>> jeanine: tonight on "justice" what is wrong with kids today? how could the merciless taunting and humiliation of a 68-year-old bus monitor by a group of middle schoolers even happen? but does this foreshadow a cultural decline in our society? and then, he had everything to live for. young, handsome, about to go to college and the world at its feet. it came to a crashing end in a hail of gunfire last weekend. >> the person who knows something about this crime, just think about it this way. the next victim could be the family member of yours. and this might be the person who commits that violent act. >> jeanine: hello and welcome to

"justice." i'm judge jeanine pirro, the country has been gripped by the video of a bus monitor being bullied and threatened by a group of soulless, heartless brats! she was doing her job when the 68-year-old bus monitor became a target of vicious insults, verbal assaults and bullying. >> they had been disrespectful. it was nothing like munld monday. >> the video went viral and a firestorm erupted. support for klein was immediate. a trip to disney world. a rally to support her. and over $500,000 in donations. >> all the people that have sent me messages have been wonderful. they make me feel so loved. >> jeanine: the town did its best spin control in response to the national outrage.

>> these past few days have been challenging to say the least. overall, i think we need to look at it from the positive side, the fact that an overwhelming majority of our students in our community go about their business on a day-to-day, enjoy life, participate in school and we're very, very proud of them. >> jeanine: but what does this say about kids these days? >> i think one of the causes of it is the fact that kids can use facebook, their cell phones and other means of contact without being face to face and do all kinds of things. >> jeanine: some think parents are to blame. >> i've seen a decline in civility with adults. i've had school board members walk out on me when i was president of the board. i've had members of the public swear at me. i've had people threaten me. and for the last several years, i have seen a decline in civility and one of my concerns is that the adults are not

setting a good example. >> jeanine: as for punishment, she is taking the high road. >> i don't know what punishment they should get. i don't want to press charges. a lot of people think i'm crazy probably but i don't know. they're seventh graders! you know. and i can't -- i just can't see doing that. >> jeanine: with me now from rochester, new york is police captain chief chatterton. thanks so much for being with us this evening. >> pleasure to be here. thank you. >> jeanine: captain, are you surprised at all the attention this case has gotten? >> you know, judge, i got to say on wednesday morning at about 5:30 in the morning, 6:00 in the morning, i got a text on this and i would have never known that it it was going to become this because when i first got that text, i had no idea what the sergeant was talking about. we had a meeting inquiry about a you tube video. >> jeanine: captain, what are you doing now? are you still investigating this

case? >> we are not done investigating the case. as i'm sure you're aware on thursday, i believe it was, the -- mrs. klein decided that she didn't want to prosecute the case. we continued forward with it. and there was some legal problems with the case as to get to a misdemeanor. however, we're still working with the juvenile prosecutor's office. we've consulted with the county district attorney's office. we have a great relationship with them. but right now -- >> jeanine: look, captain, the district attorney's office can't handle this. these kids are 12 and 13. so i guess the question -- the question would be whether or not there will be a family court proceeding against these young kids? >> you know, and that's what we're still waiting for. and you're correct on they can't handle the -- because of the 13 but we have a great relationship as to whether a crime has been committed and that's what we've been consulting with them and looking for their opinion. do you feel it reaches this level? >> jeanine: isn't it true it

could be prosecuted in the family court as violations? >> you know, violations are not prosecuted. i don't know if it's different where you are, but in monroe county, we do not prosecute violations in family court. >> jeanine: the fact that we're dealing with here indicates that it's a violation of harassment as well as disorderly conduct. it's not a crime. it's a violation. now, i sat as a family court judge. and i was a district attorney. this case can go through the family court. there isn't a hell of a lot more you've got to do. it is on tape. so as far as i'm concerned, this is a case that the whole country is interested in. the kids have to be made accountable. and karen klein said i don't want them to go to jail but she specifically said on national television, i want the boys punished but i don't know how. so now the issue is what is available to her? family court is available. supervision is available and when the school says, oh, we'll deal with this in september, you know, justice delayed is justice denied!

