jon: have a great wednesday, thanks for joining upbs. jenna: "america live" starts right now. megyn: fox news alert on what appears to be a troubling new trend for barack obama as he faces re-election. welcome to "america live," everyone, i'm megyn kelly. while the president does not have a significant primary challenger as you know, recent voting results turning up a growing number of democrats who clearly are not sold on mr. obama. first there was the prison inmate, a convicted felon who won over 40% of the democratic vote in west virginia. remember this guy? he had like his platform was zen through musical instruments. now the president's campaign is experiencing less than stellar performances in two more states,

in kentucky where the president did not have an opponent 42% of democratic primary voters cast ballots for uncommitted. 58 for the president. in arkansas a similar number opted to vote for a tennessee attorney, this is the state of arkansas named john wolf. what exactly does this tell us about some of the democratic election threat and the president's re-election bid? chris stirewalt is a fox news editor and host of power play on foxnews.com. i'm still not over the zen through musical instruments. i can understand why he got so much support in west virginia, your home state, native state. you tell me mr. stirewalt, what does this say that a number of democratic primary voters in other states are going for someone other than barack obama. >> it wasn't just there. he had trouble in oklahoma, trouble in north carolina where people are choosing essentially no-named candidates or going

with uncommitted ballots. here is what it tells us, is that for the voters who used to be the bulwark of the democratic party, white, working class voters in states like this. the blue-collar vote the president is having a hard time. you have in these states contested democratic primaries that are drawing people out. they are voting in congressional district, for sheriffs and all kinds of stuff and they get there and can't bring themselves to vote for barack obama. there is no way that barack obama is going to win those states. those states are out of reach for him and have been. there was no talk that he would do well. north carolina looks pretty improbable now. there are a lot of voters who are like these voters in ohio, in pennsylvania, in places that the president very much needs to win, and those sentiments are hardening among those voters. megyn: but how are we to believe that the democrats in those states where he is in play, all right, so forget these states, but in the other states you're talking about, would go into the

ballot box on tuesday, november 6th and pull the lever for a republican. i mean is that what this is telling us? or are they likely to just opt out? >> they may stay home. or they may skip that on their ballot. but it is also instructive as to why the president is taking a risk on this very negative opening salvo against mitt romney on his work in the private sector, because what he is very much trying to do is say to these voters, to say to these middle class, lower mid class voters, mitt romney is a rich dude, you can't trust him, he just wants to lay you off. you may not like me, you may think i'm too liberal but mitt romney is a bad guy and don't vote for him. i don't think the president would be making a risky pitch like this so early in the process if he wasn't war lead about those voters are going to say and do. megyn: is that a function of -- mitt romney whether you love him or you hate him he's tough to demonize. for the same reason he doesn't inspire a lot of the republican

base, he's tough to demonize by the far left. there is just not that much -- it's not like a rick santorum who had some positions that you could really go after. the right would defend them but at least they were positions that were controversial that the left could tear into. what do they have on romney? the bain thing, you know, is this going to really fire up those people in kentucky and other states like it who are right now saying, i'd rather vote uncommitted? >> well, we see certainly megyn what we're going to so for more than 20 weeks to come which is every effort by the bam streugs tobama administration to turn this dish of ice cream into something menacing, bad, dangerous. that's what they have to do. the president is in a very sticky situation as we've talked about before, that all of the indicators about the direction of the economy, how people feel about things, would be very dire for an incumbent. the president needs to shift and have the referendum be on is mitt romney a good person. and you're right it's going to

be hard to do, because he is not a controversial figure. he's not a polarizing kind of guy, and so that makes it tougher. what the president has with these blue collar voters though is an effort to say that there is some historical class envy here that they can say this guy is, look he's a quarter billionaire, he made all this money, people got laid off. remember why you were a democrat in the first place. megyn: i think that we should be pushing for some sort of a debate on the democratic side. 25 on the g.o.p. side. we should get keith judd the felon along with john wolf, the lawyer who has got all these votes in arkansas along with mr. uncommitted who would need a stand in like george clooney. >> if the guy in arkansas had had keith judd's mullett, he would have won. megyn: tkpwhroerpblg clooney is uncommitted. he keeps dating beauty after beauty. he never gets married.

megyn: you can find out more about yesterday's primary results on both sides of the aisle and the latest in the race for the white house by checking out our website at foxnews.com/politics. the white house has now responded to stinging criticism from catholic leaders. dozens of catholic groups filed suit monday over religious freedom and the obamacare mandate that requires employers to provide contraception coverage. new york's outspoken archbishop cardinal timothy dolan saying the new rule is strangling the church and handcuffing religious institutions. when asked about cardinal dolan's remarks white house press secretary jay carney yesterday argued that the president's healthcare policy respects religious liberty and insures that women also have access to preventative services. the fight and controversy over the birth control mandate and

religious freedom could bring more special interest groups to the 2012 campaign. check out this. catholics called to witness, an ad. ♪ [music playing] megyn: the lawsuits filed on monday have been submitted by 13 catholic dioceses, including those in new york and washington, along with notre dame university and several other catholic schools and catholic charity groups around the country. dramatic new developments and perhaps the biggest headline in a while now, in the george zimmerman trayvon martin case, since that massive document released last week. new evidence just coming to light late yesterday that shows at least four key witnesses who were originally seen as supporting similar r-r's version

of what happened that night are now changing their accounts in significant ways. there was a lag between the initial interviews they gave to the police and the next interviews, and there was a big media storm in the meantime, and now the stories are starting to change. trace gallagher has an update live in our west coast newsroom. trace. >> reporter: there was about a three and a half week lag in those interviews, megyn. the four witnesses have either changed or abandoned their stories. two of them appear to be very significant, including the man who actually witnessed the fight between george zimmerman and trayvon martin, who on the night of the shooting told police this. listen. >> and then, you know, i tried to tell him, you know, get out of here u know, stop or whatever, and then the one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guys, kind of m mark a style, like pounding him on the concrete at this point. >> reporter: three and a half weeks later instead of trayvon

martin throwing down blows, mixed martial arts style, mma as he said, the story significantly changed to this. >> it looked like he had been hitting him from on top, but, you know, i can't truly see how close, you know, they were to each other, if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until the cops got there. >> reporter: pretty dramatic turn around. the second witness is the man who spoke to george zimmerman seconds after the shooting. he first told police that zimmerman appeared stunned, his tone urgent. listen. >> the guy he was beating up on me and i had to shoot him. i said did you use a 9 or a 40. i used a 9. i looked over and i said, well all right did you call 911 yet? because i'm getting ready to do it right now. he says no, no, no i already

