persecution, there is a lot of reasons why america is america. >> sean: andy garcia, an honor to meet you. good luck with the movie. we will be watching. >> thank you. june 1 it opens. >> sean: that's it. all our time. thanks for being with us. have a great memorial day. >> tone, it's going to be a fight to the finish. wisconsin's historic recall election is days away and it's still too close to call. this a special edition of "on the record." you are going to hear from both sides of this very heated contest. governor scott walker and rebecca kleefisch go on the record and hear from the challengers, milwaukee mayor baret and firefighter mitchell. what happens in wisconsin doesn't stay in wisconsin. will the recall results help predict the outcome of the

presidential election? dick morris is here. but first, it is not only governor scott walker's job at stake, lieutenant governor is also fighting to keep her seat. the lieutenant governor faces a democratic challenge malin mitchell in the recall. he is head of the firefighter's union. we spoke to her about the recall battle. nice to talk to you. >> hi, greta. >> greta: is it fair to say, lieutenant governor, but for the collective barg ang spat -- i can't think of a better way to describe it -- that there would be no recall -- is that your understanding that this is the reason you are being recalled, and the governor? >> i think that ultimately that is why our oponents decided that it was a good idea to spend between $15 and $20 million in taxpayer money to put on this recall battle. i do think it was largely about that piece.

but now we know the researches have saved the taxpayers of wisconsin more than $1 billion, between state and local government. that's something that all wisconsin, all of our taxpayers can do a victory lap about. that's something to be proud of. >> greta: as i understand it, though, the cleaktive bargaining has aided some jurisdictions and not quite others. it is at least at this point, a missed bag. not everybody has benefited. is that right? >> well, it depends on whether the municipality or the school district used the reforms available to them. there were some entities that rushed to a contract with their union before they could realize the savings that they could capture in act 10. we saw that in particular in the milwaukee public school district. they rushed to a contract and they ended up in dire straits. they had to do layoffs. and that was very, very unfortunate. and so, when milwaukee

schools -- actually realized the opportunity to say, hey, lieutenant governor, we understand what you were trying to do here, can we have another swipe at this? can we try to do this? the governor signed legislation enabling milwaukee public schools to realize the savings. but when their teachers union voted on whether to realize the savings, whether they wanted to keep a raise for themselves or keep more money in the classrooms, keep teachers from being laid off, they voted for keeping the raise. >> greta: now, do you 100% agree with governor walker on every issue? >> oh, on every issue? probably not. but i think for a second that we have discussed every issue under the sun. i think in most cases, we do agree. that's the important importance of of having a really good relationship between the governor and the lieutenant governor and why the legislature decided to elect a governor and lieutenant governor together as

a ticket, which is how we were leaked to a four-year term in the fall of 2010. but the government accountability board and the attorney general have rules that we are being recalled separately. so our voters have a choice of forward or backwards, in both of these cases, not just in the governor's race, but also in the lieuten abt governor's race. >> greta: in theory, though it seems impractical, you could be elected or re-elected, however you want to call it and governor walker could lose and you could be the lieutenant governor to mayor barrett. i suspect you will win or lose together. but that could theoretically happen. >> i suppose, it could. i haven't spent any time thinking about it because i don't think it's going to happen -- >> greta: i don't either. >> i think we are going to win and i think that governor scott walker will continue to be the head of the executive branch of the state of wisconsin. >> greta: i mention that because of the uniqueness. >> it is. >> greta: you run individually

here. so i was giving the hypothetical. i think you will be elected or not, together. your opponent, mr. malin mitchell says you are simply a rubber stamp of the governor. now, i suppose you have a response to that? what's your response? >> well, i don't know that we need to spend much time on it to be frank with you. i think when you have a good partnership, a good team, in the executive branch, you want to have a governor and lieutenant governor who are working well together. i want a governor who entrusts me with big responsibles. you know that jobs and the economy, creating jobs in this state and making sure that we have a trained workforce in order to take those jobs, the two biggest priorities that we have, not just in the administration, but also among taxpayers and job creators and among the hard-working families that we listen to every single day. that is where i spend my time. the governor has appointed me his jobs ambassador. i travel the state, meeting with

