this matter in a professional way, not in a partisan way. unfortunately there has been a clear commitment by the chairman involved, and leaders in the republican party in-house, but also in the senate to try to turn this into a political issue. and i think it is worth checking in with the american people as to whether they think that is worth the effort, that that is what they want congress to be doing at a time when congress could be passing bills tomorrow that would keep a million construction workers on the job in this country, in this economy. they could be passing bills tomorrow that would insure that teachers would not be laid off, and the teachers that have been laid off with return to the classroom. they could pass a bill tomorrow, to provide access to historically low mortgage-interest rates to americans across the country during a period where we're still very much recovering from

a terrible housing -- having the housing bubble burst and the crisis that ensued for so many families with regards to the values of their homes. these are actions that the american people expect congress to take. they to not expect congress to waste time on, you know, politically motivated fishing expeditions, which this has clearly become. >> on that point the president is going to hold an event later today to call on congress to keep the student loan rate low. leaders in the house and senate and the republican party say they haven't heard from the president or from anyone in the administration in recent days in regards to the letters that they sent. >> that is simply not true. >> it's not true? >> it's simply not true. i can't speak to any communications the president had. as you know he was participating in the g-20 summit. we were actively working with members of congress. >> in both parties? >> absolutely in both parties. the fact of the matter is the

only reason we're having this discussion is that president obama raised it, brought it to the public's attention, went around the country talking about it. you would not be hearing about the absolute necessity of insuring that these loan rates didn't double if it weren't for president obama's decision to highlight this need, and in the end we're going to get this done, i believe, because that's the action that he took, and we are actively working with members of congress to get this done. i would -- you know, we've seen this pattern before, refusal to act, refusal to even acknowledge there is a problem unless and until the president highlights it, goes around the country talking about how it matters, how contrary to the assertions of some in the republican party education is very much an economic issue, how contrary to the assertion of the speaker of the house, this is not a phony issue, it is a deadly serious issue for more than 7 million

students in america. and that's why we have to take action on it, and that's why in the end we believe that we can get there and get it done. >> have you got even closer to determining what it -- megyn: you saw a fiery exchange between the white house pr*es secretary jay carney and the press corp. over operation fast and furious. political war is breaking out over the obama administration's refusal to hand over documents on this gun-walking operation that allowed thousands of weapons to go into the hands of mexican criminals, at least two of which were found at the murder scene of an american border patrol agent. welcome to "america live." i'm megyn kelly. speaker of the house john boehner says the white house's decision to put the documents under lock and key is an admission that the white house was involved in way. mr. carney weighed in on that scandal kicking offer the white house briefing.

keep in mind yesterday was the first time that there was ever any alleged link established about this operation to the white house. it's not clear that the white house is involved, it's not clear any longer that it wasn't. he kicked off today's briefing by saying that every piece of documentation relating to operation fast and furious has been provided to congress, and accusing republicans of playing politics here. >> this is own operation, and a tactic that was generated in the field during the previous administration, that when it was discovered by the attorney general and he became aware of it he ended it in this administration. he referred it to the inspector general for investigation. it has been recognized by the attorney general and others in this administration, including the president as a flawed tactic that needed to be ended, and investigated and this administration has done that. what this is about, after all this time, and all these

documents, and all the testimony, is an attempt to score political points. megyn: all of this comes less than 24 hours after a house panel voted to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress as they try to get to the bottom of how so many guns wound up in criminal hands, want happened to a murdered border patrol agent brian terry, who died along the arizona-mexico border, and two of those fast and furious guns were found at the scene, these are guns, we, our government let walk into the hands of mexican criminals, and brian terry is dead at the hands of two of them. that is what the republicans say is at the heart of their efforts to figure out who in our government authorized this. how many people knew about it, how wiretaps got signed off on and how high exactly did this go? the white house saying they've been given that information, and any further probing at this point is a political fishing

expedition. moments ago our own ed henry, our chief white house correspondent asked, exactly what documents the president by asserting executive privilege now is trying to protect. >> on fast and furious you kept saying that the attorney general deserves credit for ending the gun running operation. you seem to be leaving out the fact that agent terry was killed. >> not at all. >> you're not mentioning -- does he not deserve, the attorney general -- you're giving him credit for ending the operation. does he not deserve some blame for the fact this this gun running operation resulted in a federal agent being killed on his watch sth. >> the attorney general made clear and has made clear on numerous occasions, including the eight times he has testified on capitol hill with regard to this matter that he -- when he learned about it he took this matter exceptionally seriously, that is why he ended it, and that is why he referred it to the inspector general for investigation. this is a tactic that was employed in operations in the prior administration, during the

prior administration, it was a field-driven tactic. it was not something that was generated out of washington. when it was discovered by the attorney general he put an end to it, and he launched a -- requested an investigation into it. i think that demonstrates the seriousness with which he regards it. >> you've given the attorney general credit in this briefing for turning ove over every page. i think the justice department has tens of thousands of pages. how can you say every page has been turned over if congress has 10% of it. >> i think you're engaged in a little selective listening. what i did say, every page related to the fast and furious operation, and that is what is at issue here, how did this operation come about? how did this tactic begin to be used, a flawed tactic, which everyone recognizes, including the attorney general, the president of the united states,

congressional leaders of both parties was a flawed tactic and a mistake, and that's why this attorney general referred this matter to the ig for investigation. megyn: a couple of things. clearly the house republicans disagree with what mr. carney just said that every document relating to operation fast and furious has been turned over. there is another category of items they want, that is information related to what they believe may have been a cover up by the doj. congress was given a letter by the doj back in february of 2011 that was full of inaccuracies, lies, the administration denies that character eyization. they eight months later had to withdraw the letter it was so full of errors. congress wants to know who gave the false information and so on. they are at issue, impasse on that. there is a category of documents they have not yet got even. mr. karen me points out attorney general holder ended the operation. there are questions about who started it. he said it wasn't a washington

operation. we don't know who tart started this. we know atf and phoenix did it but we also know they had to have doj sign off on the warrants to track the operations in mexico. what specifically did they know about fast and furious? did they know it was an intentional gun running operation? those questions are still out there. and, you know, the doj takes the position they've already given an extraordinary disclosure and they have an internal inspector general answering these other questions. the republicans in the house believe they are entitled to more answers. that's where we stand today. just ahead we will be joined by two men who do know what they are talking about on these issues. we have so many legal experts out there today saying things that are not necessarily correct about the legal standard, executive privilege, have you been getting a lot of conflicting information? well we've got two guys today who both worked in high-ranking positions at the department of justice. one has argued case necessary front of the ooh bream court, one was legal counsel to the vice president of the united

states. they know a thing or two about executive privilege. they will be here to explain why this is such a big deal, what the president has done, what he's not done, and what is likely next in this showdown. wol, the supreme court -- well, the supreme court today ruling against the ceiu -- seiun a growing battle over political spending by unions. we'll show you why this will be one of the hottest-contested issues in the coming election. plus, a group of middle school students relentlessly taunt a bus monitor. now as the public shows support for this woman, we are hearing from the father of one of these alleged bullies. and in three minutes we will get to those questions about how the president can assert executive privilege in the fast and furious investigation and why he's done so just at the 11th hour if there was no white house involvement. two former doj officials are here right after the break. >> and he's the proof.