called, please call my wife. >> reporter: during his follow-up interview three and a half weeks later on march 20th he says zimmerman appeared to have quote, got even his butt whipped but that his tone was casual. listen. >> it's like, not like he was in shock or anything, not like i can't believe i shot somebody. like just tell my wife i shot somebody, like it was nothing. >> reporter: the two other witnesses who also changed their stories appear to be less significant, including a woman who at first did not know who was on top during the fight and later saw news reports and said because zimmerman was bigger that she believes he was on top. a woman first claimed that one person was chasing another person. later she now says she thinks only one person was running and there was no chase at all. pretty dramatic changes in these stories, megyn, over three and a half weeks. megyn: i want to go back to that witness number two. you're telling me that guy first told police that zimmerman

seemed stunned and that his tone was yo urgent and then three weeks later said he did not appear like he was in shock or anything, and he seemed casual? >> reporter: right, and he prefaced that by saying, look you could clearly tell that he had just got even his butt whipped and that is a quote. but that he was just kind of saying, well, i just shot someone, like it was no big deal. the first interview with police you could hear in his tone on the night of the shooting that george zimmerman was shaken by the account that he gave him on that night. megyn: we have witness number one who first says -- that zimmerman was getting pounded on by trayvon martin, mma style, now he's saying, actually i don't know whether he's punching him at all, he may have been holding him down. those witnesses will be ripped to shreds for that kind of reversal i can tell you right now. trace, thank you. memories change and accounts change but a good lawyer will drive a mac truck through the differences in those two pieces of testimony.

they just will. and we're going to have two lawyers come on in a special early edition of megy "kelly's court" right here in 30 minutes to talk about this. does it change the case? have these witnesses essentially blown this investigation for the police? is that a good thing? is that a bad thing? and what should we believe now about the truth? we'll talk about it right here, 30 minutes away. a must-see moment in yesterday's white house press briefing when wednesday dole goler pushed the press secretary jay kare carney on the occupy wall street and reconvenient violent protests. >> the president has supported the occupy folks in the past. did their actions in chicago sour his support? megyn: we'll show you mr. carney's answer to wendell's question which is making a lot of news today. is it time for president obama to denounce this movement? we'll ask our panel in ten minutes. what was once a harmless toy gun turned into a potentially deadly

weapon. trace brings us the eye open opening report on how. days before a possible supreme court ruling on the president's healthcare law, a very powerful democratic senator, he chairs the judiciary committee, he issues what sounds like a warning to the chief justice. we'll bring you his message to the man who promised to be fair during his confirmation hearing. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. ♪ [ acou[ barks ]ar: slow ] ♪ [ upbeat ] [ barks ] beneful playful life is made with energy-packed wholesome grains... and real beef and egg. to help you put more play in your day.

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megyn: just days before the u.s. supreme court's possible ruling on the president's healthcare law a very powerful democrat is going after the chief justice in anticipation of a possible ruling that may be adverse to the administration. senate judiciary chairman pat leahy targeting chief justice john roberts during comments on the senate floor. he went on and on and on. and critics say the remarks sounded an awful lot like a warning shot to the high court. listen. >> i trust that he will be a

chief justice for all of us, and that he has a strong institutional sense of the proper role of the judicial branch. acting on personal views in this matter would be the height of conservative judicial activism. megyn: julia epstein joins me. she is on the committee that does what leahy's committee does over in the house. jay seculo. chief counsel for the hall of justice. he can't talk now, call julian back. >> it's senator leahy. megyn: jay, he went on and on and talked about how the supreme court is supposed to respect the will of the people. it would be extraordinary for the high court not to defer to the congress in this matter. and went on and on and talked about how this is going tow affect the legacy of chief

justice roberts. defer to the congress, respect the will of the people, is that the role of the high court here? >> no, the court is supposed to determine whether a law is constitutional or not, that has been established since marberry versus madison the famous supreme court case. there is something here deeper, megyn. the idea that a warning shot would be fired by the chairman of the senate judiciary committee aiming at the chief just teufs the united states as if it's some sort of bullying tactic or in tim tkaeugs technique is outrage just. this is a coequal government. he has been a fantastic chief justice. either going to make a decision based on the law as he sees it, as will his colleagues and this idea that the senate, specifically senator leahy is medling into the internal operations, if you will of the court by threatening that john rob rerts' legacy will be impacted by this is simply outrage just. for those of us that practice before the supreme court it's disheartening to say the least. megyn: he's the chairman of the

senate judiciary committee, julian, the committee that confirms supreme court justices. that's why what he says carries a lot more weight. did you feel comfortable with his remarks? >> absolutely. and there is a long tradition for it. jay uses the word bullying and medling and i don't even begin to understand that. the idea that the supreme court should be immune from criticism in the public square, unless you happen -- >> they haven't made a decision yet. >> let me finish the point, jay. the fact that the supreme court should be immune from public criticism seems absurd to me. in the 1960 conservatives called for the impeachment of earl warren when gerald ford was the house republican leader in the 70s he called for the impeachment of justice douglas. conservatives have been railing against unelected judges and judicial activism for decades. megyn: jay's points is they haven't made a decision. >> just to finish the point there is no bullying here. megyn: hold on, hold on. i want to get julian to respond

to this. jay's point is they have not yet issued a decision. president obama got in trouble for doing this at the beginning of april and he had to dial it back. after he dials it back the chairman of the judicial committee comes out and does the same thing. >> i don't understand that criticism. the idea that you shouldn't criticize a court or particular line of court before the court has mid a decision on something comes from absolutely nowhere. this is part of the public debate. it's been going on, conservatives do it when they don't like the direction they perceive the court is going. hreub ralts do it when they don't like the direction they see the court going. there is nothing inappropriate whatsoever. >> you know, julian hires the problem. this case has been argued but not decided. and you cannot name a senate judiciary chairman that has criticized the court and warned them how they better rule on that case while that case is pending. it's much different when the case is decided and someone disagrees witness. sure that's what the process is all about. while that case is pending to chastise the court, or particularly here the chief

justice and say, if he doesn't decide this the right way according to the obama administration's position, if he does that he's a judicial activist, it's bad, it's wrong it puts the integrity of the court at risk. give me a break that is not the role of the senate judiciary committee. megyn: senator leahy came out in these remarks on the senate floor started talking about bush v gore and this would be a similar example of quote activism for the high court to overturn the healthcare law. julian, do you believe that. we should be undermining the public's faith this this decision before it is even issued? >> i don't think he's undermining the public faith. jay's point about a member of the judiciary committee making of a criticism of the court before a decision that somehow being inappropriate i don't know where he gets that from. there is nothing in our practice, there is nothing in any rule that says that any member of the judiciary committee should not criticize the direction they perceive the court going in. just as senator grassley has

criticized -- megyn: hold on, i have 15 seconds on a hard break. >> president bush criticized the unelected judges. this is part of the public debate. megyn: he also went after chief justice's alleged rule as umpire as roberts explained during his confirmation hearings. i have more on that for you, with you after the break. stay with me, guys.

