please, remember that the spin stots -- stops right here because we are always looking out for you. >> sean: this week will be remembered as a very rough couple of days for the democratic party and its allies in big labor. on tuesday, despite a vicious smear campaign wailinged by the left, republican scott walker of wisconsin became the first governor to survive a recall in american history. he will be my special guest later in the program. but i am also joined in studio by an audience of business expert, political commentators and others. over the course of the next hour, we will examine the influence that unions have over our elected representatives, the dirty tricks they have used to support left-wing politicians, the impact on our public schools and much, much more.

here to help kick things off, we bring in our studio audience. bright, smart, the best and brightest in business and politics. all right. let's start, jennifer stephano, tea party member, on the ground, five days in wisconsin. >> yes. >> sean: all right. scott walker ended up with a much bigger margin of victory than in 2010. what was going on on the ground? >> it had nothing to do with scott walker or the election and with who we are as americans. people are tired of working to feed a union boss and a bureaucrat and that corrupting relationship between the both of them. this is about our children's future. i was on the ground in wisconsin. that's what we talked about. i think that's what won the day, far beyond the election. >> sean: mike, you talked on the radio every single day. i have often discussed what i call an unholy alliance between the unions and the democratic party. how do you describe the quid pro

quo. they take rank-and-file money and give it to the politicians. what do the unions get? >> the exciting thing is that it was reported that 38% of union households in wisconsin supported scott walker, so the tide is turning. while i love that everything that jennifer stands for in the tea party movement, i think it begins and ends with scott walker. he is the ronald reagan of our time against pacco. this is an epic victory that he had the courage to achieve. he emerges as a huge player in the national scene for the g.o.p. and i don't think rich lowrie is wrong when he says this is the deathnel-- i think it's the deathnel as well. i think two things out of the election in wisconsin. 1; a courageous, politician who didn't equivocate with enormous pressure brought to bear on him. and i am inspired by the people of wisconsin. it seems that fiscal

responsibility won the day, not special interests wars. >> that's right. wisconsin is the land of a union-- progressive movement started in wisconsin. >> it is not just democrats who are beholden to the union, it is republican who is are weak-kneed and won't stand up to them. and scott walker, i think has so much back bone to spare that he may buck up a lot of other republicans, including -- i hope -- mitt romney. >> sean: you see, i agree with you. the message is that if voters put you in to institute tough reforms, that if something happens, they were there for him. monica, what do you think? >> that's right. the vote in wisconsin showed that if you have the back of the taxpayer, the taxpayer will have your back when push comes to shove and the unions put the screws to the politicians. the fact that scott walker did not back down, the fact that he held to his guns on this and protected the taxpayer, which has been a novel concept.

mostly democrats have had this corrupt, incestuous relationship with the government-sector unions, they are government-sector unions, not public-sector unions. they are government-sector unions. they have had this incredibly corrupt relationship, been in bed with the democrats for decades. what scott walker did was slam a padlock on the door of the candy store at which both sides have been gorging for decades. of course, the unions went bananas. but the taxpayer said, finally, we have somebody in office, precking us and our interests. the american taxpayers -- we are going to see it nationwide. >> sean: i agree. david limbaugh, you wrote the encyclopedic book this week on barack obama. talk about the relationships that he has, when you go back in his background and social justice and a.c.o.r.n. -- is it all intertwined here? >> the class struggle. he wants to pit labor against

business, the stroy -- the great destroyer is the book. i would like to merge their ideas? >> you want to take their seats and redistribute it. >> everybody will be on the top row. if we can do that next time, but i want to merge their ideas that has to do with the triumph of scott walker and a national referendum on barack obama. people are tired of fiscal irresponsibility. scott walker said i am going to balance the budget and get the economy going. the democratic machine ran out -- the reason they ran out in wisconsin is so obama could community organize and bring his thugs in and organize the recall. the lesson here we need to take is mitt romney needs to be watching. you stand up for principled conservatives and you don't grovel to the amorphous, independent center, you become a principled conservative, people rally around you because all it

