>> no-brainer, it's a blowout. >> we're going to watch it so you don't have to and we'll talk more to nicky fitness in the after the show, show and there may be a pushup off. >> we're going to talk about fighting and boxing. >> unemployment inching down just as a big union push is ramping up. president obama catching flak for making three recess appointments to the national labor relations board. forget if it's legal. someone here says this big favor for big labor is a big roadblock to any jobs recovery. hi, eastern, i'm brenda buttner. this is bulls and bears, let's get right to it. here they are the bulls and bears this week, gary b smith, tobin smith. jonas max ferris along matt mccall. matt. when we see unemployment coming down you say this move

is threatening to send it back up? >> it is, because this move is helping the big business, the big unions right now which really are not creating jobs. we're coming out of the recession and seeing the small private companies creating jobs and entrepreneurs coming out and that's when we see it coming out of recession, this move, in my mind, putting these three people into the positions are only going to go back to union, big labor. and what's happened to this mess, brenda? >> take a look at gm. gm he we got in the mess because the unions do not work in this day and age and in my mind going back to where we were. >> brenda: okay, jonas is smirking. >> i thought we got into this mess because after housing bubble that was caused by the most unlabor-- the most onion labor force, which is bankers, et cetera. and the unions. >> brenda: okay. >> getting back to this. first of all, we did talk pretty good jobs figure this week and the only part of the economy that's shedding jobs really is government workers which have the highest

unionized rate of the work force, pretty much. right? it's obviously not that big of a problem that this-- >> made my point, jonas. >> no, the point is there's firing going on in government workers and more representation than private sector workers and my point is that this agency isn't that effective nor are unions stopping hiring? >> gary b, will the appointments help or hurt the jobs recovery? >> well, brenda, it's got to hurt. you know, jonas may be right. that to date. they haven't been effective, but certainly with the new recess appointments, the nlrb has been strengthened on the pro union side. and brenda, we talked last week and some of the points that we brought up, the growth rate of unionized firms is zero, the unionization leads to higher unemployment, unionization is the basically like a 30 percentage point tax increase on companies that have them. so, we know that unionization is not good for the economy. we also know on the flip side,

the nlrb is pro union and they're an apartment accountable agency to all-- to no one. so, right there. you put it altogether and say, does this look good for the economy or bad for the economy? you have to conclude, bad for the economy. >> all right. steve, you answer that. >> well, that's completely false, about the nlrb. and they are not able to-- >> and where are the-- >> they're not able to false management and labor and not able to bring in binding arbitration as the employee free choice act called for. there's zero correlation between strong economy, weak labor. when our economy was the biggest part of the world's economy in the 1950's was when we were at the peak of our unionization. >> 1950. today in germany, which is doing quite well economic dri, there's been workers have 50% of the representation on the

board of directors. they call it co-determination and also, finally, in 2009. suppose we passed the employee free choice act. we would have had an increase in wages and that's when it matters, when you have an economic down turn and you don't have the drop off in consumer demands. >> i've got to let toby get in here. >> like on al gore side. and if this was so great. why would indiana have the first order of business to make a right to work state. the idea of right to work state. if you take the right to work state. in order unionizations is not forced for unions, and the right to work, the states are killing everybody and those businesses are great. they're attracting new people and you can't compare germany, come on, steve, to the united states. much smaller and an integrated system. and they also, have a businessmen talent that many of our states don't have. and so, i would-- if you just use the facts, you can't support this and if

they're so great. why have jobs gone down, down, down. >> we're better off when we're pro labor and pro business when we're working together. labor and business. >> go ahead, steve. >> well, i would point out that the peak of our powers, the peak of our power may be industrially was in the 50's, but that's because most of our economy was in-- >> i would say the peak of our economic power ramped up after the 50's as the unions are in decline as they have been in the 30 or 40 years and you only need to look at the demise of let's see, big stealings big auto. garment manufacturing and airlines and see the crippling affects and jonas points out the government, you want that to be the icon of how great unionization is? come on, steve. >> matt, there was recently an issue with the national labor relations board and boeing, for example, that even before these recess appointments, so, there is some, there might be

some confusion in companies, in big companies about what they can do. >> yeah, i mean, and steve talked about them not having much power. i think they have much more power than a lot of us perceive. when it comes to boeing, from one state to another. to me, that's very important. because, as a private company should be able to really do whatever you like and end up hurting jobs and boeing is going to say i don't want to deal with the regulations and move my plant overseas and what happens the unemployment goes through the roof. let jonas get in here. >> the nlrb case, they didn't win. what jobs were lost because of that? boeing pretty much got what they wanted, right? so it shows you. >> but they tried, jonas. >> and tells you. >> you guys are missing the point about who is appointed here. >> and to your point. how does nlrb stop the states becoming a right to work state. >> they're trying to put it together. the guys that they appointed