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senate floor went after chief justice roberts by pointing out what he testified to when he was being confirmed as chief justice, promising judicial modesty and to be an umpire, just calling the balls and strikes. remember this? >> i have no platform. judges are not politicians who

can promise to do certain things in exchange for votes. i have no agenda, but i do have a commitment. if i am confirmed i will confront every case with an open mind. i will fully and fairly analyze the legal arguments that are presented. i will be open to the considered views of my colleagues on the bench. and i will decide every case based on the record according to the rule of law, without fear or favor to the best of my ability. and i will remember that it's my job to call balls and strikes and not to pitch or bat. megyn: and now jay, senator leahy is saying that if he does not base his decision -- does not come out with a decision that is what senator leahy wants, that he will be a conservative activist on the supreme court. >> right. megyn: and that it may change his legacy.

>> yeah, nonsense. the supreme court's put in place under our constitution to decide the tough cases, the cases where there are serious constitutional issues raised. the involvement of the healthcare mandates and obama care, we've talked about it many times in this broadcast, in fact does raise significant constitutional issues. nobody is going to deny that. if the supreme court determines it's unconstitutional that it violated the commerce clause, it's well within their authority to do it, they affirm it they can do that as well. the idea that the chairman of the judiciary committee would remind the chief justice and engaging about legacy when the case has not been decided is outrageous. i heard what julian said before the break and the fact a is it's nonsense when it comes to the requested that the case has been briefed, argued, submitted and we are waiting for the decision and leahy is doing nothing but trying to stoke a flame that the president did back in april and the president had to roll it back, senator leahy needs to do the same. megyn: why is senator leahy talking about how chief justice roberts and the other justices

need to respect the will of the people? is that their role when they adjudicate this case? >> i don't think anybody, including senator leahy is questioning the role of the supreme court in terms of judicial review as jay pointed out the marberry versus madison the right to say what the law is, nobody is questioning that. i think what leahy is saying is if justice roberts and the majority go a different way and declare it unconstitutional that it is a new kind of judicial activism from the conservative sides. with a couple of exceptions that we discussed on this show. the court has deferred to the congress on questions of interstate commerce and given them a broad, broad, broad swath, particularly in cases like this where we know this issue involves free riders that can impact the rest of us over a hundred billion dollars a year. it has an impact on international commerce. leahy is saying it will be a departure from what has been a long-standing practice from conservatives both if terms of restraint on these issues and

particularly so when it comes to interstate commerce. megyn: it's very interesting. >> actually that's not what he said. he said it would affect john roberts' leg gasee. and that's ridiculous. >> we can see how many angels dance on the head of a pin all day. megyn: i've got to go. thank you. we are taking 'thoughts on whether that was appropriate by senator leahy. we've already received some mail from folks saying good for him he shouldn't be saying that, and folks feel differently. we are taking our thoughts on it on twitter. let me know what you think. key witnesses, eyewitnesses to the aftermath of the travon martin killing starts changing their version of events. some of them claimed to have seen the whole thing. a special edition, early edition of "kelly's court" is a few minutes away. plus, we have a troubling piece of video raising new questions about a key ally of the democrats, look at this. why are members of a powerful labor union taking a baseball bat to an opinio a pinada with

governor nick lee hailey's face on it. stu varney has some answers. is it time for president obama to reconsider the comments he offered for the occupy wall street movement? jay carney was asked those questions yesterday and his response may be raising more questions than answers today. that is right after this break. >> the president has voiced support for the occupy folks in the past, based on their goals. did their actions in chicago sour his support? high schools in six states enrolled

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megyn: welcome back, folks, 1:34 in the east. we are tracking a developing story in baghdad where the pressure is building on iran to abandon its nuclear program. the second round of big talks between iran and western governments got underway in iraq this morning. iran offering what it calls concessions, while the state department moments ago announced a new list of what it is calling demands. where are we with this? is this just a huge stall tactic or are we accomplishing something meaningful. ambassador john bolton who has spent years trying to dee keep nuke's out of iran's hand is sharing that event and will talk to us here in just a bit.

do you believe that? can you believe that this is the united states of america? protests turning ugly a few days ago during the nato summit in chicago. many in the crowd wearing shirts or holding signs for the occupy movement. in all 100 protestors were arrested, four police officers were injured, including one who was stabbed. and once more last week three occupy protestors were arrested for conspiracy to commit terrorism. fox news' wendell goler asked the white house yesterday about the president's past supportive comments for this group. >> the president has voiced support for the occupy folks in the past based on their goals. did their actions in chicago sour his support? >> well i think you're making broad comparisons between differing groups. what the president has said in the past is that he has understood the frustrations that americans have about the failure

on in particular of wall street in some cases to -- well because -- yeah, obviously wall street's role in the financial crisis that helped precipitate the worst recession gains the great depression. megyn: did that make you feel uncomfort? it made me feel uncomfortable. joining me now is monica crowley. and julia row gin ski, and both are fox news contributors. did it make you feel uncomfortable? you don't like to see anybody struggling like that. >> a brain freeze jo i've been there many times. but the point is why did he instrumenting snell he's a human being and it happens, but why on that issue, and what is happening here? does the president need to take a step away from the occupy wall street protestors and how close was he ever linked with them to begin with? >> he probably should, but he won't, megyn and here is why. occupy wall street was orchestrated and then deployed

last fall for two main reasons, one to supply barack obama with his central campaign theme, which is income and equality and they've been able to establish that. and the president has really been able to make quite good use of that theme. but the second reason is to sew enough discord in our society you've seen it in cities all across the countries. so that the redistribution agenda more easily get through. they can't push it through without this kind of chaos. that's what occupy wall street is all b. should the president condemn it? of course he should. he won't because he needs them. megyn: you know, o'reilly was on fox yesterday saying this movement has changed from what it once was. when we saw sally cohen out there downtown new york, this doesn't seem like the same group standing for the same principles. i mean people stabbing cops and going to the bath rom on police cars, and threatening police with machetes. this is -- this does seem to have morphed into something very

