they see fracking