business and reasonably priced generous. >> that should help you make millions. our job is done here. david with forbes on fox. >> we owe you. you shouldn't be vilified. you provide the safe neighbors and good schools and school lunch program and you provide the hospital and day care and you provide the ability of people to live a decent life. we owe you. >> fired up vice-president joe biden saying that we owe public union workers for the work they do. here's what federal government workers actually make compared to private sector workers. we don't owe them. they owe us the taxpayers. i am david asbin. we'll go with steve, and

elizabeth and rich and victoria and rick and john. a full house today. steve, who owes you what? >> everyone appreciates what firefighters do and police officer and teachers should do. that's what they get paid for. in terms of benefits and abuse of overtime and pay determined not what the market will pay but purely political muscle and costs spin out of control. >> rick, you know, obviously we appreciate the work public sector workers do. we are paying them and some cases they get more than we do. >> i don't think the vice-president implied otherwise. i think when he said we owe them thanks that steve correctly just talked about. i owe each and one of you for letting me have fun every saturday morning. i don't think i owe you money though. you have to stick to what he was talking about.

>> emac, he was sort of reacting to folks who are concerned about the disparity of public sector are getting over private sector workers. >> here's the deal. we don't begrudge good teachers and fire men and cops. they were exempt in the wisconsin battle. but board of education and town supervisor who get their own cadillac and parking spaces. you can ride a bike and not hit anybody on a work day. that is an issue . government bloat because of the three bubbles. basically the federal government is at the same size and bigger than the recession hit. >> victoria do we owe them or do they owe us? >> unfortunate thing right now, current firefighters for example are taking the heat for plans that were enacted decades ago and pensions that

were collected for decades. a story in san jose and a firefighter was in line in the grocery store with a steak. nice that you can afford that steak with my money. we have gone too far. a fire man should be able to get a steak for his family. it is the past pensions that need to be looked at. that did happen in california. and we can't get confused with hey, show up and do a job, but disconnect is too great where 90 percent of the government workers getting nice full pensions compared to 18 percent of the private sector. >> rich, it is those past promiseless that cause the problem and not current reality. >> i disagree with my good friend vicki on this. in california, police department are notorous for policemenn loading their last three years of employment with all kinds of overtime to set the bar high for the pension

payments. they do a lot of double dipping in a sneaky way. they retire and take on a new yob with a different title to have two pensions it is outrageous. a policemen in fresno, who made $250,000 in overtime. how do you figure that? >> it is still going on according to rich. this is not based on what happened in the past. it is still happening. >> it is happen we are entirely too soft on vice-president biden. this reminds of governments do not create job. they tax and borrow from the private sector to create jobs that offer more and benefits and vacation. how we owe them. no, they should be thanking us and grateful to the taxpayers for allowing them to live nice lives at our expense often for doing very well. >> steve forbes. you are not too soft on

critizing vice-president biden. >> the bottom line, the states and musnis palities where you will get blow ups in terps of bankruptcy, david has to do with benefits and health care benefits and we have op-ended and no cost at all . don't fund pension fund and allows abuse of overtime and benefits and double dipping and triple dipping and things spin out of the control. bottom line, it is not the task or begridge them will to do that. but you don't overpay and abuse the taxpayer. >> how do you deal with contracts that simply can't be met. it made promises that couldn't be fulfilled and how do you deal with those contracts. it is clearly a problem. you run into all sorts of crazy legal issues. contracts are contracts and we have an obligation to honor

the contracts. john, i hope you never have a fire at your house and i mean that. you can't vilify the guys who are doing an important job. it is a discussion that needs to be had about how we pay these people and the things that are going on, but not vilify people doing dangerous work for our benefit. >> john, your chance to respond? >> wait a second. they get pensions that we don't get. they get far more vacation. >> it is dangerous work. >> they clearly get paid more and the effort they expend matches what they get paid and the benefits. >> tell that to a family of fallen police officers. >> i want to ask about contracts. we have seen contracts violated in the past by president obama for example, emac, remember the gm bond holders who were supposed to get paid off.

