and pete, do you have a person yet? thanks for watching us tonight. i'm bill o'reilly. the spin stops right here. definitely looking out for you. ♪ captioned by closed captioning services, inc >> sean: nbc sends one of the few conservative voices packing. tonight, patrick j. buchanan is here to tell us why he believes he was dropped from the fledgling liberal news network. more somebodying details emerge over who is funding the left wing organization media matters and their attempt to take down the fox news channel. the three-year anniversary of the $862 billion stimulus has arrived. we review results of the president's reckless spending

spree with the architect karl rove. this is what you -- >> this is what you do. you don't do this with president obama. >> sean: plus rick santorum calls out the main stream obama media for the blatant bias. our countdown to election day continues and "hannity" starts right here, right now. fellow heft wing -- a left wing news organization parted ways with pat buchanan, one of the few conservative voices on the network. the former presidential candidate had been serving a four-month extension after liberals expressed outrage over the material in the latest book suicide of a super power. in a statement, nbc said we decided to part ways with pat buchanan. we wish him well. liberals including those at media matters are recklessly applauding the news today. joining me on "hannity" to tell his side of the story is the author of "suicide of super power," pa rick j. buchanan. permanently out of exile.

>> well, i think seal team six extricated me, sean, but i can't give up details of it. >> sean: fair enough. i understand that. you have a pretty big crowd as i understand. let's get into this a little bit. when you came on this program, and you have been involved give some history here. you were involved in one of the pioneer debate cable shows and n cable. which was called "crossfire." on that program, just remind people who were the people you would interview over the year years? >> we brought on, because what we want to do is introduce people to america that they have never heard. they just read about. we brought in meyer cahani, and ruben of the jdl. david duke came on the air. minister farrakhan. they all had what people said are extreme ideas. my idea and journalism was people should hear this.

they should see the ideas confronted and challenged in real debate. and the highest rated show on cable for years and years. of course, we only had cnn. that is my idea of journalism. what bothers me about what is going on now is this. it is quite clear that the people of media matters and others are saying what buchanan says doesn't deserve to be heard. we don't want to challenge it. it should be purged from the air. all of these groups i think, i am engaged in a blacklist, sean. blacklist of conservative and traditional spot. >> it's on the heels of this investigative journalism by the daily caller about media matters. and enemies list, corroboration with the white house that they are confir confirming. targeting the fox news channel because it allows conservative voices on here. we are getting to the root of an organized campaign to smear, slander, stigmatize,

destroy and ultimately silence conservative voices. do you think that is part of this? >> i think this is exactly what we're dealing with. there are elements in our society and they are predominantly on the hard left that say it's no longer enough to challenge and contradict and defeat or pipe the argument. we have to smear them, stigmatize them as racist, homophobic. silence and sensor them. the way is go after the media outlets to put them on the air. they go after your newspapers and the column, say drop him or you are a racist like he is. or get him off your network. otherwise we're going to go after the advertisers. they work behind closed doors. al smith said nothing un-american can live in the sunlight. this is un-american what is going on now. i commend quite frankly, i command tucker carlton for the fight he and the daily caller are putting on. >> sean: i do, too.

when your book came out, i watch you all the years on "crossfire." you worked for nbc for a decade, pat. your views were not exactly unknown to them prior to you coming on that network. i don't think there was any shortage of liberals there, pat to counter your arguments or debate with you or disagree with you. as a matter of fact, i would think that, you know, you are the one lone voice i can think of with a different point of view. in seriousness, i read your writings. i watched you on cross fire. i watched you over the years, interviewed you. i don't see that your views changed. so what happened here? >> well, sean, this is the thing. clearly when i was with richard nixon and we won 49 states and white house and i was with ronald reagan and we won 49 states, bucannon view could be considered, center right, where the country was at or the majority of the