small business owners and asking them how we can best help them to create jobs. how we can be their partners in job creation and work together on it. i spend my time, developing plans in order to connect more jobs and assuring that our job seekers have the skills they need for these employers to hire them. >> greta: notice, governor walker has said, with some reflection, that he wished, going back looking at the collective bargaining spat -- fight -- he wished he had communicated more to the people. he is self-reflective on that. i realize that you were not in the fire on this, but it was the governor. do you have any thought, now that you have had a chance to look at the first part of the term, do you have any thoughts on how you might have done things differently? >> i think governor walker has -- and i to the very correct answer here. we have spent a lot of time talking. i spent a lot of time talking to a lot of folks from different news outlets around the country last year about what was going

on in wisconsin, you know, why we were having the protests. it was because we passed really big reforms, not only addressing the problems of the past but the problems of the future. when we came into office, we were facing a $3.6 billion budget deficit, coming at us from the past. you look into the future and you saw the cost drivers of pensions and also the rising costs of helt care. so we had it coming at us from both ways. but we wanted to make sure that we were preserving taxpayers' desire to do a budget without raising taxes. so that's what we did. could we have sold the case, longer and made sure that people understood that there was a need, not just a want for this, but a need for it this? absolutely. the governor's dead on in describing it like that. >> greta: do you think the june 5 election is going to be a sort of precursor of november? in 2008, president obama won by a resounding number, 12 or 14

points in wisconsin. do you think that the numbers we see on june 5 are going to give us a big hint as to what will happen come november, whether president obama or governor romney wins wisconsin? >> you are a prophet. 83. i think wisconsin is a harbinger. i think we will be a huge momentum. we are a purple state. we are very passionate on both sides of the aisle. i think we saw a big indicator on primary night of where the republican and the taxpayer voter minds are right now. >> greta: lieutenant governor kleefisch going head to head with malin mitchell, president of the professional firefighters of wisconsin. nice to see you again, sir. >> nice to see you. good toto be back "on the record." >> greta: nice to have you here. all right. tell me, the collective barg ang

statute, which is what i see provoked the recall. what has been the real impact of the collective barg ang law? >> collective bargaining is about safety and working conditions. for instance, me being a firefighter, we don't talk about wages and hours, we talk about how to be safe as a firefighter, the gear we we're as firefighters and the trucks we ride on to protect and serve our community. other thing, if you look at some of the employee protections, as far as, for instance, teachers in west wisconsin, women who, have to wear a dress below the knee and high heels. that again, collective bargaining is not just hours and wages, it is working conditions and public safety. >> greta: i understand so the big picture was what the collective bargaining does. my question was more directed. you talk about safety and firefighters. as i understand it -- correct me if i am wrong-- the new

provision in the collective bargaining exempted firefighters and police officer, so we are talking about other public workers, is that right? >> that's not necessarily true. we were exempt from act 10, but we are hit by stateay. i was in wisconsin yesterday where they laid off five firefighters because the cut in state aid to them in that municipality. so it does affect us. it does affect fire and police and public safety. >> greta: all right. let me get back to the teachers. they have been told to wear dresses below the knees, where is this? >> west ellis. >> greta: under what theory? this is the first i am hearing about this. do tell me how this comes into the mix? >> it happens because their collective barg ang contract has been exhausted so they have employee handbooks which are put together by superintendents and school boards to direct the teachers and employees on the

dress and pay and hours and working conditions. you look into that. i will get it to you, actually. >> greta: i don't disagree. this is the first viheard of it -- >> they are not talking a lot about that, greta. >> greta: that's why i asked you. okay. [chuckles] >> greta: when governor walker took office, he had a $3.6 billion budget deficit he had to deal with. he abide by the constitution or by the law, he has to submit a balanced budget and the legislature has to balance the budget. if this were a year ago and you were the lieutenant governor working with a democratic governor, what would you have done differently to bring the gap? >> what i wouldn't do is give tax breaks to corporations in january. we have estimated next 10 years, it will be $2.3 billion in massive tax cuts to corporations. and i wouldn't have put the budget on the backs of the hard-working citizens of the state. he gives tax breaks in january, but in february, he has to balance the budget on the backs

