watch. >> you buying gasoline this weekend? there is a lot you think you know that isn't so. >> where do we get most of oil from? >> i think arabian countries, assault and battery. >> india. >> afghanistan? >> john: is america going to run out of gasoline? >> yes. >> why does the pricing up and down. are the oil speculators manipulating it. >> they want to make money. >> john: bill o'reilly agrees. >> i go to gulf, shell, i go to getty, it the same price. >> john: we made a bet about that. >> i won a thousand dollars on that. >> john: this woman knows more about how to lower the price of

gas but so many americans believe in nonsense. >> electric cars better for the environment? >> better for the environment. >> john: putting ethanol in our cars for america? >> yes. >> cheaper energy, lowers gas prices. >> john: there lots of myths about gasoline. that is our show tonight. >> and now, john stossel. [ cheers and applause ] >> john: talking at people at gas stations, i learned that oil companies are evil. their profits are excessive. but electric cars are good for the world. we're going to run out of oil in the year 2015. >> in 2015. what are we going to do then? >> we're going to skateboard, bike ride. >> john: that green paradise

does appeal to people. as for becoming independent dependent. who could object to that. jerry does so does the author of "power hungry." robert bryce. everybody loves energy independence. >> why not been independence and ipod independence. this is most hack need phrase in american politics. the reality is we live in an integrated global economy. whether we talk about gasoline, ipods, fresh flowers, tennis rackets, those markets are global. why would we want to be independent of the world's biggest most important transparent market? it makes no sense at all. >> john: people say we don't need tennis rackets and ice cream.

we need gasoline. >> which evil countries are we talking about? canada? they are biggest provider of crude, is what wrong with canada, what is wrong with mexico? they have been one of our leading suppliers. >> even if it all came from a hole in ground from alaska because of it, if the saudi arabians experience a terrorist attack and lost supply or war with iran, the price of crude would be just as high as the suadz did i crude or yemen crude because it's a global market. it's like a frost in florida that devastates the crop, citrus in california is going to be more expensive too. >> john: what about the little girl's claim. she said 2015, that is sort of silly, but people say we are going to run out. you suck the stuff out of ground and i've heard about predictions

for a long time. >> 75% of our energy, we're simply running out. >> john: to believe we're running out. >> to believe we're running out of crude oil, there will be no response to high price. i find that fairly hard to believe. that is why we aren't going to run out. >> john: president car ster no dumb dum (m). >> the reality the more oil we find the more oil we find. last 20 years, in 1990, crude oil voifs were about 34 billion barrels. by 2010, crude reserves were around 31 billion barrels. we can produce those. over the 20-year period, the u.s. produced over 50 billion barrels of oil. >> john: what happened? >> the more oil we find the more oil we find because as jerry

said it's technological innovation. the combination of horizontal dealing and track turg and but this is enormous amount of natural gas. four years it was selling for ten dollars. this is a remarkable windfall for the u.s. economy. the hard reality the oil and gas sector has out innovated in solar and wind industries. >> john: they are spending their own money. >> eighth big incentive. >> john: the oil companies are making disgusting profits? >> it turns out the average u.s. manufacturer about 8 cents on every dollar's worth of earning. oil and gas companies don't do that well but they do post big

numbers. >> john: nine billion, shell, 7 billion. >> relative to what? they are huge xeajs because they sell a lot of product and invest a lot. relative to the size of the business they are not profitable industries to be in. >> john: where does our gasoline come from? >> where do we get it? >> out of the country. >> from the middle east. >> india. >> i'm not really sure. probably afghanistan. >> saudi arabia, venezuela, canada. >> john: we was getting close, robert, canada? you pointed out we get a lot of oil from canada but we get most of it from america, right? >> u.s. oil production is increasing rapidly and so is production from brazil. so when it comes to the future a lot more is going to coming from

the western hemisphere and less and less from the middle east. >> john: why don't people know this? almost everybody i asked has no clue that dprioys the united states? >> because the policy world is obsessed with the middle east. we want to be energy independent. environmentalists want to scare us away from crude oil because it's coming from bad guys abroad. 55% of our crude oil most more than half comes from the united states. of the imports we get, 52% of them total, all i am portals are from canada and mexico. the persian gulf countries are responsible for only 10% of u.s. consumption. >> john: and people think it all comes from saudi arabia. >> because conversation is middle east.

