>> madmen to senators, never know what you're going to get. >> and tomorrow, schweitzer, and rick reichmuth back with more pollen pictures. >> happy birthday, peyton manning. >> whoo hoo! >> more americans getting slammed with $4 gas. the number of states where people pay at least that much tripling in the past two weeks and meanwhile, president obama saying we're drilling all over the place to help. but do the facts say otherwise? hi, everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears, let's get right to it. the bulls and bears this week. gary b smith, jonas max ferris along with chatwood investments managing partner ed butowsky and jehmu green. toby, you say the white house is wrong, we're not drilling all over the place.

>> the facts are clear. we're drilling more on private land, and this year up about 55%. if you look at federal lands which by the way holds literally maybe a trillion barrels of oil. not only give us independents, oil independence for the next 200 years, we're down 300,000 acres and let's not talk about the off shore drilling because we had to make a 18-month ban that we could have solved the problem off shore in a lot of different ways than banning and clearly the facts are that with the trillion dollars of barrels out there. we're going after a little small part and we're holding our supplies off the marketplace. >> is the issue here, jehmu, public versus private and we're drilling a lot on the private, private acres. what about the public? >> the reality is in the last three years, brenda. we have opened up millions of acres for drilling across 23 states. this administration has also led to record numbers of oil rigs, we're at 75%, and i

think anyone who looks at the facts, understands that this president does not control oil prices, at the end of the day, it is driven by the uncertainty in iran, it is driven by increased demand, by china, brazil. india, anyone who tells you different is lying like one of tobin's persian rugs. >> thank you for calling me a liar, and the president could do an executive orders than-- >> when she says a liar, a life joke and supposed to laugh. i know, gary b, you're not laughing i, bet because you don't agree with her facts. >> well, she has the facts right. she doesn't have the rational right until we make the arguments. most increase on drilling came from land that's not under the federal purview, it's either under private domain or it's under the states. so, the current administration cannot claim that because of their actions they've

increased drilling. the other more important fact is that when george bush took office, we were reliant, 44% on foreign oil. under his watch that dropped to about 32%, under obama's watch. even though all of this increased drilling, it's like my gosh, we're more energy independent, it's gone back up to 40%. so, if, you know, the fact is that we're doing all of this great drilling, then we're not drilling enough and the industry experts say, like toby, if we started opening up, forget about drilling in national park, we drilled where we could drill now, he we would double the supply in a short period of time. >> brenda: jehmu, what do you think about that? >> i think we have to look at the reality. this administration is employing an all of the above strategy. >> how, how? >> there is more drilling, there is focusing on clean energy and we can't just take this irresponsibly. he we can't have more than the

gulf of mexico. we have to look at this responsibly and this administration has done this. >> brenda: let me get this around. ed, ed what do you think? >> this is absolutely crazy. it's all economics and when oil prices started moving up, these oil companies in the private land start today literally put more resources there, they saw there was profits to be maids and a lot of tridrilling that they could o there. that drilling is down, down about 2%, but it's where the economics are to speak to the point about all of the above strategy, that's ridiculous. the economics are not there. none of those strategies make sense, and we have to let the free market be free, and let the-- let drilling occur and we will bring prices down. anyone who doesn't think that's the case, you really have to go back to economics 101. increase the supply. it will meet the demand and we'll start to see the equilibrium come down and until then higher oil prices. >> jonas, you think there's an

unintended positive consequence of waiting to drill, because prices will go up? >> well, everyone keeps saying, it's only private land where there's any oil left. because we already drilled out the public, the government owned land where the stuff is. we've drilled the stuff in the last hundred years. if the government waits, won't it be a thousand a year. >> holy mackerel. >> come on. >> we've seen the price of natural gas fall to ten year lows, not because of oil prices because of technological prices. and the point is we're going to get it if it's on private land. and there's not a right it drill wherever they want. i can't build a condo in yellowstone park because i want a condo there and cut down trees for land there. and it's the governments, and theirs to deploy, and whoever is in charge of the government. >> we're not talking about drilling in yellowstone park

for crying out loud. >> let's talk about the outer banks, 1982 going all the way back and we took the, essentially the continental he banks off florida and virginia off the table and that now is the way we used to drill, maybe 15 billion per gallon, but the new sec knowledge and looking at it like it's 20 years ago. a. we could get 200 to 300 garls. it wouldn't be off shore it'd be off shore horizontal. >> i can't build a rig off shore, the government owns it have the rights to control it and take considerations like florida and the industry. >> brenda: let gary b respond to na? >> yes, that's the point. it is under the government purview and all of this land, you would not see a diminishment of yellowstone park or old faithful. toby says we used to drilling that we should be be drilling on that have plenty of resources, and to gjehmu's