of the middle-class celtses, the education, our kids, middle-class citizen it's teachers, nurses, firefighters, janitors. we need a budget that has true shared sacrifice. we talk about shared sacrifice. but we sack dispies they share the wealth. >> greta: let me go back to this. i haven't seen the tax breaks. i assume that was to attract business to the state and to focus on jobs, is that what the purpose is? >> we need -- yes. we need corporations in our state. we need industry in our state. we need businesses in our state. but we need true shared sacrifice. tax breaks, fine. but tax breaks without accountability to create jobs is where we have a problem. have you to give back to the community in order to get a tax break. we are seeing tax breaks without accountability. >> greta: you have not have done the tax breaks, to corporations.

how do you recover the $3.6 billion deficit that you are facing. how would you get revenue to account for the deficit? what would have done besides not have the tax breaks to corporations in january? >> have you to look at people like diane hendricks, one of scott walker's billionaire buddies, who has paid no taxes last year and if you look at tax breaks and the loophole, if we were to fill the loophoacialtion i would imagine you would find more than $3.6 billion to balance the budget. >> greta: so the theory is revision of the tax code would be the way to handle the budget deficit, give or take a couple million, i assume. >> my theory would be that we look at all avenues. but we don't just automatically give tax breaks to corporations and balance the budget on the hard-working citizens of our state. that's my theory to have true shared sacrifice in our state. >> greta: in terms, do you have any idea of what the cost

savings has been with the collective bargaining. i am not taking a side. i am trying to understand what the number is. has governor walker put out a number of how much he has recouped or recovered or somehow refined from this? >> i have not seen the numbers, gret a. but remember last year when you talk about cost savings, you know, you talk about the collective bargaining and cost savings, collective bargaining is about hours and working conditions and public safety. if you remember last year, the unions were never affected, conceded to the consegs of the health care and the pensions, but he had to go further and do a power grab. there is no doubt in my mind, when he talks about divide and conquer and the video that surfaced, that's what he was trying to do last year. divide and conquer the state, drop the bomb on our state. that's what he is doing. this is not about collective barg ang, this is about governor walker trying to divide and

conquer our state. >> everybody's in the margin of error. but your campaign's down. i am curious, would you have liked or would you like president obama to come in to wisconsin and campaign with you because he took the state by 12 or 14 points in '08? would he be helpful? >> i believe he would be. he has a huge, huge, busy agenda -- >> greta: he has -- he is doing -- he is doing some campaigning. he is campaigning for himself and would he help you? >> i love him. we are looking right now to talk to the people in the state and get our main out. so that's what we are focused on, we have 12 days left and the pressure's on. >> greta: giving the obama campaign a call? would you like to do that and convince him to come in? >> [laughter] >> we don't have time right now. >> greta: mr. mitchell, thank you very much. nice to talk to you. we will be watching. you know how much i love to

watch wisconsin politics. thanks for joining us. >> thank you, up next, governor scott walker, called a hero by the right. but that is not how they see him on the left. he is seen as a villain. can the governor survive this fight? we will hear from governor walker and his opponent, tom barrett. and the glare of the national spotlight heating you up in wois consin -- wisconsin. consin -- wisconsin. dick morris wil e love gardening... yeah, but the feeling wasn't always mutual. i should be arrested for crimes against potted plant-kind. we're armed, and inexperienced. people call me an over-waterer. [ female announcer ] with miracle-gro, you don't have to a great gardener to have a green thumb. every miracle-gro product helps your garden grow bigger, more beautiful flowers and bountiful vegetables. guaranteed. so even if... i have all these tools, and i have no idea how to use them. [ female announcer ] everyone grows with miracle-gro.