why wouldn't we just put this off to probation given that case, make them accountable and provide a mechanism to track these kids? there is a juvenile prosecutor, right? in monroe county? >> yes, absolutely. we're working with the juvenile prosecutor. but what i also have to point out is you're wrong on one point, though, the school is not waiting until -- until the fall to dish out the punishment. we're told that's going to happen this week. >> jeanine: great, if that's the case, i'm happy to be wrong. i'm going off published reports that they're going to wait until school. here's what i think. what do you think should happen to these kids, captain? >> you know, i don't want to give my opinion. i have my opinions, obviously. we are outraged by the video. we -- our chief of police actually is out of country but just before he left, he said make sure we charge these kids, you know, a crime if we can charge them with a crime. >> jeanine: this is a clearcut case. you know what? i don't for one minute deny that you guys have to be inundated by this but what we've got to do is

make sure this case is tracked in the family court and there is some supervision of these kids. nobody wants this case to fall through the cracks and i totally believe you, captain, when you say you're working on it. but you know what? tell the higher ups whether it's in the courts or in the attorney's office or anywhere else, this case is a clear-cut case based upon the video. more than that, you don't need anything. let's get these kids in supervision and get them off the bus at the very least and make sure they never ride a bus again but let's make sure that this doesn't happen again and the way to do that is to make them accountable. captain, i want to thank you so much for being with us. we will get out everything that you said tonight to make sure that people understand that you guys are still on this case. it is not over. justice hopefully will be delivered and stay in touch with us. i'm happy to help out wherever i can on this one. >> we appreciate your input and i believe justice will be served in the long run. it's just going to take a little bit of time.

>> jeanine: you got it. all right, captain chatterton from the police department. thank you. brandy hall was a well loved volunteer firefighter and then she disappeared. her case went cold. but a new detective believes he will find her. he's with us tonight to talk to us. and the last minutes of marlee lyon's life caught on tape. police want to know who gunned down this young man? [ gnome ] enjoying your holiday? ooo no. the hotel lost our reservation. nonsense! you book at travelocity, your reservation's guaranteed. well, i did not book with travelocity, okay?!? [ female announcer ] get the travelocity guarantee any way you book, including our new app. you'll never roam alone.

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>> jeanine: we continue with the story of the abuse of the bus monitor. joining us, the honorable marjorie fields, retired supervising judge of the family court. dr. robby ludwig, psychotherapist, criminal defense attorney and joey jackson, former prosecutor, criminal defense attorney. all right, judge fields. you are probably more familiar

with new york law than most other people to say the least since you wrote a lot of those laws. what else can be done here? >> children can be sent to the family court. a summons can be issued for their parents to bring them there. police could bring them to the family court but they couldn't be arresting them in this case. compel them to go. but once they get to family court, they would see the probation office and the probation office can screen the case, provide services and if the children comply with those services, which can be community service, attending counselling sessions and then the case won't go into the court. >> ok. there won't be a hearing or if they don't comply, probation can send the case to be filed by the county attorney in the family court. >> jeanine: so we don't need to prosecute this case as a crime. the very nature of this disorderly conduct harassment, you agree with that, right? >> it's not a crime. >> jeanine: it's a violation but a clear violation of the law of new york that can go to family court, correct?

>> yes. children's behavior is not criminal but it is -- it needs to be controlled and it needs to be supervised and they need to learn and that's what the family court is there to do, there to provide services, education, help the children find a more constructive way to behave. >> jeanine: so when the victim in this case says i don't want them to go to jail but i want them punished. family court seems to be the appropriate venue for this case. >> not really punishment but services. but yes, i'm sure that's what she has in mind when she says she wants them to be punished and she wants them to be trained, educated, given an opportunity to learn another way. >> jeanine: so the feeling, judge, that these -- that the -- that this case and the movement of this case depends upon karen klein is not an accurate one. >> no, karen klein's testimony if it were ever needed would be much further down the road if it were a family court, juvenile delinquency, case pending and her testimony would be needed

but they have the video, too. i don't know. >> jeanine: the thing speaks for itself. lawyers? >> absolutely. >> jeanine: all right. now her testimony in family court if there were a trial. it doesn't have to get there. i'm going to give you one here. they say, well, you know, maybe she wasn't harassed, annoyed or alarmed. hello, she says she was crying, right? >> absolutely. community services is appropriate in this case. community service should be basically klein. let them clean the house. let them do other things because she is the victim and let them see this is what the price you have to pay. >> i have other thoughts, judge. this is a teachable moment not only for these children but for children in general. what type of society are we coming to? i think number one, i'm not with jail, it will turn them into criminals>> jeanine: they can't go to jail. >> you can't suspend. kids need to be in school. i am with community service but not specifically to her. let them work with other people. let them be sensitive to older people. let them develop the skills that are necessary to get along and