are directly from the unions, now, if if you're stacking the deck, what are you doing. boom, he's in. take another word from the department of labor. the deck is stacked in our labor, and you can stack very, very heavily against unions. and we're going to-- and signed up and can't get an election. >> it's not the 40, 50% of cost over other workers what they're losing because they're not profitable. that has nothing to do, steve, i'm sure. >> i stand by what i said. more unionization would be good for this economy. and-- >>, but, but. >> we have the government having to step in now on health care. everybody who belongs to a labor union, in a unionizeded industry where there is an agreement. a labor agreement between management and workers, has health insurance. the government doesn't have to pay it then. that's the way it should be. >> and you can be a-- >> i'll go along. >>, but not your own facts. >> and i will go along, steve if you can show, look, i can

come up with study after study showing that unionization is bad for the economy. i'm willing to go along with your point. look, i always look what the facts are. you show me the study or professor or whatever, the economy that's done better with unionization as opposed to nonunionization and until i see that, i don't believe it. >> our economy, unionization saved our economy in the 1930's and the 1930's is not the year that-- >> and do you think that our economy is stronger now than it was in the 30's? i still think it's stronger than now it was in the 30's. >> brenda: hold on now, wait. >> it's not stronger than it was in the 50's, when he had the-- >> you don't think our economy is stronger now than it was in the 50's. >> brenda: wait, let me just aed to jonas' point, please. >> just for the record. the industrial revolution wasn't in the depression. >> brenda: we have to wait for that note. >> benny goodman is on the other line. >> brenda: all right. you want to know why voters number one worry is still the

economy. neil's gang says it's not because of the job market. it's the supermarket. i'll explain at the bottom of the hour. first, here, need a job? how about a pay raise? then give your uncle sam a call. yep, the new white house pay hike plan that will cost all of us. most powerful trading app ? total access - to everything. from idea to research to trade. including financials, indicators and real-time streaming quotes. whether you check your investments every day or every minute, our app can take them from thought to trade. at scottrade, seven-dollar trades are just the start. try our powerful mobile app. it's another reason more investors are saying... i'm with scottrade. this is mary... who has a million things to pick up each nth on top of her prescriptions. so she was thrilled that her walgreens pharmacist

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a u.s. counter piratesy team. freeing the crew from pirates who were holding them hostage. iran's foreign ministry calling the rescue human taern and positive act. and showing an iranian crew member hugging an american soldier. i'm jamie colby, back to bulls and bears and i'll see you at 1 p.m. eastern here on fox. >> brenda: millions of americans still looking for work and those with jobs praying for any type of a pay raise. well, federal workers prayers may be about to be answered. reports out say the white house is looking to hike government employees pay after a two year freeze. toby, you say they should be cutting, not liking pay? >> yeah, i'm praying for this. we have basically in the private sector, we haven't had income in ten years, could be 20 years if you went inflation-wise and these guys have gone up 20, 25, 40%, we're in an economy and an environment now where we need

to cut spending and since labor is 70% of the cost of government is just like business, any business sense would be that we would cut it. that's the sensible thing to do and that's the right thing to do. and it has nothing to do with economics. >> brenda: steve, what do you think? >> two year freeze, 1/2 a percent increase, i think that's fine. you know, the private sector has been creating jobs at a very decent clip now, for the last six months, but it's been all set for every two private sector jobs, we're losing one public sector job and we do have to-- we have to cut spending and some of that is because the states were irresponsible with their pensions and that's inevitable, but it's going to be a drag on the economic recovery if it goes too fast. i completely disagree that we should be cutting the pay-- >> see, the private jobs are 20% less than the public jobs for crying out loud. >> brenda: and gary b, toby makes his point. >> i disagree with that stat. i don't think that's accurate. >> i tell you, the bearish

thing of all would be if somehow the public sector complication, including benefits, was linked to what you can make in the private sector. now, it's completely out of bounds and they're making like 30, 40% more than the private counterparts. that said, i have to say i kind of agree with steve. look, yes, toby makes some great arguments, but, the fact is they've been two years without a raise, and they're not even getting the raise that keeps up with the cost of inflation. i'm not thrilled about it. i like kind of my proposal better, that said, i can understand it from a government employee perspective. >> brenda: i know, i know. it's hard to, hard to believe this. >> look at the numbers. >> brenda: go ahead, matt. what do you think? >> well, first of all, okay, you haven't had a raise in two years and now getting a small raise. i understand that and how about the facts that you have to have a job. a lot of people in the private sector who have been unemployed for two years, working their butt off trying to get a job and i don't want to hear this raise thing. and-- >> you are mean.

