favorable the reaction. if you turn it down, you don't like t. the red line are the republicans and the green line are the democrats in the group. before we get to the politicians, we are joined by a truly great american. sean hannity. [applause] >> this is strange. he's in charge. this is the first time i-- this is so dangerous. >> we are going to give our case for mitt romney. i'm willing to go first. you use your dials and go to 50. i am trying to win as many of you over and sean will. but we have only one minute each to do it. 3 there is so much division and partisanship in washington that if we don't change now, the next four years could be even worse than the last four. you know the unemployment, we know the deficit. we know the debt. it's getting worse. if you believe in accountability, we have to vote

for it. if we believe in integrity, we have to stand up for it. a lot of people who voted for barack obama in 2008 because they wanted change. they voted for the right reasons. did you really get the change that you were expecting? we don't need this division. we need someone who is a problem solver. barack obama is a great communicator, but he has had 3 1/2 years. and at a certain point you have to say, that's long enough. there is no such thing as perfection in american politics. but mitt romney has the record, job creation as governor. he's done what needs to be done. let's give him a chance in 2012. everyone go back to 50, please. >> sean: i get to make the case? >> yes. >> sean: if i was governor mitt romney, this is a case i would make to the american people. are you and your friends and your family and your neighbors and your grandmothers and your

grandfathers -- are you better off than you were four years ago? is america better off than it was $5 trillion in debt ago? because that's what president barack obama has given us. this is going to be a comparison election. barack obama promised to cut the deficit in half. he's given us $5 trillion in debt, the largest deficits, the greatest amount of debt of any president in u.s. history. the president believes in more government. mitt romney believes in less government, he wants to have less regulation. mitt romney wants to appeal obamacare. mitt romney believes in the individual. the question is, which direction is the right direction for our future? do you believe the government is the answer to our problems? i would argue, vote for president obama. if you believe in the power of the individual to get up in the morning and take care of themselves and take care of their families and work hard and play by the rules and pay their taxes and have limited government, i believe that this choice could not be more clear.

>> raise your han if you voted for barack obama in 2008. >> >> sean: wow. >> tell me your reaction to the two of us. did either of you make the case. >> i think that both of you made the case. i am not going to vote for barack obama in the next election because i am not happy with the way things are going right now. and i think somebody like romney who, knows about business and has experience in government. he was a governor. >> did you vote for barack obama? >> i did. i am going to go with romney this time around. what i would like to see from romney is more specific issues. get away from the tax and spend, the typical boilerplate arguments that are made every four years. break out of the box, do something dynamic. don't kiss babies, be more dynamic. >> sean: what would you want? i think this is really important. he says he will repeal

obamacare. i think that's important. he says he's going to lower taxes. he says he is going to do very specific things. what else would you want him to do? >> specific exit strat yee for all wars. i think that's part of -- >> do you agree with that? yes or no? >> yes! >> the table's set, right? >> did you vote for obama in 2008? >> yes, i did. >> do you plan to vote for him in 2012. >> yes, i will. >> did either of us say anything that would remotely keck to you? >> it -- yes. you mentioned how we should worry about the taxes-- the change. don't go combo further debt. but i just remember a time when we had bill clinton when he came special it was a similar situation -- not the exact same. but it was similar. we gave him four years, people were a little bit happy and four more years, everything was good. then we had bush-- can i -- bill clinton after

2 years changed. and he said the error of -- era of big government's over. the end of welfare as we know it. the one thing that saddens me about this president is i think he's radical in his beliefs and he has shown no willingness to change. >> you don't take polls. that's what you said about george bush. >> you are right. >> obama does the same thing, he doeses what he thinks is right and he doesn't take a poll-- here's my question. this is serious. $5 trillion -- >> wait a minute. >> sean: let me give you a quote. barack obama, july of 2008, before the election in 2008 actually said that george bush was unpatriotic and irresponsible taking a credit card to the bank of china in the name of our kids and grandkids and george bush had given us $4 trillion in new debt in 8 years. obama's given us $5 trillion in 3 1/2. >> nobody complained too much