>> john: that little girl talked about skateboards and bbh. we hear from adults that electric cars are better for environment and good for america. >> "new york times" reporter wrote that the electric car has long been recognized as the ideal solution because it's cleaner and quieter and much more economical and gasoline fueled cars. that is november 12th, 1911. we've been hearing about the future of the electric car for a century. the history of the electric car is a century of failure, tailgating failure. why do we use gasoline because gasoline has 80 times the energy dense it of the best batteries. why didn't electric cars catch on because batteries were lousy. today batteries are still lousy and they cost too much. that is why we use gasoline and why we use diesel fuel. it's incredibly easy to use

product. >> john: the other hype about the electric cars, it's better for the earth? >> if you think that coal is better for the earth, fine. that is where most of iosh electricity comes from coal fired power plants. it's hard to make an argument are less polluting out of the cars, go it's kind of a wash. >> john: even the environmentalists have come around, electric car is not so great. some day, next myth, politicians tell us if we use more ethanol in gasoline we will create.... >> a nation that is stronger, cleaner and more secure. [ applause ] >> john: stronger, cleaner and more secure. i'm for that. >> every word of that is incorrect. [ laughter ] >> it turns out it's not cleaner if you take the emissions, ethanol has more emissions of hydrocarbons, of non-methane

organic compounds and they are toxic. ethanol it's bad for the environment. it's not good for the environment. >> john: even al gore has come around on this. >> and virtually er organization has come around. even if it weren't the case, we don't have enough corn. >> john: finally, i'll talk to sarah palin famous for saying drill baby and drill. and people think it would make a huge difference, truth? >> i'm in favor of drilling. >> john: drilling might bring in another million barrels of oil? >> if if they are correct, they may be wrong. if the mean estimates, probably get 800,000 a day from anwr when that field is producing per day

and 200,000 off the coast of the united states which is currently off-limits. so it translates into 1% reduction in price. that is all well and good but 1% in world crude oil surprises not going to be noticeable by most american consumers. >> john: thank you jerry and robert. we just begin to debunk the myths. we'll see what sarah palin says. first, will bill o'reilly pay me the thousand bucks he owes me. >> how dollars on that, i want a thousand. >> i'll fight with bill when we return.

>>. [ applause ] >> john: did you buy gasoline this week d.u.i. get ripped off? how you would know?

one guy who is sure he is getting ripped off is bill o'reilly. on this she just out to lunch. he says the local gas station colludes to fix the price. america should put limits on oil speculation and america should put a fat tax that dares ship our oil overseas. i bet lots of americans agree with them. he has one of the most popular cable show anywhere but in this case he is wrong about all of it. i was trying to convince him. >> you get a lot of stuff right. three things you say oil speculators are bad and they drive the price up. >> right. >> we some should put some limits on it. >> correct. my solution to the speculation problem is require 50%. so if you buy. >> john: 50% down.

>> i have to buy a stockbroker for the stock, speculators only pay 5 percent or 10 percent, explain that to me. >> john: that is how it works. >> that shouldn't be out it works. >> get the crooks out and i don't mind speculators. >> john: why are they crooks. >> they are basically day trading. they don't want the oil. if they want to go to vegas, go. but we all need oil to live. i don't want a commodity my family needs to live to be the subject of speculators who are gambling like they would be a vegas. >> john: onions? this is one product said we're going to stop speculation, in 1958, ag department was so upset the price went up, speculative fist.

