to greta wire.com and let us know what you thought about tonight's show. there is going ton -- to be an open thread. we'll see you tomorrow night on the record [applause]. he worked hard in this state and invested in this state and the people of new hampshire gave him a very-- >> and this is a fox news alert tonight. right here in new hampshire, former massachusetts governor mitt romney was declared the winner of the first in the nation primary, claiming second place was texas congressman ron paul, while surging is former utah governor jon huntsman and rounded out the top three tonight and at the very moment, rick santorum and newt gingrich are locked in a dead heat for fourth place and senator santorum is speaking now and we'll listen in a little bit more. >> and the true conservative who can go out and do what is necessary not just to win this race, and we can win this

race. [applaus [applause]. but to be the conservative who understands that at the foundation of our country, our institutions that are crucial for us to be a successful nation. families, families that are bonded together as the foundation, that instill virtue and faith in our children, to build strong communities and build a great nation from the bottom up. that's the message, along with a government that understands that we have to create a playing field for all americans of a variety of different skill sets, to be able to be successful in this country. and we have a message that can appeal, not just in south carolina, but across this nation and in particular in

the states that are necessary for us to win this election. in the states that are the swing states, like pennsylvania and ohio and indiana, and michigan. and the states that i've been successful, like in pennsylvania and winning elections, ladies and gentlemen, we're not only going to go out and deliver a message of the basic needs, the basic structure and the foundation of our country, be it faith and family and opportunities society. but we're going to do so, understanding that with faith in the american people, we cannot only wipe out this deficit, we cannot only rebuild this economy, we cannot only have a strong america who stands up for the values that i just talked about, but we can do so in a huge victory. >> all right, that is senator rec santorum and we're going to go live and listen to former speaker of the house newt gingrich who moments ago took to the stage. >> the fact is, the

entrepreneurial free enterprise system which attracted people from benjamin franklin to the wright brothers, to henry ford, to thomas edison, to bill gates, to steve jobs, that model of maximizing the development of new approaches, new energy, new opportunities, new technology, has raised the standard of living of people across this planet more than any other system in the history of the world. with your help -- [applaus [applause]. you've been wonderful to us here. and i'm asking each of you, not to slow down. in the next couple days, make a list of every person you know in south carolina and every person you know in florida, 'cause those are the next two great contests and i believe as we get to south carolina, as the choice becomes clear, as people

understand that there is a bold reagan conservative approach of lower taxes, less regulations, more american energy, a sound dollar, and actually being in favor of creating jobs, the opposite of the obama program, of higher taxes, more regulation, less american energy, and attacking the people who create jobs, look at those two models. i believe we can reach out and we can create a majority that will shock the country and a majority that will begin to put us back in the right track. it is doable. it is a daunting challenge, but consider the alternative. if we do not go the extra mile and we do not offer a vision powerful enough to unify americans, and we ten down the road that obama has us on, but more than obama, bureaucracy has us on, the judges have us off, the entire pattern of how washington operates.

more years of decay, more years of inadequacy, more years of falling behind, more years of growing weakness, that's the alternative. i believe that it will take someone who is capable of debating barack obama face-to-face, delivering the conservative message, winning the argument in order to overcome his billion dollar machine. with your help, as your spokesperson, representing your values on behalf of our children, our grandchildren, and our country, i will do everything i can to win the opportunity to represent you this fall in debating and then defeating barack obama. thank you, good luck and god bless you. [applaus [applause] >> that was newt gingrich, and we're going to campaign

carl cameron and joining us with an update from mitt romney's headquarters, i'm sure a celebratory mood. >> a fairly short speech from newt gingrich there, sort of reflective of how he fared this evening. he'll go on to south carolina as will mom. they're breaking down the set here and headed down to the palmetto state. mr. romney will campaign in south carolina, and there's a possibility that as he begins to impress the possibility that he's a juggernaut nominee, he may go to florida before the week it out. there's a debate in south carolina on monday and that's the next time the candidates go shoulder to shoulder and interesting if indeed if we see all of romney's four rivals, that is the five candidate debate on monday, and there's always the possibility that one of these candidates who fared less than expected could reconsider the next 24 hours and pull out, but we have heard from most of them tonight and made it clear they're not going to do that. rick perry is in south carolina, already digging trenches for battle and he's