different. >> there is obviously no excuse of doing anything you just described. and there is no excuse for people to show up at tea party rallies, try to highjack them and make an analogy between adolf hitler and barack obama. megyn: do you see a corruption of this movement? >> here is what i see. i see a phoefment that i think is a very morpheous movement. it's been hijacked to some extent when people resort to violence, which is never excusable. people who resort to defecating on cop cars which is inexcusable. and stabbing police is inexcusable. you've got that. any of these groups and you have a large group like this. could be infiltrat infiltrated by 10, 20, even a hundred bad actors and somehow they are a reflection of the group at large. i see the occupy month. as having a specific message i don't think violence ever part of that message. if it's been hijacked by people

that do violence that is a shame. megyn shame. >> some of these shock troops in chicago and else where are engaging in violent acts. i think we need to pay closer attention to the generals who are sending the troops out in the street. from the beginning, from july of last year when they started envisions what occupy wall street would be we had unions, seiu, afl-cio. the international social lis movement. the american communist party. go look at the early feet oaths of awful the banners of the american communist party out there. megyn: we can't a tribute that violence to those specific groups. >> you have to understand why they are acting like this. they know they won't get conservatives like me to go out there. they were rallying kids and aging hip peace and socialists and everybody else to go in the streets. remember later on in the movement, actually a couple weeks into it you had van jones, bill heirs. this was all the same re revolution that we've seen throughout the 20th century.

megyn: that is all well and good. nobody is going to say because big labor went into the occupy movement president obama should disavow it. it's a question of all the violence we're seeing. the president never came out and said, i'm with occupy. when asked about it he says i understand the frustration. the question is whether now he needs to say, let's take a breath, tamp down the violence. >> he should and i'm sure he will. megyn: are you? i mean the white house was given the chance yesterday to speak to it. megyn: listen i think jay carney had a brain freeze as i said. i'm sure if he had to redo it again he probably would have said something different. i will say this. look you can't blame the occupy movement any more than you can blame the tea party movement over hurling racist insults. megyn: do they stab police officers? >> you can't -- megyn: sexual assaults at several of these things, use ago machete, threatening a machete against another person.

>> i'm saying it's inexcusable. the same way that dick armey was the founder of the tea party movement did he go out there and condemn racist comments? >> there were no racist comments. megyn: i'm not going to get back in that debate again. >> i went to these tea party part taoefplts i eyewitnessed firsthand people going out -- megyn: you're pointing out bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior. >> i'm not justifying it at all. in the same way you had a few bad actors. the wack os going out and saying barack obama is adolf hitler. megyn: i've got to go, i've got to go. thank you ladies as always. taking your thoughts on it. eyewitness testimony is crucial in the trayvon martin george zimmerman shooting case. today there are serious new questions as we see how dramatically some of these eyewitness testimonials have

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megyn: "kelly's court" is back in session today in a special and early edition. on the docket today a change of witness accounts and how in the trayvon martin shooting case. four critical witnesses backtracking on what they first told police they saw and heard on the night that george zimmerman fatally shot the teenager trayvon martin. what does this mean for the case? joining me now, joey jackson and mike eiglarsh, both are former prosecutors, now defense attorneys. wow, wow. i want to start with you on this mark as the fake lawyer for

george zimmerman in the case. because let me just key it up for our viewers, can't go through all the evidence here but trace gallagher put a nice bit together at the beginning of the show. this is the one guy, one of the key witnesses who first described the beat down as trayvon martin on top of george zimmerman biting on him mma style, mixed martial arts. this is the first way he described it to the police right after it happened. listen. >> and then, you know, i tried to tell him, you know, get out of here, stop or whatever. and then the one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much throwing down blows on the guy, kind of mma style, on the concrete at this point. megyn: a month later, not quite, this is how he now describes it. >> it looked like, you know, he had been hitting him from on top but, you know, i can't truly see how close, you know, they were to each other, if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold

him down in that position until the cops got there. megyn: mark? >> goodness gracious i think this is wonderful for the defense. any time you have witnesses who give a statement at one point, swearing under the penalties of perjury, they are certain, they are trying to be honest and credible and then later they give a statement that is different than the statement they gave at first, the defense lawyers can have a field day witness. it doesn't matter which one they are going to claim is true and accurate. there is inconsistencies, so i would always ask the witness, what your memory gets better with age, like wine? megyn: that's right. and they are all -- they are not all, at least four witnesses, joey are now changing their stories. one woman who said she just saw the two guys fighting is now saying, oh, zimmerman was the one who was on the top. she is the only witness who would say that zimmerman was on the top. they all say that trayvon martin was on the top. now she says, oh, no it was zimmerman. you tell me what happened between statements that were initially given and statements

three weeks later. >> here is what has to happen and i don't disagree with anything mark says. it's in the interest of the prosecution to rehabilitate these witnesses. this is how they are going to do it. there is a distinction between lying and being mistaken number one. and there is a distinction between changing your story and clarifying your story and i think the prosecution has to say that they were pressed further for details. for example with the mma style, are you sure, sir that he was striking blows mma style or could it have been that he -- you simply saw hand movements that were on the ground such that he may have been pinning him and not punching him? and i think the prosecution in an effort to rehabilitate these witnesses will suggest that these are not wholesale changes, they are points of clarification to insure that they are saying the right thing. megyn: how do you make that point, mark when you've got him saying he was throwing down blows on the guy mma style, to, um, maybe he was just trying to hold him down. >> you don't. anyone who knows anything about the criminal arena knows this hurts the prosecution. how about the other witness who

claims for sure she sees one guy and another guy running, that equals two guys. later she changes her testimony to say it was only one guy. finally the latest round of testimony is, well i really didn't see them, i just heard it. what in another testimony, like in depositions she is going to say, i only dreamed about it? megyn: this is the problem joey, this case has so much media skraout tphaoefplt you've got the new black panthers running around putting a bounty on george zimmerman's head. you have people saying you're a racist if you don't believe george zimmerman belongs in jail. you tell me you have eyewitnesses that are scared to stick by their original testimony that may in some cases be to the benefit of zimmerman. >> i think that's a fair point. this is a very public case, public exposure, if you do testify people are going to know who you are. there is a threatening element to it. do you say things that could potentially, you know, hurt zimmerman that if they hurt zimmerman and they help trayvon martin are you going to be loved, hated?