>> bill: i don't care about that. >> john: my show. it causes fluctuations in the price. they ban it. since then, the price has gone up more and down and onions went up more than oil. >> bill: in oil market, no, it's not. you have to get government approval to look for it, to ship it. is that not a free market. that is controlled by a government. you, stossel can't start the stossel oil company. remember your lemonade stand, this one you wouldn't be able to apply. >> john: let's move on. >> bill: you know i'm right. >> john: and to lower the price of oil by taxing companies that send it out of the country. >> bill: i don't expect it to lower the price of oil but i want economic justice. kind of like the communists with

the occupy wall street movement. who owns the land in united states? let's have everybody out there that, this land is your land, this land a s my land you probably wrote it. the land is our land. where does the oil from. outnumbered the land. therefore, we the people own the oil. okay? so then you have exxon mobil saying, we'll drill it for you bill because i can't drill it myself. i say okay guys, give me a fair cut when you find it, all right? sure, bill. they drill and there it goes, texas goad. great stuff. and then they load it on the tanker and send it to china. i don't want my oil going to china. when oil prices here are so high. >> john: you want to punish

american companies that are good at refining? >> bill: i still got to pay the $3.50 a gallon here. i want you to be deported, all right? no, but my oil is your oil and i don't want it shipped over to china which raises my price on the oil. why don't you see this? >> john: because they would retaliate. free trade is good, this is a bad idea. to your last point you say that gas stations collude and set the price. we a bet about that. let's play a clip. >> i go to gulf, shell, get (t), it's the same price. >> john: i don't believe you. >> john: i won a thousand dollars, i want a thousand. can i get a thousand. >> john: all right we made the thousand dollar bet and i paid off even though i didn't lose

it. >> what do you mean you didn't lose it? >> northern boulevard, they got four stations in greater manhattan. they have it identical or one penny off, always. on the websites you can list every day the prices are different. we checked, shell, mobile, gulf, they all had different prices. >> bill: not even -- they don't even speak english. they get a little text. this is what you will be charging today. and they slam it in. yes you do. again for the record, nice guy, you are stand-up guy you paid the thousand dollar bet. >> you paid $5,000. i assume it was a mistake. >> bill: look.

i want to belt more with you. >> bill: i felt sorry for you, it is a good charity, but i will tell you this. everybody should know this, the oil companies are not your friend we are getting hosed at the pump. for all things we discussed tonight. >> john: thank you, bill o'reilly. >> he is wrong about everything but the oil companies are not our friends, they are greedy, self-interest ruthlessly competitive and where we should be fangful for this. sarah palin will share her ideas on how government could lower the cost of gas but next, we'll talk about those evil oil speculators. what does speculation really do? [ applause ] thanks for babysitting the kids, brittany. so how much do we owe you? that'll be $973.42. ya know, your rates and fees aren't exactly competitive.

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>>. >> john: bill o'reilly and president obama have something in common. bottom want to crackdown on those greedy oil speculators. president said he will. >> we can't afford a situation where some speculators reap millions while families get the short end of the stick. >> john: do americans get the short end of the stick? charles payne is speculator. charles, a lot of americans think you greedy speculators make prices rise? >> first of all, things that bill o'reilly said, i don't mind. i want to start there. just the idea that oil belongs to all of us is like the most marxist thing i've ever heard him say. [ applause ] >> i would love to be able to go bill drive home tom night, i

pitch a tend on his lawn. me and my family will be cooking out because it's our land, it's not his house or his property. it's our land. the idea somehow speculators are always right. j.p. morgan lost $2 billion on what, speculator speculating. you don't always make money. you don't put a hole in the ground and black gold rushes out. >> john: but don't speculators make us pay more? >> speculators bet the price will go up. ultimately the price will go up. >> every time you do a transaction there is a buyer and seller. someone is on the other side of that trade. someone is speculating it will go down. when it goes down, speculators never get the credit when it goes down. natural gas prices, these prices they have come down so