here, mr. chairman, is the proof that department of justice in washington -- not arizona, in washington -- knew about the tactic of gun walking well before brian terry was murdered. ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios

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megyn: fox news alert on our top story now, the white house today on defense addressing questions from the press office about why president obama who promised record transparency in his administration is now asserting executive privilege to block the release of certain documents from his attorney general to the u.s. congress. documents relating to a government program known as operation fast and furious which allowed guns to walk into the hands of mexican criminals. the idea was that we'd track them, and we would ap rehelp the criminals n. the end, hundreds died in mexico and thiess one american border patrol agent died, and two of those guns were found at the death scene.

jay carney, the press secretary, repeating over and over again that this is about republicans trying to score political points. >> the problem of gun walking was a field-driven tactic that dated back to the previous administration, and it was this administration's attorney general who ended it. in fact, the justice department has spent the past 14 months accommodating congressional investigators, including producing 7,600 pages of documents and testifying at 11 congressional hearings. yet republicans insist on moving forward with an effort that republicans and objective legal experts have noted is purely political. given the economic challenges facing the country, we believe house republicans should instead be engaged in efforts to create jobs and grow the economy rather than political theater. megyn: joining me now, shannon coffin who's a former assistant deputy attorney general under president george w. bush and was former counselor to the vice

president, dick cheney. shannon, thank you very much for being here. we're getting our other lawyer micked up. you wrote a very interesting piece talking about executive privilege, something that mr. carney pointed out was raised by the bush administration six times, president obama just this once. let me get your overall reaction to whether it is appropriate for executive privilege to be raised by the department of justice even if it is not protecting any communications the doj had with the white house. if they were all internal doj communications. >> megyn, hi. it's, it's within the realm of the law as it exists now to have what's called a deliberative process privilege that protects agency communications, wholly-internal agency communications. but it's a very weak privilege. megyn: very weak privilege, indeed. and what that means as a result is that -- and joining me now,

by the way s jay christian adams, he's a former department of justice attorney as well. and what that means, that it's a weak privilege, is that, okay, the doj can assert it. let me stay with you on this, shannon. the doj can assert it, but what is the likelihood that a court is going to back the doj? >> i think in this case, megyn, it's pretty unlikely. it's a needs-based privilege, and congress has a pretty legitimate law-making need for this information. they're investigating whether there have to be any changes in the rules about gun walking in investigations. and that's a legitimate legislative need. and against that is a really weak privilege where doj is claiming that they have the right to withhold information about how they determined they were going to respond to media inquiries. that's at the edge of what might be considered executive privilege. it's certainly presumptively privileged, but a court is probably going to look askance

at that. megyn: so, jay christian adams, welcome back to the program. i want to ask you, the doj can come out and say -- well, president obama has to assert it. that doesn't mean they had communications with president obama. they're saying we can do it as an administrative agency, we can assert this privilege even if we didn't talk to president obama, and i think we all agree that is true. they can assert this deliberative process privilege, but as shannon's pointing out, it's not an absolute privilege, it's a qualified privilege, and it is one that a court will take a very close look at and very often a pessimistic look. >> well, that's right. and richard nixon found out the hard way that the privilege cannot be used to protect wrongdoing. and in this particular instance, congress is trying to get to the bottom of why people said things that were not true like ronald white, the assistant attorney general, who denied fast and furious. that wasn't true. tracy at opa has been saying similar things -- megyn: that's the press agent at

doj. >> they can't cover up wrongdoing with a privilege. megyn: now, if next week the house goes forward with a contempt vote against the attorney general, shannon, the options are that the u.s. attorney, a u.s. attorney who works for mr. holder will have to go before a jury and ask a jury to proceed with criminal contempt charges against the attorney general. that's not going to happen. >> right. he's going to recognize the president's assertion of privilege and say there's nothing to prosecute here. and then the house has the option as the democratic house did in the u.s. attorney investigation during the bush administration of suing to enforce their subpoenas. megyn: they'll go into court and say to a judge, the u.s. attorney isn't helping us out, can you, judge, make the doj turn over these documents. and if a court issues that order, the odds are the attorney general complies. and by the way, i'm told he would, at that point, have to produce a log to the court say what the documents are that he's

withholding. that's something issa's wanted. >> well, this whole blanket assertion of privilege that the government makes here is completely unprecedent inside this context. the deliberative process privilege protects only the deliberative materials in the communications and doesn't protect any underlying facts. so they're supposed to have done redactions and produced the nonprivileged materials already in those documents. and what the president has done here is probably without reviewing the documents at all just said, no, everything's privileged. megyn: chris, you point out in a piece that you've written that there is another option available to congress which i doubt a lot of people have thought of. what is it? >> well, look, not only does congress have the power to investigate like they are now, but they also have the power of the purse. they can defund by simply not appropriating money o some of these activity -- to some of these activities. they can defund portions of the justice department in the upcoming budgetary process and

exercise power that way unless they get answers. it's not something they normally do, but the constitution gives them the power to do it. megyn: in particular with respect to the press agent, this tracy, the person who issues all the press releases for eric holder, she could find her funding taken away. and, shannon, you point out that's one of the oddities of the doj's objections here is that not only are you saying our internal deliberative process you can't get at, but we don't even want the stuff our media department discussed about this getting out. is that unusual? >> well, that's unprecedented and, quite frankly, silly. and christian's absolutely right. as a matter of fact, rahm emanuel himself tried to cut off funding to the office of the vice president when there was a dispute about the nature of the office of the vice president. so that didn't pass, but democrats are well familiar with the efforts to cut off funding. megyn: would have been very expensive for you and your former boss, mr. cheney.

gentlemen, thank you for your expertise. >> thank you. megyn: the city of sanford, florida, just fired police chief bill lee. ahead, an unhappy city council member. ♪ why not make lunch more than just lunch? with two times the points on dining in restaurants, you may find yourself asking

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megyn: well, new reaction today to news that the florida police chief at the center of the trayvon martin shooting case has been fired. sanford chief bill lee decided not to arrest george zimmerman immediately after the shooting in february, throwing the case into the national spotlight. chief lee went on paid leave in march. he tried to resign back in april, but that resignation was rejected by the sanford city commission after a very heated debate. the commission was very split over this issue on whether he should be, you know, the quote-unquote fall guy. you may remember this passionate argument from one commissioner.