been attacking mitt romney pretty aggressively. and romney in his remarks today did talk about what he said was desperate attacks from rivals on his free enterprise history at bain capital. but other than that, mitt romney was focused on almost entirely on the occupant of the white house, casting himself as the presumptive nominee to oppose barack obama. listen. >> we still believe in the hope, the promise, and the dream of america, we still believe in that shining city on the hill. we know that the future of this country is better than 8 or 9% unemployment. it's better than 15 trillion dollars in debt and broken promises of the last three years and failed leadership of one man. the president has run out of ideas, now he's running out of excuses. and tonight, tonight we're asking the good people of south carolina to join the

citizens of new hampshire and make 2012 the year he runs out of time. >> romney had a very, very aggressive and comprehensive established organization with most of the republican power players in new hampshire. in south carolina, governor nicky haley and john mccain who won four years ago is going to campaign there as well. were he to win the south carolina primary 11 days from now, it would be more historic, no one has won all three in a row and what he did winning the first two, the first time it's ever occurred, sean. >> carl cameron on the campaign trail and joining me with the results. the governor of the great state of texas, rick perry is back, sir. >> great to be with you. >> we heard from senator santorum and shows there's a race for a conservative alternative to mitt romney, it

remains wide open and all three of you are saying the same thing. is there a chance you split the conservative vote you all seem to be appealing for tonight? >> well, i think that the campaign that we put together here in south carolina is really strong. i have got the speaker of the house, endorsed, aen really serious conservatives and that's a message that's going to resonate with people from south carolina. and people who get it from the standpoint we need an individual who's got a track record of creating jobs and mek made a powerful presentation and he looked at all the candidates and only one that's got the record job creation. a lot of people talk about what they're going to do. i've done it in the state of texas creating a million jobs and that's a story that resonates here in the palmetto state.

it i cannily you look at the assault they're under by the administration, whether it's the justice department going after their voter i.d. law, immigration law and of course the boeing story, and texas being a right to work state and that's working every day to push back on this administration. and those are stories that really resonate with the palmetto state voters. >> let me ask you, governor, because i've been following your speeches as you've been going around south carolina. you are talking about the success of texas. you are making comparisons about the obama economy, but you've also had some very harsh words about governor mitt romney who now has won iowa and new hampshire and you talk about days at bain capital and companies like this, they leave the carcasses behind. bain is a vulture capital company, they walked into south carolina, a company like gaffney, they picked the bones clean of those people who lost their jobs in the same mill. you say rather than

restructural jobs they're trying to make money. and ethics get thrown out the door, make as much money as they can in a hurry. you know, when i hear that, it almost sound like occupy wall street, it doesn't sound like is be who is governing the staet state of texas as a conservative. >> and develop tur -- development capitalism we like vulture capitalism. no. and the poeople in gaffney, south carolina, understand what happened to that company and the folks understand the jobs lost and bain capital took from each of those deals and walked away from it. that's not what we're looking for in a president of the united states. we're looking for somebody that knows how to build jobs and create jobs, that's what i

did in the state of texas and no use for paving this over, that's a problem for mitt and-- >> are you saying, you said specifically not ethical. you're saying that mitt romney, governor romney is a vulture capitalist, that governor romney is unethical. >> i'm saying that the way they operate at bain capital with those two particular companies in those two south carolina cities, i think, was irresponsible. so, you know, the truth is the truth, sean, there's no use in trying to shy away from it. we think for a minute that barack obama is not going to attack this and talk about it, we might as well get it out in the open and discuss it right now and find out is this the type of conservative we want representing us at the top of the ticket. >> governor. >> i happen to think that south carolina voters want someone who has served this country in the military-- >> let me ask you this though. we know whoever gets this nomination is going to get attacked. it's going to be a billion dollar campaign. certainly there are areas,

