>> john: kids aren't learning. spending is through the roof. the bureaucratic is what is wrong. >> it's like the reformers are up against the unions and paper pushers. >> let's bring in the destruction. who would disagree. >> teachers unions disagree and they are mad at me and reformers. >> city schools are terrible because of like unions.

are test scores are not well to. >> john: give me a break. they oppose charter schools. >> over my dead body. unions are mad because some charters can fire teachers. >> what is wrong with that? >> this actor says teachers need tenure. >> why have tenure? most positions don't have ten ui >> but there is good news. where teachers can be fired, kids learn. >> give us the worst schools anywhere in america and we'll outperform the other schools in five years. >> how good are the test scores in his charter school? >> there isn't a word for it. >> john: but they avoid the problem kids. but sadly adult schools have

made us stupid in america. >> john: school spending has tripled over the past 40 years. we spend much more than other countries but what do we get? fancier schools, more assistant principals but student longer, no improvement. look at it. for 40 years, scores have been flat. much more money, no improvement this is awful. but there is some good news. around america very cool things are starting to happen. >> but school is boring? >> no! >> john: yes, it is. i went to school. grade school was boring. so was high school. so was princeton, except for the party part. but fourth grade, you have to learn reading and writing. that is work. >> reading is work, but it's

rocking awesome. >> john: and these kids say school is fun? >> how is it fun to learn. >> in a fun way. >> so you look forward going to school in the morning? >> yes. >> john: they attend one of the new charter schools. free public schools but the charter let's them escape the bureaucracy of regular schools, including teacher union rules. this enrolls the bureaucracy at risk of failure but these kids learn. >> going to our school is a ticket to educational success. >> john: this woman runs several charter schools, all get outstanding test schools. >> you do it with the same money? >> we do it less, 4 to $6,000 less per child. >> john: how do they get them

interested? >> you are interested in math and reading? reading is work. [ laughter ] >> john: the school day here is longer. they stay until 5:00 p.m. chatter teachers can be asked to work more. they told us they don't mind. >> john: but you are going to burn out? >> that is not an option. we have hand in the pie with these keidz. >> john: they use new teaching techniques. sometimes they wear ear pieces in class and coached by their bosses. >> john: what are they telling what i don't see. my principal is able to feedback to me through the earpiece. >> we view teachers as athletes in the olympics and they need coaching to be at the top of their game. >> john: kids constantly wave their hands around. it confused me but then the

students explain it's called actively listening. instead to blurt out can i go to the bathroom or i agree with that. students make hand gestures. >> john: what is the symbol for agree? >> high test scores made these charters so possible, they line up hoping to get kids admitted. >> john: this line goes on and on forever. it goes around the block. so many applicants but not that many spaces. what do you do when you have thousands of people and few hundred slots? they hold a lottery. sadly there are many more losers. on the other end in oakland, california, another charter chain gets similar results using different methods. >> give me the worst school in oakland, black, maximum can, give us the worst school anywhere in america we'll take

it and we'll outperform the other schools in five years. >> john: ben chavis created the model at american indian charter schools right in the heart of a rough neighborhood. >> now, these are hard workers here. >> john: the kids now have some of the highest test scores in california. >> you can do that as every other school? >> we get less than every other school. >> kids in american indian public charter schools are scoring so far above the average for the state for public school children that there isn't even a word for it. >> they use different techniques from charters in harlem. here they pay kids to tutor other kids. >> we hire our students and pay them. they are going to make some money. >> john: chavis is politically

incorrect. >> good for you. you'll be a rare bird. >> he has been criticized for imposing strict rules. >> you got in trouble. >> they want us to succeed. >> john: a teacher made this student do pushups. >> you have to try hard. >> i hate saturday school. >> here we have six subjects of homework and teachers were a lot nicer. >> john: meaner and no student has been expelled since the school begin in 2000. no way. >> i love fools. i love the kids that get in trouble. you can take a kid who is acting like a fool and gets in trouble and use them as an example. >> john: it's cruel. you have a sixth grade that will be sent to city on the floor in

an eighth grade class. >> that is true. to keep people in line. >> john: even gym classes are strict. >> we play games every pe but here is running for two minutes or running around the block. >> john: you fire people at schools. you fire a people after one day? >> you she was incompetent. yes she was incompetent. >> last year i thought i was going to get fired a few times. it can happen at the drop of the dime. >> that is not true for most government run schools, especially union ones. union teachers are happy they can't suddenly be fired. but these charter teachers can be. >> you can get can had in a moment? >> on a if i'm not doing my job and fired for that, so be it. >> if i wasn't a doctor and i wasn't good, i wouldn't have a job, no one would come to me. >> john: i would hope not.

you can't maintain quality if you can't fire people. >> it's as a little as we can. >> have you fired more than ten? >> in three schools in more than eight years, yes. >> they can choose textbooks and teaching methods as long as they make sure the students are learning what they need to learn at the end of the day. >> john: in harlem, 43% of eighth graders get passing grades. 100% of her kids pass. if such charters work, why aren't there more of them? because unions and supporters of traditional schools hate charters. this protest happened outside of one charter. >> i hope it's not personal but it may be. >> this union boss doesn't want charters in his schools.