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>> the wisconsin recall election could come right down to the wire. governor scott walker touting his jobs record in a factory. that's where griff jenkins talk total owner. >> reporter: how has governor walker impacted your business? how do you feel about the recall? >> i think the recall is a very large waste of resources. we elected governor walker to do a job. he's done that job. and now we are trying to undo that. i believe my vote should come first time -- i shouldn't have to vote again for the same guy. >> reporter: so you don't like the recall? >> i don't like it at all. >> i think it's a waste of time. he won the election, regardless of what he is doing, he won the election. why the recall? let him serve his term and vote

next time. >> i think governor walker should be recalled. >> reporter: you do? tell me more. >> i upon not a big fan of taking the money from out of state, especially not being truthful with the money in the defense fund, i would like answers to those questions. i don't know. i don't trust him. >> i don't believe there is a recall justified here. he is doing hahe said he was going to do. he is reducing taxes and trying to make wisconsin a more friendly work environment, trying to attract jobs and put people to work. >> greta: griff also caught up with governor scott walker. >> reporter: how close do you think it will be? >> extremely close. think back to february and march and the special interest in washington started to send in the monet and bodies from around the country, into wisconsin, they haven't let up. even a week ago, the public emmeee union said they are going to spend more monoads and

get-out-the-vote efforts, i think it's going to be extremely tight through tuesday, june 5. >> reporter: your opponent told us when i asked him about it, most of your fund-raising, while you are outpacing him 25-1, he says it's out-of-state money, what's the truth there? >> the mike milwaukee paper did a review and showed that that is largely true of everybody involve because of the national attention on this because the national public employee unions and the big government union bosses that came in last year, draw attention to this. there are a lot of people, including small donor who is says, this guy's standing up for the taxpays -- taxpayers are $50 or less. but there are a lot of people in the midwest who value someone who is willing to stand up against special interests and defend the hard-working taxpayers. >> reporter: this race has gotten very nasty, very quickly.

your opponent just got in two weeks ago. what does that say about this effort? >> any time you see that money and influence coming from outside the state, most of the attack ads are not on our opponents, there are a lot of group, funded by the big government unions. people look at our ads, and most of them are me in a chair, talking to people about what is at stake, how we have created more jobs and what we doll to build off of that. i think that's what the people want to hear, what is the approach to move the state forward, not go backwards, but i think when you get that kind of money and influence from other state, oftentime, it gets negative real fast. we will get past this. i think the people are ready to vote, move on and move forward. >> reporter: it would appear that the race, with respect to jobs, that it's a debate over whose jobs are right and what whatnot. what is your plan to grow more

job fist they give you the rest of your term? >> clearly, it's to put -- reduce the cost of doing business in this state. overwhelmingly, i hear from small businesses about the uncertainty of the future. you make it certain with continuing to drop the taxes on the small businesses and the cost of streamlining the process with regulations and common sense, not red tape, making sure we stop frivolous and out-of-control lawsuits and continually with the manufacturers, being a partner, to have enough skilled workers to fit the jobs that are open today but they don't have the bodies to fill. if we do those sorts of things and have cost-effective, reliable sources of power in the state, we are going to put more people to work. it is not about more government. i understand that people create jobs, not the government. that's long been the opposite in mad sop and even more so in washington. politicians don't create jobs, we create an environment that is better or worse and the

overwhelming evidence is that we have created a better environment special we will build off those. >> reporter: how would your opponent, mayor barrett, do things differently? i mean, one thing i am having trouble as a reporter here, researching is exactly where you stand -- where do you differ? >> part of it is because he won't tell. he was asked 42 days ago, what he dolled since this race is supposedly about undoing the last year and-a-half. an obvious question would be, if you came in last year and inherited $3.6 billion deficit, what would you do to balance it? the mayor won't tell but the track record shows in milwaukee, he raised taxes and fees 43% the years he has been mayor of the city. it is one of the top 10 poorest cities in the country and unemployment is up 28% in that city. it's clear what his approach would be -- more government, more spending, higher taxes. >> my approach is the opposite. i think if you put more money in the hands of the ebbet --

entrepreneurs andi they will stimute -- stimulate the economy. i like the mayor, but i don't agree with him. i don't think government is the solution to our problem, i think government overwhelmingly is the problem. >> reporter: he calls you the rock star of the tea party. [chuckles] >> reporter: how do you respond? >> i have two high school sons being called a rock star of anything is amusing. when i go to the music festival, my kids think i go to the old fogyies. i am working for the hard-working taxpayers. i was a local county official, overwhelmingly, the big government union called the shots for years. i finally stood up to them last year and said i think the hard-working taxpayers should be in charge. that's why i have a target on my head and the attention of the negative attention from the