to not engage in the abhorrent conduct ever again. >> jeanine: you know what bill is basically saying, you know what? let them go to her and make them believe they are sorry. >> they apologized to her. >> jeanine: some of them did. >> some of them did. let them manifest the apology by doing something physical. let them do hard work and let them get the benefit of it. >> jeanine: dr. ludwig, we got you here. there was teasing in middle school but nothing like this. the imagery of, i want to put a knife through you. it will go through you like butter. where is this coming from? >> i think kids have always been aggressive but right now, we're documenting it. we can see it. we have kids documenting it and putting it on you tube. so there's a humiliation factor so the object of the people who are being bullied are being humiliated. they can't escape from it. it's 24/7. it's on facebook. it's on twitter. it's on you tube. >> jeanine: when you were a kid, you were 13. i was 13. i never heard anybody talk like this? threatening her.

>> i think what's so shocking here is not only the way they handled that. most of the time when we hear about bullying, it's usually to appear here, it doesn't break a boundary and that's in part why i think it's so shocking. >> jeanine: you saw horrible things, i don't want to go through this. >> we didn't see this kind of behavior. first of all, mostly new york city kids take the subway or the public bus to school. some of this has to do with -- you're in new york city vs. upstate but i like the idea of the children going and working in an old people's facility. >> didn't she handle herself and comport herself so wonderfully amongst so much humiliation? when a person would be expected to pop, say something. she took it and further more, she said i'm not even going there to press charges about it. >> i wonder whether or not the venue of it, where it happened on a school bus, all of these

kids could get 12 and 13-year-olds, i wonder if it was this one kid, this one kid would have done it. i think it's peer pressure that basically enlisted. >> i know. there's a social contagion factor where kids follow other kids. >> jeanine: now for my thoughts. bullied to tears? a 68-year-old woman. are you kidding? a person in authority. someone in charge? there to keep order among middle schoolers, cursed out, told she'd be robbed and raped? whether it's an increase in bullying or a decline in civil itd, kids are showing less and less respect. they're more abusive and insensitive all of which contributes to the perception of chaos and lawlessness among this generation. i am tired of hearing that middle schoolers are simply more prone to bullying. or that a mob mentality is the excuse for this outrageous

behavior. the reason for this behavior, the kids who make the decisions to behave like this. so why do they do it? they do it because they can. they do it because they haven't learned that they can't. i blame them and i blame their parents. we simply don't punish our kids appropriately. we don't hold them accountable. we're too busy with our own lives to focus on parenting. what is it about our culture that allows such disrespect of our elders when other societies reward, respect and revere them? it's a simple proposition really. you plant a seed. and you don't tend to the garden, the weeds will take over. these parents are now reaping what they sowed and unfortunately, so were the rest of us. do you have something to say? e-mail me at justice at foxnews.com and twitter at judge

jeanine. i want to hear what you have to say on this one. my thanks to our great panel. thanks for being with us. and now, a young man with a promising future killed in cold blood. up next, the investigation into the murder of 17-year-old marley lion. this is the last time brandy hall was seen. what happened to this firefighter after she left work remains a mystery.

>> jeanine: marley lion just graduated from high school. last saturday night, he went to a party. after the party, the teen pulled over because he couldn't continue driving. what happened next in the lot of

famous joes in charleston, south carolina, is both shocking and horrifying. a man walks up to his car, shoots and kills the teen. marley's two best friends, matthew and john jamieson join me from charleston. thank you so much for being with us tonight, guys. i can't imagine what this is like. how are you guys doing? >> i mean, we're all right, as you can -- as all right as you can be right now. just kind of in a bad situation. >> jeanine: well, how are you feeling, matthew? it's the combination of angry and sad. it's just -- i mean, there's no like good way to deal with it. but we're doing all right. we've been hanging out with a lot of friends and trying to take it slow but -- >> jeanine: i know it's difficult. marley was your friend. tell us what he was like, matthew? >> he was just like a larger than life person.