>> over my dead body. >> john: does he get to stop them? when we return, i'll confront the unions about that and other strange things union bosses say like we shouldn't judge teachers by how well students do on the test. >> john: how do you know in if they are learning anything. >> i know when i look at them in the eye. >> john: what? more stupid in america when we return. emily's just starting out... and on a budget. like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate.

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>> john: those great new charter schools we showed you, i wish there were more of them. because competition makes everybody better, but there are some people don't like my saying that. >> shame on you. shame on you. >> john: the teachers union, five million strong.

this girl was mad at me. >> we want a demand apology from john stossel. i had done another show stupid in america that was impossible to fire bad teachers. union boss said because of my program. >> educators all over the country feel that they have been kicked in the teeth. >> john: i was surprised, they were surprised when i came out to hear them. they said i should be educated. the crowd liked the idea of me teaching for a week. i think i surprised them again, okay, i'll teach. but then they changed their mind. union president randy won't talk to me anymore but two other union bosses did. joe delgrasso and nathan saunders.

>> city schools are terrible because of unions like yours? >> i would disagree. >> we have progress because of unions. >> john: three days before saunders led a protest march. they composed an anti-test song. ♪ ♪ >> john: i think i know why the union doesn't like testing. >> your results are among the lowest in the nation. >> you make an argument it's the lowest in the nation based upon the test scores. now, i would say that ours can get better, but i would say -- >> your predecessors have been saying that for years. >> i think the unions have a pretty strong history of advocating for high quality public education. >> john: but not achieving it. >> our test scores are not what we choose to focus on. we choose to focus on teaching

kids. >> john: how do you know if they are learning anything if you don't test them and compare? >> i know they are learning by looking at them in the eye. >> john: they in celebrity support. by matt damon but the rules that make it hard to fire a union teacher. >> there isn't job security. why isn't it like that for teachers? >> you think job insecurity makes me work harder. it's not an incentive. you take this mba style thinking. >> john: mba style, business school idea. well, yes, charter schools, vouchers, obama's race to the top is based on competition is good. if kids can take their money to any school, competition among schools for profit will force all the schools to get better or go out of business. best schools will expand but the unions don't like that market

competition. >> there is a profit motive behind all of this extra testing. >> we need to get the corporations out of the schools. >> the unions say school choice, rich corporations but further impoverish poor teachers. ♪ ♪ >> john: teachers paid enough? >> no. >> john: some teachers are making hundred thousand dollars. >> a teacher wants to teach. why else would you take [ bleep ] a salary and long hours. >> john: teachers [ bleep ] make salary. maybe to matt damon, but today teachers make more than accountants, architects, nurses. >> i can guarantee you about this, it's not about the money. >> kevin is a former politician.

>> i gave the school system $300 million new dollars, they got more money than ever and the test scores went down. what they did do they grew center office. they had more deputies to the assistants to the deputy of the assistant. they grew. >> john: and former chancellor, any shed reid found that the bigger bureaucracy didn't give school supplies to the kids? >> walking into schools and seeing there were no books in the library, kids didn't have supplies and pencils. then the following week i visited the warehouse of the school district where there were boxes and boxes of books and scissors and glue. >> john: why didn't they get to the schools? >> it was complete and utter sense of dysfunction and the lack of accountability. >> john: the reason they call it

bureaucracy, it's like the blob. it can't be budged. the blob is the teachers union, janitors june and if you try to make a change. we don't do it here. >> we have four to five people to sign off. deputy has to sign off. >> john: both union leaders escape that bureaucracy. >> it made me feel i better do pretty good in that school or else. >> john: i confront the union bosses when we return. why can't other people have the choice they have? also, why does it cost a third of a million dollars to fire one union teacher? what is wrong with these people? [ female announcer ] who'd have thought