>> i don't feel that this city is broken, i feel this city was invaded, this city was invaded by people who have their own personal agenda -- [applause] but i do not feel this city is broken. megyn: later this hour, ms. mahaney will join me with what she thinks is the real reason behind sheriff lee's termination, and it has nothing to do with the stated reasons. that's about 15 minutes away. fox news alert now on new drama from egypt. these are live pictures from the heart of cairo. riot police there trying to control protesters outside of parliament, but the crowds keep growing. the government was supposed to announce today the results from the presidential election last weekend. but those have now been delayed. leland vittert was just in the middle of those protests in cairo. leland? >> reporter: good evening, megyn. the crowds are extremely unhappy, to say the least, about the delay of those election results. we were just down in the crowd,

we have another camera set up so you can see just how large it is down there in tahrir square. there's a real sense of anti-americanism, for the first time a real sense of anti-israel sentiment down there in the crowd. and this crowd, mostly made up of the muslim brotherhood, is large, getting bigger. they are preparing for a campout, and they are angry. under a blistering noon sun, thousands chanted their support for muslim brotherhood presidential candidate. the oppressive heat forced protesters to turn some campaign signs into makeshift tents. a shaded sidewalk became prized real estate to get some rest for those weary by nights of protests. the growing group in tahrir is an by with the ruling military hundred that -- junta, issuing a decree that strips all by ceremonial powers from the

president and delaying the announcement of the presidential election results. >> we're not accepting the results. >> reporter: so you think they're cheating? >> yes, that's what i'm thinking. everybody here, that's what everybody here thinking. >> reporter: and that makes you angry? >> yeah, of course. that's why we are here. and we're going to stay until they grow. >> reporter: this group marching has come all the way from port said, that's about four or five hours away here in egypt, a long journey. and we're hearing from these people they will not leave tahrir square until he becomes president. you came from alexandria just to be here. >> yeah. because i want the freedom. >> reporter: and you can see from our live camera here those white tents, and that is what people have set up in order to camp out here for what they say could be a very, very long time. we're expecting a much larger demonstration tomorrow, probably at least a million people coming out here to tahrir square. right now, megyn, there's about

800,000 -- [inaudible] it is announced the muslim brotherhood has won this election, it will certainly change the power dynamic here in the middle east. megyn: closely watching that one. leland, thank you. well, the u.s. supreme court this morning delivered a big smackdown to a major union, one that will effect how unions engage in political spending from this point forward. we will tell you how this could be a major blow to the unions. and reports that justin bieber may have to trade in the stage for the slammer. why the long arm of the law is looking into the pop star. and a growing number of high-profile democrats bailing now on this summer's national convention. chris stirewalt joins us to tell us what's driving this and what it could mean for the president's re-election efforts. ♪ ♪ are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement

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megyn: fox news alert, now what's becoming a growing nationwide battle over political spending. the u.s. supreme court handing down a ruling this morning against a powerful union in a dispute over dues being used for political causes. it all stems from a case out in california where state workers, as in many states, are forced to

pay union dues even if they don't join the union. several of these folks sued the service employees' international union over money that was used, their money, individuals' money, for political ads and speech that the individual contributors did not agree with, you know, for example, they supported a bunch of democrats, and these were republicans or independents who didn't want their money used for that, and they weren't given the choice to opt out. the court deciding with the workers saying unions must give members a chance to opt out of paying for political issues they oppose. simon rosenberg, president and founder of ndn and former campaign adviser to president clinton and marc thiessen, a former speech writer for president george w. bush. this is actually something, when i was covering the court, they issued a big decision in this. the rule of law has been established for a long time that unions can't do this. you've got to give people the chance to opt out, you can't

just make me -- in order to work for the state -- pay money to the public employee union that the union gets to use in a political cause i may or may not support. you can't. so the seiu found a way around that, marc, and the u.s. supreme court just said nice try, but no. >> exactly. look, this is the second major blow the unions have taken in recent weeks. first, they were defeated in their efforts to unseat scott walker because he pushed through collective bargaining reforms and reforms that ended compulsory union membership which they opposed, and they lost that terribly. and now they've been rejected 7-2, it wasn't even a close decision in the supreme court, in this decision that they cannot compel people who choose not to join a union to sub subse their political activities. i think it's a sign of desperation that they even went to the supreme court to fight for the right to compel non-union members to sub subside their political activities. when scott walker enacted his

reforms, people left the unions in droves. the wisconsin federation of teachers has lost 6,000 members in the last year, the public sector worker union has lost 30,000 members in the last year, and the same thing happened in indiana when governor mitch daniels enacted those reforms. so when you have fewer workers, fewer people making voluntary contributions, you're stuck trying to compel people, and the supreme court told them, no, you cannot come pell non-union wormers. -- workers. megyn: simon, they said it was a special assessment, it wasn't the end-of-year assessment, it was superb. and the on-non-union members said it was special. what does this sea about -- say about where it's going for the unions? fundraising, cash has been king for the unions and is there a downward decline happening right now for the unions and money? >> well, the major reason that

union membership is down in the states is because there's been, you know, almost a million public employees laid off throughout the 50 states over during this course of the recession. there are substantial, substantially fewer union public employees than there were, you know, two or three years ago. that's why the numbers are down. it's not because people are leaving the union because of what marc just said. and as you know this whole thing, megyn, is that, you know, the public -- the private sector has been creating jobs. one of the big drags on the american economy in the last, you know, several years has been the incredibly rapid layoffs of firemen and teachers and policemen and other folks at the state and local level. and, you know, that's part of the reason union membership is down. but, look, there's no doubt -- let's just be clear about this, right? -- the campaign finance system is changing in america. the unions actually today have more clout in many ways than they did before because of the citizens united decision allows them to spend money directly on