he gave it to the unions and took it awifrom the people who held contracts. >> and then the unsecured creditors became the bad guys. the issue of the contracts is an important one. they are writing government accountability off and you can change pension plann for government workers and the state municipal levels and change the structure of it. it is already happening. and steve? >> the bottom line of having trabs parency and what you are contracting for. states and musnis palities don't know the liabilitis and they bail them up. >> contract issues test in san diego and where voters voted in a pension freeze for the next few years. that was not written in the contract. >> good point. >> voters are saying we need to scrap the contracts. >> rich, will we see more of

these new contracts like in california and what happened in wisconsin? >> well, you have to. i don't see how you can honor a contract based on false information f. you had a contract based on the idea that the earth was flat. is that inn forceable contract? that is a return of 8, 10, 12 and percent and that is impossible in a world where bonds are paying less than two percent. >> and i am sure we'll hear from the flat worlders and they will send their e-mails in. forget about the public. private sector pensions in the u.s. are starting to look like greece. we'll explain. and up next, right here, corporations and businesses like criminals and you will unshackle the economy. that is a message from a powerful ceo to folks inside of the beltway, is he right or wrong?

especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

good morning, everyone . great to have you live in america's news headquarters and i am jamie colby. a major storm developing in the gulf of mexico. look at the radar map. forecasters said an 80 percent chance of becoming a tropical depression or tropical storm named debby in the next 48 hours. for now most of the region is dealing with heavy rainfall. we'll keep a close eye on it in our weather center. jerry sandusky likely to spend his life in prison after sexually abusing 10 young boys. sandusky was immediately taken to jail last night . sentencing will be three months from now . his lawyers say they plan to appeal. i will see you again at 1:00 p.m. eastern on these fox news

channel. >> the same week major u.s. banks got downgraded in part over costly government regulations. one ceo said regulators are making companies guilty until proven innocent. and this is the the head of boeing. is this grounding jobs right now? >> it is. it is not just boeing which was heckled by the administration for trying to open up the plant in south carolina to make the 787. it is every ceo from small businesses and to the large. on the margin, they are just not investing as much as possible and not hiring as much as possible. they are kind of in a soft employer trike is what we are seeing because of the uncertainty of all of the regulations and it is taking two points off of the economy. and we are having a two percent growth of economy.

>> mike, does it have that much affect on the economy? >> a study by the heritage administration pointed out in president obama's first few years they extracted on average 46 billion out of the economy and almost five times as much as his predecessor costs with new regulations . people have to remember it is not the number of regulations the administration imposes, it is how big of an impact. obama care and dodd-frank. together they can impact 30 percent of the economy. >> dodd-frank. we saw the downgrade and is there a connection between the downgrade and lack of job growth and regulation. >> i am so not buying heritage foundation also poigned out that it is difficult to quantify what regulations do to savistries, like the ones that got pushed through on getting rid of the e-coli

bacteria that saves the meat industry a lot of money. realistic. look at the cost of the regulation over a genation of presidents including this one they come out roughlyy the same. we see that through the end of last year, obama administration has five percent fewer regulations than the bush administration. did cost a bit more. but adjust for inflation, they work out roughly the same. >> hold on. steve, epa, right now, is fining over 6 million gas distributors because they didn't mix in a certain kind of biofuel that doesn't exist outside of a coim of labratories and companies are suing for not having something that doesn't exist. >> it is not just so-call would cost of regulation. it is things that are prevented. coal industry and natural gas want to export and they can't get the licenses to do so.

that costs 10s was billions and dodid-- dodd frank. and banks are going to have to report i.r.s. deposits made by nonresidents people. 3.7 trillion and democrats are saying that goes through hundreds of billions leaving our shores and make it weaker. >> and boeing ceo. he's not just the ceo . a lot of businesses come in with their data and they see direct results of the regulations inhibiting job growth. >> by the way, dodd-frank, it doesn't hit them yet. here's the issue under the pressure, 194 big rural cost. and were passed way more than under jw bush. that is a record.