legitimate areas of disagreement you can have with governor romney, evolved positions on gun and abortion, ro many in i care. i think they're legitimate debate here, but there is, as a conservative to say that those people willing to invest their money for companies that have either been mismanaged or headed for bankruptcy and they come in and try to get them profitable again and say they're vultures and unethical, that's about as severe a charge as you can make and frankly, you're right. it's one that i would expect from barack obama who republicans say want dirty air and dirty water. >> the fact is that folks in gaffney, south carolina, and georgetown, south carolina agree with that and i happen to think if they were going to be real venture capitalists they'd help clean up the companies and save the jobs rather than coming in and picking their bones clean, exactly what he think they did, and then walk away from them, with huge amounts of profit. so, if those profits that have

been put back into those companies, my instinct is, there'd still be people-- >> you're vig that governor romney did a good job at bain, say with staples or some of the success stories where they did invest their moan and many jobs were created? would you say in other bain ventures that they were successful. >> sure, but these are the places with where they came in and destroyed the people's lives. when you walk into those communities and talk to the people here, they understand that they were used. they feel very used. and he's going to have to face that when he comes to south carolina, so. >> okay. >> you know, this campaign covers a lot of ground and it's about those flip-flops that mitt's made on whether it's guns or on abortion, whether it's on traditional marriage, whether it's on global warming. he's going to have to come to the south and talk to people who have very strong opinions about all of those, this venture capital versus vulture

capitalism is just one of them. >> all right, we're going to watch this very closely and we'll see you next monday, the fox news channel debate, from south carolina. governor, we'll see you there. >> look forward to it. >> thank you for being with us. >> god speed. >> and the coverage from the new hampshire primary continues. and governor tim pawlinty is here and much shall

>> and welcome back to hannity. we're live from the granite state in manchester, new hampshire and the voters went to the polls in the first of the nation primary and the people have spoken and former massachusetts governor mitt romney was crowned today and ron paul, jon huntsman third and battle for fourth place for rick santorum and newt gingrich. we'll have those as they come

in. and joining me mark stein and pollster himself, frank luntz is back. let's start with the results from tonight. obviously, even though it was predicted mitt romney would win, he had to come in, he had to campaign and the numbers had to come in and votes counted. expectations met? >> pretty much. but he remains a weak front runner. it's not clear what the turnout level is. and it was certain light when i was up in the north country today. >> sean: and you have like a bunker up there or-- >> yeah, a bunker in the deep north woods and emerged from it. i wonder having a weak front runner suppressing turnout and add in the ron paul factor and there are more ron paul groupies than four years ago, and take those guys out, might not be the scenario for the general. >> sean: do you agree that mitt romney is a weak front

runner, percentage-wise, this is about when they end up getting the nomination, the percentage. >> and many' looking at the speeches, one he gave in iowa more hopeful and optimistic and words that connect beyond just the republican base. for romney to be successful in the fall if he gets the n nominati nomination, he's got to attract the independents and those who reject the philosophy. and barack obama is going after them. tonight mitt romney touched them in terms of reaching out and focusing on main street rather than wall street. in trying to get away from the traditional business message, and trying to personalize and humanize it i thought it was a good speech. >> sean: let's talk about, we just had governor perry on using strong language and let's go over some of it once again. they're taking advantage of companies, meaning bain capital going through did is stressed times and actually used the term vulture capitalism, again and again, picking the bones of some of

the companies and cleaning them. the ethics get thrown out the door, vulture is there. >> and why does it sound to me like this would be the argument that you would anticipate any republican would receive. from democrats, occupy wall street, barack obama. >> i'm not a great fan of bain capital and i'm not a look of people, em a he not clear what it does. it's not like mcdonald's makes hamburgers and apple makes computers. it's not clear what bain capital does to most people. but this is a critique from the left and in a sense they're doing to economic conservatives in gingrich and perry, what ron paul is doing to foreign policy conservatives and they're clobbering it from the left. >> sean: and the one interesting component that always tied the republican party together. social conservatives and libertarian conservatives and everyone agreed on checks. and this is is a time when

there's a separation and we'll get frank luntz' take and continue more with mark stein and frank luntz and more as we continue straight ahead.