advertising in campaigns in a way that will allow them to control their narrative and their message more than before -- megyn: yeah. the same power that it gave to corporations -- >> yeah, same power it gave to corporations. so in the same way companies have more power, unions do too. megyn: marc, we saw a couple bag ott initiatives -- ballot initiatives that passed in california that cut down on the power -- on the pensions that the public sector employees were going to get upon retirement saying we can't afford it. >> sure. megyn: and now there's a ballot initiative out in california again that would prohibit the unions from using the money gathered from the payroll deductions for political purposes. forget making people object, you just can't do that anymore, unions. don't be pulling dues monies out and using it on politics. are we seeing, you know, a watershed moment here? >> we're definitely seeing a trend. look, the reason i know even president obama abandoned the talking point that the private sector's doing fine, simon. [laughter] so, you know, public worker

unemployment rate is 4.2%, that's pretty good. but the reason the unions are losing public support is because -- and why they're getting defeated on the ballot as you point out, megyn -- is because they're opposing common sense reforms. in wisconsin and, quite frankly, across the entire country most people contribute to their pensionses and to their health care, and they think it's absolutely normal for public sector workers to be required to do the same thing. you've also seen things like, for example, senator marco rubio has this rave act. most people don't realize this, but union contracts actually don't set a minimum wage, they set a maximum wage which means companies can't pay bonuses to productive workers. so senator rubio's trying to make it legal. these are the kinds of things that are making people think the unions are live anything a different century. you know, and so that's why the support is dropping. megyn: simon, to what extent have some of the extreme tactics of certain members of unions, you know, going on people's front lawns and their kids are scared, hurt them, or is in the

result of sort of the decline in some of the public sentiment against unions in an effective pr campaign by republicans, or has there been a real shift in the way they behave and the value they offer? >> look, clearly, in the 1950s a third of all working people in america were in a union. today that number's about 11%, right? and 7% in the private work force. so there's been a sea change in america's relationship to unions. and i think that, you know, what's important, though, in all this is that the backdrop to this is a period of 12 years where we've seen no wage and income growth in the united states. median income for everyday people has dropped since 2001 at a very precipitous level, it's gone all the way back to 1993, 1994 levels, and i think that where the republicans have to be careful is they just don't want to look like they're siding with plutocratic interests and big corporations and their own special interests against the interests of working people. megyn: got it. >> so they've got to be careful in threading the needle here to

not look anti-worker and anti-american in this debate as well. megyn: i love the word plutocratic. rapacious plutocratic is even better. [laughter] >> bring me back, and i'll use it again. megyn: thanks for being here. coming up, not long after the murder of border agent brian terry in 2010, we learned he may have been killed by a gun federal agents were supposed to be tracking. since then the border agents' union has said they have growing concerns about doj policies along our borders. the union president explains why they are now calling for the attorney general to resign. and a video gone viral, a group of middle school students taunt an elderly bus monitor, calling her names, making her cry. the humanity is completely missing. now we are hearing for the first time from the family of one of the bullies. and the city counselor who defended a police chief in the wake of the trey salon martin -- trayvon martin shooting. in three minutes, patty malaney

is here live with what she says is the real reason he was let o go. >> where's the character of commissioners who won't stand up for one of the fine police officers in florida? where is the character of people who won't stand up for sanford? as a doctor, i do everything i can to make

sure my patients get the very best care. but look at our health care system. everyone agreed we needed reforms -- but this new health care law -- it just isn't fixing things. president obama promised my patients that they could keep me -- but what if because of this new health care law -- i can't keep them? i've looked at this law. i know the consequences: delayed care and worse yet -- denied care. studies show the president's health care law is projected to add hundreds of billions of dollars to our deficit -- and increase spending by more than a trillion dollars. and the truth is -- we still don't know how much this law will eventually cost.

i don't want anything to come between my patients and me -- especially washington bureaucrats. we need real reform that improves care, and the president's health care law just isn't it. it just isn't worth it. this is where health care decisions should be made. not in washington.

megyn: back, now, to one of our top stories today. sanford, florida, police chief bill lee was fired late yesterday. he is the man who decided, well, who originally was part of the team that looked into the trayvon martin killing after george zimmerman shot and killed the unarmed teen back in february. chief lee and the sanford police department immediately came under fire for how they handled the investigation. and there were calls for the chief to resign. in the march the city manager said chief lee needed to be let go, so the city could, quote, move forward. then in april lee tried to

resign, but a deeply-divided city commission voted not to accept that resignation after a fiery debate. listen here to commissioner patty mahaney as she defended chief lee back then. >> what did the chief do wrong? what did the chief do wrong? i mean, tell us. sit here for those of y'all that know more about law enforcement than i do and tell us what the chief did wrong. [applause] megyn: joining mow now once again -- me now once again, patty mahaney. now chief lee has been forced out, fired by the rest of the commission. why? >> well, quite frankly, megyn, it's almost too long of a story to tell in this short of a time. it's a political, it's a political situation, megyn. um, our city manager had to fire our police chief based on a 3-2 vote of no confidence. quite frankly, at the time police chief lee was hired there

were two commissioners who adamantly opposed his hiring. just getting him hired was, quite frankly, a debacle to get through. there is one commissioner particular who's had it in for chief lee since the day he stepped into that office. i think that the majority of our commission really, really looked past what's right and what's wrong and looked at this from a political perspective, and, um, quite frankly, i think we have other commissioners who just refused to accept no matter how far away we get from the incident and how deeply we get into looking at the facts we have commissioners who just refuse to accept it no matter how many times you explain why mr. zimmerman was not arrested that night. there are commissioners and community members who just cannot understand or accept it. megyn: but was it chief lee's decision not to arrest george zimmerman, or was it the original local district attorney who ultimately was replaced by

the special prosecutor, angela corey? >> it was the original district state attorney. mr. norman wolfinger. that very night, the night of the incident, the investigator at the scene and chief lee when he arrived thought that, in fact, that it was not appropriate to arrest him. george zimmerman made a claim of self-defense. known wanted to -- nobody wanted to start that speedy trial clock ticking. but about two weeks later the sanford police department presented the evidence to mr. wolfinger's office with a charging recommendation, and state attorney wolfinger told them, no, we're not going to charge him. megyn: so do you think at the end of the day this was politics, they needed a fall guy for sanford -- >> you bet. yes, ma'am. megyn: and chief lee -- >> yes, ma'am. megyn: what's the story behind chief lee? the last time we heard you, you went to the mattresses as they say in "the godfather," saying