country. i haven't moved at all. the fact that the views i held and express which did very well in elections and i express when i did well in the two elections, 92 and '96, in the republican primaries with 3 million votes, there are no longer to certain people not only dislike and detest the views, they say the american people can't hear them. should not hear them. and sean, you got to ask yourself what is there a problem? they can't be afraid of me. i'm not going to be president of the united states. they are afraid of the ideas we express because they fear the people. they are afraid people will listen and say wait a minute, the fellow has a point. then there is what i call the smelly orthodoxys are in peril. >> it's funny, pat, even the years that i have known you, and interviewed you, we had a couple of knockdown drag-out fights you might recall. over the iraq war. once you wrote a column, you

said amen corner, talking about the, those in congress that support israel. i didn't like the comment. we had a debate about it. now we're at the point where that debate has gone. i don't see that your writings changed. you did have a chapter, the end of white america. to what extent was that chapter title which you say has a history? >> the year '42 where they talked about the white majority would be a minority. there was a cover story. white of the end of america. there shall be no racial majority in the country. i said wait may not.

it's not known for sure that this is beneficial because i don't know a country in this day and age whether there is no ethnic majority that is not in danger of coming apart. my question is why can't everybody else celebrate this and say it's wonderful and i can't even write about it without being blacklisted. >> sean: they say the end of white america, somehow you are saying that's a negative. meaning that would be an attack against minorities. what specifically though -- go ahead. >> well, all right, let me turn it around. i asked somebody on radio, why is this going to be a better country than the country i grew up in? when people like me are now a minority in a country where the majority rules? i don't know why they say this is going to be better when there is going to be a smaller percentage of white folks. they are the ones -- >> sean: i don't mean to

interrupt you. are you talking about the judeo christian enick? is it more about culture and not about race? is it more about culture why don't you say culturally america is changing and not bring up the race issue? gest well, because i am bringing up the issue. you can often see this better, i look at foreign countries. 1992, '93, '49, what happened? we saw yugoslavia sprinter apart in seven different countries by the new century. they pulled apart on the basis of ethnicity and religion and culture. but in that same period there were two separate countries that came together. germany, the west germans reached out and spent $1 trillion to bring the brethren home. if you remove the ethnic core of a country, france, only 50% native frenchmen in france. i think you imperil the unity of the country and the culture which comes out of the

religion. if the religion goes and culture goes and the ethnic core go and the language goes, all the languages and all the groups and any religion, what holds people together? i know what held us together. but this is what congressman lee hamilton said. the centrifugal forces that hold us together are disintegrating. all the forces pulling us apart are growing stronger. now my point is that an ethnic core, in other words the fact that we were a western and european people predominantly and we have 10% african-americans, this was one of the strengths of this country as well as the culture. >> sean: all right, pat buchanan. much more with him coming up as we continue. and also it's party time on "hannity" tonight. karl rove here in studio to help us celebrate the three-year anniversary of the signing of president obama's big stimulus package. we'll tell you how much more of ady saster this cost you, the american people. also, senator rick santorum calls out the media for

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>> sean: hello, back to "hannity." tonight i'm joined by washington from conservative columnist, author, former presidential candidate and former nbc host. just ended his relationship with nbc, thursday, patrick j. buchanan. we had for example this week,

john boehner, eric cantor, called by maxine waters demons. there has been a lot of incendiary remarks made about conservative. presidents say republicans want dirty or air water. they want old people and kids with autism and down syndrome fending for themselves. none of this is picked up by the liberal group, the p.c. police at media matters that collaborates with the white house, this feeds their information to news organizations. and is 501c3, well-funded to destroy conservatives. the question is, if your conservative voice is going to be silenced and they will monitor every other conservative, what does it mean for the future of the country and freedom of speech? >> sean, there is an old saying back in the 1930s, the french had enemy on gauche. no enemies on the left. popular front dealt with the socialist and communist, altogether. and what it suggests is a