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>> john: look who sends their kids to private school. nancy pelosi, hillary clinton, al gore. >> the people that are making the rules already have choice. the politicians, politicians have choice. >> john: yet all these politicians that sent their kids to private school oppose it for regular people. >> thank you for taking my question. i want to know whether malia and sasha would get regular education in a d.c. public school. >> if i wanted to find a great public school for malia and sasha we could probably maneuver to do it. >> john: apparently he did not want to do it. he sends them to the same vice

president kids's. tuition, $32,000 a year. >> you went to private school? >> that's correct, i graduated from catholic high school. >> he is head of the newark teachers union. at this meeting. when the chairman said he used up speaking time he demanded more. saying my union contract mandates seven more minutes than i got. this stupid union contract is why the kids suffer. your union is the problem? >> i think you know better than that. >> he opposes letting kids to allow them to attend charter schools. >> over my dead body they are going to come to it. i'm going to be there and physically -- there are certain things that don't mix, oil and water. >> john: there is no room.

>> no. >> john: he says charters favor rich kids but newark public schools spend almost $400,000 per classroom. charters get less. >> not that much less. >> john: they get less. it's hardly the rich versus the poor. let them into your schools? >> we don't want them in the schools. >> john: then you are not happy for them. >> does fox or cnn in the same building? i don't think so. >> john: but fox and cnn can't banish the competition. competition is why we have fox and cnn and msnbc. when you have a choice of what channel you are going to watch or what school you attend, competition makes things better. bill understands that about his own education. >> my mother paid for me to go to it. it kind made me feel i better do pretty good in that school or else. >> john: it sounds like you are

arguing against union schools? >> no. >> john: most of the independent schools are catholic schools doing great job spending half. >> tell them to have another bin go game and get it over with. >> john: government run schools can't fire teachers because teachers get tenure. >> why i have tenure? >> went you organized crime, it was like a ceremony. >> john: you like organized crime. you are in forever unless you die or get killed. [ laughter ] >> there is that perspective of it. you are good teacher and there shouldn't be a problem with it. >> john: here is one problem, not every teacher is good. some are really lousy. >> john: it's impossible to fire

them, because there are million steps. >> there is only one. >> john: it's all these steps. >> let's see. >> john: this the list of the steps to fire a teacher in my town. this is why most principals don't even try they look at the list of appeals and just give up or push the worst teachers to transfer to another school. that is common way to avoid these rules, it's called the dance. it leaves some kids stuck with terrible teachers. this former police investigator says it takes years to fire an abusive teacher. >> lots of kids say he hit kids. >> kids said it. it took me four years, $283,000, $127,000 in legal fees plus what it cost to have a substitute fill in i'll while he is sitting

home. still being paid by the district. >> john: he couldn't fire the teacher that faked his doctorate. >> and he went to sleep in class. he was quite disturbed when the supervisor came in and woke him up. he complained. it never ends. >> john: when we return, meet someone who is successfully fired hundreds of teachers. your own daughter's principal. >> that was a chilly night at home. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now.

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.... live from america's news headquarters. i'm gregg jarrett. developing right now a deadly accident on a kansas interstate. here is new videotape. a truck crashing into a gultly torn to pieces, police say there were multiple fails, 18 people were injured.

we'll write you more details as we get them. world leaders ramping up a united response to the bloody uprising in syria. hillary clinton speaking at the friends of syria conference in turkey. clinton warning the assad regime quote, the time for excuses is over threatening severe consequences is if they do not end their crackdown on their own syrian citizens. they are pledging millions of dollars in new aid to the syrian opposition. i'm gregg jarrett. now back to stossel. we'll see you again at the top of the hour. check out our website at fox news.com. >> john: as we've seen, education in america is a mess. what will fix it? who might fix it. >> somebody needs to fix this! you can do it! >> john: oprah thinks this woman

can fix it. thank you michelle. >> john: michelle is michelle rhee. five years ago she managed d.c. schools. >> you never run a school system before? >> i'd never ran a school before. that is why people thought that they were nuts. >> john: people said, what, who? >> people said he lost his mind. >> john: her friends said she lost hers. >> i have two daughters, nine and 12. i put them in the d.c. public schools. >> john: the schools were disaster. test results among the worst in america. chancellor rhee learned that 8% of the kids were on grade level. there was something odd how the teachers were ranked. >> when i looked at the

performance evaluations, how good the teachers are doing, i found that 95% of the adults were being rated as doing a great job. how can you have a system where all the workers saying doing a great job but producing them is 8% success. >> john: she visited schools and saw empty classrooms. >> i go to the first classroom, five kids in the classroom. second classroom, nine kids, third classroom, three kids. finally i get to the fifth or sixth, i ask the teacher, where are all the kids? and she said, it's friday. i couldn't believe the answer. is that all. she said, no. she is going to tell me they are on field trip. she said it's raining too. >> john: it turned out not every classroom.

attendance varied by teacher. >> i'm walking through and finishing my visit. i walk into one classroom and there are 30 kids in the classroom. there are not enough desks. so there are kids sitting. i talked to one of kids. what do you think about the teacher. he said this is my best teacher, bar none. as i was leaving the school, this is about 10:00 if the morning, that young man and two of ace his friends were walking out of the school ahead of me. i tapped them on the shoulder, excuse me, where do you think you are going. they said to me, our first period teacher, he is great so we came to school, second period teacher so we're going to roll because he is not so good. this is not the american picture have of truants. they were making a conscious decision to wake up early and come to school for first period and then to leave after that because they weren't going to get any value out of it.