when george bush-- i did. >> not really. >> sean: of course, i did. i complained a lot. >> anyone who knew obama -- >> but it's not really true because the $4 trillion that george bush gave us was on top of spending the surplas that we had. so he actually spent more than obama-- new fiscal debt, it was more. >> my biggest prp problem with romney, i am not convinced that he is serious about cutting the deficit that we need. it is $16 trillion. you say the $5 trillion that barack obama added, and romney's budget and plans don't make me jump in excitement for cutting spending. it seems like it's similar to the scatus quo. i want to be persuaded that he will cut. >> last comment. >> sean: this is really hard. my biggest complaint now beyond i think the president has governed in a pretty ideological and radical way -- when republicans say that we have to

get ahold of entitlements, we get ads of paul ryan throwing grandma over the cliff. >> we have a raft. [applause] >> coming up, what is really going to happen to your health care if the supreme court repeals obamacare? next, marco rubio, paul ryan, rob portman. herman cain and you decide who ♪ [ male announcer ] aggressive styling. a more fuel-efficient turbocharged engine. and a completely redesigned interior. ♪ the 2012 c-class with over 2,000 refinements. it's amazing...inside and out. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services.

>> welcome back. i'm frank luntz. let's take a look at the three leading contenders for vice-president and how you rate them. first up, let's take a look at how our panel rated paul ryan, the congressman from wisconsin. >> i was working three jobs out of college, waiting tables to pay back my student loans, i did not think of myself as stuck in some condition like a victim. i saw myself on the road of opportunity, trying to realize my version of the american dream, pursuing happiness how i defined it for myself. [cheers and applause] >> before we get to a conversation about paul ryan. let's look at how they reacted to florida senator marco rubio. >> the economy's worse off, the debt is $5 trillion higher and in fact, this president's rhetoric is like anybody else in washington. all the things that made him different and special four years ago are gone and now all he does is run, dividing americans against each other, obviously, because he can't run on his

record. >> now let's take a look at how our panel reacted to horks higho senator rob portman. >> mr. president, we need a proposal taken up by the senate driven by good economics. instead, what we are getting this week is one that's driven by campaign rhetoric. >> who better to run down the best choices than the former presidential candidate, businessman extraordinaire and someone who i would call friend, herman cain. please welcome him. >> thank you. happy to be here [applause] >> so what does mitt romney need in a vice-president? what should be the attributes he's looking for? >> number 1, someone that complements his skills. number 2, someone who can also provide a sharpened main to the american people. thirdly, someone who has the depth of am or the experience that will help him be president of the united states of america.

it's a big job, as you know. so if it were me, i would look for someone to complement those skills that i naturally bring to the job. >> okay. so if it were you, which one would you choose -- to put ow the spot? >> of those three? >> yes. i would choose lieutenant colonel west ow out of florida. he wasn't one of the three. if it were me. >> you started with applause immediately. how come? >> he is one of the few guy who is gets it. a couple of weeks ago about the progressive caucus, 100% right. i was going to make a comment. paul ryan in that clip, i don't remember whether it was before or after, made a statement, the fight in the country right now is between modern liberalism and classic liberalism. the fight is not left to right. the scale is not left to right. it is anarchy versus totalitarianism. >> he's paying attention. but on the list, frank, of the three, i would pick representative paul ryan.

number 1 -- >> you agree or disagree? >> representative paul ryan, here's why because his budget guru skills. i mean, he understands the budget process. i think that mitt romney would be well to have someone like that because navigating the legislative process is going to be critical in that regard. secondly, he's bright, sharp and articulate. high has the energy to complement. so he would be a good complement. >> your reaction to paul ryan. >> the economic powerhouse. you have someone who can write budgets and run businesses. so to have the two of them, we would have a good solution for our country economically, our number-1 issue right now. >> i want to hear from obama people. >> i think paul ryan will destroy the humanity of the united states as we know it. >> i do, too. >> i think that paul ryan would do the same. >> how? [overlapping dialogue] >> he is hurting a lot of