profound and political and ideological divide that is getting almost impossible to close in this country. that is one of the things again that i mentioned in suicide of the super power. it's ideologically and politically we are at each other's throats. i believe and i don't dislike the president at all. i think he has a lot of good qualities. i think if the president of the united states is re-elected we will have a deadlock, gridlock for the next four years, that we had in 2011. we will have in 2012. because he is out campaigning all that time. but no enemies on the left, what that means is we cover for our own. we protect them. and we just go after the opposition. that is hard ideological politics. that's where we are right now. >> sean: all right. let me ask you a it will to shift gears, pat. because you are an influential political voice. we have the republican primaries going on. we had one person rise after the other. the latest person to surge is rick santorum. what is your take on the race?

>> well, i think rick santorum deserves an enormous amount of credit. there is a gay that has real perseverance. he went through 99 counties in iowa. iowa. i have been there, done that. i know how tough it is. he was at the bottom of the list. to come roaring back. he has a good conservative record. it's not flawless. my belief is that if i look at it right now, i would bet on right now mitt romney. now clearly he has problems with conservatives. a lot of conservatives said look, in many ways he is not one of us. he is bain capital more than the political world. he grew up differently than a lot of us. my guess of now if mitt romney wins michigan, and i forget mclaughlin group, i think he will come back. i think he goes own to the nomination. i think newt, you can't make that souffle rise a third time. and i think santorum has -- >> sean: last question.

>> i don't think he will make it. go ahead. >> sean: last question. so if you were going to say -- governor palin brought this up. we interviewed romney this week. what would be the thing he could do to reach out to conservatives and convince them that this is, he use used e term severe conservative. in a cpac speech. he went up a liberal legislature in massachusetts and balanced budgets, has romneycare, that has a lot of people doubting and stated position on abortion. is there anything he could do to close with conservatives? >> i think mitt romney, the mitt romney at the campaign, i think would have real, real trouble beating obama. the romney on the florida campaign, came out fighting. he came back and did a terrific job in the debate. he has attack ads that are rough on newt. i think he took him down and took him out there. i think that is mitt romney.

he will have to pick a candidate from the conservative populist wing of the party. that is where he ought to look. i think you get that together. look, he is only what? six or eight points behind barack obama? ronald reagan at one point was 20 or 30 behind carter. i can be done. they have to get it closed out. >> sean: pat, for first time in your career you're under fire, this is first controversy i know you've ever been through. i hope you are able to handle it. [ laughter ] >> it's the last -- listen, i survived the two biggest train wrecks in american politics, watergate and iran contra. i'll make it through this. >> sean: appreciate your time tonight. this calls for a celebration. three years ago today, president obama signed a stimulus bill in to law. coming up next, we check in with karl rove. he is in studio to remind us how big a monumental failure this recovery act has been. and then reverend jeremiah wright back on the national scene.

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>> sean: today marks the three-year anniversary of the signing of president obama's $862 billion plus stimulus

plan. and there is no better way than today to take a look back at what the spending spree has now given us. the unemployment rate is up from when he took office. national debt is soaring. food stamp epidemic is gripping the country. today mark republicans are marking this milestone, including rnc. let's take a look. >> today does mark the beginning of the end. the most sweeping economic recovery pack knowledge history. the pack soldier the right size, the right scope and it has the right priorities to create three to 4 million jobs. federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back in to life. >> the f.b.i. raided bankrupt solyndra. >> 700,000 to create joke telling software. >> i didn't overpromise. >> shovel ready was not as shovel-ready as we expected. >> sean: and joining me now the author of the "new york times" best seller "courage and consequence," known as the architect, karl rove. welcome in studio. >> thank you for having me. i'm here.