is is fiscal responsibility, national defense, adhering to our values that made america great, entrepreneurism, individualism, rugged individualism. good forward, stick to your guns and you will win. >> sean: amelia antonet ty, a millionaire at 19-- i always like to tell that story. business. the relationship. how does big labor impact business, from your perspective? because you are -- you are not a takeover specialist -- >> a turnaround. >> sean: parted of your job is to take companies that are about to go bankrupt and you go in and try to save the company, like what bain capital does. you bring an infusion of capital. how does labor impact your ability to save a company? >> it is company. it's how a company is spun. if they are not spun by bringing people together and say this is the goal and the objective. if we are alined that this is

the goal, we only do one thing at a time, we take small chunks at a time and we spin the company very, very quickly. when you talk about the unions. they are counter intutive to the free market. the free market will correct itself if you let it be free. when it's free, it shows where the demand is. when you see where the demand is, small business capitalizes on the demand. if you try to regulate it, youville a slow death that is the death of a business, every single time. it's the death of a country. we do not live in a country. we live in a global economy. the union cannot regulate the global economy not now. not ever. >> sean: politically speaking, charles, you study the markets every day. is this election coming down to obama's vision, $5 trillion in debt, spread the wealth around, it's our patriotic duty as joe biden said, versus austerity, fiscal responsibility and capitalism -- >> absolutely. it's a global war on both sides

of the atlantic. it is about doing the right thing. you said the word austerity. people spin it to mean different things. but there has been a general e55 fanny by the public. we have gotten over the guilt trip -- do you want to take money from your kids' teachers and short-change the policemen and the firemen? people say, we love the civil servants, but we can't deal with a nation where the public sector worker makes more than i work, where the pensions are lavish and guaranteed, where bad workers can't be fired and they get to retire before i do. and i fund all of this. there is a global battle between these two forces and this is why this election is so, so critical, so important. if people choose the way it's been, we are just doomed. we're absolutely doomed. >> sean: all right. everybody, stay there. we have to hear from this side, including john stosesle, i am standing on his spot, right there. we have a lot more coming up. coming up later in the show and

wisconsin governor scott walker, john stosesle, david lynnbar. but union thuggery on display in the wisconsin recall election should be a warning sign of things to come for republicans, ahead of the november election and it is impact it will have on 2012 as we continue this sperks 2012 as we continue this sperks dition of [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac

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>> sean: welcome back to this special edition of hafnlt dnc chairwoman called the wisconsin recall election a dry run for the democrats. well, we couldn't agree more. now, not only did the effort prove that the voters are standing by republican and conservative ideas, but the election also demonstrated the depths which unions would sink to destroy their opposition. it's a lesson republicans should carry with them until november and beyond. with a review of the union thuggery when it comes to election seasons past and presence. sirius xm host david weber. let me show you jimmy hoffa. listen to the rhetoric. every election season, the big unions spend a lot of money, always to demonize the republican candidates. watch this. >> we see the war in wisconsin, where they try and take

collective bargaining from our public employees. we took two senate seats back. we're taking wisconsin back. they got a war. they got a war with us and there is only going to be one winner. it's going to be the workers. >> you know what? everybody here's got to vote. if we go back and keep our eyes on the prize, let's take these [bleep] and take america back. >> sean: let's take these s.o.b.ds out -- war, is that the type of rhetoric we ought to be having on honest disagreement on how it get a $3.6 billion budget deficit in balance? trying to take those s.o.b.s out? you support that. >> you bring up war any time we talk about subject -- war on women-- no, no, that's the democrat war on republicans -- we are going to take those s.o.b.s out because he won't get his special interest viewpoints