>> welcome back to the special edition of hannity and in manchester, new hampshire and mitt romney one the first in the nation primary and we're continuing to watch the tight battle fourth place

between gingrich and santorum. and we're with mark stein and the pollster, frank luntz. i think there's a justified anger towards wall street and this is, what i think that's real. however, i think that, you know, bailouts, we're all against bailouts. why did wall street get bailed out? >> people having trouble paying their mortgages and losing their jobs, they're not getting bailed out. i worry about what we're discussing, that is of the three shall the triangles that they talked about. the three leg of the reagan coalition, if you will, that supported conservativism and reagan. >> right. >> economic conservativism is one and you've got to look at that and if that's now splitting off ap splintering off, what's the danger. >> the danger of disintegration, when you look at ron paul and rick santorum on the stage together. they don't have much in common, conservativism or

national security conservative im. what we're seeing with rick perry and newt gingrich, they've chosen to pick a war with mitt romney on the basis of economic conservatives and now, it may be a subtle argument and i think that 2008, the global collapse and the rest of it was about the malign alliance between wall street and government. >> and government. >> i'm opposed to that, but this is going to be spun, attacking newt, newt makes no sense, i mean, he'll be interested in frank's take on it. newt makes no sense and claims to be running to the right of mitt romney and attacking him from the left and so is rick perry, how does it make sense. >> you've got crony capitalism or special interest capitalism and nobody supports that. if conservatives end up having to defend it, the indefensible, that's where they go down the tube and presidential candidates potentially running opposite of what the house and senate republicans sand and now

you've got a nightmare. >> you talk about language. let me read you some of the language, ethics get thrown out the door. how much money can we make in a hurry now, this is governor prry's criticism of mitt romney. this is vulture capitalism. picking the bones and cleaning people out and losing their jobs. >> and see the ad by the way. sean, the ad is cut and doing it right now the democratic national committee and going to show republican after republican after republican damning capitalists, the problems, conservatives should not be defending capitalism, they should be defending economic freedom. the world capitalism was created by karl marx to dedemonize people who make a profit. and suddenly they're trying to defend something at that-- look, if mitt romney is the nominee, i don't know who the nominee is going to be, i haven't supported any of the candidates and stayed neutral and keep putting them on the air and giving them as much air time as we can. this is the very narrative

that barack obama and the democrats have already started. >> i think that's-- if you figure this is the big issue, the economy, the debt, the-- which is an extension crisis, america is broker than everyone has ever been ever and yet, we're now having in the republican party, in the right wing party, in the conservative party we're having an argument that's essentially being played out on occupy wall street. >> let me ask you this, isn't the bigger problem, you talk about, you know, crony capitalism, but it's really the alliance that mark was talking about and that is that the government plays a big part in this because the government has made regulations for their friends, solyndra is another big example. isn't that crony capitalism or taxpayer money to pay back people that bundle money for you or special breaks or regulations for individuals, isn't that a-- >> or the incompetence of government such as fast and furious, there are so many

issues that they could be arguing about the failures of washington d.c. and instead they're argument. >> fannie mae and freddie mac, which in 2008 had a piece of over half the mortgages in this country and came close to taking out the entire global economy. and we can talk about that because newt has issues there, so he can hammer romney on that and as a result, and what is infuriating for conservatives in this primary process is it's where you kind of road test the issues in the general election and that's not what's happening. >> the consequences of this are so significant. i believe we're going to look back on this day in this past week about at or nine months from now and ask a question of the two of us, could you see the seeds of this disaster, and you're going to say it came now when conservatives split between main street and wall street. >> there's one caveat to that is remember, it gets heated in every primary and beat time, once it becomes a choice of obama versus whoever the nominee is, i think.

>> with all due respect. those who see 5 trillion dollars in debt and higher another 1.2 trillion on the horizon, when they see no jobs created, when they see, you know, our military decimated and put it altogether, i think it's still going to be obama has nothing to run on that's positive. >> come with me, come with me across the country. >> i come with you, i do your focus groups all the time. and travelling with you, frank, not an easy thing to do, one does ask a little too much. >> i happen to work, you like to sleep, i like to work. [laughter] >> i work 20 hours a day, what are you talking about. >> because you're 22 or 23, sorry-- >>en he's rick perry and you're mitt. that's why he's gone nuclear with you. >> he's obama and i'm the conservative, go ahead. >> the consequences -- wow, the consequences of this are significant because the anger among the average american. >> it's palpable. >> they feel screwed. whichever party addresses