the mother ship. >> it's interesting because i'm watching, i think because conservatives republicans know this is an important moment for the country, they, if they decided to support any of the three candidates they are passioned about it. i understand that. the waterfall hasn't begun, avalanche hasn't begun. reminders of how bad things are, haven't happened yet. this is coming with obama. >> it will change when we get one candidate who will go mano y mano with obama. it's important to remember that obama made specific promises of what spending $862 billion will do and not one came to pass. unemployment was to top out at 8% by the summer of 2009. and be at 6%. we were supposed to have 3 to 4 million new jobs and new green energy industry. instead we have 13 million americans out of work. the longest period of high

unemployment since the great depression. we have the worst string of long-term unemployment, 40% of those who are unemployed have been unemployed for 27 weeks or more. >> sean: worst than great depression. >> and we have nearly 50% unemployment among young people, highest break since we began to break out unemployment numbers by age in 1948. we have proven you can't spend your way to prosperity, particularly when you have a bill badly design and stupidly organized. >> you have corruption surrounding it on top of it. >> solyndra, sun power, all the green energy companies. so, once the narrative is set, this is going to be a real, it will be ideological election. choice election. conservative versus a liberal big spending democrat. >> conservative versus ultraliberal. let's be honest. president obama has not governed as a centrist as he claimed he would in the 2000 campaign. nor has he governed as a traditional liberal. he governed as somebody whose

ideology is three steps to the left of the normal liberal. >> sean: as radical as i warned people. >> wow were prescient. >> i wish i was wrong for the sake of the country. 47 million americans on food stamp. 26 million americans out of work or underemployed. all the americans in poverty. we can do better. >> one of the most signature accomplishment is affordable care. the first piece of social legislation in modern piece of legislation in the country to get loss popular after it passed. go to huffingtonpost.com, not a right wing source of information and they track the polls and it's gotten worse. upside down with the positive in the high 30s and neg nif the mid-50s. >> sean: the republicans have not yet settled on a candidate. rick santorum is in the middle of his surge. governor romney still has more delegates. newt gingrich is hanging in there. and he is staying in the race.

>> ron paul is going to be -- >> sean: going to be persistent. okay, does it get to the point here where republicans really got to settle on somebody. because it's been up and down and sideways and volatile. >> think about this. we have now had five front runners and seven different times we have had somebody in the lead. santorum now the fifth front runner and the 7th lead. my sense is we will see something begin to happen on march 6 and the following week march 13. we will have two contests at the end of the month, arizona and michigan. and then we will have ten contests on the 6th. that night, the person who wins the most delegate and the majority of contests may have the ability to move it their way. there will come a way where republicans will say now we have a bunch of contests, somebody seems to be persistently. let's go. >> sean: we had governor romney on this week. i asked him about the comments that governor palin made.

he is has some doubts about his conservatism. he addressed it at cpac and on this program last night. my question to you is, is he answering that question good enough? >> well, it's -- >> sean: do you agree that -- >> yes. exactly. and you know it's unfortunate, think about this. he made a speech last november that was not well reflected upon but it's a terrific speech. in essence he embraced the principles of paul ryan and the roadmap calling for fundamental entitlement reform in a way that is in keeping with conservative principles. not easy being the governor. i'm not here to make his case. he made it an interesting point in the speech at cpac. look, he was the governor of a very liberal state. it would have been easy to go along with the tax increases. say he was a tax -- >> sean: there are vetoes. >> i remember sitting in the white house when that supreme court, judicial superior court of massachusetts came down with a decision about gay marriage.

and wondering what would happen, you know, that is a liberal state. could have gone along. it was great he took on the fight about traditional marriage. it was one where, you know, we needed that anchor. here it was guy in the middle of the battle facing that court decision. get it there the legislature to defend traditional marriage. he needs to make the case. his challenge is make the case without looking defensive about what he would do as president. >> sean: what about rick santorum? do you find his position on social issues would be the focus of now problematic for him? >> there is a difference between depiction on the issue and huh you depict them. all major candidates are in sync of religious freedom and obama's attempt to dictate to the catholic church what it can and cannot believe.