>> john: and he gets paid no more than all the other teachers. >> gets paid no more. we do seniority layoffs. >> john: so she would pay good teachers more and fire bad teachers. >> few weeks i was visited by my then general counsel. he comes rushing into office. you have to stop firing teachers. i said why? if people are not doing their jobs they are supposed to do, we need to move them out. welcome to d.c. public schools where you don't fire anyway. >> we found a 90-day loophole that let them fire some teachers. >> there is a firestorm surrounding the d.c. public school systems. >> 30 principals are being terminated. >> outrage among parents and

teachers. >> it was a plot before she took the job of people around that have tenure. >> if so you fired 4,000 teachers. fired your own daughter's principal. >> that was chilly night at home. >> he is upset families, communities, students and teachers. a lot of people got fired. she said they deserve to be fired. >> john: a lot of people thought she needed to be fired. >> they hate you still. >> yeah. wicked witch of the west, the dragon lady. >> john: big bad witch. "time magazine" put you on the cover with a broom. >> i actually took the broom to mean, sweeping house. >> john: the yoons union said poorly performing teachers need a second chance. >> don't you have some union

teachers who are just lousy. >> we need to lift up the low performers and help them do better. >> john: why not just fire them? >> there is a cost to fire teachers. quality of life of that person is deeply affected by that termination. >> john: nobody should ever be fired. >> what we should to do is help people improve their skills. >> people would say to me, if that searcher in s not effective. you should talk about spending the time to develop that person. i would say okay whose children are we going to put into the classroom. >> john: who are you going to practice on? >> right. and it didn't work out, sorry. you only get one chance in first grade. >> john: she changed the policy. >> i made the decision we were lay off by quality instead of seniority.

this really upset the apple cart. we were protesting. >> john: why? it's just common sense to do it that way. >> it's common sense to you and me but it was counter to what the district had always done. it's the way that unions operate. >> john: but it cheats the good young teachers. >> forget the young teachers. how about the kids? >> john: test scores went up when she was chancellor, but in the end the unions won. >> we're going to fight. we have to be here all day and all night. >> the mayor appointed her was out and rhee quit before she was fired. so she lost in d.c. but elsewhere in america, all sorts of new schools are succeeding and exciting things are happening.

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and absolutely no foreign transaction fees. does your card do all that? apply today and earn 40,000 ultimate rewards bonus points when you spend $3,000 in the first three months. that's good for $500 toward travel when booked through ultimate rewards. so why settle for gold when you can have so much more? chase sapphire preferred is a card of a different color. call the number on your screen or visit our website to apply. >> john: people who try to start kherter schools often say, the bureaucracy make it so hard and that is why there aren't enough to charters to have a real market. except in one town, most kids attend charters. how did that happen? >> hurricane katrina on track to make a direct hit on the low

lying city of new orleans. >> john: it happened because of a hurricane. >> this entire area will be under water. mother nature is in charge and now mother nature has dealt one horrific blow. >> john: when it flooded new orleans, it didn't just destroy much of the city. it destroyed the school system. some school reformers thought maybe that is what needed to happen. >> it was probably one of school districts in the country. it was a horror. >> before katrina, the schools were failing. >> first you rebuild what was there or do you build something entirely new. >> john: louisiana built something new. they made it easy for people to open charters. ben started a charter school called cy academy. >> we have complete control over

the quality of our instruction. >> he was the only employee when he started. he drove his car around new orleans until 3:00 in the morning putting up signs and advertising the school. >> you see this number here, that is my cellphone. >> he had to advertise because students had to choose to go there. they didn't get sent here because they live nearby. he went to people's houses to recruit. >> living in new orleans, we never had that. >> john: her son reggie goes to cy academy. >> he talked to reggie and he was explaining to him about the hours and academics and stuff. >> john: when the school opened only a third of the students were proficient on state tests. >> i know half of them didn't know how to read. >> john: now the test results are among the best in the city. even though the school itself is just a bunch of trailers.