people don't understand who we're dealing with here. >> yeah. i still would do the same thing. chief lee's a 30-year career law enforcement officer. he's had a stellar career with 27 years with the, with the seminole county sheriff's department, he also taught at seminole state college. he has had an absolute unblemished career. he is a deck crated officer, he is an -- decorated officer, he is a truly honorable man who is loved by those in the law enforcement profession. our officers absolutely would follow chief lee anywhere. chief lee is the chief that they wanted. the men and women who who have o out into the night and face the drug dealers and face the criminals and the dangers begged at the time for chief lee. chief lee's been vilified, megyn, absolutely unjustly. megyn: well, the city manager, mr. bone part, has gotten what he wanted. patty, thank you for being here. >> thank you, megyn. megyn: and the police chief is not the only development in this

investigation. stunning new video has been released in this case. george zimmerman at the crime scene describe what he says happen. here you can see him being interrogated by police, but he reenacts the night in question. we're going to play it for you from start to finish. and an outpouring of support for a school bus monitor who was relentlessly bullied. she was called fat, poor, ugly, you name it. now for the first time we're hearing from the family of one of the bullies. >> scary. put those sunglasses back on. >> looking like a troll. get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. just $14.99. start with soup, salad and cheddar bay biscuits then choose one of 7 entrees plus dessert! four perfect courses, just $14.99.

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megyn: fox news alert on new developments with a piece of video that's getting national attention. a school district near rochester, new york, holds a news conference just a few moments ago this happened about

a video that's now gone viral showing a bus monitor bullied by a group of middle school students. she was verbally abused and threatened to the point of tears. town officials say their phones have not stopped ringing. gregg jarrett has the latest. >> reporter: you may have trouble seeing through the tears in yourize when i first saw it. a group of middle school students insulted, demeaned and threatened a 68-year-old school bus monitor, karen klein, who is seen trying to ignore the taunts from students calling her fat, allly and poor. at one point she appears to wipe away tears. >> yeah, you're fat. you're so fat. >> oh, no -- >> oh, my god

>> reporter: cruelty and profanity gets worse. we can't show it to you, it's on our web site, foxnews.com. one student said you're so ugly, your kids should kill yourself. her own son reportedly committed suicide a decade ago. mrs. klein did not report the incident. >> i don't like confrontations like that. i didn't want to do anything no hurt anybody. that wouldn't have looked good either. you know, i probably would have been fired actually. if i'd have done anything violent. so i just restrained myself, and i tried to pretend that they weren't doing this. i've escaped a lot in if my life in trying to let things go, you

know? >> reporter: the bus uploaded the video to youtube which has been viewed by about a million times. that got the attention of the central school district which notified police. one father said he was so heart broken to learn that his son was involved, but he thinks the boys have suffered enough since their faces were made public on the video. >> my family's received death threats. it was a stupid mistake, and he's paying for it, but it's way out of control. >> reporter: authorities just finished a news conference. police revealed that some of what happened could rise to the level of a crime. they're not going to do it because karen klein doesn't want them to. by the way, nice people have raised through a web site about $150,000. it is indie go go.com.love for karen klein. check it out. meg? megyn: god bless her. gregg, thank you. stunning new evidence just

released by george zimmerman's attorney in the trayvon martin case. for the first time, we're seeing on tape mr. zimmerman's reenactment of what he says happened that night.♪ we will show it to you from start to finish. [ barks ] ♪ [ upbeat ] [ barks ] beneful playful life is made with energy-packed wholesome grains... and real beef and egg. to help you put more play in your day. your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.

megyn: a fox news alert. explosive new evidence in the trayvon martin shooting case. for the first time since becoming a nationwide controversy. we are hearing directly from george zimmerman in his own words on the details of what happened the night he shot and killed the 17-year-old. zimmerman's defense team releasing this extraordinary video. this is interrogation tape, along with written statement, audio recordings and more. all of which could shed some light on the defense-self claim. among the evidence is an interview at scene, 24 hours after the shooting.

zimmerman giving police a blow-by-blow account of how he says the fight went down between himself and the florida teen. listen here. >> somewhere around here. and that's when i started screaming for help. i started screaming as loud as i could. then is when he grabbed me. i tried to sit up, and that's when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down. my body was on the ground. my head was on the cement. i felt like my body was on the grass and my head was on the cement an kept slamming and slamming. i kept yelling help, help, help. he put his hands on my nose and his other hand on my mouth and

said shut the [bleep] up. megyn: live from our new york newsroom, gregg? >> reporter: this is zimmerman's written statement that we obtained and it was given to police just hours after the shooting, together with his police interview at station house. he recounts how he called police on a non-emergency line to report a suspicious person we now know was trayvon more continue peering into homes at night. martin vanished from sight. so zimmerman got out much his truck and that's when he claims he was am burden by martin, thrown to the ground and beaten. >> i fell backwards to the side. somehow i ended up on my back with him on top of me. he just kept punching my face and my head. screaming for help. and he told me shut the [bleep]

up. i kept yelling for help. report are also claims martin covered his mouth and nose, trying to stop his breathing. zimmerman with visible injuries to the back of his head and face was take to the scene top reenact what happened. >> somebody here opened the door, i said help me, help me. he said i'll call 911. i said no, help me. i don't know what they did. but that's when my jacket moved up and i had my firearm on my right side. and he saw it. i feel like he say the. he looked at it and said you are going to die [bleep]. and he reached for it dish felt his arm going down to my side. i grabbed it and i shot him one time. i didn't think i hit him. he sat up and said look you got

me. you got it, you got me, you got it. >> reporter: the statement, the police interview and the reenactment all appear to be fairly consistent fan the alleged eyewitness corroborates his account it could bolster his claim that he acted in self-defense. the statement was interesting it was just hours after the incident, megyn. megyn: this is extraordinary to have in a criminal case the defendant on camera speaking to the police, reenact the alleged crime. this is just incredible to me, gregg. >> reporter: he apparently had the interview analyzed or police did with a stress test analyzing system. and he allegedly passed it. but as you know like polygraphs that likely would not be admissible in a court of law. megyn: coming up in a special edition of "kelly's court" we'll show you that entire reenactment

of george zimmerman's version of what he says happened the night he shot and killed trayvon more continue. this is the case as the defense is expected to put it to the jurors. we'll show it to you today. fox news alert on another criminal case getting national attention. the jury in jerry sandusky's sex abuse case now has the case and they have just begun deliberating on 48 counts. in closing arguments prosecutors describe sandusky as a serial child molester who groomed his victims. his defense attorney said the former penn state coach was being victimized by an overzealous prosecutor and greedy accusers. the jury will be sequestered. they will not be allowed to go home until they reach a verdict. the minute we get that news we'll bring it to you.