point. all of the above and the responsibility. everyone is along with that, is it responsible to have a solyndra and a $7500 credit for the chevy volt, that's how discontinued? and was it responsible to have a-- >> and all over the gulf. there is he' down sides, too, to doing it. >> there's down sides to wind mills and killing birds, too, and yes there's down sides for everything. and as ed pointed out. we have the most economical natural resource out there, we're not using. >> if we drill everywhere, if we drilled on every bit of land we have at our resources we would at the most, at the most have 2, 3%. >> thats that's a kenard. that's not valid. >> the 22 billion fairs, 2% of our reserves. if you look under feet the grounds and go to shales, et

cetera, we have according to, right here the u.s. geological survey we have almost a trillion barrels available we can recover. 400 billion right now and today's pricen and economics and today's technology and we've totally disregard it had and said, gosh, we don't need that. >> and why did natural gas prices drop from $10 to $11 down to 2 and a half dollars. extracting the natural gas. if there's any discussion about anything other than fossil fuels we should be looking at natural gas and you know, the whole idea about wind energy and solar energy is not economically sensible. >> and it's not a reasonable comparison that they had fossil fuels, 70% of our economy is based on. >> oil on the private land, being drilled already. the government has never gotten in the way of the country of driving in private land and why should, i don't

understand if you have a right to go drilling wherever you want. the bottom line, buy some land. >> you're going to run out of internet bubbles and run out of things that we and supplies we could have a 16 trillion dollar, 18 trillion dollar economy if we would do this responsibly, technology. >> that's got to be the last word, guys. >> it's not just pump prices that are climbing. the makers of wheaties saying they've seen the worst inflation since marylou retton, you remember her. she was on the box of champions and that was around 30 years ago, why is d.c. still denying it? neil is on it at the bottom of the the hour, but, first, these two companies announcing major plans to hire americans, why the real story may not be how many they're hiring, but where they're hiring. for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace." so my parents went to bank of america. they met with the branch manager and they said,

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and today, all eyes are on louisiana primary voting is underway. there are 20 delegates up for grabs today and republican presidential candidate rick santorum is looking for a rebound following his critical loss in illinois to fellow rival mitt romney. today's race marking the first real head to head between the two top candidates, four conservative votes. we'll have a live report from louisiana at 1 p.m. eastern. and new video in this morning of a fatal plane collision in colorado two people that died in that, one miraculously surviving. authorities say the two small planes collided and went down within minutes of ooch other in denver and two people killed were flight instructor and student. no word yet on the cause. more headlines 30 minutes away. keep it on fox. jobs moving in the right direction and more right it work states. volkswagen hiring 800 new workers in tennessee, while

auto parts maker is adding 120 new employees in indiana. they recently went right to work and they need more to get americans back to work? >> well, exactly. in fact, governor daniels has noted that in indiana, since they've gone to right to work. the jobs fair has gone through the roof and right there, the proof is clear, but, you know, just from a macro standpoint, brenda, it's so obvious to me, look, unions are, by definition, a monopoly. monopoli monopolies, effectively have higher taxes on the company than non-monopolies. we get less and that's exactly what happens when you get stupid things like union wage and unionization. the union employees get more, but there's less jobs to go around and it's funny, the government always cracks down on monopolies, except when it's the case of unions and they want more of it. they need right to work in all

50 states in order to increase the employment rate. >> why would a ceo care about choosing a right to work state over a nonright to work state? >> yeah, and i agree completely with gary b: there's no question we'll see more and more of this. attacks on the company. if i'm a ceo of the company. where can i get the best employment and best people to work on my product with the least amount of money, they're shopping around and smart. that's the ceo's job to make it more efficient and profitable and without any question, the union is a tax. there are so many layers of expenses, involved with the union and when i was a kid. somewhere around 20 years old. i actually worked for a laborers union in the new york area. and i got paid $22 an hour for sweeping floors. i wasn't worth it, i'll tell you that. >> brenda: okay, well, that may be debatable, but jehmu, there's more to this than wages, right?