special interest group who is want to take me out, but i think why people in the state and maybe some in the country have taken notice and said, we are willing to take on those interests to make sure that the taxpayers are back in charge. >> greta: coming up, you can feel the tension in the air. vote ors both sides of the recall battle are getting louder. but how many will turn out on election day isn't answer decides the race. hear from the voters, that's next. and from the storming of the state capitol through june 5, wisconsin's getting national attention. soy so how will the recall factor impact the presidential election? most life insurance companies look at you and just see a policy. at aviva, we do things differently. we're bringing humanity back to life insurance. that's why only aviva rewards you with savings for getting a check-up. it's our wellness for life program,

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>> greta: this recall race is a scorcher. voters on both sides say they are passionate. >> reporter: is there an intensity or interest in this recall fight? waned, stayed the same or grown since it's been going on for more a year? >> i have been more interested in the past couple of months, with everything going on. >> i would say that the intensity has been the same. from the date that all the demonstrations were here and the time that he was elected. >> the people who cared about it before still care about. >> it no, i don't think there is fatigue. i think for people who really

care about this, there will be a good turnout. >> the manifestation of the passion has been waned. they are not protesting. but i expect the turnout to be huge -- record setting. >> i follow politics very closely. so i feel the same way i have for past year. but it could be that people are tired and summer's coming and school's out and vacations are starts, there may be apathy. >> greta: griff jenkins is here, joining us. nice to see you. one of the best ways to find out how excited voters are -- are signs all over? are people talking about it? is this the discussion as we move to june 5? >> reporter: hey, gret a. we don't see the protests, obviously and the thousands gathering in madison. but there is no lack of enthusiasm. we have been here all week and we have drich from chippewa falls to madison and to

milwaukee. it is hard to gauge who is more passionate, whether it's the business owner or the folks here that are government workers, they have skin in the game. this election is going to impact them, one way or the other and they feel very strongly. one note is that a lot of folks supporting barrett may be more anti-walker. they stillstill don't like walker. they for going to turn out i think you are going to see a large manifestation of all the passions we have seen. i don't know whether we will have the outside groups here coming to protest. but it's real and the folks feel just as strong. you hear apinger on the talk radio shows and everywhere you go. i was getting a cup of coffee this morning and a guy wouldn't let me get out of the gas station, he was so passionate. >> greta: the timing of this, june 5. this is not a good time for the democratic candidate because the

university of wisconsin is 40,000 students and a lot of them are democrats, probably the greater majority. and they are the ones with the passion and do a lot of the groundwork for the democratic party. they are all gone. they have had graduation and summer school hasn't started up. it would have been better for the democrats had the contest happened a month ago because this is a flat period with the student body in the university system. >> that's probably true. we are looking into the youth vote. but the folk who is are affected directly are the ones whose jobs have been cut back, or folks that believe that their lives are better because of walker and they are going to vote. i will tell you, the only thing that the folks could be as passionate about this week was donald driver winning "dancing with the stars." >> greta: we are very proud of that. so is our executive producer. she is particularly preez pleased. griff, thank you. coming up, milwaukee mayor tom barrett says he's not a rock

star, but he is rock solid. how does he plan to beat governor scott walker in the very tight recall race? that's next. and early voting in wisconsin reaches near presidential levels. so who do the polls show in the lead right now isn't latest developments in the recall vote, developments in the recall vote, coming those surprising little things she does still make you te notice. there are a million reasons why. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood essure. do not dnk alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help