he was almost 6'4" and he had a really charismatic personality. everybody liked him. he got the superlative for the funniest but at the same time, he was like a really driven and really mature person. he wasn't just like crazy and ridiculous all the time and so he was really well rounded and he was our best friend. >> jeanine: you guys are on your way to college. but when was the last time you guys were with marley? >> actually the night of. he was hanging out with us the night of actually the killing so we like left our house at 7:30 and that was the last time we saw them. >> jeanine: when you hung out with him that last night, what did you guys do? >> just hung out. we were playing music and stuff. >> playing guitar. >> jamming in my living room. >> jeanine: in the living room, is that what you're saying? >> yes, ma'am. >> jeanine: why did you separate? were you going to spend the

night together or were you going to go out and go to a party? what happened? why did you separate? >> well, we weren't really doing anything but marley had -- there was a girl named katie who he'd recently reconnected with and they knew each other freshman here and she invited them to a party that we didn't know the people there and we didn't know the katie girl so we let marley go off on his own. he was going to a party and we hung out at john's and didn't really do anything. >> jeanine: you hear that he is shot. what was your reaction? >> shock. i didn't really believe it until actually i called matt and it was kind of a -- i don't know. kind of surreal. still hasn't fully -- i don't think it's actually fully hit us yet. >> jeanine: what did the police tell you happened? >> well, actually, i talked to the detectives that morning because i woke up to marley's mom calling me and telling me that he had been shot and then i immediately talked to the detective who was assigned to the case and he basically just

said that he was shot in the parking lot by a man and that was two suspects because one man walked through the parking lot beforehand but i had no idea why that would have happened or anything like that. i heard he was shot. >> jeanine: all right, guys. this is a delicate situation. marley told police before he died that he had pulled into the light behind famous joe's because he was too drunk to drive home. had you ever known marley to be in a situation like this before? >> no, not really. like i said, he was normally like a responsible kid. >> he never liked to drive drunk and party or anything. i don't know. he just made a dumb decision. >> jeanine: well, but was that parking lot on his way home from the party that he had gone to? >> yes, ma'am, we think so, yes, ma'am. >> jeanine: ok. all right. matthew and john, i want to thank you for joining us and our

thoughts and our prayers go out to both you guys and to the family of marley. all right. up next, our panel is going to take a look at this case of marley lion. and then 32-year-old mother of two vanishes. could an argument with another man's wife be the lead that the detectives need to solve this 6-year-old case? if you have copd like i do, you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd iludes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiva helps corol my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell yr doctor if you have kidy problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva.

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"justice with judge jeanine." >> jeanine: welcome back. our panel discussing the marley lion case. dr. michael baden, forensic pathologist, attorneys joey jackson and bill aronwold and retired lieutenant detective steve rogers. all right, guys. you saw it on the video. it's a cold blooded murder or so it seems. they didn't steal anything. why did they do it? >> this turns my stomach, judge. this is an absolute outrage.

this is a 17-year-old child who is involved in multiple sports and everything. he didn't deserve to die like this and certainly someone needs -- >> jeanine: no one does! we try to make sense of this. >> there could be another theory here. outside the box. one, it looks like a crime of opportunity but the question i had, was it a possible gang initiation and i believe that the police may be looking into that because when you see that second figure, that second individual walk by, one has got to wonder if they play into it. >> jeanine: very interesting. >> it could be that he ran into these people before the shooting and they basically followed him there and maybe got into an argument with them. maybe they just had an opportunity of revenge. we don't know. >> jeanine: you know, we don't know anything that to be the case. he is 11 miles from home. it sounds like a classic case of the kid and underaged drinking and he's too tired. >> when did he realize he was too drunk to drive? >> jeanine: why did he stop there is what you're saying? >> unless he was so tired, he stopped. if he thought he was too drunk to drive, when did it first hit him?