people, i believe. >> he wants to cut everything [overlapping dialogue] >> $4 trillion in debt. we are broke. [overlapping dialogue] >> you know something, the difference between the democrats and the republicans is something like 4% of spending. it is ridiculous. it is such a big -- there is no difference. >> i want to ask you a question. is there a significant difference between republicans and democrats? is it appropriate to use very strong language? >> it is not appropriate in this case, with all due respect. here's why. most of the proposals by the democrats -- they want to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic. here's the narrative that we need in this country, not more reform. we need to restructure the programs. if we do not restructure -- medicare, medicaid and social security -- restructure. we have to change the way it's administered so people will take

more ownership in the benefits that they get. if we don't restructure them, this nation is financially doomed. >> we are not -- i object very strongly to your analogy. we are not on the titanic at all! people in france -- [overlapping dialogue] >> one at a time. michael? >> we are a sovereign country, we have the disaster he's talking about because we can produce things and we have resources. >> in my age group of mid-20s, we have an overwhelming feeling in conservative and liberal friends feel like we will not have social security. we will have things that were promised to us. the answer is not to go along in the same path that we have been going on for the past 30 years or 40 years or 50 years. we have to restructure what's happening to allow people to

have the kind of security that you had when you were my age. it is not fair to hear you say that we don't deserve that. [overlapping dialogue] >> i want to give herman cain the last word. this is the american people. >> this is the american people. this is exactly representative of the american people. it boils down to this. those that view themselves as democrats make emotional decisions. people who view themselves as conservatives and republicans, they make decisions based upon facts. with all due respect, when you made your point, when you made your point, you made an emotional point. but you gave no facts -- allow me to finish -- this gentleman -- [overlapping dialogue] >> we have to get out of this. when using facts, it's a fact that she made an observation about not having it. but the difference is emotional

arguments, versus factual arguments. that's the country. >> that has to be the last word. >> thank you, frank. >> coming up. the great political debate right here. who is running america? who is run ruining america? two congressional leaders square off. they will tell us if washington is too darn partisan. is too darn partisan. stick around, the best is [ male announcer ] the inspiring story of how a shipping giant can befriend a forest may seem like the stuff of fairy tales. but if you take away the faces on the trees... take away the pixie dust. take away the singing animals, and the storybook narrator... [ man ] you're left with more electric trucks. more recycled shipping materials... and a growing number of lower emissions planes... which still makes for a pretty enchanted tale. ♪ la la la [ man ] whoops, forgot one... [ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. fedex. solutions that matter.

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>> welcome back. i'm frank luntz. congress holds a 9% job approval rating. muammar al-qaddafi had a 14% job approval rating, and that's among people wokilled him. joining us is evan bayh, former governor of indiana who was a democratic senator in washington 12 years. welcome the senator [applause] >> i want to you grab -- nonand make a pitch to them why washington isn't broken. >> unfortunately, i think that washington is broken. i saw some of the responses to the previous debates and there are some differences of opinion in the room. but my guess is that if we sat

down and if tried to work out solutions to some of the problems that are facing america among this group, we could probably get that done. but congress is so partisan and so ideological, they are unable to make the commonsense compromise to get the economy moving and the debt down and the cost of health care down. it is broken in a time when we can't afford that. so regrettably, i think it will take all of us, rising up and taking the system back to make the progress that america needs. >> congress is broken? >> unfortunately. >> is the obama administration broken? >> well, the obama administration isn't perfect. but i think the president's doing his best. >> congress isn't? >> no, they are doing their best. but they are trapped in a system of 535 members of congress who have to cobble together a principled compromise. the president can speak for himself. the real problem we have is that too many members of congress and it represents some of us, they think of themselves as liberals or conservatives, democrats or

republicans, rather than americans first. you can look at the group of leaders here, the statesmen in our country, they believed passionately. but at the end of the day, they were willing to take some progress, rather than none. now, too many people take an all-or-nothing approach and too often, you end up with nothing. >> do you agree? >> yes! >> we seemed to be locked in a two-party dictatorship. what are your thoughts on that? >> we have two parties. and too often they are polarized and unable to find common ground. i think we need to hold both parties accountable and say, look, we understand you are a part of a party. that's fwien. you have string principles and underpinnings. but at the end of the day, have you to put your country ahead of your party and ideology. >> we have been doing that for four years now. all americans have said that. the division in congress, nothing gets done. as a matter of fact, they get