there is a difference between that and saying contraception hurts women. that is hard to explain to a lot of -- >> sean: come up with an answer. >> particularly when it says it's a problem within a marriage, between a married couple. that appears to be judgmental. if there is one thing ve, social conservatives must do, present our views in a way that welcomes people and doesn't seem to does not appear to be judgmental. >> sean: newt has another good debate, could it be a shift like we saw in south carolina? >> it takes more than that. he had really good territory in south carolina. the infusion of $10 million for bim addlesson will give him a chance to make a case. but the question is which newt will show up? good newt with a vision that is positiver not good newt who is angry and upset how he perceives being treated by the process? nobody likes the whiner in

politics. good newt walked in south carolina and won. >> sean: good to see you. >> thank you for having me. volatile. >> ready to be tired of volatility. >> good to see you. appreciate you being here. >> sean: coming up, cbs plays gotcha with rick santorum but he stops charlie rose dead in his track and flips the loaded question. we have that coming up. that and more on the busy friday edition of "hannity" as we continue. ♪ [ male announcer ] the 2012 m-class continually monitors blind spots, scans the road to reveal potential threats, even helps awaken its driver if he begins to doze. so in the blink of an eye it will have performed more active safety measures than most cars will in a lifetime. introducing the all-new 2012 m-class. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. through mercedes-benz fore!

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>> sean: pennsylvania senator and presidential and date rick santorum is distancing himself from an off-color comment made by one of his top donors. the remark was made question and is causing a stir on the campaign trail. take a look. >> people seem to be so preoccupied with facts that it says something about our culture. maybe we need a massive therapy session to concentrate on what the real issues are. the contraceptive thing, my

gosh, it's such inexpensive. in my days, they used bayer aspirin from contraceptions. the gals put it between their knees and it wasn't that costly. >> sean: the senator had nothing to do with the comment at all, that is not stopping the liberal media asking him questions about it. look at this. >> charlie when you quote a supporter of mine who tells a bad offcolor joke and somehow i'm responsible for that, that is gotcha. this is what you do. you don't do it with president obama. with president obama what you did is defended him against someone who sat in a church for 20 years and defended him. he can't believe what he listened to for 20 years. double standard. this is what are pulling off and i'll call you on it. >> sean: i couldn't have said it better. joining me is ed rollins and the co-host of five, dealing with beckel five days a week, we had issues today. kimberly guilfoyle. >> we'll work it out as a family.

>> sean: good for santorum. >> yes. for standing up to the liberal media. he is not responsible for what a supporter says. >> good for him. he should haven't to apologize. he showed spunk, fire. had a good point that will resonate with a people. look at the different in how they treat a liberal and conservative candidate. he is forced in the corner and made to apologize for something they didn't say. they fail to examine glaring examples of associations with president obama, people like reverend jeremiah wright. >> sean: or bill ayers. >> bill ayers. >> sean: here we have been doing this whole, following the daily caller investigative piece. investigative journalism in media matters. media matters covers it. there is charlie rose, cbs news echoing the question to media matters. is there a connection here? >> the mainstream media is against santorum or any republican for that matter.

>> santorum is a counter puncher. he counter punched effectively todayism promise you that is the kind of procedure and obviously he response that will help energize the conservatives. >> sean: just like when newt did it in the debate, very effective. >> absolutely. is it important that people say that is who i want in my corner. >> sean: here though is a serious issue, because rick will go through the vetting that herman cain and perry and michele bachmann and newt gingrich have gone through. it seems to come down to one overall issue the social issu issues. contraception, abortion, belief in faith, gay marriage. do you think any of the issues, anything you read are problematic for him in terms of getting the nomination or in a general election? >> not in the republican