dramatically they are putting the coal industry out of business but creating tremendous amount of jobs. >> john: bill o'reilly says i don't want ban speculators, i wanted them to put 50% down? >> if i fly with a company, you can buy 10% margin, that spriest transaction. this is a mini aig and they are letting a lot of people buy and they can't cover the costs but you can arbitrarily throw a number out there, 50%. they don't have skin in the game. they are making a bet. they lose and win on these belts. >> john: behind the idea speculation is bad. my understanding is these people making bets on the futures market, the reason the onion price fluctuated more because speculation was banned because

speculation like the ant and grasshopper. grasshopper spends it now but the ant saved for the rainy day. that is what speculators do. >> they understand there could be a shortage down the line. they will have it and they will supply it. and then the price comes back down. bottom line this helps to regulate the market. the finger pointing at speculators is irresponsible. people should be more upset again at government the amount of money they are taking, the onerous rules and regulations, inability to drill more. when o'reilly said drill on land yeah, because the government would put out more options. >> john: a hell a lot. >> let's say half. that is a lot of land and potential. as far as selling it overseas weaker is not selling oil per se

but if we have to sell it, that is what we want to do. we are in a global economy. we don't want to take advantage of global economy is nuts. we better tap into them. >> john: strayed win-win and for explaining that to people. up next sarah palin on the supply of oil and more myths. emily's just starting out... and on a budget. like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. see how much you could save with allstate. are you in good hands?

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>>. drill baby, drill. >> that is sarah palin in 2008 but the current administration is less keen on that and they also said no to that keystone pipeline which would have brought more canadian oil to america. they say they wanted to protect our environment. governor palin joins us. you call their attitude terrifyingly naive. >> the president is clueless coming to the need for an energy policy. he really doesn't have an energy policy for america except to cowtow to foreign regimes, rather than helping getting it here, in texas, louisiana and

alaska. this resources under foot and it takes political will to tap into them. >> john: the environmentalists about the keystone pipeline it would raw oil right through the american heartland. it would wreak environmental havoc and they got protestors to join them in protesting that? >> what if they realized our nation is woven together with pipelines. i don't think that the environmentists are sane and sound at all with this argument against keystone which would produce and flow about 700,000 barrels of oil friendly oil into our markets. it makes no sense this one particular issue that they just gotten so up about. it's fund-raising for the environmentalists. it's like can't open anwr and no

good sound reason to open it up, a tiny part up in alaska except that it's kind of like a poster chimed for the environmentalists fund-raising efforts. keystone has become that. >> john: and they got the protestors out. we're showing video of people yelling, stop the pipeline. yes, we can. and tar executives not this earth. you say it's clean oil, but it is gross oil if it did spill, it could spill. another group said it could cause a bp oil spill in america's heartland, source of refresh drinking water for two billion people. it sounds terrifying to people. >> onshore drilling is much safer than offshore drilling that has been seen in the news

relatively lately. this should be something that environmentalists could embrace as opposed to having to force more off other oil exploration and development if they are not going to allow us the safe onshore drilling. john, america has the highest standards in the world when it comes to environmental protection. >> john: the mainstream media or the lame stream media as i like wait you put it talk about keystone, they showed this map. they implied this giant gross pipeline would pollute pristine, clean america. the media rarely showed this map which shows how many pipelines already exist in america. you think media bias is part of the problem? >> a tiny bit of liberal media basis and that base of president obama's and fund-raisers that doesn't money into traditionally

leftist politicians. >> john:er famous for your drill baby drill line. president bush opened up the east and west coast but before it could happen president obama should that down? >> the president has been dishonest about what he has allowed in america, the drilling that is taking place. president bush brought up the drilling but president obama is taking private sector and state land allowances is quite disingenuous because he doesn't have control over that aspect of the energy industry. what he does have control over is federal lapped. he has locked those up. >> john: if we drilled more it wouldn't make that much difference, maybe 1% to the price of gases. >> we've been hearing that how many years?