withheld by the voters. >> maybe he got a little excited. but the point is-- a little excited. >> people are losing their jobs. people are losing all of their rights to negotiate, contracts. these are contracts that have been entered into that you want-- wait a minute. the state of wisconsin had a $3.6 billion budget deficit. now we have $150 million surplus in the state and taxes were cut for property owners. the question is, who wins out here? >> on top of that, 30,000 jobs were created. then you look at the down line from the jobs, also, benefits. the people, the 38-plus percent that voted for scott walker, a lot of them are private sector. they belong to private unions. they don't like the government sector eye will use monica's term, taking their funding and taxpayer dollars. this is about real austerity, fiscal conservativism and solutions. they have better health benefits, more choices, not one or two that cost them, by the

way, over $200 more a month as a union-- hang on a second. compare wisconsin where the deficit is gone, they have a surplus. is that good for wisconsin? the unemployment rate's 6.7%, scott walker created just under 30,000 jobs. is that good? as a result of these policies, is that good for the people of wisconsin? >> sure. he has done good things for wisconsin-- that's why he didn't get recalled. >> he outspent his opponent-- that's not true. that's the talking points. >> it is not talking points. >> 63 million was spent on the total election. so we have to get the numbers out there -- >> we don't know the number it's -- >> i just gave them to you. it's in the report. >> sean: john mccain was outspent 3 to 1. is the only reason he lost was

the money. >> no, i don't think that's the fact. >> sean: why did you bring that up? >> no republican has won in wisconsin since 1984. >> sean: scott walker just won. he's a republican. it seems that this is going to be in play. we will get into this in more detail. >> here's the point that tam ramisses. when the curtain closes on the voting booth, that person, that wisconsinite is making a choice. at that point, no union, no monoeither side makes their choice. they push the button or pull the leaver. they have decided by a large percentage that this works for their state and americans are taking that same approach. sean, it's the self-imposed auterity. we have decided we can't spend more than we have. we are seeing real results with principled leader should feel we have a governor who can go forward for wisconsin and the rest of the country, this can happen in your state, not los angeles, spending hundreds of

millions on solar. let's go for real reform. >> let's go for americans for prosperity and citizens united and all the super pacs to put all of this money into the republican candidates. if it's a grassroots effort -- [overlapping dialogue] >> sean: people expressed their opinions by giving money and donating money and raising money for candidates they agree with. do you not support the freedom of speech aspect of that? >> i think that was the stupidest opinion i have ever heard of -- >> president obama-- you want to limit how much money people can donate to candidates they believe in? >> under the table? secretly? the corporations don't want to pay tacks, they want to cut employees-- why are you demonizing corporations. >> should barack obama get rid of his super pacs and the unions? >> sure. if the right is going to do it-- wait, obama said he was going to lead the way and he changed his mind. >> a little contradiction there.

>> sean: thank you for being with us. david limbaugh exposes how big labor is the driving force behind the administration's relentless assault on capitalism. but the only governor in american history to survive a recall, wisconsin's scott walker is here on this special edition is here on this special edition of "hannity," as we

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>> sean: now, when governor scott walker was running for governor, he promised the people of his state felected he would rein in out-of-control spending in madison. on the day he took the oath of office, he began to follow through on his pledge to solve the state's budget crisis, and he did so knowing full well the vicious backlash from unions and other left-wing forces if his state. you won't find that type of leadership on the national stage, but you will find it in my next guest, scott walker. you have had a little time to digest all that has happened here. i want to go back, just prior to the recall election on tuesday. former president bill clinton went to wisconsin. as we are dealing with the issues of unions now. he is claiming that you want to break every union. that was the claim made by a lot of people. and this is the type of

hiberboley that -- hyperbole that is often used. >> if you don't show up and vote, all of those people will say, see, we got him now. we are going to break every union in america. we are going to break every government in america. we are going to stop worrying about the middle class. we don't give a rip whether poor people get to rip their way into. it we got it all now. we got it all. divide and conquer works. you tell them no? you don't care about breaking every union, you don't care about the poor, you don't care about the middle class. now that have you had time to digest this, does this anger you that this is the way they tried to position your desire to balance the budget? >> that was just a week ago. as usual, i think it's why i won, the truth is mightier than the attacks. they attacked and attacked and things like the president said a week ago. and the facts counted. comparison between wisconsin and