>> you walk into school first thing they say complaints about facilities, they are not focused on the right things. >> john: how are they doing. teachers have to perform because the principal can fire at will. >> we have an at will contract. >> sharon clark runs another charter and she, too, fires teachers. charter also allows parents to fire a school. if they don't like this school, they can send their skid doid another. sharon needs to work hard because she worries about losing her charter. >> yes, every day, sir. >> that competition drives schools to try different things like this morning, right you'll at cy academy. >> who are you? >> my education is my future. >> john: it t like but some kids

take it seriously but something worked. >> it's an amazing difference. since he's been here, he is more responsible thinking. >> even though i didn't like the school. as i went to school, i started to want to go to college more because i thought how important it is. >> john: now the mother is getting ready for college association reggie tutored her using skills at cy. >> this is how it should have been before katrina. >> so they have gone from one employee into another school that is so popular it holds a lottery who decides who gets in. >> we're going to have a waiting list of 200 students long. >> john: as you saw in harlem, they sit anxiously hoping their name will be called. some go away happily.

most do not. >> this kind of school is badly needed in the city. this kind of education we need to be offering. >> john: today most kids in new orleans attend charter schools. test scores are better. >> many of the greatest cities in the world have been reborn amid crisis. the chicago fire resulted in a greater chicago being built. san francisco earthquake resulted in a much more safer city emerging. fire of london resulted in a much greater capital emerging. people in new orleans are rebuilding the city for the better. it will never go back. >> john: and next, some more good news, this time for the internet. the blob should be worried, look how excited these kids are about math. [ kyle ] my bad.

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.... >> john: does your kids have a good teacher? how do you know? maybe the teacher next-door is better. maybe there is better teacher in another state. maybe there is several. wouldn't it be great if your kids could have that teacher? well, today, yes, you can. >> yeah! >> john: these kids are excited about a math website. >> minus 4 and we are done. >> it taught me a lot of things. >> john: hedge fund analyst made videos like these to tutor his cousin.

>> it worked out well. i tutored more cousins and i could do the lesson over and over again. they said, hey, sal why don't you put your lectures on youtube. >> welcome to presentation on basic edition. >> john: soon, thousands watched his lectures. >> i started getting comments on youtube, i think this kind of might have helped. i failed calculus the first time. i started watching the videos and now i'm acing the class. he got letters from the middle east. >> it's amazing. >> john: now she funded by bill gates. he offers web electing turs on history, to computer science. his videos are viewed millions of times. >> not only is reaching millions of students right now. if i got hit by a bus, it will still reach billions of

students. >> john: you happen to be good at teaching. >> i'll take that it as compliment. >> john: he is a great teacher. >> i hope that helps. see you the next video. >> john: it's exciting he gets kids so excited about math. in most parts of life things have gotten better. cars, computers, education not so much. >> right. 80 or 90 years, you would have local band. if you had a party. that was the only band in town. >> john: each village has a story teller. >> mass media, why don't we take the best musician and best story teller and record it and put it out on radio, put it out records or whatever. in theory that could have happened with education before. >> even in basic math, i thought

they were using video games. why not? >> there is a huge bureaucracy, most wants to say no to change the system. a blob. it is the blob. i think what is fun from our point of view we are able to reach students outside of the bloob. >> john: this california district started using his videos in fifth grade classrooms. teachers were skeptical now they are impressed what it does for the kids. >> they are happy to walk in the door every morning. they are excited about math. we have math this morning. >> we assume that most people on their own don't want to learn or don't want to get engaged in mathematics. i think they are just frustrated because most of them are in classrooms that are not catering to them. >> john: at first the teachers worried online instruction would replace them. >> it's so wrong. they have taught more math than

ever. >> john: now they can tutor kids one on one. because kids can go at their own pace. >> i have students that are still working on multiplication and then i have kids working on high school math. >> john: some are studying at home. >> some are doing two or three hours at home when i asked them to do 15 minutes. >> john: so finally after all these years of being bored and not learning math, that is over? >> i think it might be. >> john: hope so. it will be thanks to those online classes or the charter schools or other experiments that break out of the union dominated government monopoly. let a thousands flowers bloom. it's competition that given better medicine, technology, everything. don't our kids deserve that,

too? >> john: that is our show. i'm john stossel. thanks for watching. travelards. battle speech right? may i? capital one is issuing a venture double miles challenge. sh us how much you spent last year and we'll give you 2 miles for every dollar spent on your travel reward card. up to 100,000 miles! hawaii, here we come. claim your miles at capitalone.com today! wh's in your wallet? cayou play games on that? not on the runway. no.

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