>> i like to figure he's being responsible. at all moments, we tend to be tired and unfortunately, he fell asleep in the wrong place and as a result, he lost his life. >> jeanine: dr. baden, what will the autopsy tell you? s>> the autopsy will tell a lot. often in these cases, the perpetrator puts the fingers on the door or window pane. >> jeanine: didn't he put his hands on the door? >> yes, i think so. often in these kinds of cases, there's trace evidence that especially fingerprints are easily found and there's also in the autopsy itself, of course, the ballistics will get the bullets to see if they've been involved in other criminal activities. what was his blood alcohol level? did he have any drugs? they are going to be very important in evaluating if indeed he had been drinking. of course, the issue -- >> jeanine: he admits it, i was drinking too much and i pulled over because i was so tired! >> they have to prove it's true. people sometimes aren't actually doing what they say so that the -- definitely will be toxicology

done to evaluate what was in his system. if he had -- remember, he had been stopped a couple of weeks earlier given a summons for smoking marijuana in his car or something. >> jeanine: that has nothing to do with it here. he's a victim. >> there's two issues. issue number one is who did it. issue number two is why? the easier question is going to be who did it because you have all the forensic incident. as to why it was done, that's something you never know. >> it goes back to the theory of gang initiation. i understand there's a lot of fwun gunfire in this area. >> jeanine: what we've got is this is a bad area of town, no doubt about it and it's his misfortune. video showed he had pulled into that area for like a minute. there wasn't any other contact with anyone else. >> which means they could have been waiting for anyone to go in there. that's how these gangs operate. they'll wait for a crime of opportunity. >> if it's your unlucky day, unfortunately. >> unfortunately. >> at 4:00 in the morning, though, not too many people are going to stop there and part of

it would be if they have a good chance, a very good chance of finding the people -- the person involved, they have video, they have other crime in that area. when they get the person involved, then they'll have a much better chance of finding out why it happened, how it happened. but if there was an interaction, if they knew each other because usually, they say -- >> jeanine: there doesn't seem to be that, doctor. >> it doesn't make any sense that somebody is going to walk over to a car and for no reason, pull out a gun and -- your honor, i believe that the person of interest in that video, just based on my own experience in investigating cases like this may have been the signal guy. that's why the police need that person. >> first person to walk across. >> the other issue not just the surveillance but what the doctor was referring to. if you have the touching and potential d.n.a., potential fingerprints, you can match it with the physical evidence and get the person. >> i think they'll get the

person. the issue is going to be did they know each other before? and that -- that will be -- they'll be able to resolve it. >> jeanine: all right, guys. what does it tell you that the guys that came up to marley's car were on foot? what does that tell you? it tells me they're from the neighborhood. >> they probably live in the area as many of these shooters in that area live. and you go back to ballistics, as far as evidence, what is the, for lack of a better term, weapon of choice in that area? you'll find that ballistics is going to tell the police what weapon was used and if there are a lot of gang members using that same type. >> jeanine: not only that what weapon was used but they can do ballistic fingerprints. explain that. >> they're going to examine the bullet. they're going to examine the shell casing and that will actually bring them back to the type of gun and then the police will go and try to find out where that gun originated and look at its history. >> jeanine: last thought? >> judge, if they're from the neighborhood, that makes it more likely that they're going to be uncovered. they're going to be caught. and ultimately, the family will get justice. >> jeanine: you know what else?

you have crimestoppers and i know we have a crimestopper number here right at the bottom of the screen. that is going to cause someone hopefully to make a phone call. anyway, i want to thank our great panel tonight. and now, the mystery behind the disappearance of brandy hall. even though the mother of two disappeared six years ago, police believe they can solve this case.

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>> jeanine: six years ago, brandy hall was last seen at her firehouse. the mother of two was never heard from again. her truck was pulled from a pond. and d.n.a. tests show a significant amount of hall's blood in her truck. but no body has been recovered. detective ernie ebil with the palm bay police department. thank you for being with us this evening. >> thanks for having me, judge. >> jeanine: her vehicle and her belongings are in various locations found different years. can you give us a quick rundown of what happened here, detective? >> well, the last time they saw brandy was on august 17th, 2006, at the fire station. the next day, a fisherman found her fire gear floating in a lake in palm bay. and about a mile and a half, two

miles from the fire station, they searched the area, couldn't find anything. they sent a dive team in and found her truck submerged in the lake. the next year, in june of 2007, some people fishing in the county about 40 miles south of palm bay found a backpack belonging to brandy in that canal. >> jeanine: all right. so detective, what we've got is we've got brandy missing in 2006. her truck is found the next day. can you tell us what an examination of that truck showed or proved? >> it proved it was intentionally in that area. there were two different windows were down. the vehicle was probably pushed in there. and submerged. we did find a good amount of blood in the vehicle. the d.n.a. of the blood did prove it was her blood but no body was ever found.