illinois. our reforms allowed us to balance our budget without raising taxes and in fact, we brought property tax relief for the first time in 12 years. that allowed us to balance the budget without massive layoff, without cuts in medicaid, which does affect needy families, children and seniors. instead, you look at illinois, where they didn't use our reforms. what you saw were massive tax increases on individuals, massive tax increases on businesses. you have a governor talking about closing 14 state facilities and laying off thousands of public employees and the governor's going to cut more than $1 billion out of medicaid. the facts don't match the rhetoric. the most outrageous part, the claim that the president and his allies were defending the middle class, it's the middle class taxpayers that get stuck paying the bills all the time. >> sean: one thing that infuriates me about unions, they take hard-working, rank-and-file money. most of money is funnel to the

democratic party and there is a kickback system, where they are not challenged. meanwhile, you inherit a deficit of $3.6 billion. my question is, do you think people have caught up to the fact that unions are really looking out for their members. they are looking out for the quid pro quo system that has existed for a long time. do you think your election exposed that? >> i think it's more egregious, i think they are looking out for their leadership. i think that's why in my state, even many of the union households with private-sector unions supported me because they're hard-working taxpayers as well. they saw the public sector employees were years were paying nothing close to what the private sector employees -- union or nonunion and it was a fundamental issue of fairness. my opponent talked about defending the big government union bosses. and we stood up and took them out. >> sean: when paul ryan tries

to, you know, rein in entitlement spending because medicare and social security are going bankrupt. the count re's got $16 trillion in debt. have you an ad, throwing granny over the cliff. the president himself saying the republicans want dirty air and water. the impacts of all of this eye think the hyperbole, the propaganda and the misinformation is not working like it once d. the quintessential, predictable talking points every election, there was an ad that came out the day after the election this week. and liberals in their own words saying how important it is, now they are trying to downpay it. >> this race in wisconsin is the most important race in the country before the presidential election. >> the front line of taking back wisconsin. >> we will recall and replace scott walker. >> you are soon to be ex-governor. >> where do i sign? >> that will affect every race in every partisan election on every ballot from the race for

dog catcher up to the race for president. >> and all of these bully governors across the country -- enough! we are in it to win it. >> recall walker! >> this race is the most important race in the country. >> we made a mistake doing that. >> do the results tell us something about november? >> no, i don't think so. this is a gubernatorial race with a guy who was recalled. it has nothing to do with barack obama at the top of the ticket. >> probably won't tell us much about the future race. >> sean: you know, that ad's pretty effective. were they right before the election or after the election, now that they lost? >> well, they changed it. the amazing thing, sean, as you know, you watch this very closely, have you had me on your tv and radio show many times to talk about this. this was one of the most substandpointive elections we have ever had and one of the most substantive elections in the country. it wasn't personality based or

personal digs. it was two fundamentally different views of what government should be and more than anything, about who is in charge, a handful of big government union bosses or the hard-working taxpayers. and it clearly was bjust as i thinks it should be at the national level, what defines success in government. is it getting more people in government assistance or getting more people off government assistance? particularly off unemployment by opening up the private sector so that more people can create and fill jobs and control their own destiny and freedoms. >> sean: all right. governor, thank you for being with us. it's been a great week for you. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> sean: coming up, we will check in with john stossel, here with a special investigation into teachers unions. and david limbaugh is back to plain how big labor has influenced the obama administration and he will welcome to hotels.com.