more divided. we are at a point where there is nothing taking place. >> getting along seems to be the more conservative people, they are playing chicken with the more progressive -- conservatives have to blink. they have to give in. that's compromising. enough already. >> you can't blame the conservatives. prior to 2010, we had liberals in the office. at the midtemples, we switched it. >> historically, we have had two parties, the same system over 200 years, what has changed to make politics so divided that they can't seem to find a compromise? it seems that way. >> this gentleman, steve is correct. we have had divisions in the past. but the difference in the past is, look, our country wouldn't exist-- the united states of america itself was a compromise between big states and small state, northern states and southern states, et cetera. they had to come together and

said being one country is more important than our differences. we don't have that. and you ask why. in the house of representatives, we have had the jiry mannedder, out of 435 members of the house, no more than 80 districts are very competitive. the real races are in the primaries. so if you are a democrat and your real race is in the primary, you move left. in the republican party, you move to the right. so there are not nearly as many people in the middle to make fashioned compromises. in the senate, it's the role of big money and the interest groups that can contribute millions of dollars and number 2, the caucus system, where to my surprise when i arrive in the senate, i was informed you are a part of the team. we expect you to be loyal to the team. don't be independent. don't vote for yourself, if do you that, we will do things to punish you for that. that system needs to change. >> did harry reid punish you? >> i was a problem child and

there were practical consequences. sometimes you don't get on the committee or your bills don't get brought up for a vote. there are consequences and so there is a constant tension. have you to do what you think is right. that's what you are paid to do. but you can't become irrelevant and ineffective. so have you to strike a balance. >> in my opinion, the problem is the leadership. it's poor, it's lacking. obama has this -- every speech he gives, it's us versus them mentality. democrats versus the republicans. it's a gang warfare that he is fostering. he's made it worse, honest to god. >> may i ask you a question, sir? >> of course. >> the democrat and it is republican, everybody in congress believes in democracy, correct. >> as far as i know, they do. yes. [chuckles] >> why is it when the nation's speaking up very loudly over major affairs and overwhelmingly so, by large proportions that you are basically ignoring and shoving stuff down our throat? >> remember, i have been retired

for a year and-a-half. [laughter] >> i am not there anymore. >> i figured you might have an answer to this question. >> i got fed up with it. >> the senator stopped shoving a year and-a-half ago. >> look when i was governor of my state for 8 years, i remember the democratic party, my state senate was republican. the house went back and forth. i realized quickly fwe were going to get anything done, we have to work together. sometimes we couldn't agree. sometimes we had knock-down, grag-out fights. but we realized we had been hired by the same people to solve their problems in practical terms. that's not taking place in washington very much. >> i am going to say something as a personal prerogative. i know this mean man now 15 years. people call him governor, senator, i call him a statesman. this is someone who is different. and i hope you see that. >> later in the program, see the two best attack ads of the campaign and what the supreme

court decision could mean to your health care. coming up next, deficit, debt, out-of-control spending. are you going to pay more taxes? two leading members of congress debate your future. stay tuned. [ tires squeal, engine revs ] ♪ ♪ ♪

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miles per hour. residents getting ready for what could be 10 inches of rain over the weekend. forecasters say the storm will continue to weaken and move over land late tonight or early saturday. now back to fox news. back to "luntz special," taking the poll of the country. >> welcome back. we hear the words every day. budgets, deficit, debt. but it doesn't seem like anyone is solving anything in washington. can we come together enough to get a budget? with us now are republican congresswoman marcia blackburn and elliot engle from new york. please, welcome them [applause] congressman, i am going to start with you. the stuff that the democrats have said about the republican budget are pretty harsh. is it really that bad? >> well, i think it's bad -- look, we are not balancing our budget. we need to do that.