megyn: from the campaign trail more high-profile democrats are saying they will be no shows at the party's big convention in charlotte this summer. the number is growing. house members, billowens and kathy hokel are the latest to bow out. they join mark chris and a trio of lawmakers leaving empty seats at the big affair in charl, why. what does it mean? is it a big deal, you have half a dozen democrats saying i prefer to spend the time with nikon city went. >> reporter: it can be legit but it smells fishy.

in this case what happened was the democratic national committee rule said -- this was the case in west virginia. if you are coming to the convention you have to declare your preference now for who you are going to do. that would have meant that governor of the west virginia would have to say i support barack obama. the president has we talked about had a tough race with keith judd, a federal state's p. he did pretty well. the president not popular in west virginia, not popular in critz's district in pennsylvania. megyn: even though he's not popular. is this a snub by these democrats? >> reporter: heck, yes, it's a snub. it's on purpose. they are saying i'm a democrat but i'm not a ball democrat. what's different about it is to have it so open that you would

flout the president and say i know you will have your party in charlotte and accept the nomination but i don't want anything to do with that. to release a statement and say i am not going is a snub. it's a way to get distance from the president. megyn: this appears to be the latest in a string of controversies surrounding the democratic national convention scheduled for august-september. first we had republicans tack over in the congress in north carolina. then you have the democratic governor who refused to run again. then you had the state pass the gay marriage ban. they are talking about making bay marriage as part of the party's platform. you have people calling for a boycott. that's impossible because they put tens of millions dollars. now you have top democrats saying i'm not going to go. could this have been avoided?

>> reporter: they probably shouldn't have had the convention in north carolina. at the time they picked it the president was optimistic he would have a big win and he's probably not going to win in a state like north carolina. he probably would have been better off to go someplace where it would be less controversial. cleveland might be good. megyn: why don't they have it in ohio both parties every year. >> reporter: everybody meet in columbus. megyn: why don't they just save themselves the trouble and do it there. carolina the president won by a slim margin last time around. it's like john mccain holding his convention in minnesota. people said why and it turned out to be not a good bet for him either. >> reporter: the danger for the president is this. he never never woo'ed over.

more will follow. there will be more people who come out and look for ways to publicly distance themselves from the president in swing states and that's trouble. megyn: the spokesman for the national republican committee says it's as popular as a trip to the dentist these days. dentistry in modern day america is better than it iced to be. chris, see you. remember when you were a kid? it was traumatic. okay, i'm fine. they play music. okay. the unemployment numbers were higher than expected. but the bigger story is what we found when we looked back over the last month or two. the numbers that are out now are not too good, they are not too

encouraging. we'll show what you they uncovered. new fast and furious fallout. the head of the unions that represent border agents. let's not forget how this whole operation and investigation got started. a border patrol agent was killed and two of these guns involved in this operation "operation fast & furious" were found at the scene. now the head of that border patrol union joins us to tell us why that union wants eric holder to step down now. >> we'll not rest until every single person responsible for all of this, no matter where they are, are brought to justice. man: there's a cattle guard, take a right.

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>> my son and i were very, very close. he believed in justice an believed in telling the truth. he was a man of honor and if

anybody knew him, they knew that. i know he would be saying, you know what? i died for my country, and he was a true american. i think he deserves the truth, and i think everybody should know the truth. if this was a bad thing that they did with fast and furious it should be acknowledged so it never happens to anyone else's son. megyn: that was josephine terry yesterday. she is the mother of murder border agent brian terry. a federal gun running sting allowed guns to walk into the hands of some very bad people in mexico. she is react to the president invoking executive privilege. republicans move a step closer to holding the attorney general

eric holder in contempt for failure to adequately respond those subpoenas, in their view. now the union representing border agents said it has had enough. it is calling for the attorney general to resign. george, welcome to the program. mr. holder said he produced over 7,000 documents. that this has now become political. that he's the one who put a stop to this operation, not the one to initiated it. he blames the bush admin sphraitioner to doing that. why do you believe he needs to go. >> unfortunately the attorney general made it political. he may have turned over 7,000 documents. but the document they are requesting are relevant document to find out who's at fault for this investigation and to hold those parties responsible. megyn: do you believe mr. holder when he says he did not

authorize this operation and none of his top deputies even knew about it with it was underway? >> at this point we are a year and a half into this investigation and i do not believe the attorney general anymore. megyn: why not? >> if he had been honest from the beginning we would not be where we are today. the questions were simple. he needs to turn doimplets and hold those parties responsible. megyn: he issued a statement through his spokesperson saying i know the sacrifices border agents make. i'm the one who ordered the practice stopped. but chairman issa made unfounded allegations and he said the american people deserve better than this. >> does he understand what it is we do? has he reached out to the terry family and apologized for the actions? i don't believe that he has. megyn: he ultimately did call

the terry family after he came under scrutiny for not calling the terry family, i believe. do you feel that he is the person we should be blaming? he is saying it was the phoenix office of atf, and that this was apparently sort of a rogue agency operation and that he has dish want to get the wording correctly, made necessary personnel changes in the department of justice's leadership. >> i moved around a couple of people. ultimately he's america's top cop and he's responsible. he can shift blame to another manager or another office but ultimately it lies with him. that many the reason the national border patrol council is calling for his resignation. megyn: how do you feel about the

contempt vote? >> unfortunately it came to that. it should not have. we have been silent up to this point. we tried to let this play out through the proper channels and it hasn't gotten to that point yet. the terry family has questions that need to be answered. megyn: the white house weighed in on this and i want to give you a bit of what he said. >> at beginning of this year republicans announced one of their chief legislative and strategic priorities was to investigate the administration and damage the president politically. we are nine days away from transportation funding that guarantees jobs for almost a million construction workers because congress has not passed a transportation bill. yet instead of creating jobser to helping the middle class congressional republicans are on

this fishing expedition. >> unfortunately for us and our organization, this isn't about politics it isn't about democrats or republicans. it's about getting to the answers. we are a year and a half into this. if they want to make the argument the republicans are stalling because they don't want these other pieces of legislation passed, i say no. a year and a half ago he had the opportunity to get this taken care of and to date he hasn't. megyn: are you a republican organization? >> no, we are not. we are knobo -- we are non-partisan. we represent the rairntion and file agents in the field. megyn: you called the attorney general's actions a slap in the face to all border agents who serve this country. why did you say that? >> we lost one of our own. agent brian terry was one of our

brothers and we want answers as well. and we deserve those answers. megyn: george, thank you for being here. almost immediately after trayvon martin was shot dead, police took george zimmerman to the scene and asked him to show them what happened. as the cameras roll, we'll show you his version of the events then put it to our lawyers and let you decide in a special "kelly's court." >> he pushed me down and somehow got on top of me. >> on the grass or the cement. >> it was over towards mere. i think i tried to push him away from me. i screamed help, help as loud as i could and he tried to slam my head down. why not make lunch more than just lunch?