and so people are very skeptical and very scared if you're a witness to say things that may publicly be not in their best interests. but there is really two quick things. the first thing is regarding the one mark pointed out. that witness initially said she was wearing contact lenses and wasn't quite sure. there is another witness megyn who speaks to the issue of the tone that zimmerman used at the time. and what he said who encountered zimmerman in the aftermath of the shooting said zimmerman said call my wife. later he was pressed as to the tone and the witness said he was very matter fact about it. he was like i don't care, call my wife i just shot somebody. >> that witness has no value. >> i think it has a lot of value because it speaks to the issue, mark of what your state of mind is. is this something that you do as a matter of course? or is this something that was very traumatic that you didn't want to do but had to do it. >> the issue is whether zimmerman reasonably feared death or great bodily harm and if he was the aggressor did he use every reasonable means to escape the harm, period, end of

story the prosecutors now have a problem with inconsistent statements by their witnesses. megyn: they are going to drive a truck through these inconsistencies, whether you like it or not. a life threatening emergency takes a stunning turn when a woman calls 911 for help. what she hears on the other end of the call will shock you. next. tival of shrimp. the crab-stuffed shrimp are awesome! tequila lime tacos. [ man ] delicious! [ male announcer ] it's festival of shrimp! for $12.99 try any two shrimp creations like new barbeque glazed shrimp. offer es soon. we're servers at red lobster. and we sea food differently. free streaming quotes, all your investments, positions, and even your trade ticket are all on one customizable page. see the all-new 360 investing dashboard at e-trade.

megyn: newly released 911 tapes sparking out rage after a woman calls to get an ambulance for her husband and is met on the other end of the line by the rattling snore of the 911 dispatcher. trace gallagher has more, trace. >> reporter: we can't believe the whole thing, megyn because the 911 call is five minutes long. during those five minutes we heard the dispatcher snore 14 times. the woman called 911 because her husband was having difficulty breathing. they transferred her to the fire department because only the fire

department can send an ambulance, except the fire dispatcher was a sleep. listen. >> hold on one second, ma'am, let me try and get them on the line again. what is the address. >> he's turning all blue right now. i don't know what to do. >> all right. is that him i hear in the background is that him i hear doing that snoring noises? >> reporter: so you have the dispatcher a sleep, the other 911 operators are trying to help this poor woman, and they still think the person snoring is the husband. listen. >> is the blueness going away? >> oh, to me it looks not good to me. >> okay, he's still making those

noises? >> reporter: still making those noises, after five minutes the fire department dispatcher finally wakes up like nothing happened. listen. >> yes, but he's like -- i -- oh, he's -- oh -- oh, i don't know what to do. >> okay, ma'am. >> ma'am, what is the address. >> 11420. >> i'm on the call. >> reporter: right? so the fire department finally wakes up. he was in hour 17 of a 24-hour shift. the fire department says that is nothing out of the ordinary. the husband by the way lived, he's fine, megyn, despite all that. megyn: we are all slack skwraud here in the studijawed here in the studio holy mole. you have to be like, hole low. coming up. did the white house give hollywood filmmakers access to

classified info on a movie regarding the osama bin laden. it's a flick supposed to hit theaters before the november election. what we found coming up. on the heels of my two-part sit down with the parents of baby lisa irwin we are joined by mark fuhrman. the former homicide detective tells us where he thinks the case stands now and what he makes of the so-called new clue.

megyn: a fox news alert on new developments with reports suggesting the white house may have given hollywood filmmakers classified intelligence to help them prepare a movie about the navy seal raid that killed sam rsh. the movie is called "zero dark 30." it was slated to be released right before the 2012 election and the new report raises questions about who in the obama administration signed off on what disclosures.

>> reporter: new york congressman peter king said the writer and director of ""the hurt locker"" may have gotten access to classified information to help prepare this movie about the death of usama bin laden. the white house insists they did not. the document show they got high-level access to prepare a film expected to be quite flatter together president. >> the filmmakers were given the keys to the kingdom. they met with top officials at the cia. they met with top officials at the pentagon and they met with top officials at the obama white house. >> reporter: the two filmmakers got interviews with senior administration officials, a tour of a model of usama bin laden's compound, and a building

so secret its name was redacted. also the name of the navy seal who participated. the white house says the information it provide was given to all reporters, but that's certainly not the case with the access these people are given. critics are sensitive any time the president or his campaign mentioned bin laden an did so in an air force academy speech today. >> for the first time in your lives, usama bin laden is no longer a threat to our country. >> reporter: one of the biggest complaints about the bin laden movie is it was timed to be released shortly before the november election. it's unclear if the producers have stuck to the timing. megyn: one of the president's biggest hollywood supporters will reportedly not be waiting

until after the election to release "code name geronimo." which is what the seals called bin land. harvey weinstein is securing the rights for the movie which he plans to release in late september or october. he has been an active supporter of the president. from south carolina. troubling video shows scene outgoing union leader taking a bat to a pinata with a picture of the republican governor nikki haley. she has been extremely outspoken about reducing the influence of unions in the right-to-work state of south carolina. but this is not what democrats want to see from their own allies. even the national office of the

afl-cio expressed discomfort. but wait until you hear the reason why they didn't like it. stu were let's start with this. i'm gleaning -- i'm getting the feeling that the unions don't love governor haley. what is behind this? >> reporter: there is no love lost between governor haley and the unions. look at pinata. you will see a note attached to it. the note says unions are not need, not wanted and not welcome in the state of south carolina. that's a quote from governor nikki haley in her state of the state recent message. so clearly no love lost between nikki haley and the unions. this goes back to the boeing case. boeing wanted to move to a non-union manufacturing plant in south carolina and move from the union state of washington to south carolina. governor haley was in favor of

that move. the unions sued governor haley and told her to stop talking about the union issue. don't even mention the unions when you talk about boeing. they sued, they lost. no love lost between the unions and governor haley. then you have that violent and ugly i am imagine that bin ideaa bashing. megyn: the democrats have talked about a war on women it's a visual that's inappropriate and you don't want out there. apparently the afl-cio national saw that and said is there any way we can get this video which was posted on youtube? let's get this down so it doesn't get circulated out there. then they came out, stu, and this is what the afl said. well, while it was meant as fun, it's all good fun. there is no place for that kind of a joke in a conversation that is extremely serious about how to rebuild our middle class in

our country. there is plenty to talk about in governor haley's awful record. working people deserve better. working people deserve a better conversation about you a bad and awful she is. >> reporter: one of the reasons they wanted to take down this inappropriate video was because they were worried it might get into the hands of the tea partyers or be used by governor haley against the unions which is what happened. megyn: she tweeted it out. governor haley seize an opportunity herself here. she talked about this outgoing afl-cio president who seems come trite. she said it was fun and games and there was no ill intent. she came out and said we could have played a different game. we could have played opinion the tail on the donkey and put her face on the donkey.