i think both parties understand that. the question for me is one of fairness. who should sacrifice? i think all americans need to sacrifice. and the republican budget, i believe makes the working-class, the middle-class, poor people sack dispies leaving the people who are doing well, unscathed. i am glad people are doing well. we want to enact policy sose they do well. but i think that everyone needs to pay their fair share. it's about fairness and equity. >> we are going on raise taxes on people who make over $250,000 a year? >> we have differences. i happen to think that $250 might be low, quite frankly. but i -- because i'm from new york. in new york, things are very expensive. let pee tell you this, but i think if we are really honest and we need to get the debt ended and we need to start balancing our budget, we have to have a combination of both. we have to cut spending, no doubt. but we have to raise taxes on those who can't afford to pay.

i don't want to raise taxes on working-class people who can't afford to pay. so it's a balance. it's common sense, the american people get it. for some reason, congress doesn't. >> congresswoman, it looks like the republicans just want to throw a monkey wrench in everything that the democrats offer? you have become the party of no? prove to them that you are the party of yes when it comes to the budget? >> well, i think more importantly than that, we are the party of k-n-o-w. know. we want people to know what is in this legislation. you know, when you pass bills like the health care bill, where have you to pass it to read it to find out what's in it -- when you rush things forward and you haven't taken the time to vet it, that's a problem. the american people deserve better than that. they expect better than that. and i am glad that people from both parties are standing up and demanding better than that. i think that what we have to do is keep the focus on being fair.

being fair to the next generation, to our children and our grandchildren so that we don't leave a huge, enormous burden for them that is an unsolvable problem. let's be the party of k-n-o-w. let's have the american people be the people of knowing. >> you are going to cast your vote for the first time for president -- what are you, 19? >> yes. >> which side of this debate are you on? >> myself and a lot of my friends, we are scared for the future. social security, we don't know if we are going to get it. the interest payments on our debt, skyrocketing. this is a scary situation. a lot of people in this room and in congress are older -- no offense -- you know, what's going to happen, the decisions that you are making are going to affect me and my friends. it's a scary situation. we need to cut spending, right now. >> john, how old are you? >> 20 years old. >> this is your first presidential vote.

>> i agree with the congresswoman. we need to cut spending and reform the tax code in a way that gets rid of the loopholes so that companies like g.e. pay a fair rate, bring the rate down so we pay more and we get more money into the treasury. >> you are from g.e., you want to defend g.e.? >> yeah. i think it should be a flat rate and we haven't are the problem of who pays and what doesn't t. should be across the country in general. everyone should have a flat tax. >> congressman, is there a chance to bring this group together? in washington? can you achieve some sort of bipartisan compromise? >> i think that everything everyone has said, we agree with. we have to cut spending. have you to balance the budget. you can't just cut spending -- >> do you agree -- >> we don't have a budget. >> but i want to actual, when bill clinton left office, the last democrat before obama, we had record surplus -- in 8 years of george bush, with a

republican congress and a republican president, six of the eight years, the republicans did nothing to cut the deficit. the deficits went higher and higher and higher -- [overlapping dialogue] >> no, no. so this is something -- but, you know what? we fought two wars on a credit card that we were not paid for. okay. i think what i am trying to say is i think there is plenty of blame to go around. we need to stop the first quarter pointing and sit down and get to work. the american people want us to talk and meet in the middle and do things for the american people. >> congresswoman, is there any tax that you would support increasing? any tax? >> government already takes too much. it has an insatiable appetite for the american people's money. what they are going to do is continue to spend. the bureaucracy needs to be required to get in here and cut their spending. every year, i offer three bills for across-the-board spending

cuts. what we need to do is make certain that the government is accountable. we need to make certain that we are re-ducing what the federal government spends. and we need to get government off your back, out of your pocketbook and make certain that individuals keep more of what they earn -- and less of it goes to washington, d.c. >> i don't want to touch social security, like the republicans want to cut social security. i want to make sure that people have their social security. i want to make sure that people have their medicare -- >> i have a bill that would protect social security system. >> i have a dream that some day we can bring these two members of congress together. please -- [applause] >> thank you, both. coming up, we have the two best political ads of the season and the supreme court, if they wipe out obamacare, what does that mean to you? mean to you? stay