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megyn: serious concerns over what to do with an estimated 1.5 million tons of degree heading our way it many coming from the tsunami in japan over a year ago. take a look at this massive dock that just washed up on the west coast. there is a big debate over who should pay for the cleanup. some say it's a local problem. in the end it could be the taxpayers who foot the bill. >> reporter: it many starting to pick up now. this debris field coming this way. it's a widespread and slow-moving disaster, that tsunami happening 15 months ago. 1.5 million tons of debris sent into the pacific ocean and heading this way. it's equal to four empire state

buildings or 800,000 cars. not' starting to arrive on west coast shores. a ghost ship and soccer ball in alaska, a motorcycle in british colombia. megyn: we were afraid that was going to happen. dan as far as we know is fine. but sometimes our satellite doesn't work then we lose our reporters. but we try. do we have him back? no. we tried. how about that. four empire state buildings heading our way. maybe the taxpayers should pay. our apologies for that. the weekly unemployment numbers were higher than expected. but the bigger story is what we found when we looked back the next month or two. up next what we uncovered.

questions about where our economy is going next and what if anything washington can do to fix it. we have a preview to the trial in this case. the defendant has been charged and we'll show you the reenactment and put it to the lawyers in "kelly's court." he put his hand on my nose and his other hand on my mouth and said shut the [bleep] up. i'm squirming because all i could think about when he was hitting my head, that my head was going to explode and i thought it was going to lose consciousness. [ kate ] most women may not be properly absorbing

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yoo-hoo. hello. it's water from the drinking fountain at the mall. [ male announcer ] great tasting tap water can come from any faucet anywhere. the brita bottle with the filter inside. megyn: new signs of a struggling economy and a lousy jobs picture. coming in at 387,000 people filing for unemployment. that does not count those who have given up look. but look at the average number of filings the past four weeks. they say that's a more reliable indicator. what does this say about where our economy is going? joining me now, simon constable. we'll ask him whether i was

right. also mark hannah, former aide to the john kerry and barack obama campaigns. and melissa francis. am i right, simon, the four-week average. that's what you want to look at. >> it goes up and down. there are a lot of factors like big layoffs and seasonal factors and weather. but it's looking bad. we have on the you are other indicateors looking much bleaker than expected. we had feds' forecast. and the only good thing with inflation, nobody will be able to afford anything. megyn: the problem for the president politically on this, mark, it's showing up in the polls.

this is call number two in the control room. the approval rating of president obama handling the economy, total approve, 44. until these job numbers start changing, if we go back to january, can he turn that poll number around? >> i think he can and i think he will. the most immediate thing that congress can do and the president can do is get his jobs bill passed where you will have a million people get back to work. we have one of the most obstructionist congresses we have had in modern history. the president's plan to get firefighters and cops back to work is going to happen. this isn't the president's problem. this is an american problem. what it will come down is to who is going to propose the best

solutions. the president's jobs bill, he proposed all different measures. all you are hearing out of mitt romney is pessimism. megyn: he's not the only one. when you look at polls, right direction-wrong direction. 60% of the american public believe we are going in the wrong direction. so there is pessimism in the country. >> when president obama took office the economy was in a worse shape than it is now. megyn: i want to get to melissa on this. we were doing better in january than we are now. why -- are we likely to continue here or are we likely to be in the january territory anytime soon. >> it feels like it's slowing down and stalling. if you look at what the feds said -- they could be counted on to put lipstick on this pig.

they said they thought unemployment was going to sit at 1.8%. they said sit would be 7.9%. we know that 8% number is a big threshold for the president. a lot of economists i spoke to said that is ambitious. megyn: bernanke was like eore. >> we have europe which is not going to solve itself until the our so breaks up. and we have china basically going towards them. it will get worse here. we'll not be going back to january. president obama has averted an

economic depression. there is a lot of pessimism about the economy. you are seeing home prices, housing builds are going up. ford just hired 5,000 workers. >> no one can afford to buy them. if you look at the total number of people employed from the time he came into office. we are down half a million jobs. we are trying to say -- megyn: i want to tell the viewers this, when asked who you trust to do a better job on the economy, barack obama and mitt romney were almost tide. even though they don't back the president on his economic policies, they trust mr. romney more. maybe not. >> once they get to know in romney, the more you look at his

record from the halls of high continues to the governor massachusetts. as massachusetts governor we were 47 out of 50 states in job creation. mitt romney created more government jobs than private sector jobs. megyn: we have seen the past couple months, they give us this number of the jobs created. why do they keep doing that. a lot of these numbers were downwardly resides. and some are saying there is funny business going on. someone is trying to puff up the numbers. >> i actually called the bureau and said why do you revise? they said we have three reading every month when we do this. when they send the you are advise out to the employers, some employers don't get back to them because they have other things to do like trying to run their business. but they said when they get the

paperwork back they revise. atp report does not get resides. megyn: you are saying it's not political. they are just bad at doing it. megyn: i got to go. megyn: we have got to watch mr. zimmerman reenact the crime on the night in question. this is extraordinary. you never see this in a criminal case. but you will next. a new side in the trayvon martin shooting case. we'll take you to the crime scene where the department george zimmerman describes what he says happened the night he shot trayvon martin. then our lawyers take on the case in "kelly's court." >> after i shot him he like sat up. he was on top of me like this. and i shot him. i didn't think i hit him.