>> reporter: supposing it was the other way around. supposing it was a democrat's face on there or worst of all, the president of the united states. supposing his face was on a pinata being bashed publicly. the establishment media would may more attention to that. it seems they haven't paid attention to this. it seems it's okay to have these violent images so long as you are bashing an anti-union person and a woman. not too good. megyn: from washington we are getting grim new warning about the u.s. economy. the congressional budget offers predicting the economy will fall off a quote fiscal cliff if the bush-era tax cuts are allowed to expire and spending cuts are also made in the months ahead. jim angle is live in warn. those are set to expire the end of this year. >> reporter: that right. the cbo has the impact.

500 million dollars in annual tax cuts will take effect at the end of the year. the cbo says that along with spernlding cuts you mentioned will put the brakes on the economy, forcing it to shrink by 1.3% in the first half of next year. listen. >> the congressional budget office is saying that could cost us economic growth and we all believe if we don't get these tax rates extended what's going to have a profound impact on the economy and it will cost a lot off growth and a lot of jobs. >> what is even worse than the reality is the uncertainty of not knowing what's going to happen and that affects business decisions more than the reality would. >> reporter: republicans have been warning about the impact of this for some time and are determined to stop it. >> we are going to try every way we can to make sure taxes don't go up on anybody. we have to make sure we are doing everything we can instead

to grow jobs and get this economy back on track. >> what is the president's plan to stop the largest tax increase in history occurring january 1. >> reporter: republicans say it's a blunt object and should be replaced with other cuts. democrats say there is another way, tax increases. >> a move on revenues, we could have had a deal a long time ago. >> reporter: nancy pelosi laying out in an email where she is challenging republicans to schedule a vote immediately to extend tax cuts for middle income americans only. republicans argue taxes on higher income earners will slow the economy. megyn: we have breaking news on the effort to get iran to dismantle its nuclear program. ambassador john bolton is live with us in three minutes on the

big announcement from the state department that we just got. these big talks about iran's program are happening right now. we have the breaking news and ambassador bolton's reaction. we are look for answer to the new questions being raised in the search for missing baby lisa irwin. special guest former l.a.p.d. homicide detective mark fuhrman joins with us his thoughts on my interview with little lisa's parents and where he believes this investigation stand some 7 months after her disappearance. a laundry list of high 4 profile democrats democrats breaking with the president on his attacks on mitt romney and bain capital. it was suppose to be what the campaign was about, according to the president himself. is he in trouble with one of his main arguments against his republican rival. >> in other words, success is

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megyn: a fox news alert. today's nuclear talks with iran ending with what the state department says is detailed steps iran can take to profits nuclear programs for peaceful purposes only. now they wait for iran to respond and obviously the stakes are very high. am bass store john bolton is the former ambassador to the united nations and a fox news contributor. the state department says major powers put forward a detailed proposal including confidence-building measures and prior to today they said the talks would foings confidence

building measures that iran is only pursuing peaceful nuclear program. how are they going to build our confidence about that? >> this is a trap that we have fallen into before with iran. and what's surprising here is that we are proposing the trap. iranians would love to suck the united states and others into an endless display of negotiations. during which time they will simply continue to make progress on their nuclear weapons program. megyn: it seems like we are saying convince us you are pursuing nuclear efforts for peaceful purposes. when you say that is ignoring reality. we already know it is not for peaceful purposes. >> reporter: if anybody thinks this is for peaceful purposes there are a lot of bridges for sale in new york.

so this is a charade i think driven by the obama administration's need to find something to use to pressure israel not to use military force against the iranian program. for the europeans to find some way out of the embargo on oil imports they imposed on iran which threatens their own fragile economies. megyn: what should we say, just knock it off? >> reporter: the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, they have been violating that for 20 years. the europeans for 10 years and the security council for six years has said no enrichment. for us to give up on that legit legitimizes an iranian capability to create nuclear weapons in a short period of

time. forget substance. this is a terrible way to negotiate. it signals weakness and desperation to iran and you can pet they will take advantage of it. i want to show our viewers what you predicted the iranians would do during the course of these negotiations. >> i think that important of iran's strategy to throw sand in our eyes to you offer meaningless concessions in advance of the next negotiation session in baghdad next week, all intended to drag this thing out as long as possible. megyn: do you feel validated? >> i should teach negotiations to the state department. megyn: today we get a new term courtesy of reuters. the eu3 plus 3 side. what is the eu3 plus 3 that's trying to dismanning iran's nuclear program. >> eu3 plus 3 is what the

europeans call this. it tells you something about our state department that they used the european term rather than the term most americans use. megyn: russia comes out and says, iran appears ready for serious discussion. they talk about our potential new sanctions saying those would seriously undermine the efforts to reach agreement with iran. the russians still not on board. >> they sit in these meetings and not break out laughing when the west offers these proposals. russia knows what iran is doing. they are playing for time. they want relief from some of the sanctions because of the loss of refer night' causing iran. but they have no intention of giving up their nuclear weapons program. megyn: do we take any heart in this tentative agreement brokered by the iaea?

they say they are going to be allowed to inspect the parchin military complex outside of iran. >> it's a framework and schedule to address outstanding questions about the iranian program over a period of time for which the iranians will ask concessions from the europeans and americans. i think that's part of what the negotiations are all about. they are not saying they are going to open parchin. x know from overhead photography they have been cleaning under the parchin site to disguise whatever was there. megyn: they will let us in as soon as they are done with that. they have a warning for us saying our policies of pressure and intimidation are futile. >> if we were pressuring and intimidating i would feel better about it. megyn: coming under the president's reelection team goes after governor romney on his business background. but now a lot of backlash from

members of the president's own party. we'll see what that means for the president's argument in this 2012 race. a u.s. airways flight diverted and fighter jets scrambled after a passenger claimed to have an explosives device surgically implanted. we'll show you what we just learned about the suspect as other passengers are speaking out. >> they kept moving around the plane. she finally went to the back and stayed in the back. and next thing we knew we were landing in bangor.