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>> with only months to go before the next election, hundreds of millions of dollars are being poured into television ads. which ones work and which ones backtire? we have been testing them with our group. let's take a look at the two most powerful ads. i want to begin with the ad that whichevers mitt romney, one of the most powerful and impactful. let's take a look. >> do i believe the supreme court should overturn row v. wade? yes. >> planned parenthood, going to get rid of that. of course i support the 11th amendment. >> the 11th amendment would let employers opt out of health coverage if they have a moral objection. >> would you object to life at conception. >> absolutely. >> as to what do todo for the housing industry, specifically, don't try to stop the foreclosure process. let it run its course and hit the bottom. yeah, that's exactly what i said. let detroit go brupt.

>> it is my view that the withdrawal of all of our troops from iraq is unfortunate. it is more than -- [inaudible]. >> one ad that tests even higher, taking on barack obama for special interests. let's take a look. >> we will not take a dime from washington lobbyists or special interest pacs. they will not fund my party, they will not run our white house. we are going it change how washington works. >> it sure seems at odds with the promise to put washington on the side of the little guy, not the lobbyist. >> a long list of names of people working on obama's transition team who have accepted jobs in his white house. >> i am in this race to tell the lobbyists in washington that their days are over. they will not wor work in my white house. >> the president has a lobbying firm that works for general motors and fannie and freddie. >> which is more impactful? which is more persuasive?

who would say it's the anti-obama and the anti-romney ad? >> just scared the hell out of me. just those are his words. it is not like someone said, what he said. this is his words. footage. just some of the things he said -- overturn row v. wade -- it's just, you know, incredible. scary. >> why the anti-romney ad? >> he is so far to the right that i can't believe he believes what he is saying. >> there are so many topics in that one, compare to the obama one, which was just about lobbyist, the mitt romney had so many topics, i was like, really, okay. so many things. >> one hand, obama just lying. on the other hand, it's romney, whether you agree or disagree with what he was saying, but those were his words. obama was shown to be a hypocrite. >> the obama ad made me want to vote for him. >> the one against obama is

geared for americans. the one against romney makes it look like americans are so leftist. it made me want to vote for him. it's awesome. >> is this good on american politics? does this make you feel proud to be in a democratic system? these ads? >> yeah, absolutely. >> you don't find them too negittative. >> negativity sells. >> that doesn't mean it's good for the country. >> absolutely not. but who can stop it? >> you think this is good for the country? >> there are so many things to be disappointed in, to start with ads, they are sound bites made by professionals, who are professional at convincing you what to believe. you can watch ads all day and bounce back. i would rather hear a speech in their own words, not cut out. >> i think it's more disappointing that we as a country buy into the negative ads. because they do work.

we do buy into them and we hear the negative things and we go with that. [overlapping dialogue] >> the negative ads don't give context. the mitt romney sentence -- something else. sentence. they didn't give him a chance to explain himself. it makes him look bad when he was saying the right thing. >> the signature legislation of president obama's presidency, hanging on by a thread. the supreme court is about to make a major ruling on health care reform. care reform. we will hear from both sides. [ male announcer ] we imagined a vehicle that could adapt to changing road conditions. one that continually monitors and corrects for wheel slip. we imagined a vehicle that can increase emergency braking power when you need it most. and e imagined it looking like nothing else on the road today. then...we built it. the 2012 glk. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer

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>> the fate of president obama's health care legislation lies in the supreme court and that could upend this race for the white house. what does thist mean for president obama and governor romney? more importantly, what does it mean toe to you? joining me are joe crowley and top attorney, peter johnson jr. congressman, you are the top fund-raiser for the democratic campaign committee, so this is a big issue. >> i knew you would get that in there. >> the supreme court's making a decision momentarily, what should they do? turn your dial to 50. the more you agree, the higher you go.

congressman? >> frank, i think that the supreme court should rule that this law is constitutional. this is the first president in 100 years to actually accomplish something they have all tried to do and failed. that has changed the direction of health care in this country, something, if it was left to its own device, would bankrupt the country. this is going to provide for the first time, the children who had preexisting conditions can now not be denied insurances when they have been deny in the past. it now says that if you are up to 26 years of ang, you can stay on your parents' insurance, given your moms and dads a pees peace of mind. they think they are invincible. they are not. when they have accidents, the brunt of the cost is the american taxpayer taws because we have to pay for that. i think this is a good bill. the more the american people understand it, the more they like it and they want to see it permanent in law. >> how will it be paid for?