and so we are talking about is congress and white house continuually outsourcing the fine print to the unelected bureaucracy and government rules factryy in all of the rules agencies that is passing rules upon rules and giving and worsening the financial heart attack. >> morgan, i saw rick shaking hotdogs head no. >> i agree with steve. i think regulation are a piece of the larger pie that is creating uncertainty and preventing the jobs from being created. i look at it from a location standpoint. you want to know where the biggest economic growth and jobs are created. look at the cities where it is happening. they have loose regulation policy. texas is a gareying example. houston had 8.6 percent economic point rate and that rivals china and expected to create 250,000 jobs. >> rick, how do we argue with

that. evidence mounts up that those citis and states that have fewer regulations have greater jobs? >> yeah, i got to argue with a few things actually. first of all look for record costs was regulations, do you know who holds the one year record for most regulation. would you believe the first president bush and he barely beat out president ronald reagan. and i have to ask steve. youu the banks in miami are freaking out about off shore money coming n where is that coming from? why miami? that's weird. >> it is all around the count radio . people from venezuela like to deposit money in the u.s.. they don't have to pay tax. but under the new regulation they will with draww those fund and that's why democrats and republicans say this thing has to go. three trillion could leave the shores. >> we are run out of the time.

get this. unemployed college grads are suing their school because they can't find a job. why is someone here saying this is good news? it is a flipp side and you will hear more right after this. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.

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>> so you thought passing the bar was the toughest challenge for lawyers, try finding a legal job in this economy and a group of jobless graduates

are suing their colleges. they say that law schools were not telling the truth about job opportunities after they graduate and their lawsuits may help all stunes. why is it good to have a lawsuit. >> real problem not that they are misleading students, but not training them to be real-world lawyers . the problem with that. the law if i weres don't want to train them to help them learn things in law school. if they wanted to provide value. scrap the third yearr and incorporate clinical train so they graduate with skills they can use. >> lawsuit is a good thing. and if you go to law school and expect to have a job that the school. >> i have a bridge to no where. it is fund amtmentally shaped

by the web. and you can get apps and a law straw rise in india where you pay them $30,000 to a year inted of 300,000. it has ready started. >> and lawyers suing law schools. there is something wrong about that it sounds like. >> you don't appreciate the irony? >> it is ironic. i don't want to have to appreciate it. >> everybody is right today. look ky has it right. i went to law school and there was nothing in the brochure that i looked at that guaranteed me a job. but the last year and half of law school is a waste of time and only there to get my money. i could have passed the bar after a year and half. take that time and do what ki said. give me practical application.

and law work is moving off shore to india every kay. >> victoria. i know you are crying crocodile tears for lawyerrs. this decade there will be four law school graduates for every one job in the field. the jobs are drying up. >> there is it a huge supply and demand mismatch that is building. that was arcticles in 200divide pointing it out they were not getting law jobs and historically people who graduate from law school don't become lawyers. i agree with all of you just like rick does. but the schools will not change in response. they will just hire more lawyers to deal with the lawsuits and that pushes up the cost. >> going back to basics, is it a bad thing that legal jobs are drige up. >> no, if we get less tort lawyers that would be great for the economy. and i the obama

administration's biggest donor groups, lawyers is waking toupt real economy. obama economy stirchings. >> mike hit on something. >> high court verdict on the health care law could be two days away. who is ready to prost when the ruling comes down, next. good morning! wow. want to start the day with something heart healthy and delicious? you're a talking bee...

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forget about the politics after the health care law verdict. morgan which wins if the man date stays >> i saw humana. it pays a dividend and under valued. >> humana lowered the profit outlook. >> and what wins if the court rules against the mandate. >> johnson and johnson. it has a solid balance sheet . earnings growing and sweet