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megyn: former first lady nancy reagan is recovering after a

frightening fall. she suffered broken ribs after taking a tumble in her home six weeks ago. she was expected to attend a speech last night by congressman paul ryan at the library but doctors individuals her to avoid big events for now. a u.s. airways flight diverted after a passenger claimed she had something hidden inside her body. fighter jets scrambled and the plane made an emergency landing in maine. the feds met the plane and arrested the passenger and now we are learning more about her. trace gallagher has more at the breaking news desk. >> reporter: the identity of this woman has not been released. but she is a french citizen born in cameroon. her name has not come back on any terror watchlist.

but what they do not know is why she hand a flight attendant a note saying she had a surgically implanted bomb. the crew notified authorities, u.s. fighter jets western scrambled. the pilot was told to make an emergency landing in bangor, maine while the f-15s trailed him in. >> she basically didn't feel well. she didn't feel well at all on the flight, so they kept moving aaround on the plane with when they took her to the back and she stayed at the back. and then there was a lot of confusion over trying to determine which bags were hers. >> reporter: we interviewed congressman peter king saying the u.s. has been warned about these surgically implanted bombs. >> i can tell you from what i'm aware of that there are surgeons

who can perform this type operation. we don't think it many been tested. but medically and scientifically it can work. we have to be concerned it can work and we have to be on guard for it. >> reporter: experts say anybody who had one of these bombs surgically implanted would show signs of pain or discomfort because after recent surgery. still no word as to the mental state of the passenger who was arrested and is in fbi custody. megyn: a potential new clue in the search for answers in the case of missing missouri baby lisa irwin. now on the heels of my sitdown with the baby's parents. mark if you areman will join us live and we'll get his take on the clue that little lisa's parents want police to pursue plus what he thought of my interview. plus a growing number of

high-profile democrats continue to break with the president over his attacks against governor romney's business record at bain capital. is the president in trouble with one of what he says is his main argument against his republican rival? >> we are talking about success. obama despises successful people, unless of course they can be used to advance his cause like the buffets and the soroses and people like that. how much coffee are you fellows going to need today?

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megyn: now to the biggest political story of the last week. the growing concern among democrats about how the president's election team is attacking mitt romney's time running bain capital. a number of supporters have rejected or failed to support the president's line of attack. it started last week with the former car czar who called the attacks unfair. then over the weekend cory booker who called the ad campaign news yaight, then harold ford defended his remarks from attacks on the left. on that same day an ad focused on bain was released.

tuesday massachusetts governor duval patrick says he respects private equity companies and bain is not a bad company. then ed rendell called the ads, quote, very disappointing. california senator dianne feinstein suggested the president's campaign should move on to other things. and again all of these are democrats and some are staunch supporters of the president who says this, this line atakes what the campaign is about. joining me now to debate it, my power panel, mark hannah, and bill mcgurn, a former speech writer for george w. bush and columnist for the "wall street journal." and janine burelli who is the

author of "backlash." the democrats are distancing themselves from the white house. mark, what do these democrats feel the need to criticize this line attack and why is it so important to the white house? boy, have we seen the white house and other around gats pushing back in a major way. >> the white house supports private equity and thinks it's an important part of a capitalistic economy. but as soon as mitt romney makes his experience at bain an issue in the campaign it becomes fair game. he's saying this qualifies him as a yes tension to be president. i think the president and everybody else critiquing that understands it's a completely different enterprise to be president of the united states than it is to be chairman after company in the world of high finance. megyn: that sounds reasonable. is that the argument they are

making? >> i think they are making. but i think some of these democrats realize this is not the path to victory. if usual cory berke and you are an executive and presiding over newark, what you need is private equity in that city. this is an insane line attack. the empire and the congressman said they are raping companies. this is not a confident model of getting to the 21st century. i disagree when you say the president supports private equity. fact that he has to say that now is because paul the body language and attacks suggest otherwise that he doesn't understand private capital at all. megyn: if the attacks had been how mitt romney approached bain capital. if it had been a different sort of private equity firm. but the way mark just made the argument, you tell me, it sound reasonable. but it didn't sounds like the

attacks we have heard against bain prior to this dust-up. >> obama has been hypocrite tall. he's demonizing wall street but he's fundraising with wall street. this shows how desperate and how much trouble obama's administration is in. his base is fractured. you have democrats complaining about this attacks on class warfare. you have unions up against the environmentalists. you have black voters who don't agree with him on gay marriage so they are questioning his leadership decisions as well. so his base to me is fractured. and this is a very serious concern for the white house and they are trying to cover as much as they can. but we'll see if it works. megyn: it's clear the white house did not like what this newark mayor said. a lot of our viewers may not be familiar with cory berke.

why is the mayor of newark causing a firestorm. clearly the white house cares. the same day mayor booker came out with a 4-minute youtube video trying to clarify. then david axlerod comments on it. and president obama comments on it. then berke goes on msnbc to talk about it some more. the campaign of the president didn't like what he said. why do they care so much? >> cory booker is a rock star mayor from the city of newark. he's doing great things for the city that was very economically dee pressed. there is a lot of attention paid to what cory booker says. i think his general point that he he loathes a campaign marked bid a mom number attacks. and he criticized the jeremiah

wright -- megyn: everybody expected him to do that. >> i think he realized his major point was lost. private equity companies are great, but the fact that mitt romney is making it an issue, it's fair game for critique. i worked in business, i studied at wharton school of business. i have a lot of friends working in private equity. they are making short term profits for their investors. >> he was beaten with the liberal stick because he strayed off the plan taiftion what their message points were. he back tracked on his words. he was speaking the truth how he felt. and that morning to that afternoon he had that video out and they edited it. i'm very disappointed. megyn: did they cause more harm than good in making it such a big deal? now, you seat list of democrats

who say i feel the same way as cory booker. >> i think it's a disaster for the white house. rhetoric has consequences. business is nervous about this white house. yesterday joe biden went out there and said bain being a financier. year makes you no more qualified to be president than a plumber. this is a real amateur hour. and it looks like they do not understand this. the fact that they now have to say they support private equity is all their body language and stories about profits, the way they are regulating things suggest they don't understand the dynamic of private equity and cory berke is a reform mayor because he took on business as usual in a democratic city. megyn: does this hobble the president in his effort to use

this argument on a go-forward basis? >> i wish he was making this point when newt begin privilege and governor perry -- megyn: who came out and said i can't believe president obama is taking this line of attack. you said it yourself. >> i think the white house will stop using this line of criticism and stop making this contrast as soon as mitt romney's campaign stops saying he created jobs. >> all the white house is runing are on is class warfare. they can't run on obama's record. look at the unemployment and high energy prices. >> there is a difference between being able to go in, streamline operations, slash wages, you know, cut a couple redundancies