shouldn't tap in anwr, it will only produce ten years' worth of independence for america. then we should have done it ten years ago. heck, if it was 1 percent, my goodness, isn't that better than nothing? that 1 percent will allow trade i am balancing to even out. it will allow hundreds of thousands of jobs to be created if we were drilling everywhere as the pundit had claimed we perhaps we should be. we have more oil here than anything we would ever have to look for to import from these foreign countries if we had the political will to tap into it. >> john: let's close about talking about some of the oil, anwr. maybe i can explain this for me. i don't know alaska geography, but it's the size of south carolina, but if they drilled would be small like laying a

three foot welcome mat on a basketball court? >> or on postage stamp on a football field. that is the equivalent of the thumb print that is needed for the drilling especially with new technology. >> john: because the drill goes in and goes sideways. >> alaska is hundreds of millions of acres. it's huge. it's two and a half times the state of texas. we're asking for 2,000 acres. it's about the size of lax, a big city airport. that size of a parcel to allow oil companies to be on their drilling for the oil, tapping in to it. then john, flowing into the trance alaska pipeline it used to produce 25% of the u.s. supply. we went down from 2 million barrels a day down to 700,000 barrels a day. it needs to be full.

environmentally and engineering wise, it flows oil the fuller it is. >> john: what if something breaks. it will destroy this pristine environment? >> what has broken in the last 30 years in that trans alaska oil pipeline is nothing except for a crazy dude that shot a gun and poked a hole in it. i don't want the erosion of the fracture. i don't want the make sure that oil companies are adhering to the lease agreement that they make with the owners of the resources. charles payne, i love him, he is wrong. it's not a socialist view with we recognize in alaska read our constitution, the oil reserves are owned commonly. not one business or family owns any of the oil. it is owned in common. that is why as governor

sometimes people want to run me out of town. you are too tough on the oil companies. i'm saying, the oil is owned collectively. i'm working for the people of alaska. got to make sure there is integrity both engineering wise, ethical legislation, vote buying sometimes you hear about, i oversaw all of that and made sure the oil companies were adhering to the leases and their agreement. you know, that is what it took. exxon finally, got their drill rigs and hired the guys. they ever up there, we finally see some action. >> john: thank you governor palin. >> thank you. >> john: coming up, more myths about oil and gasoline. high obtain gas, is this better how much coffee are you fellows going to need today?

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>>. [ applause ]

>> john: we're back with your questions for my guests. jerry taylor from cato innings toos institute, charles payne, fox reporter and robert bryce. first from my facebook page, joey says, why doesn't there seem to be a direct correlation between crude prices and pump prices? >> there is. if you do the different math and run the models. 90% correlation between a variations. it's the main driver. >> john: yes, sir. >> increasing oil production will have a negative eligible impact on world market but why do other people ignore the other side of the coin it's profit you can keep here either way. >> it's absolutely true. if you want to argue increasing

production is going to reduce prices at the pump you are going to be wrong. you won't notice a change. that is not an argument against it. if you do a study a robert hun he found the net benefits of that drilling would be $1.7 trillion over the entire history of that investment. that is lot of jobs and lots of profit and lots of wealth creation worth going forward with. if you want to get and say gasoline prices would be $2 a gallon if we could drill in anwr and drill off california, you are wrong. >> and idea of creating jobs and keeping money here at your point. i think we need more refineries here. if we had more refineries to refine the extra crude i think it would have an impact on the price of gasoline. >> maybe critics of the war in iraq and afghanistan we went to war to keep middle eastern oil flowing. if it is true that we don't get