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>> sean: welcome back to this special studio audience edition of "hannity," as we look at unions and big labor's biggest fans. from the moment that he burst onto the national scene at the 2004 democratic convention, barack obama made the calculated political decision that he would side with unions, that is, as long as he got something in return. it's that sad fact, that unholy alliance is the driving force behind the president's anti-business bias. the best-selling author of "the great destroyer," just out this week. david limbaugh, back with us. and he has done some legal work for me, over the years. thank you for being with us. i read your book, cover to cover. i look at barack obama. i remember when he said when he was running for office.

he said, if they try to take away your collective bargaining, i am going to put on my walking show shoes shoes and i am goingt out there and you are going to have the president of the united states walking with you. the only thing the unions got in this case, mayor barrett got a tweet the night before the election. >> yeah, yeah. >> sean: what happened -- >> obama is rabidly anti-business and pro--union. it's the flip side of the same coin. look at g.m./chrysler takeover, subordinating the loans, totally illegally, in favor of union buddies who were unsecure and gave them 50% when they were supposed to get 20%. he did the same thing -- he has done the same thing in other areas, where the waivers, the health care waivers, he gave ought 131, more than half to union people. they only represent 12%

employers. >> joe biden is saying, wellmented g.m.'s alive and bin laden's dead. but when you look at number, how many billions of dollars have the taxpayers lost as a result of this? you talk about subordinating people invested in g.m. -- >> that's right. something like $65 billion. the taxpayers lost. i don't remember, viso many figures in my head in this massive, wonderful book i have just completed. but it's -- they kind of run together. but it's an enormous, unconscionable aim. obama claims he is streamlining regulations, he is amassing them at a record pace. this nlr eye mean this labor memo came out where the union recommends that they want to give the unions major influence -- this is a secret memo, boeing wasn't just a single example. they want to give them major influence and business

decisions-- this is important. the national labor relations board. >> a secret, internal memo. >> sean: they wanted influence and impact in the unions and would have impact about where companies could build plan -- plants -- >> and other major decisions too. they are not supposed to have influence on decisions like ha. >> sean: as we look at detroit, one of the great cities in this country, last time i was there, my heart's broken. they are bulldozing neighborhoods to consolidate services in detroit. and all of these car companies, they moved to tennessee, they are moving to alabama, mississippi. why in and why is that city lost half its population? >> you are not letting the market work. you are artificially injecting factors in that ought not be considered and unions have this bargaining power and they can hold employers hostage. this is an adversarial relationship, a legally adversarial relationship. obama has pointed the labor

solicitor, patricia smith with anabominnable record in new york, and worse on the federal level. >> sean: let's go to the extreme. detroit became the extreme, where labor got too powerful and even eastern airlines. i remember baggage handlers were getting paid $60- $80, $100,000. unions give the politicians money. how do they get it back? how are they rewardd? >> it's an inherent conflict of interest. in a private negotiation, have you an employer with a profit motive. it wants to preserve its profit motive, at the same time, paying high enough wage to take care of the laborers, but in a government sector thing, the democrats when they are in charge, see to it that they get high wages, in return for big labor pac money and thuggery at

the ground level as we saw in wisconsin. >> sean: david limbaugh, thanks for being here -- "the great destroyer." >> are you sure that's the name? >> sean: john stossel is here to explain how it became varmenty impossible to fire teachers, no matter how horrible they may be in the classroom. what can be done to break the grip of unions on the public schools and your children. schools and your children. that and much more on schools and your children. that and much more on every bite goes above and beyond the call of deliciousness. that's a big 10-4 kosher. with no fillers, by-products, artificial flavors or colors. hebrew national. the better-than-a-hot dog- hot dog. last season was the gulf's best tourism season in years. in florida we had more suntans... in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start.

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>> sean: welcome back to this special edition of hafnlt we continue to discuss the role that unions play in america. we switch to the american educational system, which has been dramatically altered by labor. in this day and age, teachers cannot be held accountable for failure and if students' scores are low, they are allowed to graduate anyway. i know it sounds ridiculous. but in an investigation by john stossel tproves the sad reality

that we are now faced with -- watch this. >> reporter: your results are awful. they are among the lowest in the nation. >> you make an argument that it's the lowest in the nation, based upon the test scores. now, i would say that ours can get better. but i would say. >> reporter: your predecessors, the unions have been saying that for years. >> i think the unions have a pretty strong history of advocating for high-quality, public edkaysication. >> reporter: but not achieving it. >> our test scores are not what we choose to focus on. we choose to focus on teaching kids. >> reporter: but how do you know if they are learning anything if you don't test them and compare? >> i know my kids are learning when i look in their eyes. [laughter] >> sean: look in their eyes? not test scores? >> we laugh at that. but it's the kids who suffer in his city, they spend about half a million dollars per classroom, about 20-plus-thousand per kid