that, empathizes or acknowledges it. >> and what happened today. >> the answer is who did the screwing. the answer is, who told washington, and-- >> but frank has a point, and that was not evident in today's primary. what you heard was the great sound of people settling for a weak front runner reluctantly. >> electability was a big part of the exit poll. >> and ron paul had 25% of the versus and then hunts hahn. >> sean: a very good spirited debate and i'll avoid travelling with frank at all costs to my safety and security and he yells at everybody before his focus groups. and coming up, romney supporter, former presidential candidate himself tim pawlenty is going to join me live as we continue from manchester and the results come in at 75% reporting there you have romney 38%, paul 23, jon huntsman, 17%.

>> and we're live tonight in manchester, new hampshire. thanks for being with us, where the first in the nation's primary has been wrapped up and mitt romney has been declared the winner and during the victory speech he had a message for some of his g.o.p. fellow contenders. >> president obama wants to put free enterprise on trial and we've seen desperate republicans join forces with

him. >> ooh! >> and this is such a mistake for our party and for our nation. the country already has a leader who divides us with the bitter politics of envy. we have to offer an alternative vision. i stand ready to lead us down a different path where we're lifted up by our desire to succeed, not dragged down by a resentment of success. >> and joining me now with reaction is romney supporter and former minnesota governor and presidential candidate tim pawlenty, thank you for being here and appreciate you being with us. let's start at this point. there's justified anger at wall street. you know, we bail out bankruptcy and financial institutions and insurance companies and they give the bonuses to themselves and misappropriate the money so i think there's palpable anger, but i think, but in this case, i think it's a little different scenario. why would you argue that, for example, governor perry was on tonight is wrong, vulture

capitalism comment? >> a number of things, let's tip the cap to mitt romney. a historical victory tonight. no none has won in iowa and new hampshire, ever. he just did something that no other candidate ever did and leading in the polls in south carolina and florida, don't take anything for granted, but that's an incredible compelling achievement. >> sean: and for a candidate, and give him his due. . >> he's in very good position and you're right this never happened before, we're not taking away from it. >> not you, but others have. aen let me say this, mitt romney understands the private economy. wall street was reckless, irresponsible and should be held accountable. and when romney ran bain capital, which is private equity. guess who invested the most for private equity. endowments for hospitals, pension funds and teachers and the like and these companies were going down anyway and

bain tried to save them. if you look at the job increase or decrease in his leadership at bain he added a significant number of jobs. to have republicans attack private snaechlt, that's obama's argument and having class warfare rhetoric, that's not what we do. >> sean: if governor romney were to get the nomination, i think in the end they will have done him a favor because i think this is going to be one of the keys to obama's argument. while he's demonizing wall street and business and wants to spread the wealth around, people maybe begin to focus on his redistributive model which is that the government will take care of everybody from the minute they're born to the minute they die. so, that's an issue-- this came out when governor romney ran for governor in massachusetts. obama has brought it up before. and democrats brought it up. one candidate in this race started businesses, grown businesses, providing jobs and that's mitt romney. and stands in deep contrast to the current president who

wants to instigate class warfare and have people fight over shrinking pieces of the pie instead of mitt romney's vision of growing the pie. >> sean: look, for those that want to be an alternative to governor romney. aren't there other areas where perhaps they could have disagreement with him on. romney care being one of them, some of the other issues, abortions, guns that he's had in the past. it seems like legitimate areas where they could have a real disagreement with the governor and it could be sperted, but this seems to be taken to a new level here. >> absolutely. to add the cherry on top of the hypocrisy sundae, we've got other people in this campaign who themselves worked for private equity firms aen now criticizing mitt romney, including speaker gingrich and others. and by the way mitt romney's record is about taking companies, starting them and growing them or taking troubled companies and tried to turn them around. did all of them make it? no, if you want a government and jobs forever, that's called the old soviet system,

not the free enterprise and free capital. >> sean: governor, thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> sean: and coming up supporters of mitt romney and newt gingrich will going to be onset with the first in the nation primary results. we're live in manchester, new hampshire and see the latest numbers on the board. 77% of precincts reporting and we'll have the latest news as it comes in here on fox news.