as much oil from middle east are they suggesting a myth? >> think about it. we don't import crude oil from iran but if there was a war with them, it would have a huge impact on gasoline prices. because it doesn't matter where the oil comes from. a supply disruption is going to increase price of crude ever place else in the world by a certain amount. so it doesn't mean that it won't have an impact on our prices. >> china is going to get more oil out of iraq than we will. i think anyone who says that is just -- i think it's different. >> john: yes, sir. >> what do you think is the government's role in all this? should the government be controlling the free market. did he have the right to make us

pay all this extra money for a product we aren't put anything work in to? >> keep in mind sarah palin was bragging out in the state of alaska they own all the oil up there and make sure every last penny is going to be done. if she were the conservative she advertised she as governor might have promoted a plan that might have privatized it. >> notice sarah palin says energy plan. we don't have an auto plan. that kind of wrets rhetoric equivalence away the game. she is saying the government doesn't have a 15 year plan to impose the will on the energy sector and have its will manifest in the market. that is bad signal. any politician talks that way, pol particulars is talking about government intervention. >> john: do you still have at microphone? it was a good question. how old are you? >> i am 15 years old.

>> john: i should say he is here because he is one of contest winners in the classroom contest a contest where they were to talk about the unintended consequences to government programs. you won a free trip to new york and thousand bucks. okay. [ applause ] >> john: we was the first runner-up and winner is next to him, how old are you? 13 years old and you won $1500. do you have a question also. >> yes, i was wondering i know you talked about ethanol and electric cars, would you give more examples of fuel savers of environmentalists that are not environmentally friendly? >> biofuels, is one of them. it's not just corn ethanol the idea that grass or poplar trees or some other planted could be used to create large amounts of

motor fuel, it simply can't be done. this is one of the longest running bits of foolishness coming out of green america, it's remarkable they keep saying it. >> john: thank you panel. coming up, i'll debunk more myths about gases. >> why is it priced what it is? ♪

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>>. >> john: people complain about oil companies and the price of gas but i say even at $4 a gallon we should thank oil companies. think what they have to do so to bring us a gallon of gas. the oil is sucked out of the ground sometimes from war zones or deep beneath an ocean.

to get to the oil they dig sideways through as much as seven miles of earth. what they find is delivered through long billion dollar pipelines and put in expensive tank teors ship it across an ocean. then it's refined into several types of gasoline. transported in trucks that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars each until finally it gets to stations that spends a fortune in safety devices. even after that the gas still costs less than the bottled water they sell at gas stations. if government produced gas would it cost $50 a gallon. [ laughter ] >> john: there would be shortages. they complain about their profits but we should be glad they make lots of money. profits help pay for pollution controls and pay to help them look for more oil. how much profit do they make? people think its buck or two a gallon, exxon's profit is just 6

cents per gallon. gofh contrast an average of 38 cents per gallon. that is the average gas tax. it's 66 cents in california. it's government that is greedy. not that oil companies won't rip you off if you let them. they sell us like high octane fuel, premium gas. people think premium is ber the. >> it's better. >> it keeps your engine clean zbler when i put regular it runs out faster. >> i think it's safer to put in more premium gas. >> john: it won't last longer. a few cars with high compression and high revving engine need it but for 90% of the cars sold today, high octane is no better. you are just wasting your money. finally, i don't mean to suggest

that everyone i interviewed was as wrong as those people you just saw and bill o'reilly. some people i talked to did know the truth. >> ban speculation, no. >> john: why not? >> it makes for more efficient marketed. >> why do oil prices rise? >> global market. we are competing for scarce resource. >> some knew that ethanol mandates? >> it would have to are corn fields all over. >> how many pipelines are there now? >> 60, i think it's huge pipelines. >> john: will we run out of oil? >> i don't think so. >> john: there will because creative entrepreneurs will find new ways and get new fuels out of the ground unless the bureaucrats and sbirnl extremists crush them. let's not let that happen. that is our show. we'll have another new stossel

episode next thursday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern time on the fox business network. thanks for watching. [ applause ]