>> jeanine: all right. there was a substantial amount of blood in her truck and we know clearly, you said it, that it was her blood. but let's talk about the people who may be involved. the last person to speak to brandy was a gentleman by the name of randall richmond. who is he? >> he's a captain for the palm bay fire department. he was her supervisor at one time when she worked for the palm bay fire department and they had been family friends for well over 10 years. >> jeanine: what do we know about that conversation? what did she say to him? >> according to richmond, he said that she told him that she was waiting at a gas station, was going to get some money and not to tell anybody about this and that she would contact him two days later. >> jeanine: she says she's going to get some money. now, let's move on a little bit.

this guy's wife has a public argument with our -- with brandy saying stay away from my husband. and she then texts brandy and says the same thing. what do we know about her? >> that happened several months before she went missing. that was at grand seafood festiv festival in front of several witnesses, she didn't like the way she was acting toward her husband, mr. richmond and confronted her about that. >> jeanine: all right, so are either mr. richmond or his wife a suspect in this case? >> i can't really say they're suspects. i had not concluded that. >> jeanine: let's talk about her husband. apparently, brandy last spoke with her husband about 9:30 when she called the kids at home when she was working.

but he doesn't call looking for her until the next day. what's that about? >> well, he did call later that night about 11:30 or 12:00. he did try to reach her but she was working at the fire station that night. and was assumed that she was going to spend the night there as the lieutenant on duty that night. so it was not uncommon for her to work the whole night. and he didn't start calling until the next morning. when she didn't come home because she had to appear in court and she didn't show up to help take care of the kids. >> jeanine: let's further complicate this. her husband goes to prison for 18 months because of a major marijuana operation he had and he was about to be sentenced for that drug operation -- operation and she was going to testify on his behalf. how does that play into this? >> the night before at the fire station, she had discussed that with several people, even to the

fact that she was discussing what kind of outfit she was going to wear. it was just matter of fact what was going to happen the next day. it was a set thing. he already had pled guilty for the charges. and she was supposed to appear like as a character witness for her husband that day. >> jeanine: all right. so finally, detective, this case has not been called a homicide. do you think that brandy might still be alive? >> myself, i don't think she's still alive. there's too many factors involved. she has two small children that, you know, desperately miss their mother and everyone says she would not leave without her children. >> jeanine: all right. detective, thanks so much for being with us this evening. keep us posted on this investigation and next, our panel will weigh in on this case. stay with us. [ gnome ] enjoying your holiday?

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>> jeanine: we're back with dr. michael baden, joey jackson, bill arenwold and detective steve rogers. all right, guys. her truck was found in 2006 and her clothes and wallet were found in 2007 and her helmet is found, i think, later in 2008 all in different places in different directions different years. what's going on here? >> well, you have, judge, what i believe an individual who was killed, i believe she was killed and the body was placed somewhere else. the evidence is scattered. it's a case of whoever committed this act is blowing the police

off all over the place. >> jeanine: there was a substantial amount of blood in the truck. do you think she was killed in the truck? >> she could have been killed in the truck and the truck was moved and put in the canal. >> jeanine: her body not found in the truck. what does that tell you? >> you may have the killing in the truck. as a result of the killing, then you get the body out of the truck, right? the truck is then ditched and there's evidence all over the place and so i think what is happening here is the detective lieutenant speaks to is you're throwing the police off so they're moving in different directions. >> jeanine: like two years later, i want to throw her helmet somewhere else. >> i think it was done beforehand. it was discovered a couple of years later but i think at the time -- >> a lot of times you can get very good forensic evidence off the body so basically if you kill somebody and you put the body in another vehicle and then move the vehicle away, leaving everything else behind, you're basically depriving the police of a crime -- of a good source of criminal effort. >> jeanine: they do it all the time. >> i think she was not in the truck when it went into the

water. >> jeanine: how do you know that? >> because bodies in trucks stay in the vehicle. they don't go walking out. i think she's not in the car when she goes in. we've seen lots of bodies in water and mostly trucks, mostly accidental. sometimes homicidal and sometimes suicidal. i don't understand the blood in the vehicle because when there's blood in the vehicle underwater, the blood is diluted. i mean, it's not clear in what spot or how that blood was contained so it didn't get diluted. >> jeanine: what does that tell you? > > >> may be establishing some evidence and may not be dead. >> jeanine: she was creating her own homicide scene? auto aleaving her children behind. what period of time does the blood get diluted? >> very quickly. you take blood and put it in a glass of water. >> there was substantial blood found in the vehicle, where did it come from? >> there's theory out there she may be still alive.