this has a lot to do with worker safety, and other conditions? >> well, right to work states are that for wages, absolutely, and they're bad for workers and bad for people and kill people. and less likely to provide health care to employees and accidents on the job, 53% higher in right to work states. if you look at just the future of job growth in this country. high-tech companies prefer states that have unions, because the workers have better skills, and there's less turnover. that's the future of where jobs are going to grow. >> toby, you want to respond. the latest one from hard vard, over all years in the united states. and just about every fact that jehmu brought up, this was over 30,000 companies and i would go with the facts that when you look, right to work, by the way, simply means that i don't have to be forced to

pay union dues, this is from all about union dues and about control and nothing about businesses and really nothing about the employees. >> and to say that in states that allowed unions, that you are forced to pay union dues. that's false. >> i just want to get to one part. how important are lower labor costs when it comes to-- they're just one part of the calculus, aren't they? >> yes, in known, lower level costs as an employer you're going to hire more people. a lot of these are jobs at existing factories put there because of tax breaks and insi incentiv incentives. and if all the states became and all labor costs came down, the unions will just about anyway looking at the long-term trend. this doesn't mean they're going to hire twice as many people at volkswagen, it's based on demand and right now the lower states are winning-- they're not going to win those

jobs all of a sudden if all states are right to work. and same amount of labor. from a hiring point of view, it's not like we're going to solve all labor costs in the country. an obvious reason, labors have been going down for a decade and high unemployment higher than a few years ago, it's not like a magic bullet, lower today than four or five, six years ago. >> last word, gary b, quickly. >> i like jonas' strong man. of course, jonas, not going to half the employment rate. you made it, right to work states are doing better than nonright to work states. >> and wealth generation. >> and let's one other state is tougher and lower unemployment. >> some states are higher wages and might want it live in those even though the unemployment rate is a little higher. >> brenda: we've got to go, guys, thanks. mortgage rates are climbing, usually bad for climbing. why are some saying it's not only good for housing, it's good for the economy.

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>> goodbye mortgage rates, moving above 4% the first time in five months. conventional thinking says it's bad for the housing market. not jonas, he thinks it's great. >> obviously, a higher mortgage would lead to more, except if it's a little higher. it does two things, if it makes people think we've only hit bottom. not going lower and might as well buy a house now and spur buyers who have been standing

by and renting. and the prices have still gone down and the other reason basically, rates are going up because the economy is strong, means lower unemployment and more people can buy a house, rather have a 6% mortgage and 5% unemployment than a 3% mortgage rate and 20% unemployment. right? >> thank you, jonas for that. >> i'd rather see a higher economy. and home prices are going down for-- >> gary b put that foresale sign on the house finally. >> oh, my gosh, i am he' waiting, waiting. tell you what, i kind of agree with jonas in one aspect is that the mortgage rates go up, it's certainly not going to hurt the housing market, but maybe we disagree for a different reason. i don't think it really is affecting the housing market right now. i think once the hangover in the housing market is simply inventory and inventory is not moving because people don't feel confident about the future. maybe it gets back to one of jonas

jonas' point about a better economy. maybe we get 8, 9% and mortgage rates have an impact right now one way or the other. >> ed, do you see any red flags here. without question. let's really call it what it is. interest rates are moving up on the 30 year mortgages for one reason, the panic that we saw over in europe had a flight to quality which everyone started coming to the united states and pushed rates significantly lower. we're just seeing a little bit of an adjustment back. don't think for a moment, jonas we're seeing a strong and good economy here, what we're seeing is some people exhailing for a moment in time and that's-- >> and they could be, like-- >> toby, you're not worried about this? >> not really. >> and the issue is, right now the affordability issue is still significantly more affordable to buy a home a than it is to rent a home. the problem is that 80% of people who aren't freddie mac or fannie mae not able to get mortgages. there are people 850 fico

scores that aren't getting mortgages. we're not worried about interest rates, worry about the banks overreacting and allowing 010 or 20% of people to get mortgages. >> and jonas-- >> i'm sorry, jonas please don't think for a moment everything is getting better and with interest rates starting to move up, a sign that the economy is strong. >> jonas, quickly react? >> i'll say maybe the mortgage rates are higher, giving at 0% and-- >> jehmu, quickly, this is good news, do you think? >> good news on the economy is only met by being if you want to stop to the economy. at the end of the day it's another strong indicator that it's going to stop serial refinancers from continuing to do that and i think at the end of this time. at theened of the day, the reality is, that this is a good sign. we're moving in the right direction, guys. >> okay, thanks, guys, and thank you jehmu, for joining us. >> brenda: giving paper or plastic new meaning.

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is >> predictions. >> health care is going to be a winner no matter what happens with the supreme court decision. it's up 40% in the next 12 months. >> brenda: jonas, do you agree. >> no, too much of the business is going away. >> anadarko, oil prices above 112. the stock over 100. >> brenda: toby you like it. >> a little early. three months and then it's going to take off. >> brenda: all right. jonas, your prediction. >> bank of america's rent to own project instead of foreclosure which keeps the houses off the market. good for banks and-- >> gary b, bull or bear. >> bearish until it pulls back 10 or 15% and then. >> brenda: your prediction. >> sweden wants to get rid of