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♪ megyn: a special "kelly's court" in session. the story of what really happened the night trayvon martin died, according to the man who is accused of killing him. police took george zimmerman a volunteer night watchman to the scene to show them what happened. the cameras were rolling. today for the first time we are hearing courtesy of mr. zimmerman's lawyers who released these tapes, his version of the events in his own words. he was about there, but he was walking towards me. like i said. i was already past that so i didn't see exactly where he came from. but he was about [inaudible] i said i don't have a problem. i went to grab my cell phone. i left it in a different pocket.

i look down and he said you have got a problem now. and then was here and he punched me in the face. right up around here. to be honest i don't remember exactly. i stumbled. and i fell down and he pushed me down and somehow got on top of me. >> on the grass or the cement. >> it was more over towards here. i think i was trying to push him away from me. an got on top of me somewhere around here. and that's when i started screaming for help. i started screaming help as loud is a could. and then is when he grabbed me. i tried to sit up an grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down. my body was on the ground.

my head was on the cement. my body was on the grass. that's as best i could feel through my jacket. i felt like my body was on the grass and my head was on the cement. and i kept yelling helping with helping with help. he put his hand on his nose -- my nose and his other hand on my mouth and said shut the [bleep] up. i tried squirming again because all i could think about what he he was hitting my head that my head was going to explode and i thought it was going to lose consciousness. i tried to squirm. he only had a small portion of my head on the concrete. so i tried to squirm off the concrete. when i did that, somebody here opened the door and i said help me, help me. they said i'll call 911. i said, no, help me. i need help.

i don't know what they did. but that's when my jacket moved up and i had my firearm on my right side. my jacket moved up, and he saw it -- i feel like he say the, he looked at it and he said you are going to die night [bleep]. he reached for it -- i felt his arm going down to my side. i grabbed it and i grabbed my firearm and shot one time. >> after you shot him what did he say? >> after i shot him he like sat up -- >> [inaudible] you are on the grass? he's on top of me like this. i shot him. i didn't think i hit him' he saw the and said, you got me, you got it, something like that. so i thought he was just saying i know you have a gun now i heard it, i'm giving up. i pushed him off me or he fell off me, either way i got on top

of him and pushed his arms apart. >> did you flip him over? >> i don't remember. i got him on his back and moved his arms apart. when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head i thought he had something in his hands. so i moved his hand apart. >> you had him face down? >> yes, and i was on his back. then somebody came with a flashlight, and i thought it was a police officer. so i said, are you police? i still had my hands out. i said are you the police? my gun's right here. he said i'm calling the police. >> i said don't call the police help me restrain this guy. he said i'm calling the police. i said i already called they are on their way, they are coming. i need your help. that's when the police officer came around. i saw the police officer.

so i stood up and showed him the weapon. he said who shot him? and i said i did. megyn: joining me now david wahl and mark eiglarsh. this strays ordinary. have you ever seen anything like this? >> compelling unbelievable game-changing day for all of us. i actually now can envision a jury acquitting this guy, assuming there is no blockbuster evidence we don't know about that somehow pulls major holes into his case. i can't imagine that anyone if they are being intellectually honest who would feel someone can't use deadly force under the facts and circumstances he related, assuming them to be true. megyn: assuming them to be true is the critical phrase. that's a jury's job. he will get on the stand and give this same account. trayvon martin con fronted him, trayvon martin threw the first

punch. trayvon martin put his hand on zimmerman's nose and mouth and said shut the [bleep] up. trayvon martin said you are going to die night m fer. if that is true, is there any question but he will be acquitted? >> from the prosecutor's perspective they will say he lied under oath. he's not an objective third party witness who observed something. he's the defendant. the defendant is giving a story to avoid getting prosecuted because he just shot someone. he has to take the stand. he can't just play this videotape in front of jury. when he takes the stand evidence of his perjury will come initer from the first hearing when bail was decided or the second hearing when he has to testify to get out of jail.

megyn: let many put that to the side. we'll argue about credibility. he's not an objective witness. he has a force in this race. but who is? there is no independent third party witness who can tell us as far as we know, who started the fight, who threw the first punch or whether it's true about the dialogue being heard between the men. i know of no party that can speak to any of that. there is only one, and that's trayvon's girlfriend who by phone claims she heard zimmerman first approach trayvon martin. >> you are dead on. the bottom line is as they tell you, the first pirate will tell you dead men don't telltales. very continue. i'm shoe trayvon martin would have a different version of the facts whether they be truthful or not.

those critical facts can only be disputed by someone who is no long were us. there will nobody eyewitnesses that can contradict what happened. his theory of fear of great bodily harm. megyn: how does the jury -- we'll have the girlfriend testifying it was zimmerman who confronted trayvon. isn't that reasonable doubt? >> on its face absolutely. it will come down to one key witness' credit tbilt, zimmerman's. based on the fact that he hid the second passport he didn't tell the judge about. if the judge find this relevant and the prosecutor can impeach with those facts, then if the jury doesn't believe the one key witness zimmerman, then they could convict. megyn: i know you want to weigh in on that.

we'll hold court over. there is a lot more to discuss. we'll play more sound bites from the interrogation. stay with us. ♪ why not make lunch more than just lunch? with two times the points on dining in restaurants, you may find yourself asking why not, a lot.

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megyn: mark, you were going to say? >> it would be a miscarriage of justice for this judge to take what happened as a result of the conspiracy, to lie about the bond and disregard his testimony as to what happened on that night. megyn: it goes to credibility. >> it should not be intro dmiewsd front of the jury because it's more prejudicial than probative. in the criminal system the judge is used to being misled. he can compartmentalize. he did put zimmerman back in

jail. does the evidence support what he's saying? yes. unless there is a witness blows him out of the water, that's what you have got. megyn: is there something on this tape a why trayvon caught his interest to begin with? >> he didn't look like he was in a rush to get out of the rain. he looked like he was hard-core physical exercising, that he was in the rain. he looked out of place from what they taught us. in the neighborhood watch. megyn: he looked hard-core, exercising physical. he looked out of place from what they taught us in neighborhood watch. >> young black males profiling, that could come in to damage him. he has to take the witness

expand in this case. there is no way around it. if the defense calls the police officers -- >> on second thought i have got to say if these tapes as we saw were produced by police officers, the defense may be able to call their officers to the stand, establish a foundation for those tapes and play them to the jury because zimmerman has an amendment right not to testify. that puts him unavailable. megyn: couldn't that shep george zimmerman? >> it could. >> what david is leaving out is a portion of his handwritten confession. in august 2011, six months before this shooting, his neighbor was subjected to armed home invasion robbers. and the on reason why they didn't attack him continuously was because cops came. that is what was in his mind. megyn: gentlemen, thank you for

your legal take on it. we'll be right back. ears? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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