this is a mother with children who loved her children. and very rarely find a mother just voluntarily disappearing. >> after that, we have this dispute involved, right, where there's an alleged, perhaps, relationship she's having with somebody else. >> jeanine: with the guy she talks to at 11:06 and says i'm going to get money tomorrow. >> precisely. wife doesn't like that too much. how does that tie them into it? >> my understanding, reading of a lot of material that your people have gotten together is they have not yet declared her legally dead. they could have done that after five years. it's almost six years now. >> doctor, that's just a formality, though. >> and i think she was in a lot of trouble. she was in trouble with her boyfriend. with the wife. with the fact that her husband is going to jail. lost her job. >> she would need help, though. all this evidence is discovered everywhere. there's blood there. there's blood in the canal. >> at this point, the totality of information that the police have point to a homicide and they have to go on an

investigation. >> there's no evidence that there was an illicit relationship between her and the captain from the fire department. >> jeanine: there's no evidence. >> there's no evidence of it. more importantly, look, in the real world, no matter what we want to say, she's dead. >> jeanine: why won't they say she's dead? it's been five years, six years. >> it's a good question. but it's unreasonable to assume that she apparently had a relationship -- a good relationship with her husband, ok. she loved her kids. where did she go to? credit cards haven't been used. body hasn't been found. >> jeanine: her husband is in a big drug operation and goes to prison for 18 months for marijuana. you and i both know that's serious for marijuana. >> absolutely. >> she's about to testify. >> jeanine: she's about to testify and in addition to that, she had originally been charged! >> wasn't anybody concerned as to what she was going to say on the witness stand in there could be any number of motives here. >> it was sentencing, that's the problem. >> jeanine: you don't know. she could have said my husband wasn't responsible.

they were threatening him. >> there's nothing that points to her being alive. that's bottom line. >> jeanine: when they found some of the stuff and i'll agree with dr. baden just with this, i don't believe she's alive, her cell phone wasn't with the stuff neither was her credit card. >> the cell phone hasn't been used. >> jeanine: thank you very much. but her cell phone and her wallet were -- >> credit cards haven't been used. what happened to the body? we assume that somebody killed her, pushed the truck into the water, took the body, put it in another vehicle and drove off some place else. that could have happened. but that takes a lot -- >> i'm sorry, i have to go back to that affair. maybe there's not hardcore evidence to its existence. when you have a woman that's upset. you have text messages that's going back and forth and you have a dispute that's public, there's something wrong there. >> i have a better question. what have the police been doing for six years? >> jeanine: it's interesting, i don't know what they've been doing for six years and i don't know why the sudden interest in this case. what i think is interesting is

the detectives said he hasn't ruled out the alleged -- let's just say the guy and the wife. but they've ruled out the husband. what's that tell you? >> your honor, we've been around long enough to see so many of these cases point right back to the home, the people closest to the victim. maybe the police -- >> her husband. >> but they ruled him out in the beginning. >> maybe that's one of the reasons they haven't solved it yet. >> jeanine: because they ruled him out. you are very suspicious. >> just because the police say they ruled him out that don't mean he's out. >> jeanine: we know that the police don't lie, bill? >> all right. >> jeanine: last word. hit it. >> i believe this is a homicide. i believe it's going to be solved. and the police, i believe, are doing the best they could now to solve that. >> and i say it will remain unsolved unless somebody comes forward and provides information as to what happened. >> jeanine: you think she's alive? >> she may be alive and you've stimulated them to work further on this. >> she's dead, judge. >> jeanine: i agree.

all right. thank you so much to our esteemed panel this evening. love having you around. e-mail us your questions, justice at foxnews.com. that's it for us tonight. thanks for joining us.