than being the president of the united states where you have to look out for all people. megyn: it was interesting to me that president obama said this is what the campaign is about. this is what the campaign is about? mitt romney's record at bain? >> what other record does he? the governor of massachusetts my home state in let's make it about that. megyn: why is the president saying it's about mitt romney's report at bain? >> because mitt romney made it about that. we are using words like vampire. newt gingrich. megyn: vampire, vulture. >> the next one was rape. this is not a serious argument. it successes they don't understand how business works. so they spent all these years attacking business, attacking

profits and so forth. now they say, gee, we are in favor of private equity. i think it -- they made it a very hard sell. megyn: got to go. you did very well. you were the lone democrat on the panel. but these two -- i have got to go, thank you both so much. next time we'll do two democrats and one republican. thank you all. up next how a harmless toy is being turned into a potentially deadly weapon. trace as a look at an arrest in l.a. there has been no sign of her since last october. now new reaction from our guest mark fuhrman to my interview of the parents of missing baby lisa irwin. when i talked to you months ago you told me you thought would know in your bones if your child were no longer alive. >> there is no question in my

mind someone has her and she is ok and i have faith in god he will bring her home to us.

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refreshing nutrition in charge! megyn: after months of silence the parents of mission baby lisa say there is a new lead in the case. she says her father jeremy irwin's debit card was fraudulently used to pay a web site in the u.k. hat offers name changes for babies. now those parents are demanding answers. >> we want answers. we understand they have a job to do. but it's been almost 8 months since we have seen our daughter. we want answers and we want lisa. we are not going away until that happens, until she comes home. you would think they would start look elsewhere. maybe they have and i don't know about it. i talked to the fbi over the phone consistently.

almost routinely. but it is frustrating when you feel like you are not getting any answers. where are they looking? what are they doing? megyn: joining me now mark fuhrman, a former homicide detective for the los angeles police department. let me get your reaction to this new clue they are pointing the police to. it's new to the media. they are dissatisfied to which the extent the cops followed up. >> it's an interesting clue because it means almost nothing. they have known about this since last year. so it's interesting that now they choose to bring it forward to the media and actually accuse the media of being one of the problem as well as the kansas city police. this clue. a debit card was taken. you take out the emotions of the victim's family, you take out the emotions all together and you look at this. somebody came into the house.

they came into a window, left no evidence that they were there. they turned lights on. they took a baby while the house was occupied. they left leaving no evidence out the front door or back out the window. they leave and in the process they take cell phones, somehow they manage to get a debit card number then or later or before. and then they have a 10-month-old baby that can't talk, can't identify themselves, don't even know who they are, can't speak, and they have this inclination that they need to use the irwin's debit card to try to change the baby's name from a legal name without a certificate? it's the most absurd thing i have ever heard it, not a lead and the kansas city police probably went through the motions -- they probably felt the same thing i did. megyn: you said in watching the interview that you felt lisa's mother is getting more

aggressive. those are your words. why do you think that? >> she is turning blame to the media and the police department. let's first look at some facts here. she says she wants answers. well, then, maybe you should go to the police department. october 20, her attorney told the police department you can't talk to my clients directly unless you go through me. that's october 20, 2011. the last time they saw the kansas city police was february 22 where they provided no useful information and to this day refuse to be interviewed separately. megyn: she says she has been talking to the fbi. i want to ask but this ex exchange. the attorney let the clients answer the questions. the thing he got upset about was the time line. what happened when this case first broke was the cops came out and said after interviewing

the parent that the last time the mother saw the baby was at 10:30 that night or 10:40 when she was going to bed and she checked on the baby. then almost a month later when i interviewed the parents they told me that in fact she was no longer certain whether she had ever seen that baby at 10:30. the last time she checked on her was 6:40 in the evening. it was a big change in the case. i asked debra about it, she admitted she made a mistake. look how the lawyer jumped in. i want to get your reaction. >> the point is she doesn't recall. megyn: what happened, joe, she originally told law enforcement that she last saw the baby at 10:40. >> she never said that. that's the problem. the cops -- that's what the cops put out there through some spokesperson. but i spoke with the fbi, i understand the time line. megyn: i spoke with your client

as well. but there was no question the initial report she last checked on the baby at 10:40. when i sat down with her she said i don't know whether i checked on her at 10:40 or not. his client was admitting what i was saying but he was taking issue with it. why, mark? >> you have got to try to massage to it your advantage. i think that's what this media adventure was the last few days. they had no new information and they already know it was not good information it was ridiculous information. so they have these avenues they are saying we are calling the fbi. it many not the fbi's case. they assisted in this. there is no federal crime. it's the kansas city case. if you want to talk to the detectives then you offer cooperation the way they think that they need it.

that means why are you afraid to be interviewed by yourself? so you look at this time line. you and i talked before and after this interview. meg require want to get your thoughts on the time line right after this break. we are going to carry you over, mark. thanks so much. [ gans ] [ marge ] psst. constipated? phillipscaplets use magnesiu an ingredient that rks more naturally with your colon than stulant laxatives, phillipscaplets use magnesiu for effective relie of constation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue...

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megyn: back with mark fuhrman. you were going to say your thoughts on the time line discrepancy and your reaction to it. >> this time line wasn't just offered once or twice it was offered multiple times not only by the irwins but it was offered by a spokesman for the police which are only work on the information the detectives are gleaning. the fbi is not handling this case so contact them is pointless.

if you remember, megyn. when this all broke and your interview broke, the kansas city police said we have to reinterview people because this breaks up the time line and opens it up almost four hours farther. so they had to reinvestigate the actual interviews of the i are wins and the other people involved. about this time, the irwins were starting to be unavailable. megyn: let me show you something else it many a moment that jumped out at me. you tell me. her reaction seemed genuine and she finished the sentence for me. watch this. >> i look at every baby. i look at every single baby. by the time i leave a public place i'm so drains from staring at every kid. we don't know what they have her dressed like. they don't know if her hair has been cut or it's longer.

i imagine she would have much more teeth. megyn: when you go to malls when you go to public places -- before i could say do you look for her she jumped in with every single kid. either she is an incredible liar or she really is looking for her little girl. >> i'm not going to pass judgment on who she is because i don't know her. that being said, every detective watching this right now knows what i'm going to say. you sift through the emotions of people that are suspects, witnesses and victims because you have to. you don't know them, you don't know what's genuine, you don't know what is acting. you have no idea. you are after the facts. the police are not concerned with tears, they are concerned with the facts and the victim. these two people are not the victims. the baby is the victim and that is the responsibility of the kansas city police department.

not deborah bradley and jeremy irwin. megyn: it's been 7 months and still no sign of little baby lisa irwin. we'll be right back.

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