>> welcome back to the special edition of hannity. we're live from manchester, new hampshire tonight and the results are in. first winner in the nation's first primary mitt romney and with analysis and much more, romney supporter, congressman chavitz and he's been in a bunker, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> sean: the results are in. this is historic and mitt romney has now won iowa and new hampshire, nobody has done that before. he's got good numbers in south carolina, good numbers in florida. newt gingrich went out tonight and said this is between a conservative and a massachusetts moderate. will that resonate more in south carolina than it did in new hampshire and why? >> first of all, congratulations to governor romney, a great win and we're all republicans and so we want

to move on. look,it's going to go to south carolina and it might, i mean, a massachusetts republican in the south, i don't know. that's, that hasn't been tested for a while. so we're going to have to wait and see, but many' optimistic. i mean, basically it's a choice in south carolina. whether we want to go that route, with the massachusetts republican, or basically a moderate republican or do we want to go to more conservative. >> sean: do you buy into the argument that mitt romney is a moderate republican? >> no, i am as conservative as they get. number two conservative on the house. mitt romney is fiscally conservative. you look at his record and he dealt with legislators and vetoed 800 bills, took a 3 billion dollar deficit and turned it into a positive, where we're adding money to the rainy day fund without raising taxes. in fact, he cut taxes 19

times. when people study his record from iowa to utah, to i think south carolina and florida and certainly here in new hampshire, he looks pretty darn good. >> sean: what do you think about the electability exit polls and those weighed heavily on people's mind and tended to go with governor romney, why? >> you've got to remember 60 to 70% of republicans are voting for someone other than mitt in the primaries and i think that's important. electability, of course it's important. we all want to beat barack obama. and it's a-- >> and americans fear more than anything that barack obama get-- >> and if you find that's an issue, i would love to see gingrich debate him, it would be a clear line of demarcatio demarcation. and most the people would love to see them. lincoln douglas style debates.

if he's not the nominee we don't get a chance to see that. the governor would expect the attacks on bain capital and his time there to come from president barack obama, and not republicans. it seems in the next week or so it's not going away as an issue and we had governor perry on and he doubled down with very harsh language tonight. will the governor respond to that. >> i think that people understand these are desperate attacks by people desperate to be in the white house. and he has a message what he forsees in the economy. are we going to be an entitlement society 0 are an opportunity society. >> sean: you know what i don't understand. i think there's justifiable anger at wall street and i really do and i think they've mismanaged money and gotten bailouts from the american people and somebody that's underwater in their mortgage and lost their home and why are they paying a bailout, insurance companies, and financial institutions. but, is there for him, does he fall into that category?

and where is the anger at washington? they spend money they don't have. we have 5 trillion dollars of obama debt. it seems the politicians have thrown all of these rocks at business, and you know, i'm trying to understand where their anger is. >> i really do think that it's not going to be somebody who is a washington institution, a career politician, who's going to be able to take the fight to barack obama. it's going to be somebody from the outside. mitt romney was 64 years old. governor for four years, but he had a great private business experience and created immense wealth for people across the country. >> with all due respect and we've had this debate on bain capital, i don't want to go there right now, but the thing is, that's exactly the problem. when you nominate a republican who's talking about leveraged buyouts and how these are-- it's all capitalism. i don't have problem with that, but that's not what the guys on main street are talking about, they're talking about how do i get my mortgage payment up. can i keep my job and pay my bills and we'll have a

republican out there leveraged buyouts, it's not what we need in our nominee. we'll pay the price for that. >> you don't want somebody in washington d.c. the last 30 years and on k street. you want ones that take on brm ap that's the fundamental difference. >> sean: gentlemen, another spirited debate and that will continue into the debate into south carolina. and let your heart not be troubled our great great great [singing] hoveround takes me where i wanna go... where will it send me... one call to hoveround and you'll be singing too! pick up the phone and call hoveround, the premier power chair. hoveround makes it easier than any other power chair. hoveround is more maneuverable to get you through the tightest doors and hallways. more reliable. hoveround employees build your chair, deliver your chair, and will service your chair for as long as you own your chair. most importantly, 9 out of 10 people got their hoveround for little or no cost. call now for your free dvd and information kit.