>> one, tell reduce the cost of health care delivery -- it's still early t. hasn't been implemented itch the good stuff is right now and the bad stuff's coming later [overlapping dialogue] >> someone like yourself, if you have a preexisting condition, you will not be denied it coverage because of your preexisting condition i. hold it -- hold on one second. i know this is controversial. peter, everybody go back to 50, please. >> a lot of smart questions. we will come back to that. but what we find out, the more we know, the more we don't like obamacare. half a trillion dollars in new taxes over 10 years. half a trillion dollars in cuts in medicare, over the next 10 years. half a trillion dollars in new deficits in the next 10 years. that's the price of obamacare. it's also the price of our liberty in this country. if the listen to the supreme court argument, the supreme court justices said, what's go

on? where's the end of this in terms of big government? what does the government tell us what to do next? should we buy a cell phone? should we eat broccoli? which shwe do everything that the government tells us? where does liberty begin? where does the commerce clause end? what's the future of america if we have to spend so much, get so little in return and give away so many of our precious freedoms. that's what it is about. >> who has the better argument? congressman? raise your hands. who says the lawyer, raise your hands? >> i want to go second next time. >> what's the issue? what's the challenge? >> the issue is the constitutionality t. may be a great law. i disagree. but if you agree, you still need it to be a constitutional law to pass. do you think it's going to pass? >> the congress has the ability and the right to regulate commerce in this country. and economic decisions that are made. not purchasing health care is an

economic decision, just as much as purchasing health care is. each and every person, i have news for you, we are all going to grow old. at some point, we will all need health care. it is not an oping. it's a fact. we have to have it. if you say you don't want to have it, it puts the responsibility on the rest of the taxpayers who pay for it right now. >> they are trying to say, listen, we regulate everything. when they asked about this at the supreme court, the government couldn't give a decision or an answer about where it ends. no end. >> what's social security unconstitutional? that's the premise. was medicare unconstitutional. >> yes! >> was the voting right unconstitutional? some would suggest it was. i am making the point that there are thicks in place that the supreme court has ruled that the lower court said were unconstitutional that the supreme court said met the standard. >> the supreme court has never said you can regulate inactivity. that's what this law does, regulates inactivity.

>> this will give an opportunity for people to afford their own insurance so they can go into a primary care physician, which costs 10 times less on average -- [overlapping dialogue] e. one at a time. >> hard figures, hard numbers. >> 3 years out. what are we going to appreciate in terms of savings? hard numbers. i don't want to hear about babies. i want to hear numbers. >> that's the last question. >> what i can say to you is this, when this bill is fully implemented that 9,000 businesses in my district in bronx and queens will be able to afford to have health care for their constituents. it means 160,000 people in my district today who, cannot afford health insurance can buy it. that's hathis means -- don't interrupt [overlapping dialogue] >> i don't think so.

i don't think so. >> we have to go. we have to go. and i want to thank you all. i want to remind you all that civility and decency is what we want from our politicians in washington and from the voters back home. i want to thank you. give yourself a hand. have a great weekend. thank you. >> hot new controversy over president obama's health care law is the leading senate democrat trying to intimidate the supreme court? what does senator patrick leahy mean when he lectures the justices to, quote, do the right thing. it's heating up again in wisconsin. not the weather. governor scott walker goes head to head with recall opponent tom barrett. a cloak-and-dagger mystery in the nation's capitol. a prominent skift discovers his wife brutally beaten. then he discovers he is the prime suspect. all of that in just minutes. first, he's out, the man behind the