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>> from america's news headquarters, i'm marianne rafferty. a major break in a decades-old missing person case. a new jersey man has confessed to killing 6-year-old etan packs luring him with the promise of a soda and took him into the basement and strangled him. he was walking to the school bus stop when he vanished. a hurricane warning for mexico churns into a major storm. the national hurricane center

saying it's a category 3 storm with sustained winds of 115 miles per hour. mexican authorities are canceling school in low-lying communities and preparing emergency shelters as it barrels towards an area of beach resorts and small villages. for the latest headlines, go to foxnews.com. >> greta: the wisconsin recall election is a rematch. tom bar on the, taking on governor scott walker. walker defeated barrett by five percentage points in the governor's race. griff jenkins spoke with mayor barrett. >> reporter: it looks like you may be mind in the polls and fund-raising. what is your strategy to turn this around? >> this is a very unusual election and i don't think there is in modeling and i don't think anybody know who is will vote. but we have seen a tight race. we continuing will be tight. there is no question that if this comes down to who can raise

more out-of-state dollars, scott walker will win. he has raised tens of millions of dollars from out of -- out-of-straight dollars. he has become the rock star of the fire -- far right and is the tea party favorite and that has allowed him to bring in tens of millions of dollars. i am not the rock star of the far right or of the far left, i am going to be rock solid and focused on hathis states needs, which is a governor who works to create jobs. >> governor walker seems to be making the claim, if you have turned on the television or radio, that he has an advantage with the jobs numbers. how do you see it? >> again, what you can see, you have an embattled governor, an embattled governor, who is now in a recall, where nearly a million people signed signatures that wanted him removed from office. have you long trusted, well-accepted national reports dealing with joblessness that say over and over again that

under his leadership, wisconsin lost more jobs than any other state in the country in 2011. those are bureau and labor statistics numbers. those are not numbers that tom barrett cooked up or the numbers that the state of wisconsin cooked up. those are the nonpartisan department of labor statistics. 20 days before an election, an embattled governor produces a new set of numbers. within four hours, he is running commercial, touting those numbers, knowing that the numbers cannot be verified until after the election. are you going to, as a journalist, accept them? >> reporter: we want to hear what you have to say. >> i question the numbers. obviously, i question the numbers because there would be an unprecedented deviation from the bureau of labor statistic numbers t. would be unprecedented to have the swing, the 57,000-job swing that he claims exists. >> greta: everyone knows that the race is contentious, but

it's also close. we have patrick marl fret milwaukee journal sentinel with us. >> thanks for having me on. >> greta: always the key, like any other other race, turnout. right now, mayor barrett is a few points behind governor walker. how is he going to get the vote out? >> well, he has -- he says he has a plan to contact thousands of voters, has been doing that -- he's going to -- going to turn them out. there are union who is are doing a lot of voter contacts. one of the keys is getting the votes of people who do not vote in 2010, 9 thirty throb,000 peoo signed the recall. 200,000 of those did not vote in 2010. so their key is to find people who voted for obama and get them to the polls on june 5. >> greta: is there any indication they are getting help from the obama campaign? president obama stormed the state in 20z -- 2008.

i am curious if they are getting help from the national office? >> we have seen no indication that president obama is going to come here. he -- he did recently have his campaign send out -- fund-raising solicitations nationwide. they say they are getting institutional help. there are some democrats in wisconsin who are frustrated they haven't gotten more help from the dnc. >> greta: would it be helpful if president obama came for mayor barrett? or not? or president clinton? he has always been a successful campaigner. >> i think both of those would be big successes. i think the democrats would welcome them with open arms and that would drive turnout. the question for president obam awould it be helpful for him? i think that's at least a close question. i think that's part of the reason he hasn't been here. >> greta: early voting has started. you can tell me about it and any

indications which way it's going? >> sure. early voting started on monday, it's a two-week voting period. it's hard to compare it to past elections because we have a two-week voting period. but turnout's been very high. some say at presidential level. we are only 3 or 4 days into that. we will have to see if that's sustained. we are seeing high turnout. it is hard to know if that's better for one side. the democrats tend to believe that the higher the turnout, the better for them, that if they can surpass the turnout in 2010, that they will be in very good shape. >> greta: well, it is a cliff hanger. all eyes are on it. patrick, thank you very much. all kisay is that this is going to be a fascinating race on the fifth. thank you. >> thanks for having me on. >> greta: straight ahead, millions of dollars from all over the country, pouring into the wisconsin recall campaign. so why do national groups care

so much about one state, the state of wisconsin? why should you care about this? dick morris is here next. dick morris is here next. [ male announcer ] knowing your customers is important to any successful business. which is why at wells fargo, we work with you to get to know the unique aspects of your business. we can recommend financial solutions that can work for you that have helped millions of business owners save time, reduce expenses, and maxize cash flow. as the number o small business lender f nine years running... we're with you when you need us. so you can be there for your customers. wells fargo. together we'll go far. dude you don't understand, this is my dad's car.