primary process. at the end of the day, we talk about the economy and bad job that obama did in the fall. no question the democrats come back and try to use the issues. these are things that he reasoned deeply and a leader. there is no waffling on him. that is what is giving him great strength. to a certain extent you can't find fault with someone's personal beliefs. you may disagree but you can't find fault. >> people know where he stands. think about it. you have never been confused about what rick santorum stands for. the issues that he holds dear that he thinks are important to re-establish the foundation and strength as a nation. you know what you are getting. there isn't a question or am big guty -- imby guty. >> sean: i asked him this week and he said i'm a catholic, and i have beliefs but i never vote to ban them

or defund them. will that be helpful? >> it will be. we are in a unique period where the catholic church feels it's under attack. short run it will be beneficial. long-term is taking the fight to obama. >> sean: what about the issue from the book he suggested that two income families aren't doing what is best for the kids. he writes parents when the family could get by on one salary, you know, is that going to come under fire? >> that will come under fire. >> sean: how does he answer it? >> answer it again, that is my opinion. i was fortunate enough to my wife can stay home with our children. we have have seven children. the perfect thing about him there is no scandals anywhere on him. you can go after him full bore and disagree with his positions but at the end of the day he is an honorable man that lived honorable life. >> sean: gays in the military, gay marriage, women in combat. any of the issues do you see problem matt nick the primary or -- problematic in the primary or general?

>> i don't think it's a problem for him. people are worried about the jobs and economy, and worry about the long-term unemployment being at 40% since 2009, the highest since 1948. let's get the country headed in the right direction, which is we have to do something about jobs. stimulus has been complete disaster. a lot is promised. unemployment, obama promised to sol tv problem and get it below 8%. projection from the cbo won't happen until a minimum of 2014. if you put him in again, good luck. >> sean: good to see you both. appreciate you being here. let not be your heart be troubled. why? our great, great, great -- a big night tonight -- american panel is coming up next. techns at a relentless pace. anything not moving forward... is moving backward. [ tires screech ] [ engine turns over, tires squeal ] introducing the 2013 gs, with the lexus enform app suite -- the most connected information and communication technology available in an automobile.

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caller, jamie weinstein here. good to see you again. we just had pat buchanan on. he was just fired. this is on the heels of your, i guess we should call it the new media is doing that. that is this investigation in media matters. they wanted this for a long time. there are certain people we target. enemy's list. collaborate with the white house and they feed the info and picked up by main stream media. msnbc is shocked to find out that his views in the new book. >> he had the views forever. buckley wrote a book in 1990 that called pat cue can nan out on his views. the views have been consisten consistent. >> he has never been secretive of his views.

>> always controversial. >> i've been the target of media matters. >> sean: you? they go after you? you are the nicest person in the world . i understand them coming after me. >> because i dayed to right about an f.b.i. protest. that spilled in our yard and neighbor's yard where they brought along a huntington post reporter, no main stream media reporters. it wrote about it for fortune, they went after me and after my integrity. having been the target of them, you know -- >> sean: this is almost daily. always usually out of context. now i'm on the enemy's list, what they have. private investigators must have been bored. apparently it's going on for some time. there is a bigger issue. pat said something the struck me. the views are not new.

you're right. he interviewed controversial figures from louis farrakhan and down. he can accept controversial people with controversial views. >> i think the great american panel may be the last place on television where yes will mind, often two conservative and one liberal. sometimes two and one and sometimes three. >> there is no other pat buchanan forum out there. unfortunate it's lost. i hope you keep the panel because it's one thing i watch. i like to see people spark it up. >> sean: i do, too. i like the passion and the give and take. pat and i had a brutal knock-down battle on iraq because we disagreed on it. what does it mean when the white house may be collaborating. they are feeding in the media, the media picks it up.

they were writing the primetime for msnbc. >> bragging msnbc takes stuff, lock, stock, barrel and brags about it. >> sean: bragging about it. they think this is defeating buchanan but their big goal is fox. they haven't done their job if that is their goal. >> fox is accused of taking the white house line in the bush administration. >> i we shall someone had told me. >> theyed a continuing conch on this. i watch how they try to have a balanced position. and the new way of looking at a lot of news stories. the mainstream media. >> the newspapers have the news section.