and they don't learn. >> sean: visupported vouchers. let schools compete for those education dollars. we know the money will go to the best schools. why are teachers unions so resistant to ha? >> reporter: and the education establishment -- because they lose control and they have to suck up to the parents and please the customers. it's the money. if 20-thousand were attached to each kid or the average is about $13,000, schools would work hard to am compete and the best schools would thrive? have you a chart in your hand, how difficult it is to fire a teacher. >> reporter: i brought this because when i talk to the current head of the of the teachers, he said he can't fire bad teachers. they were sending sexually emails to a 16-year-old student. she said, you can fire him, he has to go through the steps. and the principals are too lazy to go through the steps. it doesn't look that bad if you look at it.

but they have a 200-page rule book and the steps go on and on and... this is why-- those are all the steps? >> reporter: and the appeals and this is why the private sector does everything better because have you to improve. union work rules are what kills entrepreneurship. >> sean: if you go back to president reagan in office and there was this historical study, landmark study, a nation at risk -- that study concluded what has happened to the educational system in america, it were done by an outside entity or force would be tantamount to an act of war. have we improve? >> reporter: barely. i have too stupid in america. as i write in my book, "no, they can't," things have gotten better. kids mouth back to me, where i say to fourth graders, school's boring. no, it isn't!

they make it interesting here. >> sean: an all-girls public school, where the kids inspector uniforms with higher test scores, the parents loved it, kids loved it. everything was working and huthe new york civil liberties union try to shut it down -- because it was all girls and they are against experimentation. i don't mean to say that all the charter schools do well -- some are lousy. but parents find out and the schools go away and the best schools thrive? >> the answer's competition and that means getting union influence out of it. >> reporter: and the blob, the education establishment, even in nonunion state, the kids suffer because the rule books are so thick. have you to be able to let the principal fire the bad teachers. >> sean: john stossel, great work. my next guest explain, there is zero accountability and zero transparents necolorado, the public employees retirement board funded by taxpayer dollars has dug itself into a $20-plus

billion-dollar hole. but thanks to obstructionism from the unions, nobody know where is the money went. how convenient. the colorado state treasurer is demanding answers and he is here with the latest on the fight. sir? >> sean, america's taxpayers are being lied to, not only are these unsustainable, lavish public pension plans bankrupting the schools and not only are they risking state credit ratings across the united states, not only are they bankrupting cities all across the united states, but to compound the problem, the union interests won't allow me, as a sitting board member of the pension stos get basic financial information so people can understand the depth of the hole we are in. the union interests are not interested in having this information being transparently available because they are fearful of the revolt we saw in

wisconsin. they are fearful of the ballot initiatives in san jose and san diego. they are not just republicans, these for average americans -- independent, democrats and obama supporters that are saying, enough is enough. let's stand up and get rid of this mountain of debt. let's have accountability. >> sean: tell us what you were able to find out. you can give us some details? >> i haven't been able to find out anything! i asked for basic financial information about the defined benefit plan, where people are promised a rate of return, a massively increased rate of return of 8%, that everybody has said is ridiculous and insane and prepostscprus to keep this promise on purpose to pervasively underfund the plan and create a liable on the backs of our kids and future generations of americans, that they have no clue how it pay for. i wanted basic financial information to understand what the future liables are of this plan because they affect all of

us. we are all investors in the system because there is no chapter 11 insolvency like united airlines. if a public pensions plan goes bankrupt, it's the taxpayers that are left with a massive bailout. >> sean: you are saying it's overly inflated and generous and the taxpayers would be shocked and there would be an uprising so they refous to give you the information? >> you bet! we have had to seesue them with the attorney general. this is transparent information, this is a battle for transparency, whichs going on across the country. it's critical to win because it's critical to state budgets, we have $3 trillion of municipal and state pension debt, which are going to come due. you add that up to obama and you are threatening our national security and all of this is on the backs of our school kids. you know, the grand falsehood is that the democrats and the union interests love to say, we are looking out for the little guy, we are trying to look out for the little guy. this is not about the little