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>> the eyes of the nation are on wisconsin. the recall election is not justbi a big deal in the badger state, it will pack a punch

across the country. how will it fuel voters sentiment in the presidential election? dick morris is here, author of the book "scrutinized." >> good to be here and in your native land. >> greta: always fun for me to watch what goes on this that state. before we get to the big picture, i am curious in terps of the money, there is always outside money. but i am curious, is the outside money flowing into the democratic and the republican candidate profoundly bigger or less than usual in races like this? >> much, mip much, much bigger. this is armageddon and both sides understand t. i think that the race is important on four levels, greta, if you bear with me. first is, obviously, i think it is a precursor of the national election. wisconsin is a democratic state that went republican in 2010. obama care carried it in 2008.

if walker wins, i think that will send a big signal to the rest of the country that obama is in trouble f. walker loses, it will energize the democrats and send a signal that they can win. like in the old days, maine voted before the rest of the country and was the bellwether. but there are three other levels. i think this will determine the fate of education reform throughout the country. if walker survives recall, you will see limits on teacher tenure, merit pay for teachers and much more flexibility from union control in all of the 49 other states. and if he loses, they will drop dead. i think the third thing is that it will free state and local government from control by the unions. but if they lose and walker is recalled, a big boost for the state and local workers unions. and it has a direct financial impact because part of the walker reforms said that workers can choose on their own whether to pay union dice or -- dues or

not, rather than have them automatically deducted and if that catches on, that will really limit the power of the unions to bolster the democratic party. right now, a majority of the workers of the unionized workers in america are public employees, 40% of state local workers belong to unions. only 7% in the private sector belongs. so this is like the air traffic controller strike, where reagan faced down the private-sector unions. it is an absolutely crucial race for both sides. >> greta: you say that if he wins by -- if governor walker wins, that's a precursor for what will happen with the wisconsin come november. i guess i am suspicious that if he wins by 2 points, that it will energize the democrats and be within reach and they will really crank it up and work really hard between june 5 and the election. i think in order for him to tell the democrats that wisconsin's

going to go do a republican and hold the democrats at home, he has to win by a sizable margin. >> any victory's important because, you know, the one vote determines how the state's electoral college votes go. but if you made a los angeles of swing states and say you started with the most republican of them, which would probably be florida. then you went through ohio and then you went to the most democrat of the swing states, probably virginia... wisconsin would be next t. wouldn't even be on that list. so if wisconsin goes democrat in this pivotal contest -- goes republican in this pivotal contest, even by a point or two, it really ogres bad stuff for obama and you combine it with the dismal performance he had in the arkansas and the kentucky primaries with over 40% of the democratic voters in those state, voted for uncommitted or

a nonentity, rather than their president. >> greta: this being so penitentiary to the democratic party and president obama won in 2008 by 12-14 points, why hasn't he called up president obama and said, come on, help me? do politicking with me? >> the mayor of milwaukee doesn't want obama's negatives and obama doesn't want it because he doesn't want the loss to be attributable to him and it would be if he came in and campaigned. but everybody knows this is front and center -- not just about the presidential election. when you look at the fact that state and local governments spend huge amounts of their budget, probably a third of it on education and that that is tightly controlled by the unions, and this would free that control, this is absolutely pivotal. we have tried everything in education reform, dumping in more money, higher starns, all kinds of stuff.

the only thing that really works is freeing them of union control and giving people a choice of where to send their children. that's what is at stake right now. >> greta: dick, thank you. >> thank you, greta. >> greta: up next, pulling out the big guns. a-listers heading to wisconsin it's very important to understand how math and science kind of makes the world work. in high school, i had a physics teacher by the name of mr. davies. he made physics more than theoretical, he made it real for me. we built a guitar, we did thingwith electronics and mother boards. that's where the interest in engineering came from. so now, as an engineer, i have a career that speaks to that passion. thank you, mr. davies.

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