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>> welcome back to the special edition of hannity live in manchester, new hampshire tonight. thanks for being with us on our great, great, great american panel. and kirsten powers, and patriot david webb is here, good to see you guys, juan williams. let's go over the general impressions? >> i think it's been a powerful night and clearly history has been made and who wins iowa and new hampshire, unprecedented for someone who is not an incumbent. i'm surprised again that the number of independents that had the turnout and you still don't get a bigger turnout than '08 and romney doesn't get more votes. >> sean: do you think that's a lack of enthusiasm?

>> i don't know, all of our friends here at fox, the big advantage that republicans have this year is a higher rate of intensity, enthusiasm and get barack obama. >> sean: a good point. >> and the republican voters aren't coming out. it's independents who are pushing the numbers. >> sean: but they're certainly not, i don't think they're going to go for barack obama next time. that would be my guess, a lot of them. what do you think? >> i think they're unenthused about the tactful field. there's a cbs poll show that they want another option. that's probably it. not that they're happy with obama. i think they're unhappy about obama, but not excited about the choices. >> sean: what do you think? >> i go to the last line in the story, obama ran in the democratic primary unopposed and he won. the fact is four years ago you had a dynamic between democrats and republicans, a fight. and a higher turnout. this one you have a republican only primary essentially and it's kind of an inevitable presumptive win by mitt romney. so a lot of people just didn't

come out and i think it's not a lack of enthusiasm, just a lack of dynamic between the parties. >> sean: and the polls are showing palpable real fear that obama may get reelected and a fear for most people tends to be a great motivator and i think that's going to show up by the general election. >> yeah, but if you look at it and go down the line, you can see they're unenthused, unenthused about mitt romney, think he's a flip-flopper and santorum, they think he's a big government conservative, great on social issues and other stuff, they think he voted for no child left behind and other things and you can go through every single one and there's not one person that they really feel like that they could-- >> i like the debate going on right now in the g.o.p., which is how do we, given the field we have, how do we get the best out of that field, because in the end the american people have changed. the voting base has changed, sean, no longer the inevitable. if you're the guy this is what

we want from you. that's a difference. that's the difference since the tea party movement and real want the accountability and the economy is number one, if you don't give us the answers we don't want the descriptions anymore. >> i think a lot of my fellow conservatives and i'm reading some of my twitter reports and e-mails and so on and so forth are concerned that they've always viewed the republican party as the party of liberty and the party of freedom. and in many ways, it seems, and i'm not singling out governor perry who i like and agree with on many issues, but vulture capitalism? >> i heard that. >> sean: that was harsh. now, see, this is surprising to me, this saying that i'm surprised that republicans are involved in this debate and surprised it's broken out this early. >> sean: agree with you. >> and i think it's a real departure, a real departure from the script that we had in mind which is that obama and the left. >> sean: would do this. >> go after. now you have it inside the party. when you have not only rick perry, but santorum saying he's a blue collar guy.

>> rick perry saying he's a blue collar guy. >> sean: he was a blue collar guy. >> they're saying mitt romney is heir to a great fortunate and even jon huntsman is saying, you know what, in our family, huntsman family created wealth and jobs, this guy is generally what you might call predatory capitalism. >> sean: in threading the needle, we've got to make the distinction. i'm angry that we bailed out wall street and i don't think one taxpayer dime should have bailed out any insurance company, any financial institution, i'm angry about that, there's justifiable anger there, but on the other hand, to go after a company that would bale out companies that were in trouble, weren't forced to take bain's, you know, money, but they were going to have to fire a lot of people, layoff people and maybe go under anyway and that to me seeps to be the

antithesis and obama's 5 trillion dollar debt, kirsten, i think that's a par bigger a target. >> and romney made bain an issue by saying he created all of these jobs and the numbers don't add up because he chose a couple of places where they placed, but by making that an issue-- >> and we really have to look at bain for what it is. for one thing, unlike obama he didn't socialize the risk and privatize the gain and didn't use taxpayer dollars and solyndra, but on the other hand they want to pick on romney and democrats want to pick on romney and bain. what about warren buffett and berkshire hathaway. what does he do, kirsten is right. private capital, investors choose the risk, and socialize the risk, privatize the gains and give it back to-- >> and let me say, i am a romney