national news and something called the editorial page. i am opinion person. we don't hide the fact. i am a registered republican. we have the best journalists in the business. watch around the clock. why obsession to take down the network? >> that is a fringe organization. never achieved what they aimed. >> the white house? media matters? >> the daily coast a precursor to media matters called on the lefties to vote in michigan for rick santorum to beat romney. it didn't even make the news. they are attempting something that rush called operation chaos. it doesn't make the news because it doesn't have traction and it doesn't work. the levitt shot the bullet and didn't hit the target. it's sad. >> sean: take a quick break.

come back. when we have more to get to on friday night with the great, great, great american panel, including presidential politics and is a turkey sandwich with cheese, banana and what is it? apple juice and potato chips, should the government have an inspector take it away from your kids? pack lunch, sack lunch at school? straight ahead. ugh, my sinus congestion, and it's your fault. instead of blaming me, try advil congestion relief. often the real problem is swelling, not mucus. advil congestion relief reduces swelling due to nasal inflammation. so i can breathe. advil congestion relief.

>> sean: we continue the great american panel. all right, we're doing mark levin imitation in the break. all right, so this mother sends her daughter to school. i think she is four years old. you, and turkey and cheese, apple juice, banana and potato chips. apparently they have an inspector for the school that jumps in and says no, that is not healthy enough. it doesn't have the vegetable. which the girl doesn't want to eat so that is why her mother didn't put one in. so they took the food and give her chicken nuggets. what -- is this the role of the government? >> welcome to obama government where chicken nuggets are healthier than apple. >> banana. >> this is the problem of the behemoth government. the idea that parents are overruled by the bureaucrats in the lunchline for what they

feed the little takes, this is absurd. we need less laws, not more. this is one area of the government we can cut, food inspectors. >> aren't potato chips vegetables? i remember ketchup was a vegetable. >> i'm thought tomato was a fruit. >> don't you remember back in the day. >> who was the president, i was arguing about that. >> reagan. >> it was reagan. >> reagan. nato. >> ouch. >> ketchup. >> all right. a great record -- >> it was ruled a vegetable but the u sda. >> sean: only the government can screw that up. >> i went to parochial school. we only had peanut better. >> can't give them peanut butter today. they'd be allergic to it? go to presidential politics. santorum getting scrutiny the other candidates gotten. does he have an issue on social issues, gay marriage, contraception, the role of family life. is at it big nix the campaign? >> i talk to the senator on

wednesday. he believes what he believes. a whole piece, a seamless catholic doctrine. he is not running on that. i think between senator santorum and governor romney, they want to talk about the economy. the main stream media wants to take rick off to contraception and romney off to bain capital. i think romney will win michigan. if they just get to have a debate when you moderate it or i moderate it or anyone moderates it, talk about the real issues that right now they are not -- >> sean: what about the mud slung back and forth? you have the romney pac ad and the santorum ad with the mud and the paintball mud shot at a cut-out of santorum. >> that is the process of all of these states. particularly with time in the state you see mud in both campaigns. my husband is romney advisor. >> you don't have to do it every single time. >> okay. i know. anyway, i do think rick santorum has an issue with women. that came out in this last

election campaign. for senate. i think that the contraception thing, and all of that. >> working, the issue about working women, and it's, you know, dangerous to the family and all of that. fair or not, i just think it can have an impact with women voters. but i also think that the election there is going to turn mostly on the economy. rick is talking about the economy as romney. you will see mud slung. >> sean: all right. i did ask rick about this specifically, the contraceptive issue this week. never many my years of voting i imposed my view. >> he is getting a bad wrap by the media. they want to make him social conservative candidate. i've seen him on the stump in new hampshire and elsewhere. he is more manha