>> more than their private employees. if you take in the benefits and everything else, the pensions, four times what the private employee makes, so, to me, you should be very, very happy you have a job in this point with the pension coming on on top of it. >> brenda: jonas, is this boost that isn't keeping up with inflation, is this boost fair? >> no, it's another pay cut, isn't it? social security was adjusted even higher than this amount. in fact, i've got to tell you, if the republican president proposed a-- you see the democrats come out and how unfair it was, like, this is a very short end of the deal and in fact, you can't blame the multi-decades of federal and state and local government overpaid. the fact of the matter is, the last two or three years, look at the payroll again, the state, local and federal workers are taking it harder than the private sector and-- >> i acknowledge that, but that isn't the fault of the current administration, three decades gets overpaid, all i'm saying, they're-- >> okay. >> okay, okay, we've got to

end it here, thanks, guys. our neil cavuto already getting ready for this tuesday's big primary vote in new hampshire. if you missed his marathon coverage on fbn caucus night, you really missed out. . >> are push for the presidency has officially started. we're staying on until a winner is declared and dora the explorer is on at 5 in the morning on some stations, dora, looking at you. we're waiting for the numbers and announcement of some sort is expected soon. now, this word soon was used about three hours ago. and we're not stopping. we're here around the clock. i'm going to be like the guest who refuses to leave your home in the middle of the night after a party or in pay-per-view and raiding your refrigerator. i'm going to keep doing it all year. >> brenda: it was good. you better be ready now, neil

is back at it on tuesday night new hampshire primary with live market reaction and big name guests like herman cain and back on saturday, january 21st for south carolina's primary, first here on fox news and then on the fox business network. watch it. and profit. coming up here, dancing for environmental, sounds like something al gore would do. but our kids believe it and you're paying for it. beth!

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>> coming up, organic food and photography, what do they have to do with our tax dollars? another epa had you.

>> know this. uncle sam spent roughly 1 million dollars last year so kids could learn about the environment by dancing, i'm not kidding. it helped had theers become environmental stewards and taught land loads about safer ways to kill beg bugs. i can't make this up! gary b, you say using tax dollars for bed bugs is outrageous and the epa using our money to promote the agenda is unacceptable? >> absolutely. i agree there's a role for the epa. certainly, someone has to be a landlord, if you will, for the country and i understand that and they have to enforce the laws and come up with laws and all of that stuff, but they're going way beyond it now. being so proactive. it's like the landlord of your co-op, going around to everyone, give me money because we want the teens in the building to dance to keep the building clean and ridiculous at this point and one more great example of government overreach. and a government agency the

only way to survive is grow your power base, that's what the epa is trying to do. >> i think one is they're spending taxpayer money forgive -- frivolously. from a man who has bed bugs, and i'm not against the taxpayers money helping that out and. >> hang on. >> and pushing a green agenda and the president once again and the government pushing a green agenda with our taxpayer money. >> brenda: i know it's going to be tweeted from this show. okay, jonas, go ahead. >> about the bed bugs. first of all, who, but the environmental protection agency should be pushing a green agenda. that's actually their job out of the agencies in the government. first of all. >> no. >> second of all the epa on a good week brings in average how much this thing costs in fines and some of this money came from a cement company l.a. and it's not all taxpayer money, it's like the sec, they correct mine in fines. >> should they be teaching,

toby, teaching kids to dance. >> i'm moving over from matt here. i'm a little confused by the idea that this is environmental justice. and who defines justice and obviously, these are ear marks, and if we were, a great economy and huge amount of excess money, maybe. >> we don't, this is insane. >> steve? >> you know, i think you've kind of grants have a positive effect. we can't afford them right now. the biggest threat to our-- >> someone's got to stand up. >> to our economy is the budget deficit, the debt. we're going to have to go through and get rid of expenditures like this, i'm sorry, i agree with most of you guys. >> way to go, steve. >> and you don't want the agency cut. there are policies, cutting this and-- >> you cannot say that with a straight face. >> they're existence, i'm not saying they have to. >> and that's what i would do if i ran the agency and i want to-- >> well, can i say thank you,

jesus, he does not run our agency, by the way. >> if i did, we would not have bed bugs. >> this is just one of five of 50,000 of these things, you just can't take this in isolation, this is hundreds of billions of dollars of waste and about as frivolous as i've seen it, minus the bed bug thing. >> brenda: so, tell us more about the bed bug thing? [laughter] >> and maybe-- >> all right. thanks, guys and thanks to steve for joining us. take that, tiger. the golf pro's ex-wife tearing down a 12 million dollar mansion. now, you can profit when she rebuilds it next. emily's just starting out... and on a budget.

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>> predictions. >> we fall to the lowest level in three years and the staffing companies must be ready. and i think up 20% in the next six months. >> gary b.

what do you think of that. >> two words, bed bugs. [laughter] >> okay. gary? >> you know. >> brenda: so you're a bear on that. your prediction, gary b. >> delta airlines, just scored and it's flying high, get it, on its customer service ratings. and i think it goes nicely what i think is increase in travel. and delta up 50% the next months. >> brenda: matt, bull or bear. >> obviously, a bear on this right now. i think that the airlines-- >> two words, gas prices. >> brenda: jonas, your predictions? >> the consumer electronics show is going into vegas next week and corning is going to introduce their second gorilla glass two, stronger and new futures of every smart pad and iphone are going to need. >> brenda: tobin, bull or bear. >> the fact that they lost morning doing that, no, i'm a bear. >> brenda: and your prediction. >> and tiger woods tearing down the house, it's going to knock this house down and knock your portfolio higher.