guy. this is about the abuses of the system at the high end of the system. this is people taking advantage of the system to give themselves six-figure pensions, this is about people retiring in their mid 50s for their lives on the state's dime. this is totally and completely unsustainable. it is our kids and the future generations of this country that are going to pay the price for it. >> sean: that's the information every taxpayener every school district in every state and city needs to know about. thanks for the information. appreciate you being with us. >> thank you, sean. >> sean: coming up, we go to our always outspoken studio audience. let not your heart be troubled. pleny more coming up on this

>> sean: welcome back to this special edition of "hannity." joining me again in the new york studio, we have our studio audience. denny, let's start with you. do you think what happened in wisconsin is the beginning of a trend that is going to now move across the country? >> i absolutely think it's the beginning. look at the private sector union membership today. less than 7%. this, in the public sector or government sector, if you will, is the first time that we have seen a chink in the armor here. i think what will occur year after year from now on on is

less members in unions in the government sector. why? unions bring very little to the table these days. do they collectively bargain? of course they do, but the results are pretty much the same from company to company, industry to industry, state to state. they are predictable. the only thing that the unions do today that makes any sense to the unions themselves is they create a divide between the people who manage employees and the employees themselves. that's how they get their funding. that's how they get their dues money. >> sean: i think people are become more conscious of tmore aware. i think as programs like this will make them even more deeply aware. james? >> i agree. i think people are starting to recognize that government unions, giving them collective bargaining powers is not democratic. the voters elected representatives can't decide where to spend taxpayer dollars,

they have to bargain with the unions and the unions insist, we have to get our cut and if you don't satisfy us, we will strike and shut you down. now that, benefits the unions. but that's not how you run a representative government. that's something even union leaders used to recognize. >> sean: yeah. lindsay, one of the things that i know that has gotten a lot of people angry is when they find out that the people in washington and some of the union workers, they make a lot more money -- when you compare the salaries and benefits with their counter parts in the public sector -- >> absolutely. especially if we are talking about teachers unions. let's go back to the teachers unions. john was talk about this policies are bad for students. they are also policies that are very bad and unfair for teachers. in nevada, 7 state teachers of the year were given pink slips because the unions supports seniority-based layoffs. so despite that they were the

best teachers in the state, they got pink slips. >> sean: john's interview, you have the worst test scores of anywhere, how do you know they are learning? "i look in their eyes." todd stearns, you have been following unions and the up on movement and you have been at a lot oferally, how interconnected are they? >> i think the american taxpayers are fighting mad. they see what the unions are doing and the government unions especially are very troubling. what happened in wisconsin is when the people who pay the bills mobilize and go to the polls. i tell a story in my book-- does everybody have a book? [laughter] >> but there is a young man, an eagle scout in pennsylvania had to do his project, which was clearing a path in the city park, raking and hoeing and clearing the land. and the government union objected. they said that that young man would take away jobs from union workers. and at least in this one

pennsylvania town, the only legal hoe they could use was a union hoe. >> sean: oh, my. i am not going there... steven, we are going on save the best for last. you get the final word and wrap things up for us. >> one of the things, this isn't just politics. this is about math. what you see out there with the $3 trillion in unfunded liabilities, we can't pay that back at that level. it is a fiscal tsunami. that's the difference right now. it is not just politics, this is math. the math is really bad. >> sean: that means on the state level -- >> state and local level. >> sean: state and local level. >> school districts. >> sean: guys like bobby jindal and scott walker and chris christie and bob macdonald, they are setting a paradigm for the country. >> if they don't lead the way, nobody is. they have the opportunity right now. >> sean. >> great, great panel tonight. the best and brights in business and politics, even our one liar